THE “DOMINANT LIE” – Andrew Strom

Let me place this question before you: Is there one dominant, over-riding LIE that the devil has sold the Western world in the last forty years or so, that greatly hinders men and women coming to Christ? I believe so…

Let’s think for a moment about the ‘strongholds’ and “dominant
lies” which the devil has established in this modern generation –
and which hinder people today from believing the gospel. A man
wrote to me one time and mentioned that we can’t preach “sin”
these days, because many young people hardly know what sin
is any more. The man is absolutely right. (And of course, this
totally strips the gospel of it’s historic power). But since when
has this been the case?

There can be no doubt that the watershed or “revolution” that
ushered in this worldview largely occurred in the late 1960s.
Here is what it amounted to (particularly amongst the youth)-
“Sin” as a concept was suddenly abolished. Moral absolutes were
thrown out. Everything became no longer black or white, but varying
shades of grey. “Be happy, feel free, do what you want, cast off the
shackles of outmoded morals and values. Be liberated. Do what you
feel…” etc. And so it still is today. A completely ‘non-judgemental’
(ie. no right or wrong) approach to everything. So long as you don’t
“hurt” anybody, you can do as you please. You can sleep with anyone
(of any sex), you can abort your babies, you can taste any pleasure,
you can believe in any ‘god’ (including yourself). As many commen-
tators have noted, today the worst sin you can be accused of is being
“judgmental”. (And then will come the storm: “How dare you apply
your value system to ME? How dare you call what I’m doing ‘wrong’?”)

Thus in many ways, ‘Sin’ has almost ceased to exist in people’s
thinking and beliefs. And if you wipe out the concept of ‘Sin’, then
you wipe out a massive part of the basic gospel itself. For the only
reason Jesus had to come was to DEAL WITH MEN’S SIN. If there
is no consciousness of sin, then the gospel ceases to make any
sense. Why do I need forgiveness? Why do I need to repent? Why
did Jesus die in the first place? The cross is made of NO EFFECT
without a consciousness of Sin.

This is why all the great Revivalists emphasised Sin, and the only
remedy – Jesus. If you feel you have little sin, then you will feel
little need of Jesus. And then the gospel can become neutralized.
The devil knows this. He has seen many Revivals and he knows
if he can stop people becoming convicted of their sin, then he can
stop them from responding to the gospel in significant numbers.
Why is there hardly any conviction of sin amongst today’s
generation? Because in the 1960’s the whole concept of it was
virtually abolished (and still is). It’s as simple as that.

Now, if we wish to see true Revival amongst today’s generation,
what do we need to do? REFUTE THIS DOMINANT LIE. We have
no option. We need to re-introduce and preach the concept of “sin”
again. No consciousness of sin – no true conversion. For what is
there to repent of? The gospel almost entirely loses it’s power
without this.

Ever since the late 1960s we can see the fruit of this “dominant
lie” in the complete mess that modern relationships have become.
Teenage sex, single mothers, abortions skyrocketing, absent
fathers, an epidemic of divorce, drugs, broken families, poverty, etc.
What were the results of throwing away all morality and restraint?
What were the results of ‘free love’ and “if it feels good, do it”? It
is all there for everyone to see. But the sad fact is, this lie is now
so dominant and so ingrained that it would take almost a literal
“revolution” again to topple it. It utterly dominates today’s
Christianity, as well as the world.

May there indeed come such a ‘revolution’, my friends. May the
“John-the-Baptist” preachers rise again! May conviction of sin
return, that people might run to Jesus – the only one who can
wash away their sins and truly make them clean.

PLEASE COMMENT on this topic below-

-God bless you all. – Andrew Strom. ( [email protected] ).

Posted in Articles by Andrew on December 12th, 2012 at 9:21 am.


162 Replies

  1. Sin is the reason why man needed a Savior. If a person has a bible God holds them accountable. End days mean ‘the great falling away.” Whether men preach it or not, if it is in the bible, and we are held accountable. Romans 1 says that the power of God unto salvation is in the preached word, and we need a revival of the Whole Word of God being preached…..rightly divided.

    Fasting and non stop intercession must come for God to raise up men who will be lead us to revival. Weeping and travailing over a lost world till we are ready to give our lives to see others saved and spared hell. It takes a lot more than just “preaching” sin. A whole lot more! Who will be willing to pay the price is the question!

  2. We must accept the major blame ourselves. The great commission in Matthew’s representation of it states that we are to make disciples (learners) out of all nations. It then states that we are to teach them to obey (observe) all things the Lord Jesus has commanded us. If we do not hold ourselves accountable to our Lord’s instructions to us, is it reasonable to expect that people will gravitate to the bible’s teachings on their own?
    We must point out the devil’s tools to any that show the slightest interest in why we are different. Loud, so-called music in restaurants and coffee shops preclude personal conversation, thus we have “missed opportunity” in otherwise choice intervals. The casualness of all crime on television and in the reported news is enough to make most people accept these happenings as “normal” in our times.
    In John 17, our Saviour prayed that His disciples would be sanctified by the truth, and that God’s word is truth. Our job is to pass on that truth as best we can. Without doubt we must work harder in these times than prior to the 60s that you mention, but let’s get at it. My wife and I have three bible studies in our small home every week, plus many an hour spent with those who have individual questions. As I am crowding 80 pretty closely now, it is a bit more difficult than it was when I was younger. However we still have the Lord’s admonition to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might (Eph. 6:10).
    Let’s do that.

  3. AGazette Dec 12th 2012

    This definitely has become a major issue in Christian circles and that is let’s say nothing at all and just look the other way.

    The devil is using the world and the media to convince everyone we’re not to say anything using the “Sin”, word.

    I have noticed our whole family becomes agitated if we say anything about sin or a family member being in sin. They do not want to hear it anymore. Many of them profess to be Christians.

    Very good article here and I think your on to something that needs to be addressed in Christian circles.

    Lord Bless

  4. AGazette Dec 12th 2012

    Valley Ant
    On the last article I did not catch your comment. Yes I will pray for you this morning and you are welcome to email me. Can you get my email from this board or do I need to post it.

    Sorry for getting off topic so soon, but there was no way to response to this request.

    Lord Bless your day

  5. AGazette Dec 12th 2012

    That was meant to be “respond” to this request!

  6. You are 100% spot on, Andrew. And sadly, this same blindness has impacted much of the church’s own teaching too.
    The Alpha course, for example, though doubtless of help to very many, barely mentions sin. Which then begs the vital question, whyever did God incarnate to suffer and die? Was it really just to make us happy? This lack of acknowledgement of our desperate need undermines the gospel, and possibly therefore the ultimate security of some of those who ‘come to faith’ through this route.
    Alpha has so much going for it – but I pray that someone with influence within that ministry would ‘take this on board’, and address the issue seriously in a new edition.
    Thank you brother/sister, whoever you are.

  7. Ray Wilkie Dec 12th 2012

    Andrew – You are right that by taking away the cocept of sin then there is no need to repent. So in fact if there is no need to repent of sin there is no need to keep God’s Commandments because you no longer have to keep his laws.

    Yes you are right all this changed in the 1960’s. Churches by their thousands painted out God’s commandments on the walls of their churches all over the world.

    The Bible clearly states in numerous places including Rev_22:14 Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city.

    Thus unless we recognise sin is breaking God’s commandments then we have no place in God’s kingdom.

    The Bible also warns that
    Eph_5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.

    Satan through deception in the Churches has invited the wrath of God to be placed upon the Churches because of their diobedience.

    It is unfortunate that our Churches have been made into False Prophets whose fate is
    Rev_20:10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    God invites all to come out of this false teaching. Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues.

    God invites us to come out of Babylon (the confused Churches) and to keep his commandments. If we listen to what the Holy Spirit is telling each of us and obey then we will recongnise God’s truths and turn away from sin by repentance and then follow the truths of the Bible.

  8. truthseeker2 Dec 12th 2012

    I had the tv on for my father today and a very depraved movie was playing from the 60’s. It starred Warren Beatty and from the bits and pieces I saw it was about him chasing a single mother. Four parts stand out the 20 or so min I could stand it.
    1. Warren Beatty’s character is getting the single mother drunk against her knowledge and she is talking about how her son needs a father. Warren replies; “yes but a woman needs a lover too!!” (Hint, hint.) Then he says “Does the father and the lover need to be the SAME man??” (Hint, hint.) He was suggesting it was perfectly ok for them to have a purely physical relationship on the side of her being married to someone else.
    2. He laughs at the suggestion that he should marry this woman, saying “Hah! You can get all the benefits of being married these days without being married you know!”
    3. A nearly naked woman is dancing suggestively on a table top in a way that would challenge most of even todays rock videos.
    4. The small child in the film is treated as an annoyance that no one wants in their way, a total hinderance, a ‘thing’ to shut up and get rid of.
    Being a child of the eighties I was shocked to see how depraved the movies in the sixties already were back then, and the evil messages they were brainwashing the masses with: “Dont get married, its a ball and chain, and if you do have a lover on the side. Why get married when you can have it ALL. Children are a hassle and to be avoided at all costs. Women are sexual objects.”
    It is true there really was an all out assault on society by the enemy that exploded in the sixties and has got progressively worse since. MORE THAN EVER FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST NEED TO STAND FOR MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN, HOLINESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. God have mercy on us.

  9. Amen and Amen to all that you wrote there Andrew… Raise me up oh LORD in the spirit of Elijah

    We really do need to take another look at the true purpose of the Law of Moses. Those that are hidden in Jesus are not under the curse of the law (although we are to keep the essence of the Law through walking in the Spirit) but those that are not in Christ certainly still are and need to be told so.

    The modern Church has basically thrown the Law of Moses on the scrap heap with it mindless seeker sensitive say a little prayer theology and proclamation of the gospel.

    Lets use the Law (torah=instructions) of Moses and the torah=instructions of Jesus lawfully, “the law says do not commit adultery, but I say that if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have committed adultery in your heart”

    Blessings in Jesus,

  10. I have just been on Linkedin in the Christian section and posed the question Do we still need repentance for Salvation. It was amazing to have so many that understood the question and replied in true born again bible based truth. There were enough however to confirm that this is a truth that is being avoided by those that hold the pulpit.

    Keep it up we need to get the basics right before we can take them anywhere.

    Praise God and God bless your readers.

    Regards Oskar.

  11. Yes indeed Andrew I agree with you. Didn’t the Apostle Paul say that sin shall no longer have dominion over us, then why all the sin in the church today. The good book says choose you this day who you will serve, and too many are choosing the wrong god. When we choose to follow the Lord and walk in His ways, when we sin, not if,( because we all sin the good book says,) but when we have made up our minds to try and walk in the spirit so we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh, then the Helper/Holy Ghost is there to lead and guide us into all truth. The reason I believe there is so much sin going on in the church is this. I believe the greasy grace teaching that is going around is allowing some the right to sin. Just like the word of faith movement that was killing people naturally as well as spiritually, when people started taking the word of God out of context and messed up so many lives.
    The good book tells me that grace is greater than all my sin, BUT that does not mean I sin wilfully, that is only when I trip up once in a while. Grace is what helps me not to sin. There is not one of us can stop sinning, unless it is with the help of His grace. We are not to practice sinning and I believe 1st. John 1: 9: needs to be preached again by the Holy Spirit, and then we would see revival in the land. Help us this day my Jesus not to sin and to walk with you in the spirit.Amen. God bless you all. Thank you Andrew for stirring us up to this, we will be praying more in this area now. Blessings, Marie

  12. Yup right on we dance around sin as if it does not matter, very little talk beccause we want people to feel good and come back next week, build the biggest church. Can not build the biggest church if people will not come back because they don’t feel good. Pray and fast as if our lives depended upon it, and it does.

  13. Have to agree, I was one of them.
    Thank you Jesus.
    One thing is that the Bible told us what was coming in these last days.

  14. Really good article Andrew. As I’m living in Sweden all of this has gone so much further than even in America (where I’m from.) When I was younger I was taught the gospel of ‘come to Jesus and He’ll make your life better’, which I always found frustratingly out-of-sync with reality. Then someone gave me Ray Comfort’s ‘hell’s best kept secret’ on this topic. We do indeed preach a cure that is irrelevant to people who don’t know or believe they have a disease that needs cured. Thanks for bringing this topic to light again, we need to be reminded.

    I also feel the Lord’s clarified this important point to me: the goal of preaching sin and need of salvation is not just to get the sinner scared enough to surrender to Christ, but to get them scared enough to see where they would be if God didn’t love them enough to send His Son. We don’t understand God’s love if we don’t understand where we’d be without it. Then our response is not simply trying to preserve ourselves through the gospel, but a happy surrender to the one who loved us enough to spend Himself because He wanted us back with Him.

    Thanks again for the reminder, it would seem the Spirit has wanted to re-hammer this point in to me through several sources this week.

