NOTE: Seeing God-TV have decided to promote another Todd Bentley “revival”, I thought it might be good to once again discuss the topic of ‘discernment’ in these last days. God-TV have obviously not learned their lesson from the Lakeland fiasco a few years ago where Todd Bentley showed his true colours for all the world to see. Many Charismatic leaders are still wearing egg all over their face for their total lack of discernment during that fiasco. And yet here they are repeating all the same mistakes. I would be interested in your comments on the article below, my friends-

by Andrew Strom

Practical tips for the End-time church.

Some people say that knowing Scripture is the only real key to
discernment that we need. And yes – Scripture is very important –
especially in exposing false doctrine. But it is not only doctrines
or teachings that are the greatest danger today. It is just as likely
to be false `anointings´ or spirits – perhaps even “lying signs and
wonders”. And we may need more than just a good understanding
of Scripture to spot these things. Remember, a lot of the people
caught up in today’s “manifestations mania” actually know their
Bible quite well. And yet they could still be deceived. So what
are the things that can help us avoid deception in similar situations?

Some of the most basic keys to discernment that God has shown
me are as follows:
(1) Know your HOLY GOD intimately. (-When you have seen His
glory, His holiness and His love – by drawing close to Him in prayer –
then you can usually see through any “counterfeits” because you
know the ‘real thing’ so well).
(2) Know your Bible. It is very important to be able to spot teachings
that are either extra-biblical or directly opposed to what the
teach. However, it is important to remember that the Scribes and
Pharisees were extremely learned in the Scriptures and yet they
missed the very Messiah that was prophesied! So knowing the
Bible is important – especially for doctrinal issues – but we need
to be able to “discern the spirits” also.
(3) Be a “lover of truth”. This is very crucial. Are you someone who
will actually stand up for TRUTH – even against the crowd? Or do
you remain silent even when you feel something is very wrong?
(4) Purity of heart and Humility. Many deceptions only appeal to
us because there is something inside us that “wants” to believe
them. They are seductive because of darkness and wrong motives
in our own lives. We must search our hearts and root these out.
(5) The ‘inner witness’ of the Holy Spirit. We must learn to NEVER
over-ride this “still small voice”, as it will save us from deception
again and again. (-More on this below).

Did you know that even an unbeliever can often spot a ‘con-man’
or a snake-oil salesman? They get a kind-of “gut feeling” about
such things. And they are often right! In fact, they are often less
gullible than the Christians! (-Because we are told in the church-
“Do not judge”, ‘Touch not the Lord’s anointed’, “You have a critical
spirit if you do not join in”, etc, etc. This is the very reason why
Christians are often the most gullible and easily deceived). We
need to realize that the Bible says to “Test the spirits” and warns
very strongly that the Last Days will be a time of “seducing spirits”
and great deception. So how can we become more alert to these things?

I believe that God has placed within every human being at least a
measure of an inner “warning system” to protect us from being
easily deceived – just as He has given us all a conscience. It is
something that He has built into every one of us, in His mercy. (I
guess a lot of it is simply `common sense´). However, Christians
should have an even greater advantage in this area, because we
have the “inner witness” of the Holy Spirit, and the `still small
voice´ of the Lord speaking to us every day.

But what I have found again and again with people who give
themselves over to some form of deception is that they often
“override” these alarm bells. They go against their ‘better
judgement’. They ignore the little voice deep inside them that is
telling them that there is something wrong. Christians do this all
the time. That is how they get themselves involved in such foolish

This may all sound very obvious, but I am telling you, this one
basic area alone could wipe out half the deception in the church
right now. If only people would listen to these internal ‘alarm bells’
and act with common sense, half of it would be gone overnight.

The Bible is very clear that the Last Days are a time of such
widespread deception that it would “deceive if possible the very
elect”. It also shows that much of this deception will arise from
WITHIN the church – luring believers with “itching ears”. Do we see
evidence of this kind of thing taking place today? Certainly! In fact,
some of it is at a level that is truly shocking. And yet it is all
accepted as perfectly “normal” by many Christians.

One of the problems, of course, is that those who bring in these
deceptions are ‘trusted’ by the congregation. They have a reputation
and they put across some very convincing-sounding arguments
and surround the whole thing with Biblical terminology. And thus
the deception is harder to spot. (After all, if it were not “deceptive”
then it would not be called ‘deception’!) People see spiritual power
operating and assume that it “must be God”. But this is a very
dangerous assumption to make in these days.

As I said in a previous article, there is also a lot of “peer pressure”
involved as well. For if everyone in the church is getting into
something, then shouldn’t you just ignore those little ‘alarm bells’
and jump right in? This is what is happening all the time in the
church right now. And some preachers are very good at making
people feel that they are ‘hindering the Spirit’ if they do not get

So how do you avoid being deceived in this way?

Very simply, you do not go along to these meetings in a “gullible”
frame of mind. And you do not allow yourself to be carried along
with the crowd. You listen carefully to the preaching and make
sure that it truly is Biblical. Then you watch the ministry happening
down the front of the meeting and discern whether it really is of
God or not. You do not “override” any feelings of unease or any
‘alarm bells’ going off inside you. And you do not allow yourself to
be swayed by ‘peer pressure’. Even if the whole church is getting
into something, it does not mean that you have to. If you do not
feel quite “right” about it then DO NOT GET INVOLVED. If you
need to, make some excuse and get out of there! You do not have
to get involved in things that do not feel spiritually “right” to you.

A lot of people today will go down the front to get something
“imparted” to them by almost every visiting speaker – almost as a
matter of course. I tell you, in today’s climate this can be a very
dangerous thing to do. In fact, some of this ‘impartation’ business
has very flimsy backing in Scripture. Who knows what on earth
these preachers are imparting? And who knows where they picked
it up? I tell you, deceiving spirits are commonplace today, and
I believe they are being imparted to Christians on a large scale.

Let me give you an example. I received the following account from
a preacher in England recently:
“There were about 20 fellow ministers all gathered together in one
large room at a local minister’s house. We were introduced to the
special guest… The next 3 hours were the weirdest three hours I
have ever had to endure, we started listening to [her] testimony
which seemed very powerful, next she spoke of the times that she
meets with the Angel Gabriel and other spiritual beings, next we
moved on to portals between this world and the next and then finally
to how she was going to open up a portal to Heaven in the room that
we were all in. Now things started to happen, really crazy things
and strange noises… As [she] moved around the room ministering
to individual people they were crashing to the ground, bouncing up
and down, running around as if on fire and making all sorts of sounds.
When she came to me she had no prophetic words for me and nothing
happened to me so she just moved on. My Vineyard friend was the
first to crash to the floor. Since that day his church has taken on a
different guise, it is not the same church any more.”

Now, you should know that this ‘guest speaker’ was one of the very
people I mentioned in my “Naming Names” article. I believe that
this is a true account, because it is very similar to what I myself
observed happening under the same ministry. In fact, what I saw
was people making involuntary “bat”-like movements all over the
building and an eery ‘wailing’ noise filling the air. It was truly

Now, it should not surprise us that there are strong deceptions or
“powerful delusions” around today, for this is exactly what the
Scriptures predict will happen. All the way through the New
Testament we are warned of these days – over and over again.

However, one of the problems we have is that God actually does
‘strange and unusual’ things Himself. (-Think of the Book of Acts,
for instance). So we cannot simply throw out everything “unusual”.
Angelic visitations DO HAPPEN. Strange prophetic signs DO
OCCUR. And being a strong Charismatic Christian myself, I expect
to see believers speaking in tongues and moving in the gifts of the
Holy Spirit as well. Now, there is no doubt that many of these
things could be termed ‘unusual’ phenomena. So how do we tell
the difference?

Well, God never goes against His own holy character. Or against
Scripture. And as I often say, we may see Him do ‘unusual’ things
but I believe we need to draw the line at “weird” or ‘ugly’. Some of
the deception that is around right now has a ‘touchy-feely’ New Age
sense about it. Remember that the New Age movement majors on
“inner healing” and unusual spiritual experiences. I do not believe
in ‘guided visualisation’ or anything of that kind. And neither am I
very fond of the writings of Catholic mystics or the like.

However, I have personally found it very helpful to immerse myself
in the writings of past Revivalists and the accounts of great moves
of God. A lot of the men and women involved in these Revivals lived
very close to God and knew Him intimately. They knew His holiness,
they knew His glory, and they knew His love. And it is enormously
helpful to one’s discernment to immerse oneself in these writings,
I have found. I would recommend this to all Christians everywhere.

If you have been touched or involved in any way with manifestations
or experiences that you think may not have been from God, then
I urge you to utterly RENOUNCE (with your mouth, but also from
the depths of your heart and soul) any links or involvement with
that experience or ‘anointing’. Please do not put this off, my friends.
Some of this stuff is extremely dangerous. RENOUNCE IT today.

Blessings from – Andrew Strom ( [email protected] ).

Posted in Articles by Andrew on April 25th, 2013 at 12:57 pm.


490 Replies

  1. I am suprised by the numbers of articles I read on the internet/youtube where people still have discernment, however, I’m not sure they are all christian. Amongst christians, I’d hope by now that some that have been deceived will start to have their eyes opened, but I don’t see much or any of this happening. All we can do is pray that the Lord does not send us a strong delusion and thank God every day for our spirit of discernment, and pray others have there eyes opened.

  2. I love 1 and 3 of your 5 keys above – in fact a love of the truth should be number 2 and after a love of the Lord, should be thee most important thing in the whole world.

  3. I really appreciate this article. It seems so obvious that we are in the last days before our blessed Savior’s return, and our awareness to deception must be heightened.. Thanks to Andrew’s article I will pursue a higher level for myself, especially in my role as a home group leader.

  4. John Gardiner Apr 25th 2013

    Hi Andrew – because we in South Africa have been “blessed” by a visit from TB, I will be teaching on discernment this Sunday. This is my take on the common arguments against discernment (sorry for the length!). Regards, John

    The common arguments against discernment:
    Don’t judge.
    What’s always used are Jesus’ words in Matthew 7:1-2 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged.”
    But there’s a world of difference between being judgemental and critical, especially of other people’s sin and their personal lives, and discerning the things which effect the church. There are numerous scriptures that urge us to judge and discern things within the body of Christ.
    Jesus says by their fruit you will know them, and unfortunately we do sometimes need to examine the fruit of people’s personal lives when that person’s sin has an effect upon their ministry and is going to impact the lives of others.

    But it works — something’s happening!
    The problem with every single thing in the occult and the new age is that they work! Witchcraft works, glassy-glassy works, homeopathy works, acupuncture works. If they didn’t work no one would ever do them! The problem is they do work, and that’s what fascinates people and hooks them into deception.
    It’s the same with “Christian stuff” — don’t ever judge a thing by whether or not it works, or it’s supernatural. 2 Thessalonians 2:9 “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders.”
    I know God heals. I believe most Christians will have at some time experienced God’s supernatural healing — but He doesn’t need our help through exaggeration and even lying about healings and miracles — ESPECIALLY when the motivation for that is to vindicate my ministry and line my own pockets

    Don’t be divisive, and don’t grieve the Spirit
    Have you ever stopped to think that it grieves the Holy Spirit even more to NOT discern but simply embrace everything?

    God offends the mind to reveal the heart.
    This is really like a demonic command to override the still, small voice of the Spirit. So you can have a situation where everything inside of you is saying something’s wrong here (many people’s instant reaction to Bentley!) — but the argument here is that this is simply God offending your mind to reveal your heart — i.e. you have the heart of a Pharisee. Which leads us to…

    You’re just being a Pharisee or you’ve got a religious spirit.
    Yes, we are pharisaical when we gloat over the personal sins of others — but we are never pharisaical when we take teachings and occurrences that profoundly affect the body of Christ and measure them against scripture — especially New Testament scripture. You’re never going to find Todd Bentley’s beautiful 22-yr-old female angel in scripture!

    Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
    This implies that a mixture is fine, and you can just go along with the bits you sort of agree with, as long as you don’t embrace the weird bits. But clearly throughout scripture, mixture is never tolerated.

    Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater
    Meaning there may be something good in the midst of all this and we’re scared of missing it. That sounds sort of spiritual — but it’s a ridiculous statement. The truth is, if the baby is messing in the bath you take him out and wipe him off!

    The gifts are without repentance.
    In other words you can have someone living in sin, but still operating in a supernatural gift he got from God years ago — and you can go to that person’s meeting and benefit from that gift.
    It’s very flakey theology, because Jesus said you will know false prophets by their fruit — so their personal lives do actually matter!
    Call me an old-fashioned Pharisee if you like, but I’d rather not have hands laid on me by a drunken adulterer in the hope that His gift is without repentance!
    I believe it’s a lot easier than we think for someone to start out with a gift from God, then through pride and independence and sin — start slipping into a counterfeit. I don’t believe someone like William Branham was still operating in any God-given gift by the end of his very troubled life.

    You’ve got to try it for yourself before making a judgement .
    As someone once said, you don’t have to first try suicide to know it’s wrong.

  5. Barry Schmidt Apr 25th 2013

    Great article! All of the mentioned safeguards are significant helps in helping us discern the true from the false “anointings” or spirits.

    For me it’s a simple matter of praying the Lord’s Prayer daily which includes “and deliver me from the evil one”

    “Unless The Lord watches over the house they that watch – watch in vain”

    But when Jesus watches over me- although He may allow me to fall prey to false spirits for a season to test me, expose some selfish motives in me or to immunize me and allow me to taste the poison so I can become wiser and more helpful to the sheep- when JESUS WATCHES OVER ME- no weapon formed against me shall prosper.

    Motive is always huge when I am deceived for a season – “These teachers appeal to your fleshly appetites”- for worldly ambition, glory, honor, status etc.

    Also God has also allowed me to be deceived because I was rejecting the obvious truth of the gospel of grace- ( I was wanting to justify myself rather than simply accepting the simple gospel of salvation by faith alone) . This has always led to my being deceived and drawn into false anointings . They promised me freedom and power by self effort when God offers His Spirit and power by believing the gospel plus nothing.

    I have tasted the poison. IT POISONS! DON’T DRINK THAT!!!!

  6. Kathie Apr 25th 2013

    Thank you for this article. I was one who was caught up in chasing the anointing, following the “chosen ones” who imparted such anointings and manifestations. Morning Star, I Hop, conference after conference, anointed speaker, teacher, prophet, after another until finally ….Lakeland. ‘At home, laying hands on my computer begging for the transferable anointing, the Lord spoke ….”this is NOT my Spirit!” I immediately repented to God, then to my husband and children who had to endure the endless hours of Todd in our home on our computer. Then I repented to my pastor and others at church as I was a worship leader there and was responsible for leading so many others down the same path as I had taken. I warned as many as would listen, was called a pharisee, told not to speak against God’s anointed, etc. I have had to be delivered of the kundalini and who knows what else. I spent nearly 20 years chasing what I thought was God and in one instant the scales fell off my eyes. I don’t know why I didn’t see it all before. But, I know now.

  7. There is much need for discernment in these last days. And even some of the more caustic sites sometimes provide some pertinent information. But the greatest liability in the discerment community is the lack of desire to discern ourselves as well. If, like Abram, we spend all our energies chasing the birds we have left the sacrifice itself.

  8. Barry Schmidt Apr 25th 2013

    I should mention a little of how false spirits poisoned me for a season. I had a very low self esteem ( or rather a very low Christ esteem). These people offered me “gifts, power, inclusion, impartation, and to become ‘somebody'”
    “they appeal to my fleshly lusts”
    My OWN lust drew me in to “drink” of that false Jesus, false gospel and false spirit.
    And drink I did! I had so much of this spirit I could simply look at people and they would fall on the floor and begin to convulse and shake violently!

    But here was the poisoning effects. Instead of the “Spirit of love, power and sound mind” I received a spirit of lust, weakness and fearful mind through the laying on of hands of virtually all of these travelling road show religion “evangelists, prophets and apostles.”
    God said to me, “Barry is it POWER ( meat/quail) you want? THEN POWER YOU WILL EAT UNTIL IT ROTS IN YOUR MOUTH!!!”

    The fear intensified so much I could not even get out of bed.
    Then I cried out unto The Lord for a period of of almost a year.
    Then I had a dream ( which I won’t give details of ) which showed me all this prophetic and apostolic movement was a false movement entirely. I woke up, renounced it, renounced my sin of ambition, renounced the spirits I was infected with) and I had peace again for the first time in 13 years!!!
    That morning God said to me, ” Look up a man named Andrew Strom on the Internet. He will confirm what has happened to you. i have put you in the prison of fear until iron entered your soul. And when you have returned – STRENGTHEN YOUR BROTHERS!!”

  9. Robert Apr 25th 2013

    I was in South Africa visiting family when this latest ‘thing’ started. I saw an article on Facebook where TB showed pictures of ‘diamonds’ and mentioned the falling ‘gold flakes’. One of the diamonds would have been worth about £10,000,000 if real. Later in the article he said how poor the ministry was and needed offerings from the ‘saints’. I commented saying, we had seen all this before at Lakeland, where all the diamonds, healings, resurrections etc were shown to be false. This just resulted in loads of abuse from his followers saying I was doing the devils work and I would be cursed.
    I must admit I don’t like God Tv which is full of false teachers. But the Alec’s showing this TB fiasco every night for 4 hours is just amazing. They have no discernment whatsoever and are just after a quick buck. The sooner it ends the better!!

  10. I will say that I have learned quite some time ago that “God-TV, God-Tube” and a host of other “God” named entities, are not necessarily speaking for or of the God of the Scriptures.

  11. Oh, Bravo, John G! Thank you for mentioning that spiritual signs do not prove that a message is from God.

    A visiting “healing evangelist” came to our city, and a friend encouraged me to hear him with her. So we went, and it appeared there were some genuine healings. This made most of the crowd absolutely believe whatever he said — because “only God can do creative miracles! Right?” Well, what the guy SAID was appalling and unbiblical. But he had these people hanging on his every word.

    Signs point to a message. Listen closely to the message AND the direction your heart is being tugged by the words. It’s hard to ignore signs, especially if they are noisy and attention-getting. But you have to in order to discern the source.

  12. TB is a false prophet and a false teacher…period.
    Ministry is good money for charismatic story tellers and good actors and good liars.

    Thanks for the five discernments. I like them a lot.

    God has called Andrew to expose these liars. God be with you Andrew.

  13. Marc Wildman Apr 25th 2013


    I think it’s a great idea in these end times to begin to educate the Body as too what is and what is not counterfeit. Many of the past Revivals have been falsely initiated as well as much of the prophetic movements we see the same thing happening.

    While sometimes these warnings may be perceived as a negative approach, we only have to look over the past twenty years or more to see the mountains of deception that have been passed off as truth(s).

    Matthew 24:24: “For false Messiahs will arise and Prophets of lies, and they will give great signs so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” This scripture alone should motivate us to be become truth-seekers

    God will not be mocked and His words are the same yesterday today and forever. Another red flag is when we see individuals continually adding and taking away from the Holy scriptures. One of the most alluring deceptions we have encountered is the trips in and out of heaven. There are many distractions being offered, or enticements that in many cases, have no scriptural (proof or even evidence) foundation or basis.

    2 Timothy 4: 3-4:(says it all) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.


  14. OneBody Apr 25th 2013

    DIVINATION: An imitation of the Divine. – John Bevere’s book,

    Divination is an imitation of the Divine, void of the essence of the Divine (holiness).

  15. Yep, another South African (among many) who is not fooled by the occultic phenomena etc associated with TB and his ‘revivals.’ In over 45 years of ministry I have only tasted genuine moves of the Spirit, according to the Bible and the History of Revivals and the inner witness of the Spirit, half a dozen times?
    In any case, once you’ve tasted of Jesus Christ as revealed in the Gospels especially (we have neglected these, I believe!), nothing else will satisfy! “Take the world, but give me Jesus…”

  16. Lori T Apr 25th 2013

    While I agree with Andrew on renouncing any involvement with such activities, I would also add the necessity of commanding any spirits that came in through such involvement to leave you in Jesus name.

  17. It seems that there is a lack of true Discipleship in the church these days. Too many settle at being a Christian but how can one claim to be a Christian without first being a disciple? The. commission was and still is to make disciples of all nations. Jesus never commanded to make Christians. Once Born Again, the depths of Proverbs 1 and 2 should be sought rather than all those manifestations that makes one feel good.

  18. Col. 2:18 comes to mind: ” Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments grows with the increase that is from God”

    I agree completely Andrew. It is difficult in our day to even be “charismatic” in belief, as I believe that the vast majority of what we are seeing is false. I still love the moving of God’s Spirit and the gifts, but rarely see the real thing, certainly in most of the usual venues. One concern I have had that seems to come out of the Charismatic Movement morse so, is the reliance people have on personal prayer ministry. When I first came to Jesus in the 1974, we did attend a Pentecostal church. We would go to the altar or into the prayer room and meet with God alone, when we felt God w speaking to our hearts, and we alone did business with God. I am not saying there is no place for personal prayer ministry as it is biblical, but we have taken it to incredible extremes,and much of the resulting “words” and prayer ministry are highly suspect. We have lost our ability to meet with God alone and hear His voice and let Him deal with us…..we look for the hot new prophetic voice among us instead! We must ” Prove all things, and hold fast that which is good” in our day more than ever. That is one of my husbands favourite verses, and certainly something to ponder in our day.

  19. a lot of great comments here. Praise God that His Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth and remind us of What Jesus taught.

    The Lord is faithful to reveal what is of Him and what is not..As Andrew correctly pointed out,if we ourselves maintain a pure heart before God thru responding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit,if we confess our sins,if we turn from them ,if we crucify our flesh daily and deny ourselves…if we do these things,NOT FROM LEGALISM,BUT FROM RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD,IMTIMATE HONEST HUMBLE RELATIONSHIP, He is faithful and will guide us away from what is false and towards himself….Lord in the name of Jesus,I ask that you expose and reveal what is false to your bride….Keep us in the truth,,,thy word is truth…

    is it any wonder that Paul told us to stick with the Apostles teachings…..the original Apostles teaching is what God used and recorded as scripture…why on earth when we haven’t even learned to love our neighbor as ourselves,,,do we think we need new revelation and manifestations…why are we not content with what the Lord has already said and done and is doing by his Holy Spirit…the answer I believe lies in the same place as the children of Israel before they made the golden calf…they said.,” we do not know what has happened to Moses” the charismatic church has been duped into lusting for power and signs..and in the U.S. since theyarent seeing the results they want,,,they have decided to build their own Golden Calf of false manifestations…it is a tragedy…the Remnant needs to be crying out to God on their behalf

  20. Very important article dear brother for the saints in the Lord. There are end-time deceptions coming worse then we can imagine and they have already begun.

  21. Daniel Malloy Apr 25th 2013

    In Matthew 22:29 Jesus says your are in ERROR because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. Here our Lord teaches us that one of the ways we fall into error is our lack of knowledge of Scripture, but also our lack of knowledge of the power of God.

    We must know the Scripture and the power of God to prevent being in error. If we know TRUE manifestations of the power of God then we will not be mislead by counterfeits.

    In Matt 7:22-23 The ones who performed counterfeit miracles try to use this as a passport into heaven and Jesus says, I never knew you! Chilling. Does Jesus know you? Are you absolutely sure that the Lord has saved you, sanctified you and has a place in heaven prepared for you? Go in peace.

  22. Great article. I have encountered this type of werd manifestations in the past, and some are still involved in this. They did not heed my warnings, or that of others. It was exciting at the time, but now they wonder why certain things are happening to them. Many Christians are caught up in these false teachings and experiences due to not learning God’s word. Rather than apply themselves to searching and learning the Scriptures, they would rather sit back and be told what to believe. We really need to know God’s word!

  23. Good teaching, Andrew. We need to have a strong intimate relationshio with Yeshua Hamashiach, Jesus the Christ and be fillled with Holy Spirit wisdom and divine communication to stay clear of today’s overwhelming deception. Most times we are lacking in one of those areas and can be subtly or obviously tricked by the enemy. What you feed is what will grow strong. Feed from less of the world and more of the Spirit of Christ.

  24. Johan Laubser Apr 25th 2013

    Hi Andrew
    You will recall that I wrote to you via e-mail from Louis Trichardt,South Africa a few weeks ago. What your concerns are here is exactly what I tried to bring accross. I do agree on all what you have said on this thread, however, I do not think it is scriptural to leave the church you are in because one cannot agree with what is happening there. This is the advice you gave me. I think one has to be bold in the Lord with your before mentioned atributes and confront this EVIL head on in the church, with leadership and members as well. If we can decern the deception ,then I think we should warn those dear to us in the church. I am not suggesting to go around and cause devision, but to inform people in a Godly way, lead by the Spirit.
    It is sad to see lovely people of God being mislead like this. People are sincere, but many “teachers” are there only for their own gain. My heart hurts to be pushed aside by those in church who are deceived by false teaching, but even worse, my heart brakes for those going astray believing they are sound. May HE grant us wisdom and courage to be obedient through the Spirit and not conform to the ideology of the masses.
    God bless,

  25. I am in agreement, without it both will fall by the wayside. It is very rampant as the Spirit Reveals, it is a rapid deathly infection spreading like wildfire. It did not stop with Jim Jones and the majority of his deceived clan. There is a growing majority that will ride any bus that stops, as long as they can have the best seat, get a pat on the back, get in the program. Jesus warned us of these things and the time they would increase. If in doubt, just have a little talk with Him, He will be glad that you inquired about the prophecy.

  26. David Noah Taylor Apr 25th 2013

    For God’s sake read the scripture. The most potent revelation on not being decieved is found in Ephesians chapter 4. If people are truly being the body of Christ and they have learned the basic teaching of speaking the truth in love to each other they will know what is a bunch of hogwash and what is from their Father. The church…. not individuals is the piller and support of the truth. Come together in Christ …. let your stupid individual lives go and enter the corporte Life of Christ and God almighty Himself will protect you from darkness.

  27. Daniel Malloy Apr 25th 2013


    In the above article you state that “I believe God has giving every human being an “inner warning system” to prevent us from being deceived. This is not Biblical, God tells us in Romans 7:18 that there is no good in me, that is in my flesh. In Jeremiah 17:9 God tells us the human heart is deceitful above all things. To say God has given human beings an “inner warning system” to prevent deception is itself deception.

  28. There are two roads…both marked ‘this way to heaven’. One is broad, with many followers, and one is narrow with only a few travelers. I have a ‘general’ guideline in that; when I see a crowd going one way…I usually take the other. Rarely ‘follow the flock’ because I know the majority will be deceived. Yes absolutely, the 5 steps of discernmnt are also required, being sensitive to the Holy Spirit a must. “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God.

  29. I am reading your stories here and do not want to be unchristian, but I cannot understand why if you are born-again, you do not have discernment, and could be in darkness for 13 or even 20 years. The Lord gave me discernment from day one, although I do not know if it’s also a personality thing. I do not and never have succumbed to peer pressure, so do not listen to people, but to the Spirit as He moves in me. The Lord even gave me discernment BEFORE I was a Christian. I used to watch the God channel in the mid/late 1990s (didn’t become born again until 2000) and I “knew” in my spirit even then (considering I’d been into the occult) that Benny Hinn et al had ‘something wrong with them’. When I first became a christian, I told pastors everywhere about my thoughts, and e.g. elders to not stock the books of such authors at church, but no one wanted to know. This leads me to ask, why is it that pastors and elders are in the roles they are – surely elders need discernment – who chooses these people:?

  30. Here’s something that we need to understand: Jesus didn’t say that we would notice the false prophets by their teaching. He said, in Matthew 7 that we would know them by their FRUIT …

    – Do their spouses and children seem happy and at peace?
    – Do they live by a godly standard?
    – Do the people who follow their ministry exhibit a godly standard?
    – Do their prophecies come true and do they bring people back to God in repentance?


    Blessings …

    Thank you bro.Strom for that precious counsel.
    Here’s more, – like a “Silver Bullet” !
    2Cor. 2:10b,11,12
    . . . . .”because they received not the love of the truth (My Holy Name) ,
    that they might be saved.
    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
    should believe a lie:
    That they all might be damned . . . .”
    Forfeiture and Confiscation are very Scriptural and very real.

  32. Kab Lauj Apr 25th 2013

    Thanks for the awesome article Andrew!

    Stand on His Word (SOWHIAM) –The pastor calls himself a prophet and apostle who is indeed a False prophet & apostle, teaches False Doctrine, and total ‘Touchy-Feeling’ New-Age ministry.

    The Lord commands us to “Test the spirits” (1 John 4). We will know them by the “Fruit of the Spirit” as He tells us in Galatians 5:22-23 (not what they produce because both good and evil can produce fruit). I tested the pastor and his wife, and neither one bear fruit of the Spirit. Thankful He got me out of the ministry fast!

    Blessings in Christ Jesus 🙂

  33. Zululander Apr 25th 2013

    Johan you have a point but I think whether you leave or stay depends on your calling & what God is doing in your life. I don’t think anyone can give you the correct advise for you.
    Daniel read Prov 20:27. Some scholars say this is where the conscience is…..

    David you have an excellent point on the church…body….etc. It’s Gods plan A for His children, like it or not. A body with ministries in a locality discipling etc

    Excellent article Andrew, I am surprised you didn’t mention the 2 places where scripture mentions discernment. 1Cor 2 and Heb 5….” reason of use have had senses exercised to discern”.
    No place for teaching those verses here

    Your 4th point is probably our biggest problem. Bad teaching brings false expectations & people chase after their expectations & get deceived.
    Read Ezek14:1.-4.

  34. Tilman Apr 25th 2013

    I widely agree with your article, Andrew, yet I think revealing false prophets isn’t that difficult if you are really firm in scripture. Actually, it begins with the teaching. I don’t need to see the miracles of a false prophet like Todd Bentley – it is enough to hear him talk. There is so much unbiblical, even demonic teaching – you can’t believe that rubbish if you really have received the Holy Spirit. The spirit loves to expose these false powers – since he is the spirit of truth.

    In January we had Todd Bentley here in Europe and it was the same road show as before, but guess what: it was a happening to separate true from false believers. Actually we had some struggle over the Bentley-Show and what happened was that people I had been thinking of for years that they are Christians, turned out to be false believers. On my oppinion God allows such deception to make it very clear who is a true bible believing believer and who is not. We will be judged by the words of the LORD and it matters whether we do believe them or not:

    “Whoever rejects me and does not accept my message, has one who will judge him. The WORD I HAVE SPOKEN WILL JUDGE HIM” (John 12:48).

    If you have received the Spirit you can’t be deceived. That’s what I am convinced of. Todd Bentley makes a roadshow out of his miracles, but right from the beginning miracles always served to restore the wholeness of people. There may be a little or even no difference in the outer appearance, but it’s a big difference from a spritual standpoint. Whether a miracle is happening to restore the wholeness of people or is just cheap sensationalism – the difference is huge. The latter produces no faith, the first one produces people with hearts full of gratefulness and worship. That’s what only God can do and this is the biggest miracle!

  35. Where did Christ go to worship and receive annointing? Did He seek it from gatherings of men? No…He went to be alone with His Father. Almighty God is the only confirmer of Truth, and worship of Him should be in the heart, from the heart. When you receive from God the blessings, than you go to your fellow man and share them…man to man in your community…where knowledge of the situations are evident, than there will be no fraud.

    Are we not to imitate Jesus Christ?

    I cannot recall one time in scripture where He acted like a lunatic. The only expression of emotions we saw from Him were tears, and sometimes anger.

    One should never seek their confirmation from the crowds of men, like rock stars do on a stage, like their audiences do amongst each other in a mad frenzy of emotional worship that borders on sexual frenzy towards their idol.

    God is Holy, Wise, and above the ways of man. God is LOVE in action, person to person, quietly, without fanfare.

    Look back through history to see how those who sacrificed humans to their idols got worked up. See how satan likes to be worshiped…with lust and frenzy and emotion, each worshipper trying to out do with crazy motions or louder screams the ones next to him….drawing attention to themselves. They do not sacrifice the flesh at these gatherings, but how many are sacrificing their souls to something that is not godly? How many unknowingly because they are worshipping the human factor that arosed them at these services, are asking to be possessed???

    Show me a gathering where the masses stand quietly with uplifted arms and tears streaming down their faces, not uttering a sound, not desireing a thing, except that their LORD returns and His Will be done…. and that is where God will be. Dignified, repentent souls, full of love unbearable that brings tears. That is a movement of the Holy Spirit.

    Consider how each of Jesus Christ’s miracles were performed. Did He require the crowd around Him to be roused up like a mob at a concert? Did He require the one receiving the miracle to be roused up to a state of fainting or lunacy? You know the answer…quietly with dignity, and who knows how many miracles He performed that were done in secret. All that was required was FAITH..and God knows your faith, it does not have to be proclaimed but once with the lips…in front of others..so that God knows you are not ashamed of Him, and that you fear Him more than you fear mankind.

    The entire reason that Jesus came to us was so that we would look towards Him for our confirmation, rather than mankind. Mankind is not and has not, and will not be doing so well in the future left to his own devices. We need to take our eyes off of mankind and put them on Jesus Christ for our examples….and seek what is eternal…and not the lust, crowd frenzy that is not lasting….when we are not being propped up by other humans and our emotions.

  36. We live in a world that desperately needs Jesus Christ. Depression is quickly becoming the leading illness world wide and suicide rates continue to rise. Antidepressant drugs have become the second most prescribed drug in the US and Americans are shelling out 10 billion dollars each year for these drugs. There are many in the world today who are treating the gospel like an antidepressant medication. This gospel will make us temporarily feel good and will cater to our superficial worldly needs. However, it fails to address the real issue of sin and when trials come into our lives, this medicated gospel will provide no relief. The true gospel of Jesus Christ will provide everlasting relief and will give us true peace. This peace is incomprehensible to the world, but to true believers in Jesus Christ it is our hope and blessed assurance.

  37. Oh No not Todd Bentley tear apart time again,
    I seem to recall these words …let them grow together until harvest
    “Gently Bentley” and don’t forget” Trendy Wendy ” ( Alec)

  38. Testing

  39. This word from Andrew is for our times. Every bad spirit that would try to fool us is out there now trying to fool us.

    I’ve had limited christian words given to me in my life, but one that had to be a true Holy Spirit word was when a kind elderly pastor came to our local church. He was invited, having been a long-time friend of our struggling little church. This man of God had a gift of prophetic discernment. He wasn’t revered, or idol-worshipped like some ‘prophetic ministers’, he was a grace-filled humble humble man. He didn’t speak in a big voice or wear expensive suit; he was a retiree and walked with a bent back..

    After a sermon, he invited the 20 or so congregants to the front of the altar and prayed for each one of us. For some, he gave a Word from the Lord. My turn came, and because I had been lied to much of my whole life (dysfunctions at home) I had a very hard time to trust anybody. However, this man spoke to my heart. I didn’t know him ever and he didn’t know a thing about me. He spoke to me to say that the Holy Spirit remembered my youth, and was aware of the torment that I suffered, and wanted to repair my heart.

    No other person, (unless I had told them) could know those were the exact expressions that I needed to hear from a loving heavenly Father. My Father told me he knew of the torment that I had gone through. And I did have torment and couldn’t express it to christian friends, associates or anyone. So, I knew this had to be from the Lord.

    Other times, where churches sometimes have people who give “words” loosely, have left me with a nagging feeling that it wasn’t quite right. Many of these “words” were generic. They could be applied to anyone. For example, I once, at an altar call, received a word by a sister praying for us, that the Lord was giving me a wrapped present, and inside it was a smaller present (or gift) and inside it, and so on and so on. And she left it at that; so my imagination was trying to figure out what that meant.

    After returning home, that word did not edify me, as I didn’t have a clue as to what it would mean. And, at that time my husband and I were having financial difficulty. But still, it did not edify my soul. I wanted so much more and wanted the Lord to help me pour out my complaint before Him, and not just about finances, but in every avenue of our lives.

    We’ve been hit on all sides by false spiritual words, and the words that promise prosperity and carnal things and gifts and rewards and corruptible things should come as no surprise that they are not from God.

    He’s coming soon, and He wants us to restore our hearts, and lay all our hurts, angers, pasts, and heart and soul to Him, so He can prepare us when He arrives. That’s what I believe.

  40. I dont find much wrong with the article and its practical suggestions,the principles are good.What I have a problem with is the NOTE that precedes it.Just throwing out the name of Todd Bentley or anyone with inuendo,assumption and presumption as if they were the epitome of what this article is warning about,without any clarification,in the spirit ,of the judgment that has been passed here,is of the flesh,and not of the spirit!
    Two scriptures come to mind,”Touch NOT mine anointed and do my prophets no harm.”Ps.105:15 and “For we dare not make ourselves of the number,or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves;but they measuring themselves by themselves,and comparing themselves among themselves are not wise.”2 Cor.10:12.
    We happen to know Dave Bentley,Todd’s father and what really went on in the past.Regardless of Todd’s past sin or yours or mine,God deals with it and to the truly repentant,like King David,He raises them up again!David the liar,murderer and adulterer ended up one of God’s greatest of all!David would not come against God’s anointed,King Saul when it was obvious what was happening,did he?Who are you to discount Todd Bentley because of what you think of his past?’JUDGE NOT according to appearance but JUDGE righteous judgment.”John 7:24.Did not the Pharisees judge by appearance?
    I have watched some of the programs on God tv and am thrilled with the miracles and healings that God is doing in South Africa and worldwide thru the telecast..I see a man who “knows his God intimately”,a man who” knows his bible” and speaks the word in the meetings,a man “who loves the truth”and speaks it and a man of humility and pureness of heart all of which gives me an inner witness in the Holy Spirit!Most of the people there are east indian and laid back so there is no hype such as can be seen in the US at times.I have seen 4 deaf mutes in a row healed,6 children in a row healed of deafness,blind eyes opened,A diagnosed death in utero in England born alive(testimony),a withered hand in a child healed etc.There is no cheap sensationalism here but a valid move of God,solidly based on the word of God and the fruit of the spirit..As far as the devil is concerned,he always shows up somewhere when God is at work.After all,he was at the last supper,so I’m, sure he will show up and the pharisees can pounce on it to discount all of it.
    Please be careful and be warned of what you come against and why you do it.

  41. Just recently, I was scouring the internet to find christian music sites, so I could be inspired and worship. I got to a few sites with soul-filled worship that touched my soul.

    Then, I kind of steered into other ‘healing ministries’ sites. Years ago, I was a follower of men’s ministries and have grown a bit and now do not follow ‘men’, but try to put my eyes on Jesus only. However, I happened upon this site of a healing ministry that I used to revere. I clicked onto the worship music where this minister sang. There was something different about it than the previous worship sites I was on. This healing minister’s tone and ways and dominance seemed to have more of an affect of something other than the Holy Spirit. I know God is holy. And I can’t put my finger on what this “minister” was doing wrong, but the voice, the music, the worship in the video seemed compelling, dramatic and powerful, but it felt like the “man” was in total control of the presentation, and that the Holy Spirit did his bidding, instead of the other way around. When I watched this, I felt that a man was trying to control our Holy God’s Spirit. And whatever sense of spirital power that emanated from that video was real, but I questioned if it was truly God’s power. The worship didn’t leave me feeling a true love for Jesus. The worship seemed like it was bowing to another source. It gave me a scary feeling to think I was engaging with the worship and felt the tingles, yet didn’t feel right about something.

    I’ll stick to humble people’s worship that give ALL glory to Jesus, not just by their words, but by their actions. Huge ministries that spend millions of dollars will eventually become caught up in the immensity of the power they feel. Satan wants them to enjoy that power. And there’s a fine fine line where that minister is standing next to, where he could be tempted to cross.

    I think a word for today is where there is less fanfare, there will be more of Jesus.

  42. Thank you for this wonderful article Andrew!!!
    How does a man become wise? The first step is to trust and reverence the Lord. Prov. 1 7-9.
    Every young man who listens to me and obeys my instructions will be given wisdom and good sense. Prov 2:1
    When I was searching for wisdom, the Holy Spirit led me to this question. “Lord Jesus, If I am in error in any way, show me.” Some time later, someone told me about Andrew Strom and the Kundalini spirit. Where was I??? Under the false teaching for 25 years. Drunken in the Spirit, Holy laughter, Visualization. Even if I didn’t participate in most of the false teaching, I was still connected to it. I went to churches that believed in it. Through Andrew’s book, I was set free and delivered. Praise God!!!
    God opened my eyes because I asked Him too. God tells us to ask…Matthew 7:9 – Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone. Ask Him… Ask, Seek, Knock.
    Also, research what you have been told.
    Always go to God’s word when you are in doubt.
    For instance, The Harlem Shake. Not only has this become one of the most popular dances in the U.S, but a number of pastors are promoting it. What do the words Con Los Terroristas mean in the Harlem Shake?? The answer : With the Terrorists. And we are now teaching this unholy dance in the churches?????
    Matthew 24:4 – Watch out that no one deceives you.
    Prov. 4:7 – Getting WISDOM is the most important thing you can do.
    No One Can Stand Against The Almighty God.

