-extracts by J. Lee Grady

I believe God showed me He is sending a wave of His Spirit to bring reformation.

More than 10 years ago, I had the most vivid dream I’ve ever
experienced. I told my wife about it the moment I woke up because
it was so profound. The scenes are still etched in my memory.

I dreamed I was standing inside the Vatican. Keep in mind that
I’ve never been a Catholic, and I’ve never visited Italy. But in my
dream, I was in an ornate hall decorated with marble columns
and a fancy paved floor. I walked over to a huge, arched window
where I could see a panoramic view of Vatican City.

Suddenly a huge wave appeared on the horizon. A tsunami was
coming. The wave got closer and closer, but I did not feel panic,
even though I could hear people running and yelling as they
prepared for the impact. I stood near a wall and braced myself.

When the wave hit, the palatial building began creaking and tilting.
Antique tables, chairs, candelabra and statues began sliding to
one side as the floor moved. Chandeliers were hanging at odd
angles. Within minutes the floor was perpendicular to the ground
and more furniture came crashing down. The movement continued
until the floor became the ceiling. More religious icons, statues
and paintings fell and broke into pieces.

In my dream, I did not feel anxious about this catastrophe. Nor did
I ask the obvious questions: How could a tsunami reach that far
inland since the Vatican is almost 20 miles from the Mediterranean
coast? How could a tsunami turn a huge building upside down?
And why was there no water anywhere? I knew in my dream that
what I had witnessed was a spiritual event.

At that point I heard a commotion at the other end of the hall.
When I got close enough, I discovered a group of Catholic nuns
and priests who were praying in the Holy Spirit. They had their
hands raised and they were worshiping God fervently, as if they
had experienced another Pentecost.

The atmosphere was spiritually charged. Yet, as these people
prayed, a man dressed in ornate religious garb began to shout
angrily at them in Italian. He was obviously not happy with the
way these Catholics were behaving. This upset me, and I began
to rebuke him. I was speaking in my prayer language, so I didn’t
know what I was saying. But I knew God was rebuking the leaders
who were opposing His work.

At that point, I woke up. And I felt the Holy Spirit say to me: “I
am going to turn the Catholic Church upside down.”

I believe a great shaking is coming to the Catholic system, and it
will have both positive and negative impact. God is not pleased
with man-made religious structures (in any denomination) that
hinder people from knowing Him, and He is serious when He asks
us to tear down the idols we have created to take His place. In
the end, God always judges idolatry.

On the flip side, He also cares about the millions of people in the
Catholic Church who call upon the name of Jesus and who desire
His presence. For them, the coming wave of God’s power will
unleash a new hunger for the Holy Spirit and God’s unadulterated
Word. As corruption is exposed and structures are shaken, I
expect to see Catholics around the world experience a 21st-
century reformation movement. Traditionalists will fight it, of course,
but dead religion is powerless when faced with genuine spiritual
awakening. Young reformers from various nations will challenge
the system and say, like Moses said to Pharaoh, “Let My people
go” (Ex. 5:1).

I know there are many of my evangelical brothers who have written
off Catholics as heretics, and they leave no room for redemption
or reformation. They’d rather see the whole system crash and burn.
Perhaps they forgot that we have our own idols, sex scandals and
institutional corruption, and that we need a spiritual tsunami to
turn us upside down as well. I’m bracing myself as I pray. Send
the wave, Lord.


Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on June 13th, 2013 at 8:36 am.


367 Replies

  1. Andrew Jun 13th 2013

    I hope Lee Grady is right.

    -Andrew Strom.

  2. Marilyn Crow Jun 13th 2013

    There is a move in the Catholic system where the main obsticles to joining with the Protestants are removed. We will see very soon a move to change their system of the mass (the main obstacle) & related activities, to works of self uplifting & social progess. Thus working towards

    – a movement to peace,
    – an equality & equal distribution of wealth,
    – end of the arnament race,
    – end of patriotism, nationalism,

    to a utopia & millennium reign by man.

    This will sound so `Reformational,` that many will be deluded. But because many of the Protestant organisations will be headed in the same direction, hands will be joined!!!!!!!

    Thus the challenge is, `This day whom do you serve?`
    Man`s best efforts or God`s word?

    The night gets darker…….Marilyn.

  3. Andrew Jun 13th 2013

    That is not what this dream of Lee Grady’s seems to be about at all, Marilyn.

    It seems to be about a genuine wind of the Holy Spirit blowing through – greatly affecting individual Catholic people. And the traditionalists are seen opposing this “new move”.

    So I think it is a totally separate issue.

    Are Catholics not allowed to get truly born again/ filled with the Holy Spirit?

    -Andrew Strom

  4. Marilyn Crow Jun 13th 2013

    If you desire more information check out Chester McCalley`s site
    under Revelation 23 (the number in his series). Before Chester speaks a man gives the information of the changes to the Catholic system as he has just been to their theological college for a seminar.


  5. Marilyn Crow Jun 13th 2013

    I agree Andrew about the Lord moving upon all Christians, Catholic or not. However these changes will look to many people as though the Catholics are coming on board with the Protestants.

    We will see…..Marilyn.

  6. fabakary Jun 13th 2013

    Why not ? It is not about the system, it is about the people. Jesus is after the people. He died and was resurrected for people. He seeks the lost. He came to call sinners not the righteous to repentance.
    Our problems is we have put things, above the people. We mostly start our work in the external. We say “they must first come out out of their group etc before God works in their heart, putting God in a box and trying to limit Him by our experience. while Gods start from the hearts , to bring forth the right external manifestation. To deny the fact that God can start His work in people regardless of the system they are in is great ignorance and self righteousness. It should not be debated. It reminds me in the book of Acts when the holy ghost was pour out on the gentile , and some cried something like “no it cant be, it should not be that way”. If Satan can use people in a system , the holy ghost can do better. It is not about the system, the battle is in the hearts of the people . So while the holy ghost will be working in the hearts of some in the systems , Satan will also be doing His work. The same is applied to the protestant and those outside systems. It .It is a heart Issue, and neither Satan nor Christ is limited by where a man goes or do not go. Both Christ and Satan works in the heart. Forget about those that will tell you can only find Christ in the wilderness. If you do not find Christ revealed in your heart, it is all vain talks , vain shows, emptiness and do not be surprise to find the most christless attitudes in many in such company; because where pride reign , Grace will be absent.

  7. ALL believers are ‘Catholics’ – members of Christ’s one and universal Church. Read your Creed!
    Lee Grady (and commentators here) would do better to describe what they are speaking of in this article as the ‘Roman’ church. As well as being less confusing, it also helps remind us that it is (as indeed are all our denominations) an essentially ‘human’ construct.

  8. Andrew Jun 13th 2013

    Fabakery – I like what you said-
    “Why not ? It is not about the system, it is about the people. Jesus is after the people. He died and was resurrected for people…”

    Very true.

    Blessings to all

    Andrew Strom

  9. But why now? What of all the souls deceived over the past 1500 years? We do not take our stand on claims of visions. Colossians 2:18-19. We stand on the word of Christ which for 2000 years has exposed all heresy and false teaching. Colossians 2:4-10; 3:16-17; Ephesians 4:14-15; 1 Timothy 4:1-16; 2 Timothy 4:1-4. Romans Catholics can read these teachings for themselves instead of trusting their priests and other teachers, along with their Scripture-contradicting traditions. Matthew 15:1-14.
    Dinkum Downunderwriter David

  10. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal of the 70s was also expected to change the church. It did not. We saw it go two ways. Some left the Roman Catholic Church (we were among that group). However, the majority of folks became more devoted to the Roman Catholic Church and still are to this day.

  11. Paul FC Jun 13th 2013

    As an ex-catholic I can honestly say there are many catholics who are truly seeking the Lord and many who are truly born again and that includes Priests and Nuns. However I believe this is in spite of the nature of the institutional church of room.

    The catholic church is the whore of babylon and will be destroyed, therefore there can be no restoration for the institutional church. Individual catholics will be saved out of this and I believe the Lord in His Grace and Mercy will do this in greater numbers before the end. This is what I believe the dream is all about.

  12. Johan Laubser Jun 13th 2013

    I do not get it! Why is it at all necessary for us to know what is written in the Word so that we can understand the heart of God? If God is going to “force” us to accept the truth, why worry. We can only stroll along until such a time that God will shake us(or Catholic church) to obedience, that is if we take this vision as the truth. As I understand it,even the very elect will be deceived and only Jesus’s sheep will hear his voice and the road is narrow and few will enter…

    It seems all are “safe”..

    Then how can you rebuke someone in your “tongue” if all you can do in that “tongue” is giving praise to God through the Holy Spirit for you do not know what you are saying for you do not have the capability and knowledge of the vocabulary…? I say: Be very careful Church!

    I am sorry, but I am lost for words…

  13. Paul FC Jun 13th 2013

    Sorry there was a typo in end of first paragraph in my post. I meant to say………………. However I believe this is in spite of the nature of the institutional church of Rome (not room)

  14. Could your vision be a representation of Rev. 17 & 18 ?
    Blessings, Ken<

  15. Actually, the Holy Spirit has used “tongues” in my past ministry to cast out demons…. I have not seen any restrictions for the use of tongues only to bless. In fact the brother who was being delivered was using demonic tongues at the time. That was 40 years ago and Bill is a very strong Christian today and still a good friend. It is a good story, but long. Blessings, Ken<

  16. Johan Laubser Jun 13th 2013

    Praising God (bringing in the Light) will cause demons to flee. At that stage you are not ON their level, but IN a Holy Spirit level!

  17. I believe God has started shaking the nations. It is going to accelerate exponentially. Not even Catholics, but also other ‘Religious people’ will be shaken and they will find the true Saviour. This will soon be seen by everyone all over the world.

  18. margaret Jun 13th 2013

    Every time I read about issues regardiing Protestants v Catholics writte by people on this site, I am reminded of my ancestors who fought in Ireland and England on both the RC and Anglican and Puritan sides and whatever else ( God help us when does all this bickering stop! Please God! ). Protestants seem to think that they have it all as much as Catholic were once taught to believe..I have been praying for a revival in the Catholic church …..there is a lot of deep- rooted anger and violence which needs to be exposed, there is a whole lot of ignorance of the struggles of Catholics and ex Catholics who need a revival of truth…I believe this dream is of God and it is timely because all idolatry is going to be exposed so that God can build His Own Church made or living stones.PLEASE LET US HAVE OUR DAY BECAUSE GOD WANTS US; HE WANTS THOSE MILLIONS OF CATHOLIC LIVES SAVED FROM DOMINATION BY CHURCH DOCTRINES AND A PRIESTHOOD OF CONTROL, SODOMY,HARLOTRY, INCEST ,SEXUAL ABUSE.. AD INFINITUM…HE WILL BRING THE TSUNAMI….HE ALREADY IS….

  19. Calvin Jun 13th 2013

    Yes, no one is beyond the reach of God’s grace and redemption. Yes, the Lord is able to reach into the deepest recesses of darkness, speak and totally deliver. Those who have ears to hear will respond and come out into the liberty and freedom that’s only found only Jesus.

    There is a HUGE difference between Catholics as people and the antichrist system they are part of. Lets not make the mistake of believing that the paganistic foundation on which Roman Catholicism is built upon can be redeemed. There is only one foundation that has been laid, at that is the Lord Jesus. No system, no priest, no catechism, no icon, no rosary, no prayer to dead saints, no pope, no allegiance to papal infallibility and no allegiance to Roman religion has any power to save.

    Jesus said in Matt 24:2:

    “… you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down….”

    The religious system set up by the religious leaders in Jesus’ day was directly opposed to the living truth and His gospel. Paganistic religious systems using “religious” language to camouflage itself will be thrown down.

    May God give grace to those millions of Catholics inside this paganistic system and grant them the grace to hear the true gospel and respond.

  20. The Roman Church cannot be reformed because of one factor, its dogmas. A true move of the Holy Spirit will be one of removing its members out of the door; a denunciation, repudiation and total rejection of Rome, it´s hierarchy of hirelings and heretical teachings (The Catechism).

    However Rome will NEVER give up her grip on people without a fight. In the past she declared war on all those who stood against her by raising armies to invade and destroy all opposition. The first crusade was raised in Europe against those who opposed her dictatorial control. It was NOT raised against the armies of Islam.

    The Pope recently announced a multi-million dollar refurbishment programme of her church buildings. In other words this old prostitute’s wrinkles are showing and she’s starting to look her age. So she’s about to have a complete make-over. Botox, hairstyle, new wardrobe, boobjob, buttjob, manicure, pedicure– the works! (Much like Cher did) However, this woman of Rome will ALWAYS remain the same– a diseased riddled old whore!

  21. We need the same tsunami to flow over the church at large because it is just as steeped in tradition as the Roman church. Those traditions have kept the church in a state of lukewarmness and ineffectiveness. Watch this powerful video on Rev 3:

    Reformation is desperately needed throughout the body of Christ.

  22. MargieInOz Jun 13th 2013

    The church is embracing catholism believing we should get rid of the doctrinal differences in favor of unity. Darlene Zschech of Hillsong welcomed the Pope at World Youth Day 2008 in Sydney Australia saying it was their opportunity to SERVE the Catholic Church. This is absolute heresy and will never bring RCs out from wicked bondage. Catholic priests claiming to be filled with the Holy Spirit still celebrate the Eucharist with it’s evil teaching keeping Jesus forever on the cross. Grace can only be received by a RC by receiving the sacrament from a priest. Excellent work by Keith Green “The Catholic Chronicles” for anyone who thinks the church can have ANY association with Rome. The time is here when sound doctrine is replaced with mens ideas and the faith once delivered to the saints is compromised for the sake of unbiblical unity. Tsunamis may come but God is calling his people out of the RC church, strange fire churches and the world. He rescued me.

  23. I agree with Johan,
    I am lost for words here too. Rebuking in “tongues” and not knowing what is being said???? I have known “charismatic Catholics” who speak in jibberish, or tongues, and are all ramped up on the “spirit” yet they continue in the false religion of RC !
    Makes no sense. The true Spirit who leads to all Truth would deliver them out of the system of RC.

    Dreams and visions , that seem to indicate that they are from The Lord??
    The Word gives us all we need to discern and to know what God will be doing.
    I am always very cautious about all these new ” moves of god” that are happening .
    Amen. Be careful church!

  24. Millions of catholics [who remain in the RCC] according to Grady are followers of Jesus..??..!!.

    My question, if they are true followers of Jesus and The Word, WHY are they still in the RCC..???. How could a true believer continue in such spiritual darkness, worshipping idols, trans-substanciation, works based theology.??. Yes all have sinned and come short, yes we continue to sin, but we do not remain in that lifestyle once we have been freed by the power of the Holy Spirit. A little like saying, I love Jesus, and worship Allah.!!.

    Come out of her My people and be ye separate – Holy – set apart.

  25. watchful Jun 13th 2013

    I would just encourage us all to lay down our emotions, our thoughts, our careful observations…..and ENQUIRE OF THE LORD and be looking in His word. We serve a God whose ways are unfathomable, who sends the rain knowing that in addition to a useful crop it will also grow thorns and thistles, His wisdom is not like ours………

  26. The tithing and clerical/laity system embedded in His ekklesia is from the Catholic church which is based on the Old Test.. One can only hope if this dream is true that the reaction from His ‘body’ would be to dismantle their false system as well.

  27. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    Marilyn C. has something that is very important by Word, “Will I find any faith.” Just what is the number of the ‘few’? …Moving on: I was a preacher’s kid: A Catholic priest, the dude, not a saint, tried the get a message to my dad, the pastor of a church, by almost running me down, an act, a threat, while I was riding by bicycle home from the Spanish Mission/School area across the tracks where the Catholic Church had its position. The priest and company did not like the Spanish Mission Church because it was free/ no charge started by the church members and others dad pastored. The Catholic leaders ministered to the poor and was taking most of whatever the poor received daily in the name of God, in the name of Jesus, in the name of Mary, in the name of Peter, in their own name, in the name of the Big Many. Reading church history, it is a wonder to me any of us are saved. Satan is truly a Shrewd dude. When is the last time you saw a Disciple of God, a follower of Jesus Christ minister?

  28. missbridgewater Jun 13th 2013

    The lord also said some scary things concerning the false prophets and teachers and dreamers and those with visions. I would be real careful to put alot into these, as we are also told who is prince of the world with Gods permission, we are being tested. I really doesnt look like any “new revelations” are in store, only those brought on by the enemy. Pentecostals just love their gifts, powers, and “new revelations”

  29. missbridgewater Jun 13th 2013

    Anyone that has any knowledge at all about Jesuits already know what they stand for, how evil and dangerous they are, actually lying and waiting for the right time to seek and destroy, how they infiltrated govt. and all the religions in disguise as “converts” to bring in the nasty unclean thing that has so many “fooled” about their so called gifts and powers.