  15. Thank God for you Andrew, and for all those that responded to your post.
    Each one of you, I am sure, would have been born again for real, then you would also have the Holy Spirit.
    Therefore, you have the ability to hear from God, to hear His thoughts.
    I would like to share with you what has been revealed to me, both in a dream and by the testimony of a 10 yr old girl, who died back in the 1850’s.
    Angels speak to us by thought, they “think” to us.
    Demons also talk to us the same way.
    The Holy Spirit is in our hearts, and we need to discern the thoughts we have, whether they are from the enemy, the flesh or from God.
    You will all have had a thought at some time to do something, to ring some-one, bring something with you etc.
    If it is helpful and good, it is the Angel assigned to you, thinking,(talking) to you.If it is cynical or judge-mental or even lusful ot coveting, it is the enemy.
    If it’s just normal stuff, it’s just your thoughts.
    Try to be diligent to obey the God thoughts, and as you practice this, you will become more proficient in the supernatural.
    Don’t talk to the angels in the natural, either speak in tongues, or think to them, but don’t forget that they are there for our help, not to be worshiped.
    When you can hear with your spiritual ears, then you can grow in the words of wisdom and knowledge.
    You will pinpoint the hidden sin of others and prophesy as in 1Cor. 14: 24-25.
    We know the truth, let’s start manifesting it. I say we should storm the gates of Hell and make the enemies of Jesus a footstool for His feet.
    Let us snatch those that are in error, out of the fire, not just wait for some-one else to follow.
    Let us all walk in a manner, worthy of our calling, we are now sons and daughters of God, not slaves under a taskmaster.
    We need to believe that we really are new creations, stop looking back to our past identities, that is a thought from the enemy that we all swallow, hook line and sinker.
    I know myself, that I am not worthy, yet God has decided to love me and set me apart anyway, so who am I to argue with God,
    I, like you all, need to start believing that we really have come into the Royal family and start acting like God’s kids and reflect His Son through us to the world.
    We all need to stop hanging on to all that we call our lives, our home, and seek for the things above, our true home for eternity.
    It’s kind of like, been given a new car, maybe a top of the line Lexus, and we sit in there and feel the leather and the smooth wooden steering wheel, etc, but we don’t think we are worthy to drive it, let alone own it, and are afraid to even start it up.
    What we have, or who we are now, is of much greater value than 1000 Lexus’s, let’s start driving the giftings we have all received.
    Listen for the thoughts of God, told you by the Angels, test the thoughts with the Holy Spirit, if if seems odd and get going!
    I need you….. and you need me, we all need each other.
    But we all need to start moving and stop pointing the finger, (that’s going to be hardest bit, for me at least, but I am working on it:-).)
    Power and love to you all,

  16. Andrew, this is a much needed word in the Church today. It is a word that our leaders need to hear and consider. The great evidence of the absence of the Holy Spirit in our Church’s today is the lack of conviction; “…He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin…” (John 16:8) The heart breaking truth is that if salvation is preached, there is no understanding of what we are to be saved from! Underpinning this void of the awareness of sin is the notion that God’s love is unconditional (this is a term that is not found in the Scriptures.) When men make this statement it must be that they have not considered the implication. Unconditional simply means “not subject to conditions or limitations.” God’s love is certainly without limit, but the experience of God’s love is most definitely conditional, “You must be born again…” (John 3:7) Is this not a condition? When men hear “God loves you unconditionally” it automatically grants license to continue in sin because God must understand my weakness. In fact, if God’s love is unconditional, sin does not even need to be considered.

    I have been most encouraged by your Friday evening prayer conference call I only wish there was some way to ensure “words” that are shared were screened beforehand.

    Thank you for your courage and service. May the Lord continue to give you strength to stand and proclaim the Truth.


  17. Sin: yeah or nay is about self and eternal destination…all about self and when I choose what i choose if i choose anything at all.

    Yes everybody is seeking something more….as in Ecclesiates… there’s got to be more…sin isn’t doing it. Therefore many are spiritually seeking…New Age etc.

    Has anyone thought of preaching the gospel via the ” God so loved YOU….. and telling the love story..drawing people into RELATIONSHIP NOW vs. self choosing eternal destiny later?

    Sin = separation from God can be very easily woven in, in telling the story, as it is True…. apart from HIM things go NOT good….We can have Now a personal relationship with God daily and our destiny is in HIS hands as we walk with HIM daily, letting Him lead us and be who HE is and we can be who we are meant to be with HIM, not separated by our choices and lifestyle apart from HIM !

  18. Philip Smith Dec 12th 2012

    Good word Andrew.

    Our sins (wrong desires, bad attitudes, and wrong motivations/stealing) have been overlooked and have become transgressions (adultery/lust, murder/anger, dishonor/rebellion). Our transgressions have been overlooked and have become iniquities (Don’t take my Name in vain [against Jesus], No idols [against the Holy Spirit], No other Gods before Me [against the Father]).

    We usually know when we are doing something wrong in obedience because it is a black and white choice (Paul says that our conscience convicts us), but it is hidden from others because it is an issue of the heart.

    Our transgressions are built upon our sins and involve other people: wrong desires leads to lust/adultery, bad attitudes leads to Anger/Murder, wrong motivation/stealing leads to dishonor/rebellion. But once the transgression is formed we are somewhat blinded to it, but others notice it much easier.

    Our iniquities are built upon our transgressions in the same way and confront God character directly:
    -lust/adultery leads to taking the Name of the Lord in vain = against Jesus
    -Anger/Murder leads to making idols – against the Holy Spirit
    -Dishonor/Rebellion leads to having other gods – against the Father

    God said to Abraham, that the iniquity of the Amorites are not yet complete. When it was complete then there could be no more movement toward God and judgement followed.

    Elijah had to confronted the iniquity of the people directly because they had become blinded to their sins and transgressions. Elijah confronted their false god, the false authority, so that they could return to the one true God, the true authority. Only then were people set free from falsehood so that they could see their sin.

    If people’s hearts really desire God, they will be convicted by preaching sin and repentance. If people have become stiff necked and entrenched in their iniquity, then it takes fire from heaven by the authority of God to demolish and expose their iniquities. Then there will be a distinction between the prophets of baal who have sold themselves into iniquity, and the people of Israel who repented of their iniquity when they saw the truth of God.

  19. I have to disagree here. I believe the dominant lie.. in the church, way before the culture rebelled was that the law could change people. I think the hard,cold stone approach to religion is what fueled the rebellion. Jesus brought teaching that went to the heart, and LOVE was the basis for everything that the law spoke of, and everything He was. But this has not been what the church has projected most of the time. This is much bigger than I can cover in a comment, but I think it is a blessing that the western world is turning a blind eye to the “law” as we love to focus on morality (which we don’t keep either) and omit the law of love and justice. Often these immoral ingrates as we view them are doing much more the works that Jesus would be doing than we are. Even if the definition of sin is impossible to pin down in a culture that isn’t sure there is a god at all…. the real problem that sin brings is still there for everyone to contend with – and that is death. If the church will just make Jesus King in their thoughts and sermons and words.. He will draw all men unto Him as promised. But we don’t do that. We want to keep beating people with a law that they don’t acknowledge. Jesus is the Way, Truth, Life. His Spirit will convict people of their sins… you don’t have to. Bring people to Him. I know this is out of line with historical revival… except where one is concerned. 12 men with Jesus 2000 years ago. 🙂

  20. The greatest sin is unbelief. All abominations stem from that sin of disobedience.

  21. Jesus Christ is the only Savior of sinners; -and the Savior of ‘only’ sinners.
    –Very good article, Brother Andrew. It hits the nail on it’s head squarely! I was saved in the early 70’s at the age of 17. I ran away from home at 13; having witnessed a very traumatizing experience. I never returned, as my mother and siblings found be several miles from home in a ditch hiding. My early teen years were rife with sin dabbling. I recall awaking many times, to an overall shroud of sinfilth which covered me. God faithfully allowed me to feel the filthiness of my sinful life (and the separation sin causes between men and Him) before he saved me. His Great Mercy allows us to be immersed in ourselves, until we flail and die.-There is no life there. He offers us New Life in Jesus Christ. Praise Him for ever more!

  22. Marc Wildman Dec 12th 2012

    What you are inherently saying Andrew is that Christianity has become irrelevant, and tangential, it has not only lost its salt, but it is leavened past the two-thirds mark. This is why The George Barna Group has documented that 42 million believers have departed from the Church. George Barna and Frank Viola have also penned a book called ‘Pagan Christianity’ that I would strongly recommend everyone read.

    So, we can guardedly say God is about to shut the Church down? So many times we point fingers at the Mormons, the Jehovah’s Witnesses but in certainty, Christianity is not dissimilar. It’s time we move further than titles, away from edifices, and actualize we are the Church, not the constructions, not the conglomerates, not the unscriptural tithing, not the bank notes and the marketing and exploitation of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are the temple’s and God has already begun to judge his people.

  23. All very valid points.
    Even though man has tried to negate the idea of sin, the reality and consciousness of sin remains. All we have to do is to look at the misery and pain it causes and the angst people have in their lives because they participate in it. They just do not call it sin nor look at the cause but only the symptoms.

    Instead of defining sin by its actions only as has been the past approach and has not been totally effective, I think we can best awaken the concept of sin by first focusing on its resulting symptoms – the pain and disruptions and misery – it is having in people’s lives. Then once they realize that the symtoms are caused by sin, then sinful actions can be noted. People are always looking for answers to their problems and pain and will listen when answers are given instead of standards.

    We must remember that sin is far more than doing sinful things, it is missing the mark, it is falling short of the glory of God. How can those things NOT bring pain, misery, suffering. I think a focus on falling short of God’s glory and intended blessing for man should take the forefront in our preaching of sin. And sin MUST be preached but the apostles did not seem to preach it as standards that must be met and we should avoid such an approach.

    Being one with God is the alternative to sin and causing people to desire Him is probably the best antidote to sin there is. Preaching the glories of Christ and His intentions to bless man in REAL ways will do far more to bring a desire for holiness, I think, than will preaching standards of living as the answer.

    I don’t think Andrew is one who would do this, but we all know those who seem to focus on meeting the standards and neglecting the heart and we must avoid it. I think that one of the reasons why sin has denigraded is because it was about standards and not the heart. I also think God may have had a hand in making men deaf to such a presentation of sin and is only waiting for us to preach sin in its proper context – a spurning of His love and the blessings He intends for us.

    We cannot expect His joys or His blessings when we are walking in paths other than His. He alone has the path where such things are found

  24. Gayle Patton Dec 12th 2012

    A “devil may care attitude” toward sin did not start in the ’60s. You can see in numerous places in the Bible that the worst kind of sin was a problem. Lot knew better than to live in Sodom. The Hebrews knew better than to give in to sexual debauchery while Moses was gone. The woman at the well knew better than to live with a man who was not her husband. The Romans of Jesus time thought divorce and remarriage was expected along with a lot of other sins. There’s nothing new under the sun. The problem is with the Church who thinks she can ignore what Jesus said about sin and repentance. The problem is with preachers who think they can water down the word and get away with it. Attitudes toward sin have remained the same down through the ages. It’s the Church that has changed since it’s inception. We Christians need a healthy fear of God that gets us back to believing what Jesus said and not false teachers of our day.

  25. we must view sin according to before Jesus sacrifice for it and after.the new covenant is not based on the law of moses but on the foundation of grace and truth (God’s word and revelation of the Spirit).Jesus sacrifice paid the price to defeat sin in our lives and sin has been defeated in the life of the believer.the believer is not to be dominated by a ‘sin conscious’,but a righteousness this righteousness that Jesus has provided will make the believer aware of sin as to avoid it.i do agree that sin still kills, opens the door to sickness and still sends to hell..i agree that it has been watered down (my heart grieves at the way grace is being mis-taught),but i do want every believer to rejoice in the fact that Jesus has defeated and overcame sin for you and this overcoming power is to be working in every saints life.

  26. This is where the persecution comes in, when true Believers tell the Truth. This is what separates the wheat from the tares. When we tell the Truth about sin the world will hate us and rightfully so. We are no greater than our Master for if the world hated HIm, it should also hate us. That is why the “church” and the world are comfortable in bed together. All in the name of “not judging” we are amassing blood on our hands while sinners (in the “church” and out of the “church”) are dying and going to hell. We must speak the Truth at all cost. Those whose hearts The Lord has prepared will be convicted and repent of their sin. Others may just be getting new seed sown in their hearts. Whatever the out come we leave that up the God. We just need to be His mouthpieces and SPEAK TRUTH!!!! Let’s deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow Jesus.

  27. RE: ~His Great Mercy allows us to be immersed in ourselves, until we flail and die.-There is no ‘real’ life there. (When we have flailed unto our last unrighteous breath, no life remaining- nothing to cling to..God hears our heartcry, for He Alone, has placed it there!) HE lifts us up to life anew when we cry unto Him..Jesus within the empty and broken man. The Law of all Laws becomes the inner man. Ro.7: 22 For [we] delight in the law of God after the inward man…
    How blessed are the People, whose God is the Lord!

  28. Denise Dec 12th 2012

    Another “watered down” reason that sin is not preached in the church today is because of all the confusion that the newer translations of the Bible bring to the Body–God is not the author of confusion

  29. Great article, Andrew!

    There are two major things I believe we can do to help battle the issue of “no sin” within the western societies.

    First, is to preach the Law. Decades ago at a conference of hundreds of ministers, an old minister was preaching and encouraged us ministers to preach the Law.

    He said, “Without the Law, there is no knowledge of sin; without the knowledge of sin, there can be no repentance; without repentance, there is no salvation; and without salvation, there is no heaven. So, preach the Law.”

    Secondly, we need to be followers of Christ in how we live our lives as His disciples. Christ lived His life in such purity that the Light revealed the works of darkness that they were evil (John 3:19 – 21; 15:18 – 21).

    When we live holy lives, upright, and pure, then our lack of compromise, lives of righteousness, and the refusal to participate in the world’s sinful works will stand out to them as salt and light (Matthew 6:13-16). Our lives will be a rebuke to their sin.

    Numerous contributors to your web sites have often quoted 1 Peter 4:17 – “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; . . .” However, it is set within the context of Christians living Christ-like and suffering for it by a sinful world which hates their sin being exposed by the lives of Christians (verses 12 – 19).

    This kind of living, however, will bring persecution and hatred from the world. Many Christians are not willing to pay such a price. I believe this compromise by Christians, in general, has contributed to the world negating sin; the Church stopped living as Christ because it wanted to find acceptance by the world.

    May God help us all to be more like Jesus in our hearts and hence in the way we live our lives.

    God bless,

  30. DonaldN Dec 12th 2012

    Although sin is a major problem when trying to win the unsaved to Christ, we cannot expect the world to live any other way. It is the sin in the Church that has become the problem. The sin problem is not preached from the pulpits any more. People within the Church organizations live like the world. Judgment must begin in the Church before we can effectively preach the sin problem to the world.
    I have posted this statement before and it still fits in this discussion.

    The object of faith is no longer Christ, but our self-esteem;
    The goal of faith is no longer holiness, but our happiness;
    The source of faith is no longer the scriptures, but our experiences!

    We definitely need an abundance of “John the Baptist” preachers right now!

  31. When we do preach about sin we are branded as “intolerant” and the preaching as “hate speech”. But we need to endure hardship as good soldiers.