  43. carolyn Apr 25th 2013

    RIGHT ON !!!! Thanks!!

  44. carolyn Apr 25th 2013

    Repenting and renouncing Saints; get it done! 🙂

  45. Linda Spagnola Apr 25th 2013

    Thank you, Andrew!
    I quit TV a decade ago, so do not even know what God TV is: sounds ungodly at first blush. I think your article on 5 points of discernment is very needful in these times. A more succinct version of what you said would be: If a so called revival promotes anything other than Christ – anything – (whether it be healing, a person or whatever), it is not of God.

  46. Sorry, another post here. But this topic has me thinking about all the different parts of the Body of Christ I attended during my long search. I’ve been through it all and conclude that men who need to have huge followings are kidding themselves. And those who follow them are kidding themselves too.

    I believe that many of the past efforts of pastors, evangelists and those who had a true heart for the Lord will yield a good harvest. But these past few decades, something has cracked. Mega churches and mega ministries today could be dangerous. Some are trying to spellbind people. They’ve crossed the line from genuine men of God to Super Christian Heroes. I’m surprised they don’t wear red capes. They want to be recognized, they have logos on their shirts, they have their own letterhead, and bodyguards and live like Kings and Queens. Have we had enough yet? Are we so brainwashed in today’s culture that these spectacular ministries don’t offend us? If these ministries had existed for Jesus while he walked on earth, he would have had none of it. The mega/celebrated/narcissistic/mega-wealthy/supernatural manifestation/crusade/power-thirsty/attention addictive/praise-needy men who shower themselves with groupies and adoring masses and treat the sick and oppressed who come to them like meat have fallen into delusion. It’s a mockery, to watch a blood-bought servant of God who yells and jerks people around on a public stage to get the most shock and awe entertainment for his hungry sensationalistic crowds.

    When do christians feel enough is enough?

  47. Great article, Andrew! Thanks. Been down that road myself. I was preserved from error because I’d been taught the truth from childhood in a stable mainline church where the Word of God was taught in its truth, beauty, purity and simplicity. I already had the Holy Spirit. It was He who had brought me to Christ. I was not gullbile,.I had discernment. My fifth grader had better discern-ment than most of the adults at that church. Being a kid, he was honest and they were willfully blind. To my credit, I never suspended critical judgment although I was often accused of having a spirit of rebellion or some such thing. I knew better because I knew my own heart. I believe the Lord let me see the counterfeit so I’d appreciate what was real. My advice is this: don’t ever let anybody take you by surprise and push you over at the altar, and if they’re serving Kool-Aid don’t take any. Follow after truth. Jesus said we’d know the truth and it would make us free. His Word is Truth. Learn it. And don’t add to it or put your own spin on it. “Experience” is not a valid basis for sound doctrine.

  48. Hi everyone,
    I have been part of this scene for the last 9 years. I followed Todd, and it led me down a road of deception. I found myself following a false spirit that I thought was the Holy Spirit. I have repented and renounced everything I can think of. I’ve thrown thousands if dollars worth of music and books in the trash. We took a break from our church because our pastor is involved with this move. We were in leadership there and people keep calling us asking if we are offended are upset. They are encouraging us not to isolate ourselves. I am honestly afraid if going back and getting that false spirit on me. People come up to you and hug you and lay hands on you. I want to wear a sign that states , “please don’t touch me”. My husband and I are seeking The Lord about going back to church. The problem is there isn’t really any good bible believing churches around here. We have been hesitant about speaking against this movement because people will not be happy. Is it our place to try if our pastor is under the covering of these ministers? We stopped tithing too. It’s good to read this article because it brings confirmation to those that are in limbo like us. I’m am not 100 percent convinced that this is true, it feels like a bad dream. Thank you for all of your comments..

  49. Merrill Apr 25th 2013

    A fool repeats his folly…

  50. I definitely think its a good thing that you stopped tithing Daisy, the Lord will lead you as to how to use the money He gives your husband and yourself for His Glory through His Holy Spirit within you – throw off the guilt, it is false – He, the Holy Spirit, will lead you… 🙂

  51. Thank you Andrew Horton(; i really appreciate your encouragement. I feel alone right now. I forgot to mention that this spirit possibly led me to intense fear and anxiety where the doctor put me on anti anxiety medications that I had to wean myself off of which was pure hell. I still struggle sleeping at night, My body twitches at night and wakes me up. This almost destroyed my marriage and my nursing career. I wasn’t able to be a good mother to my two toddlers. I’m so angry and it feels good to express this today.. My heart just breaks over this. Some days I just cry and moan in intercession.

  52. OneBody Apr 25th 2013

    Todd Bentley considered anything outside his teachings to be outdated teachings taught by outdated Believers. When his teaching crept into our church; we were leadership; ”’required”’ to bend the knee, follow and produce the fruit of this belief system. We couldn’t support them in any way. We were certainly and quickly labled, the ‘OLD ORDER brethren’ refereed to in the excerpt from Bentley’s book below. I can’t search exactly which book at this time. I believe it was, ‘Journey Into The Miraculous’. I am SO glad there is still a sound remnant of these ‘Old Order Brethren on this forum; willing to search the Word and try the spirits! ~ Old Order Bros 🙂 😀 :0

    Excerpt from Bentley’s book-

    “God is raising up a new standard, a new banner if you will, that’s going to radically change the expression, the understanding of Christianity in our generation…God has invited us to have a role in establishing this NEW ORDER of Christianity…God is offering to this generation something He has never offered to any other generation… Beware lest OLD ORDER brethren rob you and steal this hope from you!(2)

  53. Have a listen to this song Daisy…


    I’ve just been playing along to it on my piano – I’ll play it again – it’s in G if you play guitar or anything – very encouraging – to break these kind of negative emotions off us with some positive – joy – ones… 🙂

    We can agree together that the Lord would set you free from these negative emotions – for God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power, love and of a sound mind – added to that we have the Holy Spirit living inside our new heart and our new spirit and our righteous soul has fellowship with Him… 🙂

    Love in the Lord,


  54. Kathleen Apr 25th 2013

    Jeremiah 6:16
    Thus saith the Lord, stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

    We do not need any “new ways, methods or gimmicks.”

  55. Neville Apr 25th 2013

    The Tests God showed me to use
    Does the Bible teach or allow it

    Does it show God’s type of Love

    Does it give God’s Glory to another

    Does it promote Jesus or His Kingdom or someone else

    DO you have the peace of The Holy Spirit as you think or do the action. This is perhaps the most important test.

    If it does not pass one of these tests then it is not scriptural and cannot be doctrine but may become a practice of a church or denomination being of no eternal purpose, except in the attitudes of the way it is done.

    There will be a conviction that it is wrong by The Holt Spirit and/or a lack of God’s peace.

  56. The Bible prophesied that the days would come when once again we would be able to distinguish between one who serves the Lord and one who does not.

    The false ministers and ministries were warned they could not serve BOTH, the Lord and money. Can you say “trap”?

    Walk away from the money-driven ministry and serve the Lord, while you can.

    Even the mightiest of ministers have been duped by the love of the dollar.

  57. How do you make the really “teethy” smiley face OneBody? I like that one… 🙂

  58. Johan Laubser Apr 25th 2013

    Daisy, I have been on anxiety medication myself and the fear of rejection from “brothers and sisters” and even from real sincere, but deceived, people, will keep you captive as long as you allow the guildt to control you. You have been set free by the BLOOD of JESUS and in His name you do not have to be anxious anymore from this moment on. Allow the HOLY Spirit to comfort you and your husband and believe that Father has only good for you in store. I can tell you in all honesty,I have been scared too,I felt on the wrong track too, but once I realised that I am actualy bound by church deception, I could break loose, by the power of God, of all condemnation which church people have put on me. Daisy in Jesus’s name: GO AND ENJOY HIS LOVE FOR YOU


  59. Amen Johan, we are in agreement… no more fear, no more anxiety… the joy of the Lord is our strength, be blessed brother… 🙂

  60. Heal Johan now Father, break off him every yoke in the Mighty Name of Jesus… 🙂

  61. OneBody Apr 25th 2013

    Andrew J H.
    A teethy smiley face is : + D. (subtract the spaces and +.
    DO NOT experiment too much. LOL. I tried to make a smiley with eyes and a circle mouth. It didn’t make an icon face at all, and appears very racist. All, please forgive me! I’ll be more careful.

  62. Dale, you cautioned us not to criticize God’s “annoited” and God’s “prophets”. I agree with you, but many who claim annoiting are NOT called by God, but by themselves. Claiming annoiting in no way is humble. Let other godly people make that claim concerning the “annoited” one, those who know their Bible. Surely you recognize something wrong in Todd’s own words, which OneBody posted:
    Excerpt from Bentley’s book-

    “God is raising up a new standard, a new banner if you will, that’s going to radically change the expression, the understanding of Christianity in our generation…God has invited us to have a role in establishing this NEW ORDER of Christianity…God is offering to this generation something He has never offered to any other generation… Beware lest OLD ORDER brethren rob you and steal this hope from you!(2)

    We are in an age where it seems like every other self centered person is claiming to be a prophet or claiming annointing. Dale, do you really think that God has changed? My God is the same today as He was in the Old Testament, and all will realize that when He returns as King of Kings. He came to teach us to love our neighbor and be Righteous under the LAMB, and have mercy for others, and while here during that time as LAMB He spoke to this generation, saying that it would not pass away before He returned.

    Did He tell us that there would be a NEW ORDER, specially for us???? NO! But, satan says that to everyone he tempts…”You are special”…he says, “God has something better for you!”

    Christ taught perfectly how we should behave, and He said, follow me. He confirmed the 10 Commandments, and explained what they meant. He told us what to pray for in the Lord’s Prayer. Jesus Christ is the STANDARD…and He is the same today as He was yesterday, and He will be the same tomorrow…only there will be iron rod rule….no more interference from ego preening peacocks impressed with their fake carnval splendor…noise, bright lights flashing, people screaming, here, here, purchase some of this! Don’t be left out!

    Wake up! There is nothing special about this selfish generation that destroys the world and allows their house to be broken through. God told us what this generation needs:

    Malachi 4:1-3 1)”Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2)But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. 3)Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the Lord Almighty.”

    Ezekiel 33: 9=Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

    “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” II Chronicles

    Luke 12: 37-39 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when He cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that He shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if He shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his HOUSE TO BE BROKEN THROUGH.

    Christians are allowing their place of worship, their “house” to be broken through, by not watching and not speaking up.

    It is a sin to remain quiet when error is observed amongst the house of the brethren, if there be scripture to illuminate that error.

  63. Rodney Apr 25th 2013

    People who know their Bible can still be fooled when they go thrill-seeking. That’s what happened to me. I wanted to have an experience. It comes from not being satisfied with your life in God. However it is a kind of spiritual adultery because it replaces God with an experience. But the spirit behind it is false.
    God requires that we worship him in good times and in tough times. You can’t live high all your life – that is not from God. You can be joyful, but it doesn’t look like what Bentley et al are promoting.

  64. A very relevant and good articel Andrews and this is probably the most important issue for Christianity in our time. When I was younger in the faith, but passionate for Jesus I had this dream.

    The dream: I and many other believers whom I knew, were in a long dark cold wet tunnel (like an old train tunnel). However at the end of the tunnel I saw a beautiful garden, bathed in light, with fantastic plants, looking very warm. So I eagerly moved towards the garden and out of the tunnel. When I called back to all the other people in the tunnel to join me they refused. I could not believe it, I was incredulous BUT then a voice spoke to me as if from Above and said, “My daughter most of these people will not come, most prefer to stay in this dark damp tunnel and most (nearly two thirds) will go into apostasy” .

    One of the safest place for true believers is to be outside the “Visible Church”. The history of the Visible Church has been plagued with apostasy way back to the Apostolic Era. However the “Invisible Church or the Ekklesia” are those believers through history and today, who will not be deceived, especially as the days get more evil.

    For the last 25 years I have been “picking” up believers who have been deceived, abused by the Visible Church, taken in by false movements/doctrines and so on. What is quite disheartening at times, like a dog going back to his vomit, they return to polluted
    sanctuaries and continue to be a god-seeker, despite hearing the truth. Messianic Bible teacher Jacob Prasch did a good teaching session on this and said that after awhile “God adds to their delusion” so they become more deceived.

    Often there are issues within a person that draws them to deception like a magnet. Carnaility, idols in the heart, familiar spirits, a need for deliverance from spiritual damage, parental traumas and so on. Like battered women going back to their abusive partners, time and time again.
    For instance I am currently working alongside two women who attend a Baptist type church imported from USA, where women are put down, told that a lot of the Bible does not apply/include them, can’t attend some studies as they are women and so on. These two women are intelligent, know their Bible -but can’t see the deception they are under there. They want to leave but can’t bring themselves to leave. However in unmasking them, they are both ‘victims’, both have a history of victimisation, so until healing and deliverance occurs, they will be drawn to abusive churches, deception and other places that are similar, despite knowing the Bible. Controlling pastors draw people who like being controlled
    or know that familiar environment, New Age practices will infiltrate and be readily received by pastors and church goers alike, where there may be occultic spiritual behaviour in their family heritage or a tendency to it. When I have unmasked the reasons why these people can’t see or refuse to see the deception in each case, there is usually a ‘spiritual influence” lurking around, which brings a blindness to truth. But in each case if they are teachable they can be reached and brought out of error.

    Andrew re your comments on the unsaved knowing the truth. Back in the early 80’s my then unsaved husband saw a video clip of Benny Hinn prancing around. He took one 5 minute glance at the video and said “If that is Christianity then I want no part of it”.

  65. I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?” And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; and one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.” And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.” And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped. (Revelation 5 NASB – emphasis added)

    I believe in this instance of “prosperity gospel” and “healings” of a dubious nature – which feel “forced” or “contrived” or just not “free” and as Andrew says, make you feel uncomfortable on the inside and a sense of “I just don’t really think this is of God” – that these “movements” have been brought in by the enemy “ahead of time” to try and abort the true move of God which is yet to happen in the West before He comes again…

    There is a true move of God presently occurring in other parts of the earth – true healings, true miracles, true signs and wonders – given to those who need it…

    Why do we think that God would give us those things when we – in the West – haven’t given ourselves to Him?

    We have given ourselves to all sorts of temporal pleasures – the pursuit of happiness – what does that mean anyway?

    What does God want us to pursue?


    And when we do He will give us true riches…

    True wealth…

    And I say that included in that true riches and true wealth is everything which we need to abound in generousity towards everyone we come across…

    Even if “silver and gold have I none” there will be others in the Body of Christ who have been gifted with great material wealth and as they yield themselves to the Lord there will be great abundance upon us all as we trust in His Name…

    The word in Revelation 5 interpreted “riches” http://biblesuite.com/greek/4149.htm is “wealth” in the Greek…

    And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed; as it is written, “HE SCATTERED ABROAD, HE GAVE TO THE POOR, HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ENDURES FOREVER.” (2 Corinthians 9:8-9 NASB)

    God owns everything and He is very interested in getting His Purpose performed in this earth…

    If we line ourselves up under His Purpose – to make disciples of all the nations – those who have given their lives to Him to serve Him from all the nations – then there is nothing that He will not give us to enable us to achieve this commission or assignment because this is what is on His Heart…

    If we don’t line ourselves up under God’s Heart for this world – His world – then we shouldn’t be surprised if we live in lack and need to take control of our own lives and try to provide for ourselves…

    Love in the Lord,


  66. Thanks OneBody… 😀

  67. Cecily Finn Apr 25th 2013

    This is an excellent article, and the kind that one should read more than once to absorb everything that Andrew has said. This lack of discernment is a dreadful curse on the church at this time, and as far as I can see, it is getting worse, not better.

    As Andrew said, if we know our God, then we will know what is not of Him. Simple as that. But knowing God takes time – time spent in His Word and in His Presence, and most of the time we are simply too slothful to take the time and the effort. But the more time spent in these pursuits, the less “effort” is involved, as it becomes both a labour of love, and essential to one’s whole being.

    Also, as it says in 2 Thessalonians, 2: 10-11, we simply must desire a “love of the truth”. If we love the truth, then we will hate the lie, and will not be suseptible to believing it. This scripture should put the holy fear of God in us, as He says that if we do not love the truth, then He will send us “strong delusion that (we) should believe a lie”. Think of the implications of this. If God were to bring such a thing upon you because you refused to love the truth, then you would not even know that you were being deluded. I think it is just that has happened to so many of the false prophets and false apostles and false teachers etc.

    I highly recommend that sincere believers pray EVERY DAY for a love of the truth. The Lord will honour your prayer, and you will find as time goes on, that your discernment gets sharper, and you begin more and more, to love what God loves, and to hate what He hates.

    We are living in very, very, dangerous times spiritually and we need very much to cling to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with every fibre of our being.

  68. OneBody Apr 25th 2013

    Kitty, re:Dale, you cautioned us not to criticize God’s “annoited” and God’s “prophets”. I agree with you, but many who claim annoiting are NOT called by God, but by themselves. Claiming annoiting in no way is humble

    SO true. Your above post has some really good food from the Word. I have always thought of Pr 25::27 – 28 It is not good to eat much honey [self glory]
    So to seek one’s own glory is not glory .[for true glory, is WORTHY]
    Whoever has no rule over his own spirit [seeking self glory]
    Is like a city broken down, without walls [defeated by the enemy]

    The HS was to glorify Jesus Christ, not the HS. John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    So many of these groups and manifestations bring glory to the HS. This violates God’s authority structure. The HS would not glorify himself, ever. This too, is a good litmus. Who is being glorified?
    Good post! 😀

  69. stephen boyce Apr 25th 2013

    that is lacking in the last days. I thank god for people like poonen and Wilkerson and the greens for some good teaching

  70. DISCERNMENT: I agree with all of the article above.
    This testimony may help a bit too, hopefully, it relates to the gift of discernment of spirits. The first church i ever joined in 1985 was very much into the gifts of the Spirit and God led me into moving in the gift of discernment of spirits early on Himself, by testing what our pastor preached on Sundays. I got into the habit of testing most things after that and became very familiar with what it was like/felt like to get discernment for the next few years.
    A few years later tho, after Id moved city, I moved less and less in this gift until I found that I no longer could anymore, it just wasn’t there for me anymore. After falling into a lot of deception with some Christian friends I was fellowshipping with I then resorted to crying out to God for discernment again, in desperation, and it was partially restored, although not in as wider way as before. Ive never had it fully restored to that previous level. It was very detailed though so you could tell almost dot and comma which bits of a prophecy or word of knowledge were of God or of man, or a mixture being partly distorted by the “prophet” or almost accurate etc.
    However I already had the experience of what discernment seemed like from before to rely on which helped me move back into it with confidence as it were. Some people can start getting false discernment vibes from deceiving spirits which simply lead them to accept counterfeit visions and words so be careful. I bet a lot of deceived people in Toronto believe they move in this gift when they dont anymore.
    I would say that a KEY point and something people often don’t realise is that you usually need to ask or seek God for discernment each time, which may only take seconds sometimes as God is keen to give us discernment, but asking/seeking is still often vital. Many people who have this gift however assume God will give them discernment automatically without them having to ask because they have experienced it come to them automatically like that in the past. They then move in presumption and get deceived even though they may have a very good gifting in discernment – had they only asked God to activate it that time. Some otherwise discerning people will refuse to seek discernment becase their presumption is so strong. Others doubt they will get any discernment anyway and so dont even try – In 2008 after the T. Bentley fiasco Dutch Sheets had the guts to admit that he and his associalted group of prophets (Peter Wagner linked), rarely even seeked discernment. I RECKON THAT IS VERY COMMON – because we think it will be so hard to achieve or “know” usually tho God is very keen to give us discernment and he can make it easy by relating it to a scripture we know that may contradict a certain prophwecy etc. In that sense its not difficult to move in discernment.
    Its a very personal thing and different people seem to discern things in different ways, in the same way we often hear God differently. If you move in this gift don’t explain to anyone exactly how you experience it though as the devil will then have a rough idea of how to counterfeit your personal gifting in this.
    Since 2007 I have found it has got gradually harder and harder to get clear discernment in the UK which i put down to the blocking effects of the worsening spiritual atmosphere here, (and in the rest of the western world too). I can still often get discernment when I ask for it or seek for it tho but not as often as I used to. It isn’t as detailed or crystal clear as it used to be for me either. This has reached a point where I am often reluctant to trust my own discernment these days whereas I used to be able to be 100% confident when I had received it. What i do now is seek discernment as a back up only, then rely on the other methods as the main tests afterwards to be on the safe side.
    It may not therefore be a good/easy season for people to start moving regularly in this gift from scratch because you really need a crystal clear season to get familiar with it so you can tell that the discernment you are experiencing is really from God and not a deceptive vibe itself. Or rather I would say if you start to branch out in this for the first time in this season do so with care and dont get over confident. Always question and test your own discernment.
    I think it is always a good idea to seek for the discernment first – before you have even read a prophecy or desription of a vision, so your own rational mind cannot interfere or feed you anything of yourself. In other words just look at the page off writting as a whole and discern it before you even know what it says. Then read the word or visions afterwards and see if what you believe your discernment gave you lines up with your reason based testing of that word and what you know scripture says. That way you can constantly test and appraise your discernment at the same time as using it. Its actually good fun testing your discernment in that way and a good way to find out how relieable it presently is, seeing how its holding up, as the state of ones discernment can be a fluid changeable thing.
    Discernemnt should be accurate almost all the time, if it isn’t then it really isn’t a lot of use and the likelihood is that one is not actually moving in this gift (anymore?/ at this time). Its important to be honest. As its a gift its not something we can take credit for anyway. As its a gift it shouldnt work any better when you are close to God or further away as its not preformance based. Thats very different to the witness of the Spirit.
    What I like most about discernment is what a game changer it can be and how quickly it can turn the tables on the enemy. One minute someone may be taken in by the most dangerous false visions or prophecies, (their own or others), but by simply briefly asking God, (sometimes even in the most casually way), and often God will then provide a key discernment that unravels the whole deception in seconds setting the person free. They may then turn from a course of promoting the deception themselves to being a lighthouse watchman warning others about it, all in just a few mini seconds.
    So my view is that its always worth asking for discernment even when you are not familiar with it. But be careful about assuming you will always get discernment especially in these days of deception. i would say rely primarily on the other tests. There are things though, especially detials, that can be revealed through this gift that knowing scripture, having good judgement and even the witness of the Spirit cannot really reveal so it can be irreplacable at times too.
    A good word of knowledge someone once received on another way of discerning things was to let your thoughts dwell on Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, then whilst in that mode introduce the manifestation or prophecy that you want to test. Does it seem to come from the same author, the same Spirit? If not then its probably a deception.
    Another method is to ask God for a scripture that contradicts a prophecy, that then proves its a deception. Dont ask for one that agrees as the devil can provide those, but one scripture that contradicts a word wipes all those out.
    So, as far as Im aware, theres the above 2 methods, the gift of discerning of spirits, the witness of the Spirit, testing things against scripture and using sound judgement, experience and common sense which should all line up with one another if used together. There must be other ways too. The most important surely has to be testing against scripture though.

  71. Darren Sargent Apr 25th 2013

    Hi Andrew,
    great job on the article. As I saw the title in my inbox I rolled off the thngs that protect us and there they were; your top three were my top three.

    I would add just one other: being held in prayer by fellowships and people who can speak the truth in love because they just don’t spend 1 or 2 days a week with each other.

    Together we have the mind of Christ.

    love to All

  72. fabakary Apr 25th 2013

    Regardless of whatsoever our opinion may be , let us not forget we cannot do away with the supernatural as followers of Christ . Everything of the christian life is supernatural ; as christian our walk is in the spirit and from there we have our victory.
    I have listen christian sermon from the Likes of Leonard ravenhill, Austin sparks though it only lasts in minutes etc in my room not in a dream or vision without a radio or any technological means but Supernaturally . There is sermon collection call revival hymn in sermon index ; I have listen it also supernaturally without any physical connection and it so loud in my room but only i can hear it. It happens when a divine manifestation of God comes in my room and the atmosphere fill with the holiness of God. The presence of God is very different from the presence of demons if you know the difference between the two. When that presence of God comes , I can hear for free any christian song I wish to hear , i just have to mention the title of the song and it is like a heavenly choir will minister the song . There is more and more to it I did not even share a quarter of it but this had been happening over and over. Now imagine if the world cut of all Christan websites and we have no access to sermons , Christan songs etc yet there is a supernatural provision we have in Christ , to listen to sermons and listen to any Christian song without any technological means . While this experience blesses me greatly and strengthen my spiritual life yet I sometimes feels so lonely because I did not yet hear any of God children share such. In fact most of the ones I know are very supicious of anythng that have to do with the supernatural; and mostly in need not to offend any i chose to keep quite.Yes there many experience which are not permitted to be share but as for this one is very necessary to build our Faith n the supernatural provision of God.Gods people should not fear even the world may cut off christian websites , we can have access to all the sermon books, and songs etc supernatural . Simple seek Christ not manifestation and only Christ to avoid deception but do not fear the supernatural. I do not receive this manifestation by my will neighter do i pray for them to come they come by Gods will.
    Please if you are reading this and have such kind of experience I will love to hear from you as that will be a great encouragement to me and will make me feel not alone.

  73. Roger (NZ) Apr 25th 2013

    fabakery/James – I can understand why you are reluctant to share as you have..

    Whilst I have had visions, and heard both audible and ‘internal’ voices, both from the Holy Spirit and from satan – I confess that like you, I have not heard of any others receiving ‘sermons from man’ in this manner, as an audible voice in an empty room.

    Each vision (that I had) from God was for my own encouragement, and confirmed, or revealed, a physical direction that I was to move forward in. The ‘words’ I heard were sometimes as confirmation, other times a scripture, other times to be spoken out for another, and also songs that I have sung in the past are sometimes brought to mind.

    I have heard of similar testimonies from others, especially in countries where Christians are persecuted, or opressed, but as I recall, in each situation the ‘words’ heard were either scripture, or a confirmation, conviction, answer to prayer, from God through the Holy Spirit.

    If I was to hear an audible voice, preaching a sermon in an empty room, I would question the source. I do not doubt that God will speak words to us, (as I have testified above) – however I do believe that He brings us His words directly, not needing to use a sermon from man.

    I hope the way I have explained my own experience, makes sense..?

    I do not discount that you heard a voice supernaturally – just believe to share that if I was in that situation, I would question the source rather than just accept it was from God.

    In His love,

  74. Jda016 Apr 26th 2013

    Dear Daisy,

    Take this up with the Lord, you and your husband. I am not saying that I am speaking for God or anything, but I personally do not think you should go back to this church.

    You could go back and try to get them to listen to you, but I believe the time has come where the tares and wheat are coming to full maturity. You can no longer afford to be linked to those who do not want God. They will not listen to truth.

    However, I do believe that those God has called in your church will contact YOU. Those seeking God will call and ask you why you are leaving and God will give you an opportunity to witness to them without being apart of the corruption of the church.

    Your leaving will be the greatest statement that what they are doing is wrong. Make a clean break and tell them why you are leaving. Some may listen to you, but most will not.

    I have recently been learning in my life that God calls us to a point where we no longer strive with other people to see the truth. As Samuel wept and prayed for Saul, God told him to get up off his face, for God had rejected Saul and chosen David. Sometimes God will call us to intercede for people and our hearts should always be for them to see the truth, however you do not want to be in Sodom and Gomorrah when judgement falls.

    I feel God is saying to you, “Be Holy, because I am Holy” (1 Peter 1:16).

    There are several meanings for the word “holy” in Greek, but two of them are “different” or “separate.” I believe you are to be separated from the congregation that you are going to because they will no longer stand sound doctrine.

    But pray that the Holy Spirit gives you wisdom if what I say is right or wrong.

    God keep you safe and bless you!


  75. Averyl Apr 26th 2013

    About 10 years ago a visiting Brisbane pastor/evangelist was visiting locally & my friends recommended that I go & listen to him. I had been “out of church” for a few years. My daughter & I arrived on time but the hall was packed & we had to sit in the back row.
    During worship, he encouraged us to stand on the chairs. His controlling manner made me concerned.
    He said some horrific things & finally zoomed in on me! I had just been sitting there quietly.
    He came out & right into the row I was in & spoke to me directly.
    He asked me if I was saved & which church I attended. I was practically paralysed!
    Then he said it was because of people like me that the town wasn’t having revival, that I would burn in hell with Satan, etc.etc..
    Most of the people, including my friends, turned to face me & were laughing!
    During his message he frequently made comments alluding to me & that I was free to leave.
    We stuck it out til the end.
    Why did he pick on me? Discernment? Did someone patrolling the aisle whisper in his ear?

    The result was that I questioned myself, – how could I supposedly be wrong & all those people be right?

  76. Jda016 Apr 26th 2013

    Dear Daisy,

    I also feel that all of your fear, anxiety, twitching, etc is purely demonic in nature. It has come from the church you are in.

    This is why it is so important to leave. I believe when you make yourself apart of a church, you are under it’s “head-covering,” in other words you are subject to the evil spirits that operate over it. If evil spirits rule the place, as it sounds that they do, then they have a right to attack you, even though you are a Christian, because you are not fully separated from that church.

    It doesn’t matter how many Scriptures you quote against the Devil or how many “leave in Jesus’ names” you make, if God has told you to leave, then you must go. Otherwise the devil has a legal right to afflict you.

    Again, test to see if what I say is true or not. I don’t presume to know all the answers, however I do feel this strongly in my spirit.

    May God watch over you and give you peace. May He heal you of all afflictions and arrows from the evil one.


  77. fabakary Apr 26th 2013

    Thank you Roger but what makes you think God can speak to you by an inspire song and not an inspire sermon ? The song I speak of are audible not just something in my mind.The bible was written by men what made it different is the inspiration of the holy spirit.Anyway what that teaches me is if i am in prison for example today not only can i have direct link to God voice, but I can still commune with the gifts he places in his body while, without technology means.God does speak to us through his body.

  78. Jda016 Apr 26th 2013

    Dear Averyl,

    What was done to you was pure evil! Do not doubt your salvation because of an evil man.

    you said , “The result was that I questioned myself, – how could I supposedly be wrong & all those people be right?”

    I instantly thought of King Ahab and King Jehosophat when they asked the prophets about whether or not they should go to war. A deceiving spirit was in 400 prophets who told them to go to war and that they would win and only 1 prophet spoke the real Word of God saying that Ahab would die. His name was Micaiah (2 Chron. 18). He was completely alone and yet he had God’s Word, not the 400 other prophets.

    May God cleanse and heal you of every evil thing spoken against you.

  79. margaret Apr 26th 2013

    As an ex catholic, I can see the deception you mentioned that surprises me …. some are turning to the writings of people like St John of the Cross( I found him frustratingly confusing and obscure),and now some are turning from the simple expressions of praise from the psalms , with an over emphasis on the song of the Lord and loud drums which require ear plugs. What you have written very encouraging Andrew, I simply cannot go to church where my ‘hearing’ is being destroyed. Scripture says we are to ‘hear and obey’ and as Derek Prince an anointed teacher once said ‘God gave us two ears so we can listen …listening.’……it grieves me that young people are not being told the truth about music in the church and I see the subtlety of Jezebelic control in all that. It seem to start there.Thank you for your words of encouragement.He has a still small voice not a loud one as far as I can tell ( or hear)…

  80. For Dale/Kitty replies

    The NT Scriptures tell us that every Christian is the “anointed of the Lord”
    (1 John 2:20,27) and not just the elder/preacher. Every Christian is both a king and priest, and as such has been anointed with the Holy Spirit to equip them for their ministry. The anointing comes from the HOLY SPIRIT.

    The phrase “Don’t Touch the Lord’s anointed” comes from 1 Samuel chapter 24 and 26 where David refuses to kill Saul. Many present-day “elders” have taken this to mean that no one can question them, BUT THEY ARE TAKING THE TEXT OUT OF CONTEXT. The verse refers to killing Saul, not questioning him! It is a physical touching. In fact, immediately afterwards, David goes on to publicly question Saul’s motives in 1 Samuel 24:8-15 and 26:18-20.

    Not only that, but in the NT, Paul said he was the least of all the apostles in 1 Corinthians 15:9 “For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.”
    Yet in Galatians 2:11 Paul the lesser publicly corrects Peter the greater. “When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.”

    The ‘do not touch God’s anointing’ nonsense is a false doctrine from false leaders, who refuse to be disciplined by Scripture. One prime example is tap dancer Benny Hinn! He even curses people if they criticise him -it has been recorded word for word. Truly unbelievably evil.

  81. jackrabbit Apr 26th 2013

    Averyl, it is because it is obvious that you do not believe him. He does not want other people to see it or they will be on their guard too. He was lying and ridiculing you because to distract people from seeing through him. A churl.

    They do it to everyone with common sense, it is not just picking on you. He was trying to break your spirit and undermine your confidence in yourself. God is a gentleman and if the pastor is not a gentleman do not take him seriously as a pastor. Gentlemen will not put up with churls.

  82. David Marsh Apr 26th 2013

    mmmmm. Andrew. Thank you for bringing up this most important topic for discussion. Your article is excellent and my hope is that it can be fully explored here for the benefit of all.
    Barry Schmidt – thank you for your honesty in sharing with us your own experience. None of us have escaped from being deceived in the things of the Lord at some stage or other.
    During my time in the AOG ( late 1990’s) our pastor ventured abroad to taste of the “Toronto blessings” and he did indeed bring back something. We began our soaker services and all manner of manifestations began to break loose. I personally was very excited about seeing ‘God’ move but I could not get a PEACE in my heart about the whole scene. Eventually, through frustration, I had to taste for myself what was going on.
    In one of the ‘services’ I lay on the floor and observed one of the members laughing uncontrollably and I asked the Lord, “Lord, I would like to have what she is having” (lol). Anyway, nothing happened until I got into my car to drive home. As I pulled out onto the road I received a ‘drunken’ spirit. I simply roared with laughter and swerved my way home. Then, when I pulled up in front of my home the ‘spirit’ left me.
    I was taken aback and somewhat horrified. “Why would God do that to me?” and I had to concede that that was not of God.

    There was No PEACE in it. There was No JOY in it, and there was No loveliness/godliness about it.

    I turned away from and renounced that spirit. My days in that church were coming to an end and the pastor soon fled overseas to San Francisco to start another church.

    My love for the Lord ran in front of the Lord.

    About a year ago, another deception mistake was to get caught up in a web site called ‘Takehisheart’ ministries. Amazing stuff, I thought, some amazing insights but I could find No PEACE about this ministry in my heart. I had to turn away from it and leave it to the Lord. A good sister in Christ confirming my concern much later.

    The truth is that we must always be sensitive to the inner promptings of God’s Holy Spirit. Before we go forward into anything.

    This is what God is currently testing us on.
    This is how God is sifting us at present.
    Those who put Him first – before our own desires and will – are the ones He is searching for.

    Discernment starts with this. “Lord, Your will please”
    Discernment begins with a love for the truth.
    Discernment can only really be gained when our heart is pure before God.

    Discernment is practiced by listening to God’s inner witness within. God’s PEACE, and inward ASSURANCE whereby we KNOW that we KNOW that it is right – are the basic ways that the Spirit tells us that this is of Him.

    Discernment agrees with what is in the Scriptures.

    And finally, Discernment comes when we really know God – spending lots and lots of time with God – ASKING Him to guide us every day, ASKING Him for the truth every day. Amen

    God bless you all,

    David Marsh.

  83. Thank you for your warning, Andrew. I’ve never seen God-TV but the name strikes me as being presumptuous. There are many similar (blasphemous, I think) titles and sentences bandied blithely about. Recently I read these loose-tongued words “Dive into the Holy Spirit” as a promo for a book.

    And what about “I love the Holy Spirit”. Does the Holy Spirit want us to love Him? Is this a misguided pity, feeling that He is neglected? When we love God, we do love Him, together with our Lord and our Father, don’t we?

    That speaker knows, in another part of his “charismatic” thinking, that Galatians 4’6 says: “God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Our worship and fellowship is primarily with Him, through Christ.

    Some “ordinary” sayings I’ve picked up are:

    Deception is deceivingly deceitful! Those who think they can’t be deceived have already deceived themselves.

    When you know The Truth you’ll smell error coming down the street.

    We are not called to trust but to love. Always be sceptical but never cynical.

    Perhaps Paul’s concern is relevant here: “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ,” 2 Corinthians 11’3.

    Your concern is admirable, Andrew. May the Lord use it mightily.

  84. Averyl Apr 26th 2013

    Here’s something that has really rocked my faith this week, let alone those directly concerned.
    In a newspaper it was reported that a Christian couple in America had failed to get medical help for two of their 7 children, believing that God would heal them. At least one of them died.
    Now they have had all the remaining children taken away from them.

    Many years ago we were taught this same doctrine. My toddler daughter was scolded & I didn’t take her to the hospital until the next day. Now she has ugly scars from skin grafts which may not have been so bad had I taken her immediately.

  85. AM, thank you for sharing your Dream, it rings true.

    AM, I would agree with your statement and the scripture that you references which says we are annoited with the Holy Spirit to equip us, in so far as only the Holy Spirit within us directs us to totally point towards Jesus Christ and not ourselves….ever.

    Thank you for supplying music for us to listen to while we read the posts Andrew Horton.

  86. Yes, Averyl, that is a good example of staying in that “dark tunnel” that AM dreamed about. Man looking to the dogma of man. I guess by the same belief that kept them from seeking the medical attention that the child needed, would also make them not look both ways before crossing a street, because God will protect them, and “when it is there time, it is there time”!

    I hate it when Christians use that sentence. Many times God calls us to Him for a reason, but many times we through our own carelessness, stupidity, or pure coincidence (such as being under a land slide when it unexpectantly happens) die or are injured because of physical natural reasons….because we live on an imperfect earth.

    I am sure those parents who withheld medical attention, used that sentence….”Well, God must have wanted our child with Him”.

  87. Fabakary; Eternal Father is Spirit and can do all things supernaturally….depending on how we are wired has something to do with it also. I am glad He can reach you that way.

    Too many people try to stuff God into their world, limit Him to their scientific explainations, instead of realizing that nothing is impossible for Him. He must know the music is very important to you….and He shows His love for you that way.

    He spoke to me in clear cut words within my mind once. I had been struggling with the concept of murder, anger, loosing one’s temper over personal tresspass as being the lowest step of murder. I was in my early 30’s, on the way to work in California traffic and totally lost my temper (tho the driver in the other car didn’t know it, and didn’t see my less than eloquent finger gesture…and if I had power, he would have melted, evaporated. I was not as perfect back then.) 😉

    Any way, I got to my office and I was so upset at myself for losing my temper that I cried out to God internally…”I’ve killed again,…why….why…do I do this?” Immediately within my head came the words, fully formed and complete:


    Straight forward and so true! So simple. I had never before realized the dynamics behind rude behavior. Speeding up in a passing zone and then slowing down at the end of the passing zone so a driver cannot pass, is totally a selfish unloving act, based on overwhelming ego. My expression of anger instead of understanding that the driver must have had some type of low esteem level, that caused him to spread his controlling ego all over both lanes was also based on a loveless principle.

    I immediately turned and typed out the message because I think it was the key I had been praying for to help me gain control in this area and stop killing people. I totally understand too, why we have to strive to be under His Will and not ours, and why also, we won’t be transformed until He feels certain that we totally crave His Will.

  88. I am blessed by the comments.

    Something that caught my eye was a reference to the many anti-depressives being used and I am one of the users. As a christian, who was just overwhelmed with a dozen things out of my control at some point in my life, I had to succumb to them; they took the place of a church body. And grace wasn’t sufficient for me, nor did I have enough faith. There was no other option for me, except wait on the Lord to heal my anxiety where I couldn’t get out of bed. Anxiety was hurting my health and worrying my family.

    Years later, I am so worried now that I’ll never be free of them and with the Church being sabotaged by fakes and charlatans, will there ever be freedom for those who are alone and unchurched and dependent on something that keeps them from emotional/mental torture?

    I pray I’m not the only christian who is under this treatment. I know the Lord is everything and can do anything, but with more frightening trials ahead for me, I wonder if there is any hope for a christian like me.

  89. Roger (NZ) Apr 26th 2013

    fabakery/James – you say: Thank you Roger but what makes you think God can speak to you by an inspire song and not an inspire sermon ? The song I speak of are audible not just something in my mind.

    Yes I understood that you said both song and sermon (of man)were audible, and outside of your head in an empty room – you were very clear on that 🙂

    I was sharing that I hadn’t heard either song or a sermon (of man)that way, and that if I did, I would question the source. For me, that is a part of the discernment ‘package’.