  30. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    I have found Catholics wanting to know the Word for themselves. Their families, by Traditions …trying to keep hold of the Catholic line most all other Jesus Believing churches do. The Catholic Churches here in the United States are changing so as to entertain along the lines of the other main line Christian Churches are doing. The system requires numbers and money and they call it spreading the Gospel with no power of the Believers. The Believers are held mute by Christian beliefs here in this country for most part. Ask God about this!

  31. Thank you for posting. I grew up Catholic and was returned to it by the Lord at a time when many were bashing the Catholic church. I am a spirit filled born again woman. I was very confused but knew it was God.
    To my surprise, God exposed me to spirit filled, power filled Catholics. They were loving and serving God and using the gifts that came down at Pentecost. Also, the reverence for God and communion in the Catholic upbringing in my day was amazing. (This was in the 70s and 80s). Never saw anything like it.
    I am still a spirit filled born again woman who attends a Bible church.
    I have stayed connected with charismatic Catholic prayer groups and watched them grow in grace and truth.
    I had a dream two years ago that I was in a Catholic classroom and I was trying to evangelize but would not be heard. I knew the door was closed. I was fine with that because I was tired.
    But, I have seen doors fly open and closed since then, (across our country) in respect to the Catholic church.
    I am excited to read about your dream, as I know full well that this type of thing is coming from my first hand accounts the last 15 years connect with the Catholic church.
    If you didn’t grow up in it, and God hasn’t called you to it, you have know idea what He is doing. There are born again spirit filled people in the Catholic church and MANY more who want to be but don’t know it’s for them.
    We must love, share, respect and care for our Catholic brother’s and sisters and humbly offer them more exposure to His truth and power. These people LOVE JESUS VERY MUCH.
    Thanks again for sharing your dream.

  32. angelos Jun 13th 2013

    Thank you Lee Grady, for sharing your dream and Andrew for posting it.
    I was raised Catholic, became a Spirit filled Believer many years later. I pray that all of us who profess to be Christians would not allow Denominationalism to keep us from believing for and looking toward an end time revival of all believers. Suffice it to say, that if a tsunami is on its way, I pray that it washes over all of us. Removing the blemishes and wrinkles that can be found in every church, in every Denomination. Brothers and Sisters, it takes more time and effort to pray for those in need of Truth than it does to judge and find fault. Oh, that we would choose to answer with Prayer! My hearts cry is for unity among God’s People.

  33. missbridgewater Jun 13th 2013

    Yes marylin is on to whats been showed to me. I see a Beast in the RC and an “image” of it, pentecostal/evangelicals? Time will tell.

  34. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    The Main Theme is Look for Jesus …that is where our Redemption is. He is coming soon, one way or the other, so to speak ……….’so to speak’ is a line I use caught in hills of North Carolina ….where I learned the Stomp before I surrendered. I have found loving others is not easy …..remembering ‘Only one returned to say, Thank You Jesus for healing me.”

  35. 100% Zululander Jun 13th 2013

    Amazing. When the discussion is about the church, like the last few threads, everyone trashes it how bad it is & must get out. Now the catholic church is trashed & everyone must get out. Unbelievable.
    Someone shares a vision that they think could be from God & thats also trashed. then someone asks the biblical question “when He returns, will He find faith on the earth” Well I say certainly not on this forum.
    Get a grip guys. I have great hope in god in spite of ALL the bad news & planning anyone makes in the RC church. It is the very reason God may move upon it in a special way.
    Remember…..whatsoever things are good, lovely, good report etc etc ….think on these things.
    Have hope in God.
    Thanks Andrew, I love this kind of encouragement because I know God can do it.
    Yes Lord, Please do it….a real tsunami in the RC Church. These unbelieving Christians will then see that you are God

    I have generalized, not all are negative.

  36. Elaine Jun 13th 2013

    I was raised RC…..went thru RC schools. Either we are saved by grace or not. The RCC does not teach that we are saved by grace alone. They teach works righteousness. They teach you are born again at infant baptism.
    You cannot have it both ways…………grace alone or works added for you earning righteousness. The RCC teaches a false gospel………….please don’t defend it……………most are lost in the RCC and need to be shown the truth.
    Many were martyred to defend the faith………grace alone and scripture our final authority (the RCC doesn’t teach sola scriptura). Please, their deaths were not in vain.

  37. Total deception and humanism at its finest. I am sorry but this article is just a tiny piece of a the puzzle of the one world church to come, the great whore of Babylon. The Catholic church, from its inception, has been an enemy to every true believer. I myself was raised in an Irish Catholic community in the West Coast of Scotland. All of my education was Catholic. My generations of Catholicism goes back as far as is recorded. So I am no stranger to Catholicism and charismatic Catholics who remained within the Catholic church and became more Catholic than ever.

    The very foundations of this church is rotton. The notion that Catholicism will be ” reformed,” is preposterous. Millions of Catholics have ” come out from her.”

    What we are actually headed towards, as unlikely as it seems, is a joining of all religious forces in the world, Islam, Judaism and Catholic and Evangelical Christianity. The name of Jesus will be the first casualty in this unholy alliance. This whore church will be the deadliest enemy of the true saints on the earth. As unpopular as the teaching is, persecution is coming to the saints in every corner of the globe soon.

    Those who oppose this one church that will come under the guise of love for all men, will be violently opposed and persecuted. Even if you only know a little church history, you will know that the religious have always been the deadliest enemies of God’s children.

    Brother Andrew, I fear for your discernment brother. Perhaps you could be clear on your own opinion of the article and just how you see the Catholic church? I wonder, if we could turn the clock back 500 years, who would have remained in the Catholic church and who would have counted the cost and been found outside the walls with the reformers? ………………bro Frank

  38. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    Zulu ..has something also that needs Attention. We can minister to claiming Christian right under false ministers noses. Sometimes we are trouble makers as was Jesus. The idea is Love others the best you can at any and every moment. I do repent, I must repent when I am confronted by the Holy Spirit for their is concern for others salvation right where we find ourselves. We have family, some nuts ………and I know I am thought of as “off” BUT anyone truly available with the Spirit in Them as a Temple part of God, will suffer, not really in the Click. What we speak, the words we speak must be of the Spirit, the Word …not of our own doing, our own thought in the battle of our minds. We are servants, not a member of any other than The Church, The Bride to be, separated out from the world even in the Christian Churches, the Christian Families-As-Usual. Our First Love, our devotion, our mind, our hearts are set on Jesus Christ, our husband, and Christ alone.

  39. nolomolistari Jun 13th 2013

    Mark 9:38

    Humans have a tendency to confuse cultural conditioning with what is right and proper…and yet, what does God require? Deuteronomy 10:12 or Micah 6:8 or Matthew 22:37 or Galatians 6:2.
    Who is your Lord and your Master? How do you become His slave and His heir? What was His commandment and do you follow it?

    We can debate on the merits of venerating saints and the Bible; respect doctors of the Church and great evangelists; heed the Pope and Martin Luther; but the Body of Christ only has one Head.

    I have been on ‘both sides of the fence’ so to speak, and have seen both with each other’s eyes. What incompleteness in both the houses.
    Perhaps it’s only a working of the great sifting, and in the completion of the Age we will see the parts that each are missing are to be found in each other.

  40. missbridgewater Jun 13th 2013

    Ive learned enough to trust in the HS THAT LEAD ME TO ‘BELIEVE” in the one God sent in the first place without doubt or question, that was and still IS the hs, any other seducing spirits are garbage to me, no matter what they hand out, or how “good” they make one feel. I wouldnt name myself or claim ANY denomination of the “world churches” Beast sytem that will and is calling already I wonder “in unknown tongues” for the stinking dragon to come, I wouldnt chance or risk it. I just look at the AOG and so many penetcostals and think to myself Look at them, confusion they have the gold dust, the so called glory clouds, the tongues, every kind of fleshy manifestation one could imagine and when you hear them speak in the sancuaries, they ARE STILL SINNING and have the same issues and problems the secular world has, so what in the hell has any of their supernatural things actually done for them, NOTHING>

  41. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    Do we have any fruits inspectors out there? I recently wrote message about all stand-up pastors for Jesus must be ‘Inspectors’. Any army has inspectors. Go and inspect any and all members home and cars, etc. ……….and so on. I do think the numbers would fall. Do any of you know, back in the olden days that some churches required repentance of sin or don’t come back? Yes, they were Fruit Inspectors.

    The message I wrote had no response whatsoever. One secret I will pass on to you. First we must get the board out of our own eye. Love birds, that is a daily walk in Love. You know, keeping the House Clean, your yard, your car ….yes, love your family, your neighbors.

    Where I attend at times, a claiming pastor I like, under his breathe …will say as a funny (BUT not) “Here comes trouble.” when I open his office door. I bush it behind me and keep moving. No, I listen but do not do as they do as leaders; not of the same mind and they have been in ministry a long, long time.

    Short shorts leaders in main services for the youth, Short shorts leaders in Vacation Bible Schools …….the leaders minds are lost, their hearts on works of the mere church man. And the senior minister preaches the Word. There is a difference in preaching and living Word. There is a false holy spirit at work in the churches-as-usual. The error of come as you are is in church fellowship BUT not in Followship in Obedience to the Respect of God. No one seem to Fear God.

  42. As I’ve gone through most of the responses above, a number have spoken against a reformation in the RC “church.” This, however, is not what Lee Grady has stated. If his article is read carefully, you’ll find that he speaks of a coming reformation which is similar to Moses’ cry of, “Let My people go.”

    The Protestant Reformation was such a move when Martin Luther and others were taken out of the RC system.

    I believe it is entirely possible for God to once again move within the hearts of people under the RC banner and remove them from that Babylonian system.

    My own father, raised RC, was born again by the Spirit of Christ as an adult and left the RC system.

    I also experienced the “Jesus Movement” of the 1960’s – ’70’s and witnessed some who came out of Roman Catholicism, while many stayed within it. I believe much of the reason why many did not leave was due to a lack of teaching of the WHOLE counsel of the Word of God. The truth of God’s Word is contrary to the fundamentals of Roman Catholicism.

    It is a different world today than then – both in the world and in the Church. I believe that God is raising up an army of His children who have discerned the fundamental truths of salvation, discipleship, and His Church. It is quite possible that this preparation by Christ is to be able to minister truth to those whom Christ may lead out of the RC system.

    Let us pray for these ones within that system who do hunger after God and who long to live in the fullness of Christ, that they would be brought to the Truth and depart from that Babylonian system.

  43. MARGIE IN OZ, thank you for the information you presented. I would encourage all to the things you’ve referenced.

    For the benefit of all here are two helpful links:

    God bless you all,

  44. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    Interesting move re: Prophecy ..End Times
    Russian lawmakers approve anti-gay bill in 436-0 vote

    Russia’s lower house on Tuesday passed a bill to forbid people from “spreading propaganda on non-traditional sexual relations” to minors, in a move that has been decried by rights groups as an attack on the country’s LGBT population.

    Many claiming Christians murder their babes. My wife is a minister to those seeking help one way or the other; most not married and young.

  45. missbridgewater Jun 13th 2013

    All of it makes me sick, what ever happened to the faith we had in him as a child has, and this is what he wants us to have, so im leaving all the other additions, subtractions and supernatual garbage where it belongs, to be thrown into the pit with the one thats already been judged. The candles, the clothes, the gold and silver decor, including church alter rituals, practices, the cruisifixes, the art work of things in heaven, hell, and all images created in our minds and by men are just that, MANS creation. I dont care if the pope has a jesus and mary dancing on his head and pentecostal evangelicals talking babel while they fall slain at his feet, I sure wont be there, and will continue to share this with all I can, and the NEW COVENENT, not the old that brings death, so so so many are in one way or another still trying to drag us back to the old, shame shame on them.

  46. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    missbridge living water: It makes God sick also. He will throw up and out all the Christian Religious stuff – the works gone to self so as to follow Satan instead of Honor by Honest Hearts-the characteristics of Jesus (many Christian walking dead not knowing they will be cut up), Jewish zeal for God that means nothing. Romans at the beginning of Chapter and as one with Paul we pray for sanity, Peace. However, when the Jews cry out “Jesus the Messiah”, Jesus comes and we will be with Him. Jesus has a Rod and we, the saints, the Royal Priests are apart of that Rod.

  47. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    Romans 10 missbridge

  48. Linda from Minnesota USA Jun 13th 2013

    First of all, THANK YOU, Andrew for posting this article. It was not only a huge blessing to read it, but it was also a confirmation for me. How so? Because in the past few months, I’ve felt lead of the Holy Spirit to pray for a revival for the Vatican. As for the Tsunami hitting the Vatican, I truly believe this will have a worldwide effect, especially in predominately Catholic countries around the world. The reason why I say this is because a while back when visiting Montreal, Quebec, I strongly sensed in the Spirit that the Lord was moving in this Province like a huge Tsunami. May the Lord’s will be done in His timing.

    Blessings to you, Andrew and everyone on this site.


  49. Very Interesting comments.
    Raises more questions than answers.!!!!!!!!!!
    Jesus came to bring SALVATION not a denomination
    Rebuking in UNKNOWN tongue? How did the writer know he was rebuking ??

    There are Christians in all denominations..

    The LORD know those who are His.

    So pleased.

    Thanks Andrew for your comments


  50. Lightning Storm Jun 13th 2013

    Angelos; Fabakary; Watchful; Nolomolistari

    You have shared EXCELLENT words that are needed to be heard.

    Thank you and AMEN!
    Some people have read this article by Grady and yet have NOT READ IT.

    The word REFORMATION is not the same as revival and redemption.

    Read about the previous Reformation and you will understand the difference.

    REFORMATION is NOT about changing an ORGANIZATION.

    noun \ˌre-fər-ˈmā-shən\
    Definition of REFORMATION
    : the act of reforming : the state of being reformed
    capitalized : a 16th century religious movement marked ultimately by rejection or modification of some Roman Catholic doctrine and practice and establishment of the Protestant churches


    This is what MUST come FIRST before there can be Repentance and Revival.

    There has ALWAYS been PERSONAL REVIVAL through out the AGES.
    Every historical REVIVAL has been a GROUPING OF PERSONAL REVIVALS each person under the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT’S conviction of sin that BRINGS Repentance and Salvation.

    Rom 2:4 KJV
    Or despisest thou the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the GOODNESS OF GOD LEADETH thee to repentance?

    2Cr 7:9 KJV
    Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a Godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

    2Cr 7:10 KJV
    For Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

  51. Margie in Oz said:
    “The church is embracing catholism believing we should get rid of the doctrinal differences in favor of unity. Darlene Zschech of Hillsong welcomed the Pope at World Youth Day 2008 in Sydney Australia saying it was their opportunity to SERVE the Catholic Church. This is absolute heresy and will never bring RCs out from wicked bondage.”

    I agree Margie – big problem. This is very sad to hear about Darlene Zsech. in Shout to the Lord is probably the most important prophetic verse in a song out there. The Lord showed me in a dream one time that the verse: “Let every breath, all that I am, never cease to worship you” was a prophecy to the church from him.
    About 15 years ago I had a dream wherein Benny Hinn was visiting the pope. In the dream the Lord said, “Kathryn Kuhlman committed sexual immorality with him, Benny Hinn committed sexual immorality with him – I am looking for people who are not going to do this.” I doubt that meant literal sexual immorality. It leaves people in religious bondage. Just because we see Christian leaders doing it does not mean it is ok with God.

    I had totally forgotten about that dream until he Lord reminded me of it a few weeks ago in another dream with respect to another Christian leader. I am so far removed from the church I don’t know what this person is or isn’t doing, but he got a blank stare on his face when I brought up that old dream to him. Praising popes as men of God and joining catholic organizations is not alright with God. It is paganism just as the politics is paganism, and it leaves people in religious bondage.

  52. 100% Zululander Jun 13th 2013

    Don’t you all think wev’e hammered the rc church & others enough now & we all understand they are bad?
    Now, what are we going to do about it? that’s the real big question.
    Is God wringing His hands about it not knowing what to do?
    Why doubt? Just for a minute imagine that God did send a tsunami into the rc church. JUST IMAGINE. It boggles the mind. What a glorious time it will be. And it is entirely possible. Why? Because GOD IS IN CONTROL, not us thank heavens, well be killing each other with our self-righteousness

  53. Suzanne Griffis Jun 13th 2013

    I was so excited to read this. I am just a regular person that the Lord sends places to pray, etc. at his bidding. In March I had a dream that I was flying to SPAIN, (so I went) and in the dream I was in a large piazza in a small fiat–with a man who looked like a monk and I was trying to wake him up–much more to the dream–after much online research when I came home, I found that it was a place in Naples, Italy with a catholic church in the background. The dream was very detailed, too much to write here, but a few years ago, I prayed through the Vatican and John Paul
    11 was there. Instead of flying to Spain, I cruised to Spain and met one of the captains on the ship that I was able to get to know somewhat–he is from NAPLES and is building a house there. I would love to hear from J. Lee Grady–if he wants to email me, please give him my email address. [email protected]. I have been several times to both Spain and Italy and just saw that Benny Hinn will be in Madrid Spain the end of the summer.