  32. Primeminister David Cameron is trying hrad to bring same sex marraiges into the christian church. He and other leading Conservatives are doing likewise such as the Mayor of London called Boris Johnson.
    The bishops in the Anglican Church are divided too as with the ordination of women bishops.
    The Word of God is being dismissed on such issues on the grounds that the Bible needs to be modernised for the 21st century.
    Sin is sin and Repentance is repentance. These specifics are being watered down because people no longer recognise these and are being replaced as something else.
    What has begun with politicains who are in leadership is being gradually being completed in the modern western christian church which bears no longer any resemblance of the New Testament church as described in the Bible.
    I came to know the Lord through the witness of the Jesus People in 1970. They preached the Good News out on the streets of London. Yes, they were young people.
    So where are the youth of today who claim to be christians preaching the Gospel message on the streets?
    I am sorry to have to say that the this no longer exists. Church leadership do not encourage this as this is considered obsolete for the 21st century. Instead people are expected to go to church to hear a religious sermon or a talk. To get bums of seats, entertainment is provided in the name of Jesus with so called signs and wonders being performed, plus a clap happy atmosphere so that folk will come back to the next church service.
    Christianity is being changed to churchianity with all sorts of false teachings being proclaimed with additional flavoured prophecies thrown in to get peoples’ attention.
    Welcome to the new social clubs under the umbrella of religion.
    And this is called “revival.”
    Have a look at this concerning same sex marriage.
    The word homosexuality is being adopted to be as normal and acceptable. If a believer says otherwise, the title they will receive is either a “christain bigot” or a “bigotted christian.” You are told that you live in the past and not fit for the 21st century.
    This is the tip of the iceberg for what is coming in the End Times.
    Kindly have a look at this as a wake up call

  33. Philip Smith Dec 12th 2012

    Jesus taught on the ten commandments 3 times in the sermon on the mount. First he taught the content/obedience version (i.e. blessed are…), then the relationship version (i.e. you have heard that it was said…) and then he taught the spiritual authority (i.e. when you…).

    Our obedience is to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but the truth of the ten commandments still stands, even more so, it is magnified to a greater depth. Not just physical issues, but heart and spirit issues as well.

  34. I may be missing the point here buy I really don’t see the problem with the devils lies. I really don’t. The world is full of them. It’s not just one lie that keeps us from God.
    The problem is the preaching. The Gospel is the answer for ANY and EVERY lie the devil has spoken into the church & the world. HE, the Holy Spirit will convince the world of it’s sin no matter how decieved they are. All we need to do is preach the Gospel.
    So Andrew I beg to differ, the devils lies don’t keep people from CHrist, the lack of preaching, in the power of God’s Holy Spirit is the one big problem. It’s even the churches problem. The Church is in just about as much sin as the world. When a so called christian country votes in a president who approves of child murder, then understand where the church is.
    Be Blessed – Ian

  35. Things have gone so far that only a major awakening of God can bring the massive Spirit of repentance needed. Preaching sin is absolutely needed but will be largely ineffective at this point without the preachers humbled and empowered by God.

    Definitely preach sin and repentance, and absolutely get on your face and cry out to God for his apostolic anointing!

  36. Mark Phillips Dec 12th 2012

    Hello,I’m just an unregenerate Gentile ; but just to throw these two cents in :

    One of David Pawson’s major burdens is the sentimental (instead of scriptural) nature of modern evangelism. In what is one of the most important talks of his life,he cites an American study in which people were asked why they do not ‘go to church’ ; one of the top asnwers was that they did not like the lovey-dovey preaching !

    Here is the free talk ; do listen to it soon Andrew ; and all on here :

  37. Great article! I don’t have time right now to read through other’s comments, so forgive me if I repeat something someone else said.
    Here’s an example of something that has bothered me for awhile. Seems society doesn’t call someone who drinks: “a drunkard”, but instead they have an “addiction”. You aren’t a sexual pervert anymore, you have a porn addiction. You are not homosexual, you were born that way. As though these things just ‘happen’ to a person, removing any responsibility of the person for the sin. I believe one of the well-used phases: “hate the sin, not the sinner” could give impression that the two are somehow separate in God’s eyes. There is remedy for sin, and of course GRACE and FORGIVENESS for sin, (IF we repent) but to say that I am not my sin, is error to me. If I lie, I am a liar. If I cheat, I am a cheater. If sin, I am a sinner. Society (and sadly the Church too, in my opinion) has downgraded sins to addictions, that are quite socially acceptable. How many 12-step “Christian” groups are actually made up of non-repentant sinners, who find comfort and acceptance to do the things they once knew were sin, and be patted on the back for it!

  38. Brad from Colorado Dec 12th 2012

    I think that the Lord wants each of us to learn the “sinfulness of sin” as a truth applied to our own lives so that we can share with others the reality of the Atonement through the cross of Christ. If we don’t viscerally know this then there is no point and power in sharing it. In John 15:7, the Lord is telling His disciples about the future time that He would be sending the Helper (the Holy Spirit) to them. He then tells His disciples that “when the Holy Spirit comes, He will convict the world concerning sin….” Notice that the context is that the Holy Spirit comes to His people and that the Holy Spirit convicts the world concerning sin. The Holy Spirit is convicting the world of sin – via His people – i.e., their testimony, their words, godly behavior – they are living letters. “As He is so also are we in this world”. As another has said, our life is demonstrated as light and salt in a dark and tasteless world. The evangelist must preach the word of the cross.

    In the early days of my Christian walk – I look back and see that my sense of sin was very shallow. Over the years, things i used to consider as not really sinfull, I now see as exceedingly sinful. I really did once believe that I was “rich and had need of nothing”.

    To continue to learn about the depths of my pride and the surpassing riches of the Atonement provided by the cross of Christ has helped tenderize me so that I can (as I walk with a limp- figuratively) share this good news about the cross of Christ with others that desperately need to hear it.

  39. I totally agree, however we may not entirely agree on the definition of what SIN really is! According to John in 1 John 3:4, sin is the breaking of the LAW (TORAH) – not what we decide to classify as sin.

    But the sad fact is, this lie is now so dominant and so ingrained that it would take almost a literal “revolution” again to topple it. It utterly dominates today’s Christianity, as well as the world.

    Again I agree with you, and I believe the “revolution” has begun – it is referred to under many names, possibly the most generic is The Messianic Movement.

  40. Kathleen in WA State Dec 12th 2012

    Hardly a week passes that I don’t hear someone say: “It doesn’t matter what you believe, so long as you’re a good person.”

    It’s just another form of spin to that age-old, twisted lie that Satan put to Adam & Eve: “Did God REALLY say ____?”

    Indeed, if ever we needed preachers who’ll summon people to repentance & righteousness, today is that day!

  41. My friends we are not called to preach sin. We are called to preach the Gospel…Christ crucified. THATS where the power is. The preaching of the cross. Agreed we have to call sin sin. Ther’es no other name for it. Lets not try to do the work of the Holy Spirit. We preach righteousness (CHrist) not sin. Shine the light of the Gospel.
    Pray for your pastors, love them & pray. Speak blessing over them every day. If they preach the Gospel & his Word in the power of God, the devil & ALL his lies mean nothing. Don’t tell people they’re sinners, tell them of the hope we have in Christ, let them see our love, peace & joy, & if they ask how to get this hope, then share the Gospel.. repent & believe & let the Holy Spirit do any convicting etc. But as much as the pastors need to preach with the power of the Holy Spirit, so do we, so we must all make sure we are enjoying wonderful fellowship with God daily, “prayed up & full of the love of the Lord” & the devil hasn’t a chance.
    Lets be careful not to do the accuser of the brethrens job.

  42. Barry Schmidt Dec 12th 2012

    The Christams story goes like this, “You shall name Hid name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.”

    I see three critical truths in the above verse:
    1. No sin- no savior- no Savior no salvation.
    Jesus PRIMARY identity and purpose is to save from sins. How can there be a Savior where there is no awareness of sins?

    2. It is HIS PEOPLE’S SINS that Jesus saves from-
    “Jesus prayed , “Protect them (your people) by the power of the name that you have me. I DO NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD but for those you have given me.”
    It is nothing new that the world denies sin friends. But this verse clearly says “He shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.”
    Gods people – even before they are saved – are brought to a deep sense of their sins by the power of the Holy Spirit . This occurs when we preach the gospel and trust God with the results.
    Going around telling the masses they are sinners is a colossal waste of time.

    3. he shall save His people from THEIR SINS”
    This is Gods answer to the feel good gospel of ‘praying the prayer’ and ‘greasy grace’ and Gods answer for self effort holiness.
    Jesus SHALL save HIS PEOPLE. From their SINS! Jesus will never leave His true saints in their sin denying worldly ways. He SHALL save then from their actual SINS!!!

    Friends why are we so obsessed over the worlds denial of sin?
    Jesus said, “Leave them alone- they are blind guides!”
    Paul said, ” don’t associate with anyone who calls himself a brother yet remains in sin. I am not saying don’t associate with the unbelievers who are in sin. Otherwise you would have to leave the world.”

    Go is well able to convict His people of sin and righteousness and judgement.

  43. While your article is true in that satan has mankind deceived, the the main reason for so much sin and permissability is not mentioned. You can’t deal with sins, which is man’s behavior, until you deal with the reason for sin, man’s nature. Jesus dealt with that nature on the cross. However, man is taught from birth that he is basically a good person. As long as man rejects the idea of havng an inherited nature that is sinful, man will continue intentionally sinning. Jesus died on the cross to undo what the first man did and to make opportunity for mankind to choose a new nature. This is the basic message of the gospel. Once the new nature is chosen the believer has the respnsibility to die to the old nature and live in the new one under the power of the Holy Spirit.
    It is not our responsiblity to convict the world of sin, it is the responsibility of the Holy Spirit according to Jesus’ own words. (see John 16:8)
    True revival comes when man’s nature is dealt with even within the “church”.
    Blessings – Pastor Len

  44. DENISE, I have yet to find a Bible translation which does not present sin as it is. The real issue is not that newer translations do not present the essentials of the Gospel.

    It also is not the multitude of translations which is the cause of confusion. I believe it is Christians’ laziness and lack of willingness to be diligent students of the Word which brings the confusion.

    Those newer translations which come from a historically conservative basis are a great aid to the diligent student who is not well-versed in the original languages.

    In some cases, this may require such a student of the Word to become well-versed in his/her native English language. Sadly, many English speaking Christians are ignorant of their own language (its grammar, structure, etc.).

    Confusion is generated when native English-speakers can’t tell the difference in such things as “your vs. you’re;” or “they’re vs. their, or there;” or “to, too, or two.” Also, it is seen when they don’t know how to create a sentence or a paragraph.

    Confusion is also brought about when one refuses to look at the fullness of light which is brought to bear on a greater understanding of Scripture which the study of numerous translations bring to the student of the Word. Knowledge is greatly limited by exclusively using a translation such as the KJV, which uses obsolete words, phrasing, and meanings of words. Such a translation (on its own) brings confusion to the modern English speaker as it is an old form of English which is not in common use today.

    I do not wish to become embroiled in the KJV only heresy of which I was once an ignorant proponent. I know all the arguments for it. It was through the work of the Holy Spirit and the diligent study of the Word and the issue (approximately 1000 hours) which brought me to the Truth of the matter.

    If you wish to objectively study the matter and be diligent in studying this matter, may I suggest the following websites as a start to your study: to study the history of the Bible and its development;

    May God help us be diligent to know the Truth and to live it rather than presenting inaccuracies due to our own laziness to diligently study to know the Truth.

    God bless,

  45. Barry Schmidt Dec 12th 2012

    Teshuva – your name sounds wonderfully Jewish!
    I’m not sure if I am allowed to answer a question you asked me from last article or not. Please forgive me if I am breaking a forum rule here.
    Teshuva- if I hear your question accurately you are wondering how to obey Gods commands to us without falling into self effort righteousness and this falling from grace.Here is my shortened version answer:
    1. Romans 1:16-17; and 3:21-25 clearly tell us we get right with God AND stay right with God based upon our credited righteousness ALONE.
    Everydivine favor, blessing, gift comes through this credited rightoesness ALONE – apart from anything in our behavior.

    2. Exekiel 36:22ff clearly tell us two things a) that G-d’s grace alone CAUSES us to obey His commands and b) that we gain NOTHING personally by our obedience by grace- “it is NOT for your sake- but for MY GLORY”

    3. FAITH in The cross alone apart from our behavior or performance secures everything WE NEED to get right with God, stay right with God and secures every blessing, promise and gift from God.
    Obedience is FOR GODS GLORY ALONE and secures nothing for us. That obedience is BY GODS GRACE ALONE and never by our own self will or self effort.
    4. Self effort always ends in producing the works of the flesh instead if the desired obedience we hoped for. ( see Romans 7 and Galations 5)
    Hope that clarifies

  46. L. Alex Smith Dec 12th 2012

    When did ‘church’ become a soul-saving station? Church is primarily for the edifying, building up, of the Believer. It is church– assembly– the Called Out Ones, who gather together to worship and praise the Creator, the Giver of Life. To study and “correctly dissect” His Word, the Bible (literal translation of II Timothy 2:15 (rightly divide, KJV, ortho tomeo, Greek). Paul says in I Corinth. 14, that IF any who is an unbeliever, or who is unlearned, COME IN–he whill be convicted by all and judged by all (vs.24-25). Normally the unsaved don’t come in. Soul winning, in which according to John 16:8 the Holy Spirit will convict the WORLD (not the Church) of Sin, Righteousness, and Judgement, is done outside the Gathering Together. Our problem today is not the absence of conviction for sin in our church services– it is that there is a mixture of sinners in the congregation of the righteous (Psalm 1: 5–they shouldn’t even be there) along with ‘the righteous’ that don’t have ENOUGH of the Presence of God to bring conviction!

  47. Teshuva Dec 12th 2012

    Thank you for clarifying your answer.
    Teshuva is my post name.
    I think my initial response was that I read your post in the wrong light, and so after thinking on it a bit, I realized a few things, and thus made the statement that I owe you an apology.

  48. Richard Savage Dec 12th 2012

    L. Alex, my heart is with you there; the role of the Body in assembly has been changed dramatically, and to no good.

    The answer to Andrew’s question has preoccupied me for several years: being now outside the church and looking in, objectivity within prayer and contemplation in this matter is possible.

    The Ten Commandments, or the lack of their acceptance and application is missing; the God given framework within which we may have a harmonious society has been withdrawn as a precursor to the showing of the man of lawlessness. Law and order, cause and effect, has been erased from our society.