    Kitty – yes, your example is how I would describe my experiences of words from God – fully formed, complete, and to the point – my spirit is convicted and receives when these words are from God 🙂

  90. Zululander Apr 26th 2013

    Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, even those who because of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    I think discernment or the ability to, grows in one as you grow & you exercise yourself in the points mentioned in the article.
    I think one needs to be careful not to try to discern every dot & comma anyone says. It is possible we “discern” from a lack of knowledge. Sometimes it is best just to ignore a thing lest we found to be false judges & accusers of the brethren
    Sometimes we need to discern ourselves in our motives & actions!!!!…even on this forum.
    Just a caution, I totally agree with the article

  91. We are going to need our discernment if what the Vatican is expecting in the coming future arrives as they expect it to. We are going to have to know intimately the teachings in the Bible from the prophets and Jesus Christ, each individual knowing, and not relying on just being told what it says. I heard something kinda scary today.
    As you know there is a new pope in the Vatican, a Jesuit. Jesuits have a long history as being enforcers of the religion. I believe they are the ones who rounded up the “heretics”, led the crusades and slaughters of those who did not believe as the Holy Roman Church decreed that they should believe.
    We all know the Deceiver is coming, already here in the spirit. I have known that there is an infrared telescope on a mountain in Arizona (forgot the name) for some time. In Indian legion, this mountain was supposidly a portal where wierd things came through. Why would the Vatican want to place the scope here? Anyway, the Vatican, under Jesuit control, now has one of the most powerful infrared telescopes on this mountain, and got special permission from our government to waive environmental factors. They have been watching for extraterresterial life approaching the earth…they are expecting something…and have been watching since 1992, according to interviews with those in charge.
    Today I heard on Prophecy in the News, the author Tom Horn who has been doing research on this Vatican telescope, and interviewing those in charge. One of the vatican boys has 3 PHD’s and also consults for NASA. Tom Horn revealed that during the interviews the Jesuits are saying, “We are likely to be invaded, but don’t be afraid, it is not going to upset the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, we are ready for it.” Mr. Horn went on to say that Father Jesepi Tanseli Nefe (totally mispelled) who is Opus Bayite (totally misspelled) theologian for the University of the Holy Pontifical Cross of Rome, said: “Spiritual ET contact will not immediately oblidge the Christian to renounce his own faith in God simply on the basis of the reception of the new unexpected information of a religious character from an extra terrestial civilization, but that a renunciation could come soon after, as the new religious content originating from outside of the earth is confirmed as reasonable and credible. Once the trustworthiness of the information has been verified the Believer will have to reconcile such new information with the truth that he or she already knows and believes. on the basis of the revelations of the One True Triune God conducting a re-reading of the Gospel inclusive of the new data.”
    Mr. Horn went on to say; “So they (The Vatican) are preparing a theological position that will accommodate a dynamic ET reality that actually comes to the same conclusion as the other Vatican astronomers we talked to: #1=advanced ETI’s are likely to be morally superior to us. #2 They are likely to come here to evangelize us; #3 We will need to change our theology to accomodate their beliefs. One of the Vatican astronomers, Funess, had stated, that to not believe in the existence of the aliens and to not be willing to accept their superior dogma, that, that is going to be the true heresy of the future.”
    Sure sounds like shades of the great deceiver coming to spread peace that kills multitudes, and causes an abomination, linked up with the false prophet. I sure did not know that the Vatican also believed in ET’s….fallen angels returning like in the Days of Noah, only it sounds like they might embrace them???
    Sharpen your Discernment pencils, know what God has warned us about in His scriptures, in His parables so we are not deceived if the Vatican tries to push this upon the entire world. There is a reason that God placed all the info about the latter times in the Bible. We need to understand God’s detailed warnings so that we can help our neighbors not be deceived. We need to be able to recognize any errors presented to us….and most importantly pray for God’s blessed covering.

  92. Hi David (Marsh),

    I personally don’t go with the “drunkenness” thing but I definitely do experience the joy of the Lord… 🙂

    Sometimes I feel so happy when I think about what I have been made in Christ that I just laugh out loud (usually in my prayer room by myself) but I catch myself smiling randomly and being excessively happy in the supermarket and at work as well and it “rubs off” on those around me – they start smiling being happy also (I’ve been noticing that) – the (infectious) joy of the Lord – in what He’s freely made us in Christ (in His Finished Work) – has definitely been filling me with joy (unspeakable and full of glory – some times I laugh so hard and smile so widely that my face hurts – but I’m in complete control and there’s no “drunkenness” associated with it) – and I believe that this is what Paul talks about where He says to be filled with the Holy Spirit and not drunk on wine – Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit “possessing” us and taking over but still being in a completely sound mind and in control in a good way… 🙂

    Love in the Lord,


  93. fabakary Apr 26th 2013

    Kitty wrote: “Too many people try to stuff God into their world, limit Him to their scientific explainations, instead of realizing that nothing is impossible for Him….”
    Amen Kitty, I am very confident that whatsoever science can do God can do far greater. In those days I keep imagining how life will be if I am in a place where I will not have access to technology to access christian songs etc . But now it is settle with me that God can creates the very inspire songs and sermons that he will want me to hear even without technological means.This is a many many times experience , and such created songs blesses my spirit a hundred times better than when sang by a human being.With such songs or sermons you will immediately forgot all sorrows, carnality, with a desire to be ever with the Lord. Until we realize that all that we need is in Christ we will be in bondage to the elements of this world ; And because of that we have many worries and cares when we are limited physically , technology wise etc because of our ignorance of the supernatural provisions of God 1.Moses never saw any man parts the red sea before him , yet it was God , who gave him the power to do it though none in his time or before him did it
    2.David slew Goliath with a stone yet none before him or in his time did it
    3.Daniel was saved from the Lions yet it was a first hand experience . We can go on event on event on using different persons in the scripture who through God saw him do things that are new in there generations yet not new as long as God is concern.
    The scripture says our God can do FAR MORE EXCEEDINGLY ABOVE ALL THAT WE CAN ASK OR Think.So the issue is not a matter of whether our God had done this or that miracle before , but those it glorifies Him , His character and nature. Our Lord spoke of greater works, to be done in His body; and His words can never pass away.
    And thank you Zululander for that Counsel.

  94. Good timely word here Andrew Strom !

    I will back up what you have shared with a little of my own testimony , which really is a testimony of Lord Jesus Christ.

    Before I came to know Lord Jesus Christ , I was an educated western based materialistic person who had got into all the usual New age stuff , and who had a real resistance to anything ” chistain ” including the bible , due to the hipocracy I had seen first hand from those who called themselves christians, however as I would come to know, never knew Him or obeyed His commands.

    Because of this resistance to becoming a ” chistain ” our Lord Jesus Christ , through His grace and mercy, healed and restored me , and led me by His spirit , revealing Him self to me , bit by bit confirming to me that His written word is also the truth, and that as we come to know Him in truth and Spirit, His written word becomes our testimony , as all things that truly come from Him point back to Him, and as He is revealed to us, we point others only towards Him, not ourselves !

    He revealed many things to me through dreams and visions , that over time I would come to know only confirmed the truth that is written.

    In all of the dreams and visions I have ever being given they all mirror examples that are in the bible.

    He would give me insight to travel to certain places to see certain people who never knew Him, and He would heal them and lead them as He had done for me.

    Through His guidance and leading He always led me to others and my task was simple, to put there hands in His , for His Glory, not mine, for His Kingdom , not mine.

    There was never any ” knew thing ” or knew manifestation that allows us to take a platform , and speak in His name for our gain !

    He showed me the parts in the bible that refer to those who use His name for their own gain ;

    2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

    Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    Col 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
    Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

    So please !!!! don’t take everything that is said in His name that end up being for our gain!

    Test the spirit that comes in His name to ensure that is only asking you to take up your cross and follow after Him !!

    ,,,,,that is is all for His glory and His Kingdom , not for our gain or recognition !!

    Praise our glorious Lord Jesus Christ !


    He is risen !

    He never changes !

    He is our ruler !

    He is our comforter !

    He lives within us !

    He rules above us !

    He is Holy !

    the Name above all Names !

    our glorious risen Lord Jesus Christ

  95. Roger (NZ) Apr 26th 2013

    Kitty – We are going to need our discernment if what the Vatican is expecting in the coming future arrives as they expect it to. We are going to have to know intimately the teachings in the Bible from the prophets and Jesus Christ, each individual knowing, and not relying on just being told what it says.

    Yes, indeed we are – and with respect to the RCC and extraterrestrial life, my understanding is that this investigation has been ongoing for some years.

    The valid concern that many have is that once one begins treating biblical scripture as other than historical fact – e.g treating the Genesis account of creation as a ‘story’ with symbolic meaning, or as a myth or fable – one will continue to ask “..hath God said.?.”

    Many ask the question with regard to Jesus ‘virgin’ birth and His resurrection.- did it actually happen..? We say definitely yes, many are not sure.

    There are also many today who believe, and teach, of an ‘antichrist’ spirit – yet deny a final, physical ‘antichrist’, whom scripture calls ‘beast’, ‘son of perdition’ or ‘man of lawlessness’. They may however, be looking for the appearance of Lord Jesus, His visible return, as the next significant ‘event’.

    These ones may be deceived into receiving a false christ in place of Christ Jesus our risen Lord, God and King.

  96. Roger (NZ) Apr 26th 2013

    Amen Kevin..!! 😀

  97. David Marsh Apr 26th 2013

    Hi Andrew H.
    Sorry, I didnt explain myself well there. The ‘drunken’ spirit was a kundalini type of spirit.

    However, you are absolutely correct that God’s Holy Spirit is amazingly beautiful. Full of PEACE, LOVE and JOY.

    God bless you

    David Marsh.

  98. Praise the Lord for your testimony Kevin, Praise You Jesus… 😀

  99. Amen brother David… 🙂

  100. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    There has been the mention here of extraterrestrials coming to earth.

    Do you actually believe there are aliens from other planets coming?

    Anyone believe this?

  101. Andrew Strom,

    Good article.

    I’ve never seen God TV, but just thinking about that title almost sounds like a curse word or at least a derogatory way of using the Lord’s name.

    Lord Bless,

  102. Andrew Apr 26th 2013

    Donald – the “aliens” are demons.

    And deception is their game

    Bless you!


  103. Donald,

    I do not believe there is any such thing as alien beings out there in the universe.

    What is revealed in the Word of God is all that exists and our salvation only comes through Jesus Christ.


  104. There has been the mention here of extraterrestrials coming to earth.

    Do you actually believe there are aliens from other planets coming?

    Anyone believe this?

    NOT in the least.
    HOWEVER………………science, new age, and elites have long
    been at work.
    SO this could be staged………..to get the WORLD under total
    IT would be of men of course. You think we know all technology………..think again.
    This technology you see now………
    is years behind what some already have.
    And only a few allowed access.
    DONT fall for a DELUSION.
    they aint NO aliens from space.
    THAT would be a way of trickery into decpetion.
    DID you all notice that the space program has somewhat ended.
    Mayhaps what they need is already in space for a false appearance. THIS is of course speculation on my part.
    All i am saying is for years area 51 etc
    has been creating odd crafts, which many are deluded into
    thinking are alien. cause they aint seen nothing LIKE IT
    BE NOT DECIEVED……………..they are way ahead on technology.
    alien sightings , ufos……………..simply
    new equipment being tested and a public NOT NEEDING TO KNOW…………………set up on a NEED to KNOW basis.
    And the masses simply DONT NEED TO KNOW.
    Just dont be decieved by ANYTHING
    it wont be aliens from space…………..
    IT , if it even happens that way
    WOULD BE MAN PLANNED and MAN STAGED to LOOK like that. HOW much ya bet…………..IF, it happened that way
    THEM NEW ALIENS WOULD BE ALL ABOUT WORLD PEACE and the NEED to rid of the deffective earthling who puts
    their GOD above the collective whole of humanity.
    SO dont fall for any sly trick. THE deception of whatever is coming
    will be accompanied with STRONG DELUSIONS
    and all else that contradicts is FALSE. amen.
    NO superstious sheeples on this watch………………
    JUST FOLLOW JESUS and you wont be decieved. amen.

  105. I had a SECRETE CLEARANCE once
    they are way ahead on tech.

  106. i percieve ye men are way too superstious in all things
    the devil knows superstion.
    DONT think nor believe in aliens………..
    men worshipped gods of jupiter,
    IF it even happend that way
    would BE POLITICAL………………
    and have the same PEACE AND UNITY AGENDA
    new age does………..
    IN OTHER WORDS……………….simply
    staged of men. LET US NOT BE SUPERSTIOUS

  107. anyone else noticed they ended the space program
    mayhaps they are planning this.
    EITHER WAY, it will have been of men
    the blending of species in dna aint new either
    so if these so called aliens look not quite like us
    that simple. that plain.
    NOT aliens……………just evil inventions of men.
    LET us not be FOOLED. LET us only stick in BIBLE.
    and be very careful what you read on the internet.
    for many just say whatever to say whatever.
    some dont though. I have tested immensly and gotten
    the words right from those they say are saying it.
    THEN after complete testing………….so as i wont be a false accuser, then i warn.
    and WHEN I SAY we nigh the end………………WE NIGH THE END.
    all new age, its new god in flesh coming………
    is WORD FOR WORD of how paul and daneil said
    WORD…………..FOR ……………WORD.
    WORD ………….FOR ………….WORD.
    dont believe THE LIE all are saved and all religoins worship same GOD, and HE is coming soon in the flesh
    to UNITE all in peace. Noooooooooooooooo
    and through PEACE……………..yes……….PEACE
    shall HE destroy many.
    DONT be fooled lambs……………MAN , men, nor the colletive conscious of mankind………..gonna save anyone.
    no other god, men cant save themselves
    ONLY JESUS. amen.

  108. Roger (NZ) Apr 26th 2013

    Just to clarify – Kitty was warning AGAINST the RCC who are investigating the possibility of extraterrestrail life.

    I don’t read that she believes in A.L.F.’s and neither do I.. 🙂

    any other way……………..ROBBERS and THEIVES
    SOON the lambs , who FOLLOW JESUS and claim NO OTHER way………………….will be the ONLY ONES NOT UNDER
    all other religions will, all other peoples will.
    THEN………………..the GReAT dearth begins…….
    and we about outtta time. SO dont fear
    just understand……………..we nigh the end.
    AND OUR TRUE KING………………….shall RIP the sky
    and so all in HIM, at that day………………will be called up to meet
    HIM in the air………
    IF someone says HE IS SPEAKING in JERUSALME
    and talking of world peace and UNITY
    BELIEVE THEM NOT…………………..
    if they say……………….HE came from HIMALYAS……………..beleive THEM NOT
    IF they say……………..the CHRIST is talking on cbn
    in the conscious of a man.
    FOR as the LIGHTING flashes from east to west
    HE COMES…………….and when he does
    ITS to call his own up and to DELIVER THE WRATH OF GOD.
    aint TWO special apperances……..
    dont let that day overttake any as a theif in the night.
    BE OF THE DAY………………..and be blessed. amen.

  110. Intercessor Apr 26th 2013

    This smells to me like the devil setting the stage to lie to the world about our rapture:

    “There has been a mass alien-abduction”!

  111. Jda016 Apr 26th 2013

    Dear Marie,

    My family has struggled with a long line of fear, anxiety, and depression. It makes every situation seem ten times harder and what comes easily for some people (because of the strength of their personality) is incredibly difficult for people like us.

    The Lord bless you and keep you and may you find His grace ever sufficient for you. I know that fear and anxiety, for me, has often led me to seek the Lord even more, because I know how little my strength is.

    I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and there are many suffering saints who find it difficult to even lift their head sometimes.

  112. fabakary Apr 26th 2013

    Roger wrote:”There are also many today who believe, and teach, of an ‘antichrist’ spirit – yet deny a final, physical ‘antichrist’, whom scripture calls ‘beast’, ‘son of perdition’ or ‘man of lawlessness’. They may however, be looking for the appearance of Lord Jesus, His visible return, as the next significant ‘event’. These ones may be deceived into receiving a false christ in place of Christ Jesus our risen Lord, God and King.”
    Roger I am almost incline more to this believe ; and you are fearing people like us may receive a false Christ because of such a believe? Do not think so Brother , I trust his grace is still sufficient even if our future concepts is wrong. We are all brethren as long as we are saved by Him today.

  113. I don’t believe in the existence of extra-terrestrial beings…

    I believe in the Lord, the existence of angels, demons, the devil and human beings…

  114. BE OF THE DAY
    for ON HIS DAY……………………that is a blessing and great GLORY to be revealed.
    BUT if one is of the night……………..TIS WRATH ………..
    now……………..if the man of the house would have known
    what hour the thief was coming……….WOULDNT he have been ready…………..
    GUESS what NO MAN knows the day or hour of OUR LORD.
    BE WATCHING, and what i say to one i say to all
    WATCH…………….lest that day overtake one as a thief
    lest one be ovetaken in the cares and pleasures of LIFE
    and that day OVERTAKE THEM as a theif in the night.
    BE OF THE DAY………………..and be rewarded at HIS COMING
    be not of the NIGHT……………………WRATH on that day.
    this is a ONE TIME EVENT…………….
    SO BE LOOKING and praying always that you be counted
    worthy to escape …….
    JESUS said that. SO DO THAT amen.
    I LOVE YOU ALL………………………
    LIFT up HANDS without wrath and doubting and PRAISE HIS NAME.
    GRACE…………………TIS A GIFT…………..
    A GIFT……………………………………A GIFT………….
    lest ANY MAN FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD, lest any root of bitterness spring up………………THIS is in BIBLE TOO.
    KEEP all affections above………
    this life………………………pff……………like a vapour
    ETERNITY……………..WHO can measure that………..
    CHOOSE ANYTHING ELSE……………….death.
    NO OTHER WAY……………no other plan of salvation
    no other men trying to FINISH what they claim JESUS didnt do at cross……………thems liars………..
    WHEN JESUS SAID ………………..IT IS DONE………..
    WE just filll up the sufferings of CHRIST
    TILL HE COME BACK…………………..AMEN……..
    NOW THAT outta make lambs leap high and be joyful.
    JESUS the ONLY savoir, only name where by we may be saved.
    SON of GOD……………………BLESSED be the LAMB
    who was slain…………..
    AND SOON RETURNS as KING of KINGS……………..amen.
    SING peoples………………….dont hold back
    SING…………….and praise the LORD.

  115. I don’t believe in the existence of extra-terrestrial beings…

    I believe in the Lord, the existence of angels, demons, the devil and human beings
    so now we KNOW……….
    any who are NOT OF CHRIST……………..are of the devil.
    thus they are controlled of satan………..just as we all were ……
    TILL GRACE…………………………….
    So…………….anything staged………………..tis of men
    who are unawares that satan is working through them
    to bring about ARMEGEDDON.
    we dont know all the specifics……….
    BUT TRUST IN JESUS……………………..and abide faithful in HIM
    till the last utter breath………….and GREAT shall the reward be.
    BE BLESSED andrew.

  116. Intercessor Apr 26th 2013

    Marie, I’m praying for you.

    When I read your post I saw the picture of you holding on to crumbs… because you’re so hungry. It is a fearful thing to let them go, risking having nothing. But the truth is that God will satisfy you with your loaf of bread when you do.

    It is fearful to even consider making a move to come off of anti-depressants. The devil is attacking you with lies that you’re a failure, and that you will never do it.

    The truth is that your God’s strength is made perfect in your weakness, and His grace is sufficient for you. All He requires of you is one step at a time. You can’t sort everything out, but He can as you hold onto His hand and walk one step at a time.

    I would counsel you to pray out loud in words against the battle going on in your mind. “I choose to believe it’s not hopeless. I choose to believe there IS hope for me. I choose to believe my God is my portion and His grace IS sufficient for me. I can’t do it. But You can Jesus.”

    Marie, I would also counsel you to make a step. All Peter had to do in the boat, was make a move… There’s no way he could walk on water. What seems possible? One pill a week? One on Sunday? Can you give that to the Lord, for your healing?

    He won’t leave you disappointed. He loves you so very much, and won’t leave you alone.

    Thinking of you.

  117. For Steve re discernment and the gift of discerning of spirits.

    The Bible makes it clear that, even in the church’s infancy, there were many false prophets and teachers who claimed to speak God’s words with God’s authority. Many Christians were drawn in by their words and were led astray by them. Because of this Scripture contains many exhortations for Christians to test all teaching. John writes, “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

    False prophets love to use deceptive language. For the purpose of unmasking these prophets the Lord provides the gift of spiritual discernment and enables his church to turn from lying spirits to the Spirit of Truth.” The gift of discernment is the Spirit’s special defence against the lies that come from lying spirits. Satan communicates in words that are inconsistent with Scripture and which convey information we know to be false. Satan and his spirits can be discerned in appearance. Satan invades the Christian community with teachers and leaders who counterfeit the truth.

    It can be said that the gift of discernment is given to tell if the other gifts are of the Holy Spirit, or if they are just natural imitations, or if they are demonic counterfeits.

    We can all seek God for this discernment gift and freely receive it. Then we can all exercise it 24/7, wherever we go, whoever we listen to, whatever we read or watch. Sometimes the discernment is instant and obvious, sometimes we continue wait on God for the answer and He leads us to a Scripture, answers us with a still small voice or by some other means. Sometimes discernment is easy –you easily recognise the spirits of false religions (Buddhism, Islam, New Age practices, etc) but often deeper discernment is needed to see beyond the evil in men’s hearts and their evil intentions. HOWEVER , we have the Holy Spirit at all times as our helper so we never need to doubt ourselves or feel we are unable to discern errors.

    God is with you Steve.

  118. Father, in Jesus Name, I break the spirit of fear off of Jonathan and his family, his father, mother and any brothers and sisters which he may have…

    He will not live under fear any longer…

    Jesus died to save him and his family from fear…

    That we might serve him without fear all the days of our lives is what Your word says about Jesus’ mission in coming to earth…

    This is true – I have experienced this – freedom from fear…

    In Christ…

    I give right now, everything I have been given by the Lord and even more and I give it to Jonathan and his entire family…

    Bless them all Lord – and set them free from all fear…

    Let them revere You in Your Peace – envelope them with Your Peace – in Jesus Name I pray and for Your Glory Lord, in Jesus Name, Amen

  119. I well remember when my oldest daughter was in labour with her second son…

    I was over in Manila and my wife rang me urgently from Napier saying that our oldest daughter had had her second son but had severe complications and the doctors were rushing her into theatre to operate…

    I took a break (it was in the afternoon Manila time) and went for a walk praying in tongues and the Lord said to me, “She will live”…

    I rang my wife back and told her…

    She rang our daughters partner – who didn’t know the Lord at that time – and he believed and went into the operating theatre and told our daughter…

    Later on after getting back to New Zealand my daughter told me that she was vomiting up blood and honestly believed that she would die – she had severe blood clotting – or something like that…

    But when the doctors investigated her there was nothing wrong with her…

    Praise God…

    You are Awesome Jesus…

    And You can do anything…

    When You speak – demons tremble…

  120. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17-18 KJV)

    This is our birthright as children of God as we are submitted to the Lord…

    Not striving but submitted to the Lord for Him to work His work through us…

    As deceptions increase – if that is our perception of what is happening – let our faith increase all the more…

    We are children of light…

    We are not in the darkness…

    Let us shine like lights in the world…

    “Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of the LORD has risen upon you. “For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you. (Isaiah 60:1-2 NASB)

  121. fabakary ( James )

    You said above to Roger;
    “Roger I am almost incline more to this believe ; and you are fearing people like us may receive a false Christ because of such a believe?”


    fabakary , when you follow Lord Jesus Christ, and brings forth as much as you say you receive by His spirit , yet find yourself at odds with the written word that comes from His Spirit regarding things yet to come, you need to question yourself as to, Why is this ?

    and ask yourself,

    Is all that I’m hearing really coming from Lord Jesus Christ ?

    Do I have a mixture ? am I hearing from different spirits at different times ? all coming as Christ ?

    Or am I hearing from a false Christ ?

  122. >>Where did Christ go to worship and receive annointing? Did He seek it from gatherings of men? No…He went to be alone with His Father
    Kitty – your comment on 25th April – what a brilliant comment – this says it all – wonderful, wise words

  123. Intercessor Apr 26th 2013

    I need to defend fabakary.

    If he had come on here saying that a donkey told him something, you would have all accused him of being deluded.

    Numbers 22:28 ‘The Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to make you beat me these three times?”

    Fabakary, I experience supernatural happenings and know also that our God is not limited to electricity or technology. I think He gives us all according to our need. And even though I am not looking for signs or wonders, He nevertheless pours them out anyway.

    Take heart and hide them in your heart as Mary did after the angel appeared to her.

    Great suffering and persecution is coming upon the western church… They will experience these supernatural happenings too.

    God bless you.

  124. I believe the greatest supernatural happening we could ever experience is knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we have been set free by Christ… 🙂

    The more the Lord has increased my understand of just how set free I am the stronger my faith becomes…

    And everything – truly everything – becomes easier and easier – His yoke is easy and His burden is light…

    I’m not saying that life gets easier in terms of the hardships we have to undergo but at least you see those coming more and more and more from the outside and not going round and round and round in circles within yourself introspecting yourself to death…

    Love in the Lord,


  125. my understanding… 🙂

  126. But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. (Psalm 22:3 KJV)

  127. fabakary Apr 26th 2013

    Thank you intercessor for the input, that was the main purpose this experience was share , for the purpose to remind Gods people like we all do at times that in all circumstances even when all natural connections are disconnected ; We can get a supernatural connection through the infinite riches of Christ; if our focus in on Christ and Christ only.
    Amen, Andrew J Horton .
    Kevin we are brothers in in Christ; as far as I am concern it is of God if you did not agree or think I am in deception Pray for me, there is power in prayer.Have

  128. watchful Apr 26th 2013

    Amen Andrew to those insightful keys to discernment. To me also it boils down to testing the spirits by THE Spirit, because discernment is of the Holy Spirit. And carrying our cross, being on that strait way, the highway of holiness where nothing evil can dwell.

    Well the Lord is testing hearts, and for the believer/follower there is no condemnation, but that He seeks to cleanse and purify us of whatever is in our hearts that draws us from pure devotion to Him. It’s so encouraging to hear of those who have been led to come out of the false and are being renewed in the simplicity of Christ, as I was also. As He has said, come out of her my people and be separate…let us go to Him outside the camp, because it is outside the camp where He is found. And it is paradoxically in the dry arid desert place where we will refresh us with His streams and rivers. It can be a scary perplexing time, we are so used to associating our faith with church-going, but as we seek the Lord and not man, and trust in His ability to be our Shepherd, He will faithfully shepherd us!

  129. watchful Apr 26th 2013

    Concerning the Vatican’s Lucifer telescope (the devil even has boldness to announce himself in these last days, mocking the foolish sons of men)….I do believe the Lord will reveal more to us that we have need of as time goes on….this morning I was reflecting that the revealing of “that wicked” is tied to the restrainer being taken away……..we are seeing more manifestations of evil, but also could it mean that there will be nothing to hinder the devil himself from MANIFESTING visibly as an angel of light?….and a carnal unspiritual world will be deceived into believing he is an alien..? Sometimes the Lord in sovereign wisdom gives men exactly what their idolatrous hearts are seeking! All the more reason for His counsel to have our eyes and affections above fixed on the UNSEEN!

  130. There are still many things which need to occur on earth before the man of sin can be revealed watchful… 🙂

  131. Things which should acquire our attention much more than his revealing should… 🙂

  132. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    ‘My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge …’ Hosea 4:6

    On so many occasions on JBTV and RS people cry out for discernment, more discernment. It’s the ‘grail,’ if I may use that term here, of our church times. Yet, He who is above all has already made provision.

    Hosea 4:1, ‘nor knowledge of God in the land.’ That’s the knowledge we absolutely need, not necessarily scholarship, but personal, intimate and deep rooted knowledge of God. He gives this by personal revelation. His revelation of Himself is supported with the Bible. We grow into this revelation, it’s not a garment, it’s within us, part of the fabric of our being. This knowledge transforms our being into the likeness of Christ who knew His Father but intimately.

    Are we sufficiently hungry for this knowledge of God, or do we seek a supermarket religion, pre-cooked, pre-wrapped and take it off the shelves

    Is it significant, after the Bible was available in our vernacular languages the gift of Discernment seems to have abated? Why? Perhaps because we now have a complete canon of Scripture, and the Reformation has set us free to pray apart from priests, intermediaries?

    I wonder.

    By all means pray for the gift of discernment, but pure knowledge of God, as He counselled in Hosea, is much to be desired.

  133. Amen Richard, Experiential knowledge of God through submission to Him is our only protection… 🙂

  134. Preacher Apr 26th 2013

    Hi Andrew.
    The problem is wide spread & growing in this country ( England ).
    The worrying thing I find is the lack of discernment among leaders & Pastors, who either don’t care, or in ignorance support the spread of these errors.
    Despite being challenged about leadership appointments being unsuitable, One Pastor ignored the comments of a number of the
    congregation & allowed an avid follower of the ‘Emergent Church’
    to speak regularly from the stage. Also the same congregation
    had another leader who follows the New Mystics, (John Crowder
    & David Vaughan) who had just returned from a so called ‘Sloshfest’
    to stagger in an inebriated way at the front & deliver a slurred
    message which amounted to man being so wonderful that God
    ‘romances’ us.
    Many of the congregation trust leaders to deliver the truth & are
    not aware of the dangers involved. The problem is does one walk away & leave them to this deception, or enlighten them & cause
    a possible split in the Church.
    Personally, I, like yourself read & follow the tried & tested men of
    God from years gone by, who provide untold riches & blessings.
    As well as some more contemporary established writers but I’m still being watchful & wary as I know that things change & some have,
    & will be deceived.
    May the Lord Bless you in all you are doing.

  135. Zululander Apr 26th 2013

    Andrew H, Please don’t be offended & don’t reply if you don’t want to.
    What church do you belong to? I don’t mean the universal body of Christ.. How long have you been with them?
    Andrew S answered very concisely & completely regarding aliens.
    We wrestle not against flesh & blood.
    The problem is more the source of the deception than the messenger

  136. kelling Apr 26th 2013

    These spirits and beings are legions of Satan and those who open themselves and others to them become victims. There is a article on the web written by Jason Guenther called, Fallen Watchers, this is a heavy article and not for the light minded. It gives a history of satan and the fallen angles since time began. Please pray before you read this article, it’s depth is very deep and well documented as I have checked the sources he has used for research and they seem right on. May you wake up to your calling and warn others of the deception that is out there. Much peace in Jesus. Dr. David.

  137. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    The fact this matter has arisen for debate on this forum exemplifies two things.

    First: knowledge of God as given us in Hosea 4:1 & 4:6 is sadly lacking. If it were not then deception on this scale would not arise and therefore not be a matter for debate.

    Second: The people who are being deceived are likely ‘standing on the Bible,’ but without inner understanding, a revelation of God through Christ Jesus, having just scholarship, or, and this is most likely, they are filled with righteousnesses of church, and it’s procedures, but know not Christ as their Saviour. There’s nothing wrong with Christian scholarship, if it leads to Christ.Draw your own conclusions here.

    Of course samples of both groups will be thrill seekers, chasing the latest ‘move of the Spirit,’ and there are snake oil salesmen a-plenty out there to deliver their magic for a price.

    There always has been and will be deception in the Body. The problem today is not the source of deception, nor the messenger; the problem is a failure on the part of organised churches to encourage a knowledge of God rather than a perfunctory grasp of their own ideologies and emphases. It has built several generations of dependents but not God dependent people. To that extent, if not more, such organised churches stand condemned in the light of this deception scandal.

    Suggested remedy and daily dosage: Seek ye first the kingdom of Heaven … and Proverbs 4:20 – 27. Dosage, three times a day, and keep away from pastors!

  138. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Of course, we could open up the subject of holiness, being set apart and living solely for Christ Jesus. Perhaps in the direct sense of the Cohanim of Leviticus this is not now possible but, to paraphrase my last post, the more we move towards our God, into His embracing arms, then the less sad little deceptions will say to us.

  139. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    1 John 4:1-2
    1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Notice that this scripture says ‘every SPIRIT that does not confess…’

    So how do we know what a spirit is confessing, since the person themselves may be able to confess Jesus as coming in the flesh.

  140. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Donald, neither the Apostles nor many of those who came into new life in Christ were distracted by false prophets. 1 John 4:2 gives the key here, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God.

    This is the point I’m making, knowledge of God, personal, interior and given of Him. If the Apostles and others had not had this knowledge of God, this knowledge of Christ Jesus, they too would have succumbed to lying spirits.

    No amount of Bible study in isolation from Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit will render us anything other than scholars. The understandings of scholarship are easily morphed into other things, but that certain knowledge of God cannot change, for He, the Almighty, is the author and finisher of it. He fulfils His own words. It is not a garment, as are many things, but an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    Evidence of this millenium so far is many claim to be in dwelt by the Holy Spirit, yet few display the accepted, Biblical evidence.

  141. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Richard Savage…
    I totally agree with you, that a personal relationship with Jesus is vital to our discernment.
    But… my question is this,
    How do we test a spirit?
    I believe even Todd Bently could verbally express that Jesus is come in the flesh, but that doesn’t mean the spirit behind him is of God.
    How do we test a spirit, since we cannot test the person simply by asking them to confess Jesus as come in the flesh?

  142. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Donald, that’s a very good question, and, if I might say so, vital to this day and age. I have only this answer:

    Face to face, in a meeting or on a broadcast, if one has indeed a knowledge of God, an indwelling of the Holy Spirit then the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirits is what we must rely upon.

    There are clever fraudulent spirits running wild. There are equally men and women well trained in the Bible who set out to deceive us, they are dominated by such unclean spirits. Religious channels are full of them! Our only defence is the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirits. John Wesley proclaimed up and down England, the inward witness, the inward witness. Pentecostals used to speak loudly of the witness of the spirit.

    Please understand Donald, I’m not propagating another gospel here. No! I’m saying, if we rely solely on the Bible, and man’s interpretation of it, for our knowledge of God, and our defence against deceivers, then we WILL succumb. When we have what Hosea describes as a ‘knowledge of God,’ then, if we take heed to the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit, we are safe.

    As a testimony, if you like. Morris Cerullo was in London twenty odd years ago, at Earls Court Arena. Then, I knew nothing of him. A news broadcast showed a clip and my spirit froze within me. It wasn’t what he said or did … it was purely the inward witness. Subsequently that inward witness has prove correct, wouldn’t you agree?

  143. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    1 John 4:3
    3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God;…

    Many people do not realize that the next verse changes a bit. The KJV adds ‘is come in the flesh’, but it is not there.

    The word ‘confess’ simply means ‘to speak the same thing’,

    Verse 3 simply says that if a spirit, or we might say the overall ministry of a person, does not adhere to the Word of God, but twists in to their own will, then the spirit behind them is not of God, because it is not ‘confessing’, or speaking the same Word as Jesus.

  144. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Yes, and yes again.

    I am not decrying Bible scholarship, by no means. But reliance on that alone means an academic study of the Bible which may lead to all sorts of errors. Hence the Tubingen School in Germany in the nineteenth century and Bultmann who so criticised the Bible he lost sight of the God of the Bible. It became a dead letter to him and those who followed him.

    We are talking about the same thing, the same path Donald. Whether we say the inward witness or an intellectual conflict with our knowledge of the Bible, it amounts to the same thing.

    I’m saying, with or without a profound knowledge of the Bible, and we must say many do not have this, or indeed a Bible, then the Holy Spirit intervenes with a spiritual witness. We ignore that at our peril.

    If a preacher is preaching something other than may be found in the canon of Scripture, then he, and sometimes these days she, is a false teacher. If we don’t have a profound knowledge of the Bible we may not know that and be lead astray. However, the Holy Spirit steps in.

  145. Col 18 Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit, (AMP)


  146. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Richard, I agree, with one thing to add. There are very few who actually do not have a Bible in their own language these days. These folk, the Holy Spirit can and will lead, but for those of us who do have the written Word to study, it is a responsibility to study and know what God has given us. Then, together with the knowledge of the Word, the Holy Spirit can confirm to our spirit what is truth and what is error.
    The Word and the Spirit go together. (I know this is what we are both saying)

  147. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    This is a major problem with many these days. Many do not study the Word, even though they might have half a dozen Bibles in their home. This shows a lack of commitment to God, and therefore even the Spirit cannot lead them because they do have the relationship to know the voice of the Spirit. This is why many are led astray by these false teachers.

  148. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    This small saying I found a few weeks ago fits so aptly with the church these days.

    The object of faith is no longer Christ, but our self-esteem;
    The goal of faith is no longer holiness, but our happiness;
    The source of faith is no longer the scriptures, but our experiences!

  149. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Donald, you are absolutely correct. We are saying the same thing, viewed from different angles.

    I heartily agree with your second post too!

    Again, I do not decry Bible study, by no means. I do it myself, regularly, but it is a means to an end. It is not the end in itself. Glorifying Christ Jesus, the chief work of the Holy Spirit, is the end.

    The danger I’ve seen so many times is worship of the Bible itself (I couldn’t spell the correct word!!). Setting the written word above the Living Word. In my limited understanding they are in unison and balance, requiring first an earnest of the Holy Spirit and then knowledge of the Bible.

  150. Kelling; the Book of Enoch, left out of the Bible by the counsel of Constantine…totally led by man at the beginnings of the world organized church of man, also discusses these “fallen angels” and their disobedience, and interference with man, giving man knowledge, including writing that God did not want them to have.

    Perhaps without the knowledge of writting we would have relied on God and developed that inner discernment that He placed within us to a much higher degree….as a previous poster stated. However, God, as usual, already had a way around this also, causing the written Word to be placed in the Bible. (Which if you will remember if you know your history, the Vatican resisted letting the people have…outlawing it as a matter of fact!) Man, or satan, cannot get around God’s Completion no matter how hard they try!

    The warnings concerning the Latter Day were given so that the latter day Believer would not be ignorant. But, yet, most still are, because of the opinion given to them that they will be raptured out before any of this begins. Are we so selfish, that even if this is true (which I doubt….as scripture to me seems to clearly fall into place when using the one which indicates the last trump (7th) is when we are changed.) shouldn’t we be totally clear on what our Father told us so we can teach those that will be here, even if we are not, so they won’t be decieved? Is that not our purpose on this earth to love others enough to make a difference? Do we keep God’s word hidden beneath a rock, because that part of the word we feel doesn’t apply to us?

    Fifth and Sixth trumpet stuff, having sounded:

    (5th trumpet) Rev. 9: 4-5 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. (Is this the “indignation that passes over”…which God said if we are righteous we may be hidden? Is part of being hidden trusting the Lord enough to be prepared to help others during this 5 months, should also the economy collapse during the same time?)

    Rev. 9: 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (satan!)

    Rev. 9: 14-15 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (To me this is a location pointer as to what area this may occur in.)And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    Why would good angels be bound (such as we know satan is bound from the Mellinnium)? Nope, bad angels that God previously bound and unbinds to use over in the middle east because I think the trumpets mostly occur in that area from the read of it. Very much could be the angels that the Vatican watches for, under the mistaken impression that they are going to bring peace to that horrible uprising that occurs during the first four trumpets (which sound like from the read, wars of man which occur in one region because of the exact 1/3rd damage done to various things. (my plausable opinion).

    So, the 5th and 6th trumpets introduce satan, and the fallen angels to earth which were bound until this time. Wow, the world (that part NOT in the middle east) wonders after them…bringing peace, and who knows what else. What a perfect time for them to also claim to be our returning savior and than shortly thereafter demanding worship?

    This is the period where I believe if the last trump theory is correct for the rapture, that Saints need to be STRONG into the Word of God, knowning it intimately, not relying on what the world of man (Vatican and all others houses of the Lord that the thief has entered?) will be telling them. They must not be deceived, they must endure til the end when the 7th trump announces the returning King of Kings, Our LAMB and LORD….who before He returns transforms the living Believer in an instant.

    It is this period above that I believe occurs in the last 7 years of the 70 that the angel told Daniel about concerning the latter day Jerusalem in Chapter 9 . Odd that it is also a Chapter 9 in Revelations that explains a couple of events that will happen during the time perioed revealed to Daniel.

    Dan 11:45 And he (the King that came from the North) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. (Why has the Vatican placed it’s telescope where they can watch the North Skies?)

    Dan 12:1-4 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (before the Wrath of the Vials starts at the 7th trump….my opinion of “that time”…which is also referred elsewhere as the greatest woe.) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written IN THE BOOK. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (This verse sure sounds like the rapture and first resurrection to me.) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    Dan 12:6-And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

    Dan 12:7 “……that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he (satan) shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.” (this indicates to me that satan defeats the belief in Christ for those that are still in the world…as would ET’s, Demons, satan, however they manifest back to earth, telling their lies, especially if a World religion were supporting the lies. Turning people against the Christians who hold to the Bible Belief, the True Belief of Jesus Christ, who has not yet come back to earth during this time of deception. We endure to the end, not falling for the fake.

