-extracts by J. Lee Grady

The controversial author says evangelical Christians are too narrow. But didn’t Jesus tell us to follow the narrow path?

When former evangelical pastor Rob Bell published his bombshell
book Love Wins in 2011, his Michigan megachurch reportedly lost
3,000 members. They scattered quickly because Bell questioned
the existence of a literal hell. His point was that Christians need
to develop a nicer message with a lot less judgment. But his
solution was to throw out 2,000 years of Christian theological tradition.

Then last month, Bell made a more stunning announcement from
a pulpit in California. He told people gathered at Grace Cathedral,
an Episcopal church in San Francisco, that he supports same-
sex marriage. His primary reason, he said, was that culture has
changed and we need to adapt.

Describing evangelicals, Bell predicted our doom in his March 17
remarks: “We are witnessing the death of a particular subculture
that doesn’t work. I think there is a very narrow, politically
intertwined, culturally ghettoized, evangelical subculture that was
told, ‘We’re gonna change the thing,’ and they haven’t. And they
actually have turned away lots of people.”

If Bell wants to come off as affirming and non-judgmental, he should
use kinder words when describing a group of Christians who make
up an estimated 30 percent of the U.S. population. Bell seems to
be saying: “I’m right, and you evangelicals are irrelevant.” He’s
ready to officiate at our funeral.

In response, I offer three points:

1. It’s actually OK to be narrow. Bell accuses us of being narrow.
But wasn’t it Jesus who told us the way to salvation is narrow? He
said: “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the
way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who
enter through it” (Matt. 7:13, NASB). Besides the fact that Jesus
refers to hell in that passage, He also says we have to be narrow
to avoid it.

2. Our subculture is not dying. The denominations that are losing
the most members today are actually the mainline groups that
have lost their commitment to the Bible. I’m in a different church
almost every week in this country (mostly charismatic or
Pentecostal), and I see vibrant faith, growing congregations and
the emergence of multiethnic leaders.

3. We do need to change our attitude. I will agree with Bell that
there is a segment of evangelicalism that is too politicized. We
misrepresent Jesus when we label Him a Republican or a Democrat.
He is neither. And we alienate people from Jesus when all we do
is pontificate about what we are against.

It is very possible that gay marriage will become the law of the
land in this country, just as the Supreme Court sanctioned abortion
in 1973. Just because our government legalized the killing of an
unborn baby does not mean I have to support that choice personally.
But I do have to show love and extend Christ’s forgiveness to a
woman who has aborted her child. Yelling at her or condemning
her will not bring her to faith in Jesus.

In the same way, we are called to show love and respect to gay
people. I don’t have to agree with a person’s lifestyle to love them.
Jesus showed amazing compassion to the woman caught in
adultery—and He rebuked the religious bullies who wanted to
stone her. But when they put down their rocks and walked away,
He told her: “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin
no more” (John 8:11, emphasis added).

Jesus was totally comfortable using the word sin when He showed
love to a person. And that’s the part of Jesus’ gospel that Rob
Bell ignores.


Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on April 10th, 2013 at 11:27 am.


105 Replies

  1. I wholeheartedly agree with you Andrew.

    Galatians 1:8: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    Bell is seriously deceived and unfortunately will seriously deceive others. Keep ringing the bell of truth Andrew. Thank you.

  2. Wow!This is so powerful and true!

    I however want to differ a little on this:

    “Yelling at her or condemning
    her will not bring her to faith in Jesus.”

    I do not know how we interprete “condemning” but I have also learned that people who do not want to change their lives for the sake of Christ and holiness often use the word to object the fact that they live in sin…

    Reproof is very necessary in the Kingdom as also the scriptures are necessary for reproof…(2 Tim 3:16)…

    If a person has already committed abortion, committing it the for second time is not impossible. Correction can still be admistered the sister in the Lord for this reason…Someone will not really repent truly until they realise the severity of a particular sin. That is why many go back once or twice to do the same sin.

    I am of the opinion that rebuke and correction will bring a humble heart to Christ and not push it away…as long as it is rooted in love.

  3. madelinecornett Apr 10th 2013

    my five year old grandson gets it
    when he ask his mom about men marring men
    while she was trying to come up with an answer
    he said to her
    I know mom
    it is like trying to put TWO magnet together that are alike it will not work
    you have to have two that are different FOR IT TO WORK


  4. Rob’s problematiced issue laid in the “narrow Way” concept. I dont think he relate to the same narrow Way of the master.His seems to poimt to a wider way instead.

    I leant from Jesus harsh words that God do practice “tough love”. When he wanted to demonstrate the narrow road comcept to the first church ,he hasitated not to terminate the lives of Ananias and Saphira, King Herod(Acts 12:22-23) and Rob seems to disregard the warning in Gal your step and embrced the defeat slogan”if you can’t beat them join them”.

  5. When a man as Rob Bell declares that his word is above The Word then you simply have a man who is saying he is above God. In effect Rob Bell is saying that he has more love than LOVE Himself. At the very least he is deceived, at the worst his pride exalts itself above God. When men choose to ignore the clear teaching of God’s Word and declare that they have something better, it is nothing less than heresy and spiritual idolatry. I am sorry for the man and especially that he leads others astray. Just another example of a false teacher in these last days.

  6. Marc Wildman Apr 10th 2013


    I sometimes wonder if God doesn’t have a sense of humor and literally names people either after their accomplishments or sins.

    Anyone hear a something ringing here, a warning sound perhaps? It may not be a shot fired or a trumpet blast but then again I think of my youth and that all to familiar recess warning bell? Playtime is over and it’s time for solid teaching?

    It’s all written in God’s Word as Solomon once said; ‘there is nothing new under the sun?’

    “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many” (verses 4-5, King James Version).


  7. miss bridgewater Apr 10th 2013

    Well when Jesus told the woman go and sin no more, one has to consider the fact he was yet alive, and she was still in the old covenent. When Jesus speaks of sin, how do you know he isnt constantly reminding all that each need him and his blood as savior. Nobody is not guilty of scripture picking, or seeing it in another way and many dont preach all of it either, and its a fact that many ugly traditions have been passed down through the generations. These need to be looked at through and through. I have yet to see a sinless person, and its sickening to see everyone pointing fingers 24/7. I often wonder what the lord really thinks about all his children on earth that never get along, and do they deserve heaven forever. Im sick of the hell docterine as well, it looks reserved for the pharisees and religiouos. who reject him/and his grace. I find it interesting nobody ever mentions some inherit heaven and some inherit the earth and whats the thousand year rein for, Everyone is more then happy to cast everyone else in hell. Who could blame the lord if he just wipes us out via natural disaster, bombs or our enemies for not listening,

  8. QuotingIronside Apr 10th 2013

    A lukewarm [double-minded] church is a powerless church. There is nothing about it to make unsaved men believe its testimony is worth while. But a church characterized by fervent love for Christ, and energetically reaching out after the lost makes an impression even upon the most ungodly that it is hard to ignore. When the churches themselves heed the command to repent and get right with God, we may expect to see repentant sinners flocking to their altars.
    (Except Ye Repent, By Dr. Harry Ironside)

    Revive Thy work, O Lord,
    Thy mighty arm make bare;
    Speak with the voice that wakes the dead,
    And make Thy people hear.

    Revive Thy work, O Lord,
    Disturb this sleep of death;
    Quicken the smold’ring embers now
    By Thine almighty breath.

    Revive Thy work, O Lord,
    Create soul-thirst for Thee;
    And hungering for the Bread of Life
    O may our spirits be.

    Revive Thy work, O Lord,
    Exalt Thy precious Name;
    And, by the Holy Ghost, our love
    For Thee and Thine inflame.

    Revive Thy work, O Lord,
    Give Pentecostal showers;
    The glory shall be all Thine own,
    The blessing, Lord, be ours. -Albert Midlane

  9. unfortunately some of these people have gained so much power and money they probibly start to believe THEY are a god , thusly could and should set the standards for todays church. couple that with the FEEL GOOD movement in most of the mega churches…and it just seems so “right” to so many persons who consider themselves CHRISTIANS ! as the leader, if the person sees his “flock” bending to the ways of today’s society of ” do what you want to do ” and ” my god does not judge ” he probibly asks himself : one half of my congregation are nuetral and the other half believe there really is no sin…so why should i give all this up for GOD ? the ” NARROW PATH” might also be the difference between a real church….and a business !

