THE END-TIME ELIJAHS – David Wilkerson

The Old Testament closes with this amazing prophecy of Malachi: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse” (Malachi 4:5-6).

This prophecy was fulfilled in great measure in the ministry of John
the Baptist. An angel appeared to John’s father and prophesied
that his son would turn many in Israel to the Lord and that “he
shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias (Elijah), to turn
the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to
the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the
Lord” (Luke 1:17).

John was anointed with the same fearless Spirit and power which
was upon Elijah. He spoke openly about the sins of disobedient,
pleasure-seeking people of his day. Christ was soon to appear
and this mighty man of truth suddenly came on the scene to
prepare a people for the Lord. This wilderness prophet was sent
to turn the hearts of the people (which is the truest definition of
repentance) to the Lord. John preached repentance, restitution,
purity of heart, justice, and a practical walk of holiness to
correspond with an open confession of sins.

I believe the prophet Malachi, as well as other Old Testament
prophets, speaks of a company of holy people who will be raised
up just prior to Christ’s second coming. They will minister under
the very same Spirit and power that rested upon Elijah and John
the Baptist.

This last-day Elijah company of believers will heed the prophecy
of Isaiah, “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet,
and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob
their sins” (Isaiah 58:1). These are the watchmen upon the walls,
“which shall never hold their peace day nor night . . . and give
him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise
in the earth” (Isaiah 62:6-7).

-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic below-

-Source- http://www.worldchallenge.org/en/node/22108

© 2013 World Challenge – a registered trademark of David Wilkerson

Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on March 26th, 2013 at 10:05 am.

250 comments

250 Replies

  1. Amen for this powerful Word!!!! I too am in agreement that The Lord is preparing the way for His coming with the same Elijah anointing. There is no new thing under the sun, that which has been is that which shall be.

  2. This ‘word’ of Wilkerson’s I see as partly correct, yet very wrong. Yes, there will be “holy people…just prior to Christ’s second coming”. But, they will be the true Church, i.e. all true Christians who are alive at that time. There won’t be some sort of special class of Christians “raised up” especially for that purpose, while the rest of the Church is anemic. With Wilkerson’s use of “Elijah company” and other language in this ‘word’, this sounds dangerously close to the elitism which Mike Bickle et al is pushing, – the “victorious church” of Bickle’s “Apostolic Pre-Millennialism” teaching, as but one example out there.

    And yes, “They will minister under the very same Spirit and power that rested upon Elijah”, and Moses [see Revelation 11], as well as John the Baptist. In the G.K. Beale and D.A. Carson (editors) Commentary of the New Testament Use of the Old Testament, the following is stated with reference to the ‘two witnesses’ of Revelation 11 (the chapter on Revelation written by Beale and Sean M. McDonough):

    …The OT law demands that a minimum of two witnesses be required for just judgment (Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15). Thus the two witnesses are not two actual individual prophets; rather, they symbolize the corporate prophetic witness of the church. [2007 Baker Publishing, Grand Rapids, MI; p 1119. Emphasis added.]

    This “prophetic witness” is not even exclusively for those alive at that time. The Gospel of John (14:15 – 16:15) describes how the Holy Spirit works in and through Christians including ‘convicting the world of sin in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment’ [John 16:8]; and, it seems probable that the seeds of truth which came via the Holy Spirit through even the recently deceased Christians at that time will reach some people in that fateful day.

    My concern is that many will take Wilkerson’s ‘word’ and assume it aligns with Mike Bickle’s (and others’) teaching, which sounds not unlike the goal as set forth by the demon speaking through Alice Bailey almost 100 years ago:

    The Christian church in its many branches can serve as a St. John the Baptist, as a voice crying in the wilderness, and as a nucleus through which world illumination may be accomplished…The church must show a wide tolerance…The church as a teaching factor should take the great basic doctrines and (shattering the old forms in which they are expressed and held) show their true and inner spiritual significance [ED: occult/esoteric meaning]. The prime work of the church is to teach, and teach ceaselessly, preserving the outer appearance in order to reach the many who are accustomed to church usages. Teachers must be trained; Bible knowledge must be spread; the sacraments must be mystically interpreted, and the power of the church to heal must be demonstrated. [Alice A. Bailey, The Externalisation of the Hierarchy. © 1957 Lucis, NY, 6th printing 1981; Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY; pp 510-511; (bold added for emphasis.) While the book was not published until 1957, most sections within the book have corresponding dates of initial writing, or, more accurately, transmission. The portion quoted here is from 1919, some of the earliest writings of Bailey.]

    Clearly, Bailey is speaking of the coming Antichrist, the “substitute Christ” that many will be fooled into thinking is the real Jesus (see Rev 13). When I read in the above “world illumination may be accomplished” I can’t help but think of the international part of Bickle’s IHOP moniker; and, I see other potential parallels as well.

    Here are a couple more quotes from Bailey which should give us pause:

    The Son of God is on His way and he cometh not alone. His advance guard is already here and the Plan which they must follow is already made and clear…. [Bailey, Alice A. The Reappearance of the Christ. 1948, Lucis Trust, 9th printing 1979 (4th paperback ed.); Fort Orange Press, Albany, NY; p 60]

    [They are] already active in the form of the New Group of World Servers; they are as potent a body of forerunners as has ever preceded a great world Figure into the arena of mankind’s living… [Bailey Externalisation, p 598]

  3. Markus Mar 26th 2013

    “These are the days of Elijah” – Elijah here and there. Many are claiming this name and spirit for themselves. In my opinion these words are handled inflationary. Or what do they really mean? We don’t know, but of cause we are in “it”.

  4. I do not know whether I am an “Elijah” type speaker or not, but I am certain the Lord has called me to speak as His Witness. I find that quite amazing, because I am unschooled according to the ways of man, but quite adept at presenting His case in the areas He has assigned me. That He has sent me to speak, largely, to those who consider themselves His is, also, quite surprising to me.

    Upon reflection it does seem to fit, given that both Elijah and John the Baptist, were faced with a body that had abandoned the truth and neither fit the stereotype priest of their day. I definitely do not fit, being both a woman and unschooled, yet, the Lord has graciously allowed me to reach some and proven out the truth of His word to me in many ways — causing even some unbelievers to remark of the evidence of the Spirit in the way He has used me.

    There will always be those who misinterpret the truth of God. If we let that stand in the way of following His lead, we wouldn’t ever speak. To be sure the “believers” who came against me would have negated the ministry I’ve been called to altogether. I doubt I’ll ever run out of people who believe it their duty to order me to sit down and shut up, but God has and is still using me. I think the question is: who will we listen to?

    I know for a fact that when I am speaking, God is using that effort and producing fruit. It is only when I am silent that He reveals His great displeasure. So, whether it pleases man or not, I intend to continue to speak and go wherever He leads.

  5. Barry Schmidt Mar 26th 2013

    I highly respect brother Wilkerson as a man of God and honot him for all the good he has done for Gods people. But he is not biblical on two major accounts in this article:
    1.While God will always have His salt and light on the earth. I think it is a stretch of the text to say that they will be “an Elijah Company”.
    Where in the Bible is this promised? Anyone who CLAIMS to be “Elijah” or says that either a person or a company of people is “the Elijah” completely missed what Jesus said . HE SAID, ” Elijah HAS COME and they have done to him whatever they wanted.”
    Clearly Jesus NEVER SAID ELIJAH WAS STILL TO COME. He was referring to John the Baptist and not some mystical Elijah company. This dictrine has no foundation in biblical reality. It is a bogus Pentecistal doctrine that started in the 1940,s and was popularized in the 1980’s by the Pentecostal prophets of the mid western United States.

    2. The other proof text in used to in this article is from Isaiah where God calls Isaiah to call Point out His people’s sins.
    Tho too is taken completely out of context. It was written to the Jews of the day and nowhere does Jesus or any of the writers of the New Testament use this passage or command any of the church to “point out the sins of my people.”

    This too is coming from a modern revivalism that has no foundation in biblical reality.
    Nowhere in the NT do we see Jesus or the apostles commanding us to preach sin. We are called to preach Christ, preach the gospel and preach repentance – which is to change ones mind from trusting self to trusting Christ alone.
    Preaching sin DOESN’T SAVE OR HELP ANYONE.
    PREACHING CHRIST AN HIM CRUCIFIED IS THE ONLY MESSAGE THAT SAVES, DELIVERS FROM SIN AND SANCTIFIES GODS PEOPLE,

  6. Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, among those born of women, no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is.” (Mt 11:11).

    The least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist.

    Why?

    Because every true Christian has the anointing of the Holy Spirit, which is far greater than the spirit of Elijah!

    Why would we need the spirit of Elijah when each believer possesses something greater?

    Are we falling short of what God intended for believers by looking for the spirit of Elijah when, in fact, we possess something much greater? Are we really living and attaining to the level of spiritual life that God intends for us?

  7. Interesting how the primary sin in the so-called Christian church is being judgmental. All others get a pass. It’s those who declare and expose the transgressions and sins of the people of the Lord, who are the most hated and rejected.

    The so-called leaders are DUMB! They’re like dumb dogs; they won’t even bark a warning at the sin that is encroaching and overtaking them. (see Isaiah 56:10)

  8. One of the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11?

  9. Kathleen in WA State Mar 26th 2013

    I’m with those who exercise caution in considering this good word from the late David Wilkerson.

    We have far too many self-styled prophets today who speak gibberish (and that, I fear, for the sake of self-aggrandizement). Too, I am aware that many believers run to-and-fro to hear this word and that, providing an open forum to the false prophets we’ve been warned about.

    If ever we needed to be lead of His Spirit and to be granted discernment, today is that day.

    I pray God raises up many & mighty voices that speak forth truth from His word & by His spirit.

    “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.” 1 John 4:1-3

  10. I believe the Wilkerson prophecy is partly correct. However, we are not to expect its fulfillment in “elite Christians”, even though there will be some who may get the privilege of speaking to kings or prominent people just like Elijah and John the Baptist did.

    The way I understand it and have received it from the Lord in my personal prayer time and Bible reading is this: EVERY BELIEVER is called to walk in Christ, be absolutely surrendered and submitted to God’s will. All of us have the Holy Spirit, which includes but is not limited to, the Spirit of Elijah, a spirit that calls every person, believer or unbeliever, to repentance.
    The problem is, too many of us resist the Holy Spirit. Too many of us struggle against the Holy Spirit’s urges to surrender more, trust more, deny our self-will and declare in every deed and thought that Jesus Christ is KING.

    So in a way, it makes sense for God to raise a few submitted believers to show the contrast and put us to shame for our lukewarmness! God will do it with each and every one of us if only we will believe and TRUST Him with our lives, and have a determination, like Daniel, not to allow the world to pollute our souls, and live only for God’s glory.

    Will this Elijah-like Christians cause an awakening? I wouldn’t dare to say so. In many cases, they will be mocked, even hated by other “believers”. If we read the revelation text, people who speak the truth will be killed! (And I believe many people in our congregations are in fact sons of the devil, and not TRUE believers. Perhaps some will have a road to Damascus conversion.) I know that SOME people will be brought to repentance by the faithful example of true disciples. I’m seeing it happen.

    I understand the concern of many of you about what this kind of prophecy can be associated with. My personal belief is that there are two final “awakenings”: one, on a big scale, is counterfeit. It’s the great apostasy we’re seeing. The other awakening is true and happens on a “micro” scale. It’s personal, it may involve “many” (around 30?) members of a local congregation, but will most certainly avoid “megachurches”. It will not be talked about in the media, and we’ll never find out about it unless WE experience it or are very attentive to what’s happening around us.

    The way to be participants and not spectators of a true personal awakening? Pray for the Father to awaken you! Pray for Him to bring more of the Holy Spirit to remind you of everything Jesus has said and REVEAL His truth to you, so that it won’t be mere “head knowledge” but a HEART pierced to the core by the Word! Repent of any known, even hidden sin! Surrender! Believe in Jesus and trust Him more! Obey His commands, especially His commandment to love Him with all your heart and love your neighbor as Jesus has loved you!

  11. miss bridgewater Mar 26th 2013

    Leave it to the Pentecostals to believe they are the ones doing all this, but when you read just prior to Israels restoration, God destroys the false ones which I believe are today, THEN it will be the tribes of Israel that will be gifted, all I can see today is a bunch of deceived evangelicals rushing all over the world spreading apostasy and occult, with the unclean spirit that God said he would clear the land of at the time of Israels restoration. Why do so many rejoice! when missionaries are out there spreading plagues, and unclean spirits. The Vatican with so called evangelicals will trample over Israel and bring in all their false idols, false spirits, etc for 3.5 years, then bam! sudden destruction. God used single men over the course of generations to be true prophets, yet here you have everyone thinking they got the power and gifts of God. obviously not as this has been around now for over a hundred years and no real revival.

  12. Johan Laubser Mar 26th 2013

    I fully agree with what Barry Schmidt said. We are being missled by “prophets for proffit and priests for people” so that the good news of Jesus cannot be proclaimed. As long as people can be held under condemnation, they can be fed lies so that the leader’s personal agendas can be met. Jesus paid the full price. FULL STOP! As long as you can be misled to believe you have to add anything to that,ie Jesus plus whatever, then you are following another jesus, in other words you are committing addultary as his bride, because the Real Groom had the price paid in full. If you cannot believe that Jesus had freed us from ALL sin, then I cannot see how you can claim to be His follower and a child of the Living God ,The Father.
    Allow the Holy Spirit to minister the truth to you and do not gather teachers who tickle your ears. The Holy Spirit does not tickle,He CONVINCES! YOU CANNOT EARN YOUR SALVATION ,NOR ADD ANYTHING TO WHAT JESUS HAD DONE. When you grasped this truth, you will start living a holy life out of thankfullness for what He has done. He has given you RIGHTIOUSNESS THROUGH HIM! God bless!

  13. Stephen Mar 26th 2013

    I won’t and don’t call myself a prophet. If the message I feel the Lord would have me convey turns out to be prophetic so be it. I don’t focus on it but rather trying to live with a “seek first the kingdom” attitude and let God use me how He will. The messages I have been given to deliver have been some warning, some encouragement, but all directed at the “church” which I believe is largely asleep in its own ignorance and tradition. Would you consider me a type of Elijah? What really did he preach that every other old testament prophet didn’t. They all largely had the same message. Repent and turn from sin. Get right with God. His wrath is coming. Its the same message Peter preached at Pentecost. Paul too. In fact it hasn’t ever really changed.

    Do my messages make me special in any way? Do people celebrate a fine wine or the bottle that it’s in? Do they dump a bottle of expensive perfume on the ground so they can keep the bottle on a shelf? Better that they consume the priceless contents and throw the bottle in the recycling then waste what’s inside and celebrate the $0.50 container. If I were that bottle I would hop off the shelf and throw myself in the trash just to prove the point.

  14. miss bridgewater Mar 26th 2013

    Barry! YOU ARE SPOT ON! Glad to see someone else in agreement with what I see in Gods word! Evangelicals/pentecostals began spreading the unclean spirit from its very birth at least in this country, I know many dont want to hear it, but face it, you either except truth or keep on in error and receive a plague.

  15. Stephen Mar 26th 2013

    Miss Bridgewater,

    Are you saying that Wesley, Finney and the likes of Jim Elliot and Nate Saint were spreading an unclean spirit. As far as I know they were all “evangelicals” Are you saying Azusa St. was demonic? That was where the Pentecostal Movement began if I am not mistaken. That’s a pretty broad tar brush you are using.

    Just curious whether I am understanding you correctly.

  16. Jonah, I am one of those who believe we should be preaching Christ and Him crucified, and that message should be at the core of EVERY message that is taught in our churches and in our personal attempts at evangelism and discipling others. At least Catholics have a Gospel portion at every service… We in the Protestant tradition have in the last 100 years or more been preaching about so many different things. Forget the centrality of the Gospel and everything is in shambles.

    Barry, you said,
    “Nowhere in the NT do we see Jesus or the apostles commanding us to preach sin. We are called to preach Christ, preach the gospel and preach repentance – which is to change ones mind from trusting self to trusting Christ alone”.
    I don’t really understand what you mean by “preach sin”. If you mean preachers and teachers should not preach AGAINST SPECIFIC sins, well, Paul dealt extensively with specific works of the flesh in all his letters. That kind of teaching is mainly aimed at believers who have understood the basics and perhaps false converts in those churches too.
    I agree 100% with the rest of what you say. But that IS like the spirit of Elijah… Elijah preached repentance, He taught Israel that there is ONLY one God and only to Him we must bow. Elijah and John the Baptist are very good role models for us, who can get somewhat confused between the human desire to “fit in” and the spiritual urge to “be separate”.
    They stood before a generation that was evil, perverse, and adulterous and were specific about what was wrong with it. They warned the people against deceit of their “teachers”. They didn’t pull their punches and neither should we!
    Paul was also “brutally frank” in many passages the Holy Spirit had him write. We can so sugarcoat our warnings that the effectiveness of the message is lost. And yet, when Jesus sends His warnings to the seven churches, He says the positive first, when there IS something positive to say, then the very bad, and then a final promise to those who believe and obey the warning. And that’s basically the pattern of the prophets. Even in Jeremiah and Lamentations, which are very sad and convicting books, we find promises for those who DO hear the warnings and repent.

    But Johan, if I understand you correctly, I believe you’re right. LEGALISM is deadly, and will not solve the human heart’s issues. In fact it makes them worse. Flesh-based “obedience” leads to arrogance, self-righteousness, a sense of “entitlement”. Or, the inability to live up to the high standards will lead us to despair and spiritual paralysis (I could speak a lot about this!). Only true faith, hope, and love, will draw us nearer to God, and by grace alone, in Christ alone, can we be sanctified. Christ in us is our hope of glory.

  17. CMAman Mar 26th 2013

    CariPau: (it may involve “many” (around 30?) members of a local congregation, but will most certainly avoid “megachurches”. It will not be talked about in the media, and we’ll never find out about it unless WE experience it or are very attentive to what’s happening around us.

    The way to be participants and not spectators of a true personal awakening? Pray for the Father to awaken you! Pray for Him to bring more of the Holy Spirit to remind you of everything Jesus has said and REVEAL His truth to you, so that it won’t be mere “head knowledge” but a HEART pierced to the core by the Word! Repent of any known, even hidden sin! Surrender! Believe in Jesus and trust Him more! Obey His commands, especially His commandment to love Him with all your heart and love your neighbor as Jesus has loved you!)
    ———————————————————
    I like this. When/if it happens, many may find themselves in a tough wilderness classroom before God. This seems often His wise way of refining and defining our purpose. John the baptist was unresisting and unrelenting to simply be ‘God’s man’.

    ie: The world has yet to see what God can do with one man who is fully committed to Him. -Moody

    We have seen that man in some men and women of old,and in John the baptist, we saw that man in the God man Jesus Christ, may he be seen in us!

  18. Barry Schmidt Mar 26th 2013

    The ONE AND ONLY sin that we are commanded to point out CONTINUALLY is the sin of UNBELIEF! We are to call people to repent of UNBELIEF! Their stubborn refusal to STOP TRUSTING in themselves and to START TRUSTING IN CHRIST ALONE!

    And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; (John 16:8, 9 NASB)
    In THE SAME WAY the ONE SIN that the Holy Spirit points out and brings continual conviction over is UNBELIEF!

    Why do people not get this? I am left scratching my head!
    Who EVER turned from sin by their own remorse, guilt or will power?

    Gods goal WAS NEVER to have people obey outwardly out of coercion, guilt, fear or other SELF CENTRED motive.
    Gods goal of our faith is to obey from the heart out of gratitude, respect and love for God and others. This can never happen by preaching SIN.
    This will ONLY HAPPEN BY PREACHING CHRIST AND CALLING PEOPLE TO REPENT OF THE SIN OF UNBELIEF!!!

  19. miss bridgewater Mar 26th 2013

    It seems pretty clear to me, that most of us will be killed either by natural disaster, nukes, or asteroids, and even many in Israel will destroyed as you can see after all of these things are past, God said he would search the nations for a small remnent , so obviously the masses are corrupt today, so it seems to me, we need to focus on our personal relationship with Christ and encourage others to do the same without the big shows spreading all over, being a spirit filled christian does not guarantee the lord wont take your physical body, may be in our best interest to be gone.

  20. BTW, I don’t claim to be special in any way. There have been many times I had a seemingly spiritual perception or impression and later I understood that it was not the Lord speaking but the flesh. So I’m just giving preliminary conclusions from what my relationship with Christ has led me to believe. If anything in the message seems Biblical and Christ-centered, and useful to help in your walk, take it. My opinion doesn’t count at all. I try to live out the command to Trust in the Lord with all my heart and lean not on my own understanding. I’m praying and calling out for grace to root out unbelief, because I agree with Barry, that’s at the core of every sin. When we fight sin, we usually fight it in the flesh, because we want to hold on to some of the credit for our “efforts”. That’s why I said, legalism brings either self-righteousness or despair.

    I would like to ask each one of you to please be patient with your brother or sister. Many of us may be wrong, but that doesn’t automatically mean we’re children of the devil. It takes GOD’s discernment, it takes the Holy Spirit’s LAMP lighting the darkest places in us, to see how much of Babylon and Egypt is still in us. Many of us are in a PROCESS of learning. That doesn’t excuse us, of course! But please, let’s imitate Christ in meekness and humility. Personally, correction given in that spirit has been much more helpful in my personal life. So, while imitating Elijah and John the Baptist in honesty, let’s also bear in mind that not all deserve to be corrected harshly. Sugarcoating and flattery? NO! But love and mercy should be the motivation of each and every rebuke, because that’s God’s way.

    I would also make explicit what Barry has suggested: every sin is a sin of idolatry, of self-love or love to lesser creatures or other form of idol.

  21. Mick 2 Mar 26th 2013

    I see people here would rather be childish than child-like. Everyone cleaves to his point of view. John came about to expose your point of views, showing you the selfish foolishness of your ways. Religion is what he came to expose. Jesus followed with an invitation to life, and presented an open door. The invitation is still on, and the door still open; get away from your petty belief systems and trust The Good Shepherd to guide you into all truth and liberty. There is an “open door” now, but those who won’t go in shall soon be left to their belief systems on the outside when the door is shut. Just follow, receive, ask, seek, knock… you shall be guided into all truth. But do heed the words of Elijah and John: Come out! You may not come into Life until you’ve come out of that which leads to death. The good news is simple enough for a child to understand. Be that child.

  22. There willbe no more Elijahs in number but the Elijahs that are there will be preaching truth – alongside those teaching false gospels. Micah says to follow the true prophets.

  23. watchful Mar 26th 2013

    Maybe there is confusion over preaching to the lost as opposed to the people of God… Elijah came to the Israelites, God’s people, who were at that time halting between two opinions, trying to serve two masters, both the Living God and Bael. John the Baptist also came to Israel, and Jesus likewise came unto His own. Elijahs to me are ones calling the people of God out of the world and back to single-minded devotion, they are humble and not generally recognized, they speak and walk in the Spirit and they are few and far between for we have many teachers but not many fathers.

    And so it is turning the heart of the Father to His children and the heart of the children to the Father………….Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, but they received Him not, except for a remnant, and so their land was cursed.

  24. Mark 1:4
    John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

    Luke 3:3
    And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;

    Luke 5:32
    I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

    Luke 13:3
    I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. (in your sins)

    Luke 15:7
    I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

    Luke 15:10
    In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

    Luke 17:3
    Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

    Luke 24:47
    and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

    Acts 2:38
    Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 3:19
    Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

    Acts 5:31
    He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Acts 8:22
    Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.

    2 Corinthians 12:21
    I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.

    Revelation 2:21
    I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.

    Revelation 2:22
    Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.

    Revelation 9:20
    The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

    Revelation 9:21
    and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

    Revelation 16:11
    and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

  25. When Jesus came the first time, He sent His cousin before Him to make the way straight. This time He has sent His mother before Him to make the way straight. Beginning with the feast of John the Baptist in 1981, Jesus’ mother has been speaking the message of repentance and conversion to the world through six visionaries in Medjugorje.