    Dan 12:10-13 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice (Belief in Jesus Christ..my opinion) shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up (belief in the manifested satan as savior and the false prophet that is pointing to him….my opinion), there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (I take this to mean that on the 1,290th day of the 2,300 days that the “sanctuary” [Belief and Rest in Jesus Christ….my opinion] is trodden under foot. Dan 8: 11-14 ) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (The 1,335th day…45 days later….awesome of God to appoint only 45 days for His People to endure without succumbing to satan’s lies! Which one of us cannot do that! You cannot even starve to death in 45 days.) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

  151. Donald N; you asked: But… my question is this,
    How do we test a spirit?

    Well we could look to see if the leader of the flock is living in a mansion much elevated over those the flock lives in on average? We could look to see if their women are dressed like whores with makeup galore and sparkly jewelry, false eyelashes that could bat away flies?

    Who wants those things?

  152. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Richard, I did a short study on this subject a few weeks ago that I believe you would enjoy. If there is a way to send it to you I would like your comments on it.

  153. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Amen Kitty

  154. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Donald, I have a large website under construction for out of church Christians. I have an email address there:
    [email protected]

    I look forward to seeing your study. Thank you.

  155. Odd, I just noticed something that I have here to fore not seen.

    Rev. 9: 14-15 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (To me this is a location pointer as to what area this may occur in.)And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

    One year, one month, one day, one hour.

    If all the trumpets sound about the same time, as they did when the walls of Jericho fell…is this the length of time that the trumpet woe lasts?


    Is this the length of time between the 6th trumpet and the 7th beginning to sound? With the 45 days until the 1,335th day being placed at the end of this period?

    Or, is this the length of time it takes to scatter the power of the Holy People?

    God didn’t give us these timelines to be ignored. If we are aware of them, and teach them to others….even if we are not here, when they see the markers for the timelines begin, and the timelines prove to be accurate….they will believe the True God, not the false one.

  156. Barry Schmidt Apr 26th 2013

    Their are many posts on this article claiming that true Spirit filledChristians cannot be decieved . This in itself I deception my friends. The TRUTH IS there are at Lear 30 direct warnings in the New Testament given to the apostles, elders and leaders Gods born people people AGINST BEING DECIVED.

    How foolish and ignorant of Gods Holy Bible to say Spirit Filled believers cannot be decieved. Why warn us over 30 times if we cannot be DECEIVED???

  157. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Barry, I believe they get their thinking from

    Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    But I agree with you. This verse doesn’t say they cannot be deceived, but rather I see it as a warning that we should make sure we are not complacent and allow ourselves to be deceived. It is the believer’s responsibility to make sure we don’t become deceived.

  158. Andrew H, Please don’t be offended & don’t reply if you don’t want to.
    What church do you belong to? I don’t mean the universal body of Christ.. How long have you been with them?

    Hi Zululander,

    I belong to a local congregation here in Christchurch, New Zealand…

    I have known the senior leaders of this local congregation for many years and love them deeply…

    There is no requirement to tithe or sign membership papers in our local congregation…

    We give freely as the Lord leads us…

    We meet in a local school hall…

    We believe in the Grace of God…

    We believe in and experience the Manifest Presence of God in worship…

    The word is preached in boldness and joy…

    There are regular testimonies from congregation members of miracles which the Lord is performing on their behalf…

    We pray for one another…

    We believe in the Blood of Jesus…

    There is love amongst us…

    I love these people and see them growing to be more and more and more like Jesus…

    I know that the Lord wants me to be there – I’ve found where I belong… 🙂

    That’s as far as I feel to go…

    Love in the Lord,


  159. You are very fortunate to have such a church gathering Andrew Horton. I like that you do not have to sign any church papers!

  160. Tis the living WORD within us, the HOLY SPIRIT
    within us………………that will teach us the SPIRIT of GODS LAW
    in all , and will open our eyes to the written word
    giving it LIFE to build and edify us within.
    and KITTY also was onto something
    LOOK at how these leaders live.
    DO they live PLAIN like CHRIST DiD………….
    or do they HEAP
    do the women live plain or do they abound in clothes
    jewels and makeup
    all of which…………………paul warned women NOT TO DO
    and men not to do.
    VERY SIMPLE. DO THEY LIVE , PUTTING the welfare of the flock and the poor above themselves.
    OR DO they esteem themselves better places and use
    the church to build their empire………


  162. The fact that we are so focused on the devil and seem to be talking about him so much shows me that our focus is not on the Lord – who does true miracles, signs and wonders… 🙂

    Something to ponder on…

    The other thought which came to me last night as I was praying was “red herrings”…

    There are many “interesting” things out there but is it helping others to come to know the Lord more?

    Food for thought…

    So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.” Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey away. When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers. (Acts 1:6-14 NASB)

  163. Zululander Apr 26th 2013

    Thanks Andrew. It’s so good to get such a report of a Church with all the criticism of pastors & churches. Unfortunately most of it is true.
    I have a sister in Aukland. SHe is a priest in an ANglican church.or Church of England. We don’t really have a close relationship.
    I’m a “protesting” charismatic……..what with all the nonsense they/we get up to, but i’m Blessed
    Bless you.

  164. Amen Zululander, Praise the Lord, There have been many people praying for Christchurch and we seem to be experiencing in our local congregation the answer to a number of those prayers but we are hungry for more – I can honestly say that I’ve never been in a local congregation environment where the hunger is so strong and so wide spread – those who are there are there because they want to be there and because they are hungry, Pray for us that we will fulfil all that God has for us in our city, Love in the Lord, Andrew

  165. I will share a little more below the following verses about what bad fruit can look like;

    Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
    Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
    Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
    Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
    Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
    Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.


    There is the outward fruit that some have touched on already, along with the inward fruit that shows the attitude and motive of a person as the following verses point to ;

    Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
    Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
    Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

    and this verse

    Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

    Expanding on the fruit that shows the attitude and motive of a person , look for ;

    Defensiveness, being offended, wanting recognition and validation, seeking glory for ourselves.

    Look for those who use the Name of Jesus for their own gain as evidence with the prosperity preaching , along with any twisting of blessings that imply they are material for this life .

    Nearly all the false teachers I have seen were self promoting and defensive, and pointed people towards themselves and their spiritual experiences.

    True servants of our risen Lord Jesus Christ , do not use His name for their own gain !

    They point people towards Lord Jesus Christ for His glory not theirs.

    and this is evidenced by then taking up their cross daily and following after Lord Jesus Christ in Spirit and truth.

  166. The fruit that the old foe uses often is being offended and playing the poor me victim card, as this will always lead to control over those who are drawn in.

    Being offended along with defensiveness are tolerated now days , when in truth anyone who truly knows Lord Jesus Christ will be secure in Him and will rejoice in their sufferings as they know they have taken hold of the real prize, which is ;

    Lord Jesus Christ

    If we know Him and He knows us , we have no need to seek recognition or validation from others, or to be offended by what others may say.

  167. If we know Him and He knows us , we have no need to seek recognition or validation from others, or to be offended by what others may say.

    I agree Kevin, If you remember back to the previous thread I asked Intercessor a very straight question – similar to what Jesus asked Peter (I.e. “Do you love Me more than these?”) – and Intercessor responded in a very humble way which showed a heart of submission towards the Lord…

    I use that as an example…

    There are others who I’ve asked fairly straight questions to who have responded, as you say, by playing “the victim card” or in “accusation”… 🙂

    We all need to be asked straight questions…

    Straight after Peter said something amazing Jesus turned and rebuked Satan for speaking through him, i.e. one moment he said something which “flesh and blood” didn’t reveal to him (the Father did) and the next something which Satan said through him…

    As iron sharpens iron…

    And if the person doesn’t know the Lord that will become evident as the questioning (not interrogation :-)) continues…

    Sometimes questions must be asked…

    Love in the Lord,


  168. Andrew J. Horton,

    Jesus was talking to the Disciples that were with Him, before He ascended. He rightly told them it was not for them to know times or epochs, because it was not to be in their time…and their major task was to spread the New Covenant. Jesus rightly pointed them to the Holy Spirit that He was soon sending all Believers, Which would guide all Believers to what they and we need to know within the Written Word and within the Life of their times.

    Also, this forum is just a small part of our lifes, and the subjects that seem to be predominant here from time to time in no way reflect what focus is predominant in our total daily life.

    I would also say that we need to know the total LORD, not just one part of Him to the exclusion of all the other parts He has revealed. We do not know which part of Him will be the part that attracks a new Believer unto Him. One of the major mistakes that the organized churches have made is to focus only on a small part of the Bible Word.

    If our minds are in Christ, our total thoughts are a constant prayer to Him….fulfilling His desire that we be in constant prayer.

  169. DonaldN; Who are the “very elect”, those which that scripture states cannot be deceived?

  170. Barry Schmidt Apr 26th 2013

    Daisy- My heart goes out to you! I don’t know YOUR fear and anxiety but I know I recieved that same spirit if fear and anxiety from those connected with that counterfiet Charismatic Movement.

    Here are some practical things that helped me during the 13 years I spent imprisoned by this spirit if fear:
    1. It won’t stay forever- God is sovereign over your life and will in little while completely deliver you – have hope – this too shall pass!
    2. Stay close to Jesus – use the fear as an invitation into Jesus Presence daily. That spirit of fear hates the presence of Jesus and God will use this as a time to get tighter with Jesus to learn if Him and His truth.
    3. Stay reading the Word instead of other forms if media – your fear will dissapate and shrink the more you read the Word. “Great peace have they which love Thy Word and nothing shall make them afraid”
    4. Don’t be afraid to tell people you do not want them to pray over you it Kay hands in you politely but don’t become paranoid of everyone or anything supernatural. Remember their is only a counterfeit BECAUSE THERE IS THE AUTHENTIC.
    5. The spirit if fear is not purely from false charismatic defilement- fear was likely a large part of your life before that. “Perfect love casts out fear”
    Open yourself to Gods love BOTH directly from Gods Spirit AS WELL AS from Gods people . It is relationships that you were made afraid but it is in relationships that Gods love will come to you to cast fear out as well.
    6 Avoid isolating yourself from the church . The wolf always first separates then devours! Pray God leads you to a healthy church and He will do it. Do not listen to those on this site who have followed the wolf and separated themselves from the local church.
    Love in Jesus
    Barry Schmidt

  171. Andrew, understanding what you have said here is the Key;

    ” Straight after Peter said something amazing Jesus turned and rebuked Satan for speaking through him, i.e. one moment he said something which “flesh and blood” didn’t reveal to him (the Father did) and the next something which Satan said through him…”

    For this is the area that spirit filled believers can be deceived , when they receive something from our Lord Jesus Christ , and the old foe comes immediately and adds something else that changes the meaning of what our Lord Jesus Christ gave us.

    Being offended and getting defensive is the main way the old foe works to prevent people from discerning what he has slipped in on top of what we receive from the Holy Spirit at times.

  172. 2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

  173. I would also state that God decides who the “very elect” are. It is not the decision of man, or the opinion of man that makes that call.

    The fact that the qualifier adjective “very” was placed in front of the word “elect”, leads me to believe that the “very elect” are somewhat positioned as a more minority group, which not all qualify to be in….including me.

    The sentence could have been stated without using the adjective “very”.

    I would suggest that God caused it to be worded that way to encourage and motivate all Believers to strive always to learn as much as they can in His Word, and to strive their very best at all times….not being satisfied to remain babies all their lives with others taking care of them spiritually as they go about meeting their wordly needs.

    I know when I get spiritually lazy in my learning, it motivates me to continue on running as best I can until the race is announced OVER, by God, not by me, or any other man!

    Many Believers stumble and make mistakes, and are deceived, but the Holy Spirit drags them through. I truly believe that God is capable of bringing the true Believer in Christ out from behind the pope of the Catholic church, or any other man who claims to be their authority….if their heart is truly set on the LAMB, and if they understand that He was enough, and it does not take any other salvation to bring them through….or any other understanding.

    I believe the “very elect” are those at the end times who are specifically sealed so they can speak against the deception when it comes. Much like the Two Witnesses that will be over in Jerusalem.

  174. So unless we are willing to always test the spirits and to surrender all we receive under the authority of Lord Jesus Christ , we will end up being misled at times.

    Lord Jesus Christ , His Holy Spirit , along with any angels He may send with messages , never mind being asked or challenged as to whether they really belong to Lord Jesus Christ.

    They never get defensive or offended when asked , and they never say what do you think.

    They always rejoice fully affirm that yes they belong to and serve Lord Jesus Christ.

  175. Barry Schmidt Apr 26th 2013

    Donald – I agree that while the elect will not be deceived in the ultimate sense- deceived into renouncing and apostatizing from Jesus altogether – the elect can be partly deceived and be dragged along to follow false teachers for a season.

    The passage you quote in Mtt ( often referred to as the Olivet Discourse) was spoken privately to the 12 apostles .
    “As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. ” (Matthew 24:3, 4 NASB)

    If the elect cannot be deceived in any way then why did Jesus so solomnmy warn His elect apostles to “BLEPO PLANEO ” ( Be very careful that no one deceives you”???
    I was both an undergraduate and a post graduate seminary student, an elder, a long time leader with a solid relationship with God , foiled with the Spirit of God, moving in true gifts , faithful in prayer and not a novice – YET I WAS DECEIVED by this false movement for 13 years!

    Anyone who trusts in themselves and their own discernment WILL BE TESTED! Don’t think they will escape. None if us us beyond deception – SAVE FOR THE GRACE Of GOD THERE GO ALL OF US!!!

  176. The false Christ often manifests in a very internal way focusing on personal spiritual experiences with out recognizing the external ruling reigning Lord Jesus Christ.

    For of we don’t really know Lord Jesus Christ in His external authority , who do we surrender ourselves to ?

    By what power do we receive discernment ? or the ability to test the spirits that come in His name ?

    Knowing Lord Jesus Christ internally as He dwells inside of us, along with knowing Him externally as He rules over us and all of creation , is to know Him in truth .

    Praise our glorious risen Lord Jesus Christ !

    He reigns over us

    He lives within us

    He is our rock

    Our true foundation

    Praise you Lord Jesus Christ !

  177. Richard Savage Apr 26th 2013

    Barry, ‘Anyone who trusts in themselves and their own discernment WILL BE TESTED! Don’t think they will escape. None if us us beyond deception – SAVE FOR THE GRACE Of GOD THERE GO ALL OF US!!!

    So very true. Trust only in Christ, the way, the truth and the life, the author and finisher of our faith.

  178. Barry Schmidt Apr 26th 2013

    Through my 13 year prison sentence the one thing God showed me that IS THE ROOT OF ALL SPIRITUAL DECEPTION IS FOUND IN THUS VERSE:

    that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10 NASB)

    All spiritual deception is rooted in a refusal to accept and believe the simple truth and message ” that saves”.

    But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; (Romans 3:21, 22, 24 NASB)

    This is ” the truth that we must love and so be saved”

    All deception starts with rejecting the gospel message in its simplicity.
    All these false charismatic and Pentecostal teachers have SELF EFFORT SALVATION AND WORKS SANCTIFICATION AT THEIR CORE!

    You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? (Galatians 3:1-3, 5 NASB)

    All spirits if false power ” bewitch” people on this ONE CORE TRUTH!

  179. Barry Schmidt Apr 26th 2013

    God clearly showed me – after He let me out if prison – that I had in my heart rejected the simple gospel if salvation and sanctification by faith alone PLUS NOTHING!!
    I became enamored by all those authors who seemed so spiritual in my eyes who taught that simple faith in Jesus ALONE was not enough to get saved, sanctified and receiver the fullness and power if the Spirit.
    In my heart I wanted TO DO MORE THAN SIMPLY TRUST JESUS.

    That was my undoing!
    That is why I am do dogmatic and come out against anyone who teaches the lie that you can be saved or sanctified by your performance or your behavior.
    That false religious teaching IS THE ROOT OF ALL SPIRITUAL DECEPTION

  180. Barry , that is a great passage you have quoted ;

    again !

    2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
    2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
    2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,

  181. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    the term ‘very elect’ can be confusing. It doesn’t mean some are common elect and other are very elect.
    this comes from the King James translation.
    The Young’s Literal translation makes it a bit more understandable.
    it says,
    “…so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen.”
    In other words, it simply means believers, chosen by God. We can all be led astray if we don’t keep a close watch.

  182. Barry, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN.

    BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.

    It ain’t plus anything – “our” best deeds are but filthy rags.

    Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, “and believe”

    “that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, AND BELIEVE”

    Just as Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted to him as rightousness.


  183. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Ken1 and Barry–
    There are two different kinds of believing in the Lord. There is believing he exists, that he came to earth and died for our sins, and rose again.
    This is foundational believing.
    There is also Believing Him! Which means take Him at His word. When he says something, we are to do it.
    James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    The works that we do, don’t establish our salvation, but if Jesus says to do something and we refuse to obey, then do we really believe him?
    There must be work with our faith. Works of obedience.

  184. See you all in a few days, we’re taking a few days of family holiday… 🙂

  185. DonaldN, i see where you are coming from and understand that, bless you.

    I see it this way – when we first BELIEVE, we are justified, saved, born again (a done deal so to speak) This is justification.

    This is the most important decision in anyones life BUT never the less it is just the begining.

    At this point we should move on into sactification which i believe from scripture is realising/understanding, that “we” have been buried with Christ (our old man “ME” has been buried) And that we are now a new creature in Christ, “IF” we choose to walk in the Spirit (And that is our ONLY part in it, CHOICE) Then HE can produce those good works in “me” AND those good works are of Him, not me. I hope that all makes sense.

    Blessings my friend.

  186. Andrew J, i pray you have a good time with your family on your few days of.

    Blessings my friend.

  187. Thanks for the clarification on “very elect” Donald N.

  188. Rom 8:30 says it very well –

    Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    Praise the Lord, we will be gloryified soooooooooooooon –

    1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

    What Gloryious hope we have –

    Jesus is coming sooooooooooooooooon

    Blessings everyone.

  189. DonaldN Apr 26th 2013

    Can you please give me an example of what a good work would be that Jesus would perform in you.
    I am just wondering if maybe we are talking about different things.

  190. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Have a lovely holiday with your family, AJH.

  191. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    Yes Donald we are in agreement.
    I find it helps to get a handle on the relationship between salvation and sanctification by faith vs by works in this way.

    When we are NOT trusting Christ we then are trusting our works. In this (false) way works become THE MEANS of our salvation and our sanctification.

    But on the other hand when we TRUST JESUS ALONE PLUS NOTHING of our works (biblical faith) the works become THE FRUIT of our faith.

    There is an enormous difference. In the former works are the MEANS and in the latter works are the FRUIT.

  192. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    Works as a means glorifies man but works as fruit glorifies God alone.

  193. Amen Barry, and works as a means self promotes and seeks glory from man, where as works as fruit never seeks its reward here on earth.

  194. TO all PRAISE THE LORD………………
    and DO all as unto HIM.
    LOVE THE LORD with all thy heart, soul strength
    mind, breath , praise, and
    do all out of pure devotion unto HIM.
    No outer or inner reconginiton from men.
    JUST do out of pure devotion unto HE who has called us
    and do more for others, and place their welfare above your own.
    VERY SIMPLE and very PLAIN.
    NO veils of confusion…………JUST SIMPLE words
    of GRACE. a child can grasp.
    DIG deep all brethern of the LORD
    and PRAISE HIM at all times
    and always be your brothers keeper, doing what is best for the other. PRAISE THE LORD.
    amen. comfort the feeble minded………….encourage the brethren
    but heavenly minded………..not minding earthly things or earthly treasures………….BUT SIMPLEY awainting the reward at the end of our faith………….and doing all unto the GLORY of GOD……..that in all things done………GOD is PRAISED.
    HOW SIMPLE…………………..amen.

  195. and DIG DEEP IN HOLY SCRIPS and read and read again
    keeping GOOD remebrance of what the apostels warned of
    and the remembrance they LEFT behind ………..though
    they are gone……….YET THEIR WORDS and works LIVE ON
    in their letters, gosples, holy scrips………….all examples for our learning……….
    and one day…………..ON THAT DAY……………….
    the TRUMPET shall sound…………………….and amen
    GLORFIED new bodies……………..as those who sleep arise
    and we who are still here…………..are changed in a instant………
    from one of yous……………REMINDING THE LAMBS
    what its all ABOUT. the END REWARD OF OUR FAITH. amen.
    thems wonderful GOOD words………………..and the HOPE
    that is still yet unseen………….YET GREATLY HOPED FOR……..
    GREAT persecutions are coming………..
    but fear not……………
    WE HAVE HOPE…………………….to die is gain
    to be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD.
    man can only do as he is allowed to do………..
    ONLY GOD can cast soul into HELL………
    and iN CHRIST………………………..MERCY rejoices against JUDGEMENT………………….
    so ………………do as HE SAID…………..and do not do what he said NOT TO DO.
    JUST LIVE ………………and do all as unto GOD amen.

  196. AM

    The problem is we don’t want to come to the place that we have to examine everything that people say and do under a christian microscope. There is a balance to everything, even discernment.

    It’s one thing to have discernment as this article states, and its good to know as Christians. If we will learn to let the Holy Spirit lead us in every situation then we have nothing to fear.

    On the other hand, I think its possible that some people carry discernment to a whole new level. There everyone becomes suspicious of one another.

    We hide behind screen names, afraid to answer simple questions about where we attend church, don’t want anyone to know where we live, etc. etc. Why? well someone may be a deceiver or satanist or worse yet a tare. I guess this is what some think.

    This is no more then fear personified.

    I was surprised that someone would write a book saying, Christians should not say anything using the word “church” in their conversation.

    Finding the balance only comes by daily walking in the Spirit.


  197. crucify the flesh daily…………..
    take heed unto thyself and the doctrine
    for in doing so………………..yes
    ye shall both save thyself and them that hear thee.
    for all doctrine is for correction, for instruction in righteous living.
    teaching us and giving us examples on what to do and not to do.
    I love you all…………………….
    and keep diggin in those scrips and follow CHRIST
    his words keep and do , hear and do………..
    and great is the reward at the end of our faith.
    Be blessed all lambs
    and by all means………………………REJOICE IN THE LORD
    and again i say REJOICE………………

    JOY IN THE LORD…………………amen.
    FOR the JOY of the LORD is our strenght……….

  199. I wanted to add one more thing about this discussion on aliens out there in this universe.

    I think this is just another deception created by the devil to keep people in the world “bound by a false hope”.

    Science fiction promotes this idea that there may be some advanced race who will come and deliver mankind with their technology. They will heal all diseases, stop wars, give longer life through their technology.

    Science fiction is a fantasy that some put their hopes in so they do not have to pursue this idea that there may be a God that requires them to repent of their sins.

    Its a false hope and a grand deception of the devil in this end time.

    Many today use the Bible to try and prove there are aliens out there. Ezekiel’s wheel, etc.

    I actually had a man tell me that the Bible showed how to build a radio transmitter that would help us contact these aliens.

    I asked him to show me where in the Bible was this located. He actually thumbed through it and tried to find these secret passages, he handed me back the Bible and said, well its in there some place. 🙂

    Sure it is. 🙂

    Anyway I think all of this stuff about aliens out in the universe is just another deception to keep men bound, so they don’t have to approach the idea that there may be a God who created this world and universe.


  200. Zululander Apr 27th 2013

    There is sometimes confusion between what Barry is saying regarding salvation which is 100% correct & what Randall is saying which is 100% correct. They are not in opposition.
    Salvation, settled & sealed in my embracing the completed work of the cross, & our life & growth in him that Randall describes,
    faith without works is dead.

  201. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Discernment is of the Holy Spirit, as we abide in Him….if it is a Christian microscope so to speak, and full of suspicion, then it must be of the flesh. We are not always discerning what is not of God, on the contrary often what we may discern is HIS Spirit.

  202. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass. (1 Thessalonians 5:23, 24 NASB)

    Where is our trust placed? In God as this verse clearly encourages? Or in ourselves and OUR discernment, OUR ability, OUR experience etc etc? Study the Word to show yourselves approved. Seek to know God and do not be foolish but wise . But MOST OF ALL TRUST GOD SUPREMELY AND KEEP YOUR EYES ON JESUS.

    AW Tozer used to say, ” you can learn more about the devil by looking directly at Jesus and simply being aware of Satan in your peripheral vision than you can by always watching for the devil.”

  203. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Amen Barry, we are to be as children whose angels are always beholding the Father’s face, then it is easier to spot what is off-kilter from the corner of our eye so to speak….was just thinking about that very thing this morning.

    Our trust is in Him, because even though we have spiritual gifts, of which discernment is one, they are not an exact science, nor are we infallible. For that reason we compare notes with each other, just like it says that a prophet who gives a word lets the other prophets take a look at it. Our dependence is on God and not on our gifts per se, He is the only one who can lead us safely home, and bring glory to Himself, and that’s why we will all lay our crowns at HIS feet in gratitude and praise!

  204. OneBody Apr 27th 2013


    In these days of confused situations.
    In these nights of a restless remorse,
    When the heart and the soul of the nation,
    lay wounded and cold as a corpse.
    From the grave of the innocent Adam,
    comes a song bringing joy to the sad.
    Oh your cry has been heard and the ransom,
    has been paid up in full, Be Ye Glad.

    Oh, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad,
    Every debt that you ever had
    Has been paid up in full by the grace of the Lord,
    Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad.

    From the dungeon a rumor is stirring.
    You have heard it again and again.
    But this time the cell keys are turning,
    and outside there are faces of friends.
    And though your body lay weary from wasting,
    and your eyes show the sorrow they’ve had.
    Oh the love that your heart is now tasting
    has opened the gate, Be Ye Glad.

    Oh, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad,
    Every debt that you ever had
    Has been paid up in full by the grace of the Lord,
    Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad.

    So be like lights on the rim of the water,
    giving hope in a storm sea of night.
    Be a refuge amidst the slaughter,
    for these fugitives in their flight.
    For you are timeless and part of a puzzle.
    You are winsome and young as a lad.
    And there is no disease or no struggle,
    that can pull you from God, Be Ye Glad.

    Oh, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad,
    Every debt that you ever had
    Has been paid up in full by the grace of the Lord,
    Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad, Be Ye Glad.

    Words and Music by M.K.Blanchard
    YouTube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0XjvfecXdE

    © Gotz Music/Benson
    (860) 673-1032

  205. OneBody Apr 27th 2013

    This was very challenging to me. A woman was once asked, ‘If you knew the child in your keeping were Hitler, or his like, would you pull back and withhold your loving embraces?’

    What a question to ponder ?

    The response was, ‘No, I would love them all the more!’

    Her answer reminded me of an older quote (not exact)

    Love has a hem on it’s garnet,
    which trails in this world’s dirt and dust.
    It can reach past the sin to the sinner,
    and because it can, – it must! ~?

    Discernment may see, but if it isn’t motivated by 1Cor. 13, what does it profit at all? It too is a sounding brass – a tinkling cymbal, It profits nothing without loves responses..

    Very good posts here.

  206. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Gary B, it’s hard for me to believe there is actually a large group of intelligent scholarly Catholic men who are so heavily invested in their deception that they have a very expensive observatory on a mountain in Arizona looking for “a saviour” to come from outer space……..and yet that is exactly what they are doing. They actually named it the Lucifer Project. Couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw it! And if they are so deceived, then it follows the potential is there for others to be deceived in like manner, even the whole world, especially factoring in that the world (and church) is being groomed by New Age and occult. One possibility that might bear watching, from the corner of one eye. ; )

  207. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    One body: when you mentioned love being central to all discernment my spirit lept within me as this verse flashed across my mind:
    “I pray that your love would grow more and more SO THAT YOU WOULD DISCERN WHAT IS BEST”

    God is love, Jesus came to save us from sin which is a lack of love. We are no more subject to deception that when we are lacking love ( which is what sin is in essence) . The opposite is also true. When we are filled with God’s love through our Lord Jesus Christ we are MOST DICSERNING of evil and counterfeits.

    The reason the churches are so easily decided in this hour is because people are so loveless, selfish centred and lovers of themselves!

    Love is still the best antidote for deception. Not that fake worldly love but the live of God as described in I Cor 13- LOVE NEVER FAILS!

  208. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. (John 5:39, 40, 42 NASB)
    The reason the religious community failed to discern Jesus coming is RIGHT HERE! “Because you do not have the love of God in your hearts.”

    Beware of loveless “discernment”- It will ALWAYS cause you to strain out a gnat and swallow a camel

  209. How did this ‘discernment’ topic evolve into including aliens-as-saviors? IMO that’s a degenerative spiral! Better get back on track, consulting G-d’s WORD for enlightenment, HOPE, and inspiration to ‘walk by faith, not by sight’.

  210. OneBody Apr 27th 2013

    Barry, that’s the beauty of the Body. All have differing gifts from the Father. I sometimes think of the gifts as ‘the gears of the Spirit’. Unless love fuels them, they are present, yet really going nowhere. Thank God for His great mercy, and love toward us all. He didn’t just see all our sin and need, in love, he acted. Praise Him!

  211. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    Sorry I have to share this:
    1. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17 NASB)
    Truth can be had without grace but grace can never exist without truth. But Jesus is first of all full of grace and because of that He is qualified to be filled with truth.

    2. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, (Ephesians 4:14, 15 NASB)

    The church is protected from all deceitful scheming when she speaks (not merely truth ) BUT WHEN SHE SPEAKS THE TRUTH IN LOVE!

  212. OneBody Apr 27th 2013

    Barry, For years I thought myself “discerning”. As God dealt with my heart, He revealed my motivation was often the fleshly man. At times anger, bitterness, gossip, peer pressure (a group addiction/fear of men), allows people to “discern” what they want to see in another.
    Any sin will distort what we see. Jesus Christ is void of all sin, seeing us (all) clearly. A lack of God’s love ruled supreme over my discernment, Unless He rules our discernment, it will be ruled by another. Our enemy is very tricky to defeat even our most noble intentions. We MUST search our hearts/ guarding them from sin in all areas. God Bless.

  213. Barry Schmidt Apr 27th 2013

    Good word Onebody .
    I wonder if true 5 fold ministers all have to watch for their flesh in their gifting-
    True apostles can build their own little kingdoms if in the flesh.
    True prophets can do nothing but find fault with everything and everyone when in their flesh.
    True evangelists can become con men sales people in the flesh.
    True pastors can control everyone and everyone around them when in the flesh.
    True teachers can find a speck of untruth in every teaching if in the flesh.

    Only when each walk in love do they avoid these things.

  214. Moll…close your eyes, cover your ears and bury your head….and tell others what to do.

    The Vatican is probably the most powerful organized religion ran by man, and we are approaching those events that God revealed to John in Revelation. The Vatican has forced it’s religion on others in the past via the crusades, killing other Christians because their doctrine and dogma was different than theirs. We are approaching a time when we need to be sure we have discernment and not just understandings learned from those we hang with…including the church dogmas.

    The Vatican is looking for coming ET’s….and from what has been discovered….they are open to the ET’s being morally superior to man.

    Being a christian does not mean we bury our heads in the sand, and hide from what is going on in the world. We are to be a part of it and be the salt of the world. Christians who bury their heads in the sand have lost their effectiveness in the world, and as long as we are in this world we are expected to have an affect on it. We are not to bury our “talent” in the ground, we are to cause it to grow, and that growing is not limited to spreading the word, but we have been told to WHATCH!

  215. OneBody; the Hitler child is not a simple answer. We are not to believe in future seeing, so if we were seeing into the future, we would have to be suspicious as to whether it was satan, or God that was showing you the future regarding this child.

    If the child was going around and torturing animals and laughing from their pain, trying to stab his parents when ever he could, and there was no parental fault that could be placed on them…..I would say for sure that child if it continued in its behavior as it got older, would be brought to the village and put to death. We are not to love evil, we are to hate it. There are several scriptures where God says, “If you don’t hate evil, you do not love Me.”

    Love often makes hard choices for the safety of the community. Death is not an end all, and many times it is better to pass such a person on to God to let God deal with him. Latter day people, have perverted love, turning it into extreme tolerance of all evil, and that is not LOVE. According to our human laws we cannot no longer do what God requires of such people, we medicate them, or just let them run loose spreading the pain they cause.

    I guarantee that there will be true Love in the Mellinnium, no longer perverted by the weakness of humans who do not have the strength to do what is proper. I have read all the laws of behavior in the old Testament, and I see perfect commonsense, and applied love in those laws. Most people today, including those in the church would not like them, because they teach responsibility. Something that is totally lacking in our latter day world.

    God has not changed, the Old Testament God is the New Testament God.

  216. If any christian is constantly making God over into their human image, instead of trying to conform to God’s image, that christian will never have discernment.

  217. a GOOD example of TRUE growth was seen in paul
    when men who had been LED OF THE SPIRIT
    were warning him that bounds awaited Him at
    Jerusalem. THE HOLY SPIRIT
    had warned these men. in turn they spoke to paul
    as they had been told of the spirit that bounds and afflictions
    awaited paul in Jerusalem.
    BUT paul said…………………why do you weep and mean to break mine heart………………..that he was indeed willing to go to jerusalem and face death , that the gosple be spread,
    that GOD be glorified.
    Even after a severe stoning which they thought he was dead
    and left off……………..he rose up
    and was so determined to spread the gosple
    not a month later……………..THE NEXT DAY.
    FOR paul would also say in a letter
    THAT CHRIST BE MAGNIFIED…….not paul, BUT CHRIST BE magnified in my body whether by life for death.
    THIS IS THE MIND we must grow up into.
    FOR even when warned of by his desiples
    about going back into JERUSLAME
    JESUS said…………………are there not twelve hours in a day
    that HE must go back…………….
    the heart of the gosple IS the MAGNIFYING OF GOD in all things
    and the furthreance of the gosple that souls be saved.
    TABLE men, phillip, stephen……………..both went out
    and preached the gosple
    as well as waited tables for the ministry of the poor.
    I say we all pray in one accord
    FOR this true pure heart……………………the SUPPLY of the SPIRIT
    to be poured from on high uppon us
    to be about GODS WILL AT ALL TIMES.
    THIS is the life…………….so many lack
    and are often hurting and longing for
    inside, and when LIVED……………………..the JOY of HIS PEACE
    abounds. Imagine the LIFE
    where all came together, had no interest in this world, nor its
    things, but instead…………..HAD ALL LOVE of TRUTH
    and each other………………..and those who had abundance
    sold to give unto he who lacks…………
    THAT would be the abundant LIFE so many now lack.
    THIS is not something that is hard to do
    or even a struggle to do………..
    this is simply something……..that if WE DID from a pure heart
    with all hopes and affections above
    would be that abundant LIFE CHRIST SPOKE OF
    and HIS apostels spoke of and lived
    and the desciples did……………..
    IF a man was KILLED for holding back part of the price of the land
    HOW can any expect to have true HOPE
    when this part of the GOSPLE is not in them to live.
    GOD has not changed……………..
    the doctrine has not changed.
    the lifestyle has not changed.
    MAN has changed and altered it………….
    COME YE OUT FROM AMONG false teachres…………
    GO back to the first love where all was simply
    about GOD , his exaltation in all things
    HIS TRUTH sought out from a pure heart,
    and LOVE will abound and grow from the heart.

  218. GaryB, that man was probably thinking that the Ark of the Covenant was a radio or communication device. He obviously was not in to the Bible, but had just heard something that satisfied where he wanted to be. I have heard others who do not want to know that there is a God, use that as an example of an ET communication device.

    GaryB, are you saying that human beings are so very special that God didn’t make any other beings? I don’t think we are that special. God is an infinite Creator, every Expanding, and not limited.

    In fact, it is a possibility that this creation that we are may be the only one that “fell”. We may have many brothers and sisters that are awaiting, and hopeing that we are redeemed. And, now that Jesus has provided the way…..they may very well some day embrace us back into the Family of God.

    I am so reminded of how humans once thought that the sun revolved around the world, as they were so important….the entire universe revolved around them.

  219. new age doctrines has completely ruined many of the churches.
    INSTEAD of us living to SERVE
    they go about calling on GOD to serve their earthly desires……….
    GOD is the one to be served.
    JESUS came not to be served…………….but to serve
    THUS…………………..the servant cannot be above his master
    BUT it is simply GOOD if we be LIKE OUR MASTER.
    THE NAME above all names………..
    the creator of all that ever was and is……….
    TOOK upon him the form of a simple servant
    to do all unto the GLORY of the Father.
    that in all things the Father be glorified.
    IF the one who is above all………………created all,
    came to be lowliest of all…………
    WHAT on earth is wrong with any of us who
    spects to be served or to have it easy in this life
    IF JESUS stepped out of RICHES in HEAVEN
    and became POOR for our sakes, that many be RICH.
    WHY on earth are we minding earthly things
    and expecting to have a simple cares and pleasures life
    minding earthly things.
    even when he told peter he was to suffer
    peter said not so………….for men desire the easy path,
    JESUS rebuked him as satan and said
    YE MIND the things that be oF MEN,
    thats right…………….EARTHLY CARES and PLEASURES
    WE have a calling………………..and it aint OF THIS WORLD
    GO BACK to the FIRST LOVE.

  220. GaryB, you said: “We hide behind screen names, afraid to answer simple questions about where we attend church, don’t want anyone to know where we live, etc. etc. Why? well someone may be a deceiver or satanist or worse yet a tare. I guess this is what some think.”
    Being a Christian does not mean we toss our good sense behind the door! God is not to be used like a MAGIC CHARM!

    It would be foolish to put our trust in man, especially since the Bible teaches us that we should never do that. God does not protect the foolish or the fool (those He knows will remain that way). We are expected to use commonsense and wisdom in our daily lives. Because, in our society, world wide, we allow the evil men to live amongst us, we must be aware of that…especially if we are charged to protect others under our care.

  221. GaryB, concerning your belief that aliens from the universe is just another deception created by the devil to keep people in the world “bound by a false hope……have you read the ancient past down history of other nations, such as India and others…histories that have been in existence for thousands of years? Histories that describe huge flying things in the sky that shoot down fire, destroying ancient cities, cities who have been dug up with a high radioactive count. Flying things who these ancient people assumed were gods and gave them names?

    Could these possibly be real deceptions from satan, those who follow satan? If we don’t have the facts to disprove something, we should not take it out of the equation, but just set it aside until further information is brought to us.

    No one can become wise if they toss ideas aside that don’t fit into their exposures.

    When we have been told by God’s word that such things don’t exist….than we can toss that thought aside.

  222. Kitty
    Spock is smiling down at you. 🙂


  223. Kitty

    There is no secret code hidden in my post. 🙂

    Thanks for keeping me informed though. 🙂


  224. Kitty again,

    Sorry I read your posts from the bottom up.

    I’m just rattling along like everyone else. Think of the simplest meaning you can come up with and that is what I was trying to say. 🙂

    P.S. Don’t believe every book you read out there.


  225. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Bless you Kitty, I understand how Moll feels, it is a disturbing subject to talk about, even more disturbing that there are those who believe in it. They would rather believe in anything, anything, rather than bend the knee to the one true Living God! So then maybe in His sovereign wisdom He will give the world what they desire…………in order to show them where it leads, paving the way for salvation of the world, I believe….because, eventually every knee WILL bow.

    Not to dwell on it, just to be awake and watchful because we need to discern what the enemy is up to, but as I was reminded through a wise friend, to submit it all to the Lord and don’t carry the burden of disturbing things by ourselves. We will think on whatsoever is lovely and of good report and knowing that in the end, God will have His way!

  226. Barry Schmidt; you quoted scripture: “For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17 NASB) and than wrote: :Truth can be had without grace but grace can never exist without truth. But Jesus is first of all full of grace and because of that He is qualified to be filled with truth.”
    I am curious, I hope you realize that the Law of Moses is also part of the Truth, for God does not lie, nor does He change.

    Jesus, being full of Grace was not the qualifier for Him also to be filled with Truth.

    He is God, and He is Truth, and it is the Truth which gives Him Grace, because He is KING! He is who He is! He did come to teach Mercy and Grace, and to dispense it, and make it possible by His death sacrifce as the LAMB. Had He not also been the LAMB sacrifice, Mercy and Grace would not have trumped the Law through repentence. But it did not do away with the law, but allowed us to overcome the law, because that is His Will and that is what we also want.

    Repentence is the only way to come to the recognition that we need Jesus’s Work on the Cross, and need Him as our Lord.

    Nothing happens in this process, and the process is not genuine (in my opinion) unless it does start with the individual person realizing his worthlessness, (that they are dead) and they raise their arms to Christ to be taken into Him and made whole. The person, first has to recognize that they are broken, and that they need help. This is where true growth comes.

    I truly believe that if a person has not set aside his or her self worth, they are not in a place to truly accept Jesus Christ as their Lord. They have not recognized that they need a Savior.

    They have approached the cross for their gain, or for human acceptance, to be part of the group for social reasons, or to perform on the stage…..and that approach will not allow the person to grow in the LORD….because they are still in their self. Yes, sometimes people approach the church for those reasons and later understand that they are broken and than accept the Lord genuinely. But many don’t…they just grow in themselves….and continuously pat themselves on the back for doing such a good job, and continue to conform to the expectations of their group, instead of the expectations of God, not even realizing that there might be a difference! 😉

  227. Thank you for the laugh, Gary B.! 😉

    I don’t believe any of the books written by men, accept the Word of the Lord in the BIBLE. I just file the info away to see if it is proven at a later date by other evidence or by my LORD.