  54. Gordon Neil Jun 13th 2013

    God the Father is a jealous God. He is Holy. I do not think we can grasp what that Commands. We are not our own!!! We, the Royal Priest have be chosen! We are not the ones that chose. By God’s conditions of His own Blood, we do not do Christianity the way we want to and get by with it. The Works of our Rewards is found in our Eyes on Jesus being purified by the Fire of God. There is false fire, false signs and wonders today in Christianity. God is the Shepherd and any claiming to be shepherds, prophets, ministers, members belonging to Him will not run their own show or anyone else’s and use Gods gifts as he sees fit. Lucifer was a Believer. Satan believes in God. He knows Jesus. BUT Satan’s brand of belief became twisted singing ‘My Way’ and today he is mad in his belief of God and is spiteful, a con because he knows his time is short. Jesus Believes in God the Father and we are to follow Him in all our affairs.

    God is not Santa Claus! Christians, men cannot lie the Holy Spirit, trampled the Blood of Jesus Christ and get by with it. The higher you think of yourself, the more accountable you are! That is a real reason to remain humbly honest before God.

  55. The lukewarm, Americanized Christian church will also flip and burn. In fact, all corrupt and false churches should burn and be destroyed as the Lord will then gather His remnant out of mystery Babylon.

    Meanwhile, lukewarm Christian think it’s so mean to desire corrupt and false churches to be overthrown.


    Wake up and recognize the fine sounding lovey-dubby teachers that keep you embracing the whore, ’cause they have more love than the rest of us.

  56. Barry Schmidt Jun 13th 2013

    I would be more inclined to watch for a marriage of harlots BETWEEN the Roman Church AND the trinity of the false prophetic movement , the counterfiet 24 hour prayer movement (both out if Kansas) and nascent dominionism theology being promoted by the “Apostloc Reformation” (Peter Wagner and friends).

    This will lead to a renewed modern Papacy – the new apostles, prophets and “kings” will become the new “PAPACY” and a global revival of ROMANISM will be marked by false tongues and lying signs and wonders.

  57. Paul FC Jun 13th 2013

    Pastor wayne and Ali. You are both spot on and I concur with everything you said. I am an ex-catholic and am staggered that many see the RC church as another Christian denomination. It most certainly is not, it is a cult and should be considered on the same lines as Mormonism and Jehovah witnesses. Catholics who are saved need to come out!

  58. Barry Schmidt Jun 13th 2013

    I am always very reluctant to appear to “trash” other faith groups. The apostle Payl never trashed other beliefs rather he used them as a stepping stone to speak of the gospel to them . Even though he was deeply grieved by all the idols in Atens he addressed them without PUBLICALLY trashing their idols but rather with live and respect said, ” I can see that you are very religious.”

    But PAUL pulled no punches with false brothers, false professors of Christ and false teachers within the Christian community.

    If Roman Catholics want to claim to be the true church if Christ then they would open to Paul and Peter’s (whom they claim as their furst Pope) open rebukes!

    Why has it become offensive to call a spade a spade?
    The great idol GOD OF TOLERANCE is tolerant of everything and everyone EXCEPT intolerance of lies in the name of Christ.

    We as New Covenant recipients are not under the Law but we still fulfill the Righteousness of the law do we not?
    Whatever happenned to fulfilling the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THESE TWO OLD COVENNAT LAWS?
    “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. (Exodus 20:3-7 NKJV)

    What “catholic” who names the name if Jesus would remain a “catholic” if they took these 2 commands seriously??


  59. Barry Schmidt Jun 13th 2013

    “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. (Exodus 20:3-7 NKJV)

    What “catholic” would remain a “catholic” who took these two commands seriously?
    For that matter what evangelical would remain a money loving idolater who took these two commands seriously.


  60. Isn’t it necessaire that they(the catholics) first become born again?

  61. Barry, well said…..I lived through the Catholic charismatic movement and the *move of the Spirit* in many mainline churches at that time, and although I am sure there was some harvest, years later, I wondered how many of the people had actually been born again, or if they had just added tongues to the rest of the religious repertoire. Those that left their idolatry and moved on (and there were some, but not a lot) were those that truly came alive to Jesus…..I don’t know what to make of this dream. Certainly we see in the scriptures God revealing Himself to the devout but ignorant, like Cornelius…he was a God seeker but knew very little of the real message of Christ. God sought him out, and I believe that He does do that. Sincere seekers will find Him….sincere God seekers among the Catholics will also find Him, if this dream is true. Even in those days, the cost of leaving the system they were raised in was simply too much for many of them.

  62. BARRY SCHMIDT, It is good for you to stand up for the Word of God and claim that born-again people who affiliate themselves with the RC institution should leave.

    However, I urge you to act with the Spirit of the Law as well as the letter of the Law, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life (2 Cor. 3:6). There may be born-again brothers and sisters in Christ who may still align themselves with the RC institution.

    Perhaps it may be because no one has presented the truth of Scripture to them. Perhaps someone has but has been they’ve done so was in such a manner (e.g. self-righteousness, obnoxiously, etc.) that the message was not accepted because of the way it was presented. Perhaps, their whole life has been steeped in the RC cult and the work of the Holy Spirit has not completely brought them to a place of death to it.

    If the Spirit of God begot you as a full-grown, mature son of God, then you are truly blessed and in a very unusual position. For many who are truly born-again, however, there is a process of growth and development in Christ which gradually pulls us away from self, sin, and the world – and anything else which may not be of Christ (e.g. a false church).

    We can see this demonstrated in numerous places in the NT but I refer to Ephesians 4 where Paul tells of the wonderful gifts Christ has given to His Church so they may grow, mature, be protected from and reject heresies, and come into the fullness of the ministry Christ has for each of His children. He then goes on to admonish the believers to put off the old man and put on the new. Then he gives examples of what that looks like:
    – let him who stole, steal no more, but labour with his hands in honest work that he might be able to give to those in need;
    – let the one who speaks corrupt things, stop, and instead speak grace for the edification of those who hear;
    – put away bitterness, anger, clamor, evil-speaking, wrath, and malice and instead be kind to one another, and tenderhearted (having empathy and compassion) forgiving one another, even as Christ has forgiven you.

    Can you imagine? Christians who were still stealing? And Christians who were still speaking evil and perhaps even taking God’s name in vain? And heavens forbid, Christians who were angry, unforgiving, and impatient with fellow believers?

    Much of the pastoral epistles were written to assemblies of born-again believers who were not living the fulness of the Truth in their everyday lives. Hence, Paul (under the direction of the Holy Spirit and with a heart of love) wrote to bring correction and exhortation to leave the sin they were still exhibiting – to put off the old man and put on the New Man in Christ.

    So, my brother, I urge you to be patient with our born-again siblings in Christ who are still within the RC institution. Pray for them. Teach them the Truth in love and compassion, working with the Holy Spirit in leading them to a fulness of the Truth if you should have opportunity to do so.

    But, please do not lambaste them simply because they haven’t come to the fullness of the truth to which you have come and are not living in the fulness of the Truth as you’ve been given.

    God bless,

  63. I apologize for my poor grammar in this last post.
    The second sentence in the third paragraph which reads in part, “Perhaps someone has but has been they’ve done so was in such a manner . . .” should read, “Perhaps someone has told them the truth but has this has been done in such a manner . . .”

    My editor was on break at that point.

  64. Lightning Storm Jun 13th 2013

    Cees… Excellent point of wisdom dear friend.

    Oh Barry….I hope you don’t think PROTESTANTS who claim to be “christians” have no idols.

    The definition of the word IDOL, is IMAGE.

    An IMAGE does not have to be of the solid touchable type!

    I can think of many IDOLS in the church organizations.
    Many of which are the same IDOLS that the world/kingdom of darkness worships.

    2Ki 17:33 NASB
    THEY FEARED THE LORD AND SERVED their own gods according to the custom of the nations from among whom they had been carried away into exile.

    Spousal idolatry; family idolatry are rampant….
    Education idolatry; Career idolatry; Ministry idolatry; “keeping up with the Joneses” idolatry; Physical appearance idolatry; etc etc etc

  65. Lightning Storm Jun 13th 2013

    Good word, Pastor Wayne……which can be applied to ALL mankind.

  66. wineskin Jun 13th 2013

    Grady’s vision is right on the numbers, but some of you really need to take another look at it…

    It is NOT a vision that includes the “reformation” (or revival or restoration) of the Catholic church system in any way—it is a clear cut message about some very serious damage being inflicted upon that system’s source of power to the point of turning everything upside down. This purging is huge and happening, yet Christians everywhere seem strangely oblivious to what is heading right their way.

    Yes, this vision clearly, and rightfully, points itself at the Catholic church-system, but don’t kid yourselves—a spiritual flushing of the Mother of Harlots is going to have a huge impact on every single one of the Mother’s thousands of badly infected daughters and every single Christian who is in bed with them. Not a single Christian will be unaffected by the huge spiritual backwash the mother of Christianity has earned for herself and her thousands of wayward daughters.

    So be it.

  67. chas351 Jun 13th 2013

    Frank McEleny

    same.. i was brought up &* raised RC..served as an alter boy many years> when i got Holy Spirit Saved.. my eyes opened to the extent when i walked into a catholic church and saw the stature of a man on a cross .. i physically cried and ran out.. God spoke to me very cleary that Jesus was not on the cross NOW but Rules & Reigns in Heaven and that is how we are to Worship Him. for the first time the Bible came ALIVE to me. From that day 29 years ago i have never been back RC parents were VERY ANGRY at the time, I burned all idols and books in our house and tore down the crucifixes on our walls. I renoinced & repented of the idolatory and man worhip & kneeling to false idols,,,, “come out my people!!”

  68. Suzanne Griffis Jun 13th 2013

    Right on, Pastor Wayne! I think we, as Christians, have a very limited view of the Grace of God. In the early 70’s, I was in a Full Gospel Business Men’s meeting in Ontario, Canada. My friend and mentor invited Father Jean Paul Regimbald as a speaker. His personal testimony was that he received Jesus and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (yes, with tongues) kneeling on the kitchen floor of a parishoner as she prayed for him. He was also a psychiatrist. He began to have a burden for Souls and preached many places including witnessing to Prime Minister Trudeau. He brought many into salvation by Grace (not of works). In this meeting, he was asked to pray for Israel. (He was in his RC priest garb). He said, “I feel led to pray “in the Spirit” for Israel–does anyone mind?” As he began to pray in tongues a small group in the meeting of around 500 became very excited. When he was finished, a man got up and explained that he was a professor of Aramaic at the University and these were his students with him. The professor said that Jean Paul was speaking in perfect Aramaic (which he did not know) and translated what was a wonderful prayer for Israel. Don’t limit God!!

  69. There is a move in the Catholic system where the main obsticles to joining with the Protestants are removed. We will see very soon a move to change their system of the mass (the main obstacle) & related activities, to works of self uplifting & social progess. Thus working towards

    – a movement to peace,
    – an equality & equal distribution of wealth,
    – end of the arnament race,
    – end of patriotism, nationalism,

    to a utopia & millennium reign by man.

    This will sound so `Reformational,` that many will be deluded. But because many of the Protestant organisations will be headed in the same direction, hands will be joined!!!!!!!

    Thus the challenge is, `This day whom do you serve?`
    Man`s best efforts or God`s word?

    The night gets darker…….Marilyn
    which promotes works and humanity
    and will once it is law of land
    be made illegal to say JESUS is only way or to say REPENTANCE is NECESSARY.
    so few can see new age is all over the place.
    so few. I do belive more catholics will be coming out from
    under the babylonian system.
    thus in the dream we see a few, wHO Came oUT
    NO man can worship idols , pray to dead saints,
    or mary and continue in CHRIST. if they do and really want the truth………….IN TIME they always COME OUT, not remain in.
    THIS we must understand.
    someone who is an ex muslim and comes to the TRUE CHRIST
    dont remain in muslim doctrine.
    THUS the same for roman catholic system.
    when ONE reallly seeks the truth.
    this is all about a ONE WORLD RELIGION
    and this sensual spirit is leading many back into
    systems of men, in order to get us focused on false peace
    uinty and good works…………STEAD OF FOCUSING ONLY on CHRIST.
    then donig good works, etc.
    be careful about this. not all men interpret their own dreams correctly. and i know BETTER, than to JOIN HANDS
    for though many hands be joined…………… will come to naught.

  70. Lightning Storm Jun 13th 2013

    AMEN AMEN AMEN, wineskin.

    Thank you Suzanne Griffis for that encouraging and uplifting testimony.

  71. Andrew Jun 13th 2013

    My view is that I hope Lee Grady is right.

    I hope a “Tsunami” from God hits the Catholic church and a whole lot of Catholic people get truly saved/ filled with the Holy Spirit – even against the opposition of their “traditionalists”.

    An awesome dream – and one I hope comes true.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  72. the good news is i do believe the spirit is at work
    among catholics………..TO BRING THEM OUTTA
    the ENTIRE system and into GODS SYSTEM.
    all else avoid,

  73. i like this
    i witness with this
    This fits with my expectations
    even though I’m a classic Pentecostal to the back teeth!

  74. Please listen to what Marilyn previously posted –



  75. Barry Schmidt Jun 13th 2013

    Friends- Rebuke well taken and received gladly .
    I agree that Jesus is no respecter of institutional or religious labels, brands or names and that people within said institutions need time and grace to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus and need some time to process the truth in order to make informed descisions about staying it leaving the institutions they were in when they come to faith in Jesus.

    However ( and a BIG HOWEVER) loving our brother turning from blatant idolatry is the HALLMARK EVIDENCE of belonging to Jesus and being truly regenerated by the Spirit of Jesus.
    We NEVER do anyone a favor by not saying clearly to people :
    “trusting in the priests, the dead saints, the church, the Pope, the Virgin Mary is IDOLATRY!!! If you don’t renounce those idols you are rejecting God, His Son , His Spirit and His gospel.”

    If someone is walking towards a cliff that will end up in Hades how u it living to say nothing ? How is clearly warning then being self righteous? How is blowing the trumpet just as loud and sounding the alarm just as ear piercingly as possible being anything but loving and Christlike?

    Jesus said to the Jewish sects, ” unless you repent you will all likewise perish!”

    I am sure some in this post would rebuke Jesus for being narrow, self righteous and unloving- saying-

    “why Jesus you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!”

    And me thinks Jesus would turn around and say to you, ” get behind me Satan for you do not have in mind th things if God but the things if men.”

    Idolaters by any label- Catholic, Protestant , evangelical, Pentecostal or reformed or no name brand- WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

    Call me what you will- it won’t make any difference to the idolators when in the lake of fire ! What will you say when they ask you why you didn’t warn them straight up???

  76. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    You make your points well, Barry.

    Except that this is about saving the PEOPLE – not the “Institution” of the Catholic church – or it’s dogmas.

    And if God wants to fill such seekers with His Holy Spirit and save their souls – who am I to say “No”? I will gladly welcome it.

    Bless you!

    -Andrew Strom

  77. Marilyn Crow Jun 14th 2013

    I have a friend who was `Pentecostal,` & is now `Roman Catholic.` She wanted to get back to the cross when trouble hit her church group. I tried to reason with her but it ended up arguements. Because she is like a sister to me & visa versa, we are on this journey to see what is God`s truth.

    She believes the so-called Catholic prophecies of `The Warning,` which have been saying we are now in the Middle of the tribulation. She already has built her refuge in a container on a friends property & has planted fruit trees etc.

    To help her see the truth I have written down what God says will happen between now & the tribulation & the Global Government & she has done the same. So as we journey, God`s truth will show.

    Each person is different & God by His Holy Spirit shows us how to reach people in deception where ever they are. As Watchful keeps pointing us to – ` What does God say?`

    Watching & waiting, looking above……Marilyn.

  78. Marilyn Crow Jun 14th 2013

    Now about the so – called `Tsunami.` The fact is that when a Tsunami hits, you would want to be up on higher ground – obviously the Lord Jesus Christ, knowing His truth. And as we walk close the the Lord (thank you Watchful) we will see the tide going out before the tsunami comes in.

    What do we see retreating, drawing all together away from the truth? Why yes, the great all encompassing, feel good, sensual, (thank you Randall) One World Religion.

    No Christianity? No gospel? No Biblical truth it seems . All we have left are dreams!!!!!!

    I don`t think so. Give me God`s pure word everytime.


  79. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    The Bible is full of dreams and visions. Absolutely loaded with them.


  80. Marilyn Crow Jun 14th 2013

    That`s so true Andrew & God explains what they mean. Now I realise you have a great heart for the lost as I have also, however I am very careful of giving people false expectations that are not in His word. It seems to me this dream is priming people to receive a change in the Catholic arena as from God when what is on the horizon is man`s deceptions.


  81. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    In other words – the devil is allowed to move, but God is not allowed to?


  82. I welcome this too; thank the Lord for His promise that He would pour His Spirit upon all flesh in the last days.

    There is a difference between ecumenism, where denominations attempt to become One as a religious political force, to a spiritual awakening to those who are hungry for Him, no matter where they attend.