    Even though over 30 million pilgrims have visited Medjugorje already, we are now entering a phase where the whole world is going to be made aware of this ministry. The new Pope will be promoting it, and the media will be covering it as 10 secrets begin occurring to prove its validity.

    The secrets are regional disasters which will be announced world-wide three days before they take place. The third secret includes the appearance of a supernatural sign that can be seen and photographed but not touched. It will be one more proof that Jesus has sent His mother to play the role of Elijah in the endtimes.

  26. Lyle Metsker,

    You are well describing one of the delusions of today – namely Mariology.

    There are no more “secrets” or “mysteries” to be revealed. The “mystery” was fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

  27. miss bridgewater Mar 26th 2013

    Looks like poor Lyle fell for some grand deception, as if any bible believer would even consider the abomination of godess worship, he hated it in the OT and again in the NT. I dont care if that thing calling itself mary dances on the popes fish hat, they will both be destroyed soon enough.

  28. Barry Schmidt Mar 26th 2013

    because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 1:19, 21, 25 NASB)

    and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:32 NASB)

    For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, (Romans 2:14, 15 NASB)

    In the above verses GOD IS TELLING us that even the most hardened sinners KNOW THIER SIN. God says here that they know what is right and wrong, know God hates it, know what Gods will is and His righteous decrees are, have them written on their hearts etc etc.

    I didn’t say that- GOD SAID THAT!!!
    God isn’t calling us to point out and tell people their sins because God already tol us THEY ALREADY KNOW ALL THAT!

    God doesn’t need preachers who point out people’s sins. He has already been pointing them out via creation, instinct and conscience!!!

    People don’t need to hear about their sins. They NEED TO EAR ABOUT THE SAVIOR! The Only ONE who can save and deliver them from their sins.

    Preaching Law always increases sin and brings the praises of men. No one will persecute you for preaching sin. The devil is happy as long as you dont PREACH CHRIST. Preaching the good news of Jesus Christ I what brings revivals, stirs up the powers of darkness and brings persecution to a Luke warm church.

    You can outwardly obey every command of God, you can hate sin and live an outwardly perfect righteousness based on outward conformity to righteousness AND STILL GO TO HELL!!!!
    Only believing in Jesus saves, gives repentance, works inner heart felt righteousness and gets folk into heaven.

  29. Jda016 Mar 26th 2013

    Dear Barry,

    What about Matthew 18:15-17?

    “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone…” Jesus continues by saying that if he doesn’t listen bring several witnesses, and if that doesn’t work bring it before the whole church and if he still refuses to repent, let him be like a “heathen and a tax collector” (Matt. 18:15,17).

    Doesn’t Jesus tell us to preach against sin then?

  30. Barry Schmidt,

    I’m not sure all these folks actually realize their sins, though they sin nonetheless. Paul states

    4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

    These folks have no idea because their consciences have been seared! They’re hypocrites because they can no longer apprehend their own sin.

  31. Sandra G. Mar 26th 2013

    May all be blessed. Andrew, this is a very good teaching, thank you.

    Lyle Metsker, I agree with Craig, this is a delusion, those who put Mary above Jesus, or anything above HIM are deluded. Even Mary herself did not put herself above Jesus when HE was here the first time, she has been made into an idol. I have never read anything about “10” secrets that will be revealed, scripture does say that nothing is hidden that wont be revealed, but there is no specific number, and I believe this to be on an individual basis, Jesus reveals to HIS followers through the Holy Spirit the things that they need to know, when they need to know. Scripture also says to call no man Father, for there is only one Father, and that is God. We are warned by HIS HOLY word that the antichrist will give power to the beast to perform miracles in the sight of men, so that if it were possible even the elect would be deceived. So, are you saying that the Pope is going to perform these things? The Pope is just a “man”, but he has made himself into a “God”, but like scripture says, “yet, shall they die as a man”. I’m sorry, but no earthly man has replaced Jesus Christ, and never will. As far as HIS second coming, this is what HIS word says: 1Thess. 4:15-18
    For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. FOR THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN WITH A SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD: AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    Only Jesus Christ can do this, and HE will, every eye will see HIM coming on the clouds of Glory, and it wont be a televised event, it’s going to be quick, in the “blink of an eye”. This is what I believe, and this is what I stand firm in saying, Jesus is going to do exactly what HE said HE would do, just the way the HOLY scripture says HE will, no more, no less, but don’t take my word for it, just read the Bible, I recommend the KJV, they are words of truth given to us by God, and HE doesn’t change, there is nothing new under the sun, HE is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and that’s a long time.

    In HIS light,

  32. Antons Janis Mar 26th 2013

    I came on this site to raise the question of where exactly do the scriptures speak of the Spirit of Elijah company. I find no verses that would appear to envisage such a happening prior to Jesus’ return. I read a literal Elijah coming, as was John the Baptist a forerunner, to prepare the way of the Lord. Like the comments before me I find Mr Wilkerson’s comments have needed inspection and are closely related the the Latter Rain Heresy and therefore also found within the New Apostolic Reformation teachings about super apostles and prophets.
    It is elitism, a form of Pietism – some Christians being on a higher level than others thereby having a special standing before God. This is however is a hierarchy in the minds of men and not of God. The scriptures state we all have an anointing when we belong to the Lord – 1 John 2:20, 27. God is not a respecter of persons, we are each given the Holy Spirit, are gifted according to the Lord’s will, we each need to pray and confess our sins, we must all choose to walk in His ways and seek His face, all need to be changed so we become more like Jesus (sanctification).
    This does not mean we do not sound the alarm of coming judgement and call people to repentance in Jesus, but we do not need to be a super spiritual christian to do this, just walk humbly with our God and speak as opportunities arise to share the Gospel of grace as led by the Holy Spirit.

  33. Roger (NZ) Mar 26th 2013

    God doesn’t need preachers who point out people’s sins. He has already been pointing them out via creation, instinct and conscience!!!

    People don’t need to hear about their sins. They NEED TO HEAR ABOUT THE SAVIOR! The Only ONE who can save and deliver them from their sins.

    Amen Barry 🙂

    Looking back on my own life, I knew that I was a sinner, I knew that I wilfully did wrong – I didn’t need anyone to tell me of my sins – I just needed one person to introduce me to Jesus the Messiah of Almighty God.

  34. Antons Janis,

    You asked, where exactly do the scriptures speak of the Spirit of Elijah company? Short answer: they don’t, as, of course, I’m sure you know. I understand your question may have been intended as rhetorical.

    However, Revelation 11’s two witnesses are performing the things seen in both Elijah and Moses. There are different ways of looking at this; and, frankly, no one knows for sure. I don’t think we should ever build a doctrine out of yet-fulfilled prophecy, the way some apparently have. I read a while back (don’t recall where) that Biblical yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy is best seen after it actually occurs. We’ll know it once it has happened.

    We are to be both faithful and in a state of readiness. We aren’t to jump ahead.

  35. debonnaire Mar 26th 2013

    And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [ Rev 11:3 ]

    the 2 witnesses are the Church and Israel. (God has no other witnesses on earth than these 2).
    And God will give His 2 witnesses , and they shall speak His word without fear. The Word is a sword and a fire. Christ crucified, and Christ coming to reign.
    That will not happen before the Tribulation.
    And the people of the world who are one with the Beast will hate them and kill them. Blessed are those who repent. Blessed are they that have their heart pierced. Blessed are they that mourn. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after God’s righteousness. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. God shall be seen over them (Juda and Ephraim) ; and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and will make thee as the sword of a mighty man (Zachariah 9:13_14)

  36. the 2 witnesses are the Church and Israel. (God has no other witnesses on earth than these 2).

    That’s one theory.

  37. I felt a strong caution many years ago regarding Rick Joyner as he was so strongly alluding to a special class of believers…..since I was saved in 1974 there have always been voices of those who spoke of things like “the eagle saints who soar above the earth vs. the saints who were like chickens scratching in the dirt” etc. etc. I do believe there is a remnant of people, who seek the Lord in our day, but feel very checked when I go beyond that. In that remnant of people, each of us must be faithful to our individual calling, whatever it may be, none better than any other…..ALL of us are called “to do justly, to love mercy and to walk “humbly” with our God.

  38. Andrew Mar 26th 2013

    If there is no preaching of “sin” then there can be no true ‘APOSTOLIC’ preaching. Those Early Church guys preached directly on the sins of their hearers all the time. Just like Jesus. And just like John the Baptist.

    This is a REVIVAL website.

    If you do not like “Revival” preaching of this kind, then I invite you to PLEASE LEAVE and go someplace else – instead of continually and never-endingly fighting against the whole purpose for this site.

    Thankyou kindly,

    Andrew Strom.

  39. John 9:40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”

    41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

    Jesus preached against sin and He’s our example to follow.

    GaryB

  40. Jda016 Mar 26th 2013

    Dear Val,

    I just wanted to confirm to you that check you had in your spirit regarding Rick Joyner. Several years ago I attended his school of ministry in South Carolina and after two months I had to leave because of the error that was being taught. I have a notebook full of the things that we were suppose to do, learn, and walk in and believe you me, it was completely akin to new age.

    I read some of his books early on, and I did find some inspiration from them, I really did, however I believe the error has begun to abound more and more and I was truly shocked at the deception I found.

    Blessings!

    Jonathan

  41. Jda016 Mar 26th 2013

    Dear Davo,

    Nice collection of Scriptures! It sure seems to me that sound preaching from God’s word involves preaching against sin.

  42. Antons Janis Mar 26th 2013

    Craig:
    You are right my question was rhetorical.
    As to the 2 witnesses, I am with you, when the time comes then people will know the fulfillment of the prophecy. It is interesting though that on the Mount of Transfiguration it was both Moses (representing the Law) and Elijah (representing the Prophets) that Jesus spoke with – causes food for thought that it could be a literal interpretation but to say it is categorically so, we cannot.
    Roger:
    Unfortunately not everyone is aware that they are sinners. We cannot presume people know. A New Age friend used to state categorically that she didn’t sin! There are many whose consciences have been seared and they are oblivious of their need. Such is the persuasive sway of erroneous teaching and deception found in many of the so called ‘religions’ and ‘spiritual disciplines’ abounding – even in Christendom. I have heard spiritual healers and witches state that they are not sinners, there is nothing wrong with them and they don’t need a Saviour. It wasn’t until the Holy Spirit convicted my friend of sin, righteousness and judgement that she saw the truth and confessed, repented and believed on the Lord and was saved. One aspect of the Holy Spirit’s ministry is just that, read John 16:7-11.
    The Gospel includes letting people know they are sinners and why Jesus had to die in their place as a perfect sacrifice before a holy and just God. He alone could pay that price because He was sinless – the sinless One for the sinful many. The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked – man can so easily be puffed up with pride and believe there is nothing wrong with him and how untrue that is. If we truly love our neighbour then we will tell them the whole Truth and not just the bits we like best.

  43. Roger (NZ) Mar 26th 2013

    Antons Janis, Andrew, and others,

    My apologies, I did not explain clearly – I hear what you are saying and agree.

    A part of my own introduction to Jesus as Messiah and Lord, was someone showing me scriptures which confirmed that I was a sinner, so yes, I was convicted of my own sin.

  44. Andrew Mar 26th 2013

    Thankyou, Roger.

    I appreciate you clarifying this.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  45. Lightning Storm Mar 26th 2013

    Hebrew Symbolism/ Prophetic language is used through out the scriptures, and very intensively in Revelation.

    Revelation 11 is referring BACKWARD to prophecies in the OT.

    There were many OT prophecies that had still not been fulfilled by the time John received Revelation.

    When Jesus said “It is Finished” He was not referring to the ENTIRE PLAN of the Kingdom. He was referring to the ONE PHASE of the ENTIRE KINGDOM PLAN.

    He was referring to the OPEN DOOR phase of the Kingdom Plan.
    Jesus on the cross is the OPEN DOOR INTO the Kingdom of God. We must NOT STOP at the cross, but FOLLOW JESUS PAST the cross to RESURRECTION.
    First, Resurrection of our spirits to new life.
    Second, Resurrection of our souls to new life.
    Third, Resurrection of our bodies to new life.

    The scriptures DO speak of a Hierarchy in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God.
    Jesus speaks of it continually in His Parables and the book of Revelation speaks of it.
    The Hierarchy corresponds with how many deaths, burials, and Resurrections a believer has been willing to SURRENDER to in His lifetime.

    Joshua is the Symbolic character of the RETURNING JESUS…..(Yeshua/Joshua)
    Rev 11 is referring to Joshua and Zerubbabel in Zech 4.
    as the 2 witnesses.
    So if Joshua symbolizes Jesus, then Jesus is ONE of the 2 witnesses…..AN OLIVE TREE.
    So who does Zerubbabel symbolize? Read ALL the scriptures about Zerubbabel and you will see.

    Hint: The Aramaic meaning for the name Zerubbabel is:
    “sown in Babylon”……referring to returning exiles from Babylon.

    Who is “sown in Babylon”?

  46. every single prophet had that ONE and selfsame spirit.
    THE HOLY ONE. NOW some had a double portion etc.
    The old prophets and christains have the same spirit.
    What is new
    is that Since Christ came this spirit is NOW upon ALL believers.
    FOR i will POUR out my spirit upon all flesh,
    and your men, women shall prophesy.
    ONE spirit, ONE LORD, ONE baptism.

  47. missbridgewater Mar 27th 2013

    Yes God is doing his own revival without the show, and without the miracles signs and wonders movement, we need to do no more then watch his word play out with those who are in the counterfeit revivals, watch the real signs in the heavens and earth according to his will and his word…..and yes I generally do paint the whole early pentecostal movement with the same brush, as a hundred years plus came in the shakers, rollers, dancers, and every other physical manifestation to the flesh. Pure discrace to the real HS. Careful study of all their extra writings shows they got something that lead them into error from its beginings.Its called a LUST for all things supernatural, demonic spirit. A wicked generation Jesus said seeks after these things, oops, that would be them old fashioned pentecostals and their tent revivals, raking in the dough. God gave them what they asked for, now you see the fruit of it, garbage. Jesus said he will manifest himself if we stay in his word, and the power is in the word and blood, not miracles, signs and wonders. In time they each ended up in error because of a spirit they took on and left what they had behind for the NEW. Israels restoration will have the next round of Gods power lead by the two witnesses, NOT any church or movement. From what I see in the timeline of all the minor prophets, looks like all of the false ones of today may be wiped out first.

  48. Shulte Mar 27th 2013

    “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks signs and wonders, and no sign shall be given unto it except for the sign of the prophet Jonah…”

    Jesus is referring to himself here, but what Jonah learned in the belly of the whale was deep repentance where he found out who God truly was. God is much more than the genie he is often portrayed as.

    Most of God’s prophets were sent to God’s people to give them a kick in the pants. It is interesting that Jonah was sent directly to the lost. Nineveh was a huge city, and every last one of them got saved.

  49. margaret Mar 27th 2013

    My understanding, as a repented Irish Catholic, of the Word is that there will be a spirit of anti chirist and THE antichrist and there will also be a spirit of Elijah and THE Elijah, one of the two witess to Israel in the three and a half year tribulation wha en the Anti -Christ will REIGN … and…. REIGN is the operative word…… if you who are of Protestant roots really think the Pope is the antichrist look to your (no) knowledge of history and wake up…European royalty is as evil wicked murderous as the Vatican and what about England and the Henry the eigth syndrome…O please WAKE up….there is SOO much more to the spirit of Elijah…. there is ELIJAH himself… who was not buried on this earth…he will come to prepare the way for the second coming of the Lion of Judah…..you just wait and see!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!

  50. Lightning Storm Mar 27th 2013

    LOL Schulte, so true so true.

  51. Lawrence Mauk Mar 27th 2013

    Is David Wilkson saying that the two witness In Revelation 11:1-13 Is the type of the church? For verse 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth Zechariah 4:1-14. I always heard that the two witness were Moses and Elijah or Enoch and Elijah or acouple of other people.I was listing to a preacher on tape about three years ago and he was saying It was a possibility speaking of the church. In verse 12 when the witness ascended up to heaven that’s when the rapture takes places.But I have two big queastion on that and that Is In verses 5 and 7. For If the two witness Is the church then according to verse 7 the Antichrist will kill all the true christians. Which I don’t think that will be the case will It?

  52. David Marsh Mar 27th 2013

    It is good to hear so many points of views.

    The subject is a ‘Last days – end time ‘company of Elijahs’ being spoken about by Mr Wilkerson.

    I for one, believe that this company will arise.

    The promise of the early AND the latter rains just before the end – speaks loudly that what happened with the early church that received just the early rains will be eclipsed by the end time church.

    Naturally, the exploits of Smith Wigglesworth were dismissed by thousands of Christians when Smith walked in the Spirit with God between 1908 and 1948. It will be no different when God pours out the last and final wave of His Holy Spirit.

    From the formation of the catholic church (away from the pattern of the biblical N.T. church), God instigated a Reformation in 1517 to restore some biblical truth.

    And from the Protestant reformation God instigated another reformation back to biblical truth on Easter 1960 when the Charismatic movement began.

    However, the last reformation will bring back the final & complete understanding of faith and the Prayer of faith, and how the apostles ‘walked in the Spirit with Jesus, and how the N.T. church really functioned.

    When the last reformation begins, then the end time church will begin to prepare herself. And when she is prepared, God will begin to pour out His early AND latter Holy Spirit rains for the final revival.

    God bless
    David Marsh.

    Anyone interested in looking at the research material revealing these necessary biblical understandings of the N.T. church – can email me for a free pdf copy.
    [email protected]

    Or, have a look at some sample pages first:
    http://theapostleshandbook.publishpath.com/sample-pages

  53. Yes there are many opinions but only one Truth

    Jesus said “When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
    But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
    The Spirit filled are witnesses and so is the Holy Ghost.tat is one theory i lean toward.
    Now read what was proclaimed by the catholic system on May 5th 1514:
    The representatives of the Roman church of Western Europe came together to hear a famous proclamation of triumph. The Council address was given by A. Pucci of Rome on May 5th 1514. He said, to the delegates gathered before him: “There is an end of resistance to Papal rule and religion. Nobody opposes any more.”
    now count forward 3 and one half years to October 31st 1517
    Guess! –
    Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis on the door of the Wittenburg church
    So currently there is an historical fact that does offer an explanation for the death of the two witnesses!
    As Craig would say one theory.
    Lets count 1260 years from AD 533 when Emperor Justinian, decreed the bishop of Rome as “Head of all Holy Churches, and of all Holy priests of God” to 1793, French Revolution. France the former supporter of the papacy turned and slaughtered priests (around 24,000) and around 40,000 church buildings were turned into stables. A mortal blow! The papacy lost it temporal power and will not regain it, now, today on every front it’s religious power is being challenged! – Ten years before the courts in Ireland a catholic stronghold, now in Us, Australia its morality has been held up to ridicule. not that those nations are any better!
    My wish is that Christians today would study the “HisStory” – both secular and sacred, marry the two, and not be caught up in the catholic ideas of Jesuit Ribera the counter reformationist with all his errors, hatched by the very system that has been the enemy of Jesus’ Church for centuries!
    Unlike Wilkinson i see no future “super saints ” before Jesus return. Future revival relies on the likes of us going into all the world.now! Rather than “pontificate” on what future may unfold.(sorry about the pun) lets get our testimony out there.today.
    I think Paul would embrace the internet as a great saving of wear and tear on Roman sandals
    Pr Michael

  54. Lightning Storm Mar 27th 2013

    Lawrence,

    Verse 4 tells us who the witnesses are. 2 Trees.
    Olive Trees. Look in the OT for the symbolism of the Tree, the Olive, the candlestick.

    You will find it in the Tabernacle pattern and the description of the Temple.

    We are to be the Light….Who is the Light in us? Who is the Oil in us?
    What kind of Oil was used in the Tabernacle, Temple, and the lampstands of the 10 Virgins?

    Remember that much of Revelation is symbolic language.

    Did Adam and Eve physically drop dead when they ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? NO
    It was SPIRITUAL DEATH that came to them immediately……physical death came as a RESULT of spiritual death….and it took its time coming to FULL FRUITION.

    Does verse 7 & 8 mean LITERAL physical death? or is it a metaphor?

    We use the words die and dead metaphorically all the time. What does it mean when a team “died” in the 2nd quarter? What does it mean when they’re are pretty much “dead” in the 4th quarter?

  55. Marilyn Crow Mar 27th 2013

    Let`s look further at Malachi`s prophecy. Some people have already written some good things – Antons Janis, Miss Bridgewater & margaret. All concerning the actual Elijah as the prophecy declares.

    This scripture is written to Israel & we can see it fulfilled in Revelation in the 2 witnesses. Now what is a witness? One who has seen or heard something. What does God want these 2 men to witness of? The Lord Jesus Christ, that He died, rose again & ascended to the Father. The same Jesus that was killed over 2000 years ago.

    CHRIST`S DEATH

    On Mt. Transfiguration, 2 men, Moses & Elijah were talking with Jesus. What were they talking about? Luke tells us that Jesus was telling them about the death which He was to achieve. These 2 men, Moses & Elijah saw Jesus as a man on earth & spoke concerning His death.

    `Behold, 2 MEN, ……Moses & Elijah…` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

    CHRIST`S RESURRECTION

    At the tomb there were angels, (Gk. aggelos – angel) but there were also 2 MEN, (Gk. aner, from anthropos, human being). These 2 men witnessed of Jesus` resurrection. (Luke 24: 4)

    CHRIST`S ASCENSION

    Then when Christ ascended to heaven there were 2 MEN, (aner – human beings) standing nearby. They told the disciples of what would happen. (Acts 1: 10)

    Thus God clearly shows that these 2 MEN, Moses & Elijah, had witnessed of Christ`s death, resurrection & ascension.

    God has both their bodies, (Moses – Jude 9 & Elijah taken up)
    & He will restore them for their final mission to `turn the hearts….` by conviction of sin & revealing the Lord Jesus Christ to Israel as their long awaited promised Messiah.

    What a witness! What a restoration!

  56. Val Pym Mar 27th 2013

    I agree with Wilkerson.
    Jesus said “Elijah truly is coming and WILL RESTORE ALL THINGS” The Spirit came upon John to prepare the way for Christs first coming, and the Spirit of Elijah will come upon the end time Church to prepare the way for His second Coming. When Jesus said this John was dead.
    Just as in Israel [the pattern nation] a generation arose which fulfilled their commission to take the Land and establish the kingdom; so the will be an end time ‘Joshus ‘ generation which will rise up and complete the Great Commission.” This is the Manchild Company of Revelation 12.
    The Holy Spirit is still leading into all truth and showing us things to come as Jesus said. Those who think they have already come into all truth will not receive fresh revelation.
    The Feast of Tabernacles has yet to be fulfilled in the Church. This is the Feast of fulness and completion.