  228. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Amen, Randall, one hundred and ten percent !! That’s where our focus should be, that is the portion that has been given to us, and let the Lord take care of the universe, as He is the only one who can.

    Kitty, regarding taking the evil-possessed one to the village to be killed, I understand the wisdom in that now as far as the old testament goes……….BUT I will say that since we now thankfully have authority and power through Christ to destroy the works of the enemy, killing is not necessary any longer. We wrestle not against flesh and blood….it’s not by might, not by power, but by His Spirit.

  229. Yes, Watchful; wise words as usual,but I would say that if the household is sleeping,we should disturb them if we think we smell smoke! 😉
    Dwell on these things:
    HOSEA 2:18=And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. 19=And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20=I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. 21=And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; 22=And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.

    I wonder what God meant when He told Hosea…”I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;”

    It is a good thing, we have been redeemed!

  230. Watchful; If that were completely so, than why is God going to kill many as they gather against Jerusalem at the end of the Mellinnium?

  231. Beautiful Randell Lowrey;

    “new age doctrines has completely ruined many of the churches.
    INSTEAD of us living to SERVE
    they go about calling on GOD to serve their earthly desires……….
    GOD is the one to be served.
    JESUS came not to be served…………….but to serve
    YET HE IS MASTER………..”

  232. Roger (NZ) Apr 27th 2013

    I find it interesting that as science continues to make ‘discoveries’, their findings point to intelligent design of the universe. For example DNA is a code or language, could not have been formed from random chance, and scientists now continue to have their ‘big bang’ beliefs challenged by their discoveries of intelligent design.

    The more the universe is explored, it would seem that science now understands that from ‘out there’ looking back at our solar system – the universe spreads out from this point. We know that our earth moves around the sun, but it would now seem that the universe is centered on our solar system.

    We all know that it is possible for God to create as many other worlds as He chooses, and also life forms. However, we either believe that the Bible is truth or not – there is no inbetween.

    We are told in Genesis that God made man in His image, and for His pleasure. He created the earth for man to inhabit, and so that He could walk with man.

    We also read in Revelation that He creates a new Heaven and new Earth, that new Jerusalem descends from Heaven to the new Earth, and that God will ‘tabernacle’ (live) with man.

    I find it incredibly humbling to understand that God, who created everything that we know and understand – created man for His pleasure, so that He may live with man, – and… He so loves His created mankind, that He came to Earth, still 100% God, yet in a body that is 100% human flesh, blood and bone, lived with man, and sacrified Himself, His blood for the redemption of man – so that we might – finally – fellowship with Him the way that He always intended and planned.

    I can understand that others who believe our final residence is in Heaven – may – also (perhaps) wonder that other life, from other planets, may also be there with God.

    Yet when I understand from scripture that God descends from Heaven to live with those of mankind who are His, (believing in Him, saved through the blood of Lord Jesus, redeemed and resurrected into immortal bodies) then no, I cannot agree..

    It isn’t that man is ‘important’ as such – it is however that man was created by God for His pleasure and for fellowship – that does make us very special in His eyes.

    So special (in His eyes) that He came to earth, God in human fleshly form, to live with and die for – His creation.

    In His love,

  233. Kitty

    I thought you seemed fairly educated. To be honest I have nothing to file away for the future concerning what is being said about Aliens. Science fiction is just “fiction”.

    It’s written by unregenerates who are looking for another way out so they do not have to believe in a God. It would appear to me that believing in aliens out there in the universe is more logical then darwins theory.

    I agree though the Bible is all I need as well. This whole article is about discernment.


  234. Richard Savage Apr 27th 2013

    I hate to break into an intellectual love-fest here, but just a thought. Haven’t we enough problems here on earth with simple mankind not to need to fill our time with speculations and unfounded superstitions about little green men.

    There’s several billion people out there, (on earth, that is), I stopped counting when just sixteen years old, who have no knowledge of Christ and Him crucified. They are alien to Christ. That fact doesn’t require discernment, doesn’t require fifty years of college Bible study, but just a soul, willing to step out in faith and speak a word for Him who died for us.

    Shouldn’t our work be either spreading the gospel, providing for that spread or taking care of our own corner?

    Opinions welcomed.

  235. Roger (NZ) Apr 27th 2013

    Richard – you are right, and that is the truth.. 🙂

  236. watchful Apr 27th 2013

    Kitty, I’m sorry but I just can’t reconcile that with turning the other cheek, resisting not an evil person, and praying for our enemies..

    God bless you Richard, each part of the body just doing it’s part, I hope, by the grace of God, and every part is needed.

  237. Jda016 Apr 27th 2013

    Roger it is interesting how you were talking about science proving more and more that God created all things.

    I remember several years ago, I read an article about something the Hubble telescope discovered.

    Basically scientists and physicists all believed that the universe was expanding outward but that it was slowing down and would eventually come back in on itself creating another “big bang.”

    Well the Hubble telescope proved that the universe was in fact expanding, but rather than slowing down, it was speeding up! This came as an amazing shock to the scientific world and basically slapped the “big bang” theory right in the face!

    God is so amazing!

  238. Roger (NZ) Apr 28th 2013

    Jda016 – Amen, God is so amazing 🙂

    There is a documentary presentation, available on one or more dvd’s, titled: “The Heavens declare His glory”, or similar – where information from both the Hubble, and (I think) a European telescope, has been collected and shared by scientists, many of whom are now Christian – they can no longer ignore the truth they have ‘discovered’. 😀

    Rom 1 says: “..Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:..”

    ..and the title of the presentation is taken from Psalm 19: “..The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork…”

  239. GaryB; God did not mean for man to ignore the world that he was placed in. God said be in the world, but not of the world. That means we are to educate ourselves to what is going on in the world and stay informed. If we don’t we cannot be the salt of the world.

    Christians allowed the world to be as it is now, so they have a responsibility to know it so they can witness to people in the world….instead of having the reputation of being ignorant. Christians have put their head in the sand, because the task seems to big for them. Let’s just give it to God, let’s just pray about it, than we can have peace and not do anything. That is what I see in so many Christians.

    So, what will happen, because you think it is all science fiction, GaryB, is that when and if they do come, you will be deceived and think they are from God.

  240. Discernment is very important, but it is useless if you are ignorant and blind to what is going on in the world, directed by satan. Discernment was given by the Holy Spirit so we could separate good from evil.

    If a citizen of this world discards his responsibility to this world and only focuses on his own little life and those who are his, and doesn’t keep watch for all things approaching, political, economic, educational, religious, medical, legal, entertainment (tv, movies, internet, sports), and science awareness (all now having a great influence on your children, and on everyone under the age of 60), his discernment was a gift wasted on him by God, because he didn’t bring it to focus on any of those things which are happening in the world. Communism, socialism, globalism, the green movement, the worship of man is happening right in front of your noses, and satan is behind it.

    Christians allowed it to happen, sometimes encouraging the spread of man worship. We are to rest in the Lord one day a week, but for the rest of it we are to be out in the world making a difference with our discerning influence, speaking up and standing up, not being afraid, or staying in our comfort zone.

    We have failed God, that is why He brings His Mellinnial Kingdom to earth.

  241. Roger, God the Father is Spirit, He is everywhere at the same time. He comes to us in the person of Jesus Christ, they both sit on the same throne in the New Earth.

  242. Kitty,

    That is nonsense to think that way. It shows a lack of discernment on your part.

    You have a very strange view of the scriptures.

    I won’t discuss this any further, as I perceive you do not listen to what God is saying, but follow many voices.


  243. Ecclesiastes 1:8
    All things are full of labor;
    Man cannot express it.
    The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
    Nor the ear filled with hearing.

    9 That which has been is what will be,
    That which is done is what will be done,
    And there is nothing new under the sun.

    10 Is there anything of which it may be said,
    “See, this is new”?
    It has already been in ancient times before us.

  244. GaryB; What were those ancient Indian and Chinese texts describing thousands of years ago? Are you saying these writtings do not exist, just because you don’t know about them? Huge flying things shooting down fire? Just answer that question. Recorded in a time way before our modern world. I am going to take a guess that you are not educated in that area and are not familiar with them. What on earth would be the motivation for those ancient people to make up something that they absolutely had no awareness of????

    These ancient peoples were not familiar with Darwin’s theory, nor were they rejecting your God…they didn’t know Him. They were writting about things they observed, possibly fallen angels, and they decided that these things must surely be gods, because they were not like anything they had here to fore knew.

    Don’t call others uneducated because of your knowledge base….and the very, very limited view that this forum reveals, just because you are in disagreement….so much like a man of the world.

  245. Yes, GaryB; I don’t listen to what you are saying, Gary….because you are not God.

    Ecclesiastes 1:8-10 which you quoted is concerning that there is nothing new under God’s sun, nothing has happened according to God that will not happen again.

    The author of Ecclesiastes was familiar with the Enoch writtings, and Enoch was told by God that what was happening then would happen during the latter days.

  246. Roger (NZ) Apr 28th 2013

    Kitty – Yes, I understand that God the Father is Spirit, as is the Holy Spirit – Lord Jesus is now in His glorified body, the same as when He ascended into Heaven to sit beside His Father. At the same time, He also indwells those who are ‘born-again’, spiritually regenerated, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

    Scripture tells us that He will return in the same manner as He left (Acts 1), and Revelation 19 confirms that Lord Jesus is the one who will destroy the beast, kings of the earth and their armies who oppose Him, then He will reign, I believe from Jerusalem, for 1,000 years whilst satan is bound and cannot deceive man until he is released for a short while at the end – before his being cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already are from before Lord Jesus millenial reign.

    Scripture tells us that after this, when the new Earth and Heavens are created, and new Jerusalem descends from Heaven – there will be the throne of Lord God and the lamb (Lord Jesus), where we will see Him face to face, and He will dwell with man.

    I say this Kitty, not because I don’t believe you have read this in scripture – but just to clarify/share my own understanding and belief with you 🙂

    ..and you obviously replied as you did (to me) for a reason..? that I may have missed..? if so I apologise..

    Yes, man has failed God – and I believe that He knew man would ‘fail’. That man could not live by ‘laws’ alone – hence He knew the need for Jesus, the lamb of God, as the sacrifice for sin before creation.

    We are told that He knows the end from the beginning – therefore His millenial rule on earth is not because man has failed in ‘mans’ own strength – Almighty God had always planned the 1,000 year period, before the recreated Earth and Heavens.

    In His love,

  247. Watchful; yes we are to turn the other cheek to the personal injuries (slaps from another) that come to us, mostly to our egos…and not hold personal grudges against others. Yes, if someone steals our coat because they need it, we are to give him our other coat also, to help prevent them from sinning further.

    Yes we are to love those who have classified us as their enemies because we believe in Jesus Christ, or because they covet what we have. True love that envolves respectful action, not emotional rage, and not the touchy feely kind of love, which involves ignoring their actions and tolerating as acceptable their behavior so you will not have to say anything.

    When it says…”resist not an evil person”….it means step out of the way….don’t resist them….or you will be putting yourself in harms way, and causing more harm in the long run. It does not mean that the evil person is not to be dealt with at the appropriate time. If your country is conquered by an evil horde, it is best that you submit, or you will be bringing even more attention to yourself and harm to your family. It would be better to serve them….unless that service would require you to denounce your God. The martyrs who were following the Way of Jesus Christ did not resist the evil person.

  248. If you have the capability to stop a seriel killer and you do not do it, you will be responcible for every other person that the killer kills or tortures. If someone breaks into your house, and has killed one of your children, and is getting ready to kill your wife, and the rest of your children, and you have a gun in your pocket that he doesn’t know about, and you do not shoot him to stop or kill him, because you decide to turn the other cheek, to love him, to let God deal with him, you are the guilty person. God gave you the means to stop this evil….and you decided that your own “niceness” was more important than stopping evil.

    That is the perversion that satan has caused to the understanding of God’s Word, so that people will no longer know good from evil, or right from wrong.

    Even if it meant that I had to lose my salvation, I would not hesitate to stop the above evil killer, if I had the means….to keep him from harming any others.

  249. Kitty you say above ;

    “Even if it meant that I had to lose my salvation, I would not hesitate to stop the above evil killer, if I had the means….to keep him from harming any others.”

    My question to you Kitty is ;

    Why would you lose your salvation if you are acting in Gods will ?

  250. Kitty – You say this – “What were those ancient Indian and Chinese texts describing thousands of years ago? Are you saying these writtings do not exist, just because you don’t know about them?”

    And then you say you only read the Bible?????

    “I don’t believe any of the books written by men, accept the Word of the Lord in the BIBLE.”

    And you are harsh and sarcastic with other Believers …

    “Moll…close your eyes, cover your ears and bury your head….and tell others what to do.”

    The Vatican? What does the Vatican have to do with our Almighty God?

    “The Vatican is looking for coming ET’s….and from what has been discovered….they are open to the ET’s being morally superior to man.”

    Something’s wrong here …

  251. No Kitty – God is not so “cut and dried” that the blood of a serial killer is on our hands if we see his intentions and freeze in fear.

    This is not scriptural.

    If we are given a warning and we do not warn – then the blood of others is on our hands.

    But, your judgmental attitude is prideful and like cancer. Please see it for what it is …

  252. Zululander Apr 28th 2013

    Kitty, God had 2 sons, one created & another ONLY . begotten. He is OUR father. If there are aliens out there they are not sons & if He is our father He cannot be their father as well.
    So much of what you say is so good but this extra biblical stuff is I think distracting you & can become a snare of the devil to distract. he fact you keep bringing it up even in the last forum is significant. Maybe you are unintentionally “adding” it to your understanding of god and the bible.
    The need of the world I think is not righteous people but the Lord Jesus. Killing baddies serves no purpose. Who is doing worse, someone who deceives people into following another Christ or a murderer of Christians.

  253. Kitty
    You have many distorted views of the Bible.

    No one would ever want to lost their salvation for a devils hell. That is the oddest statement I have ever heard.

    Quote: Kitty wrote: Don’t call others uneducated because of your knowledge base….and the very, very limited view that this forum reveals, Quote………………….

    I do not believe this forum has a very very limited view as you say. Most here cling to the scriptures and denounce the world and its fantasy.

    I don’t understand why you are constantly belittling the Bible and mention all these false writings that existed thousands of years ago.

    I perceive you have an open door to the occult. Those ancient writings are from the pit of hell, a delusion to carry the gullible away to deeper deception.

    You mentioned these people from ancient times did not know of Darwinism or rejecting “your” God. Isn’t it “our” God?

    The ancient Chinese and Indian writings as well as the book of Enoch are of the occultic nature. These books are steeped in the teachings of satan himself.

    All ancient writings that endorse aliens and the mystical teachings of Babylon are a deception from the devil.

    If you endorse these writings you should seriously consider going through occult deliverance. Reading and agreeing with this stuff is an open door to the demonic realm.


  254. Kitty………………..
    I say this with a heavy heart
    but i am worried for you.
    Your reasonings are not based in TRUTH.
    You are bringing confusion to a simple message.
    JUST trust and obey. That simple.
    ONLY GOD has authorirty and the divine right
    to administir any punishment HE sees fit.
    WE are but sinners saved by Grace.
    WELCOME and graffted into the TREE, in CHRIST.
    JESUS who was far greater than us all
    NOT only said to not resisit any evil done against us,
    HE LIVED THAT, and is our example in all things.
    WE have sinned and fallen short
    JESUS never did.
    WE have NO RIGHT to take the life, of any.
    ONLY GOD who is righteous has any right to take life.
    YET IN CHRIST has given us life
    and life eternal if we abide faithful in CHRIST.
    NOT only did JESUS not defend himself
    HE warned PETER, when HIS OWN BETRAYERS had come for HIM…………….HE WHO LIVES by the SWORD dies by the SWORD.
    The evil of the jews was not laid upon STEPHEN
    nor did STEHPEN defend himself
    and NOT only did he NOT defend himself
    WE were all evil to the core
    YET……………..instead of the death we should have been given.
    GRACE came instead. SO
    instead of worrying over what case scenario justifies
    ones evil actions. SIMPLE OBEY JESUS words.
    THAT simple. I love you all. be blessed.

  255. NEW AGE is everywhere.
    IT focuses on alien beings as well.
    I suggest we all shut down that topic asap.
    DEAL with the evil of today………..
    stop wondering what may or may not come to pass.
    BUT simply focusing on the TRUTH of the doctrines
    of letters of well discerned and aged and who had LIVED out the TRUE LIFE of a christain.
    the apostels by the GRACE of GOD, wrote letters
    of GOOD TRUTH. STICK inthose
    these new books are quite heavily filtered with new age religion
    STAY only in BIBLE.
    KITTY……………..there are many being sent to sites
    to POISON the flock with new age reasonings etc.
    STAY far from this. I love you all.
    ANd am off to sleep . PRAISE the LORD.
    and sing a hym unto HIM…………….amen.

  256. What is going on here is this; the article is about five keys to discernment. Are we then doing what the article is saying to do?

    When someone is quoting scriptures and is about 90% right, but is weaving the occult into their message, the discernment should be kicking in about this time.

    I do not think we should be afraid of offending someone who is purposely bringing erroneous doctrines interwoven into some type of Biblical information. Were to warn and rebuke with all longsuffering this does not mean were to apologize and bow the knee to their deception because they might be offended.

    A heretic after the first or second admonition we’re to reject.

    8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

    We’re never to reject men who God has set into authority.

    For someone to say I never listen to men, but only God proves they have a deceptive nature. The Lord puts men over His flock for our own good.

    As Andrew stated; “Aliens are demon spirits.”

    There is a whole demonic realm, of principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    They come with their new age interpretations, promoting delusions, while quoting occultic masters.

    Don’t be stonewalled when someone quotes scriptures and then flatters you to death. There very well could be a demonic host behind the deception that is interwoven in their message.


  257. Randall,
    If someone is coming with deception to we shut it down and hide our eyes?

    Let’s act like its not there. Why do you think the Lord allows things to be exposed?

    When people get their emotional ties with individuals they then do not want to hear that this may be what we have been talking about all along.

    No body wants to see someone in delusion. But we can’t act like it does not exist.


  258. Zululander Apr 28th 2013

    Kitty its no mistake all what has been said here including all your posts exposing your beliefs.
    These last few posts are really from ” the horses mouth”. Please listen & respond.
    I really believe it’s Gods goodness leading you to a decision.
    Please do that. You are opening yourself to deception with this stuff. Gary n Co are right.
    Be Blessed

    You know I think the greatest problem for evolutionists is the problem they face if they reject their belief system. It will mean they have to give a proper response to the truth, which is CHrist, & they don’t want to do that.

  259. fabakary Apr 28th 2013

    Watchful wrote:
    “…but as I was reminded through a wise friend, to submit it all to the Lord and don’t carry the burden of disturbing things by ourselves. We will think on whatsoever is lovely and of good report and knowing that in the end, God will have His way! ”
    Amen watchful something the lord is laying in my heart this days. There is a scripture that says a dream that comes through the multitudes of taught etc They are mostly meaningless dreams and such a dream is indeed possible because of the human spirit. Such is dreaming by the human spirit.
    But also we have a great promise from the scripture to meditates on the words of scripture , lovely things ,good reports etc Since the scripture are words of the holy ghost , my understanding is if we think or mediate on the words of the holy spirit we we are more likely to have dreams that comes from the holy ghost and not out of our human spirits because if there are dreams that comes from the multitudes of taught , and we think and mediate on the words of the holy ghost we are very likely to receive spiritual enlightenment even through dreams. Taught it good to say this.

  260. Barry Schmidt Apr 28th 2013

    Kitty- when we trust supremely in God and in His Bible- as you claim to- we listen to and submit ourselves to Gods children who are trying to warn us and exhort us.

    When we love God – as you claim to- we express that love by submitting to Him in trust because love always trusts enough to submit to him. The same is true with our brothers and sisters in Christ . If we love them – as you claim to- we we submit to them in trust in love. “Whoever claims to love God must also love his brother. ”

    whoever claims to trust and submit to God but refuses to trust and submit to Gods child is a liar.

    The truth is you don’t trust anyone. You claim to love us but you don’t trust us. You cannot have love without trust .

    The truth is that you do not submit to anyone. You cannot claim to love those you do not submit to.

    You claim to be open minded and teachable. Yet it is my observation that every single time you are challenged in your opinions and dogmatic statements you become defensive and refuse to admit you are wrong.

    If you don’t humble yourself your pride will be your undoing.

    Pride and arrogance is as the sin of witchcraft and insubordination is as the sin of divination.

    I warned you about witchcraft earlier and you scoffed at that warning . Even if you never have indulged in witchcraft and new age teachings – your PRIDE IS AS THE SIN OF WITCHCRAFT IN GODS SIGHT.

    If you insist on hanging onto your prideful and unteachable spirit you might as well jus attend a seance . It is no different in Gods sight.

    Please humble yourself and listen and submit to what your brothers and sisters in Christ are saying to you here.

  261. fabakary Apr 28th 2013

    The reason is we have the Holy spirit inside us , so when we think over His words we are producing multitudes of taught of the words of the holy ghost unlike receiving dreams that comes because of thinking over natural taught from the human spirit , we are more likely to received dream from the Holy spirit.

  262. Barry Schmidt Apr 28th 2013

    From my limited experience I find dreams of God are like thoughts from God in that- even though they may be the still small thought or dream- they powerfully stand out like giants among the dwarfs.

    I have discovered its not about my ability to hear but Gods ability to speak SO I CAN HEAR.
    If I have to wonder whether a dream of thought is from God I assume its not. Gods thoughts and dreams along with every one of Gods communications are heard because God doesn’t speak a word and it not return to Jim void.

  263. I was making a point Kevin. That many are so afraid of losing their own gain, that they fear to even understand God’s law….yet alone act on it, if put in a position such as I described. There first thought is not for the victims, but for themselves and their own salvation.

    What I see happening in this latter time is so very sad. Both satan and man have diluted God….and made robots of the human mind.

    Fact: God does not, and never has changed His Will or Character, nor will He.

    If the above is true, and one agrees to the premise there, than they have to reconcile a few other things in the Bible.

    Is the God of the Old Testament the same God of the New Testament and the same God that will rule in the Mellinnium?

    Did Christ come to change the nature of God? Or, did He come to open the Door, or create the Doorway for us to enter into Him, since no man was able to live according to the Law that God set forth?

    If you dare to believe that the God of the Old Testament was not the same God of the New Testament, and that Jesus Christ came to replace the Old Testament God and His laws,…. than you have to start questioning whether the Bible was Divinely inspired.

    I have been around “churched” christians for much of my life, especially here in the midwest…..and what I see are people full of contradictions….except for those who did not toss out their common sense, and still believe in the Old Testament and the 10 Commandments.

    I do believe that they are the same God, and I think that most of you do not have a clue as to what the Mellinnium Rule will be like under the iron rod. The period of Grace and Mercy will be over in that man will no longer be the one deciding who gets grace and who gets mercy, and what the definitions are. They will be perfectly taught, and there will be no more grey areas.

    The Old Testament God and the New Testament Jesus Christ will be One sitting on the throne that rules over all Kingdoms of earth.

  264. fabakary Apr 28th 2013

    Sure Barry Holy spirit dreams are indeed thoughts from God , they can be symbolic , but something within will witness you this comes from God while dreams from the human spirit are either mealiness or there something empty in them.
    But I have found that in my case if my thoughts are on cares , if there is not rest within me, it is then my human spirit bring forth such meaningless dreams. But when am in rest in spirit, that mostly comes through prayer in faith , then as I mediates on His words , His ways , something lovely in the divine sense then with such thoughts it is like I open my spirit to received from the holy ghost. Our presents thoughts are very important in preparing ourselves to receives from God. When we are busy with things that are not Gods taught it is sometimes difficult for us to received from God and even when He speak it is sometime hard to understand what he is saying. Just some observation. They that Wait on God, in prayer , meditating over His words , his lovely holy things , will received Guidance and power from Him in a consistence way.

  265. Zulander; who created satan? Think on that. Who created the angels? Think on that. Who gave them free will? Who created mankind? God has not revealed to little mankind all that there is to know.

    I don’t know either, but I am not so arrogant that I think it all ends or begins on this earth, with man.

  266. Yes, Sally, something is wrong within the Vatican. And, something is wrong when history is ignored. We are in the latter times and we need to know what is going on to the best of our ability so that if a lost one comes to you or me, you will be able to lead them to what is more Worthy….Jesus Christ….than what they are thinking about clinging to….false doctrine supported by the Vatican, or other sources.

    I have never said that the Bible was anything other than the only Book we need for our salvation and to know our God. But God has not revealed all things to man.

    You seem not to read the posts that could be called harsh towards me……but gather within your comfort zone to throw rocks.

    I find it very interesting the dynamics of the human mind.

  267. Barry Schmidt Apr 28th 2013


    For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. But one has testified somewhere, saying, “W hat is man, that Y ou remember him ? O r the son of man, that Y ou are concerned about him ? “Y ou have made him for a little while lower than the angels; Y ou have crowned him with glory and honor, A nd have appointed him over the works of Y our hands; Y ou have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him. For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, (Hebrews 2:5-8, 11 NASB)

    I sure am glad God doesn’t hold the low view of man that you do!

  268. Sally, part of the misunderstanding that are brought are because of reading comprehension, whether from a prejudiced mind set, or because we read too fast.

    I did not say the person was paralized with fear. I was trying to say the person was afraid he would trespass his understandings of what man has taught about God’s laws….as apposed to stopping the seriel killer when given the chance.

    Also, Sally you bring up another point. Why does God say we are not to be fearfull? I have seen and heard of many bad things that happened because humans locked up in fear….adult humans, not children.

  269. Barry Schmidt Apr 28th 2013

    Fabakary- what you say makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for sharing that.

  270. Zululander; You say “Killing baddies serves no purpose.” I guess this means if you were one of those entereing the promised land, you would have disobeyed God when He told them to destroy certain peoples?

    I did not say we should go out seeking, but if you are responsible for the protection of those who God has given you, and can at that time prevent others of your brethren from harm, and you have the means, you should stop it.

    Why did God teach in the Old Testament that if your Bull killed your neighbor, and you knew the bulls disposition….you were responsible? Have you studied the old laws to understand the responsible nature of God? You best study Dueteronomy and other places where God’s justice and responsibility were given to mankind.

    GaryB….you are creating a lie in your words towards me and about me. I have never endorsed those ancient writings that what they saw were gods. It is people who are so judgemental, and self righteous in their own knowledge that the Vatican used to kill and burn others at the stake. That is history also, and we need to know it so we don’t fall within the same trap.

    I have never supported any other Way than God’s Words in the Bible. I have never defamed the Bible in any way, and will stand before God in that knowlege.

    What I stand against is the teachings of man that are rampant within the churches of man and their millions of different dogma and doctrine that they put on the Yoke of Jesus Christ.

    That is what is happening right now. Those who are stating misjudgements and lies about me, especially Gary B, are looking through the glasses of understanding that they got from the men who they hold in high esteem. Yes, GaryB, I would never listen to anything that you say….because you are totally consummed with your self righteousness.

    May God open your eyes before it is too late before the very one who comes in deception, pretending to be your savior returned, sweeps you up with his dogma, that may very well appear to agree with yours.

    May the elect of Christ, both Hebrew and Gentile, who care not for their gain, but only that God restores all things, both known and unknow, back to being under His Will and within His Kingdom stand unto death if necessary to warn those who follow mankind.

    It is because I love you, that I risk your stones and rocks.

    GaryB, I have many brothers and sisters of Christ around me, and I trust them, because they reflect Christ, not mankind…as did those who took over Christ’s religion in the Vatican. The sad thing is, those most guilty do not recognize that they are taking the place of God, standing on God’s throne, making the judgements.

    May God forgive you….that you use your fleshly discernment as a spear to attempt to kill what cannot be destroyed…just because it differs with your dogma.

    It is all Jesus Christ, and nothing of man.

  271. fabakary Apr 28th 2013

    Thank you Barry that this makes sense to you , I am sure it is one of the way that he dealt with you in your journey with Him. And thanks for sharing too about His thoughts, it was a confirmation.Have a blessed day.

  272. GaryB, for someone who did not want to dialoge you are sure doing alot of it! 😉

    GaryB…I am a realist, I see man for what man is, and so does God…..fallen. I love man inspite of that, but I don’t glorify man as some of you do.

    All that God does is for the purpose to save man because man needs to be saved. Anyone who does not recognize the state of all men, including me, are not humble, are full of pride and glory for man. You are not yet transformed, you are still flesh, you only have the promise….you still need to finish the race. The race is not over….and the race track is very narrow.

    Quote me the scripture GaryB that states that few find the way. Don’t you think that if man was as wonderful as you claim that many would find the way. Where do these men wind up that don’t find the way? Most men are not saved, even during the revealing tribulation, (which Believers go through), and the Wrath that follows (which Believers miss) most men will still be worshipping themselves…or by this time most will be worshipping the deceiver. They will be looking into the mirror and patting themselves on the back that they made it!

    The entire Bible is about revealing to man how he has failed over and over. Yet, you don’t get that….you think you are so glorious that you can lie and twist my words to make me your enemy.

    It is God who wins, not man’s efforts or man. Tho man did not deserve it, God inacted His Mercy and Grace through Jesus Christ that man may be saved (a certain few that can put Him first, over mother, father, sister, brother, and self), those who can become humble and righteous (not self righteous) in front of God, not in front of man. We are not to bow to man, GaryB, even one like you! 😉 We are to bow only before God.

    The real issue here, GaryB, is that this person, me, does not bend to your way.

    Continue to throw your rocks and stones, build your wood pile and strike your match. All that can be said has pretty much been said, and tho you may continue to change what I have said into your lie, I will let you do so. Your words will stand before God.

    I am turning the other cheek, and stepping out of the way of evil.

    Being a Christian is not about feeling right with yourself. Those poor Christians who fall for man’s dogma may feel guilty because they are not yet as pure as GaryB. Being a Christian is a process, a work of art that is not yet completed until Christ has completed all things concerning earth. Don’t loose your faith because you realize that you and mankind are not perfect, repent and keep running the race, keep putting God before yourself…it is a continuous process until you are transformed.

    Many people do not attend church because of self righteous men.

  273. Barry Schmidt; that which you quote was man before the fall! Surely you know that.

    We will achieve that status again, not by our efforts but by the efforts of Jesus Christ. None of the glory goes to man.

    Satan would have you believe, just as he got Eve to believe that she is worthy enough that she did not have to be obedient. Satan would have you believe that you are already restored. You have the promise and the hope. You are not yet restored. The minute you think you are, through your own efforts….you will be vulnerable to satan’s efforts.

  274. Barry Schmidt Apr 28th 2013

    Kitty- “but now we do not yet see everything subjected to him”

    You might want to do some self discovery regarding your hatred of men. Since you seem to be so out of touch with yourself let me encourage you to go back over your posts- VIRTUALLY EVERY post you have insulted men, denigrated men, criticized men, belittled men, ridiculed men and lowered men.

    And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water? Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh. (James 3:9-12 NASB)

    Again- I am so glad God doesn’t hold the same low view of men that you hold.

  275. Jesus Christ is the only Teacher worth following, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to protect us and guide us from the “glory” of man’s understandings from their own lack of humbleness and inflated pride ….which is the same as antichrist , who comes from the land (which is symbolic of man). Jesus said before His crucifixion that the antichrist was already here or soon coming.

    There are men and women everyday in my earthly life who I do submit to and learn from because they reflect Christ in their beings, not just in their mouths. They don’t judge people according to their own glorified misunderstandings of another.

    The false doctrines that carried away the foolish from wind to wind were doctrines that did not include Jesus Christ as the only Way. They were doctrines that led the early Believer to look towards a man teacher and that man’s understandigs, instead of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    Call me a witch…because I believe that Jesus Christ is the only Way because He came as the LAMB, and that the 10 Commandments measure our obedience, and that the Lord’s Prayer positions us where we should be under God’s Will.

    Burn me at the stake within your mind, and answer for it in front of God. Learn, examine yourself, and know that not one of us is yet worthy, not one.

    I say that in love so that you will not be blinded by what is coming.

  276. Barry, stop being a liar! I do not hate man, I recognize man for what we are. So did Jesus Christ! He would not have come to us if we did not need saving.

    Seeing what we are is the beginning of being humble! What is so hard to understand about that? It is the very beginnings of true love. We are borrowing right now, Christ’s Righteousness, we do not yet have any of our own.

    I love all that God has created…even the wasp that gets trapped in my house…I catch and release so he can achieve what he was designed for. Man was designed and created to be greater than that wasp, and when put on earth to be just a little less than the angels…but he fell, evil entered into him, and only Jesus Christ can remove that evil.

    Man is only saved if Christ is first in what you would preserve if you had to make a choice. That is what I was trying to illustrate when I wrote about “even if I lost my salvation”. Our Salvation is the greatest gift that God has offerred us, and if my salvation would ruin His Plans or taint His Kingdom, than I would gladly give it up. Can you not understand that concept? Can you not make God’s Will the most important thing in your life? If you cannot, and if you cannot even understand that concept….than you are in it for your gain….not for the Glory of God’s Will being done.

    Just because I recognize our state, does not mean that I do not love the promise that is in man through Jesus Christ, which many men do demonstrate.

    You and some others are so defining what the discernment of man is all about. It is very very sad.

    It is useless to speak about it tho, because your eyes are blinded by the glory of man, and in coveting what you have not yet received. Or you are not capable of understanding my words, or I am not capable of using the correct words to aid your understanding.

    That which is coming is to open all the eyes that can be opened. It is all about humbling mankind. Do not lose your faith when man fails you. It is all about God who does not depend on what mankind says about Him.

  277. How can man be forgiven if man doesn’t even recognize his state?

    I would rather be at the bottom of the heap, knowing how wicked I was when I approach my Lord, knowing that I can only approach Him because He paid my price….than to think I had any worth outside of Him, than to think I can approach Him with my head held high.

    I am thinking that those who attack me have totally misunderstood what HUMBLE is and why God has shown us in His word how important it is to be humble in order to learn from the Holy Spirit.

    I have always included myself in how I view the worth of mankind. I learned how to view mankind from within the Bible. I would suggest that many have not truly read the Bible with open eyes.

    I feel sad for all humans who need to have high esteem in order to be comfortable in their lives. You have bought into the lies of satan and the world.

    God teaches that we have no worth in our fallen state, we are dead our worth is so low, unless we come to Christ on our knees, knowing our lack of worth can only be restored through Jesus Christ, via the Holy Spirit, so long as we allow the Holy Spirit to point us constantly towards Jesus Christ. The very Holy Spirit within us is what will transform us when the time comes.

    I have not met one Christian who was worthy on their own merit….including myself, and that does not mean I hate them…it means I love them enough not to lie to them.

    All Glory and Power is God’s. We just borrow it while here in as much as we can set our self glory (esteem) aside.

  278. Can this thread be shut down now?

  279. HUMBLE is our recognition before God of what our worth is.

    Humble is not acquiessing (sp), politely agreeing with another, or remaining silent, or accepting their imagined authority. The Humble in the Bible has nothing to do with our comparison to another human. That is where LOVE comes in. We are to approach others with love, and lying to them is not an expression of love.

    Humble is taking the lowest seat of honor, before God, and before man. Note the word “HONOR”, that is the key to that sentence. We are not to give ourselves any HONOR. That is why it is hard for a RICH man to enter the Kingdom of God. Because the rich man has usually given himself much honor, and worth…. thinking that he is rich because he earned it, or is highly blessed and honored…he is worthy!

    Being humble or not, has nothing to do with who our human authority is, or whether or not we accept one. There are authority lines, but they are a totally different topic.

    Many on this list get “humble” all mixed up with how we honor them or give them authority. I feel sorry for you kinds of christians, I truly do, because you are surrounded with danger.

    If you think that fallen man has worth, you are totally deceived.

    Perhaps it is the word WORTH that is confusing you regarding what I write, and I defend what I write not because of me, but because of what was written.

    Only God is WORTHY. For me to say that fallen man has no worth, and for you to attack me for that….shows a great lack of understanding and discernment. For you to state that I hate man because I say he has no worth outside of God is foolish. God fully intends to destroy every man because of that very same lack of worth, if they are not covered by His Son Jesus Christ!

    You know God loves us, you would not say that God hated you because of His Plans. Why do you say I hate man, because I recognize fallen man’s lack of worth, including my own?

    Is there any man on earth, outside of Jesus Christ who is not fallen? No! So none are worthy.

  280. Sally, I will remove myself from you so that I do not offend you.

  281. Yes, Barry, the tongue is a fire, and when the tongue reflects God, who is a consuming fire, there is no fault found in it.

    The tongue that gossips and plans evil, and denys the Word of God is the one that God warns against in the Bible.

  282. I leave, saying man has no worth outside of Jesus Christ, and I love you all.

    You say man has worth, and you hate me.

  283. Kitty I asked you above , when you said ;

    “Even if it meant that I had to lose my salvation, I would not hesitate to stop the above evil killer, if I had the means….to keep him from harming any others.”

    Why would you lose your salvation if you are acting in Gods will ?

    Your reply Kitty was,

    “I was making a point Kevin.”


    Kitty , can you show were our Lord Jesus Christ , made a point by contradicting Gods will ?

  284. Kitty,

    Many of your words reflect a self righteous disappointment with mankind, which you try and validate in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

    To continue on in this way will only bring more resistance and rebuke from followers of Lord Jesus Christ,
    for no one can defend their own baggage in His Name .

  285. Zululander Apr 28th 2013

    no one hates you Kitty.
    The greatest problem with this forum is that no one really reads the posts correctly & gives thought to it.
    So much of what you say is agreed by all. You’re saying much to try to explain & it’s not helping.
    The real hassle most have is you involvement with the “extra biblical” stuff. It’s real bad Kitty. How come you know or surmise so much about it? Please dump it & ask God to forgive you for ever entering into the study or information gathering of it. If you have ANY books or ANYTHING to do with stuff not dealt with in the bible please burn it & repent of whatever you reason or interest you had in it.
    I have no real problem with your references to the bible unless I missed something the others didn’t miss.
    no Kitty, no one hates or even dislikes you. You’re all getting frustrated & as I said. No one is really listening.
    Remember…slow to speak & quick to listen. I think we all need to heed that.

  286. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 28th 2013

    The Holy Words of God spoken in guile.

    Wisdom from Beneath –
    James 3: 8
    But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10 from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing.My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. 11 Does a fountain send out from the same opening both [g]fresh and bitter water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce [h]fresh.

    Wisdom from Above-
    13 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and [i]selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, [j]natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and [k]selfish ambition exist, [l]there is disorder and every evil thing. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [m]reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the [n]seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace [o] by those who make peace.

    God isn’t ‘rightly represented or heard in such an unholy mix of spirits. We deceive ourselves to believe so. I shall stand with those Greeks seeking to worship and learn at the feet of Jesus Christ Alone – –

    Sirs, we would see JESUS! (and Him alone!) John 12:21

  287. Discerning the words and motives that come from our Lord Jesus Christ, through others.

    Jesus spoke plainly and clearly to those who could understand Him, and He spoke in parables imparting principles to those who couldn’t understand .

    Jesus never spoke in words of flattery or false humility.

    He never said things to impress others

    He didn’t seek approval or validation from anything in this world.

    He didn’t theorize in ways that bring confusion .

    He didn’t get defensive or play the poor me card .

    He never spoke or did one thing that contradicts the written or spoken word of God.

    He never went against the will of God.

    Let us all follow His example in our dealings with one another.

    We are all ” works ” in progress

    We all have unsurrendered flesh remaining and will do until we receive our glorified spiritual bodies.

    Let us all let Lord Jesus Christ reign and rule us.

    Let Him be the authority over our mind will , emotions and motives.

    Let Him work through our conscience , bring us to daily repentance unto Him for the works of our flesh.

    Let Him be the power that we relate to one another with.

    In the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ

    In His love


  288. fabakary Apr 28th 2013

    Amen Kevin good words , we are here to build one another, never being discourage about our pitfalls , but Holding each other hands and ever looking unto Him who can make us stand , and blameless in His sight. Just this morning I almost get discourage because I acted in a verbal way i should not and the enemy wanted to keep me focus on my failure, though i repented but somehow the inspiring was giving to look the future in the Lord , and that was my deliverance and came in my assurance. Praise be to his name.

  289. Quote
    Kitty Wrote: What were those ancient Indian and Chinese texts describing thousands of years ago? Are you saying these writtings do not exist, just because you don’t know about them? Huge flying things shooting down fire? Just answer that question. Recorded in a time way before our modern world. I am going to take a guess that you are not educated in that area and are not familiar with them. What on earth would be the motivation for those ancient people to make up something that they absolutely had no awareness of????

    Your very good at changing around what you have said in a number of comments. I went back through several of your comments to see what you was saying and your comments are very disturbing to say the least.