    I recall when young in the 70’s, Catholic nuns were beginning to give bible studies and were being filled with the Holy Spirit. I know so many good Catholic families who are faithful to God’s commands, and are loyal, and maybe ill-informed and misguided and trust the priesthood too much, yet fear God and have a heart for the poor, sick, etc. I believe that each individual who has come from a denomination that deviates on some points from scripture, still believe that God reigns and is in control, and many are hungry for Him.

    Praise God for His faithfulness!!

  83. Marilyn Crow Jun 14th 2013

    Yes, I was just going to say, `Can`t you have both? I hear someone say.` Yes but this `dream,` only shows one move & as with all counterfeits it is very hard to tell the difference.

    Having been with my friend on her journey for awhile I have listened to teachings from various Catholic speakers – many who have been Protestants & they have spoken very well, with much truth. And there has been a great move in the Catholic area in the young over the past 15 years or so.

    What I am pointing out is that this `reviving` is going on behind the scenes & the counterfeit will come in with much promotion by the media etc.


  84. jda016 Jun 14th 2013

    I interpreted it in a way that means God is going to truly save Catholics and bring them out of the institutional Roman church. Grady said, “More religious icons, statues and paintings fell and broke into pieces.” I see this as God breaking the idols in Catholic’s hearts (how else could they truly be saved if their heart is full of idols?).

    The dream has absolutely nothing to do with defending Rome. In fact it shows a complete catastrophe falling upon it, and yet God calls people out of it and saves them.

    Praise God!

  85. What I’m reading here are warnings not to be partakers of institutions who have idols, twist scripture and to not stay in membership to denominations that turn clergy into demi-gods. And this is good scriptural advice.

    But I also believe that UNTIL a believer from any church is drawn by the Holy Spirit, which might include being filled with the evidence of speaking in tongues, that person won’t be able to discern the deceptions or traditional/ritualistic/dogmatic ways of His church. When the Lord opens our eyes through His Spirit, some of us take longer to put it all into perspective, while others see the damaging effects of the church and leave right away. It’s easy for the healthy and those accessible to transportation and time to study scripture to berate those souls who have been traditionalized for decades.

    There are the elderly who have no other chances to ‘change’ churches, let alone re-integrate into a new denomination, there are people today who are bed-ridden and live in hospitals, children who have no way to leave a church, as they have to follow parents – so many souls that can’t make their own decisions because of circumstances that are out of their control and even so, the Lord Jesus invites them to be His, and can fill a believer with His Spirit, WHICH is in the Word of God; it says in the Word that it is a PROMISE for us and all our children.

    The Lord cares for those who have been indoctrinated all their lives and haven’t had the time to search scripture like the Bereans, because they had to house and feed their 12 children and worked out in the fields all day. So, in spite of some never having the ability to read or write, or have time to exercise spiritual discernment, or not having the pleasure and blessing of meeting christians who would teach them about the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit, our Lord Jesus still loves these and makes concessions for those who are in those circumstances, and chooses to fill them right where they are, in their desire for him, while even praying in a field!!

    These can be Catholics, Jews, Muslims, atheists, all, who have a thirst to know who Jesus really is.

  86. Trying to be hopeful Jun 14th 2013

    Though I am not Catholic and most definitely do not agree with most Catholic doctrines and practices, I’m inclined to concur with Lee Grady on this.

  87. Claudia Jun 14th 2013

    But why now? Because time is running out that YHWH will strive with man. The dream seems to indicate that “man’s authority” objects to those who have connected via the Holy Spirit, without the intermediative “authority” of the Pope! The Redeemed wherever they are found will be brought out when the indignation passes over.

    YHWH told Noah that after 120 Jubilee Years He would not strive with man (Gen 6:3). (Meaning He is through striving after that time…the period of Yashua’s Grace is over….and His Millennium Reign, Alpha and Omega, King of Kings, iron rod rule for 1,000 years will begin with the Vial Cleansing of the earth of tares…cleansing the sanctuary.) Man’s imagined authority is over….including the Pope’s!

    120 Jubilee Years are 6,000 years.

    According to this, than, the Hebrew year 6,001 will see redeemed mankind receive immortality. The rest will have to go through the Wrath, and those that survive (if they are not tares) will enter the Mellennium with their flesh bodies. Believers/Redeemed are changed in a twinkling at the last trump.(7th in Revelation). This goes along with the math in Daniel, according to how I have understood it.

    The Hebrew year 6001 sees the start of the Vial Cleansing at the beginning of the next 1,000 years of man’s time, One Day in God’s time, the 7th Day of YHWH…Day of the Lord…the Millennium 1,000 years. After which our universe will be made perfect again in the New Heavens and Earth that comes at the end of Year 7000 when Satan and his followers will be cast into the Lake of Fire….for the 2nd Death.

    Some Jewish calendars have us (2013) in the 5774th year. But, rumor has it that they did not count years that did not have a favorable king or ruler, and that they did not count Jubilee years if there was no temple. I doubt that prevents YHWH from counting!

    Some counts have us in the 5999th year! Which would indicate that 2014 would be the 6000th year and possibly last year that man will be strived with. This also fits the math as I understand it in Daniel…causing the 7th trumpet to sound in the year 2015, which would be the 6001st year according to some counts. The year we may enter into the Sabbath Day of YHWH!

    Bottom line, YHWH is getting pretty fed up with man inserting himself between the Believer and His Right Hand, Yashua, Our LAMB, Savior, and Returning King!

    He will not strive with man forever…..He wants to live in PEACE with His creation.

    Strive to try hard to achieve or get something; to fight in opposition to something; to compete resolutely against somebody or something.

  88. jckliew Jun 14th 2013

    Some RCC are just getting worse……..

    This is not only in one church at the Penang Cathedral, but could be in all Catholic churches

    in Penang as similar services were held at the Immaculate Conception Church in Pulau Tikus

    where the Father carried “sar ki tua ki heoh” (3 big joss sticks) and prayed in the Chinese

    traditional style, bowing three times to Jesus “ichi khong, chai chi khong, san chi khong” and

    paying respects to their ancestors symbolised by ancestral tablets at the specially set up

    ancestral altar, complete with tnee kueh (sweet cakes)!

    Carrying joss sticks for Catholics is nothing associated with a religion but as a practical way

    of burning incense!

    This is the real 1Malaysia. The Chinese New Year Mass in the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, Penang held a special twist as an ancestral table was set up beside the main altar. The ancestral tablet was placed on the table for the people to honour their ancestors. They do this by offering red candles, joss-sticks, fruits, flowers, tea – all of which held symbolic significance.

    Oranges were blessed and given to all who attended the Mass, while ang pow (red packet) were given to children. A lion dance performance ensued in the church hall, after the Mass.

    Wish I could post the pics.

  89. WHAT MOST have missed is THIS
    THAT is a BIG CONCERN. we dont always interpert all our dreams correctly.
    I saw this instantly. NO water. YET CHRIST , the bible
    when concerning GOD says water.
    also when used in the term flood of decpetion.
    But nowhere is water mentioned, only the absence of it
    by Gradys own words.
    I believe mass deception is coming……….and
    i believe the few he saw……………represents the few
    who will stand against the false.
    i believe the tsunami, and i could be wrong,
    may be a large deception of getting ALL as ONE in unity for world peace. the bible ONLY speaks of massive falling away at the end.
    IT does however also speaks of GODS elect doing exploits
    so those few , are probably GODS elect standing against
    a tidal wave of deception. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
    is purposfully changing its stance………..
    BECAUSE they know the way the world is headed
    and they wont KEEP all that money if they dont sell out
    to this one world religion……..NUMBERS equal cash.
    numbers equals POWER to them.
    they aer going the way of different religions , and trying to bring
    all togerther…….NOT FOR THE GOSPLE
    but for GREED and PPOWER to rule this entire system
    and GET any and all OUTTA OF IT AS WELL.
    POPE francis is not a man OF GOD.
    HIS WORKS of feet washing HE DID TO BE SEEN.
    HIS is very clever, very clever indeed.
    HE speaks of peace and unity
    and talks as though the CHURCH must come back to CHRIST
    YET in his own words………………..said atheiests will make it in.
    NEW AGE IS ALL OVER IT. and what the catholic church
    begain back in the seventies
    the other evangelical movements like todd bently
    like the emerrging church, like rob bell, has ONLY FURTHRED
    quickly the decption. all are being LED INTO A RELIGION
    based on works and peace and unity.
    but preach a works based , a fellowhship of all religions mixed message. ITS ONLY GETTING WORSE
    and it will get MUCH WORSE as the time draws nigh to the end.

  90. How could a tsunami turn a huge building upside down?
    And why was there no water anywhere? I knew in my dream that
    what I had witnessed was a spiritual event

    SOMETHING aint right.
    WHY was there NO WATER.
    and cleansing of men……………BLOOD, WATER
    something aint right about this. COME YE OUT FROM AMONG

    many are being led BACK INTO CHURCHES.
    ANY OLE CHURCH. and the churches aer beginning more and more to FOCUS ONLY ON WORKS
    on self gain, on me myself and I, NEW AGE IS ALL OVER THE PLACE. GET OUT OF THEM.
    FIND YE MEN OF GOD………………..and join with them.
    ASAP………..the last hour is nigh upon us………..
    soon this world will have reached the point of
    coming against ANYTHING not about peace, unity
    FALSE LOVE…………embracing just anything that feels right.
    but remain ONLY UPPON THE ROCK.
    and WARN I SHALL………..none shall stop me from this.

  92. Gordon Neil Jun 14th 2013

    Whose is going to carry the Football …You know Harry, I paid for that pew over there where I seat every Sunday. Yes, I am a fan of the church.

    You see Gordon over there. He is not a fan, a troubled man he must be. I think we must do something about it. I think we can have his driver’s license away from him like we did Mary when she became awake. Can’t have folks seeing in the unseen like that. A smoke screen is one thing but the Truth is another.

    We are not to be in the likeness of the undisciplined children always …Babes on Milk but some of us seem so grown up.: Like get out of the way, I’ll show you how to bake a cake. We seem to love a debate and the Challenge to be the best we can be stump dumb or not. One thing I do like is to spar, back and forth, preparing for battle, staying ready for battle as warriors. I like discussions between the Beloved ….I really like hearing and talking about the Word, about God, the Just Love of God.

    God really likes us to ask! Take time with God, ask Him, listen and know His voice in the name of Jesus. Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. It is Finish! Baptized by the Holy Spirit, indwelling of God, we have His ear personally. Ask! He may say, ‘No’. Sometimes He says, ‘Stop talking in the heat of battle or the rattle.’ God has even told me to stop praying and move! My Father has no problem saying ‘No’ to me nor does He have a problem blessing me all the time, always I am Blessed Assurance. Always!

    What we say, the words we use and how we use them …we must speak the Word giving God the glory, the Word is the Answer in any and all cases. Conscious Contact with God means you are Welcome, He will tell you this Himself IF you belong to Him, IF the Holy Spirit has not withdrawn. Seek First the Kingdom of Heaven and live by every word of God. Our words have power to curse or to bless. Ask God if He really loves you! Listen!

    This is a high I can’t describe. Testimony: I ask God if He really loved me. Answer: I loved you before you were born! Friends, to this day nothing else matters …I want the love of God, I want to be made trustworthy. I am loved and I want to love others. It is tough! Yes, it is tough not to enable another. I can’t save anyone. BUT I can follow, I can obey God by His Love, His Commands.

    The in-fighting means the lack of discernment, the lack of communications with God. Rebuking, correcting has its place BUT we don’t do anything on our own is the mature man or women of God …….is the Narrow. In this Way, we are made strong! Yes, we are to grow up! The Watch, to watch out for the is a Beautiful Side of Evil in Christian Fellowship. Mature saints, the elders teach Followship First which means First Get the Board Out of Your Own Eye ……….Count the Cost before you Leap.

    Has anyone ever sat down with you, work for you – serve you personally, mentored you about, along the lines of what Count the Cost means? Did anyone caution you before you said, “I do, I will?” Has anyone sat you down to explain that salvation is ….a full time work …Getting Cleaned-up inside out and Keeping Clean and then carrying the message to others? Has anyone in the church made Disciples following the Commands of God, Mark 16:15-21. Do you really know who Jesus is by the Word revealed to you by His Spirit. It is not just a good feeling story nor a line nor a club nor a social chance.

    We have been given Power BUT most are Powerless to even stop a storm. confront a demon, call for angels. Satan is mad and he will try to con you religiously to kill you, use you by your own words, your own work, not God’s. Satan is ruler of the air, ruler of this world. Learn not to take a hit from Satan, learn not to fall in a Trap of Satan so as to be murdered. We are Mission Oriented. Yes, Stephen was stoned. That is a heads up for us! Learn to be a warrior in the spiritual realm and to know the difference. Satan, the accuser looks for an opening so as to destroys the works, the love of God and he has had great success in his opinion. I mine!

    One of the main thing Satan does is Help God in His Quality Control Department. God’s pleasure is assured. Satan doesn’t mind Christian being and staying stupid and ignorant and powerless. No, he doesn’t mind at all. BUT God gets the last laugh!

    IF you are a mature elder of the Royal Priesthood, you have learned much about the Enemy and his hate and that he just loves for us to self destruct. AA Allen. I don’t think AA ever attended an AA meeting so as to get the board out of his own eye first. Let this be a lesson to all. There are steps to being made a Disciple, a Disciple, a Prophet, a Minister, an Ambassador of God that can run the course; finish the race.

    Do you think anything that I have written is relevant? I’ve had dreams God has given me BUT folks if I told you, you would not believe it to be the Truth ……….But the jewels are coming soon! For the dreams can not be reasoned by mere men.

  93. SOME even here……………..doing just like the ole catholic church
    the NEW age doctrine, says…..
    and men just wanna hear what they wanna hear.
    cause many are bein lied too……….and DONT EVEN KNOW IT.

  94. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    Good grief.

    Please READ the dream and WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS before commenting.

    Many are attacking it for things it DOES NOT SAY.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  95. Am just reading posts and all very interesting.

    I notice that some, maybe a few in the last blog posts throw speaking in tongues in with some fringe-group pentecostal groups that see manifestations of gold dust, and odd signs and glory clouds and such.

    Scripture doesn’t speak about glory clouds and gold dust, but what it does speak of is: Acts 2:4 – “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”.

    While it’s true that Satan might try to counterfeit manifestations, I’d be careful, as a christian, to ever judge whether it’s from the Lord or not. But, I rely on the word only and “Tongues” was the manifestation to the early church in Acts. I believe that if a child of God, or a repentent sinner seeks God while praying in a place of worship where two or three are gathered in the Name of the Lord Jesus, then Satan cannot interfere in that man’s heart while that man looks towards Jesus. Satan has no power to disrupt what God intends to do.

    I’ve heard of New Age groups that speak ‘glossalalia’. Many will say that speaking in tongues is a fleshly thing because even unbelievers do it. But do these groups pray together in unity, and make a statement that they gather in the Name of Jesus Christ? No, they don’t. So, obviously whatever spirit is involved does not come from the Lord. But when two or three gather in His wonderful Name, the true Spirit dwells there.

    I think it’s getting more and more obvious that christians will always be in the presence of those who are in error and who crave to see manifestations more than craving relationship with our Lord. We probably sit side by side in a pew with someone who dabbles in all kinds of ungodly things. We don’t know the people who we sit next to and worship with. We will always live amongst wheat and tares until He returns, and to me, this means, that it’s more important than ever, to pray alone at home without the influence of unfamiliar spirits. We are also admonished through scripture not to lay hands on anyone (in churches) suddenly. Everywhere we go today, there are some who incorporate New Age teachings with christianity, etc. They could be our associate pastor, our youth pastor, or an acquaintance in church. YET, our God is faithful and in these gathering of the saints, there will still be weeds(tares), yet, His presence is there to those who hunger and thirst for Him. There is no perfect church, nor will there ever be, because as long as humans are in it, there will be that mix of wheat and tares.

  96. jda016 Jun 14th 2013

    Amen Andrew.

    I truly don’t understand the confusion over this. Lee Grady has a dream that he feels means God is going to save a lot of Catholics.

    Praise God! Let it be so O’ Lord!

    It has nothing to do with any sort of approval of the the Roman Church.