  57. I believe the Lord has spoken to me through a Prophet regarding the Joshua Generation…

    I also believe the Lord Himself has spoken to me about what the Promised Land is that this Joshua Generation will enter into…

    The Promised Land is life in the Spirit…

    I believe that the Fullness of the Holy Spirit is what the Joshua Generation – which I believe to be the entire End Time Church left on earth in the final generation before Christ’s physical return to reign from Jerusalem (before meeting Him in the air before His physical return to the Mount of Olives) – will walk in…

    Both Jew, Israeli and Gentile believers in the Lord Jesus Christ will walk in this Fullness of the Holy Spirit – in unity – as the Holy Spirit is poured out upon all flesh…

    The Joshua Generation will be Filled with the Holy Spirit – Who will be given “without measure” so that “greater things than these will you do” as Jesus said…

    This will occur in a time of great physical calamities on earth…

    God will shake all things…

    But this Company – this Joshua Generation – will not be deterred by anything – they will witness in the Spirit and Power of Elijah – and will not love their lives unto death…

    There will be a testimony on earth of the way the Lord always intended things to be amongst those who believed in Him – practical demonstrations of both His Love and His Holiness in action…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  58. Foolhardy Fred Mar 27th 2013

    My only hope in writing is that some will read it, heed it, and come out of these Latter Rain
    revivals.
    There is no “new paradigm” as far as Christianity is concerned, just the same old narrow road that leads to eternal life in Christ. No immortality or streets of gold on this side of heaven. Just the truth. The
    Way, the Truth, and the Life – and that “old rugged cross”.
    It comes as no surprise that we are in the midst of a terrible apostasy in these last days as we have clearly been warned that it would come. It is still frightening that so many of God’s people today could fall for the same old lie that first deceived Eve so many thousands of years ago.
    “You shall be as gods.”
    The same old lie of Satan is the lie at the heart of the New Age Movement.
    Even sadder is the fact that it is the same lie that the Latter Rain “prophets” and “apostles” of “Joel’s Army” are putting forth today.
    You will become Christ – God on this earth.
    The heresy of Apotheosis.
    Thousands of Christians are swallowing it – hook, line, and sinker.
    The Church is trading her heavenly hope for an earthly delusion.
    Like those foolish virgins of the
    parable, their lamps have run out of oil. What they perceive to be oil, “the anointing of the Holy Spirit”, is instead a sensual counterfeit offered up by seducing spirits.
    This counterfeit anointing comes with a
    counterfeit gospel of a false triumphalism that will lead to a New Age “Kingdom” under Anti-Christ.
    They will accept Anti-Christ with open arms, perceiving him to be Christ, whom they mistakenly identify as the
    “rider on the white horse” of Revelation chapter six verse two.
    What is so desperately needed in the Church today is so desperately lacking – discernment.
    Discernment to tell the Spirit of Christ from the ecumenical spirit of Antichrist.
    To discern the true anointing
    from the false anointing, the true Christ from the Gnostic Anti-Christ of the Manifest Sons of God.
    If you are participating in any of these Latter Rain revivals or churches today I urge you to turn back to the Bible. Compare what you are hearing and seeing with what is recorded and portrayed in the scriptures
    “Test all things, hold fast to what is good.” Call the leadership into account for everything they say, or teach,
    or do that does not line up with the word of God. If they refuse to repent – leave. Flee from the place and
    don’t look back. “Remember Lot’s wife.”
    I know it can be hard to leave a church, especially if you have
    family and close personal friends there. But if they will not hear you – leave them behind.
    The Latter Rain prophets are right about one thing – doctrine divides. Truth separates the wheat from the chaff.
    In the early Church the Apostles kept the deceivers and false apostles out. They did this by publicly identifying the heretics and warning the sheep of their false doctrines.
    Because of the diligence of
    the true apostles of our Lord, the false apostles and their followers were forced to leave the Church.
    The Apostle John writes:
    “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many anti christs have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18,19 NKJV)
    Today we face just the opposite situation in that the false prophets and apostles are in the majority in many churches.
    When they gain inroads into a church it’s more likely that only a minority will reject their false doctrines, revelations, and counterfeit “anointing” and stand on the Bible, being forced to go out from among the apostate majority.
    Hold fast to the end for I am convinced that God is testing faithfulness rather than novelty in these last days.

  59. jackrabbit Mar 27th 2013

    One billion Catholics into the occult. An army of pastors into the occult leading another huge army of Christians into the occult.

    What if Elijah wasn’t into the occult? They are not going to like him.

  60. Serenity Mar 27th 2013

    I appreciate your comments Betty and Val Pym.

    What you say Val, seems Scriptural.

    Your experience Betty, sounds similar to mine.

    My experience is that I feel constrained by the Holy Spirit to speak on occasion to an individual who is a believer, about some specific matter.
    When I do, God will often bear witness that this is a true word.
    Often, what I felt in the Spirit proves to be true, later on in time.
    But too often, the person involved will not seek the Lord for confirmation, or does not wait long enough for Him to witness the truth to them.

    And so, the good purpose of God for this one and that one is not done.
    The kingdom of God does not advance through that person at that time, as God would have had it to.
    I feel the grief of the Holy Spirit at another opportunity lost.
    Sometimes I just know that a man being put forward for a pastoral position is not the man of the Lord’s choice.
    What to do ? These people are not contacts of mine.
    Then I hear that this man has been hired.
    Within a year or two, disaster. Spiritual barrenness, no growth, church split, broken hearts and relationships, a bad witness to outsiders, weak believers disillusioned.

    There HAS to be an outpouring of ‘rain’ in this time of the latter rain – on the local and the international scene. God’s honour demands it : just as in the days of Elijah and John the Baptizer.
    We are told to, “Ask ye of Yehovah rain in the time of the latter rain, of Yehovah that makes lightnings ; and He will give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.” (Zechariah 10 : 1)

    I, for one, am praying and believing for this outpouring, and He said, ”Ask and ye shall receive”. End of story!

  61. Marilyn, that is exactly how i understand it, about the two witnesses (Moses and Elijah) They will witness (along with the 144k) to the Nation Israel (and also the world, emphises on Israel) for the first 3 1/2 years of the seven year tribulation.

    Matt 24:14 And THIS GOSPEL of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; “and then” shall the end come. (This will be done by the 2 witnesses and the 144k)

    What gospel?

    The gospel of the kingdom – what is that?

    It is the gospel of the coming kingdom, the kingdom that Christ WILL set up THIS TIME, at His 2nd coming to earth (millenium reign)

    This “gospel of the kingdom” was first preached by John the Bapist (repent for the kingdom of God is at hand) and then by Jesus at His first coming to earth. This is so confused today with Pauls gospel (the gospel of grace) The two are not the same, at all.

    Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

    Matt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    The “gospel of the kingdom” was ONLY to the house of Israel!!!

    Rom 1:16 “b” to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Greek.

    Pauls “gospel of grace (the mystery)” has/is currently on offer to the WHOLE world today (Jew and Gentile alike) but it is about to soon close with the rapture of the Church. Then the “gospel of the kingdom” is going to be reoffered to Israel and preached throughout the world and we know, as it is written in the Word, that Israel will recognise their Messiah this time and all Israel will be saved (Rom 11:26) and then the millenium kingdom will be set up.

    The “gospel of the kingdom” and the “gospel of grace” are NOT the same.

    Just as Israel and the Church are NOT the same.

    We need to rightly divide (2Tim 2:15)

    Blessings.

  62. Foolhardy Fred Mar 27th 2013

    The Bible clearly teaches that false religion, false revivals and the suppression of biblical teaching and admonition warning of the Great Apostasy, deception and delusion of the last days are an abomination to the One True God.

    False unity with the Roman Catholic church may simply be despatched by humble reference to the First Commandment,

    ” Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me!”

    Consider this in view of their teaching on Mary as “co redemptrix” with Christ among the multitude of other false and unbiblical teachings and practices they espouse.

    What point is there promoting these false Latter Rain Revivals when God has clearly shown that nothing but His judgement (see the biblical account of Noahs’ Ark for example) awaits the perpetrators of the Great Apostasy so clearly warned of in the Bible which committed Bible believing Christians are witnessing to their absolute horror and disgust everywhere.

    Read the excerpt from The Legacy of the Latter Rain by Charles Graves that I posted above VERY CAREFULLY. The crucial issue actually comes down to the person of our one and only means of salvation Jesus Christ Himself.

    What God will do to those who lead the scriptually ignorant and spiritually naive to hell falsely believing they are saved will be absolutely horrific. False teachers, false prophets, ravenous wolves and false Christs are all destined for the lowest rung of hell at the coming judgement of God.

    What horror for those deceived individuals who find themselves in hell falsely believing they were saved because of the deception of these people.

    Be very careful what you promote and support.

  63. Antons Janis Mar 27th 2013

    Yes Foolhardy Fred I agree with what you have written. It is frightening when one looks at the church scene these days. Apostacy gaining ground at a very fast rate, everything needs to be checked up against the plumb-line of scripture. We need to be like the Bereans who were more noble than the Thessalonians because they checked out what Paul was saying with the Word of God. We need to compare scripture with scripture and allow the Spirit of Truth to teach us and lead into all truth. We deviate at our peril because even the elect can be deceived.
    You are right on the button when you say the crucial issue is all about who Jesus Christ is. Today so many are preaching another gospel, another Jesus and another spirit. The Emerging Church in particular comes to mind.
    Many are preaching to tickle ears and are held in high esteem because they do so. BUT actually the Lord says that He sends the delusion so that they will believe what is false because the people do not receive a love of the Truth. What an indictment on the Church today – it will go from bad to worse with the scene being set for the acceptance of Anti-Christ.
    Truly the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life and there are few that find it.
    Didn’t Jesus ask, ‘When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on the earth?’ This does not sound like the huge revivals that are being prophesied and expounded by the Latter Rain/New Apostolic Reformation teachings. However there may be pockets of revival among God’s people for the Lord in His goodness does still graciously visit His people.
    The scriptures speak of a turning around of Israel to look upon Him whom they pierced and to mourn as for an only son. Revival on a large scale bringing many to the knowledge of Messiah and repentance, so all Israel will be saved. But among the Gentiles? Only the Lord truly knows.
    Our part is to preach the word, be constant in season and out, to be ready to give an answer to any who would ask of the hope we have within us – which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord.
    I have had to leave churches because of erroneous doctrines – Purpose Driven Life, Emergent teaching etc and it is hard because the Highway of Holiness becomes narrower and steeper. It is lonely but His Word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path, praise to His wonderful name!
    We may loose all but we win Christ!

  64. Marilyn Crow Mar 27th 2013

    It did my heart good to read of all the truth coming forth.

    Foolhardy Fred, I totally agree. But you seem more like a `braveheart,` than a `foolhardy,` – a fool for Christ perhaps.

    And Ken1. Yes how wonderful to find another believer in the truth of the `good news,` of the Davidic kingdom to Israel, & the `good news`, for the Body of Christ. Different groups, different purposes.

    Antons Janis. -Yes, all for Christ. Here is an old hymn.

    `If I gained the world & not the Saviour,
    Would my gain be worth the life long strife.
    Are all earthly pleasures worth comparing,
    For a moment with a Christ filled life.`

    We are all one in Him. God bless, Marilyn.

  65. Antons Janis,
    I like what you said, “pockets of revival”. Even though I agree with Foolhardy Fred that the best word to describe modern day “revivals” is apostasy, and I can agree with some of the warnings of miss bridgewater, having myself been involved in the Pentecostal movement since 2004, and having seen a lot of leaven in the bread (even though the two churches I’ve been a member of weren’t particularly charismatic, thank God!), I still believe in a True and Faithful God who has promises for the remnant.

    I believe God’s priority is changing individual HEARTS, and, yes, through surrendered lives, change other lives by bringing them to salvation and discipling. We have seen in history how an anointed believer changed cities and even nations. Wilberforce comes to mind, a politician who fought against human slavery until it was abolished. Will we see that again? It seems too late an hour for that. And will we see massive revivals in our cities? Maybe not.

    But GOD hasn’t changed. He promises that if we turn back from our idols and seek HIM, He will restore us individually and use us as precious vessels. If only we’ll humble ourselves, deny our self-will, surrender all to Him, He’ll use you and me for higher purpose. God will use broken, contrite, humble and meek vessels to do great things (great in His sight). The smaller we get, the bigger He’ll get in us, and the more He can use us for His glory.

    Listen, as a “seeker” since birth, I was a very dumb sheep. I fell into all kinds of error and idolatry. I was a fanatical Catholic for 21 years. I got involved in new age. God brought me out of both. I was a Pentecostal for 2 years. God showed me the lies in this belief system. And He told me, “You have believed the lies, but you didn’t LOVE the lies. You loved me, though imperfectly, and you were sincerely wrong and acted out of ignorance. I allowed the deception in you because I wanted you to know how these beliefs grieve me and hurt people, so that you’d one day be able to help those who are deceived.”

    I believe there are some (many?) Nathanaels out there, who are really seeking the Truth, under a fig tree praying for God to reveal Himself to them. I’m hoping God will send me to the Nathanaels within my reach, so that by preaching the Cross, AND by preaching self-denial and death to the flesh AND TRUST IN WHAT JESUS HAS DONE AND IS FOR US, I will, well, not really me, but the Holy Spirit through me, reconcile them to the Eternal (AND ONLY!) God.

    Do I expect to have for myself a world-famous ministry? Only if that’s God’s will for me! I certainly do want to be a positive, life-giving, Spirit-filled influence in the few or many people I can reach with a Word. Do I have the “spirit of Elijah”? Well, I have the Holy Spirit, and He certainly does use me to tell people to get back to the Father!

  66. Antons Janis Mar 27th 2013

    Hallelujah my beloved brethren. Our God reigns on high and He will work His purposes out His wonders to perform. We may not all agree on certain points but as long as our hearts are as Paul’s when he stated, ‘Oh that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and being conformed to Him in the fellowship of His sufferings.’
    In eternity such differences will fade into insignificance at the wonder of gazing upon His incredible beauty.
    It is Jesus we preach and Him crucified. Hallelujah! Come Lord Jesus, come.

  67. debonnaire Mar 27th 2013

    Someone wrote : “that is exactly how i understand it, about the two witnesses (Moses and Elijah)”

    ???

    … Moses is dead !

    Pre-Trib Literalism Dispensationnalism doctrine has a God who is really poor , for He has only 2 witnesses , and one of the 2 is dead.
    It will also say there is also the 144000. But if the Pre-Trib false teachers who have made lots of money with this doctrine , are coherent (and honest) with their litteralism , these 144000 can not be witnesses then , for when it is written God’s two witnesses , they will say two individuals.
    Teachings of men that are still rampant among the remnant look more and more strange. Come out of this Babylonish nonsense.

    But what does the Bible really says about God’s witnesses ? And who can count them ?

    You are my WITNESSES,” declares the LORD,
    “and my servant whom I have chosen, [Isaiah 43:10]

    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my WITNESSES in Jerusalem [Acts 1:8]

    And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony [WITNESSES] of Jesus [Apoc 12;17]

    And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs [WITNESSES] of Jesus. And when I saw her, I wondered with a great wonder. [Apoc 17:6]

  68. Elijah at one point despaired and complained that he was alone, the only true prophet alive in a very apostate nation. And yet God told him there were 7,000 who hadn’t knelt before Baal.
    How often do we feel like the ONLY ONES who see the apostasy and cry out to God, is there ANYONE seeking Truth anymore?
    What do we find here? Not one, but MANY of us trying to make sense of this. Why do we come to a revival website? Because deep down, at least some of us want God to do something! Some may come only in self-righteousness to fight for their interpretation. But there are some of us who are really hoping in God.
    Brothers, sisters, there may be error… lots of error maybe. But as I said in my previous comment, there was a lot of error (indeed, heresy!) in my life, and God opened my eyes to the Truth.
    Do we believe Yeshua/Jesus is the ONLY truth that leads to eternal life? Do we trust Him with our lives? Do we pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal more of God’s eternal truths to us?
    What did Messiah say? Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.
    Keep asking! Keep seeking! Keep knocking! If your heart’s desire is for God to be the King of your life, and to have Christ rise in you and your own little self decrease, YOU’LL GET THE DESIRE OF YOUR HEARTS! It’s God’s promise, not Carina’s prophecy.

  69. Marilyn 🙂

  70. Andrew Mar 27th 2013

    Some are equating Wilkerson’s word here with the modern apostasies which he actively spoke AGAINST. You need to realize that Wilkerson was an old-time Pentecostal, and the type of prophecy that this represents was around long BEFORE any “Latter Rain” movement. Go and read AZUSA STREET and you will see that they all believed a last great move of God would occur.

    But is that possible in the midst of great apostasy? Yes! – It is.

    This is not the “Elijah List”, people!!

    -Andrew Strom.

  71. Andrew Mar 27th 2013

    Yet again, the COMMENTS on this blog become the most discouraging thing on the planet.

  72. Foolhardy Fred Mar 27th 2013

    Truth MUST prevail!

  73. Foolhardy Fred Mar 27th 2013

    We all want God to do something BUT it MUST be HIM and it MUST be HIS way.

    Conspiracy will never produce a genuinely Godly outcome.

  74. debbonaire,

    Please don’t think I’m singling you out here; but, I do need to mention this. There is Scripture that casts some doubt on just where Moses’ body is – namely Jude 9:

    9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

    But, in any case, there doesn’t need to two literal witnesses (see my first comment above, the second one here for another view). The events detailed in Rev 11 do illustrate things done by both Moses and Elijah, but this doesn’t mean this will actually be these two literally, physically returning. There are many different theories on just who/what the two witnesses represent. I would caution against discount any of these or adhering tightly to any one.

    And, for the record, I’m not pre-trib, as I lean towards mid-trib yet have no trouble with post-trib.

  75. Sorry, the above should be:

    …do SEEM TO illustrate things done by both Moses and Elijah

  76. Truthseeker Mar 27th 2013

    As a member of the Body of Christ I can only be obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ who is my Redeemer and Saviour. I wish to follow Him and no other.
    But what has and remains apparent, there are many within the christian church who follow not Christ but other men and women folk who are called Bishop this, Apostle that, Prophet who, and other conspicuous titles to secure their places in christendom. Their appearances of being well groomed showing off expensive suits, shoes, rolax watches, and having the best of mobile phones is a must to be recognised, and of course, when speaking as invited guests at christian conferences and conventions, they have the best of everything when booked in at hotels and are fed well to keep their strength up, not to mention plugging their latest books, cds, and dvds to get attention.
    The Lord Jesus did not have a gate entrance fee for people to hear the sermon on the mount. He did not charge people to come and hear him in the temple. He did not have an offering after He fed thousands of people.
    The Apostles at the Day of Pentecost did not preach any prosperity teaching to enhance and secure the finances from the people in attendance. And neither did they have to conjure up the Holy Spirit by singing choruses over and over again to get people in the mood.
    What happened with the Lord Jesus is recorded in the Bible. What happened with the Apostles is written in the Word of God. What the Lord Jesus said has or will be fulfilled. What was shared by the Apostles came from the Spirit of God and from no other source.
    We, as Believers, have been instructed to carry out His Commission. If we do not, how can we be called His disciples? Do we reach out to the lost? Do we share our Faith? Are we really spirit filled born again christians?
    If not, why not, and please, please, no more excuses.
    Are you a servant of the King – or do you play as being religious?
    Would you prefer to be a spectator or a partaker in Christ when it comes down to the nitty gritty of living out your life in Him?
    What did John the Baptist preach as recorded in Matthew 3 verse 11? He said… I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
    Almighty God chose Elijah to take God’s message to the rulers and their subjects of Israel, and to represent God in Israel. In order to fulfill this commission, Elijah had to know and practice the plan of God for his life. The world system’s viewpoint and practice would not have helped him to do God’s will – in fact, it was precisely this habit of relying upon the world’s viewpoint and practice by Israel’s kings and citizens which Elijah was commissioned to preach against.
    Elijah believed the Lord. He had the courage to rest, to act, to speak at the appropriate times. He was involved in risk-taking prayer. He spoke out against spiritual apostasy, including its effects upon the nation and people. He tended to overestimate his own importance at times, which resulted in worry, confusion, disillusionment, self-pity, and defeat. He prepared for the future. He remained faithful to Almighty God, even when enemies of God went out their way to kill him.
    There are many who mock the Lord God Almighty. There are those within the christian church who preach another gospel and endulge themselves in signs and wonders which do not come from the Spirit of God.
    Now the question I ask those reading Andrew’s topic – where do you stand in Christ?
    Don’t rely on other people to do the job which Christ has instructed you to do…
    Will you proclaim the Gospel message and Christ crucified?
    Are you willing to be persecuted for Him you do follow?
    Will you speak out for righteousness?
    Will you stand up by following the Lord Jesus?
    There has been a talk of being a company of Elijahs’ and John the Baptists who will speak up and be counted in the Last Days.
    Are you one of them or prefer to hide behind four walls known as church buildings.
    There are so called christian leaders in the 21st century who are claiming to be this and that.
    This is what Morris Cerullo says about himself – “You’re not looking at Morris Cerullo — you’re looking at God. You’re looking at Jesus.”
    He also boasts is that he is fulfilling the role of the End-Time Elijah. He astutely avoids saying it overtly, of course. It is subtle, just as Satan was in the Garden to Eve. By founding the “Elijah Institute”, and claiming to raise up thousands of Elishas, the inference is deliberately unavoidable.
    In the past he has called himself “God’s prophet”, asserted his pre-eminence on the stage of international evangelism, and gathered a coterie of sycophantic ministers around him who are willing to embellish his standing in exchange for a convenient ‘leg-up’ with their own ministries.
    Benny Hinn, Reinhard Bonnke, Kenneth Copeland, Rod Parsley, Mike Murdoch, Steve Munsey, to name but a few, have embraced Morris Cerullo on stage and he done likewise with them. Word of Faith leaders control most of the christian tv stations to build their ministries and mega churches.
    Cerullo has a personal ministry mansion and two-storey home is over 12,000 sq ft. It is behind two secured gates in the richest neighborhood in America and has been estimated to be worth millions. He travels around in his own private jet and employs security guards for protection.
    Stay clear of these false prophets and teachers with their man made titles. Warn people about them because they have a stranglehold on the modern christian church and charismania. They will never resemble anything like Elijah and John the Baptist. For their luxurious lifestyles give the game away and how they manipulate christianity as a business venture.
    There will be a time when web sites like brother Andrew will be removed. The Body of Christ will face imprisonment for following the Lord Jesus which has already begun in the continents of Asia, Africa, and in Muslim countries. Your telephones will be monitored and so will be with your conversations. Your e-mails, texts, what you say on facebook and twitter will be closley looked at.
    Do we as Believers return to writing to one another again on paper and have fellowship in our own homes? For this appears to be so, and go out preaching the Good News as the disciples did which in the 21st century appears to have been forgotten.
    May you become like Him who is coming soon.
    The Lord bless you all!

  77. The enemy always tries to come in with the false (to twist the truth) either before or during any true work of the Lord…

    If we look at the false (coming in in advance of the true) and conclude that there is no true (coming) then the devil has accomplished his desire…

    If we look at the false whilst in the midst of true and conclude that the true which we know we are in is no longer true then again the devil has accomplished his desire…

    We must hold on to the true which we know to be true – no matter what others may be doing…

    We are called to walk by faith and not by sight…

    Hold on to what you know the Lord has revealed to you and don’t let it go…

    Despair and discouragement are not from the Lord…

    Confusion is not from the Lord…

    Hopelessness is not from the Lord…

    Apathy is not from the Lord…

    Living under the paralysing fear of being deceived is not from the Lord…

    There is a true work of the Lord which is being revealed in the earth…

    And this true work will grow until the entire Church knows it…

    Then there will be no debate only walking in the Fullness which He bought for us on the cross…

    It is Finished…

    He will achieve what He died to achieve…

    Let the Blood cover us all…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  78. Averyl Mar 27th 2013

    Amen, Debonnaire! Rev.11:13 is during the Great Tribulation, not before.

    Anton Janis, Margaret, Kent!, Foolhardy Fred, – AMEN!!!

  79. Andrew Mar 27th 2013

    Well said, Andrew J.

  80. David Marsh Mar 27th 2013

    “The restoration of all things”.
    Just what does God want to restore us to?

    1 Corinthians 11:1
    Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

    Shall we rebuke Paul for his outlandish statement of walking in the Spirit and following God’s instructions with signs and wonders. – as he imitated our Lord Jesus Christ?

    And has God ever brought about a revival without the Power of His Holy Spirit?

    To those who will reject the Holy Spirit because of the ignorance practiced in the later stages of the Charismatic movement – you need to have a closer look at what type of walk with God Jesus and Paul are calling us all to.

    Smith Wigglesworth was brought lower than any of us can imagine before he successfully walked with our Lord.