    They are full of new age type of thinking. When someone asks you about this you become defensive and start attacking them with name calling and accusations of things that they did not say.

    Can you willingly admit that any teaching or writings concerning Aliens from outer space is of the Devil?

    Can you admit that any ancient writings that are outside of the Bible is false teachings that deny the reality of the one true God?

    Don’t you see the error of this type of thinking?

    You said huge flying things shooting down fire in the above quote.

    Its obvious that this is just some writing that is from man’s wild imagination. There are no such things as flying saucers and Aliens from other worlds. No matter who wrote about them.


  290. Kevin,

    Here is two of the points that are mentioned in the five keys concerning this article:

    (3) Be a “lover of truth”. This is very crucial. Are you someone who
    will actually stand up for TRUTH – even against the crowd? Or do
    you remain silent even when you feel something is very wrong?
    (4) Purity of heart and Humility. Many deceptions only appeal to
    us because there is something inside us that “wants” to believe
    them. They are seductive because of darkness and wrong motives
    in our own lives. We must search our hearts and root these out.

    If something is wrong do we stand up for the truth or say nothing when it is doctrinal error?

    I think it is a shock to our system when someone is very forceful with their new age thinking. When someone makes a comment that is wrong and then twists what they said to make everyone think in a direction that avoids the error of their comment, this is out right deception.

    The new agers come with 90% truth but its the mixture that they plant in peoples minds that is the beginning of deception.

    Anyway I agree with your comment and just wanted to add these thoughts here.

    This whole article was about discerning the false teachings when it comes our way. I guess it should not be a shock when it takes place.


  291. watchful Apr 28th 2013

    Amen Kevin.

    Kitty there are things that cause concern, sincere concern…..Many of us are discerning the same thing and we all come from different background with different viewpoints about many things. I honestly don’t think we can all be lumped together and dismissed. Remember that by a multitude of counsellors a war is won.

    Hope you will at least take it to the Lord and ask Him about it. I have a hunch that you may have inadvertently been “infected” when browsing in unsafe pastures of learning without the leading and covering of the Holy Spirit. At least give it some thought…? This spiritual war we are in is very real and much like warfare in the natural, soldiers can get “wounded” or taken prisoner, etc. Just watchin’ yer back sister. Nobody can stand against Satan in our own finite strength and knowledge. He is an elephant and we in our own flesh are only like little mice.

  292. GaryB,

    Before I came to know Lord Jesus Christ, I was involved with New age teachings and other forms of spiritualism, however in our Lords grace and mercy , He gatecrashed my misinformed ways , and led me unto Him and His truth , over 20 years ago now.

    What people don’t realize about all the spiritual churchs, New age fellowships, along with many eastern teachers , is that they all acknowledge Jesus, even teach on Jesus, but what they say is not the truth, so many who are caught up in the teachings thank they have all the answers .

    It is not until we have a real encounter with the real risen Lord Jesus Christ that we see the error of our ways.

    Many people who argue on about what the bible says, have never read it for themselves , and are only speaking from what they have being taught by others.

    Having said that, there are others who have come from a strong biblical knowledge , who never really knew Jesus personally, who in a process of reaching out to spirit , fall into the waiting arms of all the New age deception.

    All the New age deception along with the false Christs and other forms of spiritual deception , that acknowledge Jesus, always seek to internalize Christ and take away from His true identity as a ruling and reigning authority .
    They don’t recognize His authority, and they don’t submit to any authority, in fact all they are worshiping is the creation, not the creator, and they will have all sorts of clever arguments to say that this is the way, and that fundamental Christians have misunderstood what Jesus came for.

    Any who know Lord Jesus Christ, in spirit and truth , know He sent His Holy Spirit to dwell inside us , while at the same time He still has His own identity as a ruling and reigning King.

    The deceived ones who don’t know Him in truth , never want to acknowledge His external ruling authority, for this is what pulls down the deception and vanity of our imaginations , and reveals the real truth about who He is.

    Praise our glorious risen Lord Jesus Christ !

  293. Watchful,

    I witness with what you have said for Kitty in your above post, and encourage Kitty to do as you have suggested to her.

  294. chas351 Apr 29th 2013


    You said “You listen carefully to the preaching and make sure that it truly is Biblical.”
    & If you do not feel quite “right” about it then DO NOT GET INVOLVED”

    ~so far I have NOT heard anything unscriptual in this Revival.

    Of course there will be something offensive sooner or later, preachers are not perfect

    but that does not mean we call all these works of the devil.

    Has God specifically told or shown you Todd Bentley is calling on demons for healing miracles?
    I doubt it!!!

    Good & Evil can be present in the same room, the same person, the same mouth can speak good and evil

    As in the case of Peter,, one minute he says Jesus is Lord by the power of the Holy Spirit, next thing he’s speaking by the power of satan & Jesus is rebuking him
    Matt 16:16-17 & Matt 16:22-23

    We are told to test the spirits and cast down imaginations and anything that exalts itself against God,
    2 Corinthians 10:5 which is completely in contrast to calling an entire ministry evil.

    Many many great Bible teachers started by the Holy Spirit and worked His Powers in signs & wonders, but ended their ministries in defeat and false doctrine.
    Prime example was Judas who “later” betrayed Him, which imlplies he served God for a period of time. He was accepted by the Apostles, chosen by Jesus and Jesus did not call him a false apostle initially.

    Rm 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? …

    Lakeland was very much Holy Spirit empowered until sin entered & quenched the workings. God was greatly Glorified in the Name of Jesus for a period of time.

    Going by ‘feelings’ is WRONG.

    Jeremiah 17:9
    The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? …
    “The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. …

    My Conclusion on this Revival: Rm 3:7

    For if the truth of God is made to superabound for His Glory by my lies, why therefore am I [Todd Bentley] judged as a sinner?


  295. I had a dream five years back
    and it was about anti christ.
    and i am warning us all
    this spirit is already getting people into the mindset
    that it is okay to kill what they consider evil.
    that you will actually be saving them.
    two years after the dream of anti christ
    i began finding the 1223 numbers i had dreamed.
    ANd it came in MORMONISM.
    then i realized……………early MORMONS
    actually KILLED and said they were saving the people
    from sins JESUS blood couldnt fullfill……..
    etc. I did not word it quite as they said it.
    BUT THEN…………..i realized this is why the anti christ
    was tied into the numbers 1223 in my dream.
    IT was to show me………………that SOON many will believe it okay
    to actually KILL those who wont coform to the world
    to peace and unity, and since all are saved etc
    one will actually be doing them a favor.
    This was what i was shown.
    There are some others who may know what i speak of…..
    A time of great dearth is coming upon all those who wont
    confrom to the world of peace and unity.
    all who hold JESUS as only way, and wont put the collective whole of humanity FIRST, but rather PLACE JESUS and every word of GOD FIRST,
    will SOON be hunted. by this false man of peace.
    the only thing stopping these from gonig after fundamental christains………IS its illegal to kill or round up NOW
    BUT IT WONT BE. not after too much longer.
    NOW , no need to fear.
    PREACH THE GOSPLE now………..
    STRONG DELUSION is coming with the dark one……..
    and time is running out.

  296. MANY shall be behead …………..
    and great persecutions shall arise………
    But HE who endures faithful till the end…………….the same shall be saved.
    About the time the kings have fullfilled the dearth against
    all who HOLD and LOVE the TRUTH,
    about the time they are chanting peace and saftey……..
    THEN cometh sudden destucion upon them as upon a woman in travail……………And the world shall be burned with fiery heat…….
    And mens houses and riches, and all things……………shall be renedered uninhabitalble…………….naught, worthless
    and of no use. SO let all trust in these things be dead NOW
    and TRUST ONLY GOD. amen.

  297. AND NOW………………….let us be THANKFUL for GODS GRACE given us freely in CHRIST JESUS
    that we remain in HIM, and be counted worthy to escape GODS wrath, which comes by KING JESUS………….
    GREAT TRIBULATION is coming against the CHURCH
    a short work is coming upon the earth…………
    KINGS are leading the world into amergeddon………
    and all are beginning more than ever
    to unite in world peace and unity
    and hatred is coming more , and more against
    and wont conform to this false peace and unity , all roads etc
    lies and nonsense.
    JESUS is the ONLY WAY………………………and preach it
    and LIVE IT til the last breath.

  298. Amen randall,

    Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
    Rev 13:5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.
    Rev 13:6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
    Rev 13:7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
    Rev 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
    Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear:
    Rev 13:10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

  299. Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
    Rev 19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
    Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
    Rev 19:15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
    Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
    Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God,
    Rev 19:18 to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”
    Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army.
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
    Rev 19:21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

  300. Thanks for your well-wishes Ken and watchful, We had a lovely time, I feel refreshed, We spent time with my sister and her family also – the cousins got on well together… 🙂

  301. chas351 Apr 29th 2013

    Kevin, Randall,

    with an open mind you can be FREE from that teaching.. which is FALSE End Times Interpretation of Scripture

    watch 6 parts>


    Jesus is coming back to meet His Bride, a Powerful Holy Unblemished Bride, NOT a half dead beaten tribulated one.

    yes Yeshua Jesus is the ONLY Way


  302. chas351, I could extend the same offer to you.

    The bulk of His bride are made up of the dead in Christ who will be raised up to meet Him upon His return,

    The part of His bride who are alive on this earth at the time of His return , will be only a fraction of His bride, and they will have been through some tribulation , and will be gathered up to meet Him and joined together with the rest of His bride.

    The end time teachings you refer to are false and oppose so many teachings regarding end times from Lord Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul.

    As it is written, so it shall be !

    chas351, I have no interest in viewing or being open to what you are suggesting, so we will have to agree to disagree .

    In His love


  303. chas351 Apr 29th 2013

    ~i believed the view you now have, for 29 years!!

    (most already fullfilled in 70ad)


    In His Love


  304. chas351 Apr 29th 2013

    Charles Spurgeon

    This Generation shall not pass UNTIL…

    “The King left his followers in no doubt as to when these things should happen: “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.”

    It was just about the ordinary limit of a generation when the Roman armies compassed Jerusalem, whose measure of iniquity was then full, and overflowed in misery, agony, distress, and bloodshed such as the world never saw before or since.

    Jesus was a true Prophet; everything that he foretold was literally fulfilled.”

    (Charles H. Spurgeon: The Gospel of the Kingdom, p.218)

  305. Zululander Apr 29th 2013

    What I find quite amusing in these posts is how everyone quotes a scripture as if that particular scripture is the last word on the subject & often an attitude of “.can’t you read simple English”

    EVERY scripture was said in a context & doesn’t stand alone, and its the understanding of all the contexts that makes exegesis good or bad, obviously including the work of the Holy Spirit.A few verses never convinced anyone, that’s why these discussions go on forever with no conclusion.
    It’s unhelpful to accuse or down somebody who differs from you. You may YHINK they are wrong but you don’t know.
    some believe a thing for years then change & try to change everone else.
    I think is was Andrew who said he was in jail with a certain belief for 13 years, now he is out & free. Well, I think he has gone to the other extreme, but no amount of verses will change his mind till he sees it himself thru process of time & learning. AND THATS MY OPPINION ONLY. Maybe i’m wrong & in time God may show me differently, IF I am not stubborn & open to God in humility, prepared to listen & change.
    Some things, like some of Kittys stuff one had to “shout out loud”
    but other stuff we need to be humble in sharing our differences

  306. chas351,

    I am aware of the teachings and timings you are referring to , however unlike you I once believed those teachings until Lord Jesus Christ opened my eyes to wnat Paul; had to say ;

    1Th 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
    1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
    1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.


    The misunderstanding regarding the words of Jesus arises from Matt 24 where Jesus says;

    Mat 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.
    Mat 24:2 But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
    and yes, this has happened at 70 AD as you say,

    however the following words of Jesus are ongoing , not yet fulfilled;

    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.
    Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.
    Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
    Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
    Mat 24:8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
    Mat 24:9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
    Mat 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
    Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
    Mat 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    The mistake comes in joining the two warnings together and not seeing them in the context they where given.

  307. For the sake of clarity I will briefly outline what I believe the written word and the spirit say about the future return of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    I would encourage anyone who is uncertain about these things to simply read the bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit .

    Avoid the commentaries of man ! including mine !
    seek your own understanding from the written word by the spirit !

    So my understanding is this :

    The bride is made up of all the dead in Christ , which includes many that history shows have suffered tribulation and been martyred for our Lord Jesus Christ and are still being martyred right now in different places on earth at this time.

    We know that many of the dead in Christ are referred to as asleep as Paul has done in 1Th 4″15 above .

    We also know that some of our Lords where caught up and are now with Him ie the transfiguration .

    and at our Lords return there will be some of us still here on earth who will be gathered up and changed into our glorified bodies at the time of His return.

    So all the above parts of His body make up His bride.

    All the parts have been changed into glorified spiritual bodies i.e His spotless Bride.

    If you read what Jesus says in Matt 24 and in the books of revelation, along with what Paul says in Thess 1 and 2
    you will see the connection between all the verses and how they point to one another

  308. Above left out servants
    We also know that some of our Lords(SERVANTS ) where caught up and are now with Him ie the transfiguration .

  309. Now regarding the article for this thread there is another component to the deception that has become widespread.

    It is The manifest sons of God MSOG teaching that has taken parts of our inheritance in Christ that await us when we are given our glorified spiritual bodies.

    This teaching promotes an elite end time generation that become the spotless bride and present themselves to our Lord Jesus Christ upon His return.

    This teaching comes from taking out of context what is written.

    All the blessings and inheritance that awaits us was given to us freely through the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ , and the sending of His Holy Spirit.

    We have been given all that we need to enter in to His Kingdom.

    However this does not mean that we are now actually seated in high places with Him ruling, because as we all know and can see we are still here on earth in a domain that the old foe still rules over, until our Lord returns and forces His authority over all on earth at that time .

    We can walk in victory over this world in the same way that Paul did !

    We need to simply look history to see how many saints have been killed for there faith in Jesus as Stephen was.

    Many , like Stephen did,saw our Lord seated on high , at the time of His death, as this was our Lords way of revealing this to Stephen at that time.

    MSOG teachings however take the inheritance that awaits us all and try and name it and claim it now here on earth , along with saying that we will have some special anointing that wasn;t already given through the sending of the Holy Spirit.

    All this sort of teaching does is set people up for failure and disappointment.

    If we know the truth, the truth will set us free !

    If we know we could be persecuted and suffer tribulation as many before us have, then we will be prepared and empowered as Stephen was when He was stoned to death. .

    We will rejoice in our sufferings , and rejoice as others have before us , that our Lord considered us worthy to suffer as He did.

  310. In summary ;

    Look to the example of Paul in the NT and the words of Jesus and His example as to what to expect in this life here on earth.

    Don’t be sold all the over spiritualized puffed up nonsense that appeals to our pride and our flesh !

    All the examples we need for today are written in the bible !

    The Holy Spirit will take anyone who simply seeks the truth , and show them by the spirit and the word.

    Praise our glorious Lord Jesus Christ

    For He is Holy

    He never Changes

    He has already given us all that we need

    He has led us by example

    Praise His Holy Name

    King of Kings

    Lord of Lords

    The name above all names !

  311. Jordan Shepherd Apr 29th 2013

    Andrew, thank you for the article. It’s timely and has/will bless many, offering godly counsel to live soberly, righteously and godly. I have just begun to read the responses and will read them all shortly. At this point, it appears some have misunderstood the inner witness as going by feelings and that the heart is deceptive, quoting Jeremiah 17.

    Let me say this: The Holy Spirit can be grieved and we can quench the Spirit. We all know this and have experienced this. When it occurs, it is prudent to engage in godly counsel, prayer and time in the Christian Scriptures. Additionally, we have the anointing within us that teaches us all things (1 John 2:27). It is ok to act justly – reveal deception, as long as we love mercy and walk humbly. I think Satan hates humility because he cannot appeal to human lust which makes deception a little more difficult.

    Quoting Scriptures: Sound exegesis is vital. However, Scriptures can be powerful for edification. Some Scriptures have great power when delivered with Godly timing and certainly when received directly by the Lord to us personally. I know this: “If my delight was not in your law, I would have perished in my affliction.”(Psalm 119:92)

    I commend us all to pray that God grant us the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him and that the eyes of our heart would be enlightened, that we may know the hope of our calling, the riches of the inheritance of the saints and the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe. The peace of God be with you all.

  312. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Welcome back Andrew J horton. God seeing you again

    The Signs of the Coming of the Lord
    Want to speak not just of the ultimate external universal dominion of Christ or His return but also His visitations in individuals, communities from season to season. Considering one of the sign of the coming or visitation of the Lord is “immediately after the tribulations of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light , and the starts shall not fall from heaven , and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken” (Mat. 24v29). When the Lord went to the Cross , it was one of the clearest sign of His coming to dwell in spirit in the hearts of men. There are principalities , and wicked powers in heavenly places, and going to the cross , is to face this powers and principalities and overthrow them and in their anger they do a great damage to the physical world as they lose their position in those heavenly places. ; and that is why there were visible negative sign in the physical world, there was darkness , and the sun was darkened even Like he told us in Matt.24v29, when the Lord went to the Cross .” And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. (Luke23v44-45)‘
    You see when the Lord went to the Cross , it was a sign of His coming to dwell in men and just because of that and only that there was darkness, and the sun was darkened all over the Earth very similar to what He told us (Mat.24v29). Darkness is a work of satanic resistance. The Cross attract opposition from principalities and powers .That is why the day a person surrender to the work of the Cross, it is like something strange will start happening in the individual life, the scripture calls it the fiery trials . There comes antagonistic behaviors from others men, family , etc against you , receiving an unexplained hate , it is like a darkness is set over men hearts over your state and your moves are misunderstood etc. I do not have to talk more on that but We all as Children of God knows something’s of that in different measures. This are the works of wicked spirits , oppressing the mind of men against the person carrying His cross. To Die in the spiritual sense , will received a physical opposition. Some of us where grace to see the rage of satan and His demons in vision against us anytime we make a decision to embrace the will of God or the cross he has given us , even before it materials in physical oppositions. This is about in our individual life.
    An understanding was given to me that before Every revival or visitation of God , in an environment when the principalities sense it by the Life of those that have submitted their live to the Cross, there are physical manifestations in the natural like wars, famine, disasters, perversions etc because Satan and his agents spent all there energies to withstand it.
    If that will be the case for individual or seasonal revival visitations of the Lord , we are to expect the greatest of hardship , pain before the Lord comes to rule over the nations and physical destroy the powers of darkness. But the Joy is we can partake of such a work now, there are treasures of eternal riches we can received by submitting to the work of the cross he has gives us , not without difficulties, yet there will be an open heaven of glorious fellowship with our Lord. Praise be to His name.

  313. Jordan Shepherd Apr 29th 2013

    Gaynor – Your comment about discernment before being a Christian intrigues me. In 1986, 4 years before I heard the Gospel and surrendered to the Lord, I read these words in a local Gold Coast newspaper: “See to it that no one cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.”

    I had never read such profound words before and I was amazed. So much so, I spent the next 30 minutes memorising those words as if my life depended on it and that my destiny was somehow connected to it. Underneath the quote was written the word, Colossians. I couldn’t wait until this man “Colossians” wrote these words of wisdom and advice again (lol) but no such writings appeared from that time on. I did not search the Bible because at that point in my life I did not know there was a Bible, nor did I know exactly who this Christ was.

    In late 1990, a faithful witness declared the Gospel to me. A very short time after I was saved. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

    I now understand part of my own calling. I also get it when Jesus said: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.”

    What exactly as God’s children do we hunger? Do we hunger to be like Him and to please Him? There will be those who say: Lord, did we not do this and that? Did we not do those amazing, spectacular, crowd pleasing acts that were powerful? The answer is sad. Just how many of us represent and reflect Christ to the world in a way that accurately portrays who He is? Just how do we represent the name of the Lord? By their fruit you shall know them.

    “The world and its desires pass away, but those who do the will of the Lord, live forever. (1 Jn 2:17)

    What is the will of God? Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in ALL things give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Don’t quench the Spirit. Don’t despise prophecies. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5)

  314. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Sorry andrew J horton I mean good seeing you again not God seeing you again.

  315. The Lord loves you James and wants you to know Him… 🙂

  316. What we are promised as followers of Jesus is persecution… 🙂

    Yes, we will also experience the Goodness of the Lord in the land of the living but all those who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted… 🙂

    To know Him means that we will share the fellowship of His sufferings and become like Him in His death… 🙂

    This is what Knowing the Lord is all about…

    But in this place there is such joy and peace and tranquillity before the Lord…

    He preparest a table before us in the presence of our enemies… 🙂

    Praise His Holy Name…

    Nothing else matters…

    Praise You Jesus…

    You have overcome the world… 🙂

  317. Marilyn Crow Apr 29th 2013

    I was very impressed with the group, how you all discerned error in our midst & how you all dealt with it in a very caring manner.
    As the Lord says to be at –

    `peace with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart, but refuse foolish & ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.` (2 Tim. 2: 22 & 23)

    Thankyou OneBody for that heartfelt song, `Be Glad.` My husband & I really enjoyed it.

    fabakary, In line with your thoughts I will write these words from an old prophecy. (by Prophet J.A.Tate Melbourne Aust. `49)

    `Falling, My people, the weight of the ages falling upon your souls! ……
    Oh, My people, My people, think it not strange if you are conscious of a weight, for as I begin to open up, to show you something of the eternal arrangements of Divine Lordship then you can well understand that there should be weight in the same:

    For is there not a cross – a large, heavy, laborious cross – embedded in every manifestation od Divine Lordship? And it cannot be otherwise, saith the Lord. If I will lay My hand upon you then you must feel the weight of the Cross. If I will have My way in your life, then you must feel the sting & the pain of the cross.

    If I will send you where I want to then it must be by the way of the cross, that you will find your journey`s end. If I will be demonstrably Lord in your life, it will only be insofar as you have been consciously submissive to the ministry of the cross on your experience.

    Yea, I would have you to understand also that there is all the weight of Divine purpose embedded in it of the eternal revelation of My will hidden in My heart from before the initiation of the ages.

    …….And My will shall only be accomplished in your experience as you are daily conscious that the weight of Divine Lordship is pressing, pressing, pressing against you. It press you down & believe My word, My people, paradoxical though it may be, that even as it presses you down it is pressing you in, in, in, deeper & deeper into that realm of mystic experience where you can have fellowship with Me, not only in the broad span of providential ministry, but in the intimate sphere of predestined purpose, saith the Lord………

    Hope some can understand….. Marilyn.

  318. Marilyn Crow Apr 29th 2013

    Concerning the word `mystic,` I believe the Prophet who was a personal friend of our family would have meant `hidden,` but not what we think as mysticism.

  319. Kevin, I believe the Lord has given you an Apostolic ministry and that by definition means that you need to be sent by the Lord to do what it is that He is calling you to do…

    All I sense is that the Lord would have you to come “underneath” in the Apostolic calling which He has on your life – to come “underneath” and serve those who the Lord places across your path to reveal Christ to them through everything which you do – in your words and in your actions – release Father to Kevin everything he needs to be able to release to others Father everything which You would have him to release and let him be a blessing to all that he comes in contact with – either online or in person or via any other media or form of communication – bless others with what You’ve established in Kevin and let him be blessed to be a receptacle and conduit of Your Love and Presence (give him Your Wisdom mightily – break off him anything which would hinder him from Knowing You and fulfilling his call in You – give him Your joy and Your peace and Your righteousness) – use Him Lord for Your Glory – in the Mighty Name of Jesus, Amen… 🙂

  320. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Amen Andrew J Horton. Marilyn Crow , that word that you share is a very timely word for me. I am so encouraged. Good to hear from you again. God bless you.

  321. Where you’re at right now with the Lord James what is it that you need prayer for to be able to completely surrender yourself to Him?

  322. AJH
    I thought you would be gone longer glad to see you back.

    Marilyn Crow,
    Glad to see you as well I missed your posts.

    It seemed like something was missing while everyone was gone. 🙂

  323. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Andrew J Horton , one of the most prayer that I need is to see each daily Cross He has give me with His eyes , for that will keep me walking in His love and Joy and giving out that Love to others, rather than seeking to be Loved. Seeing His cross in the wrong eye can lead to unkind , unloving or terrible acts.

  324. It was just a mini-break Gary… 🙂

  325. What I saw about that over the weekend away James was that the Lord called me to a place of selflessness…

    There has been something on my mind for quite some time to do with my personal happiness and I keep talking to the Lord about this and finally – I think it was this morning actually – yes, it was – after a painful experience the night before (breakthroughs are usually preceded by painful experiences :-)) – that as I took the place of only wanting every single person on the planet to fulfil their call (destiny) and their purpose in God then that would become my happiness – now there’s a difference between knowing that in your head and actually experiencing it – submitting to it – in your heart – but the Lord enabled me to do that – and that pain which I was experiencing “dropped off” – when there is nothing left of selfishness in you then you are free to love others and make their fulfilment (fulfilling God’s Purpose for their lives) your happiness… 🙂

    This is what Jesus did where “for the joy set before Him” (the joy of seeing us all in heaven with Him – happy and fulfilled in Him) “He endured the cross despising the shame and sat down at the Right Hand of the Father in heaven”…

    I will pray that you would experience this joy – this release of joy – in your life… 🙂

    Set him free Lord… 🙂

    And break off him anything that would resist You… 🙂

    Love in the Lord,


  326. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Good words Andrew J horton, we cannot Love as we aught except we are free from selfishness. Embracing our daily Cross will free us. Glad to learn of your testimony and also that you will keep me in prayers. There is power and release that comes in the Lives of others as we intercede for them.

  327. Surrendering to the pain is good James… 🙂

    Knowing that Jesus is carrying us in our pain…

    Pouring out our hearts to God – telling God honestly what we’d really like and then watching Him “change our hearts” (or what is expressed out of us) to be in accordance with His will – when it is we feel it as there is no sense of “wrongness” in it, no “niggle” inside us telling us that this just isn’t right – and then we experience His joy and the “concern” or “issue” just breaks off us…

    That’s been my experience on this one to date… 🙂

    Love in the Lord,


  328. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Amen Andrew J horton, Good counsels indeed. Stay blessed.

  329. Got to share this song with you (I’ve shared it before here) James… 🙂


  330. Andrew,

    regarding what you said above, our Lord Jesus Christ was the one to bring the apostolic ministry to earth.

    Jesus, God come in the flesh, showing the truth of the written word with the power of the spirit was the first apostle.

    Jesus demonstrated and imparted the apostolic ministry, which to me is the combining of the truth of His written word, with the power and presence of His Holy Spirit being the evidence that the word He spoke was true.

    So in this regard the apostolic ministry is really the ministry and revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, the rock , the true foundation upon which all else is built.

    So we are all called to walk in the apostolic, which is the true revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to lay our foundations in Him.

    Yes, some are sent out to serve as apostles which is basically reaching people for our Lord Jesus Christ, and establishing His true foundations within them, so in that regard He has used me and sent me at times to reach people for Him, so in that regard I have come ” underneath ” it as you put it.

    Having said that, I can do nothing in my own strength will or timing , and can only serve Him as He directs.

    In His Name

    For His Glory

    Praise our glorious Lord Jesus Christ

  331. fabakary Apr 29th 2013

    Sorry Andrew J Horton I am on a Leave from office many days ago . A one month leave but soon to resume work by next week.I am just at home , with my Laptop this days .It is cheap to browse text messages from the internet but the cost of video message are very expensive to listen to. When I want to listen video messages I go to our office mostly during none working days though I am on leave and have free access to you tube . I will save the Link and when I resume work by next week will hope to listen it , I will have enough free access to such videos. Thanks.

  332. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013

    Keviin, re: MSOG teachings however take the inheritance that awaits us all and try and name it and claim it now here on earth , along with saying that we will have some special anointing that wasn;t already given through the sending of the Holy Spirit.

    All this sort of teaching does is set people up for failure and disappointment.

    These were excellent points to bring out. Thankyou :).
    An emphasis on temporal values above Christ-likeness. Christ relinquished all heaven and earths ‘treasure’ to do the will of the Father. This was infinite wisdom, knowing,’true wealth’. To do the will of the Father!

    RE: All this sort of teaching does is set people up for failure and disappointment.——

    We saw this most devastatingly within our church youth. Our hearts sank to read a FB post from a youth after attending some of these teaching sessions. They posted that their goal for New Years was to become a millionaire by a certain date ——–

    The deceiver still lures -: “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Matthew 4:9

    But God remains faithful to instruct in The Way:- Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Matthew 6:19-21

    20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

    21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

  333. watchful Apr 29th 2013

    Amen to the cross and preparing for tribulation Randall, Kevin, fabakery, Andrew J and Marilyn………it is the only way that Christ can be revealed in us. Marilyn what you wrote reminds me of:

    2Cr 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

    2Cr 4:11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

    It does feel like a weight, very much………but even as Jesus rose from the dead, I believe there is a “resurrection” that we can somehow attain to in this life which will free us…..am looking forward to that……if I’m not mistaken this is the overcoming that the scripture speaks of. Lead us onward, Lord…

  334. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013
  335. Jordan Shepherd Apr 29th 2013

    Healing is an area where deception can take root and an area Christians tend not to study.

    Discernment is therefore paramount when dealing in the area of signs and wonders particularly when mixed with false teaching.

    If people see what they consider to be divine healing, they are likely to accept any teaching that follows. It is therefore important to distinguish between the different types of healing today.

    Personally, we should not be so lazy as to allow the ministry of teaching to come directly out of an area where God’s word said there would be deception, that is, the signs and wonders manifestation movement, without being diligent to apply the tests as directed by Scripture.

    The following is excerpted from: “Biblical Divine Healing
    Versus Other Types Of Healing” by Sandy Simpson, 1/25/02.

    (Please take note of [4] Psychological Healing and [5] Paranormal/Demonic Healing, below):

    “1. Biblical Divine Healing
    Biblical Divine Healing is immediate, lasting, verifiable and all the glory goes to Jesus Christ. (further explanation below).

    2. Natural Healing:
    Natural healing is a feature that God created in all plant, animal and human life. The information needed to effect a great deal of healing in the human body is part of our genetic code. Natural healing is the type of healing that occurs most often. It is truly a gift from God, but most people don’t even give it a second thought.

    Natural healing is slow, may or may not last, verifiable and hard to verify; God deserves the glory, mostly glory is given to the evolution of man

    3. Medicinal/Medical Healing
    Medicinal healing can be obtained by using plants, herbs and many other substances God created for us to use. Because of the accumulated human learning we have acquired over the millennia that God’s grace has tarried, we also have much wisdom in the healing arts that have been passed down to us. Practitioners of Medical Healing today are doctors, dentists, and many other healing professions.

    Medicinal/Medical Healing is mostly slow, rarely fast, may or may not last, fairly verifiable, God deserves the glory; mostly glory is given to man.

    4. Psychological Healing
    There are many helps to healing that come under the heading of Psychological Healing, some positive and some negative. In the positive category would be things like positive thinking. The benefits of positive thinking and having a happy, carefree attitude have an effect on health issues, especially on emotional problems. But it can also affect the physical, particularly where the root problem is psychological to begin with.

    Keep in mind that positive thinking is not Divine Healing, but is a change of attitude. Adrenaline and seratonin can also play a role in making people feel better, even in thinking they are healed when they aren’t. This is one of the key factors we see in the modern “faith healer” crusades. People are pronounced healed by Biblical Divine Healing who have merely been manipulated to the point where adrenaline or seratonin are released, thus helping them to get up out of their wheelchair for a time, or feel like they are healed. The problem is that this is a temporary condition and wears off. It can even be detrimental to their health in the long run. Along with emotional manipulation to get people to the point where their body excretes pain reducing chemicals, is outright hypnosis. This is another trick in the “faith healer’s” bag of tricks. People are brainwashed and put into an altered state of consciousness by loud repetitious music, repetition of key phrases, group dynamics and reinforcement techniques, and other cultic practices. Finally they end up in a type of trance state where they suspend their cognitive faculties in favor of a pure emotional experience. This can lead to delusions of healing and visions that are not real. Hypnosis has ties to Paranormal/Demonic Healing that cannot be ignored.

    Psychological Healing is sometimes immediate, mostly slow, may or may not last, almost impossible to verify, God deserves the glory, mostly glory is given to self.

    5. Paranormal/Demonic Healing
    Paranormal/Demonic Healing has been in existence in the world practically since the creation. It is the oldest healing art. But the problem with this type of healing is that it is a (1) lying wonder and (2) opens the door to demonic influence, demonization, even possession.

    A lying wonder is not necessarily a false wonder or false miracle, but it is, more importantly, a miracle claimed to be from God but whose source is really from the devil. It is important to understand that actual healing can come from a lying wonder. But it is a type of healing that leads the person into bondage to the enemy. It is often used to confirm the alleged power of an individual, but behind it come the deceptions of the enemy. It’s like a fish trap. The bait in the trap is real food and will nourish the fish that eats is, but after he is finished he is inside of a trap, whether or not he realizes it.

    There is much evidence also that suggests that this type of healing is a shell game of the enemy. By that I mean that the original condition was caused by the enemy, then when it is brought to a faith healer, witch doctor or shaman, the enemy cleverly lifts that condition only to replace it with other forms of demonization. This type of healing also, in many documented cases, may eventually lead to suicide and death.

    We must also remember that lying begets lying. People who get this kind of healing become part of the deception themselves, in turn deceiving others. It is an insidious form of healing that must be avoided at all costs.

    Paranormal/Demonic Healing is immediate to slow, may last for awhile, but usually temporary, usually hard to verify, and all glory to man and the devil while lip service to God.”

    On the other hand, “All the glory goes to God for Biblical Divine Healing because it is impossible for anything or anyone to effect Biblical Divine Healing except God Himself. Divine healing can occur at any time or any place. God can heal in response to the prayers of the righteous (James 5:16) in answer to the prayers of the elders in a local church (James 5:14) or simply because God wants to heal someone. I see no evidence in Scripture AT ALL of divine healing occurring as a sign to justify false teachers or false prophets.

    I believe it is possible for a person to receive divine healing anywhere. It is even remotely possible for God to heal someone for His own purposes at a meeting of a false teacher, but in that case it is also a test and the responsibility of that Christian to understand that the Lord did the healing and he is commanded to get away from false teachers as Jesus and the Apostles told us to do.

    To definitively prove that a healing is a Biblical Divine Healing today … that healing would have to be (1) of an incurable condition (2) obvious (3) verifiable (4) a problem well known to many people (5) immediate (6) lasting and (7) ascribed alone to the glory of God Who accomplished it by His omnipotent power alone. If it does not meet ALL these criteria it should not be used to prove it is a type of Biblical Divine Healing.”


    I hope this article clarifies and blesses you and ministers to strengthen you. I strongly recommend reading the full extract, complete with Scripture references.

    Capacity for the working of deception, control and manipulation in the realm of healing, particularly points 4 and 5, above, is enormous. Many Christians have been led astray in this area which has led to hurt, confusion, deception and eventual shipwreck. Some have even sadly become deluded, and are detrimental to the body of Christ and the growing number of wounded saints.

    Let us be informed, led of the Holy Spirit, [pure in heart, humble, (deception comes because of “… darkness and wrong motives in our own lives …” – Andrew Strom, Pt 4 of the originating article to this Post]. May we speak the truth in love as we seek to abide (remain steadfast and stand up for the truth) in Him and attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

    By God’s grace we will overcome.

    Yet, may we cry out for wisdom and discernment:

    “My son, if you will receive my words, and treasure my commandments with you so that you incline your ear to wisdom, and apply your heart to understanding; Yes, if you cry after knowledge, and lift up your voice for understanding; If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hid treasures; Then shall you understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.”

    The grace of God and the peace of God be with you all.

  336. Andrew J, glad you had a good time and now feeling refreshed 🙂


  337. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013

    Re: “Biblical Divine Healing Versus Other Types Of Healing”
    by Sandy Simpson,

    It’s like a fish trap. The bait in the trap is real food and will nourish the fish that eats is, but after he is finished he is inside of a trap, whether or not he realizes it.


    This is a thorough and sound article. Thankyou for sharing it.

  338. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013

    Jordan Shepherd, I had to appreciate this churches (5) in it’s doctrinal statement. Same concept as your article, differing wording. I liked their wording aswell.


    We emphatically state that we do not doubt God’s power. He can do anything He wants. He’s omnipotent. For Him, miracles are no problem. He has the ability to cure any disease. We believe in divine healing but not in divine healers. We do not find scriptural support to believe that God wants everybody well only if you have enough faith.

    We believe it to be materialistic by the promising of financial prosperity and perfect health. We see this as a shift from sound doctrine to a focus on promised physical, financial, and material blessings. We believe this to be an extreme misrepresentation of sound doctrine. Man cannot use God or the Holy Spirit to receive whatever he wills. Whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite: God uses the believer. This type of teaching views God as some kind of genie or Santa Claus who is at the Christians beck and, call. This is not the God of the Bible. We believe that God blesses us, but not always materially. (Matthew 16:21; I Timothy 6:5, 9-11;II Peter 2:1-19)

  339. HolyHolyHolyLGA

    That is sound doctrine.


  340. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013

    [email protected]

    I had to appreciate this churches (5) in it’s doctrinal statement. Same concept as your article, differing wording. I liked their wording aswell.


    We emphatically state that we do not doubt God’s power. He can do anything He wants. He’s omnipotent. For Him, miracles are no problem. He has the ability to cure any disease. We believe in divine healing but not in divine healers. We do not find scriptural support to believe that God wants everybody well only if you have enough faith.

    We believe it to be materialistic by the promising of financial prosperity and perfect health. We see this as a shift from sound doctrine to a focus on promised physical, financial, and material blessings. We believe this to be an extreme misrepresentation of sound doctrine. Man cannot use God or the Holy Spirit to receive whatever he wills. Whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite: God uses the believer. This type of teaching views God as some kind of genie or Santa Claus who is at the Christians beck and, call. This is not the God of the Bible. We believe that God blesses us, but not always materially. (Matthew 16:21; I Timothy 6:5, 9-11;II Peter 2:1-19)

  341. Johan Laubser Apr 29th 2013

    I just want to say that look how the thread has changed since Kitty gave her views. ..Is it a matter of deviation, a kind of deception? If you are rebuked and you feel bounded afterwards,I would say ignore such reprimant. When it is from God, you will be set free and not tied up in bondage. Jesus came to set us free and He has done just that!
    Bless all.

  342. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013

    Andrew Strom, It appears I accidently posted my last entry twice. Please feel free to delete it if you wish. 😀 God Bless

  343. Just reading through the posts from overnight (here in New Zealand), the thought which comes to me is to keep focusing on Jesus… 🙂

    Whatever we’re looking at is what we’ll become…

    If we’re “fixing our eyes on Jesus” then we’ll become like Jesus – “as of by the Lord the Spirit” – beholding in a mirror the Glory of the Lord…

    Also surrender…

    Submit yourselves therefore to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you…

    No surrender (just a submitting of ourselves to God – as our brother Barry has been sharing with us – to believe what He has said and resting in His ability and promise to transform us into His Image) no ability to resist the devil and have him flee from us, i.e. deception…

    The greatest protection is to stop protecting ourselves, i.e. focusing on trying to stay “un-deceived”… 🙂

    But instead to focus “exclusively” on Jesus…

    While we’re doing that if anything else “comes across our path” we’ll see it for what it is…

    And finally,

    God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble…

    We are Yours Lord, we trust You to protect us, We rely on You, We can do nothing without You, We love You, We give our lives to You, Do with us whatever You want to do, Use us to Glorify Your Name in all the earth…

    Take whatever is holy in us and use it for Your Glory, bring others to come to know You through our lives yielded to You, You are the Healer, You are the Deliverer, You are the Saviour and the Redeemer, Praise Your Wonderful Name, Love You Lord…

    We love You Lord, In Jesus Name, Amen… 🙂

  344. Roger (NZ) Apr 29th 2013

    Kevin spoke earlier of the explicit warnings given by Jesus, (Matt 24) to His disciples, when He spoke to them on the Mount of Olives – the place where He ascended into Heaven, and the place to which He will descend at His physical, visible, literal, ‘return/2nd coming’.

    Jesus intended these words as a warning, so we may be prepared, He spoke of:

    1.Worldwide disasters – wars, famines, earthquakes, false christs.

    2.Changes in the church – persecution, false prophets, falling numbers, gospel preached to the world.

    3.Middle East events – man of lawlessness, unequalled tribulation (limited in duration), continued false christs and false prophets.

    4.Literal darkness – sun and moon give no light and no stars, yet – brilliant light fills the sky at the coming of the true Christ, Lord Jesus, born-again believers (those both dead and alive) gathered from around the world.

    Of the above, the 1st is here, the 2nd nearly completed, the 3rd yet to occur, after which the 4th will follow quickly

    Now these are also spoken of in the book of Revelation – events occuring before Lord Jesus return – which was given to John, as a preparation for events, and as an encouragement to ALL BELIEVERS to remain focussed on Lord Jesus, the Messiah of God, living and confessing our belief and faith

    – ‘overcoming’ to the point of physical death

    – KNOWING that He would return to reign on earth.