  97. 100% Zululander Jun 14th 2013

    I agree with all concerning the rc institution, but you need to come to africa to see some rc sisters & priests what they do. They give their lives for others, they love the Lord & when their lives are over they are buried on the side of a hill out in the sticks & forgotten. I have met many of them,
    Well said Wayne & a few others, particularly about our idols. Most of us are our own idol. Talk about die to self!!!! we know nothing about it, come to africa & see rc’s dead to self & alive to Christ & not a bad word for anyone. At least they DO what they know & have been taught. Were taught but what do we do about it other than critisize others who are untaught.
    challenge you to sit & talk with a rc theologian, not a rc member, not even a priest. Guaranteed he will wrap you up in minutes. They have a way of seeing things as we have a way. No we don’t agree with them, but just listen, you will be suprised. It’s not as simple as you think. Are protestant church beter? Is it worse than our” sinners prayer” deception. How many of us have used the sinners prayer to “lead someone to Christ”? And decieved them that they’re born again?
    Come to Africa folks & see what the rcc has done. We quickly call it salvation by works, why? You wern’t here to ask them? We don’t know the hearts of these people if we haven’t spoken to them.
    In my 45 yrs as a christian, the most wonderful christians I ever me were in the Anglican church & the rc church. Men & woman of God who lived what they believed & gave their lives for Him.
    Reading all the comments her I cannot help wondering about the lives of the writers with all the spiritual sounding talk. Is it just talk? or is there a real life behind it, doing the things the Lord told us to do like loving people, even our enemies, spending our time, talents & possessions helping others., doing the “uncomfortable” things in life for others. Can we say we are living our lives for the benefit of others..
    If you love your son & hes incorrigible, do you trash him or love & protect him from an outside trashing & do something to restore him.
    All you critisizers….what are you DOING to change it??
    The Lord looked with a broken heart at Jerusalem & said how He would love to gather them a hen her chicks but they wouldn’t. I think He feels the same for rc folk. If we can’t feel the same for them then we aught not parade our wonderful doctrine here because it means nothing until we love them & if we love them we won’t trash them.
    I you want to trash the system then you need to trash almost every protestant church as well. You say some are trying to do it right… well so are some of the rc churches

  98. 100% Zululander Jun 14th 2013

    well said jda016

  99. 100% Zululander Jun 14th 2013

    I don’t know why some people take such good news & turn it into a trashing opportunity?
    Maybe it gives them a feeling of power, being better, more knowledgeable, smarter, more spiritual or some other emotional boost.
    So far 100 posts, 95% trashing just 2 things, the hope of a revival in the rc church & the rc church.
    Doesn’t the one need the other?
    Interesting how many trashings it will end up at

  100. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, (2 Peter 1:20)

    This sentence troubles me:
    ” know there are many of my evangelical brothers who have written
    off Catholics as heretics, and they leave no room for redemption
    or reformation.”

    I don’t agree with that assessment. I believe many if not all believers have a heart for Catholics and wish for them to hear the pure simple gospel and believe it. The anger is at a system that gives a glittering counterfeit…which is anti-Christ from head to toe.

    In the past I have misinterpreted dreams…due to my own understanding…and later ended up, they WERE from the Lord. Maybe this dream is not about the RC but the evangelical church…which has it’s idols, rituals, etc etc….

    Any other interpretation out there? Do others have a good witness or negative to the dream?

    These days I don’t ask- “Is a dream TRUE?” but “Is it from the Lord or not?”

    What is the FRUIT or result of this dream? What does it impart to you and me and have us think/believe/do? A demonically inspired dream can be “true” factually- yet use that truth in an impure or deceptive way.

  101. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    I hate posting visions on this site

    If the apostle Peter himself posted visions here, he would be torn to shreds for it.

    Suspicion, suspicion. Whisper, whisper. Innuendo, innuendo.



  102. Update…that dream was written about in J. Lee’s column in 2005.

    I do not wish to impugn him, his character or his walk with the Lord, but to simple urge my brothers and sisters to test all prophesy- including dreams- as scripture teaches.

  103. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    Yes – he said it was 10 years old.

    To “test” things does not mean to nitpick them to pieces.

    But a lot of people think that is it.



  104. austin Jun 14th 2013

    having been brought up Catholic, I think I can safely say the following:
    1) Rome is not a backslidden church – she is at best, a pagan cult.
    2) Her paganism took place in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD.
    3) Most of the cultishness takes place at the leadership level – priests, nuns, bishops and popes – all bound and not free to marry.
    4) Some of the greatest reformers in the last 500 years came out of the RC institution – that’s the point – they came out.
    5) Regardless of what some may think of the ‘Charismatic’ movement, in terms of the RCs most of them went back when the so called ‘move’ was over – late 70’s, early 80’s.
    6) Are they all tarred and feathered with the ‘heretic’ brush? NO!
    If you think that I’m being harsh, then yes, I am. Rome has sent uncountable millions to a Christless grave, believing false doctrines, and putting their faith in men and the saints or angels. I make no excuse for being harsh about that – it could have been me.
    7) Are the ‘non heretics’ redeemable? Yes – my parents were both born RC and they both died saved. My mother prayed me into the kingdom over 4 years, as part of a weekly lasies Bible study group.
    Those who appeared to be ‘free in the Spirit’ in the late 1970’s, all went back bar a few by the mid 1980’s, so please tell me folks, was the whole Charismatic move (the RC part of it) a crock? I think so…

    May there be many more Martin Luthers, Maria Monks,Albertos, and many more like all the other nameless, faceless priests, nuns and lay folks who have seen the glorious light of Jesus Christ, and have forsaken the Whore of Revelation, in favour of the true Church as it finds its expression as the Body of Christ world wide.

    “Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.” Hebrews 13:13

    If we are telling people that we are living for Him, then let us also be prepared to suffer with Him, ‘without the camp’ – outside of those crumbling structures we used to call Christendom.

    Austin Hellier

  105. Dear Brother Barry,

    If I came across as stating that the truth of Christ and following Him was to be forgone in favour of showing a pseudo-love, then I apologize. Such was not my intention.

    To clarify, I was trying to say that we must be careful about telling an immature believer that he MUST do such and such or he is ANTI-CHRIST and headed for hell. This is different from a strong rebuking of one who is openly and knowingly in rebellion to Christ.

    True love for the person MUST be at the root of our interactions with people – especially fellow believers. Paul warned in 1 Corinthians 13 that if we do all the “correct” things but without the Love of Christ at the root, then all those things are worth nothing – and may even be in opposition to the heart and nature of Christ.

    That Christ-like love will cause us to approach a weak/immature believer and warn them – but with grace and compassion, knowing that some are weak in the faith and must be treated gently. Romans 15:1 (ESV) exhorts, “We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.” Christ Himself said that he “would not break a bruised reed,” (Matthew 12:20) referring to His tenderness and compassion for those who needed it.

    If we look to Christ as our example, we find that He reserved His strongest condemnation for those who were not only living contrary to God but thought they were doing and living God’s way – and who were the self-righteous spiritual leaders, who were hypocrites – in opposition to Christ (and hence God, the Father).

    While He rebuked even His disciples at times (sometimes very strongly – Matthew 16:22-23), Christ still dealt with them in love, compassion, and consideration (Luke 22:31 32). The truth must be ministered gently at times. This is seen often in Paul’s epistles.

    It is not an issue of “catching more flies with honey instead of vinegar” (while that can be good advice for certain people). It is an issue of exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit – love, kindness, longsuffering/patience, goodness, gentleness.

    Additionally, Galatians 6:1 exhorts us, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.”

    Correction doesn’t have to be harsh; Truth doesn’t have to be offensive (especially to one who is already yielded to God’s Spirit). I had a good example of that with my four children. The second oldest was very stubborn, self-willed, and strong-willed, while the next one down was extremely sensitive. To correct the strong-willed one I often had to administer a strong correction which may have appeared harsh to an on-looker. To correct her sensitive sister, often all I had to do was give her a look or a gentle word or reminder. I could move her to tears with the right look.

    Seeing as how there are so many exhortations to us in Scripture to be kind to our brothers and sisters, to love them above ourselves, and to administer Truth with grace and gentleness, perhaps these should be our first approaches to them rather than telling them they are anti-christ and are headed for hell simply because they haven’t come to a fulness of the Truth.

    Also, we must remember that a person coming to the Truth is not dependent upon us telling them. Them coming to the Truth is dependent upon the working of the Holy Spirit within them, revealing the Truth. Sometimes we have the privilege of having a part in that work by sharing the Truth with them.

    I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say. There are times when we must boldly state the Truth in all it’s starkness, offensiveness, and pierce the darkness with the light. There are also times when one who is in the Light, but who still has some areas of darkness must be dealt with in gentleness, patience, and grace. The trick is growing in Christ and walking in the Spirit to the point where we can tell the difference.

    May God richly bless you, Brother Barry.

  106. Andrew Jun 14th 2013

    What a great post, Wayne.

    Bless you!


  107. Day old headline “Pope Confirms Gay Lobby at Work in Vatican”. Maybe this is all it will take for millions of believing Catholics to leave the Roman Catholic Church.

  108. Sandra Jun 14th 2013

    I too had a similar dream some years ago, noted in my diary and told to a few people, however, the ensuing tsunami was not restricted to the ‘catholic’ church…it was church…fullstop! With a VERY clear message of GET READY for what is to come. Along with many tornado dreams through churches….these are tumultuous times indeed.

  109. margaret Jun 14th 2013

    In my previous letter here I wrote about the Catholic church….to clarify what I was saying, it is my opinion ( and I heard this from an elder of the Australian church Kevin Connor…not the Catholic church ,the “church”) that God loves His Church, including Catholics….church meaning a group of people…..not everything taught in the Catholic Church is wrong and from my experience with Protestant and pentecostal churches the issues of iniquity and sin are still the same and the cross of Jesus Christ is the only answer…Pride ,lust,self idolatry, self righteousness, and self works being the most heinous…we all must come out from the unclean thing so that He can be our Father…..however as a group of people in the Catholic Church will be affected by this tsunami it is our responsibility to see that they are treated with the care and concern of a true shepherd and not left to the wolves.You readers of this email are so responsible to pray and be informed of what the Holy Spirit would require in this cataclysmic event which is shaking the Roman church to its foundations taking with it all that is not of Gods Holiness.Get ready because God has had enough of it all and He passionately, jealously requires us to reflect the Love of and for His Son and future sons and daughters to be born out of the tsunami.

  110. 100% Zululander Jun 14th 2013

    Thanks Wayne, good stuff

  111. margaret Jun 14th 2013

    Thank you Wayne …thank you thank you ..its the heart of God

  112. I know that this will occur (this harvest ‘out’ of the Roman Catholic ‘Church’)…

    There will be a great harvest before the falling away…

    The final harvest (the great harvest I mention above – and which Smith Wigglesworth saw in his vision) will occur before the falling away Jesus predicts in scripture occurs – many will be saved from all walks of life in this great harvest including many from the Roman Catholic ‘Church’…


  113. God regularly gives dreams and visions to people. It is an inspiration for them to pray for that particular ‘vision’ or ‘dream’ situation.
    God does not want anyone to perish -His Word is clear on that.
    Whether they are Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian or any other denomination that may add to Scriptures the traditions of manmade doctrines and beliefs.

    I sense we are more in an era of God calling His Bride to Himself and to Truth, than in previous times. I sense this vision was given for that person to start interceding for Catholics who he knows or in his community and the church at large, and for them to come to know the truth of The Gospel of Christ.

    The events that are to occur in the world, especially the western world, are going to turn many people’s so called faith upside down and only the truth of the light of the Gospel will help them stand in that time. If their beliefs are build upon the traditions of man and not the saving grace of Jesus and His power, then they will go under.

    So I hope that man is on his knees now praying for those Catholics.

    Just as we should pray for the Moslems who are now experiencing the turmoil in their nations, with their world being turned upside down. May true harvests arise from the wreckage.

  114. After reading a lot of the comments here it reminds me of Jonah. Jonah took pity on the plant but was angry that nothing happened (divine judgement), to the people of Nineveh.

    The people of Nineveh heeded the Word of the Lord and turned from their sin.

    With God all things are possible, if He chose to pour out His Spirit on the Catholics then we should all say;

    Praise God.


  115. David Marsh Jun 14th 2013

    Indeed God will send a wave of His Spirit to begin reformation. It really cannot begin in any other way.
    As to Mr Grady’s vision, we had a lovely family come accross to the pentecostal church that i attended over 10m years ago. They were lovely people. Just lovely.
    The message is that when we are called by God we are not to call what He has cleaned, as being unclean. is the catholic system any uncleaner than some of the bondages that many have come out of.

    Andrew is right, God is after a people, it doesnt matter if they happen to be looking for God in the Catholic system at the moment. I dare say most of them are living very Godly lives.

    God will begin His call from within the church, and it seems that it will include the Catholics as well. praise God.

    David Marsh.

  116. I do not believe God is the least bit interested in the organizations of men, be they “churches” clubs or corporations -The Gospel is to every individual, regardless of creed, race, colour.
    When Roman Catholics are baptized, receive the Holy Spirit, and begin to live according to The Word, that is a most excellent result, but we cannot then assume God is blessing the Roman “church”
    Rather Rev 18.21 to end of its prophesied end.
    Pr Michael

  117. watchful Jun 14th 2013

    There has been a shaking of the Catholic church that has already occurred or still in motion… the past ten years (or so?) we have seen unprecedented media exposure of the sins of her Priests…..I think it is causing quite a few Catholics to ask questions. This has occurred at the same time we have seen much exposure of sins among evangelical Pastors as well. When the idols topple from their pedestals, some do escape their clutches, while others seem to continue to cling to them.

  118. Jordan Shepherd Jun 14th 2013

    It almost seems that in posting this account of Lee’s vision, the result has shown a division of opinion between believers. I could expect nothing less since we all speak from experience, discernment or purely hope which is good. I also see nothing wrong with saints grappling and wrestling to understand what all this means. I like to hear the shepherds lead others to process their evaluations with godly consideration and heart.

    The posts are very interesting, among those I liked are Margieinoz, WM, Missbridgewater, Frank McEleny Suzy, Barry Schmidt, Ps Wayne (good to hear from you), Paul FC, Wineskin, chas 351, Marie, April, Austin, Margaret and others.

    Usually I do not speak directly to what has been posted partly because it can appear to be critical and partly because by the time I read the posts, it seems right to respond to the flow of the discussion rather than the article itself. For this time I will change that.

    For me, the key passage in the article depicting the dream is:

    “The atmosphere was spiritually charged. Yet, as these people
    prayed, a man dressed in ornate religious garb began to shout
    angrily at them in Italian. He was obviously not happy with the
    way these Catholics were behaving. This upset me, and I began
    to rebuke him. I was speaking in my prayer language, so I didn’t
    know what I was saying. But I knew God was rebuking the leaders
    who were opposing His work.”

    This brings to my mind the following Scripture from Matthew 12:25:

    “And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.”

    My interpretation, which could be wrong, is: RCC is heading for some kind of fall. You know, when you take a big fall, hit the ground and everything looks upside down? Why will it fall? Because she is not biblically built – wrong foundation and, worship of the wrong image. How or what will the “fall” look like? As some suggested – get swallowed up, or be central to, a one world religion.

    A key sentence of the account is: “But I knew God was rebuking the leaders who were opposing His work.”

    This is where it gets tricky. On one hand, some will see this statement, which reflects Lee’s own interpretation of the Italian man’s action, as God wanting to do A WORK in the RCC, since God is opposing the work of the so called leaders who in turn appear to be opposing those “priests and nuns” from having a “Pentecost” experience.

    What I think the dream reflects is what has already begun to take place; people in the RCC are getting saved because God is not willing anyone should perish. God saving individuals is very different to the claim that He will recreate the RCC institution into the epitome of the bride of Christ for the world to emulate. Clearly, those people in the RCC who are born again WILL receive some kind of persecution as demonstrated by the “priestly robed” leader in the dream.

    Another reason I do not think the dream is saying God is intending to do a move upon the RCC to bring about a work of “Pentecost” from within the RCC because it is too late and manifestation of signs and wonders at this juncture is ripe for prophetic fulfilment that speaks also of false signs and wonders. Please hear – It’s not too late for people within the RCC to be saved, but too late for that institution to begin representing the image of God. She has not honoured God’s word and she has peddled a false Gospel.

    We are now on the world stage, close to the hour of Christ’s second coming, and the stage is being set for one world government, one world religion, etc. The RCC had hundreds of years to reform yet condemned those sent to her. Please understand, I am not condemning the people, just the institution with it’s doctrine of demons. The people, however, are just as loved by God as are we all the world over regardless of labels and institutions. Like Fabakery said above, “it’s about the people”.

    I think the warning is for those in the RCC who love and worship the true God – they will have to make a choice – come out, or stay in. Can she be reformed? I think history shows that you cannot reform a cult from within.

    Is she a cult? By definition, yes indeed. Do people get saved out of cults? Yes, all the time, because they cry out to God. I have heard first hand testimony to this.

    On a side note: I had many dreams in the 1980’s of Tsunamis. They completely rocked my world and would cause me to wonder what on earth is coming. That was prior to me becoming a Christian. Since becoming a Christian, I have had a number of God-sent dreams, all of which have been correctly interpreted and tested, and all of which proved to be warnings that came to fruition. I praise God for those warnings which enabled me to take appropriate action.

    In my early life as a believer I attended a Pentecostal Church, filled with the Spirit, the Lord directed me to my first mission field as a student at the – The Australian Catholic University. In a four year period the Lord taught me many things about evangelism, humility, and gifts of the Spirit. There were times to speak up and there were times to shine my light and communicate God’s heart in various ways.

    I had broken hard ground over those four years. Four years, at least one thousand Gospel presentations, one soul wonderfully and powerfully saved during the final week of my four years. Never did I cease to enthusiastically share the wonderful news of the Gospel even with such poor statistics, for I knew I was sharing the full Gospel to those who had been raised RC all their entire life.