    Dont be fooled by the self centered money con artists that have promoted themselves for fame and fortune. They have their reward, and goodness knows what their eternal reward will be.

    Discernment, yes that is the issue here.

    God bless
    David Marsh.

  81. Andrew Mar 27th 2013

    Good points, David and Andrew J.

    Exellent

    -Andrew

  82. The world needs the ‘heart of the fathers to turn to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers’.

  83. Something that is easily overlooked yet i believe is vitally important for the church to flourish

    “Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business”
    (Looking after tables at the communal dinner)
    Obviously not worldly wisdom
    Nor from the “school of hospitality”
    Not the best cooks?
    They presented them to the disciples, prayed and laid hands on them .- to be waiters.
    The result was further revival as these zealous youngsters, Steven and Philip in particular, went about their duties.
    Yet often I have seen men chosen for their business acumen, popularity, or standing with people or other obvious, outstanding natural abilities!
    Yet the only requirement mentioned for these seven, other than being filled with the Holy Ghost, was their honesty, plus their wisdom in Christ.!
    Do we have such young men ? If not why not? They are the future of the church! Do we choose those with natural ability over and above the requirements of the Lord? Is that part of the problem?
    Pr Michael

  84. Marilyn Crow Mar 27th 2013

    We are looking at Malachi 4: 5 – 6. God`s word to the children of Israel. The context is `before the coming of the great & dreadful day of the Lord;…`

    The Old Testament prophets spoke of this day calling it, `The Day of the Lord,` `God`s Wrath,` `The time of Jacob`s Trouble.`

    Some people get this confused with the time when the Body of Christ will be gathered together & caught away. So I though I`d write some comparisons & hope it helps.

    THE GATHERING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST.

    The Lord Jesus comes to the `CLOUDS.` (1 Thess. 4: 17)
    He brings those `ASLEEP in Christ.` (1 Thess. 4: 14)
    He comes for the BODY OF CHRIST. ((1 Thess. 4: 17)
    He comes BEFORE the tribulation.
    `Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come` (1 Thess 1:10) `you brethren are NOT in darkness, that the Day (of the Lord) should over take you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)
    `I (Jesus) will keep you FROM the hour which is about to come upon the whole world to test those who dwell upon the earth.` (Rev. 3: 10)

    THE 2nd COMING OF CHRIST FOR ISRAEL

    The Lord Jesus comes to the EARTH, Mt of Olives. (Zech. 14: 4)
    He brings His ANGELIC ARMY. (Matt. 16: 27)
    He comes to bring deliverance to ISRAEL & judgement upon the nations. (Joel 3: 1 & 2, 12)
    EVERY EYE shall see Him. (Zech. 12: 10)
    It will be AFTER the tribulation. (Joel 2: 30 – 32)

    Hope that helps some people. Marilyn.
    Thanks for the smiley Ken1.

  85. David Marsh Mar 27th 2013

    ** Good point Pr Michael **

    1 Corinthians 12:11
    But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

    1 Corinthians 12:18
    But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.

    2 Corinthians 13:3
    since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.

    The church has lost the understanding that the Holy spirit of Jesus is the acting Head of the church.
    And the church has lost the skills and understanding of how to Scripturally hear the Holy Spirit’s instructions as Paul explains his role under God’s authority in 2 Cor. 13:3.

    We have lost our way when men elect themselves into seminary schools and then apply for a commercial agreement position to be in charge of God’s flock.

    The early church members asked God who should be appointed to carry out certain tasks. The Holy Spirit chose who would operate in certain gifts, and when they would do this.
    Unfortunately, the headship of Christ by His Spirit has all but been abandoned. But God is calling us back to the Scriptural ways of the early N.T. ekklesia again.

    God bless

    David Marsh

  86. watchful Mar 27th 2013

    There are many legitimate things in the bible that instead of watching, praying and waiting on the LORD to perform His own word, some groups give birth to an Ishmael…they try to make these things hurry up &happen by their own strength. Unfortunately truth becomes discredited in the process and if someone happens to mention certain bible verses/words that these groups emphasize, people can easily jump to the wrong conclusions.

    I believe we are given an idea as to what end-time revival looks like in the parable of the banquet….those who were invited refused to come, and so the king sent out his servants to the highways and byways to invite the crippled, poor and lame…….Matthew 22, Luke 14

  87. David Marsh Mar 28th 2013

    My dear watchful,
    I dont remember telling God what He is going to do. If I have given that impression I sincerely apologise.
    The elijah company or Gideon’s army is only a generic name for what God is going to do with His end time church. Those who believe that this is in God’s plans have come to the conclusion from years of biblical research, from trusted sources of shared revelation ( and I would include Smith Wigglesworth in this category) and from what God has revealed and spoken to each of us personally – over the last 20 years.

    I would rather be ready too early than dismiss God and find my self unprepared – when He begins to move.

    God bless
    David Marsh.

  88. Andrew Mar 28th 2013

    David – I do not feel Watchful is disagreeing in any way.

    What Watchful said was insightful and worth a 2nd read

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  89. I do not believe Malachi 4 is a “stand alone” chapter
    Why do we go to so much effort to foretell the future
    and thus wrestle with scripture?
    Remember the Jews had the coming of Messiah set in concrete and rejected Jesus because he did not fit in their preconceived concrete mould
    The Church in Constantine’s time was wrong when it rejoiced because the Millennium had come, rather it was the opposite – a descent into apostasy!
    Do not make the same mistake today!
    The lesson from the past is, “today if we hear His voice”, tomorrow is taken care of, is it not, or have we no trust,,. are we of less value than the sparrows?
    Today .there is much division Preter-ism, Historicism, Future-ism, and a myriad other private-isms, dreams, visions, we can all be very vocal in promoting our isms and then the church as presented to the world does not speak with one voice!
    Private interpretations should be kept private.
    Content out of context is pretext!
    Malachi should be a wake up call us .for today, tomorrow is too late!
    Psalm 1 The tree must have its its roots at the river or wither away when adversity – tribulation – comes.

    I f we Spirit filled do not allow the Lord to purge and cleanse us, (the Ministry and Spirit of Elijah at work in us – read about the alter and the fire from heaven – a type of Pentecost a repentance, water baptism, Holy Ghost and fire ministry, are we missing the point?) then what hope have we? the Elijah ministry has been with us for two thousand years! Look around the world, look at the church. No wonder then that Jesus asked, when He comes will he find faith on the earth!
    Malachi ends with a threatened curse.if a required condition is not met.
    Te NT tells us how we can personally meet that condition.
    Revelation ends with that condition met – a blessing – if we do not diminish or embellish His Word.!
    Friends
    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all
    Pr Michael

  90. Thanks Watchfull, i believed the wedding garments were identical, white linen, and were available at the door as one entered, is that correct? I was told this years ago it made sense then, but i have never researched it till today.
    here is one i found.
    “The Wedding Feast
    The doors were shut and the feast began …… All guests were given special garments, …………. The ruler of the feast was responsible for all preparations and benedictions. ”

    http://www.bible-history.com/biblestudy/marriage.html

    If this is true it has great significance on why Jesus used this analogy and why the interloper was cast out.
    Pr Michael

  91. watchful Mar 28th 2013

    I wasn’t responding to any of your comments David….just putting a couple of thoughts into the pot here.

    But since you mention it, if we are watching and waiting, obeying Him in our own life, our heavenly Father will make sure we don’t miss His will. Of course there is nothing at all wrong with searching the scriptures and to be preparing ourselves…..the only problem I see is when we try to make something happen ourselves like with Abraham and Sarah’s mistake. It is God’s word and we can depend on it that He will perform it. I have found too that He doesn’t usually do things in quite the same manner our human imaginations might picture it. This was one reason the well-studied Pharisees missed their Messiah, because He didn’t fit their imaginitive picture of what the Messiah would be like.

    He is all the time confounding the wisdom of the wise…as soon as I get a fixed and dogmatic idea of what He will do, He surprises me by doing it differently almost as if to show I can never put Him in a box of my own making. There is something in that if we think we know we don’t yet know as we ought….so I’m learning to be leery of sort of setting things in cement in my mind so to speak! The things of the Spirit can’t be set in cement….He is like the wind and blows where He wills…who has ever caught the wind and put it in a box? 🙂 I guess that’s why He is our Shepherd and we are not our own shepherds, and we are learning to trust Him more and more.

  92. some wait and wait for this end time move……….
    Never understanding…………….WE ARE THIS MOVE.
    WIN SOULS NOW………………
    STOP waiting and GO out NOW.
    Keep waiting and that is all one will ever do……..
    and all the while………….Souls do perish…………..
    THe only BIG end time move i hear of from SCRIPTURES
    is called the FALLING AWAY and STRONG delusoin
    NEITHER of which i wish to be part of……….
    DO with what YOU KNOW…………….
    DO souls need saving NOW…………
    And if we want to rightly divide scripture
    the pouring out of the HOLY SPIRIT upon men , women.
    IT STARTED at PENTECOST………….
    READ the bible. The HARVEST is RIPE now
    but the labourers be few…….
    pray ye therfore that the LORD send laboureres out into the harvest.
    One day…………..in a moment………..a blinke
    a twinkling of an eye……………..AND THATS IT……..
    THE LORD shall come.
    Be watching……………….what i say……………i say to all
    BE WATCHING………………..for no man knows this day or hour.
    NOR the end of even his own life. TOMORROW is NOT gauranteed. One could die tonight…………..then what
    will all this have amounted too………………
    THE ONLY day GAURANTEED…………………is the LORDS day
    and whether i wake or am already alseep…….
    i want to be FOUND as i would want to be found.
    BE RICH towards THAT DAY………………..so look ye to the ONLY guaranteed day……………HIS DAY
    and be RICH towards that……………..all affections above
    all treasures above……………..
    HIS WILL . amen.

  93. David Marsh Mar 28th 2013

    Dear Watchful,
    Yes,that is an excellent summation of how God often moves contrary to our expectations. We do need to keep our eyes and ears open to Him.
    I see what you are saying, please forgive me. I misinterpreted your post.

    God bless you

    David Marsh.

  94. Marilyn Crow Mar 28th 2013

    Good word Randall – `we are this endtime move.`
    & Watchful – about people wanting to make something happen.

    Pr. Michael brought up the good point of not diminishing or embellishing God`s word. This I would like to comment on.

    With this article `The Watchmen on the walls,` we have a good example of 2 great errors that are causing believers to be `tossed to & fro,` by every kind of doctrine.

    1. Error of Adding to or Taking away.

    God`s word to Israel through Malachi does not mention a last – day Elijah company of believers,` as the article says. Has God left a dotted line where we can insert what we like – perhaps a `last – day Elijah family,` or a `last – day Elijah Nation.` Now I am going to extremes to show how ridiculous it is to `ADD,` to God`s word.

    Actually the Apostle Peter says of those that were twisting Paul`s writing, that they `are unlearned & unstable` because they wrest (pervert),`Paul`s writings, & `also other scriptures to their own destruction.`(2 Peter 3: 16)

    Peter then warns his readers that they can `fall from your own steadfastness.` (v. 17)

    2. Error of US as the centre of God`s word.

    This is also prevelant & even ingrained into many people`s thinking. When they read God`s word they interpret it in relation to themselves. Is it all about us? Are we the centre of God`s word?

    We can learn from God`s word but it is not all about us. The Lord Jesus Christ is the centre of God`s word & we can read His purposes for the 3 groups.

    To put ourselves in the Malachi prophecy shows that we are so US focussed. God has other groups that He has been working with long before the Body of Christ. God has not cast these others aside. We can read of their mistakes & trials, but to twist God`s word so that it is about US is a perversion of the truth.

    No where in the Old Testament does it reveal the Body of Christ. Why? Because it was a revelation given to the Apostle Paul. He wrote of how Christ is building & maturing it. (Eph. 3: 3 – 5)

    This habit, practice of so called spiritualising scripture is not spiritual as it is not the truth.

    Yes the Body of Christ has prophets, which are even now continuing to equip the believers to do the work of reconciliation-`turning the hearts….` This is going on all over the world whether we see it or not.

    Let us then continue to praise & honour our Head, the Lord Jesus Christ as He helps us `speak the truth in love,` building us together in Him.

  95. David Wilkerson is a blessing from the Lord.

    Quote: Yet again, the COMMENTS on this blog become the most discouraging thing on the planet. quote

    🙂

    I think if anything it reveals the mess “men” have made of the body of Christ. It will probably get worse in the church world before it gets any better.

    God has a people who have not bowed the knee to the religious systems of men with all their doctrines of confusion.

    1 Kings 19:10-12

    10 So he said, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life.”

    11 Then He said, “Go out, and stand on the mountain before the Lord.” And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

    GaryB

  96. Jda016 Mar 28th 2013

    No Christian is greater than another in terms of how much God loves them, but God DOES use people more greatly than other Christians depending on their availability and submission to God. It is not about elitism, it is just the opposite in fact. It is about how submitted to God people are willing to be.

    Wilkerson isn’t talking about some super class of Christians, he is simply talking about Christians who have emptied their lives of “stuff” and sin. They are the empty vessels that will be filled with God’s glory when it falls.

    Yes, we have the Holy Spirit now, and yes we can walk in His power, However I do believe God operates in ‘seasons’ or at specific times where he pours out a greater measure of Himself because the time is short and there is a greater need of His power. This is what I believe Wilkerson is referring to.

    It is simple truth, there will be Christians walking in greater giftings and Holy Spirit power than other Christians. Again this doesn’t mean they are better, they are just simply more submitted and willing.

  97. Jda016 Mar 28th 2013

    I would like to amend my last saying. In no way do I mean that Christians who don’t walk in the gifts of healing or prophecy are any less submitted to God than those who do.

    There will be extremely submitted Christians who may never walk in those giftings. It just simply means God has called them to something different. The ear does not do as the eye, nor the hand do as the foot.

    In other words, the Christian raising the dead or healing the sick is not greater than the Christian who cares for the poor and attends to the ill.

  98. Foolhardy Fred Mar 28th 2013

    In Wandering Stars, Keith Gibson underscores the critical necessity of hermeneutics for every believer. “Hermeneutics has been described as the art and science of biblical interpretation. In handling the Bible properly, one should consider such things as context, history, grammar, and the genre of the literature among other things. The goal of hermeneutics is to understand the passage according to the original intent of the author, as inspired by the Holy Spirit.” Simply stated, “The Bible should be studied in its historical and grammatical context and with the normal understanding of the words used. The intent is to discover the meaning intended by the author of the particular passage….It is essentially a belief that God meant the Bible to be understood by the normal believer within the community of faith. This is sometimes referred to as the ‘plain sense’ principle of interpretation” (p. 70).

    Simplifying it further, it involves not much more than what happens when two people have a normal conversation. Both are aware of the context of what they are communicating, know enough grammar to converse in sentences, and understand the meaning of the words used. We all do this every day, so it’s mystifying that most misunderstandings of Scripture stem from not following the simple rules of hermeneutics.

    Following such “plain sense” rules would eliminate the “prophetic hermeneutic” (i.e., believing what a dynamic preacher says just because he claims to be a prophet) that has caught many believers in the web of blindly following those who claim to be speaking for God. Gibson has seen the damage this has done to many believers’ trust in God’s Word. He writes, “The impact of this ‘prophetic hermeneutic’ is serious indeed. In the first place, as has already been stated, this type of approach to Scripture causes the Bible to lose its ability to provide boundaries for doctrine and practice because the Bible simply has no objective meaning. The Scripture means whatever any particular prophetic teacher declares that the Spirit has told him it means today. This style of teaching also serves to remove any definite understanding of Scripture from the common man who realizes that he simply cannot see all the things in Scripture that these teachers are seeing. This makes the average church person dependent on these ‘inspired teachers’ in order to know what the Lord has said” (p. 78). Once that happens, the individual is vulnerable to whatever such a teacher dishes out and whatever direction the teacher wants to lead him.

    Gibson spells out the tragic consequences of which few of us are aware: “Because these prophetic teachers do not approach God’s Word properly, they reach false conclusions. These false conclusions then support aberrant doctrines and unbiblical practices. These unbiblical practices and false doctrines undermine the historic truths of the church and distract Christians from the pure faith and the true work of the ministry” (p. 80).

    It isn’t only ignorance of the Scriptures or mishandling them on the part of many of the leaders of the prophetic movement. Some seemingly distort them for their own purposes.

    READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY

    Gibson quotes Wendy Alec, from her very popular book Journal of the Unknown Prophet.

    This is what she claims she has received from Jesus: “For the Word alone is yesterday’s manna and even they [prophetic teachers] have seen deep in their hearts that it is no longer enough to feed my people” (quoted in Wandering Stars, p. 86).

    So the written Word of God is not only “no longer enough,” but it’s also “yesterday’s manna.” Scripture tells us that leftover manna “bred worms and stank” (Exodus16:20). Who would believe that Jesus, who is the living Word, the same yesterday, today, and forever, the One who said, “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33), would have anything to do with such a blasphemous statement? Yet thousands accept it unquestioningly.

    We can’t judge Alec’s heart in this, but it is obvious that she has relegated the written Word at least to an inferior position in comparison to what she and others are supposedly hearing from God today.

  99. Foolhardy Fred Mar 28th 2013

    The Scriptures give us a sober warning that I believe is most applicable to the day in which we live:

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Again, sound doctrine is simply the teachings of the Word of God, which every believer is to read, heed, and obey. Yet, according to these teachers, since biblical doctrine stands in the way of the “new things God is doing,” it must be downgraded.

  100. Foolhardy Fred Mar 28th 2013

    Gibson quotes prophetic movement leader Francis Frangipane: “We have instructed the church in nearly everything but becoming disciples of Jesus Christ. We have filled the people with doctrines instead of Deity; we have given them manuals instead of Emmanuel” (p. 122).

    Frangipane and his cohorts have in fact done none of that. Gibson notes: “Frangipane seems oblivious to the fact that teaching people to become disciples of Jesus Christ would necessitate doctrinal instruction if for no other reason than because to teach them who Jesus is necessitates a doctrinal discussion. Additionally, how else is the church to follow the words of Christ given in the great commission and ‘teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you’ without instruction in doctrine?” (p. 114). Gibson’s response is stunning in its simplicity, yet what is even more amazing is that so many are not thinking through what they are accepting. He adds, “It is simply neither possible nor profitable to attempt to bypass doctrinal instruction. Discipleship may certainly involve more than merely doctrinal instruction but it cannot involve less” (p. 114).

    The leaders of the prophetic movement of necessity must make it “involve less.” Rick Joyner, for example, declares: “We must first understand that our unity is not based on doctrines. Such unity is superficial at best. Our unity can only be found in Jesus. To focus our attention on Him and learn to love and cover one another is far more important than agreeing on all doctrines. Having like doctrines is not a basis for unity…it is a basis for division!” (p. 115). Although “doctrine divides” is the mantra of the new prophets and apostles, they are correct in a way with which they would not agree.

    Romans 16:17-18 sets the matter straight:

    “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    ” It is false doctrine, i.e., that which is “contrary to the doctrine” taught by the biblical apostles, that “cause[s] divisions.”

  101. Marilyn, well said, i agree 🙂

  102. Foolhardy Fred,

    I like what you’ve written on this thread overall. I recommend Keith Gibson’s book very highly (even though sometimes I don’t think he goes quite far enough). I’m glad you see the tie between Latter Rain and New Age teachings. Having researched occult, esoteric, New Age teachings, I’m convinced this is the backdrop behind LR. This doesn’t mean that all those involved are aware of this and are following this voluntarily. However, it would seem that at least some of those who are teaching this are aware of what they’re teaching.

    For example, I’m quite convinced that Bill Johnson is teaching explicit New Age teachings, which are actually rooted in 1st/2nd century Gnosticism. But, is he doing this wittingly? While I cannot say so with absolute certainty (of course), he does this in such subtle ways, that it seems very possible. Of course, he could be so deceived as to have no idea of what he’s really teaching, or so deceived that he thinks that what he’s teaching is really orthodox Christianity.

    You’ve noted about how ‘rhema’ and ‘logos’ are used interchangeably in the NT, and yet how the Word of Faith and other hyper-charismatics claim the “prophetic word” is the ‘rhema’ while the written is the logos. This same concept is found in New Age teachings, though it’s not termed this way exactly. In fact, the teaching is that Jesus is the ‘rhema’ word made flesh. By this, the teaching is such that Jesus was a man, though a special man, who had the “Christ spirit” (anointing, Christ anointing) come on Him thus enabling Him to do miracles. Primarily, this enabled Him to ‘hear’ “God” via the ‘rhema’ word. So, he was the ‘rhema’ word “made flesh”, as the “Christ spirit” made its habitation with Him.

    This is identical to the Christology of Bill Johnson. He even went so far to say that

    …It’s the Spirit of God [ED: “Christ anointing”] that makes this thing [the Bible] come alive to where we actually have the privilege of the Word becoming flesh in us again, where we become the living illustration and manifestation of what God is saying.

    Note that WE “actually have the privilege of the Word becoming flesh in us again”. According to Johnson, just like Jesus, we can become the ‘rhema’ word made flesh. In Christian orthodoxy, Jesus Christ was the one, unique eternal Word made flesh. That is, the eternal second Person of the Trinity united Himself with human flesh and ‘tabernacled’ with us. He was (and still is) fully/truly God and fully/truly man.

    While I’ve done extensive research into Bill Johnson, I feel confident that if one were to really analyze the teachings of some of the others in WoF / hyper-charismaticism, it could be found that they’re teaching the same thing.

    Now, I do think it possible to have a sort of end time revival (“pockets of revival”); but, looking at Scripture, I don’t see how it’s possible to have a “billion souls saved” as hyper-charismatics claim.

  103. This is what she claims she has received from Jesus: “For the Word alone is yesterday’s manna and even they [prophetic teachers] have seen deep in their hearts that it is no longer enough to feed my people” (quoted in Wandering Stars, p. 86).

    So the written Word of God is not only “no longer enough,” but it’s also “yesterday’s manna.” Scripture tells us that leftover manna “bred worms and stank” (Exodus16:20). Who would believe that Jesus, who is the living Word, the same yesterday, today, and forever, the One who said, “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33), would have anything to do with such a blasphemous statement? Yet thousands accept it unquestioningly.

    We can’t judge Alec’s heart in this, but it is obvious that she has relegated the written Word at least to an inferior position in comparison to what she and others are supposedly hearing from God today.
    Fred………………..BE BLESSED.
    BUT……………….WE KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS………
    Todays mindset has become
    we dont know their hearts…………….even when one does wrong.
    WHERE do you think this came from…………………
    WE know the tree by her fruits
    and this alec……………..IS going down the path which leads to destruction. BECAUSE the HOLY SPIRIT would
    NEVER say such things Perioid.
    So we must acknowledge this is of satan.
    AND pray this alec comes out of this mindset of men and reasonings before its too late.
    I promise Paul, or james, or jude
    WOULD have OPENLY rebuked this type of teaching before all
    that all would KNOW its of satan.
    You have done well by exposing the new age.
    But never say we cant know a heart. This alecs heart
    is NOT OF GOD. and this i can see very clearly
    no matter HOW kind they may be.
    TIs not a spirit filled heart . its a sensual spirit.
    NO spirit would say the scrips are OLD MANA
    when paul, and the apostels and Christ always stayed GROUNDED in them.
    But in all………….you have done well exposing the many lies.
    BUT know we SURE can know the heart by its fruits.
    and alec is in danger of hell fire, lest he or she
    come out of this sensual mindset.
    and FAST.

  104. Jda016 Mar 28th 2013

    I don’t believe there is any authority on this earth higher than God’s word, I do however believe that God also speaks to His people through things besides His word. Those things just have to line up with Scripture.

    I believe the Holy Spirit guides and leads us in certain specifics of our lives.