    Western societies are creating their own law, it’s evolving, morphing into a nothingness. Anything goes so long as you don’t get caught. The God of Israel gave us ten Words in a moment on Sinai. Break this advice, this Godly counsel, and you will get caught! The one has a history less than a hundred years and the other three and a half thousand years. Off the wall or tried and tested? So very many have chosen off the wall! I’ve chosen tried and tested.

    Please allow me to offer an illustration here: for twenty five years I was a High Anglican, a neo-Roman. (before you jump on me with bolts of thunder and Scriptures galore, I’m long out of it.) I was born and raised within the certainties that denomination offered, one of which was, there is a consequence to sin. And sin was closely defined. There was a framework, a structure, rooted deeply in the Decalogue, which gave meaning to life, and the conduct of every stage of life.

    The worship and honour of Jesus was at the heart of this. (We didn’t do much with the Pope!)

    This is what I miss most from those first twenty five years of life. That framework within which to live. No other denomination, church or group has anything like it now. The closest I’ve come is in synagogues! How shaming of Christians is that?

    Now, being out of church for twenty years, that framework from childhood is so desirable. Similarly, working for myself, I no longer have the disciplines of the work place to guide and discipline me.

    Without this Biblical framework within which to live, anything is possible in society, most things acceptable, well, sooner or later. We write the rules as we go along. The majority rules, and the majority, as Churchill said, is always wrong.

    So, what’s the answer to the question?

    Begin with the Ten Commandments written on our hearts, not on tablets of stone. That’s our gift of God as Christians. Yet having said that, I refresh a post in the last thread: lay prostrate before a Holy God, set down all that is us, our righteousness, our opinions, ideas, works … cease from it all and simply ask, what is they will Father, that it may be done in this life of mine.

    Haven’t we been praying this in the Lord’s prayer all this time?

    Tevye, in Fiddler on the Roof, looked unto the Lord God and said, ‘we have the disease, so what about the healing, ha?’

    Friends, we have the question, what about the answer?

  49. Richard Savage Dec 12th 2012

    Teshuva, we should all be in teshuva, shouldn’t we?

    What’s in a name? Much already.

  50. Well Andrew, I think the real problem is like you said, no one preaches on sin anymore and therefore the Holy Spirit cannot convict people of it so that they see a not only a need for a Savior but to appreciate and love the Savior for what He has done for them.

    I have spoken to many that think meeting needs for people is the gospel or Jesus meeting their needs like healing or getting a debt paid is why you come to Jesus. I call this the “Jesus is your Sugar Daddy Gospel”. We’re pimping Jesus instead of hanging people over the flames of Hell because of their sins which are many.

    Now I will throw this out there but is it any wonder that the vast majority of pastors in the USA today that line the pulpits came from this kind of preaching and never step on toes? I like what Dr. Kent Hovind once said, “they need to go get an honest job picking peaches or changing tires”. And now we got so many unbiblical movements in the church that are so far from scripture including the New Age Movement, Ecumenicism, and so on. I will stop now before I go into preach mode.

  51. Barnabas Dec 12th 2012

    Jesus Himself as the Living Word approached the situation various ways in different contexts. Bread and yeast. Good fruit bad fruit. Sin uses roman letters so is it better than Hebrew or Greek etc. The issue is that Christ is presented , The Holy Spirit enhances it , the Father is honoured.

    Does this lie existed east and west of the Greenwich Meridian, and where English is spoken ? Does this disconnect come from territorial spirit teaching angle thinking. Jesus relates to the person as physical,emotional,mental, spiritual, volitional at a minimum which at varying levels can give over 1,000 combinations of difference between two people. Commonality sin and created in the image of God. A tension of framework.One phrase created the world in God’s mercy and grace He has spoken for 4,000 years to bring His world back.

  52. austin hellier Dec 12th 2012

    What I find is that, with many Christians, Satan has one ‘big sin’ in your face – it’s like someone who gets a black balloon and blows it up so that you can’t see another 5 or 6 ‘smaller’ sins hiding behind it.

    When the big one ‘blows up’ (eg: is exposed and dealt with,) then the others can be seen and dealt with too. Even with God’s people, the concept of sin is warped and twisted out of all proportion. People life defeatist lives and holiness is a concept that is alien even to some of us… Preaching sin needs to be balanced with God’s people having a handle on what it is and its dire consequences.

    Austin Hellier

  53. Daniel Dec 12th 2012

    Amen – very true.
    Often today THE LIE is presented in the “self-esteem” gospel. Jesus said to take up your cross and deny self and follow Him – to love God and others, not ourselves. Those who say that “self-esteem” is most needed are putting the focus on man and excusing the sin of self-serving.

    Sondra: I have to disagree with you. Jesus did not say He was “the Way, the Love, and the Life.” Love must be our motivation to serve God, but THE LIE does not reject love – it simply removes the truth out of it. We cannot love God and sin (John 14:21;I John 2:4). Without holiness we cannot have a relationship with God (Heb 12:14). Jesus came to remove sin, so that we could come to God and know, love, and serve Him.

  54. Jo Sappenfield Dec 12th 2012

    There are so many wonderful comments that I have read on Brother Andrew’s article on the dominant lie. As I see it here, the TRUTH is being seen from several angles-that shouldn’t have to be pitted against each other in order to be true. The preaching of the gospel–the good news–carries the accompanying conviction that compells from the hearer a response of humility, an acknowledgment of the part “I” have played in creating the requirement of the Lord of Glory having to be crucified in order to save me. Also, the fact that He didn’t have to do it, aids in one’s surrender. I was 9 years old when hearing the truth of how God so loved me brought the realization of my sin and a brokeness and confession of i. The forgiveness that undeniably took that awful burden from off me then flooded my little soul. Unbelief is the “sin” of the world and the sin that can be exposed and pierced by the POWER of God inherant in the the simple story that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son–that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. After that, we need to be discipled by the written Word of God.

  55. BillybonesIII Dec 12th 2012

    In my mind the sin of unbelief in the birth,death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah is really the big concern today. Legalist churchers with a long list of ‘sins’ that must be expunged are partly to blame for the backlash on Christianity today. Or, conversely, there are no sins at all so all those things that God said are not good …. are good, or so it seems in that Scottish kirk. Boys on boys and girls on girls or whatever! At least that’s what the new preacher will say.;-)
    But a blaming finger must also be pointed at a permissive society, violent and Godless television programs, movies and Godless schools and colleges and lately the promulgation of vampire and zombie bs. Where are we going?

    Or failing that, some feel-good philosophy? Islam is okay too if you hate your neighbour, if you can’t convert him- – – – well, you know how they convert people.

  56. George Dec 12th 2012

    Worth reading on this topic: Whatever Became of Sin?, a classic work by psychiatrist Karl Menninger.

  57. Evolution: death and suffering for billions of years before man appeared on the scene with an ape as his great grandfather has totally destroyed the Genesis account of our origins and the foundations of our faith.
    This is taught as fact in our schools and universities so why would our children have an understanding of SIN? Evolution and billions of years has been Satan’s most successful strategy. Thank goodness for ministries such as Creation Ministries that equip the saints with evidence that re-establishes credibility of the Bible and its historical account of the Cosmos from ” in the beginning God created … Ron

  58. Jesus gives the basic definition of sin when He is describing the work of the Holy Spirit: who will “convict the world – of sin, because they do not believe in Me”.

    Sin is a state of sinning, living other than God’s Way. “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God”

    I believe the overall lie that has made room for most others is: God did not create humans and everything else (and certainly not in six days) – all natural life evolved – we made ourselves. Self-made men!

    Most unbelievers will admit they’re not perfect/not good enough. The Holy Spirit will work as Believers live daily as Christ did among them.

  59. Whenever I hear talk of sin revival etc, i often refer back to the attached youtube link. Puts sin and revival into perspective.. oh for a spirit of repentance not simply remorse

  60. Richard Savage Dec 12th 2012

    It does seem on so many threads here that repentance is seen as the answer to both Christian ills, and the ills of the world.

    Well, the world will not repent; it cannot. We can repent, granted, but wouldn’t it make more sense to ask our Heavenly Father, through Jesus His Son our mediator of the New Covenant, what He wants, what are His terms, what are His plans and what does He want from each of us?

    It seems to me we all have differing views of the ills besetting us, and almost as many different answers, most predicated by repent. But they’re our views.

    What is our Judge saying?

  61. Sin is lawlessness(breaking God’s Law) and if indulged leads to further lawlessness or iniquity. Iniquity means you know something is wrong but you do it anyway. Iniquity means that a person thinks they can break God’s law with impunity. You can violate God’s righteous standards and still escape justice. You are above God’s Law. There are no rules nor standards to which you are ultimately accountable. This spirit of iniquity is also called the spirit of antichrist. To put yourself above God’s Law is to put yourself above God. It’s not hard to see where this goes, man becoming god. Christendom at large has embraced this principle of lawlessness as the gospel itself. They call it the gospel of grace or doctrines of grace. Doctrines of demons is more exact. Obedience is optional and sin is permissible. The church is opened up to lawlessness and is an agent of the same. Jude 4 predicted the church would fall prey to this type of gospel. Turning grace into license/permission to sin.

    This is where we can see a Jewish advantage over the Gentile as far as the background of the gospel is concerned. Previous to the gospel’s entrance, throughout the history of the Jewish race, a minority of Jews had always remained true to pursuing through faith, from the heart, the righteous standard of the law. Through this faithful Jewish perspective as a background, they could clearly see the gospel of grace could never have been construed as a license to sin. Through the Law they understood that God was righteous and required righteousness of His people and that sin, though forgivable, was not to be condoned as an attitude or tolerated as a practice. A righteous attitude of the heart and righteous behavior was always the only acceptable goal as far as their God was concerned. The gospel, if true, could only be an advancement toward God’s righteous goals in His people. The gospel could never be a vehicle of lawlessness as a faithful Jew would perceive it.

    This attitude by certain faithful Jews toward the righteous standard of the Law and later toward the gospel itself is helpful in representing the attitude of a person which the Bible describes as “one who knows God”. If you “know God” you know that you have to obey Him. It’s that simple. There are no other options. Disobedience to God will ultimately not be tolerated, even by His children and anyone endorsing this perspective is someone who lacks this fundamental “knowledge of God”. “They profess to know God but by their deeds they deny Him”Titus 1:16. Their deeds prove they don’t really know Him because if they knew Him they would know He doesn’t allow for disobedience. The history of Israel as a nation is an example of falling prey to this kind of profession of God and denial of God’s demands and is further demonstrated by their response to Jesus at His incarnation. They professed to know God but they didn’t know Him when He appeared and wrath was the inevitable result of their rejecting Him.

    God’s children must learn to obey and more fundamentally the necessity of obedience or partake with the sons of disobedience in God’s wrath. Eph 5:5-7. Do you know this??? Listen to what the angel Gabriel said before the birth of John the Baptist “He(John) will turn the hearts of the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous” Luke 1:17. Very simply stated, the heart attitude of a righteous person is that they want to obey God. A righteous person wants to obey. That is their desire. Any indifference to obedience to God is an inclination toward unrighteousness and puts one in jeopardy of judgment.

    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him 1Jn 2:3-4

    Sadly, many of God’s children believe in Him but they don’t “know Him” because they have been taught that they don’t have to obey Him while in the gospels Jesus is constantly telling us we must obey Him. The gospel has been leavened by this corruption of lawlessness as they have had it presented to them.

    Now, the Man of lawlessness is coming but the Mystery of lawlessness is already at work. 2Thess 2:7.

    We must connect the Mystery of Lawlessness(iniquity) in 2 Thessalonians with the Woman, Mystery Babylon in Rev 17. She is the Harlot church or Harlot religion. She is the bride of the antichrist, if you will. She prepares the world to receive him through her promotion of lawlessness as God’s message. She is the true culprit in the promotion of sin in the world by corrupting the gospel and those who call themselves “the church” who accept her corruptions. “Those on the earth are made drunk with the wine of her immorality” She intoxicates the world of men with her doctrines that promote and endorse unfaithfulness to God, all the while proclaiming her love for God and her affiliation with God and her acceptance by God.

    Catholicism and protestantism both have participated in her work of spreading lawlessness as a gospel of grace. At heart, their doctrines, though at odds, are one. In one way or another, they promote sin is being acceptable to God by means of perverting the grace of God into a license to sin.

    This perversion of the gospel through the promotion of lawlessness is what is represented in the parable of the leaven. Here again it is the “mystical woman”, hiding the leaven in the three measures of meal until it is all leavened. This is “the mystery of iniquity” at work in the world through the harlot church. I believe we can identify the three measures of meal through her identification with the name “Babylon” in Revelation 17.

    Babylon appears in scripture in three distinct eras of human history. First, in Genesis 10, during the distinctly Gentile period of human history before Abraham. Second, she appears during the Jewish period of history in the days of Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezekiel. Last, she reappears in the final days of the church age in Revelation 18. I believe this identifies the three measures of meal as the Gentiles, Jews and the Church. Each having undergone the corrupting influence of lawlessness until the whole world is leavened with this corruption of iniquity in preparation for the Lawless One.

    I believe this is what we are seeing in the world today.

  62. Averyl Dec 12th 2012

    Jesus didn’t come to condemn the world but to save sinners.
    We are sinners & are still in the process of being saved.
    We are not under condemnation, though the accuser of the brethren will.

    I think many in the world know they are sinners but see no alternative because most of their peers do the same things, considered normal.

    OurGodReigns well said above that we can best awaken the concept of sin by first focusing on its resulting symptoms, – pain, disruption, misery. These are the consequences of sin.

    Pastor Wayne said we need to preach the Law to give a knowledge of sin.
    There’s a place for that, so long as we aren’t beating them with it as Sondra said.

    Terry said that preaching sin brands us as intolerant. Did Jesus preach sin?
    We belong to a holy priesthood. A priest represents God to the people and speaks to God on behalf of the people. So it’s not a matter of us & them, but we identify ourselves with them as sinners also, not exalting ourselves above them. The Apostle Paul said he became as weak to the weak that he might save some.

    Marie said that sin shall no longer have dominion over us. That’s true, in that sin has been stripped of its power to send to hell we who remain faithful.