  10. miss bridgewater Apr 10th 2013

    I think a perfect example for us today is to look at the fruit of Rick Warren and the loss of his son recently. Do I think it could be judgment ? Yes. One must really wonder what really was going on here, religious strongholds are a killer. Reports said dispite years of councel, psych. and attempts at what so many call “spiritual” healing have failed. I wonder if the kid was gay at all, and if some tried to make him holy rather than tell him Jesus’s holiness was put on him while yet a sinner. Again Im quite amazed to see so many gays coming out of evangelical homes. Oral Roberts is a prime example of living holier then thou talk, and hell fire talk and look his own son was gay, committed suicide, and now there are I believe 2 gay grandchildren. Makes me wonder about the fruit of evangelism over the last hundred plus years. Poor teachings have made it into the catagory of TRADITION that just keeps getting passed down and maybe some have had enough. It might be time for all to quit jumping between the old laws and what Jesus said about his new law, way too many keep jumping back and forth and playing hopscotch with Gods word.

  11. fabakary Apr 10th 2013

    There is a Selfish Anger. The psalmist say “God is angry everyday with the wicked “. Once I ask the Lord within my heart “Lord if truly your love for everyone is unconditionally why are you angry everyday with the wicked? Because Anger and love seemed contradicting. Then immediately He seemed to force a divine taught of question within my heart saying “If a true parent that Love his child , get angry with his child because he did wrong , is it because He loves Him or because He hates him ? When he gave me that question, It was like in the twinkling of an eye , I came to know what is selfish and unselfish Anger. Fallen man Anger , even in the name of religion, “righteousness “ is basically selfish anger. Except a man love is unconditional ,towards his child, his anger will be basically selfish. Gods Anger and Judgment is pure because there is nothing selfish in it, what he loves he loves without condition. Many are there who because of selfish anger will wish God to kill the sinners , rather than forgive and save them. That is why before the Lord admonish us to pray for our enemies he first admonish us to Love them. Whom we did not Love we cannot intercede for. Personally this understanding from the lord help me a lot.

  12. Jean Clink Apr 10th 2013

    It is too easy to focus on one man and show all the places he is wrong.

    Let’s battle with ideas rather than with one another.

    The world looks at this controversy and laughs.

  13. lastlaughs Apr 10th 2013

    Jean, re: The world looks at this controversy and laughs. ? True!

    Actually, the devil laughs last.

    Satan loves to fixate people on people. Target fixation. He delights as this diverts them from seeing him behind all the lies.

  14. Michelle d. Apr 10th 2013

    Rob Bell… Has the purest HATE message our COUNTRY has every heard… To let people DIE in thier SIN… Without hope of forgiveness… Because we do not LOVE PEOPLE enough to TELL THEM the TRUTH… They CANNOT REPENT… He is MORE WICKED than any MURDER… For he is DESTROYING the SOULS of MEN and WOMEN… WITHOUT REMEDY… HE IS WICKED and EVIL… GOD will REQUIRE thier BLOOD at his HANDS… The HEART of man is WICKED and EVIL… WHO can know it.

  15. I wish the church understood homosexuality is a condition, same as weak eyes. Nobody gets to choose their sexuality. Who’d choose that pain? The gay lifestyle is fornication and sin. Celibacy is a doable option. God can enable gays to find joy and victory in abstinence. In a world accustomed to instant gratification on every level the result is lack of self control. And this: “Then” and “than” are different words. They are not interchangeable.

  16. Kathleen in WA State Apr 10th 2013

    I very much appreciate the tenor & tone & truth of Mr. Grady’s text. He is Biblically sound, direct & respectful. That’s no easy style to achieve in a world (and often in a church) that insists on compromise.

  17. I absolutely agree with and support J. Lee Grady’s views here. We get to heaven on God’s terms. We are not intended to be popular, but to state the terms as declared by the “unpopular” prophets who died because they were not out to get popular but to get people right with God.
    I have no idea who Mr Grady is, but I get the impression he is quite high profile in the States. God bless you Mr Grady. Stay true. Be faithful.

    Keith Lannon

  18. MIMI: you wrote, “I wish the church understood homosexuality is a condition, same as weak eyes. Nobody gets to choose their sexuality.”

    It is important for the disciple of Christ to refer to, and describe Bible issues the way the Bible does.

    First, the Word does NOT EVER refer to homosexuality as “a condition, same as weak eyes.” It refers to homosexuality as sin – even an “abomination” before God.

    Second, sadly, it appears you have bought into another lie of the militant homosexual agenda – that is that it is an issue of “sexuality.” Again, the Bible repeatedly describes it as a behaviour – not some gene that makes one either homosexual or heterosexual.

    There is a sense in which a homosexual is born that way – the same way a thief, liar, or murderer are born that way. We are all born with a reprobate sin nature in which lie the seeds of all manner of sins. But such a truth is NOT equivalent to being born with weak eyes, or being born of a particular skin colour – or even being born either male or female. It is the LIE of the father of lies (Satan) to make it seem like such things are the same as homosexuality.

    Those who follow Christ must not endorse such lies.

    God bless,

  19. debonnaire Apr 10th 2013

    These men , Bell or Warren ( and countless others people like them in this time of apostasy ) have willingly chosen to depart from the Truth. To please people or to soften their conscience , or maybe they have never really know Jesus. Anyway they serve another god than God. And Christians should have nothing to do with their deeds.

  20. Miss Bridgewater, WOW! So what happened with Rick Warren’s son was judgment from God? Maybe you should stay away from speculating.

  21. Concerning Rob Bell and Lee’s article, we should not be all that surprised.

    By the Scriptures’ standards Rob Bell has demonstrated over and over that he is a false preacher and a false teacher who presents a false gospel. As Michelle d. pointed out, Bell also gives a false hope and sense of spiritual security to those who embrace his deceptions.

    In the context of the last days, 2 Timothy 3:12-13 (NKJV) cleary warn us, “Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus [following and representing His narrow way] will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, DECEIVING AND BEING DECEIVED.”

    While we need to recognize his abberations and warn fellow believers to reject his teachings, we also should be praying for Bell’s repentance and salvation. It won’t surprise me in the least if when I get to heaven I find out that there were believers who were praying for the zealot Pharisee, Saul – upon whose life Christ interjected Himself and created a regenerated believer who became the Apostle Paul.

    God bless,

  22. genevee Apr 10th 2013

    The “moral majority” should change its name to the “moral broad road.” Issues like homosexuality give them a chance to be judgmental over sins they don’t struggle with. We need to get out of the does and don’ts mindset, receive God’s imputed grace and truly understand that everyone’s walk really is about relationship.

    The real issue for me is that sexual immorality makes you spiritually very dull. This is even giving conceding to the anything goes crowd that the “sexual immorality” under the Jewish law did not encompass fornication unless it involved a virgin. Stay in it very long and your walk with God will suffer in a big way. You will become as shallow and lukewarm as the christian political crowd or the prosperity crowd. It also hurts ourselves and others. I can tell you in my own walk I have had God deal with me different ways at different times from “better to pluck out your eye” to “700 wives like Solomon” (not literal wives). I in no way believe in the hard line that much of the church has taken on sex issues, but we need to honor God in our relationships. My walk is best when it is just me and God and no women interfering with my attention.

    God is not mocked and you will sow what you reap. God absolutely will judge you by inflicting your kids for things you have done. We have the scriptural example of David. Even though he repented and god forgave him, God caused his baby to die for his sin. We never know if God is or is not doing that unless he tells us so there is no point in speculating on people like Rick Warren, but I can assure you God still does it even though we are under grace.

    I am still wrestling with Paul’s “better to marry than to burn” as the worst piece of advice in the whole bible, but still waiting on the Lord on that one. I can’t think of a worse reason to get married than for sex. It doesn’t even address the problem because then you are just lusting for your wife. We all have juices that flow that cannot be chalked up to lust. We would have them even if Adam never fell.

  23. Andrew Apr 10th 2013

    Mimi – as Wayne said, Homosexuality is SIN – and there are many who have been truly delivered from it by Jesus.

    Nobody is “born” that way – and all the scientific evidence points to that fact.

    But things that happen in childhood can greatly affect it.

    Jesus will deliver the ‘gay’ individual – if they will let him

    Bless you!


  24. Robert Apr 10th 2013

    Narrow is the way that leads to life. The problem with the Emergent Church Movement is they have been substituting their opinions for the Word of God for about 15 years now. They are getting more and more unbiblical each day. Many of the Rob Bells in this movement (talking about pastors, teachers) are denying the atonement now. This movement is antichrist. Read Bell’s first book Velvet Elvis and you will know what I am talking about. He questions and gets his readers to question the virgin birth. Wake up church. This is the fastest growing movement in Christendumb and has infiltrated every denomination in america with eastern mysticism also.

    Narrow is the way. Jesus said you must be born again. Can anyone tell me how narrow the birth canal is?