    For instance, the Pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night guided the Israelites on exactly where they should go and where they should be. They had the Commandments, but the Commandments didn’t lead them specifically or in the same way that God’s spirit did. They of course never contradict each other, but I see the pillar of fire as I do the Holy Spirit in how He guides us today, if that makes any sense.

  105. Fred, as you already KNOW this new age
    is in many forms and teachings ALL over the churches and world
    and other religions as well.
    AND its all leading to son of perdition religion
    which now is a move of the dark one ,
    not yet the law of the land, But nigh its end
    its false love will be seen. For their love and mindset
    will come against the House of God, the lambs of the LORD,
    soon enough.
    As in the days of pre hitler germany, jews began getting
    the blame for the problems.
    At first this was only words, drawings……….
    then more hatred………..and soon a man came to POWER in which the words became Actions………….
    and what started out as words……………..ENDED with the death of over six million jews.
    FORWARD to today……….
    NEW scapegoat. and it aint christianity……
    they go along with all christains who are going their way.
    ITS FUNDAMENTAL Christainity that is UNDER attack.
    THOSE who Belive the BIBLE is GODS infallible word.
    THOSE who belive in the DIRE need to evangelize
    those who WONT conform to the world and its teachings
    Those who beleive that a BORN again life is NECESSARY
    those who claim JESUS is the ONLY WAY and no other way will save any.
    THESE are under attack by physcology, new age, reasonings of men, and now, even in so called christain churches
    its becoming a works focused on all religions coming together for world peace and unity.
    As time continues…………….we will not be seen as christains
    but as HATERS, as only in the way of peace and unity.
    and Then a dark one will stand. And unlike hitlers days
    this aint just one country…………THIS MOVE IS WORLD WIDE.
    and this man wont be just another anti christ
    he will be the man the new age and others are claming
    is on the way to unite the world into peace and unity.
    TO those who cant see, this move and this man
    will appear to have the worlds interests and a heart of peace
    and love. And new age and others
    beleive him to be the CHRIST of all religions.
    BUT to us………………..HE IS SON OF PERDITION.
    This dark spirit is moving fast upon the land and world
    gathering all different religions and backgrounds
    even atheist, gay agenda, secular…………into a common
    BELIEF of WORLD PEACE and UNITY and GOD love all
    and all are saved. ITS a lie of darkness
    but it is growing massivlely fast. its a religion which the FLESH
    can easily accept , for its already in the flesh.
    the biggest thing i see amongst christains today
    is they often say………..JESUS is thier way
    but not the ONLY way, that others will be saved in all religions.
    And no marvel…………..for these be the LAST days………….
    and all the world, those who reject the love of the truth,
    are being led right into the snare of the dark spirit.
    ONLY soon………………….a man comes……………..
    to lead the masses to be ONE mind, ONE WORLD
    as in the days of NIMROD the peoples were one
    so too we see in these days…….
    and so too shall a dark king and kings arise…………
    and lead the world to amergeddon.
    shall destroy many THROUGH PEACE.
    be blessed FRED. and have no fear.
    FOR to die is gain…………….to LIVE is CHRIST
    win souls and warn and pray for souls to come to JESUS
    for there is NO OTHER PLAN of salvation
    there is no other way to the Father,
    there is no other name where by we may be saved. amen.

  106. You are saying some good things Jonathan, when we are submitted to the Holy Spirit He will live through us…

    That can look very different at different times…

    But He will always be demonstrating the Fruit of the Spirit (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness & Temperance) whatever the specific action He is accomplishing through us…

    When David danced before the Lord and Michal despised him in her heart David was proven “true” before the Lord and “Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death”…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  107. Christian journalist Mar 28th 2013

    I am ridiculed in my profession as a christian. And why? It is the characterture as seen by the world of the christian church. Film wise, producers use the image of the Roman Catholic Church and its priests. With sexual misconduct and physical abuse which has come to light, this is what the world sees, and when it comes down to the real church, this is not reported about or even discussed on secular tv and radio. All people see is what is portrayed on so called christian tv channels and this is not good.
    So what is missing when it comes down to the established church? Division, turmoil, misconduct, abuse, and the exploitation of people to extract money from them.
    The outside world sees church buildings as cold and unloving and when one visits not much of an atmosphere exept singing a few songs, prayers said for the world, the emphasis on attending church meetings, and a sermon.
    Not much is done outside about Christ’s Commission and no influence in changing things such as anti social behaviour and the way people live.
    The children of society think this about the Easter message
    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/quarter-of-kids-think-easter-marks-easter-bunnys-birth/
    And these are the reasons why christianity is ridiculed in British comedy
    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/bbc-looks-at-why-christianity-is-ridiculed-in-british-comedy/
    Until the christian church has a overall of what it represents and where it stands with the Gospel message, it will go from bad to worse, not only with false teachings and prophecies but its future.
    Whatever excuses are made for its image and failures, the falling away will continue rather than this coming world wide revival which is being constantly plugged.
    I would suggest that folk debating the topic which brother Andrew has introduced, get on with the job which scripture declares and become themselves Elijahs’ and John the Baptists so far lacking in church. GO YE and do not turn back! For the Word of God instructs…
    “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?” (Romans 10:14)

  108. Lightning Storm Mar 28th 2013

    Many posts sound like “dispensationalists”.
    The Dispensation of GOD Himself VOICING AUDIBLE WORDS TO HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE has ENDED?

    God was still VOICING AUDIBLE WORDS to His chosen people AFTER THE BOOKS OF MOSES WERE WRITTEN and read and taught to His people.
    (This is written in your scriptures)

    God was still VOICING AUDIBLE WORDS to His chosen people AFTER THE GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN.
    God was still VOICING AUDIBLE WORDS to His chosen people AFTER THE EPISTLES WERE WRITTEN.
    AND the Apostle John EXPERIENCED even more than the AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD in Revelation……AFTER the Epistles were written.

    So do you think that the following words mean GOD NO LONGER WILL TALK TO YOU?

    Rev 22:18 KJV
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    Rev 22:19 KJV
    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

    These verses apply ONLY to the BOOK OF REVELATION, my friends.

    And who among you can read the scriptures and say that you HAVE FULL UNDERSTANDING OF GOD’S MIND WHEN HE HAD MEN WRITE DOWN THE HEBREW WORDS AND THE GREEK WORDS?

    I would be AFRAID, very AFRAID, to say that I can read the English translation, or any translation, and THINK that I know what God was thinking in that verse…….WITHOUT THE TEACHING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, GOD HIMSELF.

  109. Lightning Storm Mar 28th 2013

    The Jewish Pharisees made the same ERROR when it came to RHEMA and LOGOS.

    THAT is why they were BLIND to the Identity of Jesus Christ, and MISSED the VISITATION OF THE MESSIAH.

    The Pharisees put ALL THEIR FAITH into the written words of God and their knowledge of them.
    That is why they did NOT EVEN NOTICE when the PRESENCE OF GOD left the Temple!!

    Did you know that the written word calls the Tabernacle/Temple the TENT OF MEETING?

    Why did the High Priests go into the Holy of Holies?
    Why did God make a TENT OF MEETING when He already gave them Moses, Aaron, and the 70 elders?
    Why did God make a TENT OF MEETING when He already had Moses write down everything that HE AUDIBLY SPOKE to Moses?

    Do you think that God has SHUT HIS MOUTH for 2000 years and has NO NEED to speak to us forever more, He has said ALL that He has to say to us?

    What a BORING HEAVEN and what a BORING LIFE with only arguing over 66 books.

    That is exactly what the Pharisees did all day long with their time. Argue over how to APPLY the scriptures and what they mean.

    But then came A MAN, FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, His name was Jesus.
    And He told them CONTINUALLY, that they had no idea how to APPLY the words, because they had LEFT THE LIVING GOD OUT of their inquiries.

    They no longer had to go into the Meeting Place to INQUIRE OF GOD because they had the written word and they knew how to apply it.

  110. Andrew Mar 28th 2013

    What Wilkerson clearly believes is that last-days “Repentance” prophets are going to arise.

    Yet what he has been accused of on this thread is preaching ‘New Age’ – when in fact he is preaching the very opposite. He is advocating REPENTANCE.

    Hmmmm.

    There is something wrong with people who falsely accuse in this way. Pharisees, anyone?

    Blessings to all,

    Andrew Strom.

  111. David W was a great man of God and I value his input to us all, even today it is still being told. Below is what God revealed to me about end time calling. Like Jesus did, He asked people not to tell anyone during the many events of his ministry and miracles.
    March 2013
    “This has not been the usual way or practice of missionary endeavours, but missionary practices have over time been polluted by manmade organisations and enterprises, so I will call out those who are willing to go by the call of MY spirit and will be hidden in their doings, without manmade agenda’s and empire building. People have lost the true call of MY mission, it is embedded in the culture of their day and they run MY Spirit and Gospel missionary purpose like an extension of their businesses. But I, the Lord God, will have the last say and I will promote and demote or judge at will. This is the hour for my true servants to take the call, for the work of my true servants to be revealed. My servants will also expose and wash away the hypocrisy of religion, of hidden corrupted agendas and the hidden sins of so called believers. This is the hour of revealing, the hour when long time sin is revealed and people’s hearts are exposed for what and who they truly serve. I am a God who will not be mocked and My name, My word and My spirit will not be used corruptly or for men’s own personal fame and promotion”.
    God’s (true) remnant are already working quietly, diligently and with hope, receiving their reward from Jesus through personal relationship and many won’t see the fruit of their labours in their lives, as servants of old did not. God is no respecter of persons and He chooses the man/woman for the ‘moment’ of time to fulfil HIS purposes. Paul’s main resolve was to “know Jesus more”
    which was more important than even his great missionary journeys and miracles. The times of great intimacy that Arthur Blessit had with Jesus on his very solo journeys around the world. That is what he shares and we sense its vital importance and centrality to our own faith. God bless you all………

  112. watchful Mar 28th 2013

    Michael, it is funny you should mention the wedding garments because that has been very much on my mind lately…so far I believe it has to do with entering the sheepfold by the door and not coming in by some other way. In other words being clothed with Christ, who IS the door. That would agree with what you are saying about the guests receiving their garments at the door…..and it would mean that the interloper had entered by some other way, otherwise he would have been stopped at the door, or received his garments at the door. Anyway, that is maybe a start, I am sure there is more…eg, a husband covering his wife with his garment, from the book of Ruth as well as elseshere, I think it is mentioned in Malachi if memory serves. To me the garments has to do with our personal preparation….Esther has clues in the two phases of her preparation, as well as I believe Gideon’s army being twice refined…..Hope that helps, I’m just beginning to look at it myself….also to mention the Israelites in the wilderness….they underwent two baptisms so to speak, on their way to the Promised Land (sabbath rest). Likewise we in the wilderness having come out of religion, now need to come out of the world, and there is a sense of urgency in my heart about that.

    Marilyn, I completely agree with you about not adding or taking away from the word, and that it is not about us…..all the more reason to watch and see what the Father is doing and get on board with that, rather than drumming up something based on our own ’embellished’ ideas of what the scriptures says. I wasn’t trying to register an opinion about the article, all I want is to try and see what GOD is actually saying by that scripture and not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Randall, amen to your post that followed mine above (haven’t had time to read the rest yet) except that I think you might have misunderstood what I meant by waiting….obeying and waiting on the Lord to me are not mutually exclusive. It still remains that I don’t want to give birth to an Ishmael.

    He is able to do more than we can ask or imaginel so I try to try to take captive my imaginations and watch to see what He is actually doing. How many of us even saw this mass exodus from apostate Christianity coming before it happened…? To me that is a huge move of God just as real and on par with the Israelites leaving Egypt. When the Lord was leading me out, I didn’t even understand why until some time after being in the wilderness. So there is an aspect that I know it doesn’t all depend on me. yes, and He also sends me elijahs at the right time, so all glory and thanks to my faithful Shepherd who is able to lead me safely Home! His rod and His staff they comfort me, truly.

  113. Jda016 Mar 28th 2013

    Lightning Storm:
    “Do you think that God has SHUT HIS MOUTH for 2000 years and has NO NEED to speak to us forever more, He has said ALL that He has to say to us?

    What a BORING HEAVEN and what a BORING LIFE with only arguing over 66 books.”

    Hahah! Amen! Heaven will be so incredibly exciting because every time we look at God we will see some new aspect of his infinite majesty!

    Thank God that we have the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us in all truth!

  114. Marilyn Crow Mar 28th 2013

    Lightning Storm

    Yes, `adding & taking,` is written at the end of the book of Revelation, however Revelation is the culmination of all God`s word. So it is clear that God is encompassing all He wrote. Otherwise we can `add & take,` in God`s previous words, which would then make the book of revelation a nonsense as it would not line up with the rest of what God said.

    Andrew

    Yes we agree that Wilkerson believes that last days `repentance,` prophets are going to arise. What we disagree is on what he basis that on. If he said that God has given prophets to the Body of Christ & they are to equip the believers to go make disciples `turning hearts..` helping others repent, then we would all agree as it would be based on truth. (Eph. 4: 11 – 160

    But we cannot agree with the wrong use of God`s word as it leads to making all we believe a nonsense.

    Foolhardy said it very clearly, as did others.

    Why not base our thoughts on truth rather than error.

    We need to `handle accurately the word of truth.` ( 2 Tim. 2: 15)
    so we will not be tossed…deceived…& our lives are then producing good fruit as it comes from a healthy source.

    Marilyn.

  115. Jda016 Mar 28th 2013

    Dear Andrew Strom,

    This is off topic, but I thought you might be interested to know that even Mike Bickle (Whom I don’t endorse) wrote a good article (actually I haven’t read the full thing yet) about the errors of Hyper-Grace stating,

    “These men (those warned about in Jude) turned the message of grace into a message of lewdness or one that affirmed various compromises, even sexual immorality. These men with persuasive teaching abilities twisted what the Bible said about grace, thus empowering many to confidently continue in sinful activities without feeling any urgency to repent.”

    He called Hyper-grace “The crisis of our times” to which I was amazed. I had no idea this message was so far flung and wide spread.

    Sorry for getting off topic, but I couldn’t post it in the other thread. Just thought you might find that interesting. That if even he is seeing the errors of Hyper grace, it must be REALLY bad through-out the world.

    Carry on! =)

  116. Jda016 Mar 28th 2013

    After over a decade of receiving David Wilkerson’s Pulpit Series, I can tell his heart on the matter when he wrote this article.

    I know there is a lot of error out there and it can be hard to judge what a person is truly saying unless you know them. I feel I know David’s heart on the matter even if I never met him. Like Andrew said, he is talking about people who will be a “voice crying in the wilderness” preaching about repentance on a massive scale; a convicting repentance that will be so powerful and wide spread that it will be like the 3rd great awakening where people will be lining up, begging, “What must I do to be saved?”

    This, I do feel, is God’s word and what David is talking about. “….Mercy triumphs over judgement” (James 2:13). I believe that is God’s heart and while there will be judgement for many, I believe in an end time revival because, “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9).

  117. Lightning Storm Mar 28th 2013

    Marilyn

    Are you now saying that the only book we need is the book of Revelation because ALL God’s word is in this book?

    Well… Now I am floored.

    First people want to throw away the OT because it is not relevant to NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS….now we just throw out the NT because it is all culminated in the Book of Revelation!

    How can one read the statement “the prophecy of THIS book” and the statement “the book of THIS prophecy”
    and twist it to apply to the entire 66 books?

    The bible is 66 BOOKS, NOT 1 BOOK. Revelation is only 1 of the 66 books….which is what the warning was for.

    You are free to believe and mis-quote that verse all you want……but that is NOT what John and the Holy Spirit were saying.

  118. Andrew Mar 28th 2013

    Marilyn – you are utterly mistaken in saying this concept is “not scriptural”. Wilkerson gave the very scripture that announces the very thing he is saying-

    “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse” (Malachi 4:5-6).

    Just because it was fulfilled once before Christ’s first coming, does not mean it will not be fulfilled again before His second.

    This is totally logical and scriptural.

    You are the one being “anti”.

    Blessings,

    Andrew Strom.

  119. Marilyn Crow Mar 28th 2013

    Dear Lightning Storm.

    I don`t mean that all we need is the Book of Revelation. I said it was the culmination of all of God`s word.

    The predominant aim of Revelation is the setting forth of the splendours of the Son of Man, & to reveal His glorious person. There are 4 visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth.

    To reveal Christ to us in Revelation, there are 330 references to the figures, shadows, symbols, types, patterns, persons & buildings of the Old Testament.

    This unveiling (Revelation) is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centred on one purpose & that is to reveal Christ to us in all His glory.

    May we continue to exalt our precious Lord & learn more of Him.
    God bless. Marilyn.

  120. Marilyn Crow Mar 28th 2013

    Andrew

    Thank you for your reply & I can see what you are saying & why. My question is, `Why do you assume it was written to (about) the Body of Christ & not to Israel to whom God was speaking?`

  121. Andrew Mar 28th 2013

    Because it is clearly about the “Time of the End”

    -Andrew

  122. Lightning Storm
    Many posts sound like “dispensationalists”.

    Lightining Storm, i am a dispensationlist and i make no apology for that.

    Lightning Storm
    The OT is the NT concealed – The NT is the OT revealed!

    Andrew Strom
    With the greatest respect to you, it seems, you do not differentiate from scripture, what is to “the body of Christ”/Church and what is to the Nation Israel, again i say, no disrespect.

    Blessings

  123. booter Mar 28th 2013

    GOD Bless! to everyone, it sure seems that people spend a lot of time & energy trying to find other ways to GOD instead of going right to the ‘source’. They dissect The Bible in every way possible to find another way to GOD.

    At one extreme you have the Religions of the World presenting their versions of the truth ‘as they believe. At the opposite end are the Christian Believers (some of whom) are Missing the Mark by pursuing GOD through exhaustive study with other avenues.

    JESUS is the Way the Truth & the Light! If you’re looking for GOD then just: go to GOD! go to The Bible!

    I’m voicing my views because of all the ‘negative connotations In JESUS Name’ being furthered today, the current crop of ‘Elijah Prophets’ comes to mind, as does ‘the signs & wonders movement’.

  124. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    But this is not a prophecy about the “Elijah List”. It is about “Repentance” prophets in the last days. Quite different.

    And neither is this a website for Dispensationalists. -Please- Go and muddy the waters someplace else.

    Andrew

  125. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew

    Now I see why, what you believe, thank you.

    However had you noticed that the Lord said,
    `The oracle of the word of the Lord to ISRAEL through Malachi.`
    (Mal. 1: 1)
    Then in our text Malachi 4: 5 the Lord says
    `Behold, I am going to send YOU…..` (referring to Israel.)

    Marilyn.

  126. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    Technically every word of the OT was written to Israel.

    And technically 98% of Jesus’ words were spoken to Jews.

    So we should ignore all of it?

    -Andrew

  127. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    If you are a “dispensationalist” I ask you please to leave this site.

    The whole Bible is for me and Jesus’ words are for me – whether I am a Jew or not.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  128. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew

    I have been referred to as a `Pharisee,` `anti`, one whose part of some comments that have `made this blog the most discouraging thing on the planet` & now one who` muddies the waters & needs to go else where.`

    Why are we troubling you Andrew? I saw that last night & went & prayed for you. I am ready to repent of my hypocrisy, bad attitude etc as I do want to grow more like Christ.

    Can you tell me exactly what it is I am doing or saying that upsets you so?

    Marilyn.

  129. booter Mar 29th 2013

    I’m not so jaded as to think that these AntiChristians would pass on a chance to discredit GOD to further their agenda.

    I had no intention to ‘muddy the waters’ I only meant to illustrate the connection to the false prophets who take advantage of Believers and the Believers who fall for their deceptions. They ride the coattails of Committed Christians and capitalize on every opportunity.

  130. I’d like to ask a question to all of us posting…

    Who of us posting actually believe that John 17 will be fulfilled before Jesus comes again to reign?

    Specifically what Jesus said below, which relates to us – those of us who know Him – right now (I’ve highlighted what I believe to be the most important part in italics below) …

    But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil [one]. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, [are] in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
    (John 17:13-23 NASB)

    Let’s think about whether we honestly believe what Jesus said in this scripture above will happen or not – this was what was on Jesus’ Heart before He suffered…

    Do we really believe that God the Father will give our Lord Jesus Christ what He asked for before He went through the suffering necessary to release us from our sins?

    Do we really believe that He will answer this prayer?

    If we don’t then I would suggest that any comments that we have to make on this website in that state with respect to the future of the Church will be counter-productive as they will not be made in faith…

    If it’s good enough for our Lord to pray this way is it not good enough for us His servants to pray this way also?

    Did Jesus pray in vain?

    Do you believe that God the Father will honour Jesus’ prayer?

    Cover us all with Your Blood…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  131. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew

    Yes the whole Bible is for us to learn from but it is not all about us.
    Are you saying that everything in the Old Testament is about the Body of Christ? Really, I am just trying to understand from where you are coming from.

    I have been taught things & you have been taught things & we are all trying to understand each other.

    And what is wrong with `dispensationalists?` I really want to know.
    I am not trying to be difficult or argumentative.

    Marilyn.

  132. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    We know the entire OT is a “shadow” of the new. In that sense it is for ALL of us.

    The entire OT also shows us the character and the holiness of God – which again makes it for ALL of us.

    We also know that many prophecies from the OT are to be fulfilled in the CHURCH AGE. That makes them for all of us.

    We also know that the vast majority of the teachings of Jesus are designed for the CHURCH – which again makes them for ALL of us who believe or want to believe.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  133. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Thank you Andrew that is very helpful. So we agree it is FOR us but not all ABOUT us.

  134. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    Many prophecies are are both about the church and Israel.

    Many of the prophets spoke things applicable to both.

    Anyone who cannot see this, in my opinion, is deceived.

    Much of the OT is UTTERLY APPLICABLE to the church. We are “spiritual Israelites”. The Bible tells us so.

    (Which has nothing to do with “Replacement” theology in any way)

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  135. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew J.H. – yes I believe that Jesus prayer will be fulfilled before His return 🙂

    I believe that ALL scriptural prophecy that relates to events before His return, will also be fulfulled – even if some have been partially fulfilled already, or are prophecies that have a mutiple fulfillment.

    My concern though Andrew, is not whether the members of His body will be united, spiritually, but who those members are..? There are many who profess to be ‘christians’ yet we know that scripture declares there will be a multitude to whom Lord Jesus says – ” ..I never knew you..”.

  136. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew S. – I note your comment to do with ‘spiritual Israel’, and your affirmation that it is not ‘replacement theology’.

    For a while I have been concerned about the use of the terms, ‘spiritual Israel’ and ‘Israel of God’. Here are two article links which may help those who are as unsure as I was about these terms: http://www.dawntoduskpublications.com/html/Spiritual_Israelites.htm
    http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd5.htm

    In His love,
    Roger

  137. You know that I am a member of the Church Roger and I know that you are a member of the Church (the Holy Spirit witnesses this to our hearts) but how do you believe the world will see the unity of the Church with one another as Jesus describes in John 17?

    How do you believe (practically) that the world will see our love one for another in the Church?

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  138. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew

    I am amazed & quite appreciate you spending time to clarify my & other`s thoughts.

    I agree, as you do, that all of God`s word is `profitable for instruction, reproof, correcting & training in righteousness, ` & that there are `examples for our instruction.`
    (2 Tim. 3: 16 & 1 Cor. 10: 6, 11)

    Now just seeking some clarification. How do you know which Old Testament prophecies are `about the church,` & `utterly applicable to the church,` as you said? How do you decide?

    For example – Jer. 3: 8 & Is. 54: 5 -8
    The Lord gives Israel a certificate of divorce & then after Israel is rejected they are remarried again to God.
    Is the church going to be divorced then remarried?

    How do you decide which Old Testament prophecies are applicable? And what is your guide?

    It seems it`s one thing to receive instruction from other people`s example & quite another thing to believe what happens to them is what God is saying is to happen to you. And if it`s `some, things, then `How do you decide which things?