    I knew a man of God who was addicted to alcohol & suffered tremendously, finally giving up hope & committing suicide to relieve his family & the Church of him. I assume most of you will think he will go to hell.
    I have a neighbour who does extremely wicked things, yet reads the Bible most days. She is bound by sin & cannot escape its clutches.
    I cannot preach judgement or the Law to her.
    So, DL, there is a place for loving the sinner while hating their sin.

    We used to sing a chorus that had the words –
    “There’s a river of life flowing out through me; makes the lame to walk & the blind to see;
    Opens prison doors, sets the captives free…” etc..

    Oh that this river of life would flow out from us by the enabling of the Holy Spirit!

    Ian, – AMEN to your words! likewise BradfromColorado. Preach the Cross! Don’t forget that most people in the world don’t understand why its such a big deal that a man was crucified, so were many others.

    Which brings us to the last point of my post, what NG said above, – “The greatest sin is unbelief”.
    How can they believe without reasonable facts? Nothing wrong with reasoning, the Apostle Paul did it alot.
    They need to see the evidence of our beliefs & assertions, then they can choose whether to accept or reject our Saviour for themselves.

  63. New Jerusalem Dec 12th 2012

    The religious FOCUS on the behaviors.
    God FOCUSES on the INWARD ROOT…..the heart and soul that is born wicked and “bent” “imprinted” toward evil.

    When the FOCUS on behavior is the only education given to children and adults, then ALL are set up for FAILURE.

    Without the TRUE teaching of the PROCESS OF SANCTIFICATION being taught to born again believers and the LAWS OF GOD being taught to those who do not know God ALL are set up for FAILURE.

    It is easy in today’s world to give up the “bad”behaviors…12 step programs galore; rehab; divorce helps some people to abandon “bad” behavior; daily prescription medications that bring “peace” and “tranquility”; an abundance of food that distracts or comforts one from “bad”behavior; an abundance of entertainment that distracts one from “bad” behavior.

    When a person actually LISTS the sins that are described in the scriptures……a person will realize that they are TOTALLY INCAPABLE of ELIMINATING the majority of sins with the sheer “strength” of self-control; self- deprecation;

    WHY? Because the sins that God is looking at are the ROOT MOTIVATIONS of our HUMAN NATURE. (AKA: Adamic nature; sin nature; soul; flesh).

    God is NOT looking at the BEHAVIOR of people….
    PEOPLE are looking the BEHAVIOR of people!

    GOD does not.


  64. Teshuva Dec 12th 2012

    Averyl says,
    Oh that this river of life would flow out from us by the enabling of the Holy Spirit!
    This reminds me of Moses when the children made the golden calf, and despite this darkness, God Declared Himself to be merciful, gracious, and slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness (ex.34:6-7).
    Yet with Moses though he was told to strike the Rock the first time, did also the second time instead of speaking to it. Maybe it is time to start speaking to the Rock that is inside us that rivers of living water will flow forth, and people will come and drink and taste the goodness of the Lord and be raised of their dead spirit and be able to see and hear Him, so that their lameness in their walk be healed and they can run the race.

  65. New Jerusalem Dec 12th 2012

    The MOST PREVALENT sins found in the religious who pride themselves in “good” behavior are the following:

    Idolatry of all kinds
    Self-Love (self idolatry)
    Spousal Idolatry
    Family Idolatry
    Leader Idolatry
    The worship of Knowledge (Idolatry)
    The worship of Reputation (self-idolatry)

    Now….pray tell….who is willing to preach this from the pulpit??? None who depend upon tithes and offerings for their living….because people will FLEE….NOT REPENT.

    They will flee to another “church” who tells them that these things are NOT SIN.

    Any time I mention the scriptures that describe the sins that God is concerned about, people DENY that they are suppose to overcome these things in THIS LIFE.

    Any time I mention the scriptures that describe the PROCESS of SANCTIFICATION that God wants to not only begin, but COMPLETE in THIS LIFE, people DENY IT is True and some confess that THE COST IS TOO HIGH and some say GOD WOULD NOT WANT THAT FOR PEOPLE.

  66. I think there has always been a controversy between Christians and those living in sin. In The early church it seems they had to prove Jesus resurrection – fact or fiction? the unbelieving Pharisees promoted the lie.
    I can think of others over time the authenticity of the Bible, the church falling into disrepute because of the excesses of many professing Christ’s name for starters. Today we seem to have 2,000 years of lies about the Church, sin and Jesus combined onto one page!
    As Timothy prophesied “In the last days….dangerous times… lovers of pleasure (worldly) more than God unthankful unholy “ -etc
    Timothy here rails against the ungodliness of our time and ends with the reason to adhere to scripture :-
    “That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. “

    I say “bring it on!”
    The world scene – according to scripture – gets darker and darker as we get closer to the great day!
    In the bright sunshine the light of a candle seems insignificant, in a dark room at night, you can read by it, and do your homework. Some of you like me, may have experienced that!
    As darkness descends our candle for the Lord will become a beacon of hope to those outside the Gospel A place of refuge from the growing storm .His sheep will hear his voice and follow Him asking us for a reason for the hope we have. .
    “For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.”
    So let’s not be disheartened by the slide into sin the lies, the lack of moral fortitude in Rather let’s gird up the loins and be men and women of God
    In Math 24 Jesus spoke of our time and warned “ And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
    Andrew yes it is a dominant lie, but will not succeed.! Amen!
    I believe as things worsen, the very fact that we live, breath, and move amongst them, while still living a righteous life – in every facet, coupled with the Word we speak to them will be more than enough to convict those that want to remain His enemies
    T\he word .of testimony, the Blood of the Lamb, will shine from the highest point of Gods witness to the world and when Jesus does return this Gospel; Revival, will indeed have gone to all corners of our planet and there will not be left one person outside, with any excuse.
    Pr Michael.

  67. New Jerusalem Dec 12th 2012

    AMEN to your last post! The Truth; The Truth!

  68. New Jerusalem Dec 12th 2012

    Sorry…My post was aimed at Averyl’s last post.

  69. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012


    They were designed by God for CORRECTION and to PROVIDE TEMPORAL WELL BEING TO THE PEOPLE.

    Deu 5:33 KJV – Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and [that it may be] well with you, and [that] ye may prolong [your] days in the land which ye shall possess.

    When the people SEE that the Laws of God provide their well being; THEN they will BELIEVE THAT GOD IS GOOD AND GOD IS LOVE and He desires to give them EVEN MORE for their SPIRITUAL WELL BEING for Eternity.

    The religious organizations use the Laws of God to punish people and to impart Fear and beat them into submission.

  70. Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity. That’s what my youngest son was being taught in Prep school back in the 80’s. He rejected it and was appalled, and so was I. This Prep was one of the best, supposedly,.and that’s why I sent him there.(no public schools who threw God out of the class rooms) ‘Christian’ places or home was the last choice for our children. Not so…in the sixties and 70’s, all this secular garbage floated into the ‘safe’ ‘revered’ places of learning. At least they still had Bible study each morning before class. I wondered why bother?

    My son had been taught from the Bible since he was four years old. He’s 42. He told me that Relative thinking was all the ‘rage’ by most the New Age explosion. Since it meant No one was at fault, sin ‘had’ been done away with and no taboos to worry about… Now we are seeing the result of that bad fruit. That’s also when polically correct speech and tree huggers took over, he said. The Darwin theory, and the rest I mentioned, the onslaught of satan has definitely taken it’s toll. It’s also the school system that has spurred it on.

  71. Andrew Dec 13th 2012

    “The Law is a SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto CHRIST” – The New Testament.

    As Ray Comfort so clearly shows – the Law is great for this purpose – to show people their sin that they might run to CHRIST to be cleansed.

    If we live by the SPIRIT we are not under Law. (-Galatians).

    Bless you all.

    Andrew Strom.

  72. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    If we Live/Walk by the Holy Spirit we are UNDER the AUTHORITY of the Holy Spirit Who CONFORMS us to the Laws of God and FULFILLS the Laws of God from WITHIN our hearts and souls.

    THEN we are not under the CONDEMNATION of the Law because we are FULFILLING the Law.

    FULFILLING the Law if far superior to OBEYING the Law.

  73. Andrew Dec 13th 2012

    Well said, New Jerusalem.

    The essence of the New Testament experience.

    Bless you!


  74. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Bless You Andrew.

  75. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    What a startling feeding frenzy over the sinners. I find resonance with Katherine, Gayle Payton, David, Phillip Smith and Ian. Anyone would have thought we had always been free from the shackle of sin. 3 persons, One God eternally has the honour. A sinner saved by grace is on a journey to that position. Paul the chief of sinners, yet the new sport of the righteous would seem to be pointing the finger at the sinner while is worse. So when Jesus the Living Water chose to humble himself to request water from women at the well and enter into a dialogue with her did he use the word sin immediately? Why not? Was the purpose for Himself to be known? How many people are encouraged to honour Father, Son and Holy Spirit ? I’m saddened that a God like authority is claimed by individuals to do the work of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We can only give what has been given. What I receive from the Father I pass on, In receiving Christ as the Living Word I can pass on Spirit and Truth. In relating to Holy Spirit I can learn to live the beattitudes that are an amplification through the Torah personified in Christ. Then we begin to reflect and maintain the unity that is Eternal. Paul himself warned again those that belittle grace. The Torah, the cross and grace is the gospel. Summed up in Loving and are neighbours as ourselves. Yet some preach no self to love contrary to a Father who loves us. A clear disconnect when something other than God’s view is taken.

  76. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    The sinner that is worse..
    From the women….
    Warned against
    Swap it error and delete an and.

  77. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Swap each error

  78. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    The word “self” in the scriptures is NOT referring to one’s IDENTITY….PERSONHOOD….THE ESSENCE OF WHO WE ARE CREATED TO BE.
    Your Personhood/Identity is called SPIRIT….your SPIRIT is your Personality/ Identity…the essence of who you were created to be.

    When a person is BORN AGAIN, there spirit is regenerated/restored to holiness and righteousness as it was created to be. So that we may worship God in spirit and truth.

    The word “self” in the scriptures refers to the fallen human NATURE…’s CHARACTER. (AKA soul, Adamic nature, flesh, soul)

    In the PROCESS OF SANCTIFICATION, our SELF must be denied and must die….be crucified on our own cross. Piece by Piece, our sin nature is EXCHANGED FOR the IMAGE OF JESUS CHRIST…..then it is no longer ” I, but Christ in me” who begins to MANIFEST into the world/ the kingdom of darkness.

    This work is done in us by the DUNAMIS POWER of the Holy Spirit as we come to ABSOLUTE SURRENDER of our “self” to the Authority of the Holy Spirit. ( this is not a 1 time surrender…it is DAILY…Rom 12:1-2)

    Sanctification is just as SUPERNATURAL as Salvation is.

  79. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    So New Jerusalem, is it right to say that your assertion is that the translation should be love your neighbours as you love your own spirit?
    Self-control – is this only control of the Spirit.
    So no control of the body, emotion,mind, choice just the Spirit?

  80. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    So we are transformed from the image of God into the image Christ?

  81. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Image of Christ.

  82. David Marsh Dec 13th 2012

    Charles Finney was a classic example of how an evangelist, exposing the sin in the congregations heart, can cause a revival. Nevertheless, I believe he would have been thrown off the nearest cliff quite early on if it were not for the Holy Spirit, who was empowering his words.

    Today’s Gen Y, Z, etc. who are in the thick of the godless Sodom and Gomorrah spirit, are totally a different kettle of fish.
    I think most of them are amazing survivors. They are restless, driven, and desperately seeking for some meaning and truth in their lives. They have been torn apart by selfish parenting, swamped with soft and hard porn, abusing themselves with harder and harder drugs and terrified by commitment.
    I think that they are being ripened for what God is going to do next.

    I am reminded of the many reported visions of the end times evangelists, that their countenance radiated with the love of God as they preached the Gospel to a lost world.
    It appears to me that God is going to give a Holy Spirit witness of Love and Godliness and Truth to the driest, thirstiest and hungriest generation for some real love and Godliness, ever.

    But it will be by His SPIRIT.

    God bless you all

    David Marsh.

  83. I think John 15 is worth a read : :”I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin……… If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.”
    One thing that stands out for me is in the early church, we see a group that was free from/of sin! And was meant to be kept so.
    The death of Ananias and Sapphira had a great positive effect on the whole “prosperity” of that church.
    The church is not a place where sinners take refuge, it is a place where sinners are transformed into saints – if they continue in sin they have no part in Him nor His church.
    The Church is to be taught to live a righteous, holy life free from all sin. some things which are today condoned by “ministers” in “churches “ we are told should not ever be named (discovered-found) amongst us! Eph 5:3.
    “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judges. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.”
    The only way to live a Holy Righteous life is to be filled with the Spirit (Acts 2) and then walk in the Spirit – Rom. 8:14 Gal.5:16,18,25 II Cor 10:3. Eph. 4:17. 1 John 1:7, 3:2, and thus as “New Jerusalem” pointed out “fulfill the Law” any thing less, in this age of grace, is just not good enough. Unless/until the Church gets this right – tidies up by conforming to what He says – it is wasting it’s time preaching to sinners. Let’s completely shed the filthy rags, and put on Righteousness it is His gift to us, not ever earned or deserved.

    G.b. Pr Michael

  84. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Dear Barnabas

    The Image of God IS the Image of Jesus Christ.

    For Jesus Christ is God and Man. And Jesus said ” If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.

    The Image of God that the First Adam had was “marred”…”lost” when sin entered into Adam and Eve.

    What is the Image of God and the Image of Jesus Christ?

    It is Holiness and Righteousness. It is Love, Peace, Joy, Goodness, Gentleness, Longsuffering, Faith, Meekness, Temperance.

  85. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    “Man may dismiss compassion from his heart, but God never will.” – William Cowper

    So need to relate to the Father then?
    There is nothing of the image of God in man before he’s saved?
    Man was devalued in God’s eyes?
    It is on man’s spirit that is loved?

  86. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Colossians 3:12 which says, “As God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience

  87. Ian, you made two great comments that I agree with completely. It’s the good news of the kingdom of God and the atoning sacrifice of Christ that needs to be preached. What did Jesus preach? And what did the apostles preach?

    1st Corinthians 1:21-24

    “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.”