    I’ve takenmy stripes exposing this man over 5 years ago. Most Christians-if you want to call them that in America could care less about doctrine and this is why they follow Bells, Rick Warren’s, Schueller’s etc.

    I ate to say this but I believe America’s judgmetn started at least as far back as 911. Many inother countries don’t know that over half of our nation was in a drought last year for about 4 months. Poeple were trying to give away their horses and cows were selling cheap because they couldn’t afford to feed them. California is getting bombard with many earthquakes every week. It’s here people. Get your hearts right and walk in faith.

    God Bless

  25. Rob Bell is a heretic and a deceiver and a stumbling block to many poor souls and is well down the road of apostasy. To even mention his name or write articles in response to him gives him a measure of credibility that he biblically doesn’t deserve. The only reason to mention his name should be to warn anyone and everyone to get away from him and stay away from him.

    Any issues he raises can be raised without regard to the man himself. From such turn away.

  26. I think these Scriptures say it all re Rob Bell and others like him.
    2 Timothy 3
    Perilous Times and Perilous Men
    3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
    The Man of God and the Word of God
    10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    So whatever these men say about true believers, God will have the last say in their lives. The sad part is they deceive many
    unsuspecting sheep, which it is why it is so important to know Scripture and seek the gift of discerning of spirits in these last days. We are commanded to test the spirits everywhere we go.
    God also adds to their delusion over time so that they become completely deceived and totally unteachable. Good websites like Berean Call, Moriel, Ariel, Let us Reason Ministries, Deception in the churches, to name a few, are good sources to test the spirits and identify the false teachers/prophets who are rampant out there.

    I prefer to evangelise round the world but alot of my time is spent bringing Christians back to the path of truth and Scripture, rescuing them from the wolves of megachurch syndrome and doctrines of demons beibg circulated. Websites like this are great for keeping abreast of such developments.
    God bless you all and such great discussions are held here.

  27. Very good message here.

    The narrow path seems to be getting narrower in these last days, while the broad path is expanding and becoming much wider.


  28. Darren Sargent Apr 10th 2013

    Sick of the Hell doctrine?
    Sexual immorality makes you dull? . . . . really?

    Madeleine’s grandson has said it all!

    Davo, Fabakary and Andrew: this inscription, “They know their God and they will do exploits!”

    “Each man’s soul’s his own.” (Hamlet)
    Whether the offspring of a man has been judged by the Lord for the parents sin, some may have revelation of this, I cannot say. Undoubtedly, if a soul cries out to God from a pure (not morally so, but devotedly so), sin-sick heart then the Lord shall have mercy upon that person and deliver him. The mercies of the Lord are daily. Gracious and abounding in love is He. Slow to anger and forgiving sin to many generations.

    If sexual sin is inadviseable because it dulls us then such an attitude is pragmatic and utilitarian: not based on truth. Rob Bell accuses the true gospel of ‘not working’ – the same accusation. He strengthens the hand of the wicked as he affirms them in their sin. Usefulness is not a criterion for truth or power.

    Sexual sin is wrong because it is evil, not evil in my eyes, but evil in His eyes. If we reduce sin to an inconvenience or that it might hurt someone I ‘love’, then our deliverance from it will be short-lived as it is based upon temporal reasons. David in Psalm 51 said it was sin against Him and Him only: that is the long and the short of it. If sin is seen as simply affecting US then we diminish sin and the sacrifice that was given for its atonement. The greater the severity of judgment then the greater the tender mercy of God. He is firm with us becasue He loves us and wants us to share in His holiness. We must flee from such sin in terror into the arms of a loving God.

    Brothers and sisters, there undoubtedly has to be division amongst us to show who has God’s favour.

    I maybe wrong but Rob Bell started among us and now teaches another gospel: this shows he never really was one of us as he has gone out from us. Can he be brought back? Saul started outside of the church and travelled the opposite way to Rob Bell. Once again, can he be brought back to repentance again? I cannot say, but it is grieving to us and no doubt to the Lord.

    Love to All

  29. cheryl m Apr 10th 2013

    Amen Alison M. Scripture provides the answers to the questions we all have concerning our faith.

    I have a relative (who was the one that led me to salvation) that is struggling with homosexuality. She wants to be pleasing to the Lord, but she also wants to be free to “love another woman”. She has dumped all of Paul’s epistles because they are “anti-woman” in her mind, and nothing else in the NT is against homosexuality, so why not?

    It really is a wicked world but the wickedness is wrapped in a pretty package called ” love, diversity and tolerance”

    The quotes from 2 Timothy explain it all.

  30. chas351 Apr 10th 2013

    who are we to change God’s rules

  31. chas351 Apr 10th 2013
  32. Barry Beattie Apr 11th 2013

    Thanks Andrew, a timely article. Rob Bell’s influence has (directly or indirectly) infiltrated my church and some of us are saying “we don’t want any of this stuff.” Grady’s article is balanced while pulling no punches. Such articles are necessary at times, despite accusations of “hate sites” and the like. A friend and I have been accused of being “terrified of deception” – not true. We know God is with us. He will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail.

  33. genevee Apr 11th 2013

    “Let us cast off the weight of sin that so easily entangles us” Darren should we throw out this scripture too? A little too pragmatic and utilitarian.

    How about the way Jesus said sin makes you dull? “Because lawlessness will abound the love of many will grow cold”. Jesus is talking about believers love for the Lord.

    How about “your sin has separated you from your God”?

    We are to honor God in our relationships. It also makes you spiritually very dull. My point was that the Christian walk is about a relationship with God. The Pharisees were big on the does and don’ts, but they didn’t have any real relationship with God or care about people. Even Jesus couldn’t figure out how they were going to escape the condemnation of hell.

  34. Randall Apr 11th 2013

    I created a tumblr account name, so I could ask Rob Bell a question (which I encourage all readers to do)

    I asked him if it was okay to talk, since I almost ended up in the lake of fire the Friday evening, August 30, 2002 of my automobile accident on SR163 in San Diego.

    I am hoping that he will answer.

    His tumblr site is

    We need to talk to this guy and ask him questions, I am trying to share my testimony.

    His soul needs to be yanked from satan’s grasp.

  35. Lightning Storm Apr 11th 2013

    Amen…… Jean Clink; fabakary; quotingIronside.

    There are many ABOMINATIONS in the bible.
    The word ABOMINATION appears 76 times in the bible.

    Why HARP on just one?

    Pro 6:16 KJV
    These six [things] doth the LORD HATE: yea, seven [are] an ABOMINATION unto him:

    Pro 6:17 KJV
    A PROUD LOOK, a LYING TONGUE, and hands that shed innocent blood,

    Pro 6:18 KJV
    An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to MISCHIEF,

    Pro 6:19 KJV

    Pro 8:7 KJV
    For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness [is] an ABOMINATION to my lips.

    Pro 11:1 KJV
    A false balance [is] ABOMINATION to the LORD: but a just weight [is] his delight.

    Pro 12:22 KJV
    LYING LIPS ARE AN ABOMINATION to the LORD: but they that deal truly [are] his delight.

    Pro 16:5 KJV
    EVERY ONE THAT IS PROUD IN HEART IS AN ABOMINATION to the LORD: [though] hand [join] in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

    Pro 24:9 KJV
    The thought of foolishness [is] sin: and THE SCORNER IS AN ABOMINATION to men.

    Pro 28:9 KJV
    He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] ABOMINATION.

    Luk 16:15 KJV
    And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for THAT WHICH IS HIGHLY ESTEEMED AMON MEAN IS ABOMINATION IN THE SIGHT OF GOD.

    When we are so filled with Divine Love, that we can LOVE OUR ENEMIES AND GOD’S ENEMIES, THEN
    we have been restored to the Image of Jesus.

    God would NOT ask us to do something that He would not do Himself.


  36. “Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, be zealous therefore and repent”…

  37. Well stated. Near where we live, recently a church and Christian school basically imploded via the embracing of this kind of “truth”. It is actually encouraging to hear that three thousand people left Bell’s congregation. The sad thing is that anyone stayed. Homosexuality will be and is now becoming a huge watershed issue. It will divide the church into sheep and goats, to a large extent. Andrew’s commments and Mr. Grady’s comments were right on. Thanks for bringing our attention to this article

  38. I like the heading. “the problem with Rob Bells gospel”. It didn’t say the problem with Rob Bell.
    it’s an excellent article, clearly defining the truth & the lie.
    However we must be careful not to shoot the messenger of this rotten teaching.
    the very first verse of the first Psalm mentions “sitting in the seat of the scornful”. We can be scornful of the devil & his message/s but not the messenger. At some time or another we also, thru sin etc become his messenger. How often we have said that we need to lovingly bring back or encourage the sinner or sinning christian eg homosexuals.
    Lets nail the nonsense of Robs teaching by encouraging one another with the truth & not heap scorn on Rob. To suggest he’s not saved is just not on guys. ONLY God knows who are His. I sometimes do things & think things that would cast doubt on my salvation if everyone knew about it. Who would like all their thoughts put on a billboard!! NOT ME PLEASE!!!!
    Be Blessed

  39. I agree, up to a point.
    I know many people who are never able to marry. they are condemned for how they were born. And i am not speaking here of homosexual people, but the people who are generally condemned along with them—the genetically intersexed. Most genetically intersexed Christians are unable to find a church where they will not be condemned. The only ones accepted are those who have been able to very carefully and successfully hide their inter-sexuality. Those who cannot hide that fact, but love Jesus wholeheartedly, are simply not welcome in most evangelical or charismatic churches. This is very sad, and is a reflection in the church’s lack of mercy (Romans 1:31-32).