    – not to be discouraged over His lack of appearing, or time taken.

    Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  345. Richard Savage Apr 29th 2013

    These debates come over to me as a shul, and there’s several posters here who will know what I mean. Two Jews, five answers and no conclusions. And no action.

    We’ve a job on hand folks, pull them as a brand from the burning. These are the very last days of the last days … time is at an absolute premium. Our judgement is almost at hand.

    Instead of splitting hairs on a moot point, why aren’t we posting, three soundly saved to day, church forming in my neighbourhood. Oh, Praise God!

    Me thinks we Western Christians are a mite too comfortable. That won’t last much longer. Satan has declared war, his last stand. The going is about to get tough.

    Who will be standing with me? I know of two here, but anymore, or do you prefer debate, and word wrangling? Comments please.

  346. I’m with you Richard, Love you brother… 🙂

  347. Love to read all your comments upthread here and thank some of you for the encouraging words of a problem I mentioned upthread. Am so thankful for the Body of Christ!

    On discernment: Just happened reading an evangelist’s sermon from a general church conference several years ago, where he was teaching on how we are still imperfect even while working under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. He told a story of how once in a church he was preaching in during the Christmas season, a prophetic word from the Lord came to someone who gave a lengthy word to the church, where he finished with a “Merry Christmas and Happy New Year”.

  348. Marilyn Crow Apr 29th 2013

    Gary B. fabakary, Watchful, thankyou for the welcome.


    Yes, the other side of the cross is the resurrection that is the life we have – very good thought. This resurrection overcomes the world, its cares, its lies etc. The `weight,` the Lord refers to I think is as you said `to do His will,` in our daily lives. His Lordship not our selfishness. (Good sharing Andrew J. Horton.)

    Another aspect of the `weight of the ages,` upon us is `to whom much is given, much is required.` At this stage in the Maturing of the Body of Christ, 2000 years have gone with the Holy Spirit revealing, clarifying more truths of Christ.

    Remember Martin Luther, John Wesley etc, who taught of Salvation in Christ, & as the years went by God revealed other truths – Holiness in personal life, Baptism in water, & last century the great truth of the Holy Spirit`s anointing. Obviously people throughout the centuries believed many truths but across the Body they were not fully realised.

    Then who would have thought that the traditional denominations would accept what the Pentecostals understood.. And yes in my time people from across the Body of Christ received the Holy Spirit in a greater way.

    Then a wonder to me Christ continued to move across His Body, despite man`s ignorance & hostility. I am referring to the recognotion of Apostles & Prophets. When I was young (aeons ago, `50`s) Christians & even Pentecostal Christians, did not accept this teaching & we (my denonmination) was ridiculed for even suggesting they believed & had Prophets operating. And to think that they named people Apostles! Well absurd, they said.

    But here we are now in the new century & people across the Body accept the Apostle & Prophet revelation. (of course the counterfeit is always there with trumpets blazing)

    So to relate to the `weight of the ages,` we are so privileged to have these clarifying revelations of our Lord opened up to us in His word. People have been tortured, died, received ridicule etc for holding fast to these truths. Let us not hold them lightly.

    Thus there is much to stand firm on & also to discern against. As the Apostle Paul said, `Hard pressed on every side,` because there is such wondrous truths of our Lord that the enemy would seek to undermine.

    And because we, the Body have not yet reached full Maturity of the revelation of our Lord, we need to examine all we believe (as is happening in this group) because there is still `God`s purposes for the 3 groups,` to be fully realised.

    So let us continue to hold fast to the great truths passed down through the ages.

    Overcomers in Him. Marilyn.

  349. Jordan Shepherd Apr 29th 2013

    Holy .. LGA
    Agree with your comments, and yes, we do not direct God, He moves by His Spirit in His time. I will add, we do not “summon” God as some are seen to be doing, like a new age mantra or engaging in repetitive (vain repetitions) words and music which can place people in a trance to receive all kinds of non biblical experiences and visions. I do know that concerning prosperity, God certainly wants our souls to prosper, that we may be whole and worship Him with all our heart, mind, strength. Thank you for your comments and discernment.

    PS – Does LGA stand for Love God Always 🙂

  350. Greetings! And may God bless those who are in Him.

    Something to test your discernment, considering when I first posted sometime ago that the original Hebrew said this, a few of the “righteous” on this list disputed me, and accused me of false teaching, of being a liar….(because they have been taught by man) just as did the Pharisees to Christ. I was merely stating a fact regarding the original Hebrew text. See for yourself below. I won’t stay for your comments because I would have to reply, and I don’t want to offend the little ones. I will humbly stand before God, as my Defender.

    The below is the original Hebrew of Genesis Chapter 1:1-4. Know that in Hebrew the action comes before the one acting…so your understanding will be better.

    It states:

    1:1 in beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth.

    (This is what happened in the beginning….and then this earth that was created in the beggining had something happen to her….continue to read.) (I would ask you, is not everything that God creates Good? There is scripture on that….and the answer is YES!)

    1:2 And the earth SHE BECAME chaos and vacancy and darkness over surfaces of abyss. And spirit of Elohim vibrating over surfaces of the waters

    (‘she became”….a future action which changed a previous condition. I believe God did inspire the Bible, and I believe that the original Hebrew is what the Old Testament was written in. Hebrew was the language that God chose. I believe that subsequent religious scholars in doing their own translations according to what they were taught, used their words, NOT God’s, to make it easier to understand and to match what they had been taught by the scholars in their institutions of religion….creating possible error. If you want to follow God as true as you can, you need to read the original Hebrew for clarifications of translations.)

    1:3 And he is saying Elohim he shall become light and he is becoming light.

    (I believe that this is where Christ first came to earth as Creator.)

    1:4 And he is seeing Elohim the light that good and he is separating Elohim between the light and between the darkness.

    (I believe that this is where God defines Evil as everything that is anti-Christ. Making a separation between the two, considering what satan’s rebellion caused.)


    Below is the original Hebrew.


    ית 1:1  רֵא ִ ְ



    רָא ָ



    הִי אֱ






    מַיִ  הַ ָ









    1:2  וְהָאָרֶ












     וְחֹ ֶ







    נֵי ְ






    חַ וְר



    הִי אֱ









    נֵי ְ



    יִ” הַ ָ



    אֹמֶר 1:3 # וַ



    הִי אֱ






    ר א







    ר א



    רְא 1:4 # וַ ַ



    הִי אֱ







    ר הָא







    ב ט





    הִי אֱ



    ‘ י ֵ



    ר הָא



    ‘ בֵי 



     הַחֹ ֶ





  351. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 29th 2013

    Jordan Shepherd,
    re: Does LGA stand for Love God Always

    No it does not. I didn’t have space for the first few words of a song, so I put the first three, and the last letters only (LordGodAlmighty) I absolutely love your hearts perception of what would follow the three Holy’s (LoveGodAlways)..:D Praise Him! I am laughing will a thrill in my soul. You made my day, and I thank you!

    Holy, Holy, Holy! Lord God Almighty Love God Always! Yes, I like, and believe all here would say Amen to your addition! Be Blessed!

    SONG: Holy, Holy, Holy

    Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
    Early in the morning our song shall rise to thee.
    Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty,
    God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

    Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore thee,
    casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
    cherubim and seraphim falling down before thee,
    which wert, and art, and evermore shalt be.

    . Holy, holy, holy! Though the darkness hide thee,
    though the eye of sinful man thy glory may not see,
    only thou art holy; there is none beside thee,
    perfect in power, in love and purity.

    . Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
    All thy works shall praise thy name, in earth and sky and sea.
    Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty,
    God in three persons, blessed Trinity.

  352. It’s amazing how when we’re about to break through into something “practical” and “real” the enemy comes along trying to use reasoning, rationality and any other means possible to distract us from the “one thing” which is needful…

    I love you all but I’ve decided to speak to those who are wanting to surrender themselves to the Lord for the purpose of knowing Him and making Him known in this world…

    Once we know Him we need to pour out our lives for Him…

    Testimonies are awesome and encourage our faith…

    That’s what I’ve got time for… 🙂

  353. Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    My question is “WHO asked these questions?”

    The very obvious answer is – the Jews (Israel) asked these questions.

    NOT the Church!!!

    The Church was NOT born yet at this time!!!

    My question is – WHY are folks including the Church in Matt 24, when it is very obvious from scripture that the Church is not there at this time?

    Matt 24 is the time of Daniel’s 70th week and we are plainly told in Dan 9:24 that the 70th week is to THY people (Jews, Israel) and THY Holy city (Jerusalem)

    Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


  354. Kevin, Randall,

    with an open mind you can be FREE from that teaching.. which is FALSE End Times Interpretation of Scripture

    KEVIN NOT FOR A SECOND believe this.
    although it seems you were pulled out of it by the GRACE of GOD.
    many now heap fable upon fable upon fable.
    BUT we KNOW……………………….WHAT JESUS SAID
    about the END OF DAYS , and AT HIS COMING.
    NEVER for a ounce………………..stray from what JESUS said
    to hear any man who would contradict what JESUS said.
    THE GOAL of the spirit of anti christ
    is to make all beleivers , believe revelations is already past
    , that it aint a BOOK of prophetic events still to take place.
    WHY would satan do that………………
    WELL……………………..To take eyes of the truth
    and the many signs of the TIMES we NOW BE IN.
    so as to lead many into his mark, which soon shall be given unto the world.
    and much more decptions satan will come with.
    JESUS said what he meant………………he meant what he said.
    i am so determined to stay the course
    i dont even READ what chsa etc even sent.
    MY GOD has given me HIS WORDS…………
    and I FIND them in HIS WORD.
    NOT mens interpreattions which often contradict.
    THE BIBLE………….a book NOnE should have put down for other reads…………YET did for they itched for something new.
    SOLD out………………….SOLD out and not content for the TRUE
    BREAD…………………but crave the bread OF THE WORLD.
    NOT ME……………………
    THE BIBLE , the prophets, CHRIST, the apostles teachings.,
    peter warned STAY IN THEM.
    AND THUS i do, by GODS GRACE .
    I WILL NOT sell the truth and BODLY REFUSE any other reads.
    THOU even HE SLAY ME………………………..STILL i serve HIM
    AMEN. HIS WILL. amen.

  355. We can’t help ourselves but to pour out our lives for Him once we know Him – once we know Him in truth… 🙂

    Love You Lord… 🙂

  356. I witnessed a devil hard at work trying to teach
    that REVELATION or most was completed in seventy AD……
    HE even had the audacity to say HE KNEW more than JESUS did about the book of daniels…………..
    LIES of men of belial…………………
    LIES of pride filled men. I HEAR THEM NOT.
    the new age goal, is the same
    to say REVELATIONS is past already,
    so as to take the eyes of JESUS
    and on the arrival of the coming kings.
    I HEAR them like a deaf man , twice buried under
    ten thousand feet of ocean. I HEAR these men NOT.
    and i shun all their teachings which contradict JESUS teachings.
    I aint attacking chas10 etc//////////
    i am simply warning i already have HEARD this false teaching
    from a PRIDE FILLED man on tbn,
    lies……………Confusion of faces.
    THIS world and many churches are fast turning against
    anyone who holds to these FOUR beliefs.
    .1 the bible is GODS word…………infallible etc.
    .2. the NEED of a born again convesion…………..
    3. those who also say there is a NEED to evangelize
    4. and those who see revelations as future events
    and thus look to it and signs for the end times.
    WE are being categorized as dangerous, or pottential terroist
    they teach that these four beliefs, lead to dangerous extremisim
    views that men must promote destuction to bring on CHRISTS
    LIES of men of belial…………
    YET the public and churches are SWALLOWING it up
    like a BABY on the TEET that cant get enough.
    NOT i………………
    THOUGH this world come against me , though death and destuctions , persecutions and afflictions………..
    of my FAITH.
    and pray ONLY that my enemies be FORGIVNE.
    I have BOUGHT the TRUTH and shall SELL HER NOT.
    LET HIM have ALL GLORY………………whether through my persecutions, my praisses or songs of thanksgving………….AMEN.
    TO GOD be all glory. TO GOD be all glory amen.

  357. Roger (NZ) Apr 30th 2013

    Ken1 – you are correct, 🙂 in my post I should not have referred to ‘church’, in point 2.

    Maybe this is a better way of expressing it..?

    2.Changes in the ‘body of Christ’ or ‘Ekklesia (called out ones)’ – persecution, false prophets, falling numbers, gospel preached to the world.

    I was looking at Jesus words (to His disciples) as prophetic warnings with partial fulfillment in 70AD, also (my belief) to be finally/completely fulfilled in a future ‘end’ time, as Revelation confirms, a time when the ‘church’ which we know as the body of Christ, and consists of born-again believers and followers (both Jew or Gentile) of Christ Jesus our risen Lord, will be persecuted unto death, during a time of tribulation such as never seen before on this Earth.

    Ken1 my friend, I do understand that we disagree on the timing of the ‘snatching away’ – and my comment is not intended to provoke you or anyone else on that subject..

    In His love,

  358. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013

    That`s right on Andrew J. Horton, `The enemy comes along….` & praise the Lord we keep right on focussing on the Lord & discerning truth & error.

    Ken `. That is a good example of interpreting scripture correctly. which leads me to discussing number 2 of Andrew S. `s `5 keys to Discernment.`

    2. Know your Bible.

    We think we know the Word but as I`ve found out through talking to my disciples they had not been taught the correct way to interpret God`s word. They (& I used to also) read the Bible thinking that things were about them, thus making themselves the centre.

    As I taught them & (as eventually I had been taught) that God has His interpretation keys in His word & as they applied them the `muddy waters,` as they called them became clearer. They did say it was difficult for awhile after having placed themselves at the centre to gradually make Christ the centre.

    Saying thus here are a few keys that I have learned, & perhaps others may have some more to share.

    GOD`S KEYS FOR STUDYING HIS WORD by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Christ is the centre & purpose of the written word. All lanes, whether historical, prophetic or symbolic or types lead us to see Christ, His wonderful character & His awesome purposes for mankind. (Luke 24: 27)

    If this key is not applied then people put themselves at the centre picking & choosing what they want.

    God has written His word for us to understand literally, except when indicated as different. (eg. a parable, a symbol)

    The interpretation of these is not left for us to make up or pick & choose, for God Himself explains their meaning either in context or throughout His word.

    (My Rock – the Lord. (Ps. 18: 2) As a trumpet – God`s voice
    (Rev. 1: 10 & 11) etc

    If we don`t apply this key we will end up with every one`s opinion & strange mystical meanings.

    The Body of Christ.

    These are a specific group of people that Christ the head is bringing to maturity in Him. They have an upward call to the third heaven. (Phil. 3: 14 Rev. 3: 21)


    Israel is a different group who will yet fulfill their calling to rule the nations of the world on earth. (Gen. 12: 1 – 3)

    The Nations.

    The nations are another group & they will be judged as to how they treated Israel. (Joel 3: 1 & 2)

    If this key is not used when interpreting scripture then all scripture will be twisted & distorted to make the Body of Christ try to fit in with Israel & the nations.


    * Who is speaking to whom? (Individual/groups)
    * Which people group? (Body of Christ/Israel/Nations)
    * What time period? (before/after Pentecost, before/during/after the tribulation)
    * What does it teach us of Christ? (His character & His Purposes)

    I`m sure others have found good helps also. Marilyn.

  359. NOW…………..in case one does not believe SATAN is the driving FORCE……..behind all this , to lead the world right to ameregeddon. let us look at JESUS own words
    as concerning the HOLY SCRIPS
    LET Us look at what pEter and paul said
    HOLY MEN OF GOD spake as they were moved of THE HOLY SPIRIT…………………or read pauls message to timothy.
    And read what JESUS said
    these events which shall shortly come to pass
    or PETER…………who even said ………….AT THE REVELATION of our LORD……………..
    aka…………….at HIS COMING………….
    JESUS own words…………..HOW SUCH a great dearth has to come, so great, worse than ever, or ever shall be.
    they passed a law which says………………POTENTIAL terroists
    can be rounded up
    and held till deemed not a THREAT.
    and guess what WE ON THAT LIST if you believe in those four things. SATAN is behind this…………and is running many pulpits
    many kings of this world…………IN fact
    satan , the spirit of wickedness is in EVERYONE who KNOWS NOT JESUS. as we all were once part of.
    SO once the STRONG delusion gets sent
    those who rejected the LOVE of the TRUTH
    will think they do gods will, they will believe the new age
    lie of this god man that soon comes.
    and comes to fight against the lambs of GOD.
    and shall destroy many through PEACE
    the whole WORLD and religoins are fast focusing on what
    PEACE and unity………………..PAVING the way RIGHT to this man god , who shall soon blashphem all that is holy.
    and bring war on such a scale as never has been beforee
    to the saints of GOD……………..
    ANYONE still calling upon allah, budda, self, hushi cushi
    or any other name , OTHER THAN CHRIST
    is OF satan. NOT GOD.
    and i shall stand against this new age lie
    of all roads leading to god…………..etc
    EVEN unto my death……………if that is what GOD has planend for me. or till HIS COMING, FOR the LOVE OF CHRIST, comples me warn, warn and warn. amen.

  360. Averyl Apr 30th 2013

    Randall, – I think you meant to refer to Ken1, not Kevin.

    Ken1, – So we disregard the Beatitudes of Matthew 5 because they were spoken to the Jews?

    The “Blessed Economist” on the getrad2 site is the best at this.

  361. chas351 Apr 30th 2013

    In reply
    to some others who have been discussing a side topic on ‘end times’

    Matt24:3 is commonly MIS-INTERPRETED as one question, when in fact it is 3 separate questions, which Jesus answers one at a time.

    Q1. ? when will these things happen?
    Q2. ? what will be the sign of Your coming?
    Q3. ? when is the end of the age?”

    There are NO signs of Jesus Second coming
    He made this very clear with 5 Parables Matt 24:36 – Matt 25:13

    Matt 24:34
    “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

    Regards Q1. & Q2. History Confirms they were completed 70ad.
    Q3. Can happen anytime

    Here is detailed Scriptural Simple Explanation


  362. Averyl Apr 30th 2013

    Bill Kochman had a good site too

    .Have a look at his article “Sorry…Jess is not coming at any moment!

  363. Averyl Apr 30th 2013

    Don’t know what happened there!
    Meant to read “has a good site” & “Jesus is not…”

  364. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013


    Even though you wrote to Ken 1, which he can answer, I realise that people may get that same thought from what I wrote above on the keys regarding the 3 groups.

    Although God has 3 groups of people he deals with, it doesn`t mean we can`t learn from what He says to them. We can learn that `grumbling,` like the children of Israel is not the way to go, or that taking God`s handiwork to ourselves, like the King of babylon can be disastrous – lessons of life.

    However we must always read what God is doing with that group as His ongoing purpose for them not us.

    Hope that helps. Marilyn.

  365. 2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
    2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
    2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
    2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
    2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
    2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
    2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
    2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
    2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
    2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
    2Th 2:12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
    2Th 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    2Th 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
    2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
    2Th 2:17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

  366. I want to lay down a challenge…

    I want to challenge us all who post here to ask ourselves the question, “Have I forsaken all my own possessions to follow Christ?”…

    My own possessions include food, drink, clothing, showers, acceptance by others of my brothers and sisters in the Lord, my house, my car, my bicycle ( 🙂 ), any hope of love in this life, my relationship with my wife, children and grandchildren (as we must love the Lord more than these relationships), my career, my job, my physical provision, my very existence on this planet (or any desire for longevity on this planet), my desire to be happy (Jesus yielded this to take the Cup of Suffering from His Father’s Hand)…

    I have done this…

    And there’s more (there’s always more)…

    Christ is so holy and we have so far to go…

    The closer we get to Him the further we realise we are from Him…

    He is so holy…

    Only the Holy Spirit can do this in us – but have we surrendered ourselves to this eventuality?

    That the Holy Spirit will fill us to all the Fullness of God?

    Isn’t that better than debating exactly when Jesus will return to earth with His Saints to reign?

    He will return to earth with His Saints to reign – Revelation 19 (and other scriptures) tells us this – as long as we are here we are not on the defensive but on the attack-ive ( 🙂 )…

    We are here to see as many as humanly possible come to know Him – that I may present every man complete in Christ – said our brother Paul (with the wisdom given him)…

    I challenge us all – submit yourselves therefore to God – and watch the supernatural begin to “break out” in your lives…

    I’m going deeper into this – to bring my life up to the standard set by our Lord – imitate me as I imitate Christ – said our brother Paul – and I say this today – imitate me as I imitate Christ – and let each of us say this and express to each other the works of Christ through us – as a testimony to our mutual edification in the Name of Jesus…

    Love you all,


  367. Andrew ,

    I want to put what you have said above this way ;

    Have we made anything in our lives an idol, that we would not lay down in order to serve our Lord Jesus Christ ?

    Do we care about things in our lives more than we care about being effective servants to our Lord Jesus Christ ?

    Are we attached to any of ” our ” possessions , in a way that we would not give them up or use them in service to our Lord ?

    The bottom line is are we willing to what is asked of us by our Lord Jesus Christ , in order to serve Him effectively ?


    Now in consideration to the above questions, I want us all to realize that our Lord Jesus Christ knew us before we where formed in the womb.

    He knew what country and times we would be born into.

    And knowing this He has given us all that we need to become effective servants for Him.

    Why I say this , is that we can often become distracted and deceived ” chasing rainbows ” looking for shortcuts.

    Our Lord Jesus Christ has placed us all exactly where He wants us to be in order to learn and grow and overcome what is needed in order to serve Him effectively.

    Often time we all make the mistake of trying to force His hand or manipulate Him , or to be waiting for Him to move, when in fact He is waiting for us to clean up our own back yard in terms of our relationships with others .

    The limitation is always on our side of the covenant.

    There is no limitation on the side of Lord Jesus Christ !

  368. Andrew ,

    Regarding the ongoing issues that come up online in terms of progressing anything without becoming distracted.

    What we are doing here is like if the early church was holding a meeting in the middle of the Colosseum while the gladiators were in action.

    The early church used to meet in private when they wanted to ‘progress ” things.

    I believe that this is a common problem in western fellowships in that they have public meetings which are some what open season , when they should be meeting in private to encourage each other and discern what the Lord wants of them, and then go out into public to minister .

    I believe that this was the pattern of the early church.

  369. Andrew ,

    Regarding seeing the supernatural break out in your lives;

    From my own experience when I have seen the supernatural of our Lord Jesus Christ in operation, I was never overly prepared before hand.

    In all cases I knew I had to go and be at a certain place and that was it.

    In my obedience to go and override the very real insecurities and lack of knowing how things were going to play out, I could only be dependent on Him and not my own understanding.

    An example of this was about ten years ago being prompted to call in on some people I had not seen for a long time.
    Upon arrival I could see that they had a very sick 3yr old daughter.

    I, me , wanted to blurt out about healing from Christ, however our Lord prompted me to say nothing and to wait until they put there daughter to bed, then to simply ask them if they wanted to come in and pray for her.

    We all went in later that night, I could not speak, such was the presence of the fire of our Lord. All I could do was stand there with tears running down my cheeks.

    I knew He had healed her right there and then.

    The marriage was in trouble and neither parent was a believer. I had to leave early the following morning.

    Naturally I was like Lord , what about the situation, surely you don’t want me to leave them now ?

    He showed me that the matter was now all in His hands.

    About a year ago I happened to catch up with the father of the girl. I hadn’t seen him or had any contact with him since the time I was prompted to call in.

    The first thing he said to me was Kevin you remember when you called in and God healed our daughter !

    He told me that his daughter from that day on was a believer in Lord Jesus Christ , and still today told people about how Jesus healed her . He had become a believer as well.

    Notice that the focus was on Jesus , not on me.

    Praise our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.

    He reaches people by His spirit.

    He reveals Himself to them

    He heals and restores broken lives .

    Praise your Holy name

  370. Amen Kevin, Thank you for your testimony, This is what builds our corporate faith, Praise the Lord… 🙂

  371. Joshua called together the entire Israelite community before his death and challenged them, “Choose you this day whom you will serve”…

    I feel that it has come to this in the West – time for a definite decision as to whether we will serve the Lord or continue to serve mammon…

    We will experience the supernatural working of God if we surrender to Him to do what only He can do…

    If we don’t all we’ll do is sit around talking…

    Or being deceived by false manifestations because we haven’t surrendered ourselves to the Lord but are trying to hold on to our own lives…

  372. Andrew,

    A few things to consider regarding money/ mammon..

    Money is not the problem , it is the attitude towards money that is the problem.

    We can mistakenly have the same attitude towards ministry as we can have towards money, in that if we seek money or ministry for acceptance and validation from others, then the underlying attitude of being self seeking puts us in need of repentance unto Christ.

    I believe a much bigger problem than mammon , within the western “church ” , is the underlying attitudes and motive with regard to seeking revival.

    Many make the mistake of not examining their true underlying motives when seeking the things of God.

    If we have any element of human endeavor , we find ourselves in a situation where our Lord Jesus Christ will not bless or validate the works of man.

    He will only glorify that which is in His will of His doing.

    So it can be quite a common mistake in the west to become organized and stand together on scripture believing in faith, not realizing that it is all of our own endeavor, and that in doing so we are seeking to apply a biblical example to our circumstances that could well not be Christs will for us at this time .

    Unless we are absolutely certain that we are actually in His will , we could spend a lot of time hoping and believing to no avail.

    This is the area that I believe the old foe has had a field day with intercessors , giving them visions of Godly things , that the fellowship ends up ” striving ” for with out ever asking and seeking confirmation that what they are seeking is in His will..

    We seem to be reluctant in the west to examine and weigh prophecy and visions , seeking confirmation that they are actually in His will for us at this time.

    This is how the old foe gets away with running interference as many wont want to question something that is backed up by scripture to see if is truly what Christ wants them to seek at the time.

    For we are only in His will if we seek to do His will.

    Food for thought.

    In His love


  373. Zululander Apr 30th 2013

    Andrew & Kevin a few posts back you both hit the nail on the head about giving all to CHrist.
    The bible calls it dying to self & you’re both correct, but the burning issue is HOW does one do it? To say make a decision is correct but not altogether as it is your decision based on your will power. It is understood a decision HAS to be made though.
    Rom12:1-2….How? is what everyone struggles with.
    In MY experience, in practical term,s it means every little decision I make in life must be in accordance with Gods will, taking no concern of the consequences to myself.
    This is a long discussion which I don’t have time for now but in my role as a disciple one has to be very practical & God adds the miraculous.
    I have told my pastor & a few I have a great relationship with that if they only tell the folk what to do & not how to do it theyre wasting their time & making folk feel guilty as they want to be obedient but don’t know HOW. That’s discipling, not just handing out advice.
    You guys can add a lot to this.

  374. Zululander , yes what you say is how I see it , especially regarding Rom 12 : 1-2.

    What Christ showed me regarding how to , is was simply to come to Him daily, surrendering up my mind will and emotions unto Him, asking Him to cleanse me and set me free from all that wasn’t of His truth.

    Doing this can be challenging at first as we make time to sit and wait on Him, as opposed to telling Him what we want.

    However if we do this by faith , He will transform our minds , which will enable us to know Him and His will more clearly through our thoughts, which become directed by Him.

    The biggest resistance I see to people doing this , is that self wants to protect its stash and stay in control, so people will reject doing this as unnecessary , often claiming that all has been done through the death and resurrection of Jesus .

    However salvation is one thing, and transformation is another.
    Our desires of our flesh are always against the desires of the Spirit.

    So surrendering our self will unto Him daily along with what we think we know about Him along with our feelings and emotions , is what He led me to do right from the start , in order to dis-empower the strength of my educated intellect, and lead me to a place where I could more clearly understand and see his promptings for me.

    This was what led to me being prompted to go to certain places at certain times , and to know what say or not say in order to serve Him.

    The old nature , self, the flesh does not want to submit its mental power and knowledge unto Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is a very real problem with us educated western christians in that we in our own self endeavor seek knowledge of Gos on our own terms , then try and apply that knowledge in service unto Him.

    The result are works of self righteousness that lack the power and presence of His Holy Spirit, as we are really walking in our own strength.

    This is a big stumbling block in the west , as we don’t want to become as children and lat down our lofty intellects unto Him.

  375. above should read ,,,knowledge of Gods,,,,

    ,,,,and lay down our lofty ,,,,,,,

  376. See the ultimate deception of the pharisees was to think they could know God by knowledge alone, and then use the scriptures to validate the authority they were claiming over others.

    It is not until we submit our minds and take captive all our lofty imagination unto Christ , that we will come to really know Him personally on the inside , in a real way that He can direct our thoughts to prompt us and guide us in His will, or correct us and bring us to repentance for the works of our flesh.

    An unsurrendered mind always shows the fruit of defensiveness and becoming offended, and we know that this fruit os not of Christ.

  377. Marilyn Crow, and all,
    In your comment you mentioned were to know our Bible which is one of the five keys to discernment in this article.

    I agree and understand what you are saying. But I was thinking about this and thought, if you read all of the comments on the many different articles given here it almost sounds like,

    we all “know” a different Bible.

    The ironic part is each individual feels they are right and correct in their view of the Bible.

    Maybe it will always be like this till the Lord returns and sets everything in order. You would think we would all at least agree on the major doctrines.

    Didn’t Paul say somewhere, were to be of one mind?


  378. Roger (NZ) Apr 30th 2013

    GaryB – it was Paul who had a doctrinal disagreement with Peter, wasn’t it..?

    Yes, we are to be of one mind – I believe that comes back to each one of us, each individual, continually going through the process of submitting and surrendering every part of our life to, and for, the use of Lord Jesus.

    We may all be somewhere along that path of submission, but the fact that we are not of one mind is proof that we aren’t there yet…

    I know I’m not – and I recognise that fact, so, I can, (and do) pray as Kevin shared earlier.

    In His love,

  379. Roger (NZ) Apr 30th 2013

    I was reading (again) Romans 12 – not just the verses mentioned above, but the whole chapter.

    It is worth considering that whilst we know we are to be ‘Christlike’, we sometimes forget that He came to serve.

    We are to be servants at this time.

    Sometimes, we may get ahead of ourselves and believe that we are already reigning with Lord Jesus, before we are fully prepared, before He has completed His work in each member of His body.

    This is why we need, we must, fully surrender and submit to His Lordship in, and over, our life.

  380. fabakary Apr 30th 2013

    GaryB I think the problem is emphasizing the Knowledge of things Christ will do rather than the knowledge of Christ himself or knowing Christ. So much divisions can come about speculating those things that are yet to be , while speaking less of those things that Can be now, which is an intimate Knowledge of Christ.
    No body can be change by mere accepting of opinion however true they maybe . Sometimes we are more satisfy when people accepts our opinion , even when they are not building a deeper relationship with the Lord.One of the greatest strive among God children is about who is the greatest among us, like in the case of the apostle . Someone who is fighting for greatness want to be obey, and that mean there will be an appeal of the flesh to force , his views and opinion on people rather than persuading people to come to Know Christ , to be taught and guided by Him. One sign of division is we tend to care more about opinion of things to come etc than the personal knowledge of Christ . The opinion may be true , yet the knowledge of Christ Void. Our unity is basically based on our growing Knowledge of Christ . To have one mind is to have THE MIND OF CHRIST, He that have the MIND of Christ will know how to handle differences, and he will be compassionate towards the weak , and those with a limited Knowledge even of the future as Christ is. He that Knows God or Christ will put Love above His opinions because Christ is Love. This is the Mind of Christ , and this is the One mind that we need .the Major doctrines is the Mind of Christ, the knowledge of Christ. If we are seeking the one mind by seeking those that will agree with everything that we say before we love or fellowship with them , then we are not operating from the Mind of Christ, because Christ fellowship with His disciples though they not not understand or agree many of His sayings. If we have that mind we extend the same attitude to others of his children.

  381. Hi Zululander,

    In a nutshell, once we know our identity, acceptance and inheritance in Christ then we know what the therefore is there for in Romans 12:1-2 which is what I believe my brother Kevin is saying… 🙂

    Ephesians and Colossians follow the same pattern as Romans…

    Setting out what God has done and made us and then, the “therefore” moment…

    Not out of fear, not out of being shamed, not out of being bullied but out of gratitude we are called to willingly lay down our lives for Christ…

    To serve Him – because we understand what He freely did for us – how secure we are in Him – how sure our inheritance is and how favoured we are to have had His love lavished on us…

    Love in the Lord brother (I believe you’re a brother rather than a sister),


  382. Regarding being of one mind as Paul directed , this only comes about if the one mind we share is the mind of Christ.

    Sadly much of the division over scripture is driven by self righteous unsurrendered minds seeking validation and acceptance from others.

    The other problem comes from different spirit that still comes in the name of Jesus, however serves satan ;

    2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

    Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

  383. From what I have seen even new believers that are of the same spirit do not contend with one another.

    Most of the contention over the identity of Christ is driven by the different spirits that come in His name.

    Th real Lord Jesus Christ gives insight and acceptance of things yet to come along with the peace that surpasses understanding

  384. Roger
    I thought what Kevin shared was very good.

    Now that you mentioned it, I also remembered when Paul and Barnabas ended up in a heated debate over who should go with them to minister. It was so bad they left in two different directions rather then ministering together.

    Its just that to know your Bible as stated in this five keys of discernment sometimes brings division. I don’t think God intended it to be that way.

    I agree with what you say though, I got a long way to go myself.

    To know Him is the real prize worth pursuing.

    I don’t see it as all being negative here, there is a lot of good things being shared that causes a man to want to draw nearer to God.

    May the Lord bless you brother.


  385. James, do you confess that Jesus of Nazareth is God – was always God, was God while He was on earth and is still God now?

  386. Kevin,
    You have shared some very good things here. Was blessed by your comments brother.

    I am believing I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me and He will enable me to walk in them as He walked.

    Like someone shared, I’m a work in progress.

    Lord Bless

  387. One more thing,

    I’m surprised all you brothers are up at this hour its 4:30AM in the States. It must be daylight in NZ. 🙂


  388. I am believing I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me and He will enable me to walk in them as He walked.

    Amen brother Gary, your faith is beautiful to the Lord… 🙂

  389. fabakary Apr 30th 2013

    Andrew J Horton, Yes I believe Jesus is God Almighty , yesterday , today and forever ,Brother not through opinion but by revelation.

  390. Beautiful, Thank you James, I rejoice with you… 🙂

  391. fabakary Apr 30th 2013

    You are a dear Brother Andrew j Horton , Stay bless.

  392. I will (because the Lord has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus our Lord) James, Be blessed… 🙂

  393. fabakary Apr 30th 2013

    God blessed you Andrew J horton from bringing forth that scripture about our spiritual blessing in Christ being in the heavenly place, that scripture motivates me to look Upward in Christ. Speaking of union. We are indeed blessed in him.

  394. GaryB , it is 11pm here in NZ .

    The revelation I was given at the start of my journey with our Lord Jesus Christ was that of an overhead projector with two transparencies on it with scribble all over it.

    In this dream I was shown that the pure light from the projector represented the power and truth of Christ our Lord.

    The two transparencies with the scribble all over them represented my unrenewed mind will and emotions which hindered the passage of the true light of Christ into my life.

    The image of my body in the dream showed the effects of all the scribble on and in my physical body.

    I was very sick at the time. The clear simple message I received from our Lord Jesus Christ , was to ask Him for cleansing, not healing.

    To ask Him for cleansing of all that was not of His light and love so that which hindered and blocked the presence of His life giving light would be taken from me.

    I did this , and over a period of about 2 months He completely healed and restored me physically , and started to impart His principles and truth unto me.

    I came from a place of not knowing the bible or being in any Christian fellowship.

    In His grace and mercy He reached out to me in my hour of need when I finally got to a place in my life where I wanted to know the truth about God.

    When our Lord eventually had me buy a bible and start to read it directed by His prompting , I was amazed to see that what is written is the truth .

    Because of what He had delivered me from some of the first things He showed me in His written word were Rom 12 1-2 as confirmation of what He had revealed to me at the start.

    He also showed me the passages in 2 Cor 11 and Matt 7 about the other spirit that comes in His name, the ones I have quoted above.

    He did this as I thought I knew Christ through the new age stuff, however as I discovered I knew nothing until I met Him in person and He delivered me from my afflictions and the demonic powers that come in His name, that seek to flatter us with their words and impress us with their spiritual insights , all the time seeking to control us and have us thinking we are following truth.

    This is who I am in Christ, He laid His foundations in me from the start , and showed me personally about the deceiver who comes in His name .

    Praise be to the one true living Lord Jesus Christ !

    for He delivered be from my afflictions and set me free !

    Praise you Lord Jesus Christ for you are the way and the truth and the life !

    Praise your Holy Name !

  395. GaryB , it has been over 20 years since our Lord and savior gatecrashed my life and revealed Himself to me.

    Over that time He has always imparted , revealed His truths to me by His spirit first, and then confirmed them with His written word.

    He did this for me, for He knew that I was an educated cynical man who would not have received teachings from traditional christian sources, and He knew that if I had only acquired knowledge of Him that my mind would have started to doubt and that I would have fallen away.

    I believe that many struggle when they are yet to experience our Lords truth in a way that takes them beyond doubt and uncertainty.

    He showed me that He is the one that the bible refers to as The Word of God . That the bible does not refer to its self as the Word of God.

    That if we would only seek Him in truth and Spirit, surrendering our minds unto Him , that He would impart His truths unto us in a way that can not be shaken, and in this way we would know that as it is written , so it shall be.

    Praise be to the living risen Holy Word of God

    Lord Jesus Christ

    King of Kings

    Lord of Lords

    Name above all Names

    Praise you Lord Jesus Christ

  396. GaryB, what I have shared above here about my personal walk with our Lord Jesus Christ, is really a revelation of Him , and His willingness to meet us where ever we are at , when we seek Him and His truth.

    We are all a work in progress , however when Christ becomes the dominant force in our mind through transformation and surrender unto Him, He can guide us and use us to serve Him.

    He only needs to transform just over 50 % of our mind and our mind comes under His authority enabling Him to guide us and deal with the flesh that will remain with us and resist Him until the time He gives us our glorified spiritual bodies.

    As Paul said, why did he find himself wanting to do the things he knows aren’t wright , wrestling against the flesh, however as we can see Paul was surrendered enough unto our Lord Jesus Christ, that Christ did many mighty things through Paul’s life , for the glory of His Kingdom.

    praise our Lord Jesus Christ

    for as we surrender unto Him , he reveals Himself through us , enabling us to become effective servants for Him.

  397. Darren Sargent Apr 30th 2013

    in principle you are right and I agree wholeheartedly, but the principle itself is often never enough.
    We are either renewed in the mind or not, our minds are either set on the Spirit or not. We either walk blamelessly or not. A divided mind is a divided heart and it cannot please God. The mind set on the flesh opposes itself and, most importantly, God. It cannot please God. At a moment’s notice we can resurrect the zombie of the flesh. All we have to do is look at the fall of David. That 50% we thought we were hitting now drops to minus infinity!
    Therefore, I would avoid degrees and percentages – makes me twitchy in my spirit, reminds me of the numbers of men. We can never judge for ourelves what percentage is renewed – we are simply repsonsible for that part which is conscious and deliberate, and to us it should feel like 100% – not perfection, but entire concentration upon Him. To comfort ourselves that we are over 50% there maybe false comfort or, on the other hand, it may undermine the salvation of God.

    Blessings to you all.

  398. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 30th 2013

    This is a wonderful direction of heart for posts; His return, His Beloved, Her preparation, Her departure,We look to a wedding feast of One Family- all separations removed forever. None have set themselves upon a specific date, but upon Christ Himself. She stirs to readying, as His Bride. She may be apprehensive do to much detail, though eager for that day. Thankyou all, for the flow of unity in areas of differing understanding. Deference in love has taken the lead. I am learning here, as I believe we all are. Please excuse any misprints. Our computer is temporally routed through a monitor which distorts letter definition-resolution. I dread to think what may be spelled wrongly. 🙂 Part arrived in mail, should fix soon.

    re: I want to challenge us all who post here to ask ourselves the question, “Have I forsaken all my own possessions to follow Christ?”…

    My own possessions include food, drink, clothing, showers, acceptance by others of my brothers and sisters in the Lord, my house, my car, my bicycle ( ), any hope of love in this life, my relationship with my wife, children and grandchildren (as we must love the Lord more than these relationships), my career, my job, my physical provision, my very existence on this planet (or any desire for longevity on this planet), my desire to be happy (Jesus yielded this to take the Cup of Suffering from His Father’s Hand)…

    I commend you as God takes you on this journey of sacrifice. You have seen clearly to put all earthly treasures upon an altar unto Him. May He strengthen you in the inner man with great faith, perseverance and resolve. I do not believe we desires/requires less than what He has pressed upon your heart through the Scriptures. Though, such sacrifice brings great testings. I believe he may have also pressed sorely the heart of some having gone before us. Earthly men with surrendered hearts. For,

    “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” – Jim Elliot

    “May the Lamb that was slain, receive the reward of His suffering” –
    – Two Young Moravian Missionaries http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DlrsFy4Qd8

    AJH, Persevere in Him!