    Thank you again. Marilyn.

  139. Jda016 Mar 29th 2013

    For me personally Marilyn, God sometimes uses the OT to lead me in a certain direction.

    For instance, my family was in a state of turmoil as we knew we had to move to a new city as the one we are in makes us sick, but we were not sure where to move to. We felt no leading as we continued to try, in our own efforts, to figure it out. Then the Holy Spirit led us to Psalm 27:14. “Wait on the Lord; Be of good courage, And He shall strengthen your heart; Wait, I say, on the Lord.”

    We decided to wait and pray and trust and God showed us the city we were suppose to live in through a rather miraculous means.

    In this case God used one of David’s psalms which was meant for other Jews, to assist my family and give us hope. In this way I believe certain Scriptures, meant for the Jews, are also meant for Christians. If that makes any sense.

    As to how does one know which applies and which doesn’t, well I think it depends on the situation and most importantly, the Holy Spirit’s leading.

  140. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew J.H. – by sharing the truth with one another in love, by sharing materially, as we are led by the Holy Spirit, with one another in the love of Christ Jesus our Lord.. 🙂

    Sadly what the world see’s now is disagreement, hypocrisy, and the acceptance of false teaching – be it the promotion of ‘self’ or one form or another of mysticism.

    What isn’t understood (by the world) is that there is both the true ‘church’ and the apostate ‘church’ – and it seems there is a separation happening right now between these two..

    I believe there IS spiritual unity between the individual members of the Body of Christ, however I don’t believe that all who call themselves ‘christian’ are known by Lord Jesus. Not all are adopted ‘children of God.., not all abide in Him.. 🙁

    In His love,
    Roger

  141. As the Lord looks down from heaven on His Church (knowing exactly who they are) do you believe that He sees the fulfilment of what He prayed for to the Father Roger (granted that the Church is in spiritual unity in their new selves right now) at this point in time?

    Does He see the practical unity between the members of His Church?

    Does He see it the way He prayed for it?

    Does He see the testimony that He wanted?

    What more needs to happen before He can see it the way He envisioned it when He prayed to the Father?

    What needs to happen in the Church for the world to even make the distinction between the Church and anyone else who is falsely calling themselves by the Name of the Lord?

    And then on from that what more needs to happen in the Church for the world to believe as Jesus prayed for?

    If we believe this is what is going to happen then we should be very interested in finding answers to these questions, shouldn’t we?

    Cover us in Your Blood…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  142. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Jda016

    That is a great testimony, & I also am wonderfully encouraged by God in His word as it is `living & active.`

    The Lord can certainly quicken His word to us when it is about Him, His character. And we know as Andrew said, `the entire Old Testament shows us the character & the holiness of God..which ..
    makes it for all of us.` Very true.

    The point however that I am making is `are the specific prophecies of the end times God tells Israel, are they for the church?`

    Great testimony though Jda016. Marilyn.

  143. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew J.H. – When I look at events in the Middle East region, although these events aren’t occuring as I used to think they would, I can see that much of O.T. prophecy is being fulfilled quite literally, as various countries/regions align themselves (or are aligned by Almighty God) ready for the final fulfillment of scriptural prophecy.

    I am also aware that whilst in the western world, many cry out for revival, one may look at the so called 3rd world and see many being spiritually regenerated, being converted, being born-again by the Spirit of Almighty God, (Andrews blog ‘Incredulous in India’ speaks partly to that) and we also know of the same happening in China, some African countries, and the through many Islamic countries.

    The answers to the questions of what is going to happen, are in scripture – we may not understand the detail, but we have the promises, the prophetic writings, to guide us.

    AJH, I don’t know whether Lord Jesus see’s things happening the way that He prayed, I can believe that He see’s His followers throughout the world sharing as He has prepared and led them.

    I believe that there is nothing man can do to affect His plans, except believe in Him – trust, pray and obey as He leads through His Holy Spirit.

  144. Do you believe that the Lord wants to preserve visible Candlesticks – local congregations of His Church – Roger until we all come to that unity which Jesus speaks of in John 17?

    When Jesus spoke to the seven visible Candlesticks mentioned in Revelation 2 & 3 what did He ask them to do?

    Do you believe He is still speaking to His visible Candlesticks today?

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  145. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    The letters that Lord Jesus wrote (through John) were to seven literal churches at that time, Andrew, and we know that many see these ‘churches’ as descriptions of ‘church ages’ from then ’till now – with the thought that we are currently (collectively) the Loadicean church.

    Is that how you see them..?

    Certainly Lord Jesus speaks to individuals, in a number of ways at His choosing, and certainly members of His Body are to fellowship together.

    Discernment is needed, as well you know, so that we are not misled by false teaching and prophecies, of which there are many today, which in themselves are fulfillments of Jesus prophetic warnings.

  146. If we believe (as I do) that the Lord wants to preserve visible Candlesticks – local congregations of His Church – until we all come to the unity which Jesus speaks of in John 17 then these visible Candlesticks will need to be a vibrant testimony of the reality of Christ to cause the world to believe as Jesus says they will won’t they Roger?

    Jesus doesn’t say in Revelation 2 & 3 that each letter represents a certain “dispensation” of the “Church Age” (to use a couple of “charged” “buzz words”), I personally don’t believe they do and if we look at things right now we don’t see the characteristics of the Church at Laodicea represented in every visible Candlestick the whole world over…

    It is interesting to note that the Lord calls the Candlesticks His own…

    And it is only He who can remove them…

    Has the world yet believed as Jesus said they would?

    If not surely the Lord is going to use these visible Candlesticks – refined in the Fire as necessary – to demonstrate His Glory to the world?

    What would be more Supernatural than a bunch of very different people in one locality drawn together by the Lord to work together in humility under submission to His Holy Spirit to complete a very visible testimony of His Unity with Himself (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) to the world?

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  147. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew J.H., earlier (in this thread) you spoke of being told of a Joshus generation, who will move in the power of Elijah:
    But this Company – this Joshua Generation – will not be deterred by anything – they will witness in the Spirit and Power of Elijah – and will not love their lives unto death…

    There will be a testimony on earth of the way the Lord always intended things to be amongst those who believed in Him – practical demonstrations of both His Love and His Holiness in action…

    We know that many Christians are being martyred each year, obviously they are not afraid to speak out their faith, and are killed, for their faith and belief in Lord Jesus.

    Searching Google gives figures of – one every 5 mins, to some 170,000 each year – is this the ‘generation’ that you speak of..?

    If so, it is happening now, however, as others have said on this thread – there isn’t a label given them, either ‘Elijah company’, Joshua generation, or similar – there are just individual believers, confessing their faith, preaching the gospel of Jesus as Lord and Messiah, and giving their life for Him.

    These ones who are being martyred, every hour of every day, are living out their lives, giving their lives, in exactly the manner you describe.

    To die, for Christ Jesus, is a very practical demonstration of His love and Holiness in action.

    I also believe these numbers will increase, (the martyrdom), as persecution against members of Lord Jesus ‘worldwide body’ also increases.. I believe scripture confirms that.

    So yes, as persecution spreads through the western world, so the individuals will group together, and because they now ‘need’ to depend more completely on Lord Jesus, His power will be demonstrated, healings, food provision, other miracles – as they already are where they are being martyred.

    Like you, and many others, I too desire to see these things happen more often than they are now – before that persecution arrives

    In His love,
    Roger

  148. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    What is this THEORY that persecution produces the Power of God within people sufficient enough to produce signs, wonders, and miracles?

    I don’t find this mentioned in scripture.

    Jesus and His disciples manifested signs, wonders, and miracles without persecution coming upon them beforehand.

    The book of Acts announces when persecution actually began.

    Act 8:1 NASB
    Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

    Perhaps the believers in the 3rd world countries just have more TIME without worldly distractions to spend with the LORD.

    Perhaps the believers outside the West have NOTHING TO LOSE like the Westerners do. No house to give up; No electronic gadgets; No vehicle to give up; No reputation to give up; No bank account to give up; No 4-8 year degree in a career to give up; No “toys” in the garage to give; No hobbies to give up; etc etc

    Perhaps the believers outside the West know what True Worship and True Humility are.

    Perhaps they are more grateful for the PERSONS of the Trinity than the Westerners, because they have a better knowledge of dead and cruel IDOLS AND gods.
    Whereas, Western believers DENY they have IDOLS OF THE HEART and other gods.

    Persecution doesn’t change the hearts and souls of mankind…….ONLY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CAPABLE OF DOING THAT.

    History and the bible have shown us MANY people who have been persecuted become BITTER, ANGRY, AND PERSECUTORS themselves. (Take a look at the number of bullies and abusers who experienced that kind of abuse prior to abusing others.)

  149. 2 Timothy 3:15-17

    15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    Paul is saying from your childhood you have known the “holy scriptures” (which he is speaking of the Old Testament as we know it). Large portions of the New Testament comes from quoting the Old Testament.

    All Scripture is given by God.

    John 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

    GaryB

  150. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    The plain fact is-

    If Israel is not a “type” of the church, then large chunks of the Bible make absolutely no sense.

    Israel in the physical.

    The church in the spiritual.

    As I said, if this is not so, then large chunks of Scripture become utterly incomprehensible.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  151. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Thank you Gary B for pointing out verse 15 in 2 Timothy 3.This speaks of the Old Testament, `the sacred writings which are able to give us wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is Christ Jesus.` What a wonderful truth. We all agree with that & no one on this site has ever disagreed with that.

    I`m very sorry if that is what you or Andrew or anyone thought I was saying. That would be terrible. If you read what I have said I pointed out the truth that the Lord Jesus Christ is central to the Bible & all the types, symbols, etc are there to reveal Christ to us in all His glory.

    As Jesus Himself showed the disciples the Old Testament, `And beginning at Moses & all the prophets, He (Jesus) expounded to them all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.`
    (Luke 24: 27)

    Wouldn`t we all like to hear the Lord expound the Old Testament scriptures of Himself to us?

    Hope this helps. Marilyn.

  152. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew.

    I`m not sure where Israel is mentioned as a `type,` of the church, but I do know that God calls Israel the `church,` yes, `the church in the wilderness.` (Acts 7: 37)

    The word, church, `ekklesia,` means called out ones, which we all know. Israel is a `called out,` group which God has a purpose for, & the Body of Christ is a `called out,` group which God has a purpose for.

    We can learn alot from God`s word in the Old Testament concerning Israel, their behaviour & attitude, & how God deals with them. I agree with you fully. Wonderful examples & lessons to learn.

    My specific point is I believe God has specific promises to Israel to be fulfilled, (re: their land etc) & God has specific promises for those in the Body of Christ. (re: ruling in heaven with Christ, etc).

    Hope that helps explain what I mean. Marilyn.

  153. watchful Mar 29th 2013

    1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

    The voice of one calling in the wilderness to PREPARE ye the way of the Lord is still living and active……….all the more so as time draws nearer to His coming again. It is the same Spirit of elijah that is calling us to undivided devotion and to come out of the world and be separate, serving only one Master.

    That call is still first for the Jew and then for the Gentile, and both are called to one and the same gospel, how I know it is easy to lose sight of that so I just want to remind………Eph. 2, 3, 4 speaking of ONE new man being created out of the two by ONE Spirit, members together of ONE body, ONE hope, ONE faith, ONE God and Father of all.

  154. watchful Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew J, they were together in one accord when the Holy Spirit fell. Unity is there, and so is love, it is in spirit though we may not perceive it by outward appearances and with the natural senses. When I came to faith in Jesus about 25 years ago, as an unwed mother, I was drawn out of the blue to go to a little very conservative church one Easter Sunday morning. It was the church of my uncle who had been praying for me, though he would have preferred a more charismatic church, he attended that one for the sake of my aunt. The Lord opened my eyes to see the love of these people for one another and for Him, even though nobody would have perceived it except by His Spirit, they didn’t even treat me very well once I got saved and began attending there for a season. But the reason I knew it was simple genuine love had to do with previously seeing the false new agey love of a couple of cults that I had seen so I could compare the two. So we could saythat Jesus’ prayer has already been answered, unity is something which does already exist, but which also we grow into. The danger to me is if we are looking for something more than what has already been given to us through Christ by His Spirit. Because it says that in Christ He has already given us everything we need for life unto Godliness. Hope that helps..

  155. Marilyn, you rightly said
    My specific point is I believe God has specific promises to Israel to be fulfilled, (re: their land etc) & God has specific promises for those in the Body of Christ. (re: ruling in heaven with Christ, etc).

    Here is a good OT type of this –

    Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

    “stars of the heaven” heavenly kingdom (Church)

    ” sand which is upon the sea shore” earthly kingdom (Israel)

    Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    Blessings

  156. Shulte Mar 29th 2013

    Much more of the Old Testament prophecy applies to the end time harvest than is currently known. It doesn’t apply to political Israel or Jews in particular at all unless they are born again believers. Much of it never has.

    Persecution puts a sweetness in people… well, at least some people. I don’t think the third world has any advantage though as far as being used by God. They may even be at a strong cultural disadvantage because of their strong religious tendencies. The distractions of the Western World are meaningless and empty pursuits that are easily cast aside when viewed in contrast to the things of God. If you are not working for eternal rewards your life is totally pointless – believer or unbeliever.

    The west has its own people handicapped by religion. David Wilkerson is a good example. He seems to have integrity and a heart for God in contrast to many of the we see today, but he was so carnal/religious I can hardly stand to listen to him preach.

  157. Shulte, you said
    Much more of the Old Testament prophecy applies to the end time harvest than is currently known. It doesn’t apply to political Israel or Jews in particular at all unless they are born again believers. Much of it never has.

    Unfullfilled OT prophecy is directly TO unsaved Israel, who will be saved in the end (Rom 11:26)

    ALL major and minor prophets tell us this.

    Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

    This is just one of the MANY future prophecies/promises to Israel.

    Please read all of Eze 37 – One of the MANY promises TO Israel.

    Blessings

  158. I should have said –

    One of the Many FUTURE promises To Israel.

  159. Shulte Mar 29th 2013

    “6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.” Romans 9:6-8

    Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

    “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
    only the remnant will be saved.
    28 For the Lord will carry out
    his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”[k] Romans 9:28

    The idolization of the church of political Israel is utter garbage. Their house is left desolate and they will not see God again until they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Luke 13:35 Will some be saved in the end – yes.

    *spoiler alert* At the risk of getting burned at the stake as a heretic or ruining the end of the story, Ezekiel 37 is referring to an end time gentile king.

  160. Shulte, you said
    Ezekiel 37 is referring to an end time gentile king.

    Your statement does not line up with scripture.

    Eze 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

    Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

    37:20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

    37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

    37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

    37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

    37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

    37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

  161. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    Ezekiel 37 is referring to the Ephesians statement that watchful quoted. ONE NEW MAN.

    It is referring to JESUS CHRIST bringing both types of believers, Jewish and Gentile, together as ONE NEW MAN. Who is the ONE NEW MAN? Jesus, the Vine.

    We the branches are attached to the Vine as each of us is born again INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD WHICH REPLACED THE KINGDOM OF ISRAEL.
    The church did NOT replace the Kingdom of Israel, THE KINGDOM OF GOD REPLACED the Kingdom of Israel, with Jesus Christ as King!

    The Kingdom of Israel was DESIGNED BY GOD to be a THEOCRACY, but they RESISTED GOD and wanted RULERS like the pagan nations. (ie Saul)

    So God gave them the DESIRES OF THEIR HEART ACCORDING TO THE IDOLS OF THEIR HEART to teach them a lesson. (as we can read they were “stubborn, stiff necked, and unwilling to learn from God until they were completely ENSLAVED and lost their land)

    God’s PLAN was ALWAYS to have a THEOCRACY for ALL BELIEVERS……AND THAT IS WHAT HE GOT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST AND THE CROSS.

  162. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    Oops…I said Vine (which is true also) but in this case I meant TREE….THE OLIVE TREE.

  163. Lightning Storm

    I will have to disagree with you, Eze 37 in TO the Nation Israel alone.

    The one “new man” that you are talking about is in the Church alone, which can be Jew or Gentile.

    As i said Israel will be saved in the end (Rom 11:26) but Israel and the Church are two different identities and should not be confused, as One.

    Israel has NOT been replaced, as you say.

    Replacement theology is a lie from the “pit”

    Blessings

  164. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    I never said the “church” is BOTH Jew and Gentile.

    I said, “THE KINGDOM OF GOD” is BOTH.

    Jesus talked to the Jews and Israelites/Samaritans about the KINGDOM OF GOD.
    That’s why the Jews hated Him, because they thought that He was going to create a “hostile takeover” a rebellion, and become King of Judea/Israel.

    And the Apostles talked about the KINGDOM OF GOD…..AFTER Jesus Christ’s ascension to the THRONE.

    The other Kingdom we have to look forward to is the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN filling the whole earth, calling it the NEW EARTH. Rev 21:1

    When KING JESUS CHRIST hands over His Kingdom of God to His Father.

    1Cr 15:24 NASB
    then comes the end, when He hands over THE KINGDOM to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

    1Cr 15:25 NASB
    For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

    1Cr 15:26 NASB
    The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

  165. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    Ken1

    You say “Israel” has not been replaced, yet the scriptures are quite plain in their description that the KINGDOM OF ISRAEL IS NO MORE.

    The KINGDOM OF ISRAEL WAS A MONARCHY…….NOT a nation run by a political government that was elected by the people.

    What we have now that is called the Nation of Israel…….is NOT A KINGDOM WITH A KING.

    Even the Nation of Israel does not call itself the KINGDOM OF ISRAEL.

    They have NO KING; They have NO TEMPLE….and they never will because JESUS TOLD THEM THEY NEVER WILL.

    Jesus Christ ESTABLISHED ANOTHER KINGDOM, CALLED THE KINGDOM OF GOD, open to ALL people to become citizens of.

  166. Lightning Storm

    Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

    This is just one of the MANY future prophecies/promises to Israel.

    The Nation Israel was actually a Theocracy

    Here are the future borders to the Nation Israel, prophesied in the OT

    Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    Blessings

  167. Lightning Storm

    Here is a previous post of mine on the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace.

    Marilyn, that is exactly how i understand it, about the two witnesses (Moses and Elijah) They will witness (along with the 144k) to the Nation Israel (and also the world, emphises on Israel) for the first 3 1/2 years of the seven year tribulation.

    Matt 24:14 And THIS GOSPEL of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; “and then” shall the end come. (This will be done by the 2 witnesses and the 144k)

    What gospel?

    The gospel of the kingdom – what is that?

    It is the gospel of the coming kingdom, the kingdom that Christ WILL set up THIS TIME, at His 2nd coming to earth (millenium reign)

    This “gospel of the kingdom” was first preached by John the Bapist (repent for the kingdom of God is at hand) and then by Jesus at His first coming to earth. This is so confused today with Pauls gospel (the gospel of grace) The two are not the same, at all.

    Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

    Matt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    The “gospel of the kingdom” was ONLY to the house of Israel!!!

    Rom 1:16 “b” to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Greek.

    Pauls “gospel of grace (the mystery)” has/is currently on offer to the WHOLE world today (Jew and Gentile alike) but it is about to soon close with the rapture of the Church. Then the “gospel of the kingdom” is going to be reoffered to Israel and preached throughout the world and we know, as it is written in the Word, that Israel will recognise their Messiah this time and all Israel will be saved (Rom 11:26) and then the millenium kingdom will be set up.

    The “gospel of the kingdom” and the “gospel of grace” are NOT the same.

    Just as Israel and the Church are NOT the same.

    We need to rightly divide (2Tim 2:15)

    Blessings.

  168. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    Prove to me in scripture that the Kingdom of Israel was a Theocracy after the people DEMANDED Saul to be King.

    They had human kings, some were WICKED….even God said so.

    Over the centuries there were only a few kings of Israel and kings of Judea that INQUIRED of God for His rulership.
    The Laws of God were even LOST and not even known by many of the kings.
    The Ark of the Covenant was LOST….The PRESENCE OF GOD HAD LEFT during many of the kings’ reigning years.

  169. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    What? Paul preached “another gospel”?

    I’m sorry…..but you have way too many “kingdoms” going on in your theory, and too many GOSPELS going on.

  170. Yes, the “mystery” that was revealed to Paul alone –

    Gal 11 For I want you to know, brethren, that the Gospel which was proclaimed and made known by me is not man’s gospel [a human invention, according to or patterned after any human standard].

    12 For indeed I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but [it came to me] through a [direct] revelation [given] by Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

    Gal 16 To reveal (unveil, disclose) His Son within me so that I might proclaim Him among the Gentiles (the non-Jewish world) as the glad tidings (Gospel), immediately I did not confer with flesh and blood [did not consult or counsel with any frail human being or communicate with anyone].

    17 Nor did I [even] go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles (special messengers of Christ) before I was, but I went away and retired into Arabia, and afterward I came back again to Damascus. AMP

    This is the gospel of grace –

  171. Israel was a Theocracy run by the Sanhedrin under Mosiac law.

    Blessings

  172. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    Ken, you are confusing Israel with Judea and modern day Israel.

    When Jesus Christ walked the earth, there were 2 nations.

    1 called Judea…where the Jews and Jerusalem were.
    It was called the “southern kingdom” by some.

    The other nation was Israel….also called the “northern kingdom”.

    Refer to the OT when GOD told Solomon that He, GOD HIMSELF, will DIVIDE THE KINGDOM.

    Many people who believed what Jesus said about Himself worshiped Him as their KING…..He rode in on a “donkey”, which was ridden by kings. They waved palm branches and bowed before Him as their KING.

    Jhn 18:33 NASB
    Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

    Jhn 18:34 NASB
    Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?”

    Jhn 18:35 NASB
    Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?”

    Jhn 18:36 NASB
    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

    Jhn 18:37 NASB
    Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

    Jhn 19:21 KJV
    Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

    Jhn 19:22 KJV
    Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.

    Jesus never said that He was “King of the Jews”….everyone else said that about Him.

    Why? He states why in John 18:36.
    Because He is King over a kingdom much LARGER AND MORE ENCOMPASSING than the only the Jews.

    He is King over the KINGDOM OF GOD that is WITHIN THOSE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE HE IS MESSIAH, KING OF KINGS; LORD OF LORDS; SOVEREIGN RULER OF ALL CREATION……..(Jew and Gentile)

  173. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    Believe as you wish, Ken. I will not try to persuade you otherwise.

    May the God of Peace fill you with His Spirit of Grace.

  174. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    Israel is a unique entity and has not been “replaced” by the church.

    But a rather severe ‘divorce’ seemed to occur in 70 AD when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies and destroyed (1.1 million dead) – exactly as Jesus foretold. Jerusalem and Israel were scattered to the winds for almost 2000 years.

    I do not believe in “replacement” but I do believe it is the CHURCH that is the ‘apple of God’s eye’ in the New Covenant era – not Israel.

    The “remnant” of Jews can only come back to God properly through CHRIST – and no other way.

    And I agree that there is an “Israel-mania” in the church today that is very distorted. However, I do support the nation of Israel.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  175. Thank you very much Lightning, i appreciate it and i pray the same for you

    Blessings.