  40. Darren Sargent Apr 11th 2013

    Sorry Genevee, I seem not to have made myself clear (my fault). I do whole-heartedly agree that sexual sin makes you “dull”, but it makes you more than dull – it makes you dead! It’s a more serious matter than its effect on me – it is death to me. Why did I take umbridge with your comment? You said:

    “The real issue for me is that sexual immorality makes you spiritually very dull.”

    Dullness seems so tame a word and full of self-consideration as if you were saying I shouldn’t engage in sin because it makes me dull and I want to be nice and sharp. I think the real issue is offence to God, the real issue is death, the real issue is hell and I think you do say that in your second post – so forgive me if we are arguing over words. Whenever I have given myself over to sin completely (not struggling with it!) it has coincided with self-consideration and a diminishing or excusing of my sin. The severity and seriousness of sin must be seen: as sson as I sin there is death. David in Psalm 51 is the true response of a repentant heart. Until we see our sin as evil in His eyes we are very far from dealing with it – it is not a struggle and dullness; it is depravity and death. The arrow pierces the liver (Proverbs 7:23).

  41. genevee Apr 11th 2013

    I don’t know about dead. My whole life is centered around God. I really have no life apart from him. I still had a relationship with God during years of “sexual sin.” He would even heal me of things… ie a broken heart. There really is such a thing as a broken heart. But my walk was nowhere near what it was.

    When that season was over, I remember having dreams. Almost like a progression. In the first dream it was as if I was spiritually asleep. All of the women were left in the past, and my walk was better than before in the dream. As I started to come out of it, I had a dream and my heart was totally set on the Lord, but I was entangled like the verse in Hebrews (I think the entanglements were job obligations as well as relationships). Then as I was more cleaned up I had a dream and he told me that because of the “great evil” I had done, my children would have health problems (I don’t have any children). Great evil does not refer to anything illegal BTW. I had multiple girlfriends for years.

    I really think there was a balance he was trying to teach me, and I went overboard. The whole thing was a God setup if you ask me. He knew I would do that. Obviously I wouldn’t have done it if it wasn’t in my heart to do it. I am sure I will get the full revelation of it as time goes on. Would part of that revelation be that I would end up in hell… possibly. I don’t presume to know anything other than what he teaches me.

    In my post I was talking about hell in relation to the Pharisees and the way they treated people. I threw that in there so you didn’t think I was against the doctrine of hell.

  42. Anna,

    I hate to say this but that sounds like nonsense.

    When someone comes to church I do not think true Christians are setting around wondering what sex they are. For one thing this is the first time I have heard of this term “genetically intersexed”.

    Do you honestly believe in your heart that Christians are wondering if the new person visiting is genetically intersexed?

    When most go into the house of the Lord their minds are geared towards worship and hearing from the Lord.

    Something is seriously wrong if a person is setting in church wondering who is genetically intersexed. 🙂

    Tell me is this what everyone is thinking here when you go to church?


  43. Lightning Storm Apr 11th 2013

    Mat 5:7 NASB
    “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

    Do YOU want mercy for your sins?

    Hbr 4:16 NASB
    Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

    Divine Love shown to someone does NOT preclude acceptance of their sin, nor approval.


    God rebukes the LOST. God convicts the LOST. God draws the LOST to HIMSELF.

    NO ONE can claim “I came to the Lord on my own strength and wisdom and by my own choice”.

    Superiority and Arrogance looks down upon the sinner, ESPECIALLY when the one looking down still has iniquity within themselves.

    Do I hear or see COMPASSION for the LOST sinner or CONDEMNATION?


    The Pure Love from God (not human love) has MORE POWER than the words of mankind. It’s called DUNAMIS, the Power of the Holy Spirit, whose FRUIT/CHARACTER/NATURE is:

    LOVE, Joy, PEACE, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Temperance, Meekness, Longsuffering.
    Gal 5:22-23

  44. Darren Sargent Apr 11th 2013


    here’s a great verse for freedom from the snare: Psalm 25:15, I love it. Tells me that deliverance is a gradual process on our part, that fixing of our will, that training through seasons and biological cycles, upon the Lord (2 Tim 2:19-26).

    I do sometimes wonder when I look back at the past about how close I actually was to the Lord when I was very far from Him. Was I just soliloquising (talking to myself) when I thought I was in intimacy with the Lord? More than I care to think. I guess if we don’t ask these questions we will never know the true value of our faith and keep on assuming we are right, true and faithful when we are bent, crooked, depraved and treacherous. God forbid that we make that exchange!

    The death I spoke of is the wages of sin, not just bodily decay – but the separation from God which manifests itself immediately upon sin, if we are sensitive enough to notice, but as you rightly pointed out our spiritual senses are dulled so we don’t pick up on what has just actually happened.

    Keep walking Genevee . . . Blessings!

  45. Lightning Storm Apr 11th 2013


    Rom 3:23 NASB
    for all have sinned and FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD,

    What is the GLORY OF GOD?
    (which is SIN)
    Mar 10:18 KJV
    And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT ONE IS GOD.

    If God is the ONLY ONE Who is Good, then HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN DO GOOD WORKS!
    The ONLY WORKS that will NOT be burned as hay and stubble are the WORKS THAT we do UNDER THE POWER AND INFLUENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
    He is God after all.

    2Ti 3:17 KJV
    That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto ALL GOOD WORKS.

    1Pe 2:12 KJV
    Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles(UNBELIEVERS): that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may BY YOUR GOOD WORKS, WHICH THEY BEHOLD, GLORIFY GOD in the day of visitation.

    Hbr 10:24 KJV
    And let us consider one another to provoke unto LOVE and to GOOD WORKS:

  46. fabakary Apr 11th 2013

    Lightening storm wrote: “God would NOT ask us to do something that He would not do Himself.

    God would not DEMAND US to LOVE OUR ENEMIES, IF HE DID NOT.” Amen lightening storm , when he say Love , it means He loves in the first place. It is written in the scripture :”For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: ” Who is God jealous of is it the gods or the people that worshiped the gods ?” It is because he Loved the people that is why He is jealous, like husband that Loved his wife , feels when he see her with another man. We have heard of stories where men killed their own wives because they saw them with another man ? they did not killed the wives because they hate them , but because they loved them being Jealous.When the man killed his wife because of jealous , another man who may have never loved the wife maybe happy because of the dead of the woman , but the man that loved the wife and killed him will feel differently. The man that Loved the woman is angry because he loved the wife another person that do not loved the wife was angry with the wife because he did not love the woman.The man that do not Love the sinner will rejoice of the dead and judgment that fall upon the sinner but the God that Loved the sinner will never rejoice of the dead and judgment of the sinner, for he judges him because of Love not hate. When God is angry with a man is because of He is Jealous and He is Jealous because He loves in the first place. Who will be jealous to see a woman that he did not Love with another man ?”Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. (Zac.8v2). It is written “Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die… ?Eze18v23). He loved the wicked as wicked as He is, that is why He never rejoices in the dead and the judgment of the wicked.But the one that do not Love the wicked will have pleasure in the dead of the wicked. Such a man will not intercede, pray , or wish the salvation of the wicked. Such a man is not in union with the heart of God nor His judgment ; for He sees God judgment with the wrong and selfish heart. He rejoices in the dead of the wicked because He is not in one with Gods heart .Love is the centre of anything that God do or will ever do . God will never ask us to do anything in His name without first being guided in Love. Anything that is done , without Love , is fallen man zeal, anger etc . the foundation must be Love. “Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
    Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. ” (1john4v7-16).