    In the first year, the Lord taught me and spoke to me and said: “I love the Catholics.” He said this not to mean its ok about false doctrine, but to love those He wished to set free. I understood I had to work from the foundation of compassion and not the letter of the law alone.

    For those who wish to minister to and understand Catholics, I recommend a booklet called, “To Catholics Whom I Love” by Terry Arnold – still available.

    Thank you for your posts and Andrew for posting. Just when I think I understand, I realise how much I don’t when I read posts like those above. Thank you also for your testimonies and let us all remember, God is not wanting anyone to perish … so … take a look in your workplace or community and consider the prickly, hurting, unlovable people there … Are we willing to have that person be our brother or sister? Let’s start praying, leading and loving, and receive those whom God will set free and forget not the lost sheep and the scattered sheep.

  119. All the dream really claims is that nuns and priests will speak in tongues and then they will be true followers of Jesus . It does not say they will repent of false doctrine and all sin and leave a false religion. This is just a lie. Read it carefully and you will see he is embracing a new reformed catholic church , not calling people out of it, this is deception.

  120. From the article,
    ” They’d rather see the whole system crash and burn.
    Perhaps they forgot that we have our own idols, sex scandals and
    institutional corruption, and that we need a spiritual tsunami to
    turn us upside down as well. ”

    What Lee fails to see is that the institution he is a part of is as lost as the catholic church. You can not follow Jesus and remain in false religion. It is self-deception. Christ’s church has rejected all idols and lifted Jesus above all things, His people will never say “we have our own idols”, but rather “we have thrown down all our idols because we know Jesus as Lord”.

  121. Robert Jun 14th 2013

    Here is something powerful to really think upon and ask yourselves.

    June 14
    What is Good for Him?
    “Peter said to Jesus, ‘Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles.’”
    LUKE 9:33

    Christians seek many spiritual things: anointing, power, gifts, blessing, fruit, wisdom, prosperity. I pray the Lord will make us thoroughly and completely dissatisfied with THINGS, even the things He gives us, and make us hungry and thirsty for Himself.

    May we judge things not by whether they are “good for us,” but whether they are good for the Lord, whether His Will is done in them, whether His Need is met by them, whether His Purpose is fulfilled in them, whether His Son is seen through them. He is the Only One, the Beloved Son of God. May the Lord be transfigured before us!

    Source: Lord of All by Chip Brogden

  122. Robert Jun 14th 2013

    Correction and clarification.

    If it happens, great, can we pray, you bet, but the remainer is up to the Lord and HIS CHOOSING. As far as dreams and visions, I have read so much in the past from Cindy Jacobs, Peter Wagnor and groups that have not formulated and are setting out to join hands and forces, prophecying and laying on of hands but you know, none of them are repenting, renouncing of the witchcraft that they are or have been in. So, w/ all that, is that really a “pure bride” and “church” EKKLESIA?

    What I was trying to say is all this is in dominion thinking and teaching. The unity of all coming together but really where is Jesus in all of this. Are they all bowing down to Jesus, the ONE AND ONLY TRUE SAVIOR. Is self being denied and are they asking for forgiveness and humbling themselves and not doing “works” to be saved?

    The dominionism/Joel’s army is very forceful. People that you do not suspect would ever be involved are involved , they have been brought into it and there is much mixture because it looks so innocent but they are not bowing unto the Lord Jesus Christ. These folks have to have the power of the Holy Spirit through God Almighty come and reteach them as they are willing to give up all that they were taught. Yes it can happen but once again, most visions and dreams came in the old testiment and even that is something that dominon believers have come to repeat all the time “well it is in the bible”. Yes, it is, but please show me all the scriptures aside from John that the apostlese spoke of the dreams and visions they had that would bring people forth? Yes, I know, men will dream dreams, etc.etc.etc. That is true, but we have to be careful and reading just about everyone of these, so many are giving an agreement to this. Be careful what you agree w/.!!!!!!!

    First, catholics have to stop believing in the “eucurist” of communion . Please read what they believe in their “communion taking”. There are many things that will have to be laid down . We will meet some that will be willing , but it will be the LORD that opens their hearts and I don’t bank on a dream or vision but ONLY JESUS CHRIST.

  123. I’ll share an event when my catholic mother-in-law passed away. First though, before she died, she became interested in reading her bible every day. She loved God, feared Him, did as much as she could to live a godly life, and whether she made a personal committment to Him or not, I don’t know; but she did watch many Billy Graham television crusades and knowing how many Catholics did accept Christ on those occasions, I also know that seeds were planted.

    My MIL’s nephew who was a priest officiated at her funeral. At the funeral, he gave us an account of him being at a cafe sitting alone, the day before the funeral was feeling frustrated at finding the right words to encourage the family of his aunt. He told us how he prayed in that moment to God to show him what to speak about. He suddenly felt to look up at the wall in front of him, at a poster, one of those 2-dimensional photos, that when looked at it’s all scrambled. He kept staring at it, trying to figure out what the picture really was, and the colors started to settle within his sight, and the photo was of the Risen Christ. (in a cafe, no less).

    Both his eulogy for his aunt and sermon were on the risen Christ. I felt moved with tears, because in all essence, that is what my MIL would have wanted. She did have faith in the Risen Christ.

    And no matter how we want to box ourselves in either white or black – there are many grey areas that the Lord works with. We don’t know the hearts of the so many people who attend churches with false doctrines. Many catholics in small local congregations don’t know what the Vatican does, nor do they have the energy to find out if there is corruption – many people in the world don’t have access to internet, tv, media. I believe God meets a person where he/she is and the less they know, the more grace He gives them. It’s those who have been given much (which includes much information about this corrupt world) that have the great responsibility to do much. If we are given God’s wisdom for these last days, we are responsible and accountable to be wise in how we deal with those in false doctrines.

    I believe the dream was about those in power, the institution, and those men and women who were lulled into that institution, will be lulled back to Christ.

  124. Nevada1 Jun 14th 2013

    What a confusing load of comments.
    Who says this ” vision is authentic ??
    If it is authentic why so much debate ?
    I notice a lack of comparison with Scripture.
    I agree with Dave ( some comments ago that “Jesus came to bring Salvation and not a denomination ”

    I agree with Robert in the previous e.mail

    PLEASE READ what they believe in their “communion taking”. There are many things that will have to be laid down . We will meet some that will be willing , but IT WILL BE THE LORD (YES THELORD) that opens their hearts and I don’t bank on a dream or vision but ONLY JESUS CHRIST.

  125. To Nevada1 – I certainly have a lot more to learn about being discerning, and I kind of keep my antennas up when people speak of dreams and such, but throughout the years, I’ve had dreams, and kept quiet about it, waiting to see if it was indigestion or the Lord. I’m still waiting for answers.

    They say we know a true prophet when the prophecy comes to pass. Also, if a gift of prophecy or dreams is given to a believer, that prophecy is always to be used and given for edification to the Church. I believe that if Lee Grady’s dream is of the Lord, it’s purpose to be shared is to prepare us, the Church, to be ready for those who will come out of cults. If a wave of God’s spirit is to turn things upside down, then many members will also have their spiritual lives turned upside down and will need us to be available to bring them to the true Christ.

    Prophecies for today, in my opinion, are not like OT prophecies given to Israel. Under the OT, God chose to display his wrath, and punish Israel’s enemies. Under our new covenant, thought Christ, God is ministering to us by His grace. True dreams and visions and prophecies for today are to edify the church, and if a dream is about God’s Tsunami shaking the foundations of an institution, as christians, we know this is a good thing, because those in that church will have their false faith shaken to the core and need the Body of Christ to lead them to the true Christ.

    Right now, I believe that all true christians can be deceived in some area, and STILL prophecy. We are living in such a corrupted world, with demon doctrines just waiting to enter into every pulpit, and so many are bound by different winds of doctrine now, and we don’t know who is wise and who isn’t. Yet, I believe even though many are deluded, these same will still be given dreams and warnings. Saul was used even though he was an enemy of David, for two years. Saul did finally meet his punishment, but was used by God even in his hatred of David. God uses vessels of honor and dishonor; (although I am not saying that Mr. Grady is a vessel of dishonor at all), I am saying that in today’s world, we know that many still speak God’s word and are on borrowed time and when God decides it’s time to remove them, He will. But, He, not willing that any perish, will use the deluded to still preach, so others can be saved.

  126. Lightning Storm Jun 14th 2013

    LOL good one GaryB!

    wow Pastor Wayne…that post was right on…thank you.

    Amen. Zululander

    Well….I am coming to the conclusion that most “christians” define DISCERNMENT according to:


    Fear, Worry, Anxiety, Suspicion are all SIN and of the CARNAL NATURE.

    Why? you ask……Because the Lord says that ANYTHING that is NOT OF FAITH/TRUST IN HIM IS SIN.

    Fear, Worry, Anxiety, Suspicion are the OPPOSITE of FAITH, DISCERNMENT, and being RULED/CONTROLLED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    If someone is in bondage to a sin (stuck with no victory or being set free from it)(a vicious cycle of always “giving the same thing to God” over and over), there is always a lie or lies that is being believed at the ROOT of that bondage.

    Get rid of the ROOT LIES, and the person is set free.

    So what are the LIES that people who are RULED by suspicion, fears, worry, and anxiety believing?

  127. Suzanne Griffis Jun 14th 2013

    To Lightening Storm–you are entirely welcome! And right on–last comment.
    I think what is going to happen to the catholic church is a paradox –like Jesus was thought by some to be King and some saw him as the suffering servant. He was both. I believe this dream is totally from the Lord! I would hate to think that all the times the Lord has sent me to Spain, Italy (including Rome—which the Lord showed me was ruled by the Spirit of Zeus while on a prayer walk (by myself). Usually I have no or little money when the Lord says go. I will always see at least one person before I leave for the trip (by the Holy Spirit) that the Lord wants me to witness to or pray for. They always come across my path. God is interested in the LOST SHEEP–He who wins souls is wise. Praying through the Vatican for those whose hearts are hungry is a blessing. However, the oppression I felt through walking in the Vatican was so strong, I could hardly stand up and the Lord reminded me that it would be destroyed as the book of Revelation states. (This is the building and system)–Remember, God’s consuming fire is also twofold– one that consumes us with Jesus and the other a fire of judgment. I would hate to think the Lord sent me so many times for nothing??? I know HE is going to do a mighty work on ALL flesh because His Word says so. The world will know and see us as followers of Jesus when they see the love we have for each other and our enemies.

  128. Carina Arias Jun 14th 2013

    My two cents:
    I was a raised in the RCC in a mostly RC country. I had two periods in my life when I was profoundly devout as a Catholic. First was around my prep for the Eucharist, ages 9-11, second period from around 16-21 years of age. My conviction is that if I was not born again at some point during the first period or the second (which I believe I was), the Lord anyhow used a lot of people to plant a lot of seeds in my heart. In spite of all the strange mixture of truth and falsehood, God did use many of the truths being taught to educate my conscience in right and wrong and deliver me from MANY wrong paths. (In fact, I believe that without that religious instruction, faulty though it was, I may not be alive today). I had a lot of good teachers and role models.
    At 16, I joined a youth group and did a series of retreats, all of which helped me a lot to grow in my relationship with Christ. Yes, I did have a relationship, and it was close enough for Him to confront me (over and over again with the Bible) at one point about leaving my atheist boyfriend, to which I rebelled and this caused a big issue in my spiritual health, which began a process which eventually led to a crisis and my leaving the institution.
    During the years I was involved in Catholic groups, and after I left, I met some great people whose faith, as far as I can tell, was perhaps more authentic than a lot of Evangelicals I met later. Of course, I’ve also met many Catholics who go to weekly Mass and spend the rest of the week in utter rebellion against God. But then again, many Evangelicals do the same.
    My point is this… As a Catholic young believer, I was a seeker. I was always a seeker. My search back then went beyond Catholicism. I was willing to hear whatever spiritual “truth” I could find, whether it was RC, Protestant or New Age. I was dead wrong many times and discernment came after many errors had filled my mind and poisoned my heart. But I continued seeking.
    That search ultimately led me out of Catholicism, out of New Age, out of the first two Pentecostal churches I first attended (and the Baptist church I visited for a time) and into an earnest, personal plea for wisdom and study of the Scriptures and increasing heart knowledge and dependence upon Christ as my one and only Savior and Lord.
    Perhaps it’s wishful thinking, but I want to believe that there are many Catholics (and Jews, and Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons, etc.) who are at heart dissatisfied with the status quo and have serious doubts or questions about their religion and are seeking a personal encounter with the one true God. Can Jesus reach out to them? Sure He can and He will. I believe if anyone is really earnest in seeking God and has a humble and contrite spirit, that person will eventually find Christ and see through the lies of human religious systems and traditions.
    I didn’t need a lot of discussions and arguments against Catholicism to leave the RC faith for good. I wasn’t convinced in my head. It was the example of the great Evangelical people I met that first convinced me there was another way to live Christianity and finally led me to study the Scriptures and see I’d been taught wrong and I couldn’t be a part of that system anymore.

  129. Why is there such a push in this blog to prop up or validate the false and wicked anti-Christ religion called Catholocism? Perhaps it would be helpful for the lukewarm Americanized Christians to see the writing on the wall and know that they need a tsunami sized bath to turn their world upside down too.

    For the record; Mary does not save, now or at the hour of our death. And there is no place called “Purgatory”, where you can work off your debt of sin when you die. And church membership does not earn your salvation as the Catholics and others believe.

    Only Yeshua can save and deliver your soul. It’s the blood of the Lamb of God that takes away our sins. All glory, honor and praise to the Lord, Yeshua ha’Mashiac.

  130. nolomolistari Jun 14th 2013

    Here’s the elephant in the room:

    Christians can easily see the workings of the Adversary in the new age movement, it’s totally given over to him.
    There is no controversy over this, and the World raises no impediment to it.

    However, when you point to the RC’s, it’s not so cut & dried. As others have pointed out, and I myself can testify, there are those that are born again, and slaves of Christ.
    Why so much signs of the Babylonian system within it? For one thing Jesus didn’t give instructions on how to run a corporate structure, He left it up to us to do so, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Church was built with Jews and pagans; each brought their ideas on how to express worship and the daily running of a church…I invite you to research how the Syriac, the Ethiopian, the Armenian, etc. CHRISTIAN churches approach bringing the Kingdom of Heaven among the World.

    As a tactician, where would you expect the Enemy to position himself? Afar off, or as close to the seat of operations as he could entwine? Where does an enemy drop poison? In the next country over, or right in your immediate dinner plate?

    Is the newage movement comparable with the RC Church?
    From some of the posts here, you could get that impression.

    I’ve seen imitators of Christ in both RC and Protestant ‘denominations’. How is that possible?

    What would make the Protestant structure seemingly untouched by the Enemy? Could it be it has its own flaw being exploited that better serves staying sub-rosa?

    It would be time-consuming, tedious, and unnecessarily decisive, to refute, for example, all the claims of idolatry within the RC structure; when all humans by nature are inclined towards it.
    If you think the Protestants don’t have their own unexamined idols, try dropping a Bible on a dusty floor…or speak critically of Billy Graham or Martin Luther…

  131. Be blessed all who LOVE THE LORD………..
    we are already in the falling away.
    and if any cannot see this……………..draw nigh unto CHRIST
    and read ONLY BIBLE.
    Be blessed .
    and ONCE MORE PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  132. Lightning Storm Jun 14th 2013

    LOL nolomolistari.

    I would like to present an example that God gave us from the BEGINNING.

    There were 2 TREES in the Garden of Eden….in PARADISE, my friends.

    The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
    The Tree of Life.

    The FIRST tree was EVIL and contained an EVIL ENTITY.
    The SECOND tree was HOLY and contained FRUIT.

    Now why, pray tell, did a HOLY GOD have an EVIL TREE AND SATAN in the middle of HIS PARADISE/GARDEN?

    Hint: Since the BEGINNING of time and creation, there has ALWAYS been a MIXTURE.

  133. Lightning Storm Jun 14th 2013

    oops….I forgot to put the word “fruit” in there.

    Should read:

    The FIRST tree was EVIL and contained FRUIT and an EVIL ENTITY.

  134. Jda016 Jun 14th 2013

    I’m still so surprised as to why people think Lee Grady is defending the Catholic system when clearly he is not. There wouldn’t be this kind of backlash if Grady had a vision of Hindus, Muslims, or, Buddhists coming to Jesus.

    There is no defending of idols here.

    There is no defense of the Pope or praying to Mary.

    There is no promotion of any of the Paganism that appeared in the Roman Catholic church so long ago.

    The vision has to do with people coming to Jesus who were once in the Roman Catholic Church. Isn’t that what Martin Luther did?


    andrew………..and all
    Have a good listen.