  176. Father, in Jesus Name I pray for each of us posting here who know You to be linked together – in Your will – with other believers in our various localities – only You can do this Lord – who know You…

    Where there is no visible Candlestick present in a certain locality where any of those who know You who are posting here are living please Lord establish one and even use those posting here to be the catalyst to establish it – either through prayer or through practically establishing it…

    Show us the Practical Power of Unity with our brothers and sisters in the Lord in the specific locality where we live…

    Elijah believed he was the only one left – the Lord told him that He’d reserved for Himself seven thousand who had not bowed the knee to Baal…

    Let us have our faith increased to believe that we will see the “the Church in ‘our specific locality'” functioning as Jesus set out for us in His word, the scripture…

    Let us submit ourselves to be part of the visible Candlestick which He is establishing – or seeking to establish – in every specific location we find ourselves in all over the world…

    I will build My Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against It…

    Release an Anointing Father to believe that You are bringing us – those who have been born again by the Spirit of God – together in our various locations with others whom You have caused to be born again that we might worship and serve You together in our various locations – wherever these are – around the world and go out into the world – together – to give witness to Your Transforming Power in our lives – to tell the Good News of Salvation through Faith in Jesus Christ by the Grace of God to everybody we come across…

    Let the Holy Spirit be poured out on us all…

    Let the Fire of the Holy Spirit – the Baptism of Fire – be poured out on us all – consuming the remains of “sin within us” and making us practically more and more and more like Jesus – which is the reason Your Holy Spirit – the Glory You talk of in John 17 Jesus – has been given to us…

    The Holy Spirit has been given to us – to each of us who believe – to make us like Jesus and to perfect us – each of us who believe – in Unity with every other one who has been born again by Jesus…

    Father, Release Your Holy Spirit…

    Release Your Holy Spirit on us all…

    Do whatever You need to do to make us One…

    Thank You Lord…

    Glorify Your Name in all the earth…

  177. I was blessed by your testimony of how you came to the Lord watchful and yes, Roger we do both long to see more and more and more fulfilment of what Jesus prayed for (what He saw when He prayed) in John 17 in the days ahead… 🙂

  178. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew

    I agree totally with your last comments, & it seems we have clarity now in regards to Israel & the Body of Christ. And yes there is so much Israel – mania taking people away from making disciples.

    Thank you for the very interesting discussion. Marilyn.

  179. Andrew

    That is how i see it also.

    Blessings

  180. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Lightning Storm

    I just couldn`t stop laughing at your response to Ken1,
    `you have way too many kingdoms going on…& way too many gospels going on.`
    You actually had 2 kingdoms in your comments.
    Anyway, I would like to think through my thoughts & comment on that if that is ok.

    Marilyn.

  181. Lightning Storm Mar 29th 2013

    This is what I said in one of the above posts.

    “The church did NOT replace the Kingdom of Israel, THE KINGDOM OF GOD REPLACED the Kingdom of Israel, with Jesus Christ as King!”

  182. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Andrew J.H. – with the letters to the 7 churches, this is how I read the context, and relevance, both to the original literal churches in Asia, and to the ‘church’ as a whole through the ages, so all 7 letters are still relevant..

    Although we use different words, we may be saying, and seeing, the same..? 🙂

    Rev. 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.

    – “What is “now” — these letters were to the seven churches, actual first century churches.
    – “What will take place later”– these letters are also to all other churches and Christians through the ages giving them precepts.
    – “What will take place later”– these letters were alerting Christians what would take place, not only at the time of the seven actual churches, but at the time of the end before the day of the Lord. Some of these prophesies were partially fulfilled in the time of the seven churches in Asia Minor. Some of them have a dual fulfillment in the last days, and some are yet to be fulfilled in the last days.

    ***
    Andrew S. – may I add my agreement too..? 🙂

    ***
    Blessings to you both my friends, and brothers, in Christ Jesus,
    Roger

  183. Lightning Storm

    Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (Israel) and given to a nation (Gentiles) bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Words in brackets are mine)

    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    As we can see, Israel is only blinded in part – until the fulness (full number) of the Gentiles be come in.

    Then it is back to Israel – When all Israel will be saved.

    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    As a side note to this, it is a 1/3 of Israel that make it through the tribulation –

    Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

    13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

    and –

    Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

    Blessings

  184. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Watchful

    Just want to say how encouraged I was to hear of your testimony of how the Lord led you to Himself. Also it would not have been easy to bring up a child in those days. I think you were brave.

    I didn`t realise that `Watchful,` was a lady, so I hope we can chat some time. Marilyn.

  185. Andrew Mar 29th 2013

    Yes Ken.

    I agree. And we are clearly nearing the end of the “Gentile” era

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  186. It’s obvious after reading the comments that we have all been influenced and taught the Bible with so many different views.

    I don’t think it is possible that anybody is ever going to change each other with all our many interpretations.

    Here’s something I think we can agree on here:

    Jesus Christ was taken by cruel and wicked men and placed on a cross for doing no evil to no one. This was part of God’s plan to sacrifice His Son for the sins of humanity. Jesus was crucified, hung on a cross and raised from the dead the third day.

    Now we can come to Jesus and be cleansed by His shed blood at Calvary. He has freely given us Eternal live and we are accepted in the beloved.

    Hallelujah, Praise God in the highest, I know my Redeemer liveth.

    I hope we can all agree this is in the Original Greek.:)

    GaryB

  187. GaryB, Amen i agree.

    Andrew 🙂

    Blessings

  188. Thank goodness for you GaryB. I love each one of you and love to ready ‘your intregity’. But for a minute there, I thought I was on the Babel Channel.

  189. Marilyn Crow Mar 29th 2013

    Dear Joan, Had a laugh at that one.

    All

    I believe we are unified by the Spirit, (Eph. 4: 3) as we know, & that we are being brought to the `unity of the Faith,` (Eph. 4: 13)
    To come to the `unity of the Faith,` means, I believe, that we need to discuss topics, as we are doing & the Lord will guide us.

    As the Apostle Paul says, `if you disagree on some points God will make this clear to you.` (Phil. 3: 15)

    The big lesson, (especially for me) is the attitude in which we say things. I can see we are all trying hard to say what we believe with the right attitude. (I have much to learn in this regard.) And thus through interacting, although often with different points of view, we come to understand each other better.

    Thus I believe that God is bringing us to the `Unity of the Faith,` by first helping us to get our attitude right in discussions (talking to myself above all) & then God will clarify His truths to us all.

    And this `getting our attitude right,` as we all know, takes awhile
    & practise.

    We are all in His keeping. Marilyn.

  190. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Marilyn, I agree with you, about getting our attitude right.. 🙂

    God will clarify these things to us, it is He who will continue to teach us His truths – which is our desire.

    The other spiritual aspect that I see in this, is that satan is heavily involved – it is in his interests to continue to divide, cause division, between all God’s born again children. So, he will use anything he can, and subtly, to hinder our focus on the things of God.

    The good news is that if satan is so active, there is a reason – partly that his end is near, and partly that he knows Lord Jesus will soon return.

    I believe that God will ‘allow’ this activity, He can use it to refine those who are His.

    In His love,
    Roger

  191. Roger (NZ) Mar 29th 2013

    Amen GaryB.. 🙂

  192. Marilyn Crow Mar 30th 2013

    So true Roger. Good thoughts, thank you.

  193. franklin Mar 30th 2013

    Our father GOD is trying to say and do something with Malachi CH:4 about 10 days ago I was inspired to read it out aloud and then to ask 4 lady’s who were flying out to Israel to read it out aloud in Jerusalem,then I get the E-MAIL that you sent out Andrew S, let us all be quite and let GOD our FATHER thou the LORD JESUS CHRIST by HIS ONE SPIRIT speak to HIS ONE body CHRIST in us is the hope of glory, let us not try to be like CHRIST but to let the ONE GOD thou HIS ONE SPIRIT ( which was the spirit that was in or upon Elijah) amen show HIM self in and thou as he wills,his will be done not ours,ONE GOD, ONE SPIRIT, ONE BODY, FATHER,SON and HOLY SPIRIT the 3 are ONE. Please look at ZECHARIAH CH 14 V 9 And The LORD will be KING over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name name ONE. wow our LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS if we are born again of HIS ONE spirit JESUS said you MUST be born again. JESUS prayed in John CH 17 that we be ONE I hope and pray this can help love as in JESUS Franklin.

  194. Marilyn Crow Mar 30th 2013

    Yes the Lord will be King over all the earth, as Zech. 14: 9 says.

    And as Lightning Storm pointed out from 1 Cor. 15: 24 – 26 that the Lord must reign until he has put all enemies under His feet.

    This we can see further in Zechariah 14: 17 – 19.

    `And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them…….. it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations ….`

    Christ ruling with a rod of iron. Immediate consequences for actions.

    Glad I wont be there. Marilyn.

  195. Roger(NZ)

    I see what you are saying and yes the time is short.

    I can see also where taking issue with cults like mormonism, or oneness heresy, or rhema/logos heresy is important to deal with and warn the flock.

    But it is hard to understand why someone would make an issue over what David Wilkinson says in this article.

    For several decades now God has spoke through reliable men of God who have had visions, dreams, and a word of prophecy telling of this endtime outpouring.

    I think those who question and belittle this information will be “passed by” when it takes place.

    Just some personal thoughts here not saying you were applying this, but noted what your said about satan working to divide.

    GaryB

  196. Those who are unwilling to work with a visible Candlestick in their locality once the Lord makes it quite clear to them that there is one in existence and tells them to join in with It are placing themselves outside of God’s will for their lives…

    In the days ahead those who are found to be unwilling (even after the Holy Spirit woes them) to become a part of such a visible Candlestick – one which is made up of born again of the Spirit believers – will be of no use to the Lord on the earth…

    The testimony in this final generation is too important…

    Father, please enable each one posting on this website who is presently outside of a visible Candlestick in their locality – one which You have ordained and which You have not yet removed – to be linked into a visible Candlestick in their locality in Your will and in Your timing as the Day draws near…

    And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
    (Hebrews 10:24-25 NASB)

    Not in fear but in reverent submission to Your will for Your testimony of our unity to be seen by the world…

    Let the Blood cover us all…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  197. watchful Mar 30th 2013

    Thank you Gary for reminding us of our Saviour’s great sacrifice….amen yes, I hope we can all agree and remember Christ and Him crucified, that’s the important thing.

    I just reflect on how great a God He is and is it even possible for mortal man to completely plumb the depths of His word…there is the aspect that we see through a glass darkly and He graciously pulls back the veil to reveal things when we need them or in His timing and for His purposes and glory or for prayer. Sometimes I wonder if He might reveal a thing as though just for friendship sake, like a gift. There is also the matter of our individual giftings and callings, I think that also has a bearing on what He shows to whom.

    Marilyn, my name is Therese and please feel free to e-mail me whenever you like……isrenderall at yahoo dot com

    Love to everyone and goodnight!

  198. Greetings.
    Isaiah 61:1
    Luke 4:18
    A prophecy Jesus read and fullfilled for himself and the church. This is more than enough to get the job done. Let”s go, time is running out.
    AMEN.

  199. Marilyn Crow Mar 30th 2013

    Thank you Watchful.

    Grant, The Lord did fulfill what He read, & so glad it is not time yet for Him to finish the sentence… `& the day of vengeance of our God.` You are right for time is fast running out.

    Marilyn.

  200. Marilyn Crow Mar 30th 2013

    Grant, I meant to write, `Yes, Grant, I agree the Lord…..`
    Sorry it came over a bit `teachery!!!!` like a teacher, which I used to be. Am trying to watch how I come over.

  201. franklin Mar 30th 2013

    Yes I agree lets keep the flesh in on the cross and and walk in the spirit, those who are lead by the spirit are the sons of GOD who only do the fathers will, John CH 5 V19 and 30 of my self I can do nothing I only do what I see my father do. not my will but your will be done father. JESUS said it is finished, FATHER into your hands I commit my spirit. not my works, not my words but my FATHERS he who sees me sees the FATHER for we are one. We can enter his rest, we are in the world but not of it. GOD bless you in the name that is above every other name JESUS. Franklin

  202. re Arthur Katz

    American author and Christian preacher Arthur Katz wrote a prophetic word in 1993 that was similar to David’s but the name Elijah referred to those who were willing to come out of the manmade religious system. His words say……..

    “What is coming in the spirit no denomination will sanction; and those that go on, will go on alone without the warmth, security and comfort of their ‘family’ ‘church structure’ or what they have been accepted in. It will be a time of bitter tears for many, because they will not be able to break ‘soul ties’ with their ‘church’ nor lose the place that they have carved out for themselves in the ‘structure’. Those places where the Holy Spirit is not honoured will go down the swirl in a sink drain. There is an Elijah mantle and annointing being conferred on people; the prerequisite for receiving it is obedience now! This Elijah remnant is being called out now. Those who have refused to move when God said move, will be deceived into thinking that where they are presently worshipping is the presence of God. They will continue to hear platitudes about ‘how loving God is and isn’t the fellowship we are having beautiful, without a word to correct their disobedient flesh.
    What is going on in the Elijah remnant gatherings will sound harsh to their ears. There will not be a discerning heart among them to realise that God is not there, having heard the call and rationalised it away –being trapped, depressed and involved in ‘renewal’. The majority will go on into idolatry, apostasy and confusion until the great day of confrontation, when God will use the Elijah remnant to speak the word that will cause fire to fall from heaven. Those that might have been in on the glory of God, will have instead to be brought to their knees through famine and watching that glory displayed through others. It will require this ‘proof’ though at a loss to have them finally turn to God as Lord, rather than what might have been theirs earlier through faith”.

    The Bible says that Jesus Christ was anointed by God with the Holy Spirit to spread the Good News and free those who have been held captive by sin (Luke 4:18-19; Acts 10:38). After Christ left the earth, He gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit (John 14:16). So now all Christians are anointed, chosen for a specific purpose in furthering God’s Kingdom (1 John 2:20). “Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee” (2 Corinthians 1:21-22).

    Perhaps the ‘Elijah’ calling is being used as a shadow type of his era but for the days ahead. In his era the whole land seemed apostate. Of all the thousands of Israel, only seven thousand remained who had not bowed the knee or kissed the hand to Baal. But they were paralysed with fear; and kept so still, that their very existence was unknown by Elijah in the hour of his great loneliness.” Today it seems just like then. The world is getting darker and more evil, the church is en route to apostasy, and genuine believers have to come out of it and rely on Christ alone. The true remnant is scattered and isolated from each other.

    Leonard Ravenhill wrote
    “Elijah lived with God. He thought about the nation’s sin like God; he grieved over sin like God; he spoke against sin like God. He was all passion in his prayers and passionate in his denunciation of evil in the land. He had no smooth preaching. Passion fired his preaching, and his words were on the hearts of men as molten metal on their flesh. Our praying is discolored with ambition, either for ourselves or for our denomination. Our goal must be God alone. It is His honor that is defiled, His blessed Son who is ignored, His laws broken, His name profaned, His book forgotten, His house made a circus of social efforts”

    These are Elijahs that God is seeking out -who will speak against the corruption of Governments, evil devices of men in high places and address the luke warm church, the pharises within them and today’s money makers in God’s temple.

    We hear a few Godly voices in our western nations but they are few and far between.

  203. David Marsh Mar 30th 2013

    What a powerful insight Arthur was given here in 1993. Alison, have you read Wigglesworth,s 1947 prophecy? You find that both messages refer to the same event that GOd is now organising.

    God bless

    David Marsh

  204. watchful Mar 30th 2013

    Andrew J, my brother do I take it you are part of one such Candlestick…?…I want to give you a word of caution – remember that Pharaoh pursued the Israelites in the wilderness, and remember Lot’s temptation to stop in Zoar…. the harlot Babylon will try anything to keep you in her clutches instead of coming out of her – flattery, the promise of a kingdom, earthly prosperity, a blind eye to sin, false love, etc, very similar to how the devil tempted Jesus in the wilderness and to which all our fleshly nature is subject to temptation. Be careful of who you let to lay hands on you, many who are Christians are transferring the same spirits now that the world does. I say these things out of concern, having known you on this site for a few years and seeing changes….you were running a good race Andrew, maybe ask the Lord who is it that has cut in on you.

  205. watchful Mar 30th 2013

    amen Alison M, i do believe that the story of Elijah and Elisha is very much an endtime one……….and unless I’m deceived in this, it occurs to me that “Elisha” needs our prayers before we are caught up.

  206. Lightning Storm Mar 30th 2013

    Why did people BELIEVE what Elijah proclaimed?

    Interesting that I have not seen people mention the SIGNS, WONDERS, AND MIRACLES that Elijah performed.

    The people BELIEVED Elijah ONLY because God GAVE PROOF through sign, wonders, and miracles that Elijah was sent by HIM. It is called CONFIRMATION.

    The HOLY SPIRIT COMES WITH POWER upon those who HAVE been SET APART AND SENT BY GOD to those who are walking in unbelief.
    There is more UNBELIEF in the churches than there is on the street.

    2Cr 12:12 NASB
    The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

    Hbr 2:3 NASB
    how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,

    Hbr 2:4 NASB
    God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

    So where is this Elijah company? And would you recognize one if you saw or heard one?

  207. Jda016 Mar 30th 2013

    I suppose a type of Elijah company or Holy Spirit empowered Christians are operating more frequently in God’s power in other countries; countries that are usually destitute and poor; countries where people can only rely upon God and not government to help them.

    Elijah didn’t operate in Ahab’s court, nor do we see Elijahs really operate in the laodicien church, which I believe is most of the West (There are some however).

    I do believe God will pour out His Spirit one last time on the West for the sake of the “10 righteous” (Genesis 18:16-33) who live in it and that there will be a great revival and afterwords the people will either turn their hearts back to the Lord, or it will become another Sodom and Gomorrah in terms of its destruction.

  208. MemoryLane Mar 30th 2013

    Watchful, re: and unless I’m deceived in this, it occurs to me that “Elisha” needs our prayers before we are caught up.

    Hmmm, thankyou for this spiritual alertness and discernment. I have often heard of this Elijah Spirit coming forth with great power and unction in the latter days. I had never considered that as all spirit filled believers who are going against the flow of this age, he too may indeed need the prayers of God’s People. Good thoughts!

  209. Andrew Mar 30th 2013

    John the Baptist was an “Elijah” and he came with “no miracles”.

    People simply recognized anointed truth when they heard it.

    I expect end-time Elijahs to perform miracles, but there were times when Jesus himself chose not to. So as to test their hearts.

    Blessings,

    Andrew Strom.

  210. debonnaire Mar 30th 2013

    both Elijah and John the baptist had to deal with a type of the Beast and a type of the Harlot.

  211. watchful Mar 30th 2013

    ~Interesting that I have not seen people mention the SIGNS, WONDERS, AND MIRACLES that Elijah performed.~

    I don’t find it particularly interesting…because maybe it was given to you to mention it Lightning Storm and not to others..? One part of the body doesn’t disdain or dismiss the other parts because of having gifts that differ from theirs. Are all miracle workers? are all evangelists? prophets? or teachers? etc, etc.?

    Elijah company is the whole rag-tag assembly in the wilderness, and just like David and His followers in the wilderness, we are a thorn in the side of King Sauls and would-be King Sauls by our very existence, much less when we warn etc. I’m absolutely sure that if we were to take a poll we would find miracles and signs enough amongst us all (except that I don’t seriously advocate it).

    Amen Andrew, to the wicked who are seeking signs and wonders, it seems He doesn’t usually give any except the sign of Jonah which they don’t recognize anyway. Who can fathom God’s wisdom and His ways!

  212. watchful Mar 30th 2013

    Memory Lane, I might have spoken out of turn with my comment about Elisha, I’m sorry for any confusion….I had in mind who is left to deal with things after the remnant of the church (elijah) is caught up to meet Jesus in the air, that we ought to be praying for them (elisha) while we are still here…but I’m still not sure Im even understanding it aright and really just mentioned it in case anybody would take it up so to speak. Sort of fishing for confirmation, while hoping to avoid getting hit in the head with an oar if I was wrong, lol. 🙂

  213. Averyl Mar 30th 2013

    Just thought I’d mention the following in regards to possible end-time events:

    I noticed that Barak Obama & the new pope have something in common, – they both esteem St. Francis of Assisi very highly & want to emulate him.

    The pope, – because he took his name.
    .Obama – because when he visited the Wailing Wall he left a prayer note in the crevice which was retrieved & given to the Jerusalem Post.
    It said, – “Lord, protect my family and me. Forgive my sins. Help me guard against pride & despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right & just. And MAKE ME AN INSTRUMENT OF YOUR WILL”.

  214. Andrew Mar 30th 2013

    Not a bad prayer from Mr Obama there.

    I regard him as a Secularist, so find it surprising that he would write in that way.

    Blessings,

    Andrew

  215. Hi watchful (may I call you Therese?), Yes I believe I am a part of one such visible Candlestick, Love in the Lord, Andrew… 🙂

  216. Lightning Storm Mar 31st 2013

    Mar 16:17 KJV
    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

    Mar 16:18 KJV
    They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    Mar 16:19 KJV
    So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

    Mar 16:20 KJV
    And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    These words seem to be the last Words that Mark heard Jesus say before Jesus ascended to the Throne.

    Doesn’t that make these Words pretty VITAL?

    After all, Jesus had been discipling them for 3 1/2 years, so this couldn’t have been the FIRST time He told them this……so why make it the very LAST WORD they hear before He physically leaves them behind?

    Plus, Jesus did NOT use the Word “you”….as in “you 11 men that have lived and walked with me for 3 1/2 years”. Jesus used the Word “they”.

  217. Lightning Storm Mar 31st 2013

    The words “adulterous generation” would infer that the generation was betrothed to Jesus in the first place.

    Therefore, those who claim the name of Jesus AND have IDOLS and OTHER gODS in their hearts…..ie adulterous…..WILL NOT EXPERIENCE signs, wonders, and miracles with the exception of the sign of JONAH.

    An adulterous generation are CHRISTIANS with IDOLS OF THE HEART and OTHER gODS that they worship.

  218. Roger (NZ) Mar 31st 2013

    GaryB – apologies, I missed your comment to me yesterday, where you said, in part: For several decades now God has spoke through reliable men of God who have had visions, dreams, and a word of prophecy telling of this endtime outpouring.

    I think those who question and belittle this information will be “passed by” when it takes place.
    I believe this is happening now, the outpouring, or has at least started already, and will increase as time goes on.

    My concern is for those who insist that this is still a future event – that it is already passing them by, which is why I posted this to A.J.H. (and all) on the 29th, to do with Christians being martyred (again in part): Searching Google gives figures of – one every 5 mins, to some 170,000 each year – is this the ‘generation’ that you speak of..?

    If so, it is happening now, however, as others have said on this thread – there isn’t a label given them, either ‘Elijah company’, Joshua generation, or similar – there are just individual believers, confessing their faith, preaching the gospel of Jesus as Lord and Messiah, and giving their life for Him.

    These ones who are being martyred, every hour of every day, are living out their lives, giving their lives, in exactly the manner you describe.

    To die, for Christ Jesus, is a very practical demonstration of His love and Holiness in action.

    I have a memory that some 10 years ago (approx) some 2,500 Christians were being martyred each year for their faith, (and confession, preaching, teaching) in Jesus our Messiah and Lord.

    I believe that one small part of the adversary’s deception, is to distract believers (in the west.?.) to ONLY look for some glorious future event, rather than focusing on the actual work that Lord Jesus is doing now through many of His disciples.

    We all need to be available every day, for whatever ‘servant work’ Lord Jesus chooses to use us in – for His glory 🙂

  219. Hi David (Marsh),

    I came across Smith Wigglesworth’s 1947 prophecy and a second one which most likely happened at the same or similar time…

    I also came across a prophesy from J Hudson Taylor last year and prior to that a vision from Tommy Hicks which also really impacted me…

    I shared on these three and some following thoughts and words which “came out” at the link below…

    http://ahouseofprayerforthenations.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/speak-the-vision/

    Do you have a witness that this is of the Lord?

    Cover us in Your Blood…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  220. Roger (NZ) Mar 31st 2013

    Andrew – Thankyou for sharing – I have not read these until today..

  221. No worries Roger, Love in the Lord, Andrew… 🙂

  222. Serenity Mar 31st 2013

    Thank you Andrew J. H. for that link and for your heart for Christ’s will to be done in His body.

    Each of us must walk in the light we have been given.
    Some have been called out from deadly ‘churches’, but cannot find a fellowship they can be a part of.
    Others carry on in fellowships they’d rather not be in, but God uses them in a limited way there, while they seek Him for a more fruitful area of service.