  47. The issue is one of testimony…

    Anyone who wants to stand up in “the House of God”, i.e. a local congregation of those who call themselves by the Name of the Lord and say, “God doesn’t think homosexuality is sin” is blaspheming the Name of God which they are taking upon their lips…

    God is rich in mercy and slow to anger but even God does have a limit which He can take and He will not allow His Name to be blasphemed ad infinitum…

    He will not…

    Even Sodom and Gomorrah which were the subject of God’s wrath before the Law drew out of our “Ever-Patient” – slow to anger – God a Divine Response…

    To me the issue is one of God’s Honour…

    Let God be found true and every man a liar…

    Those of us who have been born again by the Holy Spirit of God have a righteous soul – like Lot did – and we too are vexed by what we see going on around us – and if we’re vexed then we can be pretty sure that God is vexed also…

    And He is…

    I am one who has known what it is to be “born into” sexual sin – I have had sexual sin passed on to me from my generations – I noticed this first in me at about the age of eight (which is after I was born again at the age of five) but even though there were things “in me” which wanted to express sexual sin I always knew that those things were wrong…

    I have come to a place where I have confessed these various sexual perversions and have received deliverance – maybe the Lord still has layers to remove – that’s up to Him – but as I stand today I can honestly say that He has delivered me from a lot of sexual baggage – sin – and yet although I was “born with” that baggage – we were all born sinners – none of us “became sinners” He treats me as Adam – as if I was the one standing in the perfect garden with the perfect wife and the perfect relationship with God and throwing it all away to keep the gift which God had given me instead of trusting in the Giver of that gift…

    Since I’m “the man” and “the sinner” in God’s sight even though these sins were “visited onto me” from my generations and I was “born in sin” as David says in Psalm 51 – sinful at birth – I am still responsible for my sin – as God views me as Adam – Adam was our representative as was Eve…

    Anyway, the point of what I’m trying to share is that no one who is born of God will have any doubt in their heart of hearts that homosexuality is a sin – they have the Law of God written in their hearts and they know that it is a sin…

    As Andrew shares there is deliverance in Jesus – for every sexual sin – I believe I’ve experienced a lot of this – and I believe for every sin – not just the sexual ones – practical deliverance – where you never want to commit these sins again – when the Holy Spirit does that – achieves that – in you…

    So the Good News is – as Andrew has already said – that homosexuality is a sin that Jesus is quite capable of delivering us from … 🙂

    Love in the Lord,


  48. Psalm2 Apr 11th 2013

    Anna – re: the genetically intersexed people

    My exposure to this is somewhat limited. Our close friends had a son (a few years past), born with a slight defect which the doctors pressed them to QUICKLY act upon; to make a choice as to the sex they wanted the child to become. One small area was recessed at birth; a very common (often temporary) defect. Many times it is corrected in time naturally (within a few months) without any type of ‘corrective surgical measures’. Our friends decided to wait on God. The defect naturally corrected within the year. Our son had the same problem. It never required surgery, no one ever knew of the slight defect, and it corrected itself within a year of his birth as well. It was very evident what gender they were both born. Faith, prayer, an understanding of the scriptures; were ‘our responsibility as parents’. We were given the responsibility to act in the very best interest of our child; knowing that best interest rested in God’s original design of our children. The ‘best’ we can ever give our children, is first, parents who have faith in God’s design. No one has ever questioned our son’s gender in any way. (Certainly, not our son!) Society is generating great dissatisfaction and discontent with God Himself, and with God’s original design of men and women. Basically, they think that if they can prove God has ‘messed up’, then he is just a big ‘mess up’ himself. Therefore, no man has an accountability to God or his rules at all, and can actually do better without God. This reminds me of Psalm 2 where the heathen remove “cast off” God’s rules and rage in mental madness. Society itself, has become the pressure point pressing us to redefine the genders. They may mean well, but are become foolish in thinking themselves wiser than God. If a boy’s voice is soft, he is automatically categorized. If a girl plays with toy trucks, society sets their own ideas in motion. Now many of our schools are teaching societies norm of sexuality. These teaching may soon become mandatory in the nation’s school systems. The balanced and healthy home can’t have one mommy, one daddy and kids anymore. This has caused a world of confused children and adults alike. In their eagerness to be fair and balanced, they have created a terrible imbalance! You can no longer be accepted and popular unless you are gay oriented. Gay or religious prude, which we shall we be? God created and designed man and woman with great wisdom and purpose. Society defies God’s laws; becoming laws unto themselves. The dear children have become the casualties of this foolish turf war.

    Madelinecornett’s 5 year old grandson has more wisdom that the world’s wise without God, who have hardened their hearts to God’s Words.

    ie. 5 year old boy: ‘it is like trying to put TWO magnet together that are alike it will not work
    you have to have two that are different FOR IT TO WORK.’

    The deceptions of the devil on men, is great cause for the mercy and love of God to flow forth from the redeemed to all men. For God loved us while we were yet sinners and enemies toward God. It is required that we allow Him to love through us. To love those who are bound by sin, is what Jesus died to do.

  49. AsManThinkethSoIsHe Apr 11th 2013

    The fool sees only foolishness in God’s wisdom

  50. watchful Apr 11th 2013

    Looks to me like ALL flesh is fallen, and the same iniquity dwells in us all, so none of us can condemn another without also condemning ourselves. Everybody fights the good fight of faith in some area(s).

    The refrain, “Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no more.” is the essence of the gospel and has been echoing down the corridors of time for more than two thousand years, it is spoken indisciminately to everyody irregardless of the type of sin that wants to express itself.

    In the episode the woman caught in adultery, Jesus demonstrated the cross. The adulterous woman was as good as dead and she must have known it.. But Jesus laid down His life for her when He stood between her and an armed, angry, murderous mob. They could very easily have stoned Him to death too. In the act of laying down His life and wiping away her sins, Jesus gave her a new life – having been as good as dead she was now in effect re-born, and now the admonition given to her is the same admonition given to each one of us…………….go walk in your new life and by doing so sin no more. In other words, “Go sin no more” IS her new life offered to her by her Saviour. And this gospel does not discriminate between genders, races, age, or proclivities. All may partake of this new life…………if they are willing to carry their cross, in whatever form it takes, to go sin no more.

    Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    Hbr 10:18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.

    Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

  51. Marilyn Crow Apr 11th 2013

    Well spoken Watchful. How true.

    miss bridgewater

    I`d like to address a good point you made.
    `I find it interesting nobody ever mentions some inherit heaven, & some inherit the earth & what`s the thousand years reign for. Everyone is more than happy to cast everyone else in hell.`

    Most christians have been taught that eternity is only heaven or hell. Whereas God declares that there are more in His great kingdom.

    First there is the atmospheric heavens just above the earth where the birds fly & clouds form.
    Secondly is the Universal heavens which contain the planets, stars etc, the celestial area.
    Then thirdly, is the area of God`s throne, the third heaven of Paul`s vision where there are thousands & thousands of angels.

    All these are a part of God`s great kingdom. He created them & has not given any part away. Next we`ll look at who God says is ruling in each realm now, & then who God says He has destined to rule in each area.

    Hope you enjoy the study. Marilyn.

  52. Barry Schmidt Apr 11th 2013

    This article is sad. Same old same old tho!
    The things this man is saying about US evangelical believers is nothing new.

    The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil. (John 7:7 NASB)

    Jesus must have been the “evangelical” of His day too! They hated him for the same reason they hate us!

    All this seeking after the approval of the culture and worshipping at the shrine of “relevance” at the expense of truth is not the Jesus of the bible. Jesus tells us clearly THE ONLY REASON THEY HATED HIM WAS BECAUSE HE TESTIFIED. THAT THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL!

    And that’s THE ONLY REASON they hate us evangelicals as well.

  53. 2 Corinthians

    1 But I determined this for myself, that I would not come again to you with sorrow.
    2 For if I make you sorry, who then is he that maketh me glad but he that is made sorry by me?
    3 And I wrote this very thing, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.
    4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be made sorry, but that ye might know the love that I have more abundantly unto you.
    5 But if any hath caused sorrow, he hath caused sorrow, not to me, but in part (that I press not too heavily) to you all.
    6 Sufficient to such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the many;
    7 so that contrariwise ye should rather forgive him and comfort him, lest by any means such a one should be swallowed up with his overmuch sorrow.
    8 Wherefore I beseech you to confirm your love toward him.
    9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye are obedient in all things.
    10 But to whom ye forgive anything, I forgive also: for what I also have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, for your sakes have I forgiven it in the presence of Christ;
    11 that no advantage may be gained over us by Satan: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

    Triumph in Christ

    12 Now when I came to Troas for the gospel of Christ, and when a door was opened unto me in the Lord,
    13 I had no relief for my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went forth into Macedonia.
    14 But thanks be unto God, who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest through us the savor of his knowledge in every place.
    15 For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish;
    16 to the one a savor from death unto death; to the other a savor

  54. It is fine for them to hate us, even kill us, but we must never hate them. Save your hatred for liars and murders, as such will be divided out on either side of the scroll that restores mankind and eliminates the tares.