    Jesus Christ is the power of God, and Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. The victory has already been won, Satan and sin were both defeated at the cross of Calvary!

  88. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Eph 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

  89. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Dear Barnabas

    A person’s VALUE is based on the FACT that each and every person has been UNIQUELY CREATED by the God of the Universes. There are no 2 persons who are created alike. Even identical twins have different personalities.

    A person’s VALUE is also based on the FACT that our Father loves each one of us as an individual. And if He had chosen to make only you…..He would have sacrificed His only begotten Son, Jesus, for you alone.

    The sacrifice of Jesus, the shedding of His blood, is NOT PLAN B. It was the Plan of God before the creation……

    Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit knew that humanity would become His ENEMIES and He was/is/ and always will be PURE LOVE.
    He ALREADY had His Laws and operated and lived by them…..

    Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit LOVE THEIR ENEMIES. And because of their LOVE for their enemies, they desire to PROVIDE for the WELL BEING of all, both temporal and spiritual.

    The sin nature of mankind (AKA self, flesh, soul, Adamic nature) DESTROYS our well being as a person and WOUNDS other people and destroys their well being. The sin nature of mankind KILLS and brings DEATH/DARKNESS to people.

    Therefore, to LOVE SELF/our sin nature is to PARTICIPATE with the Devil and the Kingdom of Darkness in the destruction and wounding of people including ourselves.

    If it helps any…..the sin nature/self/soul/flesh are described in the scriptures as OUR MINDS. The will of man; the thoughts and desires and emotions of man ORIGINATE IN THE MIND.
    Not only according to scripture, but Science has proven that the brain is where the will, thoughts, desires, and the emotions of man are located.

    Thus, the command to let our MINDS be RENEWED and to have the MIND OF CHRIST.

  90. Teshuva Dec 13th 2012

    Oh Yeah New Jerusalem,
    They even call one section serpent brains, and it is in the center of the brain. This part of the brain has to have Yeshua put His foot upon it and make it His footstool.

  91. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Dear Barnabas,

    Your last post Eph 4:22 confirms what are in my posts today.
    Thank you for sharing that verse.

  92. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Hmmm serpent brain….kundalini Interesting.

  93. Teshuva Dec 13th 2012

    I do not know anything about Kundalini– I just know some anatomy because of the work I used to do, so I am speaking of science finding this fact and proving God to be true. You can google it.

  94. Laurie J Dec 13th 2012

    As a non-believer, I was given a dream from the Lord. In it I was doing all sorts of terrible things that I wasn`t even doing in real life. Then the dream changed and I stood alone in a dark room and suddenly, I knew that I was a sinner, I was made deeply aware of my sin nature, and I was grieved. Then the Lord Jesus stood before me and said, “Follow Me.” I put my hand in His, and He lead through water, and I knew I was being cleansed. The people of God need a fresh revelation of their own sin nature and to become broken over it before we can even think of reaching the lost.

  95. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Oh Laurie, thank you for that beautiful beautiful picture of the Truth, the Life, and the Way.

    His HOLY PRESENCE cleanses us INSIDE…..then the outside dross drops off. Not the other way around.

    Your testimony has increased my love for Him and confirmed my faith in Him.

  96. Teshuva Dec 13th 2012

    I feel He is the only one who should uncover my nakedness as He is the only One who can cover it properly. Man opens seals that are not meant for them to open for it is He that is worthy to open the seals of my heart and reveal.

  97. ValleyAnt Dec 13th 2012

    Gazette and Barnabas, I meant to get back with you midday today, but I had a tremendously hectic day all of a sudden and it’s now almost eleven. Please use this address: [email protected].

    Gazette, from the last article, you prayed, “We walk, trusting You to place our feet on holy ground.” Amen. You asked me if I was confusing meekness (humility) and gentleness. They are two sides of the same coin and are sometimes indistinguishable. In the Bible, we often see what some call a ‘Hebraism’ which is when the same thing or thought is repeated in a different way but meaning the same or basically the same as the first thing or thought. For example, at the start of Job, God says four things about Job which are all basically the same thing but with different ‘explanations’. And the only time Jesus ‘complimented’ Himself, He chose that one coin with two sides: “I am gentle and humble (meek, lowly) in heart” (Mt. 11:29). When you read different translations, you see that those words are interchangeable. And Paul confirmed: “Now I, Paul myself, am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ– who in presence am lowly among you” (2Cor. 10:1). Paul combined that one coin (meekness and gentleness) and then called it one word: lowly. Therefore, it’s hard to fully distinguish those words; and it can become even harder when you see that words or phrases that are totally different can have the same meaning (eg. ‘the fear of the Lord’ and ‘a spirit of gentleness’– Isaiah said that that gentle Jesus would delight/MAJOR in the fear of the Lord and in it ‘a bruised reed He would not break– and ‘judgment’ and ‘mercy’). You can see the two like gentleness and kindness– both different expressions and manifestations of the same thing. God’s Word is alive, and everything returns to say the same things no matter how far each topic is from another. The Holy Spirit is the One who unfolds things, taking as little as one word, as God did at the creation and as the universe is still doing, and unfolding and expanding on it continually, even into eternity.

    Okay, time for bed. Will get back to this article tomorrow.

  98. ValleyAnt Dec 13th 2012

    I meant Barnabas: “Barnabas, from the last article, you prayed…”

    Goodnight, and peace.

  99. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    You wrote those words. I believe what I perceived, was happening, is true.

  100. David Marsh Dec 13th 2012

    To Carl Emerson.
    I would like to reply to your previous post. I think that it will resonate with you on how church ought to be. And Andrew, I do believe this is in context with how we are to combat the dominant lies of today.

    Carl Emmerson wrote;
    “Just pointing out that Acts chapters 2 to 5 records the Glorious beginning of His church. Satan clearly wanted that pure flame to be extinguished or contaminated and this was allowed to happen by Him.”
    Hi David,
    …“How do you think we can return to a vibrant biblical Christianity with conversion growth, and transformed lives ??”

    The New Testament model.
    For the sake of brevity, I would like to use an illustration scenario whereby Smith Wigglesworth is sent back by God to rebuild a N.T. ekklesia.

    Smith walks in to the room. “Let us pray” he says. The room fills and resonates with God’s power. The 10 ‘new’ members hang on his every word. Smith is different, they notice. It is not his perfect holiness that we notice so much but it is his nearness to the Lord. It is as though God is standing over him.
    Smith looks them in the eye and says. “The Lord has sent me to you, to show you the Way.”
    The 10 notice that Smith is slightly preoccupied with something else whilst he is with them. He is always listening and relaying to them, what the Father is saying to him.
    2 Corinthians 13:3 (The Spirit speaking through Paul.)
    since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.
    In this way, Smith himself is not the actual leader of the group – God is. And in this way God becomes the Head of the group through a biblical ‘leader’.
    Mark 10:42-45
    42 But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 43 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. 44 And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
    Smith serves the members of the ekklesia by dying to himself. Smith disappears to allow the Father to operate through him.
    Smith is still regards himself as an equal and as a fellow servant with the members.
    2 Corinthians
    Not that we have dominion over your faith, but are fellow workers for your joy; for by faith you stand.

    Smith is not interested in human hierarchies, programmes, pews, buildings or services.
    Smith is only interested in bringing the other members into a walking / talking relationship with the Father through Jesus Christ – as he himself is demonstrating to them.

    A human teacher and leader is nothing compared to every member having God as their teacher and leader. That is the aim of the N.T. ekklesia. The doctrine and scripture all point to Jesus and no other.

    Surprisingly, a large part of Smith’s time is spent on teaching the new members on How to accurately Locate, Access, Recognise and Discern the Holy Spirit Voice of Jesus. Smith also taught them extensively his biblical understanding of faith and the prayer of faith.
    The scripture is full of this.

    Eventually, the 10 members became 10 Smith Wigglesworths, walking with Jesus ( as His servants ) in the Power of the Holy Spirit. Following Jesus everywhere, doing His will, relaying His messages to others. They had become CHRIST LIKE.

    Because, as you said Carl, when we seek His agenda on what we should do and say, then His Power comes in to fulfil His plans. We are then ‘walking by faith’.

    It is possible to begin a genuine biblical ekklesia. The ekklesia is expanded upon in my research work.

    Carl, I hope this gives you an adequate glimpse of the biblical ekklesia.

    God bless you
    David Marsh.

  101. Good Morning from SA everyone.. New Jerusalem has the issue of the Law pretty well summed up. Well done NJ

  102. Averyl,

    Thanks for commenting on something I said. I thought I did a poor job conveying what I meant by this anyway, so thanks for the chance to maybe do better.

    You said:
    So, DL, there is a place for loving the sinner while hating their sin.

    I wasn’t meaning that we are believers shouldn’t love the sinner, while we hate the sin. Of course we love sinners! And we love them regardless if they ever repent, or not! Whoever doesn’t have that kind of love, doesn’t have TRUE love!

    I meant that WE as Christians shouldn’t continue in our own sin, saying to ourselves; “well, God loves me, but hates my sin”, as though our behavior is somehow outside of us. God loves acceptance of us is based on one thing, and one thing alone and that is whether or not we have responded to the message of the cross. I am saying that if we are in a constant state of sin and we are excusing ourselves, and saying “oh well, he loves me anyway”, we have cheapened the gospel.

    It’s all about motive, really. One man can be trapped in sin, and begging God for release realizing that he is displeasing God, and literally HATING his sins. And of course another could be loving his sin, while claiming he’s a believer. Of course only God knows the heart on this one.

    My point is that society (and the church) has watered down, and even stopped using the word ‘sin’ so much, that I wonder if people are truly grieved over their sins.

    Now to your example about the lady that reads her bible every day and is still trapped in horrible sin. See, I have trouble with that statement. I do not believe someone who TRULY wants deliverance from sin, is trapped. I believe that at the point one gives over their life to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, he/she is set from from binding sin. Otherwise what does the Word mean when it says that anyone who is in God, does not continue in sin. She may read the word every day, and she may be in a very bad situation, but something is wrong. God does not keep people trapped in a hopeless cycle of sin. There is freedom for her, and it’s not merely in reading the word every day. True repentance will set her free!

    I would approach her with love, but true love tells the truth. True love doesn’t appease sin because it could be keeping her from a relationship with Christ.

  103. Averyl Dec 13th 2012

    New Jerusalem, – Amen to all of your posts!

    Self? I hear pastors asking their people, “Tell me about yourself”. What a strange question!
    I hear of Christian teaching schools after the Sandford mode encouraging students to have confidence in themselves. Further, both a tutor & pupil have separately belittled me. What’s that all about?

    I thought our uncrucified self is carnal & selfish.
    Our redeemed self is occupied by the Holy Spirit who we must increasingly allow to control our body, mind, & emotions.

    Barnabas, – I think that if our carnal self is defiled & our concsience seared,/perverted, that God would not be wanting us to love our neighbour from that twisted thinking. So He must want us to love our neighbour from a pure heart.
    What do you think?

  104. Barry Schmidt Dec 13th 2012

    The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil. (John 7:7 NASB)

    Many people think Jesus never told the world what it does is evil. They present as lowly Jesus meek and mild who never called a spade a spade. Read this verse. Jesus says himself that this is the very reason the world hated him and crucified him- ” because I testify of it that’s its deeds are evil.”

    But was it His words that testifiiedb to people that they were sinners or it his very Presence and the fullness of the Spirit that exposed people’s deeds as evil like a invisible spot light in His presence.

    Charles Finney testified that he would say nothing but that people would fall in terror at their sins in the Presence of the Spirit. I believe Jesus was the same.

    When I am walking in the fullness of faith and grace people often tell me I have been pointIng out their sins and I have spoken nothing to them.

    May we be so filled with the Spirit of Jesus that God make people see their sins without us having to speak a word of rebuke to sinners.

  105. Please excuse all my typos, I am very tired this evening!

  106. Averyl Dec 13th 2012

    Alot of people, especially the young, are really worried about the state of the world & feel they have no hope. So their attitude is let’s eat, drink & be merry, for tomorrow we die.

    We need to let them know that these things are prophesied in the Bible, that there is hope, & we need to be prepared for what lies ahead by accepting the Truth, instead of making excuses to wallow in fear & destruction.

  107. Averyl Dec 13th 2012

    Barry Schmidt, – AMEN!!!

  108. Averyl Dec 13th 2012

    I can tell you that because my neighbour knows the Bible so well, she is always on the watchout for any weakness & tests me to the limit sometimes! She gave me a little card with a picture of chickens & broken ehgg shells on it, maybe she was trying to tell me I pussy-foot around her too much!
    My family has told me not to talk to ‘that whore’, & I’ve even had a speech ready for her to put up boundaries around myself so she’s unable to use & abuse me. But, I believe God would not let me do that as she is now trying to be a good neighbour.

    I’m reminded that the merciful are blessed & will receive mercy;
    that the tax collector who cried out for mercy in the temple went home justified, rather than the pharisee who enumerated his good qualities & thanked God that he wasn’t a sinner;
    and that it is not of him who wills , nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy;
    and that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, & self-control.

  109. Mercy and truth go hand in hand.

    We must first have a heart of love for the lost, but then we must be willing to speak the truth to them as God directs.

    The problem is that we often think these two are separate, and, according to God’s Word, we cannot separate the two.

  110. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    If we ourselves are not seperated from sin, how do we dare point the sins of others? Let Yeshua do a thorough work in us, then we will be able to see clearly. Let the plank be removed from the eye, then the speck in others will become visible; and many times ‘invisible’. ‘Come out from among them, be seperate’ also mean that we do not become one with the world in our standards, morals….
    Barry Schimdt Stated:
    Teshuva- if I hear your question accurately you are wondering how to obey Gods commands to us without falling into self effort righteousness and this falling from grace. Here is my shortened version answer:
    1. Romans 1:16-17; and 3:21-25 clearly tell us we get right with God AND stay right with God based upon our credited righteousness ALONE.
    Every divine favor, blessing, gift comes through this credited rightoesness ALONE – apart from anything in our behavior.
    ‘STAY RIGHT with God based upon our credited righteousness alone’ is working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Yeshua in the ‘Parable of Soils’ stated, ‘yet he has no root in himself’ (Matthew 13:21). What does the root refer to? It is the DESIRE . The DESIRE to stay right; to keep the garment – the imputed righteousness. And how do we stay right? Yeshua said, ‘If any desires to come after Me, let him DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS, and FOLLOW ME.’ (Matthew 16:24) Paul stated, ‘I DIE DAILY’ (1 Cor. 15:31)
    Behaviour is the outward expression of the inward work; the manifestation of the life of Christ. In Rev. 2:23 we read, ‘And I will give to each one of you according to your WORKS.’ Another place we read, ‘for I have not found your works perfect before God.’ (Rev. 3:2) So is there anything we are required to do? Yes! Dying to ‘Self’, denying ‘Self’ yielding our ‘Self’ continuously to His Spirit to be lead by Him.