  136. Lightning Storm Jun 14th 2013

    AMEN Jda016


    I SUGGEST ALL WATCH IT………….its very short

  138. many may say i am wrong, i know nuaght
    but one thing they cannot say………
    is that i DID NOT WARN………….
    true lOVE will do that……………WARN
    for it desires NONE TO PERISH, but knows
    they will without repentacne, without CHRIST, without

  139. margaret Jun 15th 2013

    Thank you Jordan Shepherd for your encouraging words . I find as I am getting older and my Catholic relatives have all passed away, that God now has me tucked away in a position that I learned as a catholic ( the generally accepted position of kneeling in reverence which is one of the positions mentioned in the OT regarding worship) praying for hearts to be changed in all places where ever possible. What comes to me is that there is not much understanding or knowledge of God’s heart amongst some who have come out of Protestantism ( if in deed they have ‘come out’)..look at the history of Henry 8th and the various wickedness of Luther and Cromwell, who no doubt reformed the church in some areas but failed in others….the doctriine of demons that forbids marriage has been a blight on the history of the West , as also the wars fought is God’s name.This doctrine is not of God but harks back to hidden borrowed pagan systems from Babylon and Egypt.We all need to do more than repent once and be saved; it is a daily lifestyle of worship; to carry your cross daily means walking close to Jesus and repentance and forgiveness is the key to communication with the Father.( Thy Kingdom come Thy will be done on earth etc…)

  140. margaret Jun 15th 2013

    Bless you Carina Arias; I weep when I read your letter . I had a similar experience to you as an Irish Catholic in a colonial country under the English False Royalty headship of a church and state whose wickedness is hidden ( not out there for all to see as Rome is! ) …God truly does hear the cry of the heart….I am also in a place as an older woman of God hidden from these systems and sitting at the feet of Jesus being steeped in Himself and His word, a student and learnin to be a teacher( O no! a woman teaching the Word!)….for such a time as this…this is how we do it…..and God really really LOVES me…this I know because I was told when I was 5 years old that God made me and I believed it…..

  141. Lightning Storm Jun 15th 2013

    I am so blessed by your spirit, Margaret. So filled with Divine Love and His Holiness.

    thank you for your posts.

  142. Carina Arias Jun 15th 2013

    You’re welcome Margaret. I’m glad my story has blessed you. In case anyone misunderstood my words, I was not underestimating the importance of the gross errors and some downright blasphemies of the RCC. All I was trying to say is that in spite of them, God can still speak to any seekers who are indeed part of His people but have been misled by traditions of men.
    You can be at a church teaching the purest doctrine, be wisely instructed and discipled and yet, if you’re heart is not the heart of a true seeker and worshipper, it will do you no good to sit under that instruction for 50+ years if you never truly repent and turn to Jesus. You can understand the Gospel in your mind and never at heart admit you’re sinful and unworthy of being in God’s presence.
    And you can be a very bad church setting, even a cult, and God can use whatever is true in that false religion to bring you to Him, and eventually show you all the contradictions in the false church system you’re being yoked to. If you’re truly seeking truth (and He knows very well who is and who is just a pretender!), He will bring people to your life, indeed He will surround you with believers whose lives may not be perfect, but who begin to plant seeds of truth (and to warn you about the lies) that bring you closer and closer until you finally get that JESUS is the answer (not religion).
    Of course, it’s not easy to get out of a false religion or cult. In my case, I was frightened to death. I thought, what if it’s true that outside of the “church” there is no salvation (meaning, the RCC as their Cathecism teaches) and I go to hell because of this decision to leave the faith supposedly founded by Jesus and delegated to Peter, and his successors in Rome? It was VERY hard for me to finally understand beyond the shadow of a doubt that those were lies planted by the very enemy. (The RCC has made a great PR campaign to present itself as THE one true church founded by Jesus Himself. Even movies of apocalyptic tone always feature priests rather than pastors. Same with movies portraying “exorcisms” and spiritual warfare.)
    What all of us need (Catholics and Protestants alike, churchgoers and unchurched believers) is to go back to our Bibles. Because deception is EVERYWHERE. And I agree with some who’ve said there is just as much idolatry in our camp as in theirs.
    The one way to be a true disciple of Jesus is the same for all: deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. That’s the best way I know of becoming eventually free of deception, including the deception of denominational pride. If you hold on to Baptist, Pentecostal teaching(or whatever doctrine you’ve been taught), as infallible and the final interpretation of God’s Word, you’re not much better off than a Catholic. And if you think you can’t be deceived, you’re deceived already. As it’s been said repeatedly in this forum, it takes more than reading apologetics blog to discern truth from lies.

  143. watchful Jun 15th 2013

    Amen Randall and all who are urging and warning caution, for know we not that in the last days perilous times shall come!

    If ever there was a time not to discourage fear and suspicion in God’s children surely this is it……..for the one I fear is God and the one I am suspicious of is myself above all. Am I wrong in saying that fear of God and mistrust of self is lacking most wherever there is the worst deception and error and sin..?

    The Lord is sovereign, ruling and reigning, and in absolute control, BUT WE ARE NOT, on the contrary, we are subject to weakness and prone to wander…….hence the many many warnings and admonitions of scripture concerning very real dangers and pitfalls that ought not to be mocked, dismissed or downplayed. God forbid that any of us be found guilty of inadvertently sending any child of His astray and into spiritual peril by saying or implying that it is wrong to be cautious or test anything! Surely the lack of testing is another thing that is lacking where we find error and deception. Don’t we need more of it and not less? Shouldn’t we be GLAD when the people of God are turning and mulling things over, examining, asking questions, seeking, knocking for a change? Having our senses/discernment sharpened by the EXERCISE.

  144. Claudia Jun 15th 2013

    10 years of human time is 15 minutes in YHWH’s time. That dream was just 15 minutes ago in the “real zone”!

    Thank you for the message, Pastor Wayne…..very timely.

  145. missbridgewater Jun 15th 2013

    The OT they were still “trying to save themselves” and it seems to me Jesus was telling them to repent from that and “believe on him the father sent, PERIOD. If anyone thinks pentecostals dont have the same works element as catholics, I think think their sadly mistaken, as they are always constantly still trying to be sinless and “holy” again, only one ever was, and it was meant to be that way from the begining of this earth age, of the flesh, and NOBODY will achieve perfection while in the flesh, so quit playing games while Im so sick of hearing, OH well, we are all sinners, B”UT BUT BUT BUT But AND AND AND. we need to do this, or we need the baptism of fire, we need tongues,Such garbage. We are saved period, and get ready for chastisement if we dont heed his warnings, and from what I see, chastisment comes in the flesh, while your here, to lead ya back nowhere do I see where the NT believer EVER doubted their salvation, and even after years, they still said they needed a savior, Paul said concerning sinner I AM chief, he didnt say I WAS, In timothy I AM A WRETCh he did not say I WAS, yet its plain to see who rejects GOD”S pure GRACE, Pentecostals included.

  146. missbridgewater Jun 15th 2013

    EVEN those who “say” theyve come out of the institution.

  147. missbridgewater Jun 15th 2013

    There are those who are seeking powers and control, I see Catholics “turning” pentecostal, whle they rejoice, its more then likely its always been the other way around, because of those who crept in, same as in the levital priesthood, nothings any different, its pure deceptio. There will be those who lay and wait to kill and destroy and those who hold on to Jesus words, love your enemies. I dont dont many christians today who can do that, especially when they are making bunkers, wanting to take up arms, and they themselves try “to rid the world of “evil people” them damn sinners! kill them all!

  148. missbridgewater Jun 15th 2013

    They will say because they dont believe like us! They dont receive our power, our “gifts” Talk against these long enough and you will see them reguardless of denomination most turn oooooogly. and will cut loose with the lip, the tongue and then you can see whats at the heart.

  149. Claudia Jun 15th 2013


    QUOTE: More than 10 years ago, I had the most vivid dream I’ve ever experienced. I told my wife about it the moment I woke up because it was so profound. The scenes are still etched in my memory. I dreamed I was standing inside the Vatican. Keep in mind that I’ve never been a Catholic, and I’ve never visited Italy. But in my dream, I was in an ornate hall decorated with marble columns
    and a fancy paved floor. I walked over to a huge, arched window
    where I could see a panoramic view of Vatican City.


    Suddenly a huge wave appeared on the horizon. A tsunami was
    coming. The wave got closer and closer, but I did not feel panic,
    even though I could hear people running and yelling as they
    prepared for the impact. I stood near a wall and braced myself.


    When the wave hit, the palatial building began creaking and tilting.
    Antique tables, chairs, candelabra and statues began sliding to
    one side as the floor moved. Chandeliers were hanging at odd
    angles. Within minutes the floor was perpendicular to the ground
    and more furniture came crashing down. The movement continued
    until the floor became the ceiling. More religious icons, statues
    and paintings fell and broke into pieces.


    In my dream, I did not feel anxious about this catastrophe. Nor did
    I ask the obvious questions: How could a tsunami reach that far
    inland since the Vatican is almost 20 miles from the Mediterranean
    coast? How could a tsunami turn a huge building upside down?
    And why was there no water anywhere? I knew in my dream that
    what I had witnessed was a spiritual event.

    THE WINDS OF YHWH COME FROM THE FOUR CORNERS, SPIRITUAL WATERS THAT AFFECT THE EVENTS OF MANKIND. (Rev. 7: 1-4 shows how, within the Sixth Seal, before the 7th Seal is removed (Day of YHWH) that the 4 winds are stopped until after the 144,000 are sealed. This 6th Seal event sees the end of YHWH’s 6,000 years of striving with mankind after they are sealed for their safety. No more!…..the trumpets are about to sound, THE WINDS RELEASED with the 7th trumpet bringing in the cleansing of the Sanctuary on Earth with the 7 Vials of Wrath given to angels who are to disperse them. The Redeemed can no longer be affected as they are in their Spiritual Bodies…Redeemed at the sounding of the last trump.)

    (Dream continued): At that point I heard a commotion at the other end of the hall. When I got close enough, I discovered a group of Catholic nuns and priests who were praying in the Holy Spirit. They had their hands raised and they were worshiping God fervently, as if they had experienced another Pentecost.


    The atmosphere was spiritually charged. Yet, as these people
    prayed, a man dressed in ornate religious garb began to shout
    angrily at them in Italian. He was obviously not happy with the
    way these Catholics were behaving. This upset me, and I began
    to rebuke him. I was speaking in my prayer language, so I didn’t
    know what I was saying. But I knew God was rebuking the leaders
    who were opposing His work.


    At that point, I woke up. And I felt the Holy Spirit say to me: “I
    am going to turn the Catholic Church upside down.”



    “Remember things that happened at the beginning, long ago-that I am YHWH, and there is no other; I am YHWH, and there is none like me. At the beginning I announce the end, proclaim in advance things not yet done; and I say that my plan will hold, I will do everything I please to do” (Isaiah 46:9-10).

  150. Claudia Jun 15th 2013

    Miss Bridge Water; Perhaps in the dream the nuns and such were speaking HEBREW to Yahshua? The Pentecostal experience that happend when the Holy Spirit descended to man, after Yahshua ascended, were tongues that were common in that time. The many, many folks that were gathered there who were from many differeing nations heard their own tongues being spoken!

    Why? It was a sign that the Holy Spirit and the Salvational Message of Yahshua would be shared with all peoples, if they Believe all His Work of Obedience on earth to the Father YHWH…..including laying down His life blood so that Redemption would be possible. Unlike Abraham’s son, a substitute was not found caught in the bushes….that spared Abraham’s son.

  151. Claudia Jun 15th 2013

    Man creeps into all religions during this 6,000 years……but YHWH’s POWER is much greater, and He can overcome the efforts of man, as He sees into the heart of things.

    Man will not creep into the teachings that occur in the Mellinnium Day.

  152. Lightning Storm Jun 15th 2013

    AMEN Claudia. Thank you for posting….so far I am enjoying every word.

  153. I believe that we will soon seen great shame coming upon the Pentecostal Church who arrogantly believe that they are free from the religious spirit when in fact Pride is rife within this movement – it is full of hypocrisy with its great showmen of the pulpit and its Superstar Worship Leaders all bickering and jostling for the highest position.

    Woe to you Pastors who deny and reject the true gifts of Christ and put in place those with money or those who will tickle your ears!

  154. watchful Jun 15th 2013

    The great end-time move of God that we have ALREADY been witnessing the past ten years and more is that of………….separation. Sheep from goats, wheat from tares. The light of God has been exposing the sins of priests and pastors alike and shaking the churches like we have never seen before as far as I know. Some sheep have fled to freedom having seen their idols crashed to the ground. But there are many who continue to cling to their smashed idols even after their fall. Or return to them. Both within Catholicism and the Protestant churches/ministries. These are ‘destroyed’ spiritually………with strong delusion.

    We sometimes don’t realize that we who are alive and believe in the last days ARE the harvest. (Though there is still more work to be done as long as it is still daylight….to invite those in the highways and byways.) God’s rain and watering causes both the good crop to grow and mature as well as the thorns and thistles. What can we expect from full grown thorns and thistles, I don’t like to think of it, but we need to be prepared.

    Jesus will return when mankind has done his worst…..just like the Israelites entering the Promised Land to judge and cleanse the land when the sin of the Canaanites had come to the full. I do not see Him in scripture returning and bringing an end to the structures and institutions of man until then….? Because mankind needs to learn from his mistakes and be humbled thereby…the human race (those who survive) needs to wake up to see and realize some harsh realities about itself first, when they see what the best self-efforts of fallen humanity has led to, before they will finally bow the knee.

    We haven’t yet seen the beast turn on and devour the harlot. And Babylon will fall but be replaced by something worse until Jesus returns..? As far as I understand it…..the devil’s last stand, his anti-Christ.

    In the meantime as Marilyn has shown, we should not be ignorant of Catholicism’s intentions….and the many prayers they are praying toward that end (witchcraft). We wrestle not with flesh and blood……………… If we hear of any “move” anywhere we need to inquire of the Lord what His will is, whether to steer clear or not. That’s what I did with Lakeland, having learned my lessons the hard way from Toronto, and the Lord proved Himself faithful. He is our strong tower, the righteous run into Him and they are kept safe.

  155. watchful Jun 15th 2013

    ….in other words, kiss the Son………..


  156. watchful Jun 15th 2013

    Psalm 2.

    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

    Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying],

    Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

    Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

    Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

    Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

    Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.

    Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.

    Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

    Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

    Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.


  157. Claudia Jun 15th 2013

    I so look forward to the time when all God’s creatures once again speak the same language and do not eat each other….such as demonstrated by the “lion visits dog dentist” video that watchful posted! Such peace.

  158. austin Jun 15th 2013

    Thanks for removing my earlier comments about Rome et-al – Andrew, it just goes to show that I might have been too close to the truth.

    The smart people on this particular blog response have all stated the history of Rome, or their experience with it, in relation to judging dreams, visions and prophecies from the Word, which is something that you did not do – and after more that 24 hours, still haven’t done!

    “Prove all things, hold fast that which is good” (1 Thess. 5:21) would seem to be the scripture that applies… so how about it? How about some good old fashioned ‘judgement’? Never – we’re too busy showing love… to be judgmental.

    Honestly Andrew, why do it at all? Why open yourself up to all this nonsense? I thought that you had left the “prophetic” movement, so why the sudden interest in dreams and visions???

    And why defend Catholics at all? Those who are hungry for God will leave Rome when the Holy Ghost has come in conviction on their lives, and no amount of dreams and visions will convince them before that time is due.

    Let me say it once more – the RC ‘church’ casts its shadow as a cult, due to the cultishness of its leaders, not its people, and yet there is opportunity for both to “come out of her my people” and not be partakers of her sins any more.

    Wouldn’t it be better to actually preach the Gospel to these poor lost sinners, than to try and defend their bankrupt spirituality?

    Austin Hellier

  159. Robert Jun 15th 2013

    Austin you have a very valuable point here.

    Look folks, I truly hope that those that are of the Lord, will LISTEN TO HIS VOICE and Come out of the catholic cult and yes, it is a cult. Only the Lord can call them out, BUT the question is, will they CHOOSE to come out of the catholic traditions and teachings , lay them down, RENOUNCE all the teachings and ask for forgiveness and COMPLETELY TURN AWAY FROM IT ALL and that means family and friends also that want to continue trying to bring them in and demonize them or lure them back in by promoting guilt or shame.

    I have been brought up in the eastern orthodox, catholic religions. I left it in the 80’s AND ALL THAT was of it. It is hard to leave all your loved ones and truly have almost nothing to do w/ them except on occation and yet love them because they are your family and also continue to pray for them.

    None thus far have turned from it, matter of fact, it has gotten worse and now that this new pope is trying to show “new ways ” and they are canonizing those they want to call “saints” , I can tell you first hand that they will not leave all behind. It is alot like the rich man and it will only be those that truly are seeking the lord Jesus Christ .

    Too many folks want to believe visions and dreams and that is o.k. but not all dreams and visions mean what “others” are interpreting them to be. There is no biblical verses in this , saying that this will happen. No one has shown me or others that Paul and the Apostles talked about dreams and VISIONS in the new testiment and no one has quoted them to saying “I had this dream and these folks in these places are going to come out and ….” Please show me if that is in the bible. I have yet to find it. Old testiment has lots of dreams and visions and yes, folks today have them, but until THE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH HIS HOLY SPIRIT gives you interpretation, then they are just dreams and visions. NO ONE ELSE HAS THE INTERPRETATION. Just look at all that is being said.