  55. How very sad! ‘Giving voice to the haters’ as referred to in the clip. People enjoy seriously shameful finger-wagging far too often. We measure against the very blackest backdrops, others-more evil than ourselves? Whereas, God measures us all against the Extreme Holiness we cannot even imagine. God help us all!

  56. To all stay away from this ROB BELL
    Their words can eat as a chancor on the soul.
    This emergent movment came from new age,
    these are new age preachers, who think they do the work of GOD
    but deny what HE has said.
    In these last days we are NOT going to be called christains
    the majority are headed this same way as bell.
    the prosperijty preachers, are headed the same way as well.
    We will be hated, and persecuted , and in time to come
    many even killed. I found something we all need to look at
    and understand. I will send it on the next post.
    Law enforcement and the world, colleges, physcology
    are all being tuaght that extremists, come from
    taking the bible TOO SERIOUS, or literally as GODS WORD.
    and this is REAL. THE LINE is being drawn and judgments are coming.


    EVERYONE please read this.
    monitoring and watching is already beginning
    and they aint even hiding the fact this is being done.
    THEY are putting fear into people against anyone
    who holds the BIBLE as GODS WORD
    and they are using bad examples to furthur the agenda.
    this way the public will have NO problem with the roundup
    of potentail terroists…
    and i KNOW what this is all ABOUT.
    we are fast becoming enemy number one
    adn will even be betrayed by many who sit in churches,
    who preach this false love as does bell,
    and all the while they will think they do GODS WORK
    when turning us into authorities etc.
    that we are the haters, etc.
    THIS is just like the way they GOT THE JEWS
    first make them out to look like a problem , etc
    then as more time goes on get more diligant and show a NEED
    to get them rounded up etc, put fear in people etc
    THIS AINT NEW,,,,,,,,,,,and its already Happening
    two ways, through govt and thorugh churches.
    first came watered down truth
    then the church could easily embrace HITLER
    guess waht they had the same similiar movments
    THIS is how satan works……..
    REMEMBER jesus was betrayed by JUDAS,
    so too HIS BODY shall soon be betrayed by those who even ate bread , and called on his name……….ONLY they did it in pretnece
    not in heart. THERE is NOTHING new under the sun.
    Fear mongoring against bible believing christians
    has been happening,
    and they do it wisely. they dont come against CHRISTAINTY,
    they even say good things about it.
    or those who put GOD before all else.
    THAT IS US……………………
    but they do it wisely, they use extremist hate right wing groups
    as the example of what a FUNDAMENTALIST IS
    YET they also use four main points
    which INCLUDE all OF US.
    thus people fear anyone who holds the bible as GODS WORD
    and are beginning to see a need of law enforcement etc
    to monitor them etc……….
    ITS a setup from the word GO……….
    NEW age is all OVER the place…………..because its a religion
    that is in all FLESH. and the carnal mind can easily accept it
    adn its false salvation. JUST READ THE ARTICLE.

  58. Lightning Storm Apr 11th 2013

    Divine Love shown to someone does NOT preclude acceptance of their sin, nor approval.

    watchful gave us an EXCELLENT example of how Jesus deals with the LOST.

    Jesus did NOT REBUKE NOR CONDEMN the woman caught in adultery. He did not read the word to her and try to convince her she was a sinner. He did not tell her she was going to burn in hell. He did not give her a salvation message and tell her to say the sinner’s prayer.
    He did not spend hours convincing her she needs repentance, salvation, and attendance at the local church.

    He barely said ANYTHING! What He did do was write in the dirt things for her ACCUSERS that CONVICTED AND PIERCED THEIR HEARTS.
    HE LOVED HER and FORGAVE HER and told her to SIN NO MORE.
    It was the DUNAMIS Power of His Love that transformed her life and He confirmed it by His last words spoken to her.

    Yet on the other hand, those who called themselves BELIEVERS IN THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND SAID THEY FOLLOWED HIM, Jesus took WHIPS to them; He also called them out and called them hypocrites, white washed sepulchres, and snakes. (among other things)

    AMEN for your post fabakary, watchful, and Paul you had a good word for us all when you said the following:

    “We measure against the very blackest backdrops, others-more evil than ourselves? Whereas, God measures us all against the Extreme Holiness we cannot even imagine. God help us all!”

  59. May I ask “Lightning Storm” why you post under a pseudonym?

  60. Jda016 Apr 11th 2013

    The lie that there is no Hell is incredibly insidious! It’s implications are more far-reaching than people realize.

    If there is no final judgement or punishment for sin (hell) then it makes Jesus’ death on the cross null and void. If no one receives judgement, then there is no need for a Savior and if there is no need for a Savior then all go to Hell.

    This lie is extremely ghastly and if the devil can get people to believe there is no Hell, then they can never find true Salvation no matter how much they say they love Jesus.

  61. Marilyn Crow,

    Do you go to a Mormon church or have been influenced by Mormon doctrine?

    Your post sounds exactly like what the Mormons teach. I have witnessed to a number of Mormons and know of the beliefs they hold to.

    Many things you have shared in other posts sound like Mormonism as well. I was just wondering.


  62. Serenity Apr 12th 2013

    So much truth in these posts, and, as usual, Lee Grady has something right-on to say.

    This nails it for me : ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit God’s kingdom ? BE NOT DECEIVED : neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
    (1 Cor. 6 : 9 -10.)

    So clear. Let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily besets us, and run our race, LOOKING UNTO JESUS Who was tempted in ALL ! points, as we are. ALL ! Wow !

  63. Serenity Apr 12th 2013

    Yes Jda016, if there is no judgment to come and no hell for the reBELLious (sorry, yielded to temptation there), then why struggle against sin in all its many forms ?

    Jesus told those who wished to end up among the eternally saved, to ”Strive to enter by the narrow door”.
    No room for sin ‘baggage’ there. (Luke 13 : 24.)

    The gospel of total tolerance is a siren song luring the unstable onto the shoals of destruction.

    Thank you randall lowrey for warning us about where all this is heading.
    I commend the youtube video ”I Saw the Tribulation”, a clear revelation FROM THE LORD (not manmade), as to where things are headed. Pastor Ken Peters simply tells it as he received it from the Lord.

    God bless you all.

  64. Lightning Storm Apr 12th 2013

    Hmmm……. Andrew J Horton….do you not see anyone else using pseudonyms? Why not ask them .

    How do I know you are not posting under a pseudonym?
    I would have to see picture ID.

    I can call myself Charlie Gray, but you would not know that is my legal name, would you now?

  65. Lightning Storm Apr 12th 2013

    Andrew J Horton…..has something I posted OFFENDED you?

  66. Who I am “Lightning Storm” is readily available for anyone to investigate…

    Those who serve the Lord have nothing to hide…

  67. Lightning Storm Apr 12th 2013

    That is foolishness, Andrew.

    If I ask for your phone number, address, and driver’s license number, would you give it to me?
    So you are saying that anyone can Google your name and get PRIVATE INFORMATION about you, and you are OK with that?

    I am not OK with strange people calling me or visiting me or stealing my identity………WISDOM is a necessary facet of the Holy Spirit.

    You are taking risks that the Holy Spirit calls foolishness by giving out “too much information”.

  68. May I ask whether you are the same poster “Lightning Storm” as the poster who used to post under the pseudonyms “Happy Trails”, “Zadok” & “New Jerusalem” previously on John the Baptist TV?

  69. Philip Vermaak Apr 12th 2013

    Some say good ole Bell others tell the truth

  70. Serenity Apr 12th 2013

    Kitty, your call for us to ”save your hatred for the liars and murderers” cannot go unanswered.
    Jesus died on the Cross to save ALL. ALL were worthy of hell. We are not to hate any.

    The apostle Paul had sent Christ-followers to death, even forcing them to blaspheme their Saviour.
    What about the girls who have been counselled, and even forced, to abort their unborn child ?

    I think of David Berkowitz who was demonized from birth and went on to kill US citizens randomly.
    After 10 years in prison he was enabled to call upon the Lord for mercy, and to be saved.
    (His Christian Journal can be read online.)

    Let us save our hatred for the evil one and the evil he provokes, and pray for the salvation of his victims ”the liars and the murderers”.