  111. At what point do we just dump Christianity as being something too broken to fix, be it this sin issue, the keeping of pagan holidays and a pagan sabbath, and many traditions, depending on ones denomination, that just aren’t biblical, but are oh so Christian. Asking people to think so outside the boxes that they have been trained in is asking a lot but the chances of a revolution/revival that would bring real change to Christianity seem so remote that real biblical teaching is going to have to come from the outside and would likely, if Spirit filled/empowered, have a greater effect on non-Christians than the chronic church going crowd. I see no other way to bring the true teachings of Christ/the first century church back into this world except by starting over and forgetting about the last 1900 years or so. I know this is a tough pill for chronic traditionalist and the narrow minded to swallow but it is worthy of consideration if what you actually care about is saving the lost. Of course like the early church, those most hating you will be the former religious order, in this case, Christians. Gee, doesn’t that sound a little like prophetic warnings?

  112. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012


    AMEN…so true so true.

    Aren’t these exactly the same conditions under which Jesus began His ministry??

    The religious sects rejected Him and what He taught.
    The common people, both Jews and Romans, were those who believed Him.

    Was there a Reformation or a Revival in Judaism at that time? NO
    Only a FEW came out of the religious sects.
    The majority of those born again were the people of the world.

    There is nothing new under the sun….just a repeat.

  113. Exactly, and we have the recipe to repeat!!
    If we die to ourselves (repentance) then we must be buried in the waters of baptism and then must be raised to new life by the baptism of the Spirit. Wigglesworth new this secret, sadly many today do not acknowledge this! How then can they walk in the Spirit, live a righteous sinless life, be a witness and testimony, preach if they are not sent?
    The Lord gives us only what we preach, Billy Graham preached sin and repentance, but never told me what I must do, as Peter did in Acts! The only advice I got from B.G was to “accept Jesus into my heart by faith and go to a church of my choice” No where in the Bible do I find the Apostles giving this council to sinners! To have the blessing we must preach the whole council of God Billy Graham in his sincerity, sold me a pup, as a result I almost gave the very thought of God up.. I Thank God today for those who come what may, dared to tell me the truth.
    Pr Michael

  114. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    – Guard yourselves against the wiles of the enemy, lest you fall and there is none to lift you up.
    – Keep your mind focused in Yeshua. (You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on YOU) – Isa. 26:3
    Unless the Light (Yeshua) shine forth in us and through us, we will fail to expose the work of darkness.

  115. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    Is it written? Could it be true?
    ‘And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.’

  116. Wilton Gray Dec 13th 2012

    I have seen the impact of the teaching of evolution and believe that if people have teachers tell them this is how life started then GOD no longer has a place in their belief consciousness.

    Interestingly Ray Comfort (Ex Christchurch) uses the 10 commandments to convict people of sin. His UTube 180 degrees is a real challenge to people if they watch it right through.

  117. Jda016 Dec 13th 2012

    As a graduate student of English literature, this lie is greatly taught by professors and accepted by students the world over. There is an enormous push by universities (which Satan almost fully controls) to convert students and children to become acolytes of self-seeking, self- pleasing, and self- glorifying individualism. Morality, truth, and good and evil are nothing more than “constructed concepts” that have no eternal weight or significance.

    I literally have to pray every day I drive to my university as I am immediately attacked by doubt, lust, and secularism. Deep darkness covers the campuses and the schools of the world and this lie is mainly taught there and kids, at the age of 18, are indoctrinated into an unholy mindset.

    Sin is so strong and so prevelant in universities, that without a revival and Holy Spirit fire, children will continue to fall. If you have any inclination for Spirtual warfare, then let it be against the strongholds and powers that hold our nation’s children captive.

    May God grant revival and lasting repentance of sin in all our lives.

  118. Mark Phillips Dec 13th 2012

    Youtube video around 10 minutes ; on the absence of weighty teaching in congregations today ; do watch it one and all :

  119. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    With numerous responses for me to reply to, please bear with me as I seek to do justice to each person in turn. Conscious also that It is the Lord who should get the attention not me. The contention at present amongst all I have written on this thread would appear to the use of the world ‘self’. I note, however, New Jerusalem compliments the use of
    Eph 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

    that contains the phrase ‘the new self.

    In addition, Averyl uses the phrase ‘redeemed self’.

    A self identified separate from the old self.

  120. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Sheeja am I correct in saying you are uncomfortable with me using the word ‘perceive’?

  121. AGazette Dec 13th 2012

    Valley Ant
    You must have me confused with another article I did not mention meekness etc.

    Lord Bless

  122. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Valleyant, my perception is that gentleness and meekness, match the direction of grace and mercy.
    Gentleness being the sensitivity to what we give.
    Graceful being the guiding sense and grace being the the fruit.
    Meekness being sensitivity to withholding.
    Mercifulness being the guiding sense and mercy the fruit.

  123. Barnabas Dec 13th 2012

    Agazette, you will note that Valleyant has apologised for writing your name instead of mine.

  124. @Mark: Thankyou, for posting this clip -What the success preachers NEVER mention! -duration 10:13‏

  125. Mark Phillips Dec 13th 2012

    Nita,I am only unregenerate Gentile ; I am new on here.

    THANKYOU for responding. This thread area is lively ; so lively I thought my two posts may go unnoticed.

    Have you heard of David Pawson ? One of his MAJOR burdens is the sentimental (instead of scriptural) nature of modern evangelism. In 2003 he gave a talk on this at a Bible college graduation ceremony ; when you have time,do watch it ; it is one of the most important talks he has ever given :

    You can listen online,or download for free on MP3. Do put it into your faves if you agree it is superb ; and thereafter keep sharing it with people in your locality and online. (2 Kings 7:9 and John 6:12). Thankyou again Nita for responding ; do also put that youtube video into your faves and keep sharing it.

  126. watchful Dec 13th 2012

    Does man really have a “self” of his own beyond the physical and soul? It seems we only have either our old man (Satan) or the new man (Christ)……When Adam and Eve were walking in the Garden with God they didn’t know they were naked, then I have to ask after eating of Satan’s offering by which spirit did they suddenly know they were naked? It would make sense that it is the old man (satan) that we are crucifying and putting to death, in order to reveal the new man (Christ) in us and so that we can live through the new man Christ..? Both old man and new man are spirit. Satan usurped the rule of God on the throne of our being, he is sitting in the holy place (soul) of our temple where he doesn’t belong. I have understood soul to be the place where spirit and physical meet, so to speak? Am I understanding this aright?

    In other words man does not seem to have a spirit of his own….God breathed His own spirit into Adam and Eve….which Satan displaced at the fall with his own fallen spirit by deceiving Adam and Eve to receive of his thoughts. When we are saved God breathes His spirit into us again, we receive of the spirit of Christ….and then the battle begins between the old man and the new man we just received.

    If we are all being conformed to Christ, our only uniqueness really then lies in our gifts and calling, and to what degree is Christ formed in us, and to what degree is Satan restrained. To be one with Christ is to have our complete identification in Him alone. It is a blessed freedom to taste of freedom from self entirely…it is a return to the freedom of early childhood before we became aware of self – self-consciousness is a curse! This has to do with becoming as a little child and entering the kingdom.

  127. watchful Dec 13th 2012

    …no more SELF-consciousness, but being conscious of Christ alone!

  128. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    Barnabas, Are we solving riddles? Could you please explain the following:
    The sinner that is worse..
    From the women….
    Warned against
    Swap each error and delete an and.

  129. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    Barnabas, Valley Ant,
    Would like to know your name.

  130. ValleyAnt Dec 13th 2012

    I’ll have time hopefully later today to get back to these comments. For now, Gazette, I typed your name instead of Barnabads’ as I was in a hurry.

    Barnabas, you’re right about gentleness and meekness/humility. Meekness is in the heart (hidden); most people can only observe it when it manifests as gentleness which is more outward. However, meekness is hidden, gentleness is quiet (it’s not active and can be missed but is more observable than meekness), but kindness is the active part of the manifestation of meekness which is readily seen in actions (which is the reason for the term ‘lovingkindness’ (loving being the inward and kindness its outward manifestation)). But to simplify, it’s as you said: meekness is an inward (part of love) while gentleness is an outward just like prudence is an active part of wisdom while discretion is a ‘withholding’ (quiet) part. Well said.

  131. ValleyAnt Dec 13th 2012

    Sheeja, I don’t understand.

    Barnabas, adding quickly to what I just said, Jesus said, “Learn from Me, for I am gentle (quiet) and humble in heart (hidden).” Out of His inward humility/meekness and gentleness/quietness (Isaiah said He would be ‘quiet’, not breaking a bruised reed or raising His voice), we see Him ministering in kindness. I added that more for my sake than yours by the way; but it’s good to share what we learn with each other.

  132. Sheeja John Dec 13th 2012

    Since we are dealing with the ‘Dominant Lie’, I’ll speak about the sin in the church. Over the years I was shown how satan sat in the temple of God; showing himself as God.
    Now you know that in Revelation 13:15, it reads: ‘He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.’
    1.In the above quoted verse, what was the False Prophet empowered to do?
    To give breath.
    2.To give breath to whom?
    To the image of the beast.
    3.What is the image of the beast?
    It is the ministers of Satan, the children of Satan.
    (Those who are born of God are created in the image of GOD and when God breathed into our nostrils and we became living souls. Also know that when we are born of God and baptized with the Holy Spirit, we are empowered to be Christ like.)

    Apostle Paul writes to the Thessalonians in 2nd Thess. 2:3-4: ‘Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    1.What is the temple of God according to the New Testament?
    2.Who is sitting in the temple of God, showing himself as God?

    How does Satan operate?
    In the Garden of Eden, Satan disguised himself and used a serpent’s mouth to speak to Eve. (What happened to the serpent for yeiding its mouth to satan? It came to represent satan) He did not manifest himself as Satan. Likewise Satan’s servants appear as vessels of righteousness but their works are works of darkness. They appear holy from the outside but are wicked within, and they operate just as Satan operated in the Garden of Eden. Satan empowers the False Prophet and his ministers, to give breath (impart evil spirit) to their image to speak and do as Satan does – to destroy/torment the servants of living God.
    Remember the verse, ‘And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:14-15)
    God does weigh our actions, thoughts and motives.

  133. Near the top of the page, NG stated that the greatest sin is unbelief.

    I may have missed where others have picked up on this truth..?

    Here are the words of Jesus, explaining that this ‘sin’ is unbelief of who Christ Jesus is:

    Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    I take note that Jesus says the Holy Spirit will reprove/convict the world of their sin of unbelief.

  134. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Belief, Believe, Believers:
    “to believe,” also “to be persuaded of,” and hence, “to place confidence in, TO TRUST,” signifies, in this sense of the Word, RELIANCE UPON, NOT MERE CREDENCE. It is most frequent in the writings of the Apostle John, especially the Gospel. He does not use the noun (see below). For the Lord’s first use of the verb, see Jhn 1:50. Of the writers of the Gospels, Matthew uses the verb ten times, Mark ten, Luke nine, John ninety-nine. In Act 5:14 the present participle of the verb is translated “believers.”

    Above is the Vine’s definition of BELIEVE.

    I agree that the ROOT OF ALL SIN IS UNBELIEF.

    BUT, it is NOT designated to the WORLD ONLY.
    Jesus is speaking to FOLLOWERS/SAVED ONES.

    We have experienced and seen unbelief on this website.
    Is that why some people immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is “not saved” or ” of the devil”?
    Because unbelief is designated ONLY to those 2 groups of people?

    That is not scriptural. Look at John 16:7-15 and you will see Jesus designates unbelief to those who are saved also.

    We see it all the time on this website alone.

    A person gives scripture upon scripture to CONVINCE someone of the Truth…..and that someone does not believe what the scripture is saying.


    Jesus says so right here in John 16 to followers.

    In fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to do so…and we have seen it right here on this website.


    I believe we have repeated what our responsibility is over and over on this website ad nauseum, BUT WE DO NOT TRUST GOD THAT IT IS ENOUGH………WE MUST DO MORE!

    THERE is the unbelief that I and others have been talking about…………Not TRUSTING GOD’S WAYS…AND THINKING “SELF” MUST DO SOMETHING, ADD SOMETHING.

  135. I completely agree with Roger’s comment above… 🙂

    I take note that Jesus says the Holy Spirit will reprove/convict the world of their sin of unbelief.

    I also note with respect to some of the comments above about what decides whether we are or are not under condemnation that Jesus says this,

    Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18 NIV)

    Anyone who disagrees with Jesus is wrong…

    I also note that Paul (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) says,

    But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin. (Romans 14:23 NASB)

    Whatever is not from faith is sin…

    Anything we do which we do not do in faith is sin…

    In the scriptures which Roger shared with us the Lord said,

    and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13b KJV)

    In the Garden of Eden we chose not to trust that God had our best at heart and that we didn’t need to know the difference between right and wrong but just needed to know Him…

    Ever since we’ve wanted to know the difference between right and wrong and alteratively justify or condemn ourselves accordingly…

    What God wants us to know is Him…

    And to trust Him with our lives…

    To do everything because we’ve heard Him speak it to us…

    Jesus did this…

    Every single thing Jesus did He did because He heard (or saw) the Father speaking it to Him (the Father doing it)…

    He lived in perfect faith towards His Father…

    Even when He went through the cross…

    Love in the Lord,


  136. sylvia Dec 13th 2012

    Being now an almost octogenarian I remember when my children were born in the 60’s – the first one went to school and was taught “right from wrong” but the next two came along at the time of Doctor Spoc who taught that we must never correct our children, never mention “naughty” or “not good” to them because it would warp their tiny minds in some way. So, right from the word “go” they began to learn that right and wrong were only relative to what circumstances they were in. They could choose for themselves what they believed to be right and also what they believed to be wrong. This has progressed right through our culture since then – everyone is their own God. Parents were not allowed to correct their children, teachers were not allowed to correct children, so now we have a generation that really has no basic concept of sin.
    Only as parents, and grandparents, can be begin to re-establish the concept of what is acceptable behavior – to us – as Christians and therefore to the One we believe and trust in – WE have to have a right concept of “right and wrong” and then we can show by our actions and reactions what our faith is really based on. When I told my grandson that I would ALWAYS tell him the truth no matter what he looked at me in astonishment but he has learned to trust my word and so this is how we can teach that God, too, is to be trusted in His Word. “He said it, I believe it, that settles it” as I once heard a preacher say. And as another preacher said “what you are shouts so loud I can’t hear what you say”. When we seek only to please God, He will undertake to teach us right from wrong by His Holy Spirit. “Salt and Light” says it all.