    I don’t think we’re all where we’re meant to be, (as was stated as a thought on your site).
    More prayer and pressing in to the Lord required !

    Brother Howard Pittman was shown that Jesus would begin to spew the Laodicean entity out of His mouth, starting in 1983.

    THAT we don’t want to be a part of. !

  223. Hi Serenity,

    The Church in Laodicea was planted by the Great Apostle of our Faith Jesus Himself – it was a visible Candlestick…

    It’s good to remember that…

    Jesus was here speaking to those who knew Him…

    They were still a visible Candlestick when He spoke these words to them (their Candlestick had not been removed by Him)…

    Once a Candlestick is removed it really is “come out from among them and be ye separate says the Lord”…

    Only the Holy Spirit can show us when that decision has been made by Heaven – by Jesus Himself…

    If He’s shown us that we are to “come out” from any particular Candlestick whether it’s been removed or not yet then we should obey Him…

    Obviously once there’s a clear sense in the Spirit in our hearts that we are to “come out” of a removed Candlestick then we should…

    The Holy Spirit is no longer there and demonic spirits will presence themselves there…

    No benefit will be had from remaining there unless the Lord calls us back to warn and tell those remaining that the Candlestick has been removed…

    Jesus loved His Church in Laodicea and I think we sometimes forget that…

    He spoke to them the way He did to get the point across of how far short they had fallen along with the fact that they knew about lukewarm water supply in their city…

    It shows us how strongly the Lord views His visible testimony…

    He’d rather they say they belong to Him and be hot – all out for Him in submission to His Holy Spirit living through them or not even bother to say that they belong to Him, i.e. not associate themselves with Him at all…

    There are other times in scripture where God in no uncertain terms said judgement was coming and offered no promise of mercy and the people repented and He relented…

    I personally believe He does this to test our hearts – to see how we’ll respond…

    Interesting words are found in Joel 2…

    As we read through it sounds like a “done deal” and then we get to verse 12…

    “Yet even now,” declares the LORD, “Return to Me with all your heart, And with fasting, weeping and mourning; And rend your heart and not your garments. Now return to the LORD your God, For He is gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger, abounding in lovingkindness And relenting of evil. Who knows whether He will not turn and relent And leave a blessing behind Him, Even a grain offering and a drink offering For the LORD your God?”
    (Joel 2:12-14 NASB)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  224. Quote>I believe that one small part of the adversary’s deception, is to distract believers (in the west.?.) to ONLY look for some glorious future event, rather than focusing on the actual work that Lord Jesus is doing now through many of His disciples.<Quote

    Roger and all,

    I agree here completely. Many think it will happen one day out there in the future, life then goes on with trying to exist in the rat race we call the American dream.

    We then find the dream was only a delusion.

    AJH, Serenity, and all,

    I tried before to do research on Laodicea wanting to know what it was like in this city, but there is not much history given on this place. I did read it was considered to be a place of wealth, great prosperity because of its location on a trade route and subject to earthquakes.

    They worshiped many different gods, including the emperors.

    To make a long story short, it sounded to much like America of today. Anyway you made some good points in your comments that reminded me of this. You know what they say history always repeats itself.

    GaryB

  225. One more thing, someone mentioned; Moses and Elijah were the two witnesses in revelations. I just wanted to say here that we know Moses died and we see Micheal the archangel with the body of Moses contending with the devil. What happened after that we do not know.

    There are only two men who have never died on the earth. Elijah and Enoch, both were prophets. I think this is the two witnesses who are sent back to the earth during the time of tribulation.

    Not trying to open a can of worms here, but to me it shows that Elijahs ministry has not ended as some have indicated.

    When revival comes it will come in the power and anointing of Elijah as indicated by Brother Wilkerson. The ministry of Elijah did not end when he was taken up in the chariot. Later those who refuse to repent go into tribulation and then we see God returning Elijah and Enoch to deal with the ungodly sinners. Fearful times await all who refuse the Lord’s mercy and grace.

    Just some thoughts on the matter at hand. 🙂

    GaryB

  226. There are far and few between church leaders who dare to spaek out about greed, corruption, deceit, and moral decline in the 21st century. Like what happened in Nazi Germany with the infamous Holocaust where millions of Jews were exterminated, not many christians spoke out either in the Third Reich or in the Allied Forces to come to their aid.
    Is this not similar what happens to christians who are standing up for Christ in the United Kingdom? Instead, they play religion to suit churchianity and politics because being born again christians is embarrassing and they wish not dislose their faith to anyone! This type of secrecy and denial is what happened to the disciple Peter who denied the Lord Jesus three times.
    It is the same within the church system when its leadership preach another gospel using replacement theology where the church has replaced Israel/Jews.
    Having said this please see what a former archbishop has said in challenging the leadership of the British government over policy that has or is being introduced. For the church is in disarray and divided on the issues raised.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301310/Cameron-accused-betraying-Christians-Astonishing-Easter-attack-PM-Archbishop-Canterbury.html
    When people argued amongst themselves about more Elijahs and John the Baptists in the church, I am sorry to say that they are few and far between.
    Christ has chosen you, if you are a spirit filled born again christian, to be such people. So those claiming to be His disciples had better follow Him and get on with the Commission which He has instructed you to do. His Word dares you to be different. GO YE which many believers have been saying. Otherwise, what people say and do is just playing religion.
    Are we living the the Last Days or is this another fad amongst those who call themselves christians who say one thing but do and practise the opposite.
    Do we accept what this Anglican bishop says about same sex marriages or do we contend the faith which comes from the Word of God? See link
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9950441/Bishop-labels-Church-of-England-hypocritical-over-civil-partnerships.html
    Christianity can mean anything today which includes cults, occult practices, and watering down the Gospel message where anything now goes.
    So what you believers think about my comments made?
    God bless you all!

  227. watchful Mar 31st 2013

    Lightning Storm, what I have found is that the Lord simply fulfills His words. And that it is usually along the lines of one’s gifts and calling, as well as depending on His will and who He is dealing with. The wind that blows where it wills.

    Don’t expect to hear about it on the evening news though, if we didn’t have the gospels and epistles we wouldn’t have heard about the miracles and doings of our Lord Jesus and the early church either…..there is something about being hidden in Christ.

  228. Enquirer
    I agree with what you shared here but to be honest, The question is; Is everyone here arguing? Maybe you are not implying this, but some of these comments are just a discussion about what the Lord may do or not do.

    If we were all setting around a table talking about the Lord and His Word we would be able to see peoples reactions and mannerisms while speaking. It would then be a lively but good conversation,and be seen in a different light.

    On the internet trying to put a few thoughts in writing for the sake of sharing sometimes sounds like people arguing. It took me a while to realize not everyone was out for blood trying to take my comments to task. 🙂

    I apologize if I am reading into your comment and thinking one thing and your trying to make a different point.

    The church sure is in a mess but I believe most here love the Lord and are zealous for the things of God. Maybe not all have this heart but that is part of the dilemma we find ourselves in.

    I was thinking recently about what some have said here. I thought of Jesus telling the pharisees that if satan’s kingdom was divided it would not stand. We see the church divided terribly and I thought by being so divided it would not stand as well.

    Thankfully God”s Kingdom is everlasting and will always stand, its a matter of all of us submitting to His Will.

    GaryB

  229. watchful Mar 31st 2013

    Andrew J – watchful or Therese for first name, and maybe my middle name is “Prone to Wander”……….His rod and His staff they comfort me and guide me back to His paths.

    Remember that Jesus entrusted Himself to no man because He knew what was in the heart of man…….be careful brother, these are perilous days. May the Lord watch over you, protect you, and direct your steps.

  230. Hi Therese, May the Lord bless you and give you His Peace… 🙂

  231. Hi GaryB, You’ve got me curious to do some more “research” on the historical city of Laodicea, Thanks for your comment, Love in the Lord, Andrew… 🙂

  232. Marilyn Crow Mar 31st 2013

    Hi Andrew J, GaryB & Therese, I am enjoying your research & discussion.

    Another tidbit of info to add to those who like to research history & symbols etc. I was intrigued awhile back by the `7 stars,` the Lord is holding, `the angels to the churches,` in Revelation 1, & found out some interesting things. You may already know but here`s what I found out.

    I saw that the Pleiades, mentioned in Job 9: 9, 38: 31, & Amos 5: 8 is the Heb. `kimah,` which means – a cluster of stars, the Pleiades, the 7 stars.

    I looked up the Pleiades on the internet & it has a wonderful picture of this cluster of stars. Apparently 7 are visible to the naked eye but there are thousands in its group.

    I thought what a wonderful picture of the Body of Christ, the 7 churches shown yet there are thousands (& thousands) of other believers not in view.

    Then apparently the 7 stars are in a bouquet arrangement in the sky & if we look at the 7 named churches in Revelation on a map they are clustered together in a bouquet. A jeweled bouquet in the Lord`s hand when He gathers His treasured ones for His own.

    (I am regarding the angels as representative of each church group so am just saying church & not `angel to the church,` if you know what I mean.)

    God`s word is so detailed & interesting. Am enjoying everyone`s sharing.

    God bless, Marilyn.

  233. Averyl Mar 31st 2013

    Did anyone see the Episcopalian church in Aberdeen, Scotland, has opened its doors to the neighbouring Muslims? When their mosque can’t hold all their people coming to pray, they go to the church to hold their prayers in there!
    Maybe the new pope will adopt that idea later!
    I wonder if the mosques would allow Christians to pray in them!

  234. Marilyn Crow Mar 31st 2013

    Averyl, Yes, sadly a sign of where things are going. We must be inclusive etc etc. they say.

    More on the 7 stars.

    One more bit of info which I think is a `wow,` factor. This is from C.J. Rolls, a missionary & Bible teacher from last century.

    C.J.Rolls said that he found out that the Pleiades, the 7 stars are a magnificent constellation of millions of stars but only 7 are visible to the naked eye.

    This group are more than 3,000 billion miles away, yet Christ has decreed that they control our planetary system, drawing it on a vast orbit that takes a 1,000 years to complete one circuit.

    What an amazing picture to show the magnitude of Christ`s authority is beyond our human reckoning. It reveals that Christ, not only has the Administrative Authority over all creation, but He is supervising the Body of Christ over the centuries & throughout the world.

    It is a symbolic picture of Christ the King with His royal sceptre to use as He wills. We are told that the 7 stars are the angels of the 7 churches. These are the ministering angels of the Body of Christ under His authority. These He directs to do His bidding.

    Christ is the one who planned the Body of Christ, & will carry it through to completion. He is the Head of the Body & has complete administrative authority over it.

    How awesome. Marilyn.

  235. Andrew Mar 31st 2013

    Good grief, Averyl!!

    When will this circus end?

    -Andrew

  236. Andrew it will eventually end,
    but not before millions of true christains are slaughtered
    for NOT conforming to world peace and unity.
    Indeed dark times lie ahead. This averyl speaks of……..
    aint just in scotland, its in many places.
    The creation of a world religoin which places no absolution of truth, where all are equal and god loves all.
    This is blasphemous. BUT its the falling away getting worse and worse. We few had better stay in the true word of GOD, JESUS and in the HOLY scrips. Because we aint going to hear truth from churches the world, or govts, all are being graffted into
    the one world relgion. as now its all the move of the dark one, to unite all faiths to get the people behind the kings.
    But in time, and i dont mean much longer
    the delusion will hit full force, a dark one stands
    and then those who didnt conform to the world will be rounded up,all under the guise of peace and unity and reeducation back into society. ONLY the goal or the prize to get out of those camps
    will be a LOYALY of rfid……………yes you got it
    a mark which will ensure no more terroist acitvity
    all buying and selling to be controlled.
    NOW go have a read on revealtions chapter 13

  237. GaryB Apr 1st 2013

    AJH,
    Praise God was glad to be of some help. Back at that time there was not much out there on Laodecia, I wanted to see what the people where like and what was taking place that influenced the church at that time.

    Someone had posted something negative about the information written in Wikipedia, so I did not know if all the history written there was accurate. It would be interesting to see what you can find out about the people, city, and further information on what happened to the church. I think I read that many believe Paul wrote a letter to that church that was lost over time.

    I read some articles on your web site, and was blessed by what you shared there.

    Lord Bless
    GaryB

  238. Truthseeker Apr 1st 2013

    With what Enquirer and GaryB have said I would say this – where do every believer go from here? The subject matter raised by Andrew is who are and will be the End Times Elijahs and the John the Baptists?
    From a personal point of view they are vey few and far between as already mentioned in the many comments on this web site.
    I don’t see church leadership making an appointment or knocking on doors of those in authority. Very few ministers, those who call themselves prophets, and others with religious titles, boldly calling people to REPENTANCE. I am not being cynical but this is fact. Otherwise there could have been a change of direction for nations and the church years ago. For the Billy Grahams of yesterday have not been seen for sometime and not forthcoming to proclaim REPENTANCE and SALVATION in CHRIST. Instead on christian tv, programmes are televised publicising world wide revival with (occultish) signs and wonders thrown in to get people on board but for REPENTANCE, that is a miss. I will ask those making their comments, is this the way foreward in taking such meetings on tour to be televised as of the Holy Spirit? For those on centre stage claim that what they say and do, is God given and no one should question their motives and practices. This is not scripturely right with their emphasis on “God is doing something new and this is what we expect Him to do” throwing in a few scriptures to substanciate their claims. If this be the case, then the result will be, just like what the Pontiff says, they are speaking for God and those who question their authority, are not. This is nothing but man made religion with all of the trimmings of deception thrown in.
    It is believers who make up the Body of Christ. It is they who have been commissioned by Christ. If believers do not take up their crosses to follow the Lord Jesus Christ, who will?
    Are not every believer an Elijah or a John the Baptist? If not, why not!
    It is not just talking about the topics which Andrew has raised on this web site. It is doing what the Word of God instructs very believer to do. For action speaks louder than words.
    I have been an armchair christian in the past. Now I must practice what I preach and say. Otherwise, I am playing a game of religion expecting everytime I pass go, receive a blessing which christianity is not about.
    The world has already seen what the EU can do with the banks in Cyprus. The EU can abstract, without your permission, monies from your bank account. Those EU countries in financial difficulties will have this applied to them when requesting a bail out.
    Randall Lowry has mentioned the Mark of the Beast. This is staring every one in the face of what the future banking system will become. Do believers take heed and warn?
    Now is the time to seek the Lord while He may be found.
    Would folk care to share their comments about the situation and act like Elijahs and John the Baptists.

  239. Christian journalist Apr 1st 2013

    I am glad that there a ministers who preach the Gospel message to those inside and outside of church.

    May this word of encouragement by Pastor Keith Brown bless those using this web site.

    A Thought for Today

    “But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and raised again for our justification” Romans 4:24-25

    How wonderful the Easter message is! Jesus Christ – BACK FROM THE DEAD! Many have and still are, trying to dispute and disprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Even many leaders in the established Churches do not accept or teach our Lord’s physical resurrection but instead try to spiritualize away this wonderful truth.

    The Bible is not a supermarket where we can select what truths and doctrines we would like to hold to, discarding the rest. This is not a ‘take it or leave it’ point of doctrine as many today treat it. It is an integral part of the gospel message!If you don’t believe it, then you are not really saved, It’s as straight and simple as that.

    Paul the Apostle had this to say in Romans, quoted above:

    “He was delivered (put to death) for our offences (Sin) and raised again (resurrected) for our justification”

    Without the RESURRECTION of our wonderful Lord, we would still be in our sins and eternally lost. Listen to the Apostle Paul again:

    “And if Christ is not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins, then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable” 1 Corinthians 15:17-19

    But, praise God, Jesus Christ is raised from the dead!

    “But now is Christ risen from the dead and become the firstfruits of them that slept” 1 Corinthians 15:20

    O glorious message! DEATH HAS BEEN CONQUERED! Christ is risen!

    Our text above tells us that He was raised for our justification. That’s a long word. JUSTIFICATION. We can understand it more simply if we break the word down. JUST – AS – IF – I’D (Justified) NOT SINNED or we could say, DECLARED RIGHTEOUS! Oh the wonder of it! We will stand before God the Father one glorious day (providing you are truly saved) and He will look upon us as if we had never sinned. Perfect, spotless! All because Jesus died and rose again.

    We can never separate the CROSS from the RESURRECTION. We can’t take one point and discard the other – if we do, we are not saved. We must believe wholeheartedly in the full gospel message.
    I really hope and pray that God will speak by the power of his Holy Spirit, to each of us on His RESURRECTION everyday of our lives. May we have a heart like the Apostle Paul:

    “That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death” Philippians 3:10

    Brotherly love….Pastor Keith

  240. watchful Apr 1st 2013

    Truthseeker, I think you are right, the elijah’s are really the end-time remnant, and we have already been warning on our way out the door and still warning as the voice of One calling from the wilderness, everyone according to their gifts and calling.

    Rom 10:18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”

    (especially now with the internet)

    I happened to open my bible and read last night the point at which Paul turned his attention away from the invited to the not invited:

    Act 18:4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

    Act 18:5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.

    Act 18:6 But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

    Act 18:7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God.

    (might be something to keep in mind at some point along the way)

  241. Christian Journalis, Words to meditate on and rejoice.

  242. Jda016 Apr 1st 2013

    Dear Watchful,

    Good Scripture! In other words the True Gospel will probably be better received by the world than by a Luke-warm Church!

  243. Hi GaryB, More than anything else we need to trust that He loves us no matter what He says to us, Peace does not come in knowing the future but in knowing that He will be with us whatever that future might involve, That He will never leave us nor forsake us, Bless you brother, Love in the Lord, Andrew

  244. David Marsh Apr 1st 2013

    Hi Andew J Horton,
    Just got back to blogging and read through your post on Tommy Hicks, Wigglesworth and Hudsons visions.
    It is only my opinion but Hudsons vision does seem to line up with the more solid Wigglesworth and Tommy Hicks visions ( which are amazing).

    Another vision that you might like to have a look at is:
    http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~revival/holmes1.html

    which is Robert. I .Holmes vision that he ‘titled’ JOELS ARMY & GIDEON’S ARMY.
    Worth a look, I believe.

    God bless
    David Marsh

  245. Marilyn Crow Apr 2nd 2013

    If we haven`t already moved on, I thought I`d bring up this point I received while having my afternoon rest. I think others have touched on it too.

    The Old Testament prophets warned the Nation of Israel of their rebelliousness against God but also spoke comfort & encouragement to them. Today we as the Body of Christ are blessed not only with prophets who speak God`s word but as believer`s we can be a `prophetic,` people.

    The Apostle Paul encouraged all believers to `prophesy.` And that can be delivered in a variety of formats, not just the formal, `Thus saith the Lord…` that I heard when I was growing up. (& was greatly blessed)

    We as the Body of Christ can speak forth `prophetically,` encouraging, exhorting & edifying. (1 Cor. 14: 3) as the Apostle Paul encourages us to do. And I have heard many `a word,` from the Lord on the site – thank you Andrew & others.

    Thus I see/hear God`s voice through His people more in this generation than previously. Amid great error there is still the voice of the Head of the Body speaking to & through His people, `encouraging….` Building us together till we all come to the unity of the Faith in Him.

    Praise Him. Blessing, Marilyn.

  246. Hi David,

    I haven’t had any real revelation (to date) as to what the army described in Joel 2 is “all about”…

    Just being honest… 🙂

    I sense upon commencing writing this response is that it depicts God’s Judgement (God can use anyone or anything to bring His Judgement)…

    I also know that God will refine in the Fire His Church (both Jew, Israeli & Gentile) before using them as the One New Man (Baptised in His Holy Spirit and with Fire) to go throughout the world “one last time” to complete what I believe Hudson Taylor, Smith Wigglesworth & Tommy Hicks saw…

    I also believe that I’ve seen (in vision I suppose – the first time was more an inner knowing that a literal “movie” type vision and second one was also although I saw things in both – hard to describe) the end of this (but I’ll keep that to myself for now)… 🙂

    All I know is that what I’ve seen and what the Lord has shown me or given me a “knowing” for keeps me “on track” and determined to complete all He places before me… 🙂

    I suppose that’s why the Lord gives us these visions – to stimulate our faith… 🙂

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  247. Apologies, “than” not “that” above… 🙂

  248. And “My sense” not “I sense”… 🙂

  249. Christian journalist Apr 2nd 2013

    I get very little encouragement as a journalist. With people who call themselves christians I find when the tough gets going they rather would run away and hide. In fact, many have abandoned or betrayed me in the last ten years while others who have the use of the telephone, e-mail, and other forms of communication. just cannot be bothered to use them and make excuses. Some are so engrossed in using Facebook and Twitter but talk about themselves, the holidays they have, what pop music and pop idols they like, and telling everyone about their exploits. Not much about the Lord Jesus and appear to be hiding their heads in the sand as to what goes on outside their dormain. So sad but very much true!
    However, their are a few people whom I can trust and we keep in contact whatever.
    Here is what Pastor Keith Brown sent to me personally, and as a brother in Christ, it is very much appreciated. I hope what he shares will encourage everyone as well.

    A thought sent to you today…

    “After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst” John 19:28

    At that moment, as Jesus was hanging on that Roman cross, He knew that He had completed the work of redemption. The Bible says, “Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished…” That word ‘ACCOMPLISHED’ is the same Greek word that we find in verse 30 where Jesus cried “IT IS FINISHED” It’s fuller English meaning is ‘completely complete’

    Jesus had paid the full price of our redemption! His precious blood was shed that we could be washed from all our sin and wickedness. It was done! It was COMPLETE! It was ACCOMPLISHED!

    The book of Hebrews puts it this way:

    “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL” (emphasis mine) Hebrews 10:10

    Just look at those precious words! ONCE FOR ALL

    1. ONCE FOER ALL TIME….never again will it need repeating.
    2. ONCE FOR ALL SIN….His precious blood is sufficient to cleans every sin that has ever been committed in the past, the present and the future.
    3. ONCE FOR ALL PEOPLE…..Whosoever will may come, the old hymn said, and it’s absolutely true. Whoever comes in repentance and faith will be saved!
    4. ONCE FOR ALL ETERNITY…..His precious sacrifice secures us for all eternity. All true believers have a place reserved for them in the Holy City, New Jerusalem, Heaven. Hallelujah!

    Because Jesus died on that old rugged cross, my debt to God has been marked ���PAID IN FULL” because I have believed on Him, repented of my sin and received Him as my Lord and Saviour. What a Saviour we Have! Do you know Him?

    One day soon, He is returning for His beloved, blood bought Church, the True Church of Jesus Christ. On that day, I know I shall be caught up to meet Him in the air. I know I shall be going to heaven, to that place that He is now preparing for me (John 14:2) If it depended on anything I must do, then I could never be certain that I have done enough. BUT, because it only depends on what Jesus has already done, I know it’s a done deal! It’s completely COMPLETE! It’s ACCOMPLISHED! Do you get it?

    Do you have that assurance? It only comes by receiving Jesus through repentance and faith. He has paid the price for you. He has purchased your ticket. Don’t waste it, receive Jesus today!

    “For by grace are ye saved though faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

    Brotherly love….Pastor Keith

  250. GaryB Apr 2nd 2013

    Truthseeker,

    You make some good points in your comment.

    I cannot help but think that the reason not everyone has or is given a Elijah type ministry is because they refuse to pay the cost. The cares of this life choke out the word.

    Hebrews 11 has been called the great hall of faith. Where men and women chose the Lord and saw Him has greater riches.

    Also as the parable says, one man sold all his pearls so he could purchase the one large pearl.

    Its the elect of God who move on in the Lord and search for His Kingdom, this is a least one reason why not all have an Elijah or John the Baptist type ministry.

    Some are willing to overcome in all things, and are Kingdom minded. God did not give Elijahs anointing to all the prophets in his time when he was taken up in the chariot but only Elisha would not take his eyes off of Elijah till the mantle fell on him.

    Just some thoughts here brother not all conclusive by any means.

    GaryB