  71. Were we not warned…………..was it not said of LoNG ago
    that a FALLING away HAD TO OCCUR first.
    These be those days.
    Bell and scores of others…………and many dont test a word
    they hear.
    But this proverb comes to mind
    THE SIMPLE believe EVERY word; but a PRUDENT man
    LOOKS well to his going………..
    What we are seeing will only worsen.
    in time all false teachers, prosperity gosple, etc
    men of the world ,
    will go after this new age religoin of all roads lead
    and no hellfire , no destuction unto any
    so live for today………………etc…..
    But do watch………….because it is happening FASTER and faster.
    td jakes, benny, bell, and scores of others, olsten
    rick warren………..BIG churches and fastest growing as well
    are all being led into delusion……………..and soon
    STRONG delusion, for they LOVED not the TRUTH, that they may be saved. What is coming aint a suprise
    not at all………………..THESE be the days
    the apostels warned us of
    these be the days……………..CHRIST warned us of……..
    WHEN time is about up…………..
    WE in those days………………..
    I love you all. Have no fear
    for THOSE whO LOVE the TRUTH of our LORD
    and take serious the unctions of the spirit
    indwelling us by Grace…………..those shall endure till the end
    faithful……………SO take HEED to the SPIRIT
    and TEST all YOU HEAR, against SOUND doctrine.
    be blessed.

  72. Marilyn Crow Apr 12th 2013

    Gary B.

    Wow, I nearly flipped at that one. Mormanism. Can you be more specific where you think I`ve strayed from the truth? You said, `many things you have shared…` & what are those specific things that are Mormanism.

    Amazed. Marilyn.

  73. AJH

    🙂 🙂 🙂


  74. Marilyn Crow Apr 12th 2013

    Gary B.

    Actually I am third generation Apostolic Denomination. I was taught by those who came out of the Welsh revival & those mentored by them. My grandparents came out of Scotland & brought the Apostolic Teachings to Australia in the 1930`s. My grandfather & my uncle were Presidents of that movement/denomination in their time, in Australia & New Zealand & what I have posted is Apostolic/Pentecostal Doctrine.

    Hope that helps. Marilyn.

  75. Hi Serenity,

    I notice you say above,

    Jesus told those who wished to end up among the eternally saved, to ”Strive to enter by the narrow door”.
    No room for sin ‘baggage’ there. (Luke 13 : 24.)

    Who do you believe The Narrow Door was who Jesus was referring to?

    When you come to faith in Jesus do you believe that in terms of your eternal salvation God still sees any sin ‘baggage’ on you?

    If you’ve entered through Jesus – The Door – and your life is now hidden with Christ in God and you’ve been made the Righteousness of God in Christ how can God still see any sin ‘baggage’ in you which would make Him not accept His Son’s Perfect Sacrifice which you have believed in for your salvation?

  76. watchful Apr 12th 2013

    oh boy, sometimes it’s just plain icky around here, and that’s not something to smile about. I’m very sorry you were treated that way Lightning Storm and am not in agreement with it at all.

    AJH , there is the aspect that we actually must WALK through that door which is the veil of Jesus’ torn flesh…it is a walk in real life, not just believing it happens like magic. This is the PROVING of our faith. Passing through the pieces of His flesh bit by bit, just like Abraham’s clay pot with fire in it passing through the pieces of the sacrifice. Because if we really believe it, if our faith is real, we will walk it out, corresponding to the pieces of our flesh/carnal nature as we crucify it by the carrying of our cross.

  77. watchful Apr 12th 2013

    …that is the biggest problem I see with the churches that are so far off track, because they have lain down their crosses, and they believe only. There is no planting of the corn of wheat in the ground to die, only ear-tickling messages about our fabulous destiny at the top of the spiritual social-climbing ladder.

  78. To all who LOVE the LORD in sincerity………
    May the LORD GOD cause HIS face to shine upon you.
    May we walk pleasing unto HIM, by faith in CHRIST
    and may we resist all evils of the flesh.
    To each and all you are loved.
    And i say…………….BLESSED be the NAME of the LORD.
    TO our GOD belongs mercies and His compassions fail NOT.
    FOR were it not for HIS mercies and compassions upon us each and every day…………….we would but have long ago been destroyed. BUT with the LORD is mercy and with Him daily is our benefits….
    SO strive to enter in at the strait and narrow and may all
    be found as they would want to be found.
    Warn any in a sin to come out quick and remember
    one who does saves a soul from death.
    Keep bodies subjected, and walk by the POWER of the SPIRIT
    and you will NOT fullfill the lusts of the flesh.
    Fight and contend for the true faith which was first given unto those
    who both walked and heard HIM.
    all of which fullfill the law . HIS law now magnified, made honorable upon our hearts. NOT the letter
    but by the SPIRIT. Avoid hereseas and ramblings
    of men of corrupted minds, men who have erred from the faith
    and now embrace this world , its lusts and the pride of life
    of the eye. KEEP your whole mind and heart, SINGLE
    above in heaven. and do all you do as unto the LORD.
    walking in mercy towards the lost
    and exhorting the believers to keep the same mind which was in CHRIST. HUMBLE and all to the GLORY of GOD
    and the reward ETERNAL given at the END .
    Be blessed and know all are loved. AND dig ever deep

  79. Lightning Storm Apr 12th 2013

    Dear Marilyn

    You shouldn’t have to defend yourself to your ACCUSERS.


  80. Marilyn Crow,

    Thanks for sharing. I did not realize some of the apostolic doctrine that was taught. Some things sound close to what Mormons teach on the hereafter and did not know your background.

    Thanks again for sharing.

    Sorry I just read your first post. When you mentioned some think there is only heaven and hell, and that there is more in God’s great kingdom. Then you mentioned the part about who is ruling in each realm, and who God says who is destined to rule in each realm.

    These statements made me think this, as the mormons believe in different realms, where those of us who are not mormons cannot enter. Celestrial, telestrial, etc.. (These are spelled wrong).

    I may also have you mixed up with another poster here, in other articles. I apologize for that. Thanks for being kind and not getting all offended on this.


    Now if we can just find out Lighting Storms pseudonyms. 🙂

  81. Marilyn Crow Apr 12th 2013

    Great Gary B. I enjoy the working through as it tests our heart`s attitude & I need lots of practice.

    I like the name Lightning Storm, reminds me of Christ`s judgment throne in Rev. 4: 6
    `And from the throne proceed flashes of lightning & sounds & peals of thunder.`
    `hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, & from the wrath of the Lamb.` (Rev. 6: 6)

    A warning perhaps!!!! Marilyn.

  82. watchful Apr 12th 2013

    me too Marilyn, I’m afraid I need lots of practice too, more than you, because there is a patience and sweetness about you that is very evident…a sweet savor to God of the offering on the altar, it is bearing fruit unto the Lord.

    I have been thinking what a blessing it must be to have a heritage such as yours, and three generations deep….! It makes me long for another revival like that one…….to see what Britain is today makes me weep.

  83. Hi Therese,

    You said above,

    oh boy, sometimes it’s just plain icky around here, and that’s not something to smile about. I’m very sorry you were treated that way Lightning Storm and am not in agreement with it at all.

    What exactly are you referring to Therese?

  84. May I ask you another question “Lightning Storm”? Have you also previously posted on either John the Baptist TV or Revival School under the pseudonym of “Dunamis”?

  85. watchful Apr 13th 2013

    Andrew J, I don’t know what it is that makes a person want to back someone up against a wall and violate their will and privacy, perhaps they themselves were treated like that at some time, but whatever the reason, when it happens it is an icky feeling, and of course, wrong. For most, the issue of respect is not hard and they simply respect other people’s wishes and boundaries with respect to their names, or with respect to any reasonable thing for that matter. Even here you don’t want to use the name I post by Andrew, I don’t know why that is, unless you would like to explain. But you don’t have to, you see, because I respect your right not to if you don’t want to, for whatever reasons of your own.

  86. What do you see wrong Therese with asking “Lightning Storm” these questions?

  87. Andrew J Horton,
    -Your inquiry of another person using pseudonyms, may be legitimate, sincere and well meaning. Perhaps your wording needs tweaked a bit? You may be coming across as slightly invasive; perhaps combative? I don’t consider myself savvy on the use of the internet. Haven’t been on here very many years. I initially versed in basic safety by a friend. They encouraged a continual changing of names when using blogs. Many change names for internet safety alone. They aren’t trying to be deceptive at all. Sometimes there are stalkers and trolls who get very ‘trollish’ 😀 I have heard horror stories of folks who wish they had put such simple precautions in place and observed them religiously. Hope I haven’t offended you! God bless you!