  137. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    In a round about way, Sheeja has been telling us over and over what our RESPONSIBILITY is.

    But no one seems to “get it”.

    We are to be LIGHT and SALT in the world.

    What does that look like and how does that happen?

    People have been posting right here how that happens.
    Over and over and over people have been repeating the same TRUTH about how that happens.

    But NO, we do not want to pay the cost (as AJ HORTON has been talking about in recent days) to be SALT AND LIGHT.

    We want to talk and talk and talk about “saving the world”, because the Holy Spirit isn’t BIG ENOUGH to do HIS OWN JOB.

    If the “self” of man was able to save the world by TALKING, the world would have been saved by now.

    But, the “self” of man just ADDS to the Darkness.

    DARKNESS ADDING TO DARKNESS. And Satan laughing all the way.

  138. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    AMEN Sylvia and AJ

    When we do “the thing” HIS WAY, THEN the world will be saved.

  139. The book of Romans says that without the law I had not known sin, but also speaks of the Gentiles doing right without the law….all being the God given role of our conscience. Deep inside we know what sin is…..I was thinking about this yesterday and how we came to Christ, my husband and I. I wasn’t even listening to what was being said. The only thing I knew was that I could see something wonderful that I wanted/needed in the lives of the people that were sharing with us. They prayed,but not for us exactly, just talking to the Lord, and the Spirit of God descended in an incredible way, and we both surrendered our lives to Christ. We a;most couldn’t help ourselves. It was that powerful, the presence of God. Both of us are deeply committed believers and have always had a very strong sense of the fear of God and a hatred for sin….the weird thing is none of it was mentioned to us at the time. Conclusion for me, is that we desperately need a visitation of almighty God. What He does by His Spirit is going to be the full meal deal….I can’t figure it out any more, but keep praying for a move like that!

  140. Teshuva Dec 13th 2012

    I was shown this a while back, but not as in detail as you have presented it.
    I was made to understand that the mark of the beast was our unregenerate nature that is beastly and whatever its head/thoughts, brought forward, then the hand acted upon it. In other words if Christ is not at our right hand, the hand of authority, then the beast is. David said that he “set” the Lord before him, and he is ever at his right hand. If the Lord be for or before us, who can be against us.
    He gave me a vision of a king,like that on a deck of cards, and it was sitting on a throne, and He will knock it off its throne.
    This is why Yeshua said that satan would find nothing in Him, and what makes Him the King of kings.
    We need a teshuva of the tongue, in that the tongue is on the floor of the mouth, the threshing floor for our intents of our heart to be threshed before we speak, meaning we should chew the cud. For when we speak, we give assignment to angels to carry out our words, and they are life or death. In a lot of cases our own words judge us and come back on our own heads.
    The cross is to be in our hearts to regenerate us.
    Eccl.3:18, I said in my heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them,and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
    Na. 3:11-There is one come out of thee that imagines evil against the Lord, a wicked counselor.But the Revelation of who Christ is, and who we are in Him, is an end to the way of evil.
    There are times I read scripture and I see Him face to face, and upon seeing Him I die because I cannot live the way that I used to.
    My beast nature reads scripture one way and my being regenerated nature reads it another way.
    It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the honor of the King to reveal it. That can be taken in many ways, but the way he made me to perceive it was that it is the honor of the King/Yeshua to reveal a matter, of sin in me, and if I confess it and ask for it to be removed, it is the Glory of God to conceal it. because love covers a multitude of sins. I then feel clean and esteem His reproach greater than the riches of my old nature/egypt. He gives me grace to repent, grace to forgive those who come against me and so on and so on. I cannot forgive if i am still damaged in my heart. If I am offended at someone, then I do not have faith, yet if I have faith that He will do in someone else what He is still doing in me, why not just shine with what has been done in me that Christ be seen, instead of judging someone else, who might just be weaker. While I was sinning His life was laid down in me, but when He was planted, and grew, I then had to lift Him up. His life is ever being lifted up in me.

  141. To Believe in God is to “trust in, rely on, and obey Him” mere credence or certainty of, is not adequate, -he devils believe and tremble. The love of God is to obey him, then faith which works by love has it’s perfect work, every step in faith begins with us making the first step. we determine in our hearts, take the step and the Holy Spirit takes over moving as He wills in the situation. then God is glorified, for what is not of faith is not of God but of our own doing. This “like precious faith” is not our own it is the faith of Him who raised Jesus from the dead, His Faith! – no longer our “little faith” but His faith in us, it is the gift of God!
    When we move in this faith – nothing is impossible! Like Jesus said ‘I speak my Fathers word, He in me does the works” Like wise the Holy Spirit in us does the work of God. This is another grand reason why the church is unable to deal with the world and the sin problem, it is still relying on the “little faith” the disciples had before Pentecost, as we all know Peter relying only on this faith cursed, swore and denied Jesus. Oh that the church would awake and move from “faith to Faith”.Rom. 1 17
    Pr Michael

  142. New Jerusalem Dec 13th 2012

    Excellent Pr Michael!

    Never staying in one place…always moving from Faith to Faith and Glory to Glory!!

    Father’s Light ever increasing in us as Faith and Glory increase in us.

  143. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Sheeja John, sorry if you found that post confusing. It is my quick attempt to show the errors in my previous post. Hoping people then can decipher the correct phrase. Does that help?

  144. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Valleyant, I’m not clear as to what you are saying when you elaborate on gentleness and meekness.

  145. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Did I miss your engagement with the phrase ‘new self New Jerusalem?

  146. I think it is easier now than ever before. The problem before in years past was people still thought they were righteous. Now, it will be easy to convict of sin and they will not buy into modern religion. They will understand they are sinners saved by grace and see right through all of the crap in the church.

    I know I was so broken and such a sinner when I was saved, it provided a direct line to God. I had a dysfunctional need for God. Preacher preached politics, and I knew it was wrong. Preacher drove a Mercedes, and I wanted to puke. However, God met me because of the brokenness and the sin and revealed himself in a very real way. “Don’t let them touch you” was one of the first revelations God gave me.

    If you save the great sinners, they will change the world. They will not be satisfied with religious practice. The will find God in the fullest because they will seek him with all of their hearts. The callings of God are just rewards, as God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. They will walk in great faith because great faith comes from humility and truly understanding who God is. The will be like the centurion where Jesus was “astonished” at his faith.

    I think it the current state of things comes down to two things. Casting out the bond woman and her son because they cannot be heirs with the free, and the harvest being plentiful, but the laborers being few. Therefore, pray to the Lord of the harvest that he sends laborers. My money is on God saving a few big time sinners to answer the prayer.

  147. Sheeja John Dec 14th 2012

    Yeshua said, My sheep hear My voice. I know them and they follow Me. (John 10:27) Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers. (John 10:5)
    Yeshua speaks plainly to His sheep and the Holy Spirit witness His words to my spirit. There is no confusion. But it doesn’t seem to be that way, in what you communicate.

  148. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Wise words Peter.

    I”d like to follow with this reflection from ‘Dare to journey with Henri Nouwen’ Reflection 13.(PINON PRESS)

    Mark 10:21
    21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
    � KJV

    Learning go become empty,

    It may come as a shock, but we are often too full of ourselves, too preoccupied with our own activities and too full of our own plans and desires. Even our activities on behalf of others can often reflect much of our own need for fulfillment and recognition. And are relationship with God frequently pivots around our own prayers, needs, and projects. We are therefore persons without space and room, and consequently we lack flexibility and maneuverability.
    We therefore need to be, as it were pried loose from ourselves. Nouwen, in speaking of prayer as a way to solitude, challenges us to be willing to open our tightly clenched fist and ‘give up our last coin’. So often we receive nothing from spiritual exercises because we have not created any open spaces in our lives. We are to full. We may want to receive, but we certainly do not want anything to be taken away.
    God can hardly fill our hands with the good things of His love and grace while our hands are full with our own things. Therefore, in search for inner peace and strength, we need to learn the gentle but difficult art of relinquishing as much as we need to seek God’s empowerment.

  149. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Sheeja John, you will note that the post you found difficulty with the phrase ‘Swap each error and delete an and’. So if look at the post before you see a number of typing errors. Each line in the ‘confused’ post is a correction that corresponds to an error. As previously stated
    ‘It is my quick attempt to show the errors in my previous post. Hoping people then can decipher the correct phrase’. The last correction being being the removal of an ‘and’. I now discover also used the word ‘are’ instead of ‘our’. Therefore with careful interpretation the text as written can be understood. The confusion arising simply from typing errors needing correction. Identify my failure go proof read thoroughly before posting. Emphasising the sheepishness of making mistakes.

  150. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    And so I’ve done it again.
    Sentence 1 should read ‘Sheeja John, you will note in the post you found difficulty with the phrase ‘Swap each error and delete an and’. ‘
    Sentence 2 should read ‘So if you look at the post before you see a number of typing errors’
    Sentence 5 should read ‘The last correction being the removal of an ‘and’.’
    Sentence 6 should read ‘I now discover also that I used the word ‘are’ instead of ‘our’’
    Sentence 9 should read ‘Identifying my failure to proof read thoroughly before posting.’

    I apologise for the mistakes and accept fallibility.

  151. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Thought this link maybe of interest after the last thread on

  152. watchful Dec 14th 2012

    Amen Teshuva, I also take it that we are to look into the scriptures and apply them first and foremost to ourselves personally….they are as a mirror to ME….

    …isn’t this where the healing begins……

  153. watchful Dec 14th 2012

    Amen, love your posts Peter and Barnabas……maybe this even has to do with why God in His marvellous unfathomable, manifold wisdom allows darkness in the first place…..who is forgiven much loves much!

  154. The poem “Invictus” is a powerful poem, written by a secular author, W. Henley I believe. He said at the end of his poem: “I am the master of my fate, I am the captian of my soul”. Christians believe just the opposite. When we become Saved, Christ has complete control over us….If we give All to him.

  155. ValleyAnt
    Today’s generation are being taught they descended from a blob of primeval slime, hence they are just highly evolved animals, are masters of their own destiny and may do what is right in their own eyes -as long as it doesn’t affect overmuch the “happiness” of their “animal” counterparts! They are victims!
    Lust and violence are substituted for love and peace and used to advertise by the media a myriad of destructive ways.
    Thus the modern brainwashed world calls good evil and evil good the “man of sin” proliferates and resides comfortably between their ears!
    They have no concept of sin! God is not in their thinking because He is at best “maybe” a useful concept, the construct of man’s mind.
    This whole construct is huge lie! A last desperate through of the dice? It will not succeed!

    How do we deal with sin, when its victim believes it is freedom?
    We must promote, with all love, empathy, wisdom, fiery zeal, patience, earnest endeavor, prayer in the spirit night and day – the only alternative. A risen, triumphant Christ, coming King over all. who is more than willing and able, to transform them beyond their imagination and wildest dreams into a brand new eternal being of the purest eternal light in Him,They can only avail themselves of this when they begin to see the personal enormity of man’s sin/rebellion against God and are willing to die to Him. These are the thoughts which come to mind when i read Andrew,’s article above. I thank God for those who thus provoke me!.
    Pr Michael

  156. Barnabas Dec 14th 2012

    Ephesians 2:10
    The Message (MSG)
    7-10 Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It’s God’s gift from start to finish! We don’t play the major role. If we did, we’d probably go around bragging that we’d done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing.

  157. Barnabas Dec 15th 2012

    Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World

    “The principle of mass production at last applied to biology

    The danger of Mcgospelisation. Make disciples unique in Him and His image instead of clones and clowns in the name of progress and entertainment.

  158. Barnabas Dec 15th 2012

    An of course Animal Farm has a prophetic message as to where godlessness can lead.

  159. Barnabas Dec 15th 2012

    The faith of the woman that was satisfied with ‘a crumb for dogs’ when the disciples didn’t see one loaf as enough. The Bread of life is sufficient. He provides the perfect amount of manna for the occasion.

  160. Here is the link to Derek Prince’s teaching, ‘The Cross At The Center’, which is one of the best I have ever heard.

  161. Andrew Dec 17th 2012


    Some “regulars” are wondering why I deleted some comments and closed this thread early. Here is an explanation-

    Sorry to say-

    I am noticing a very big “disconnect” between regulars on the site – and those who comment at the start of a thread. A very large difference. Many ‘regulars’ who hang around the website always manage to find something to be objectionable and disagreeable about. Why such a disconnect compared to the others? The whole attitude is wrong.

    This has become a long-term problem that also manifested on the Forum. It is most noticeable when threads run more than a couple of days. Something is not right. A huge disconnect between the “regulars” and others who comment here. Very distressing. And it has been going on for a long while.

    I like having “open” comments. People are free to disagree – and do so. But when there is a certain bunch who seem to make a “habit” of doing so, it is no longer just “innocent”. It is no longer just “commenting”. It is a pattern, an “attitude”, an abuse of the freedom that is here.

    Time for some changes – and particularly closing threads a lot earlier. Sorry.

    BTW – the entire point of “conviction of sin” is to make people run to CHRIST. I made this very clear in the article. And it is why ‘conviction’ has always been at the very heart of all true Gospel preaching. It makes people run to CHRIST to be CLEAN.

    God bless you all,

    Andrew Strom.