    God Bless all who have set their hearts upon that Lamb that was slain. Our love and obedience to His challenges are truly reward to Him, for so great a suffering for us. He has paid a great price for our hearts.

    Hebrews 12:1-2
    1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
    2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

  399. Jordan Shepherd Apr 30th 2013


    What a delight to learn that your name represents that beautiful song introduced to me some 18 years ago. I love that song and the words in it. I love to sing it still. I appreciate you taking the time to write those fine lyrics. I love to praise God daily. There is always a song in my heart and I have seen and can testify how the Lord manifests His presence during praise. He inhabits the praises of His people.

    Here is a brief testimony:

    I was teaching high school 14 year old male students at a Christian outdoor education campus over here in Australia. The boys (most of whom are not saved) would stay for four weeks and partake of a program that included Christian Education, Academic and Outdoor Adventure components. The Christian education also consisted of devotion, Church meetings and thousands of impromptu questions which I loved to answer and accompany with testimonies of the goodness and the power of God.

    At the beginning of one camp I told the boys that God had inspired me with a song I sung in Church many years before but for a very short period of time. I know when God brings to my remembrance certain praise songs. What happens is that I recall every word of te song without hesitation, though it was sung for a short period, years ago. My wife still asks: How can you remember every word, it was so long ago and so short lived on the “song list”. I tell her it is the Holy Spirit, not me.

    I told the students what God was doing and proceeded to teach them the song: “Love You So Much” (Hear these praises from a grateful heart) by Don Moen. We only spent around 7 minutes singing and learning the song.

    For the next four weeks, the students could be heard all around the campus singing the song, during all kinds of tasks, stating that they just keep on singing it. The Lord did wonders during that camp. There was a joy in the hearts of all students and staff not seen until that time. The Lord broke into our lives and the Holy Spirit made known to us that which would glorify and point us, to Jesus.

    Since then, the Holy Spirit has taught the song to all four of my children and they love to sing it. Two weeks ago, my good friend was getting married and as the ‘Best Man’ I asked the grooms-men and groom: “Does anyone have a song?” The Groom immediately sung: “Love You So Much.” He had been singing that praise to God with my family during a meeting at my house a couple of years prior to his wedding day.

    The minister of the Church (did not know any grooms-men since we travelled 1000 kms to attend the wedding) said he had never heard nor seen such a scene outside the Church while the Grooms-men tarried for the bride. It was a beautiful picture – glory again to Jesus.

    I just tracked a YT version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDMsVbmK9W4

    Lyrics, as follows:

    “Hear these praises from a grateful heart
    Each time I think of You
    The praises start
    Love You so much, Jesus
    Love You so much

    Lord, I love You, my soul sings
    In Your presence
    Carried on Your wings
    Love You so much, Jesus
    Love You so much

    How my soul longs for you
    Longs to worship You forever
    In Your power and majesty
    Lift my hands, lift my heart
    Lift my voice towards the heavens
    For You are my sun and shield

    Hear these praises from a grateful heart
    Each time I think of You
    The praises start
    Love You so much, Jesus
    Love You so much”

    Love God Always 🙂

  400. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 30th 2013

    Jordan Shepherd,
    re: “ou taking the time to write those fine lyrics” I simply cut and pasted 🙂

    re: “always a song in my heart”
    YES! As well there should be in each of us! We are the Redeemed, If we are silent of God’s goodness, the very stones will cryout. He is our Song and Rejoicing as Christs’. David knew God differently than we do. He too had continual praised flowing out, of the Spirit of God upon him; the evil spirit fleeing Saul through music and the rejoicing heart of God’s servant David.1 Sam. 16:23.

    We love hymns, some contemporary, and Zemar Levav music.
    Zemer Levav, pronounced (ZEM-er Leh-VAHV), are the Hebrew words, Song of the Heart.
    http://zemerlevav.org/fr_home.cfm this music is so rich in Scripture. We have all their music, and soar with eagles when listening to the teachings of the Word put into beauty of song. Here is the home site, turn volume on and listen. The songs will run continuously. ‘he Telling’, is the second song. Beautiful saga of some of the Elect. I do agree, what’s learned in song is remembered long. God is WISE! 😀
    Try to listen to ‘The Weapons of Our Warfare’ on Zemar’s site. as well. About 3rd or 4th in the songs played.

    re: “The groom immediately sang..
    re: “..while the grooms-men terried for the bride.. terried for the bride..

    Do you suppose our Groom sings a song of longing and joy as He awaits His Brides Perfected Heart? What a cause for song we have!
    Your post has been such a joy as I see and hear the “song in your heart”.

    Thanks for such an inspiring post. May God Bless you with a heart ever singing His Praises!

  401. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 30th 2013

    Jordan Shepherd
    I’m sorry. Thanyour for the link. I look forward to having an opportunity to listen! How exciting. I have some pressing responsibilities approaching ( 4 yr. old grandchild). Our son took her on a walk to an adjoining school property yesterday. She climbed the bleachers,seated herself, and instructed our adult son to, “Do some tricks”! LOL! Gotta love kids!

  402. Dear Averyl, you said
    Ken1, – So we disregard the Beatitudes of Matthew 5 because they were spoken to the Jews?

    I would not say disreguard, as ALL scripture is profitable (2 Tim 3:16)

    Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: “for they shall inherit the earth”

    “for they shall inherit the earth”

    “for they (Israel) shall inherit the earth”

    Our inheritance is “heaven”

    Matt is a very Jewish book with little doctrine to the Church in it.

    Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not”

    “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not”

    This is NOT the Gospel of Grace that Paul spoke of.

    Matt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    This is the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to the Nation Israel, that Jesus would have set up there and then IF the Nation Israel had excepted their Messiah

    It is the Nation Israel that the focus is on, in the Gospels BUT then –

    Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    And as we know the Church was born at Pentecost, after the Nation Israel rejected their Messiah and His Kingdom.

    The “Gospel of the Kingdom” and Pauls Gospel are NOT one and the same.

    The “Gospel of the Kingdom” Go not into the way of the Gentiles.

    Pauls Gospel, is to everyone who will “believe”

    The Gospel was to the Jew first –

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; “to the Jew first, and also to the Greek”

    “to the Jew first”

    In the time of the seven year tribulation it will be back to Israel and preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” And we know it WILL be set up this time, after the tribulation.

    Matt 24:14 And this “gospel of the kingdom” shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    And this “gospel of the kingdom” shall be preached in all the world.

    Please do not missunderstand me, there is some doctrine to the Church in the four Gospels, the most being in John and the least being in Matt.

    1 Cor 10:6-11, tell us that what we read, of what “was to” the Jew, are exsamples for us and for our learning.

    1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


  403. Praise the Lord for what you are sharing Kevin, your encounter with the Lord and your subsequent healing and the transformation (practical) of your mind which you have been experiencing…

    In answer to Darren’s comment, as we have been discussing in recent threads, the miracle of the new birth is that the Lord gives us a righteous soul, a new heart and a new spirit at regeneration…

    So in one sense we have the Mind of Christ right from regeneration but we need to be practically transformed by the renewing of our mind as the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to our new mind (our new self is perfect but is like a baby and needs nourishing food to grow – starting with milk and then later on meat – Jesus grew in wisdom even though He was God right from the start) which is part of our righteous soul – this is the work of the Holy Spirit within us and proves that we are not illegitimate children but true sons…

    The work of the Holy Spirit within us to reveal the truth in our innermost being and the ensuing war between “sin within me” and the Holy Spirit is proof of our salvation – no war, no salvation…

    I understand what you mean Kevin as I have experienced it…

    The Lord has used percentages with me also (on a couple of occasions) – I believe He does it to encourage us… 🙂

    Praise the Lord for your testimony – may you be used to bring many more to Him… 🙂

  404. Thank you for your encouragement HHHLGA, That means a lot to me, Love in the Lord, Andrew… 🙂

  405. Hi Jordan, I’m really buzzing about your testimony about that song and the sharing of it, Praise the Lord that’s awesome, You’re encouraging me to “go and do likewise” where I work… 🙂

  406. Lightning Storm Apr 30th 2013

    AMEN Kevin.

    Your words are truth. You have described the tutelage of the Holy Spirit.

    Isn’t it interesting that Jesus thought the MOST IMPORTANT “going away gift” ” parting gift” to those who He loved and cared for was THE HOLY SPIRIT!!

    Jesus’s last instructions and last prayers to His disciples had nothing to do with knowing the scriptures, memorizing the scriptures, or teaching other people the scriptures.

    Jesus pointed to the Holy Spirit after He was resurrected. Jesus didn’t even point to the cross and tell them to REMEMBER the cross. He told them to pray to the Father and to LOOK FORWARD TO THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT HE WAS SENDING THEM.


  407. Lightning Storm Apr 30th 2013

    Some people read the bible and there is where they sit and stay.

    Some people come to the cross and there is where they sit and stay.

    But Jesus died for MORE THAN THAT!

    If you came to the cross to avoid hellfire and brimstone, than that is ALL YOU WILL RECEIVE!

    If you came to the cross to prove Jesus is God to the people of the world, than that is ALL YOU WILL RECEIVE!

    If you came to the cross to prove anything, than that is ALL YOU WILL RECEIVE!


    He doesn’t need mud dwellers like us.

    GOD IS BIG ENOUGH to take care of His Creation too.

    Just because His Ways do not “measure up” to the “ways” we think things “should” be, does NOT means that GOD needs our help.

    Rom 3:10 NASB
    as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

    Rom 3:11 NASB

    Rom 3:12 NASB

    We are all physically born in darkness and deception.
    Those who deny this are liars according to the scriptures.

    When we are born again, we receive a “pin dot” of Light within ourselves AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHO IS the POWER AND LIGHT.

    It is ONLY when we YIELD to the POWER AND CONTROL of the Holy Spirit, that He exchanges pieced of our deception and darkness for the TRUTH, THE WAY, AND THE LIFE OF JESUS.

  408. Lightning Storm Apr 30th 2013

    should read “..He exchanges PIECES of our deception and darkness….”

  409. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 30th 2013


    I haven’t read every word of all threads above. You referenced
    “He exchanges PIECES of our deception and darkness….”
    I did a ctrl-F search, finding nothing. Perhaps I didn’t go back far enough? Would you please clarify a resource for a further study of the concept you referenced from Kevin’s prior post? Thanks 🙂

  410. Kevin,
    I was blessed by your testimony. It is always refreshing to hear what God has done in a mans life.

    I understand completely what you meant about any percentages, I realize its a figure of speech. I use it all the time as well.

    Lord Bless

  411. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 30th 2013

    a figure of speech…Gotit! 😀

  412. I felt that the Lord wanted me to share, further to my last comment to Kevin, that the milk of the word is an understanding of our identity, acceptance and inheritance in Christ and the meat of the word is an understanding and submission to our offering up our entire lives as a sacrifice on His Altar in response to what we now understand from the milk of the word regarding what He accomplished for us on the cross…

    I see this as iterative…

    i.e. we don’t ever stop drinking milk… 🙂

    I drink a lot of milk – it is my favourite drink – even though I am an adult…

    I also enjoy eating New Zealand lamb (and beef)… 🙂

    My point is that as we grow in our appreciation of what Christ did for us when He died and rose again and how we were united with Him in His death and resurrection and also in His ascension to the Right Hand of the Father in heaven – he who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him – which is the milk of the word – then we are able to receive the meat, i.e. lay your life down as a living sacrifice the same way I did for you…

    So we continue to need the milk but we also more and more – on the foundation of the milk – can receive the meat…

    If you try to eat meat as a baby before you’ve been established on milk it won’t work… 🙂

    Love in the Lord,


  413. Fabakary,

    I read your post but had to leave for work this morning.

    I agree with what you shared, the scripture that came to mind while reading it was:

    Philippians 2:5-6

    5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

    Lord Bless,

  414. LGA,

    I hope it was understandable. 🙂

    Thanks for the tip on ctrl f search. It helped me look up the post on divine healing to see what was being said.


  415. Lightning Storm Apr 30th 2013

    HHHLGA…. I did not quote Kevin at all.

  416. fabakary Apr 30th 2013

    Amen GaryB that scripture speaks it very well, the mind of Christ is not something complex, it is given to all of us to have it, that we may be able to dwell in lowliness with other brethren, regardless of our spiritual statues, experiences, knowledge of mysteries etc because all of us are not growing at the same rate , no receiving the same graces at the same measure. Without this mind , our different knowledge of “mysteries“ etc will rather serve to divide us than unite us. It pleases Christ to see His children walk in love , wishing the best for another etc but it makes Satan to be angry , for he cannot stand the weapon Christ defeated Him with that mind, and with only such a mind can we defeat His works.

  417. HolyHolyHolyLGA Apr 30th 2013

    GaryB, Yes, and thank you! The search helps me as well, especially when our computer is ill! Word resolution is poor at this time.

    LightingStorm, re: HHHLGA…. I did not quote Kevin at all.

    I am very sorry for misunderstanding. I truly meant no harm.

  418. RogerNZ, sorry i should have wrote earlier to you, bless you, and i do not see you in any way as provoking me or anyone else, i see you as a good Brother. As you said, we differ on our timing of the “snatching away” which is true but if i came across to you in a harsh way, i truly apoligise and ask your forgivenes.

    Blessings my friend.

  419. Darren, what you shared above is the ideal place to be in Christ.

    My words regarding % where to encourage those who struggle with the desires of the flesh that bombard their thoughts at time .

  420. Marilyn

    Bless you dear friend and everyone else, sorry i am just getting caught up on what all has been, i did skim some things earlier, when i had limited time.

    Blessings all.

  421. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013

    It`s been a privelege to `eaves drop,` on you fellows `camp fire,` sharing. I could see you all after a hards days ride & working gathering round the camp fire sharing of your lives & of the Lord. It was very special especially as us females don`t always hear your hearts.

    Gary B.

    Way back you said (& I agree)

    `it almost sounds like we all `know,` a different Bible & maybe it will always be like this till the Lord returns. Didn`t Paul say somewhere, we`re to be of one mind?`

    My thoughts are that we are in the unity of the Spirit, (Eph. 4:1 …to preserve the unity of the Spirit) & that the Lord is bringing us to the Unity of the Faith, (Eph. 4: 13) what we believe about Christ.

    The beliefs that Christ by His Holy Spirit has led us all to are that –

    1. Christ is our saviour.
    2. We are buried with Him in baptism.
    3. Christ anoints us by His Holy Spirit & gives various gifts to the Body.
    4.Christ the Head, ministers to us through the Holy Spirit & His five fold aspect of Headship.

    These we would all agree & maybe discuss various small points. And we are standing firm on these truths of Christ. However there is one more great truth of Christ that is yet to be understood clearly.

    5. Christ`s Eternal Purposes.

    This aspect of Christ has yet to be clarified across the Body, that is why there is so many different views. This has not been a focus previously as other great truths of Christ needed to be addressed.

    Some people think it doesn`t matter `heaven or earth,` as long as we are loving or it will all pan out etc. And yes we need to be loving & not fight against flesh & blood or have ceaseless arguements or strife.

    However the Lord has written to us concerning where He desires for us to go, & why He wants us there with Him.

    It was` for the joy set before Him` that He `endured…`(Heb. 12: 2)

    It is Christ`s heart that He is sharing with us. He has given us our provision for the journey (salvation) & on the way, (the Holy Spirit & ministries) yet He would have us to know `where,` is our destination & why. It is His heart`s desire.

    This is the final truth of Himself that the Lord told us to share with our disciples, with all the other wonderful truths of our Lord.

    He has led us thus far & He will lead us ……..home.


  422. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013

    Thank you Ken 1 for your encouragement. Have a good day & everyone else also. It`s a privilege to be on the journey with you all.

  423. chas351 Apr 30th 2013

    question to anyone

    ~am trying to discern the spirit behind this teaching,,, and i cant refute it so far..?? the first 20mins

    calling on the Holy Spirit Baptism / fire of God
    pleading the Blood of Jesus
    pray pray pray


    mentions an angelic encounter,, but so what?

    sunny NZ

  424. Marilyn
    I really love your interpation on “who is been spoken to” and i believe that is of the upmost importance, in rightly dividing the Word, in these last days.

    Bless you Marilyn dear friend.

  425. Roger (NZ) Apr 30th 2013

    Ken1 – I read no harshness, just wanted to clarify my ‘thoughts’ at the time of typing.

    Tisn’t easy, is it..? trying to share with a few words, when one can’t ‘see’ the joy and love expressed.

    Blessings my friend, in Christ Jesus our Lord 🙂

  426. chas, it is a lie from the pit of hell.


  427. RogerNZ,

    Every blessing to you my friend and i understand everything that you are saying.

    Blessings my friend.

  428. chas351 Apr 30th 2013


    please quote scripture to prove that what was preached is false?

    did you actually listen?

    what you have said is to NOT ask for the Holy Spirit, NOT Pray, NOT Worship God….

    maybe i’m talking to the wrong person


  429. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013

    Thought you`d all like this to lift our spirits.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch popup?v=GBaHPND2QJg+ feature=youtu.be

    Shows how we are all part of God`s great orchestra.


  430. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013

    Try again

    http://www.youtube.com/watch popup?v=GBaHPND2QJg+feature=youtu.be

  431. Marilyn Crow Apr 30th 2013

    Perhaps someone else can get it right for me?

  432. Quote: mentions an angelic encounter,, but so what? Quote……

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15

    13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

    Jeremiah 23:25-27

    25 “I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ 26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27 who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.


  433. Marilyn Crow,
    Go to the song you want to share. In the address bar at the top of page highlight with your mouse and press control c, put your cursor on the comment page then press control v, at the same time.

    Hope this helps.


  434. chas351
    It is VERY obivious, to me and others on this site that Todd Bently and others (NAR) and the like are total FRAUDS and i we do not need to quote scripture for that, thank you and God bless.

  435. Coming back to the topic of discernment I want to put into context what I have shared and how this relates to discerning the fruit which is the only way to tell the true from false.

    The reason I have shared so much of my personal testimony is that it is really a testimony of Lord Jesus Christ, and the reality and simplicity with which He met me where I was at, led me by His Spirit , revealing Himself to me, then confirmed that as it is written is His truth.

    I have mentioned in some of my posts that Lord Jesus Christ delivered me from the deception of the false christ who comes in His name , at the start of my walk with Him.

    So with this in mind and relating back to the topic of this thread about discernment I want to share some of what Christ has shown me regarding the fruit of the false christ who comes to deceive.


    Firstly in this world there are many humans called Jesus who have had their blood spilled, so the false spirit can and does use the term the blood of Jesus and it means something completely different to them.

    The false can also say that Jesus came in the flesh because satan knows that Jesus came in the flesh.
    The scriptural warning that was given at the time was when the false apostles were denying that Jesus came in the flesh, however the deceivers have changed their game plan in the days that we live in, and they now try to come as the real thing in order to deceive, and as such wont say ,or not say things that expose themselves

    So the only way to discern the false is by the fruit.


    Fruit shows in many ways;

    The way a person lives

    The way they relate to others

    Their heart attitudes

    Their motives


    The fruit of the deceiver that I see most commonly today is ;

    Words spoken to impress, often about super spiritual encounters.

    Words spoken to flatter .

    Words spoken that are self promoting .

    Motives seeking approval and acceptance from others.

    The above fruit seeks to gain our confidence and to get our guard down so that we are less likely to question false doctrine when it arises, and if we do question the false doctrine , the poor me card that seeks sympathy over for example ,personal circumstances ,will be played as a way of gaining or maintaining control and drawing people into their circle of influence.


    The difference between the above fruit that can come from our unsurrendered flesh , or can point to the deceivers spirit are often shown in motive.

    A true believer and follower of Lord Jesus Christ will easily come to repentance for the wrong fruit of the flesh, where as the spirit of the deceiver will always try and move the focus away from the bad fruit that shows,


    All true followers of Lord Jesus Christ will not argue against the written word that shows the truth of the Living Word of God, who is Lord Jesus Christ.

    Remember in the garden of Eden the approach from the enemy was ;are you sure that what God meant , and surely ,,,,,,

    The written word is literal in that it means what it says.

    The deceiver will often use the written word out of its intended context and meaning in order to deceive.


    In summary we have the false messengers who come to flatter and deceive by sharing super spiritual insights that seek to do away with the truth that is written , seeking to draw us into a new thing !

    Lord Jesus Christ hasn’t changed and He works through us in the same way today as He did through out the history of the bible.

    Those who truly know Him, have no issue with everything that Lord Jesus Christ is , for as it is written so it shall be.


    If any are uncertain as to whether they are following the false Christ , or are questioning whether they have being deceived by lying spirits coming in His name, all that any of us need to do , is to come to true repentance , surrendering and offering all our encounters , thoughts and feelings back unto the real living , ruling , reigning Lord Jesus Christ, and He will set you free !

    Praise His Holy Name

    He came to set the captive free

    Praise you Lord Jesus Christ !

  436. Nite all, dear folks and God bless, from Northern Ireland.


  437. Roger (NZ) May 1st 2013

    Chas351 – just reading through some comments here, and so chose to click onto the link you posted.

    As soon as I saw the name of the speaker, without listening to a word, turning off needed no ‘discernment’.

    That may sound harsh..? however until this man T.B., has a revelation from the true christ – Lord Jesus the only Messiah of God, and receives, accepts, believes on Him alone – and repents of his past.. I cannot listen.

    Just read Kevins post on fruit – which is probably the best answer to your question Chas..

  438. chas351 May 1st 2013

    Kevin, GaryB etc..

    this is intense,, seriously…. what TB is saying in “this”actual clip is SCRIPTUAL and the PRAYERS are Scriptural.

    ~if many on here are saying it is of the evil one simply because of FRUIT in a person’s life.. then throw the first stone!

    Name ‘one’ Preacher with the Power of God who did or does NOT have some publically known SIN while preaching?

    Derek Prince?

    Matt12:34 ..the mouth speaks the abundance of the heart..
    Matt15:11 …what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

    i am not saying this Revival is of the Holy Spirit, BUT i cannot say it is NOT?

    please do NOT reply because of previous prejudice / Lakeland ( i am fully aware of all the issues / criticisms etc)

    but listen INTENTLY to this one clip as i have with an open mind and discerning heart under the protection of the Blood of Jesus.
    Ps27:1 & 2Tim1:7


    ~appreciate your assistance and patience and time

    chas NZ

  439. chas351 May 1st 2013

    ~cannot people be brought into repentance?

    ~is there no forgiveness after divorce?

    ~cannot our hearts be changed for the better?

    ~isnt the christian walk a path of grow into full stature?

    ~is a person NOT saved because they still have one sin not yet cleansed in this walk? (includes unknown sin)

    ~doesnt fruit take time to grow?

    ~who has a perfect tongue?

    as for me i pursue Holiness, Righteousness, Presence of Jesus, Yeshua, The Lord God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth

    Bless His Holy Name that He saved me 29 years ago by Faith, By Grace, by the Blood of the Lamb, and put me into a New Covenant and became My High Priest and with One Offering made me His Child 1JN5:11-13, JN5:24, Eph2:8-9, Titus3:5, Jn6:37, Eph1:6, Rm5:8-9, Jn1:12


  440. chas351
    It is VERY obivious, to me and others on this site that Todd Bently and others (NAR) and the like are total FRAUDS and i we do not need to quote scripture for that, thank you and God bless.
    if that post chas351 was anything to do with that man
    TODD bently……………GET away from it LIGHTNING FAST
    i have heard TODD speak and watched this STRANGE FIRE
    , he actually got that part right.
    HIS new wife of adultery, was spazzing out and wigging out
    and talking bout a elephant, which is BIG IN HINDU religoin i might add,,,,,,,,,,,,
    THIS aint of GOD……………….GET AWAY from that man.
    GET away from those men. and DONT EVER LOOK BACK at them. Chanting and repeating the same words over and over again. JESUS our LORD warned us about such men
    FOR THEY THINK they shall be HEARD for their many words……
    These men seek the POWER and kick ole ladies in the face with boots…………..and then says GOD TOLD HIM TO DO IT
    GET away from this man. GET away from these men.
    DANGEROUS sensual men…………….having NOT THE SPIRIT
    and leading captive many by alluring them by the PPOWER
    and NOT the TRUTH. BIG difference.
    GOD aint going to tell any believer TO KICK a lady in the face
    with a combat boot to test faith……….
    THAT just aint right at all. and bently and the bennyis, and james golls…………and many others…………have EXALTED THEIR OWN SELVES above the simple truth . GET AWAY from these men.
    FAR, far from their new age doctrines. amen.

    thus aint hearsaying . THAT man is NOT of GOD.
    PEROID. WHen his wife of adultery, the one he left his wife and kids for………..was going ape wild like that hindu religion.
    And nigh the END of it……………TODD actually said truth , without even realizing he had. HE said WOW……………..now that was strange FIRE……………
    HE got that right………….and STRANGE FIRE GOT AARONS SONS BURNT DEAD. GET far from this man and
    many others.

  442. Kevin May 1st 2013


    I have just looked at the first couple of minutes and don’t see that anything has changed.

    Right from the start it is about his encounter, validating it using his phone.

    Truth doesn’t have to sell its self in this way.

    I have seen Lord Jesus Christ heal people and felt His fire, and in never came with all the extra fizz and self validation .

    When ever the Jesus I know is present there is an over whelming sense of His Holiness and a quiet respect from those experiencing this , often times people not even able to speak.

    All the noisy attention seeking experience that is being peddled at the start of the video clip is not the Lord Jesus Christ that I know.

    In His love


  443. Kevin May 1st 2013


    Yes people can come to true repentance.

    The problem comes when they deceive as teachers and ministers unto others., for then they are given over to strong delusion, which will prevent them from coming into true repentance.

    Basically there is a line that gets crossed that is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit .

    2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
    2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
    2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
    2Th 2:12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Heb 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
    Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

  444. Kevin May 1st 2013


    All I would suggest is that you seek the truth from Lord Jesus Christ.

    To do this surrender unto Him all you think you know and feel regarding TB, and ask for the protection of the Holy Spirit , and to be set free from anything that is not of the truth of the one true living Lord Jesus Christ.

    Then see what He reveals to you

    In His Love


  445. Thanks for your post Kevin on discernment, deceivers and false christs…

    I know personally that I regularly need to offer back to the Lord what I believe He has said and wait until I get the confirmation of His Peace in my heart and the joy bubbling up in my spirit and the assurance of His Holy Spirit before I can receive any word or vision which I am given…

    The good thing about the Lord is that as we are surrendered to Him He “un-deceives” us as required… 🙂

    That has been my experience…

    There are a few posting here who I suspect fall under the category of deceivers being controlled by anti-Christ spirits…

    I suppose for me it’s how I feel after I read someone’s post – does it lift me up in the Lord, does it encourage me in my faith, I’ve read so many posts which the “spirit” of the post just depresses me – doesn’t encourage my soul in the Lord at all…

    I suppose it’s good that this is a public forum and we can all share cos as we – who know the Lord – share about what He has done in our lives – our testimonies – are what will overcome the devil in the deceivers – they have no testimonies to share and any they do share are hollow and deceptive and we – those who have been born again – can (as the Lord leads us) – see right through them… 🙂

    Praise You Jesus… 🙂

  446. Wonderful sound advice Kevin and Andrew, and some others.
    LET simply from the heart SEEK the LORD.
    Just HIS WILL and exhort and encourage believers in the LORD.
    to all who LOVE the LORD in sincerity……………….be blessed.

  447. HolyHolyHolyLGA May 1st 2013

    Kevin, re: Coming back to the topic of discernment (post)
    This is a very good grid.. You brought up some points seldom considered. John Bevere has a good book on discerning as well entitled, Thus Saith The Lord. You might enjoy his book.
    Chas351, ,I know you want to see the best in Todd Bentley. The fruit of this man’s teachings in our church was deeply disturbing. DEEPLY!

    I didn’t watch the entire 2 hr. clip you posted. I may have watched 2-3 minutes at tops. I did notice very little Scripture or Godly reverence for true Holiness., I did notice alot of Todd Bently exalting Tod Bentley via what brings glory to men. Todd emphasized, and God USED to advance a quick slight of hand. Todd always winning!

    There are many good teachers of the Word. Seek another to disciple you in God’s ways. Please consider reading the book above, Or another which draws us to God’s heart, Word to test the man.
    Book: Thus Saith the Lord, by John Bevere.

    Chapter 13 – Knowing Prophets By Their Fruit

    Excerpt: A false prophet uses his God-entrusted gifts to draw others unto himself. A true prophet draws them to the heart of God.

    Chapter 15 -Testing And Handling Personal Prophecy [revelations, etc.]
    Excerpt: If we hear words in our mind or are given words from another without a witness of peace, the word should be rejected. athe witness of peace is the umpire or decision maker.


  448. HolyHolyHolyLGA May 1st 2013

    Correction: Todd emphasized and USED God, to advance a quick slight of hand. Todd always winning!

  449. chas351 May 1st 2013

    Thank you for your words of wisdom, Absolutely AGREE with your comment:

    “To do this surrender unto Him all you think you know and feel regarding TB, and ask for the protection of the Holy Spirit , and to be set free from anything that is not of the truth of the one true living Lord Jesus Christ.

    Then see what He reveals to you”

  450. chas351 May 1st 2013


    watching that clip for 2-3 mins is like flicking the Bible open randomly and reading a few verses from the OT & concluding we should live eye for eye tooth for tooth

    I am not trying to justify TB and personally hate tattoos & piercings
    However, it does appear there has been major changes in TB’s life…
    ~same personality human wise.. same style preaching BUT the Word spoken is Biblical? thats what i am trying to ascertain?

    are you able to listen to a few more minutes like start at 15mins into the clip and then let me know what is preached in error?

    the fact that he is living with that other woman & is divorced does not mean he has not come to repentance. yes i saw that clip of her talking about elephants and that was some display of demonic activity which TB did not discern, However that was nearly a few years ago…

    Do you not pray / hope TB has come to repentance?
    How would you know?
    does TB have to go back to his wife?

    ~if so.. then many preachers out there better shut down their pulpits!

    & just to throw another spanner in the works, i personally would not spend 2seconds listening to a Homosexual Preacher because that is clearly Abomination.. but divorce & adultery are not abomination (NT say you can let a non-believing wife go, which is literally divorce) God hates divorce, but OT did allow it.. plus bear in mind, WE are all Adulters if married and look lustfully once in our lives after marriage .. just one sin makes us guilty of all

    Thanks be Praise to Yeshua for the Precious Blood and His MIGHTY SALVATION.
    chas NZ

  451. chas351 May 1st 2013

    randall lowrey

    I perceive you are on fire for God, Jesus and His Word, which is AWESOME!

    But regards end times, I have No idea who you listened to..

    This is NOT the “Partial Pretorist View” i have come to accept lately.. (ie. part of REV already fulfilled, still much to Come)

    Which looks FORWARD TO JESUS SECOND COMING and holds securely to the four beliefs you mentioned



  452. Kevin May 1st 2013

    chas, even if TB is not preaching error , the manifestation of the fruit of the Spirit is not of the Lord Jesus Christ I know.

    Often those who are deceived will preach truth. In the end the anointing and what spirit that comes from is evidenced by the fruit.

    The spirit that is controlling TB in the opening minutes of the video is a self exalting attention seeking spirit.

    The game with these spirits is always the same. Win our confidence , then bring us under the false anointing, then bring in the deception once we no longer can discern it.

    The fact that so many preachers are in error does not excuse the deception.

    What makes TB different is the anointing he imparts which takes a very strong hold over people who then struggle to come free of it.

    I have seen with my own eyes, humble understated servants of Lord Jesus Christ imparting His fire and healing with out any of the stuff that TB shows.

    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
    Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
    Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
    Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


    chas , having said what I have , I am not asking you to believe my words , for I know that until you get this revelation from Lord Jesus Christ , this matter wont be settled for you.

    In the love of our Lord Jesus Christ


  453. …the witness of peace is the umpire or decision maker.

    I like that HHHLGA… 🙂

    I have a witness for that (of peace) – what you (or what John Bevere) are (is) saying is true… 🙂

  454. Roger (NZ) May 1st 2013

    Chas351 – I need to apologise to you for not previously listening as you asked, just watching, and assuming from what I saw.

    I have now listened into the first 3 – 4 minutes, and then went forward to around 14 and listened from there for another few minutes.

    I saw a man (TB) trying to work the crowd, who wouldn’t respond, and I heard the same man declare something like: – he was now as righteous and holy as he was going to get..

    I’m sorry Chas, I couldn’t listen to, or watch, any more than that..

  455. Averyl May 1st 2013

    chas351, – don’t forget Satan can quote scripture.
    Just because men like Bentley have “the gift of the gab” and are great entertainers, that doesn’t make them genuine men of God.
    Would Jesus behave in that way?
    We know God forgives our sins but that knowledge is not an excuse to wilfully sin, knowing that God will forgive us anyway.
    Perhaps those living in sin should not have a public ministry?

  456. Averyl May 1st 2013

    It is a dangerous thing to put a living man on a pedestal, – for him & for us.

  457. Marilyn Crow May 1st 2013

    Thankyou Gary B. Hope this works,now.

    So there you are in Sabadell, near Barcelona, Spain,

    and you decide to go out and for a late afternoon stroll

    around the town square with the rest of the folks…


  458. jordan Shepherd May 1st 2013

    A quick note on discerning: There are three areas we can look at.

    1. Teaching
    2. Prophecies, and
    3. Fruit.

    I know minister who ministered biblical teaching I could not fault. Prophetically, no fault. However, the fruit (long story) was extremely bad. Though this person was gifted in teaching, able to prophesy, yet the fruit fell far short. Never neglect one of these to the exclusion of the other.

    It is difficult to discern the fruit as it takes more work. Just because someone’s teaching is sound and gifts biblically aligned to God’s word, we must still ascertain the fruit.

  459. jordan Shepherd May 1st 2013

    Wonderful testimony about the healing of the child. Inspiring and God glorifying. Thank you.

  460. jordan Shepherd May 1st 2013

    Andrew J
    Thank you. I am greatly encouraged by your response and surrender to the Lord.

  461. jordan Shepherd May 1st 2013

    Holy Holy Holy LGA
    I will check the link, away doing work travel. It has been a joy to connect and testify to the Lord’s goodness. I love hymns also and will share a testimony on that shortly. You know, I actually do thing the Lord is rejoicing since He endured the cross for the joy that was set before Him. What love the Father has bestowed on us. Bless you.

  462. Praise the Lord brother Jordan, you have encouraged me, We are blessed… 🙂

  463. Serenity May 1st 2013

    Fabakary – Some folk at the UBM site say they have heard sermons coming through car CD’s, eg, playing a sermon different to the one on the CD.
    Sometimes there may not have even been a CD in there.
    The sermons being heard this way were mostly from their pastor, David Eells, telling them that the Bride must be about preparing to meet the Bridegroom.
    Be encouraged.
    Great to read all the comments on here.

  464. GaryB May 1st 2013

    It is a dangerous thing to put a living man on a pedestal, – for him & for us. quote………….

    This is the problem people put men on a pedestal and then they become blinded to everything he says and does.

    Very good point.

    On the other hand there is a balance, when a Minister is walking with the Lord I do not see anything wrong with giving this man the respect that is due him. This brother is laboring for the flock of God, under the Master’s direction.


  465. GaryB May 1st 2013


    Good point in your comment.

    Even though this man was not preaching error, the amount of time I watched it I did not hear anything about Jesus or scriptures given.

    It was all about an angel shocked him, he is on his cell phone while in the presence of an angel. Something does not add up here.

    If God sent a holy angel to me with a message from Him I sure would not be texting or listening to voice mail with a ho hum attitude. 🙂 (Just a minute I have a call here, while the angel patiently waits for him to take his call.) 🙂

    Where is the fear of God?


  466. GaryB May 1st 2013


    Its a losing battle brother your not going to win anyone over to start listening to the errors of TB.

    I see what you are trying to say that yes, he could of repented. But you have to turn the apple over and see its full of rottenness on the other side. The man is promoting himself before his followers. 🙂

    If you win this battle, then maybe copeland, and benny hinn aren’t so bad. 🙂


  467. HolyHolyHolyLGA May 1st 2013

    Andrew J Horton,

    I considered ‘Thus Saith The Lord’ an excellent read. I highly reccomend it for this day which requires discernment. One point which I found VERY interesting, was the mixture of spirits, even of the prophets of Israel, who spoke in the name of God. Jeremiah 23 The place of the prophet and priesthood had become defiled with a “polluted mixing” of spirits.

    ie excerpt: page 42 “..five gallons of water is good for drinking, cooking, or bathing. But if you add a quart of hydrochloric acid, it becomes unstable. Even though the majority of the liquid – over 95%- is still water, there is not one ounce of the mixture which remains fit for consumption. The small percent of acid corrupted the entire amount of water… God instructed a true prophet to speak against the false.” Scriptures referenced-

    Ezekiel 13:1-2 Ezekiel 13

    13 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

    2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the Lord;

    3 Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

    4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

    5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.

    6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

    7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The Lord saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

    8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God.

    Does this strange mix not sound like the pollution seen in our day?
    God literally lamented in these verses. It is not evil for us to lament the impurity which covetousness brings through the unclean.

    I also LOVED Bevere’s teaching on the ministry of John the Baptist.p.36 His teaching was so sound- a true revelation to me.
    Again guys, percentages % 😀 used to teach us simple ones. Love it! There are so many good teachers of the Word, willing to lead God’s People. How it must lament God when we trail off after the ‘Judau goats’ ? God Bless

  468. fabakary May 1st 2013

    Serenity:Fabakary – Some folk at the UBM site say they have heard sermons coming through car CD’s, eg, playing a sermon different to the one on the CD.
    Sometimes there may not have even been a CD in there.
    The sermons being heard this way were mostly from their pastor, David Eells, telling them that the Bride must be about preparing to meet the Bridegroom.
    Be encouraged.”
    God bless you serenity, at last I have heard people that received similar miraculous ability from God. Our God is not indeed limited to science or technology ability. If he can teach and encouraged us through messages of the body gifts through technology means, he can still encouraged us from such messages without technology means. So Simple, nothing complex in that. God bless you.

  469. GaryB May 1st 2013


    My wife just read one of Bevere’s books and thought it was very good, called “The Fear of the Lord”. I am going to read it next also a friend said the one on “Fear and intimidation” was excellent.

    I have never heard of this guy before. They say he is very sound in doctrine.


  470. GaryB May 1st 2013


    Very beautiful music. Music sure draws a crowd.


  471. HolyHolyHolyLGA May 1st 2013

    Gary B,
    It too is very good! It’s been a few years for my reading some of his books. One thing to consider about his writings..they are foundationally progressive in that he sets one upon another. Our church was required to go through ‘UnderCover’ a very good read as well. We were required to apply it’s principles of submitting to authority as to not resist the Bentley teachings which were coming in. A good book was used in a bad way, Bevere’s books have a foundation of Fearing God, and Thus Saith The Lord. These first, protect from abusive authorities who might veer from the scriptures via “submit to the anointed! ” . The fear of God IS the beginning of wisdom. I read Thus Saith The Lord 3 times. Still enjoy the wealth I found there. God Bless you and your wife as you enjoy Him.

  472. Darren Sargent May 1st 2013

    Hi Kev,
    (just catching up with your comment). I understand. I just assume that everyone is as devious and despicable as me. Yes, I think it’s the ideal place to be, but it is also the place where the Lord wants us to be. If I knew I could keep 49% away from Him then I could start bargaining and trafficking and doing all sorts of underhand things. My flesh will say, “Cool! I can get away with just 51%.” The rot will set in from there, trust me! We have to be careful not to ‘make good’ or ‘make nice’ out of good intentions to placate or encourage people. Slowly but surely we will end up changing the message. If I keep 49% back for myself, what does it say of the 51% the Lord has been given? Is it the best part? Umm. I bet I would keep back the juicy bits for myself! Can you see how the talk of percentages and ratings (as the Kansas City prophets spoke about) gives an opportunity for the flesh. We need to be able to live with consuming fire (Isaiah 33:14-16). We must be wholehearted like Caleb. Our hands are on the plough or not; our shoulders are in the yoke or not. Years ago i wouldn’t have even mentioned your comment; the older I get it is either or.

    Must go to work.

    Love to you All

  473. HolyHolyHolyLGA May 1st 2013

    Darren: a concept well said to understanding.

  474. It is Finished…

  475. HolyHolyHolyLGA May 1st 2013

    Andrew J.H, thankyou for sharing these nice songs with us. There are so many we don’t know!


    Jordon Sheperd, thankyou for posting Don Moen’s, Love You So Much – with lyrics. It helps me to read the words as well. What blessings he has given us in music!


    LoveGodAlways~ 🙂 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEw5UFiodI

  476. That’s beautiful HHHLGA, Very soothing… 🙂