  88. Hi Paul,

    My question to “Lightening Storm” as to why he uses a pseudonym is not a violation of his privacy…

    I honestly want to know…

    My question to “Lightening Storm” as to whether he’s previously used “Happy Trails”, “Zadok”, “New Jerusalem” & “Dunamis” as pseudonyms on either this or the John the Baptist TV website is also not a violation of his privacy…

    I honestly want to know…

    Love in the Lord,


  89. Hi, this is Kevin, the same Kevin from JBTV etc and yes Kevin is my real name.

    I stepped back from online ” fellowship ” etc some time back , as I personally don’t see it as being particularly relationship based in terms of the example of discipleship that Lord Jesus Christ set us to follow, except when we use the Internet email phone etc to contact people that we have actually come to know personally.

    The on-line environment is often used by those with an agenda ,which is not walking in the light together , and can often end up in a merry go round of words and arguments that are more about validating ones own views than walking in the light together.
    This can be very fruitless and time consuming , and the resulting conflict often becomes a burden to those involved which can keep them from growing and knowing and doing the real work that Jesus would have them do.

    So my experience from the past is not to expect too much from on-line blogs like this , and not to let them become a distraction to getting on with understanding and knowing what Lord Jesus Christ would have me do in service to Him.

    In His love


  90. watchful Apr 13th 2013

    Andrew J – it’s just common courtesy is all. We might be curious about all kinds of things concerning someone, information to which we are not entitled. Some questions we should just not ask at all, and some questions we should ask in an open-ended way that allows the person their rightful perogative whether to answer or not. There is nobody here committing crimes against the state, and dear brother I hope you are not the Gestapo.

  91. Rule 1 Never ask any personal questions as this is very offensive and may cause someone to become paranoid.

    Rule 2 If you accidently ask a personal question be prepared to have Christian fruit thrown at you for trying to be friendly.

    Rule 3 You must humbly acknowledge that you asked a question.

    Rule 4 Its okay to let people know of their horrible offense.

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  92. Andrew, – re: There is nobody here committing crimes against the state, and dear brother I hope you are not the Gestapo.

    Directed toward no specific person, generally toward us all well intended posters. . I do not believe there is any such here either (state offender / Gestapo). If so, it is between you and Him. Yet, there is a Far Greater to offend here than state. Every sin is first toward God. But, to deliberately stir a brother against brother or sister against sister, is to set the Body working evil against itself. A spiritual dysfunction rendering us weak and unable to stand against the ‘real enemy’ – it defeats us all (except for the enemy who wins via dividing us). An act against Christ’s Body, is against Christ, be it carelessness, indifference,apathy, or deliberate. We all learn alot from these posts, until this evil spirit pits one against another. It isn’t the Spirit we seek to prevail here.
    God bless all seeking unity and true growth in Him.

  93. YIKES ! ! I meant to direct the above post to Watchful, not to Andrew. So sorry Andrew! LOL..God help me, a simpleton soul! Please forgive me all! 🙁 !


    WATCHFUL – re: There is nobody here committing crimes against the state, and dear brother I hope you are not the Gestapo.

    Directed toward no specific person, generally toward us all well intended posters. . I do not believe there is any such here either (state offender / Gestapo). If so, it is between you and Him. Yet, there is a Far Greater to offend here than state. Every sin is first toward God. But, to deliberately stir a brother against brother or sister against sister, is to set the Body working evil against itself. A spiritual dysfunction rendering us weak and unable to stand against the ‘real enemy’ – it defeats us all (except for the enemy who wins via dividing us). An act against Christ’s Body, is against Christ, be it carelessness, indifference,apathy, or deliberate. We all learn alot from these posts, until this evil spirit pits one against another. It isn’t the Spirit we seek to prevail here.
    God bless all seeking unity and true growth in Him.

  94. john M Apr 13th 2013

    I think that Kevin Bubna (above) has it right about Rob Bell. The Bible is the manufacturer,s handbook. If you don’t stick to Biblical standards
    where are you? Answer ; all over the place and misleading everyone and ultimately lost

  95. Jo Sappenfield Apr 14th 2013

    Sin is evil. It doesn’t play fair. It seduces the those who have ligitimate needs–God created needs. It is easy to be tossed about by every wind–REBOUNDING off of the poppy cock passed off as leadership and 5-fold ministry–so clothing those who lie in wait to deceive because they think that they don’t need to pick up their cross in order to follow Jesus. But we each have one. God knew that because of our predisposition toward going astray, our walk with Him comes complete with suffering–and it sets us apart from an unbelieving world whose doctrine–world view–or whatever you want to call it enobles and justifies hedonism. That very insidious spirit–the pleasures of sin–is masquerading as the prosperity gospel and the natural outcome–the next step if you will is the “tinkling “bell”–rather than the lone cry of the trumpet coming from the lips of one willing to pay the price to really walk with Jesus.

  96. Jo Sappenfield Apr 14th 2013

    Rob Bell is the “church’s” offspring.

  97. Jo sappenfield is correct…………..
    these latter day men, are the offspring
    of churches who were of prosperity gosples etc
    with none to correct with sound doctrine, the leaven has and only will leaven much worse.
    in short time the fruits of bad trees, with less men to rebuke,
    theleaven will have lumped the whole to this new age religion
    of all roads lead , and then the one world religion of all roads lead
    will no longer just be a fast growing concept
    it will then be LAW of the land, to be used to round
    up the true lambs. and this is fast approaching.

  98. marilyn – there IS only heaven or hell especially after the 1000 years – do you not know that the bible says that the universe will be destroyed after that period?

  99. Marilyn Crow Apr 15th 2013


    Yes, I agree that the God tells us that the universe will be destroyed, as it`s contaminated, damaged. (2 Peter 3: 10)

    However God also told us – (Is. 65: 17)

    `For behold, I create new heavens, (plural – atmospheric & celestial, where the stars are) & a new earth.`

    Good thought thought, brian, keeps us on our toes.
    All the best. Marilyn.

  100. Hi Marilyn,

    After the thousand years the present heavens and earth are destroyed by fire and New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God – this is our Eternal Resting Place – New Jerusalem – this is what Jesus is preparing for us (I go to prepare a place for you) – a room (each) in the many rooms of New Jerusalem after we reign with Him on earth for the thousand years…

    Love in the Lord,


  101. Roger (NZ) Apr 15th 2013

    This first passage from Rev. explains that the old is passed away, the new is created, and the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven – where God will tabernacle with man.

    Rev 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God…

    These next two passages describe the same city, and that both God the Father and Lord Jesus continue to dwell there.

    Rev 21:22-25 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

    Rev 22:2-5 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    In Genesis we read that God created Heaven and Earth, then man – since the cross of crucifixion, God has been recreating man (born-again) and will then re-create Heaven and Earth.

    Was not His intention all along to create somewhere He could fellowship with man..?

  102. Marilyn Crow Apr 16th 2013

    Yes good thought Roger.

    The New Jerusalem is the administration centre connecting the spiritual & physical realms. A wonderful place for God to have fellowship with man.

    Christ Himself is the ultimate place to have fellowship with the Father as we know it, though. And being kings & priests of the new order of priests the Body of Christ is destined for a greater
    eternal setting.

    And Andrew J. I can see why you believe we go to the New Jerusalem but that is not my eternal home. It is still in the third heaven on Christ`s throne with Him. (Rev. 3: 21)

    Sorry to have to disagree, but this forum is a good opportunity
    to discuss some of these matters.

    Together with Him. Marilyn.

  103. booter Apr 16th 2013

    “I see No Problem with Rob Bell’s gospel” (if you believe in: the shack, gold dust, angel feathers, or any other ‘numerous’ Aberrent gospels which seek to Distract GOD’s Church). However if you Believe in: The One True GOD, The Bible, The Ten Commandments, and the other foundational pillars of The Christian Faith. Then Yes! you would have problems with anything these popular False Prophets teach…

    Rob Bell states ‘the Church has to change & adapt’ it sounds like he believes in Evolution of the Spiritual-kind, in opposition to the Truth of ‘JESUS/GOD is the same Yesterday, and Today,and Forever’.

    To quote Rob Bell’s earlier teachings “there is no Literal Hell or Actual Place of Eternal Damnation, and that every individual which has ever lived throughout History will reside Forever in Heaven = because a Loving GOD would Never do that to HIS children.”

    Even though I know what The Bible says concerning all of this, and I know through The Book of Revelation what to expect, I am still shocked and saddened by every new development from those who think they are doing this in GOD’s Will.

    GOD Bless and Pray Without Ceasing…

  104. Hi Marilyn,

    I really struggle to understand how someone who has the Holy Spirit living in them, who has a new heart and a new spirit and a righteous soul can reject the clear teaching of God’s word…

    Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned. (Titus 3:10-11 NASB)

    I am going to discontinue communication with you…

    Love in the Lord,


  105. It is amazing they have not fired Lee Grady yet. Oh that many more would sound the alarm of the abuses in charismatic western christianity.