    Please, I pray truly for you that you will not stand in agreement w/ all this. I pray that you do your history work and realize what all has to be done in order for them to truly renounce, come out of and lay it all down unto our Lord, pick up their cross and walk w/ Jesus, and Jesus ALONE.

    I am leaving two excellent website articles /and website. It has everything you want to know about the catholic or eastern orthodox religion. Study it, allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and teach you and yes, so you can help others that you might meet that will say “THE LORD has shown me I was in a cult/ or the wrong religion and I want help to know the real Jesus , and ALL HE IS.

    May God bless you all and once again, Please do not accept all this stuff that is going on , it is a trick of satan and he is trying so hard to gather many evangelists and others from other churches that will agree and come along side these folks.

    We are seeing it by leaps and bounds in the states and it is everywhere. This is part of the dominion/Joels’Army protocol. It is their desire to join hands w/ all religions and they all practice and believe in so much that is not of the Lord from witchcraft to mysticism of “laying on of hands in the wrong way” allowing other spirits to enter in. Many of the big high top folks we all know, has got other pions that they have “anointed” transfering the spirits” and they are talking about the old testiment more than the new and mixing folks w/ all religions. BUT there is no true repentance, no talking about “you have been in a deceptive religion, ” there is no renouncing of the witchcraft and further they are all mixing the angels w/ the more new age methods of bringing all together.

    Please view these websites and learn so you can be approved by GOD NOT MAN. Learn from folks that have left the cults and can teach you and then allow the Holy Spirit to search YOU and allow HIM to have you lay down all your preconceived ideas, thoughts, teachings and desires. This is all about HIM not us. Work on yourselves not folly w/ other things that people are promoting. You could be entering in a trap w/ satan.

    Remember Lee Grady admitted he doesn’t really know much of the catholic religion , has never been in it. I am sure we all have friends, but until you are actually a part of it and then are truly removed from it and you are willing to LAY IT ALL DOWN FOR OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, one really doesn’t understand and a vision or dream will not teach you all that one needs to know.

  160. Lightning Storm Jun 15th 2013

    I have searched the words of Jesus Christ and do not find Him teaching/directing the JEWS who are born again to come out of the religion JUDAISM.

    Out of the Apostles named, ONLY Peter and Paul were told to GO TO THE GENTILES/PAGANS.

    Jesus Christ, and the Apostles, taught REFORMATION to the RELIGIOUS PHARISEES…….and taught REPENTANCE AND REGENERATION to the people under the slavery of the religious.

    Jesus and the Apostles did not teach that born again converts should “come out” of where ever they were at the time of salvation.

    They taught a SEPARATION/A SETTING APART of their HEARTS AND MINDS from the world and the false religions.

    As with the Apostles….the Holy Spirit will INSTRUCT some who are born again to STAY IN THE RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS or GO TO THE RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.
    The Holy Spirit will INSTRUCT some to STAY OUT OF THE RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS AND GO TO THE PAGANS…..the man on the street, in the jungle, in the cults, in the occult.

    What is with this COOKIE CUTTER mentality??


    The God I serve and worship is UNIQUE and has created each person UNIQUE, AND EACH PERSON’S JOURNEY ON THE NARROW PATH FOLLOWING HIM IS UNIQUE.

  161. Lightning Storm Jun 15th 2013

    Jhn 21:21 NASB
    So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?”

    Jhn 21:22 NASB
    Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? YOU FOLLOW Me!”

    Jhn 21:25 NASB
    And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself [!] would not contain the books that [!] would be written.

    1Cr 7:20 NASB
    Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.
    1Cr 7:21 NASB
    Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that.

    1Cr 7:22 NASB
    For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave.

    1Cr 7:23 NASB
    You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.

    1Cr 7:24 NASB
    Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.

    1Cr 7:26 NASB
    I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is.

  162. Jordan Shepherd Jun 15th 2013

    Cheers Margaret, I agree, we need to carry our cross.

    Three groups in the dream.

    1. Followers of Jesus, seeking and worshipping the Lord
    2. Leaders who rebuke the followers, and
    3. Those who rebuke the leader/s.

    The analysis – God rebuking the leaders … ???

    Next steps: Jesus said: If you love me, feed my sheep.

    I certainly hope that if God causes many to repent and believe in the Gospel, we will be ready to feed and nurture the sheep. That we will have learned to put away childish things, seeking to glorify God in all we say and do.

    Time will tell as to whether there will be a repeat of what I observed and experienced back around the mid 1990’s in my local Church; many “manifestations” and many responses to altar calls, but no genuine reception of the true and full Gospel. In addition, as the years passed, of the existing number within the congregation, sadly, a “falling away”.

    I was very busy at that time sharing the Gospel to make up for the fluff that elicited many responses in order that some may hear and believe. So Austin, I fully understand when you say, “preach the Gospel to the poor lost sinners.” Yes, the Gospel is the power of salvation! Let us pray that the Gospel is also preached with anointing.

    There will be a number who will always hope for an end time mass salvation of souls: not so bad.

    There are also those who think a “falling away” (apostasy, rapture, rise of anti-christ) is on the horizon and next event on the prophetic calendar: understandably.

    So, we either get ready to disciple many people, as well as fulfill our current responsibilities, or we position ourselves to keep oil in our lamp, love the truth and look forward to His appearing. Or both.

    Yep, I think we need to carry our cross. Live a godly life and receive your reward on earth – persecution; and in the life to come, a crown.

    Realistically, this dream would be one of many that people have in a local congregation over time and the discernment of the body would have apportioned the time and preparation they sensed it deserved.

    In real time, and in reality, the conversation we are all having above, reflects the conversation that already took place over the preceding decades. There are remarkable insights stated above, all of which testify to the diversity of gifts and collective wisdom within the body.

    I have assurance that should there be a sudden surge of a multitude of sheep requiring feeding as a result of massive outpouring of the Holy Spirit, all of us would gladly partake, in loving fellowship. For me, a manifestation of God’s power in this context would involve seeing countless thousands weeping in repentance and crying out to God to save their souls. Nothing more. Nothing less. Hence, a genuine reception of the true and full Gospel – through the narrow gate of Jesus Christ, the Shepherd and overseer of our soul.

  163. Many of the big high top folks we all know, has got other pions that they have “anointed” transfering the spirits” and they are talking about the old testiment more than the new and mixing folks w/ all religions. BUT there is no true repentance, no talking about “you have been in a deceptive religion, ” there is no renouncing of the witchcraft and further they are all mixing the angels w/ the more new age methods of bringing all together

    Robert, be blessed for flesh has not revealed this unto you,
    but Rather the HOLY SPIRIT.
    this is the religoin i have been warning and warning OF…….
    our adversary is clever. making it seem to be all about LOVE
    all about PEACE,
    Robert……………..even redistrubtion of wealth is
    of the dark one.
    OH…………..say they, all this money could be given to the poor…..
    but this they say NOT CAUSE they care for the POOR
    but because they HOLD THE BAG…………………
    judas iscariot……………..son of perdtion
    and now we SEE THIS SPIRIT at work amongst men
    to gather all unto peace, unity, safety……..
    but again though they join hands……………the wicked go not unpunished……………for about the time they have believed to acheive this world peace and unity, about the time many true saints have been killed, about the time many be exchanging gifts,
    and saying PEACE and SAFETY…………….THEN SUDDEN destruction comes upon them as uppon a woman with child
    and they shall not escape………..
    FOR so the day of the LORD shall come uppon them as a theif in the night, but unto us who are OF the day
    so shall we be with him , up to meet him………………forever .

  164. ARISE , awake………………………and CHRIST shall GIVE THEE LIGHT.
    prepare the trumpet……………….sound the alarm

  165. Suzanne Griffis Jun 15th 2013

    To Lightening Storm, Many thanks for your understanding of the working of the Holy Spirit. I fear that there are many who just don’t have ears to hear, so we must pray that they will. I am 68 and believe the Lord is calling me to move to Italy to take part in this great move of God’s Spirit.
    To Miss Bridgewater: I can fully understand being hurt/abused by one or more or the “church” which calls itself Full Gospel, But we can’t “throw the baby out with the bath water.” Jesus loves you and so do I.

  166. Jda016 Jun 15th 2013

    Dear Robert,

    I wasn’t quite sure if you were saying that you didn’t see any evidence of dreams or visions in the New Testament or not.

    I thought I’d just throw out several instances of dreams and visions.

    Acts 9:10-15
    Ananias is given a vision to baptize Saul.

    Acts 10: 1-8
    Cornelius the centurion is given a vision that he should send for Peter to come to his house.

    Acts 10:9-16
    Peter falls into a trance with a vision which is later interpreted to mean that salvation can come to the Gentiles. In Acts 11 the apostles and the brethren all discuss this trance/dream/vision.

    I believe there are other examples too, I just need to find them.

    Hope that helps if you were actually looking for dreams, visions, and their discussion in the New Testament.


  167. watchful Jun 15th 2013

    Yes, Lightening Storm, each one must be led by the Holy Spirit, I agree with that. It just so happens that He has led many many believers to “come out of her” in recent years. Because of the late hour we are living in. This has been necessary in order for Him to do a cleansing and rebuilding work in our lives and walk, and understanding, and to keep us from the delusion that has been rapidly descending upon the churches in judgment. I certainly don’t discount that He leads some back to churches when they are ready to be witnesses, although I don’t believe He goes against His own word and causes any to become unequally yoked. (If they are witnessing to the truth, how long before they wear out their welcome?)

    Maybe this will help… (think spiritual):

    Luk 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

    Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

    Luk 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

    Also perhaps:

    Act 13:45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.

    Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles….

    Hbr 6:18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.

    (remembering that the early Jewish believers were persecuted by their Jewish brethren…I’m sure you know a lot more than me about the specific history there, how long they were tolerated in the temple courts, etc)

  168. watchful Jun 15th 2013

    Randall, yesterday I saw a bumper sticker using the words of Jesus “Love one another” with symbols of probably every religion on the planet. I had seen this once or twice before in the recent past, but now it is more clear what it is all about.

  169. Paul FC Jun 15th 2013

    Jordan Shepherd….I don’t usually have the time or the will to read long posts, but your struck me from the off and I have to say I concur with everything you said in your first post.

    Some other posts however just don’t seem to get it. As Andrew said, it is about SOULS!! NOT THE RC INSTITUTION. How frustrating. As an ex catholic I love catholics and so does the Lord, I just hate the institution. The vision is about the people, they will be saved, the institution will be destroyed.

  170. Andrew Jun 15th 2013

    Well said, Paul.

    As I said earlier, many of the critics here simply have not taken the time to truly READ what LEE GRADY WROTE and WHAT HE DID NOT WRITE.

    Nobody here is defending the RC church or its dogma.

    We are simply wanting to see the PEOPLE saved.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  171. Roger (NZ) Jun 15th 2013

    Comments on other threads have called for a return to the church of Acts, and to ‘Body life’, where members of the Body of Christ are in unity with one another. Yet there is more..

    God did not create denominations, whether RC, Protestant, or any other religion – Paul and John were not laying down doctrine as such in their NT writings, they were testifying of ‘new life’ in Lord Jesus.

    Our focus must be the person of Lord Jesus who is Life.

    Until ALL individuals from ALL denominations, and all religions recognise Lord Jesus as the head of His Church (Ekklesia) that He is building, for His glory, that His name be proclaimed throughout the earth – as it already is throughout the Heavens – then Almighty God will continue to shake all of His creation.

    Almighty God has always had a plan, His Creation where He will live with man (Genesis 1,2) – He will see that accomplished (Revelation 21,22). Jesus (God in the flesh) came to Earth to save, not just ‘man’, but the whole of His Creation.

    He see’s the end from the beginning – He is Alpha and Omega.

  172. Robert Jun 15th 2013

    wanting to see people saved, as you write, Andrew, is not the problem. WE ALL DO, that is part of who we are in Christ, To see others come unto HIM and HIM ALONE.

    The problem is we do not need to have a “vision or dream” we simply need to have earnest prayers and be ready when and IF the Lord calls upon you to help when whoever comes out of the churches, whether it be a 4 squares, or a roman catholic that are being all mistaught in what ever “church, group or conference they are involved in”

  173. Robert Jun 15th 2013

    I am posting something that I have researched. Please read and do your own homework. I am also all for dreams, visions, signs and wonders but we ALL have to test the spirits and if it is not found in the bible then we really need to wonder.

    Earlier, there was a “glitch” and I could not post, so I hope this goes through and it does not get deleted. or worse, me get barred from writing.

  174. Averyl Jun 15th 2013

    Morning all! Just finished watching David Wilkerson preaching on “What is the True Church of Jesus Christ” on youtube.
    Hope I got that right!

    God bless& strengthen you all today!

  175. Roger (NZ) Jun 15th 2013

    A Japanese Christian, Kokichi Kurosaki, concerned about the damage done (in Japan) by christian sectarianism wrote a book, some 50 years ago, about unity, “One Body in Christ Jesus”, which may be found here:

    (I’m not promoting the site – just sharing the message in this book)

    Whilst considering the true centre and essence of Christianity, Kurosaki said this: “To the original disciples, Jesus Christ was personally the centre of their faith… They were baptised in His name, they prayed to Him, and worked miracles in His name, and found new life in Him, personally…”

    Do you believe that once we all stop adding to this division, and return to our first love – the person of Lord Jesus, that He is the way, the truth and the life, and that only when we all focus on Him alone, – that we too might have that unity that He desires we have with fellow members of His body..?

  176. Averyl Jun 16th 2013
  177. Averyl Jun 16th 2013
  178. Averyl Jun 16th 2013
  179. Randall, yesterday I saw a bumper sticker using the words of Jesus “Love one another” with symbols of probably every religion on the planet. I had seen this once or twice before in the recent past, but now it is more clear what it is all about.
    THATS HER WATCHFUL and shes in many different forms.
    NOW the big PUSH is at getting the unflocked FLOCKED again and into this peace and unity move. and THEY are HARD CORE
    at work.
    LET US FOCUS ON CHRIST and lets come again to HIS DOCTRINE…………We will find HIS WORDS
    in the BIBLE all over. THE ONLY WORDS we KNOW aint hearsay or mixed with the modern mix of many faces.
    I HAVE HOPE………………we all begin anew in CHRIST
    and come to the TRUE UNITY, which is centered on CHRIST
    the gosple…………..then the works which produce fruitation.
    ARISE and CHRIST shall give THEE LIGHT.
    souls must be saved.

  180. Roger (NZ) Jun 16th 2013

    Averyl – is this the sermon you watched…?

  181. tentacle upon tentacle, here and OFF SHOOT
    there another offshoot……………TIS NEW AGE IN MANY FORMS.
    SHES a MONSTER…………..yet appears as so loving in her many hidden forms.
    will ANY be made wise unto salvation through faith in CHRIST.
    all else falls short.
    its a say day, sadder that so many men now bring the MIX
    or the blend………………
    BUT that is ON THEM. Me………….TIS CHRIST ONLY
    and the BIBLE ONLY> amen.

  182. Claudia Jun 16th 2013

    To follow YHWH, you must repent of your transgressions and desire to live a life in obedience to Him. You must believe YAHUSHUA is the Son of YHWH, His Right Hand, and agree to follow Him as your Teacher, Master and Savior. You must believe that He died, and rose on the Third day and that He has the AUTHORITY to forgive our sins.

    Pretty simple….it is HIM you must know and obey, for REDEMPTION upon REPENTANCE comes by following HIM. To follow HIM you have to BELIEVE HIM.

    burn them books of scorceries
    IF a witch is IN IT………………..BURN IT
    the early church didnt worry about OFFENDING other religoins
    COME YE OUT from all evil……………………AWAKE and
    CHRIST shall give thee light. amen.
    they burned the OLD WAYS……………………..crucifeid the OLD MAN……………..and lived ANEW IN CHRIST>


  185. margaret Jun 16th 2013

    The Holy Spirit told me a few years after I was dynamically born again and water baptised (full emersion), to extract the precious from the vile. At that time my family were very wounded by Rome and scapegoated, but the only way forward for me was to obey and submit to the mighty hand of God: as a young person then I had totally rebelled and hated God and blamed Him…so believe me I have seen fruit as I have walked a path of obedience to God’s Word from both Old and New Testaments. I am full of awe and thanksgiving for that narrow path and for God’s love which after so many years I am only just coming to terms with.It has been a battle with unseen spiritual powers; what more can I say!. Jesus has done it all and we must put on the armour and fight the war with Him as our Major General (or whoever is of highest rank in armies; I am a foot soldier or possibly artillery sergeant)))!!!

  186. All lambs of the LORD…………………..TO THE LORD be all GLORY
    PRAISE, PRASE and Priase the LORD…………………..
    We have HOPE……………………………..we have HOPE
    hope that is seen is not hope………….
    but HOPE we await for…………..HIM…………………IS HOPE.
    Be blessed all lambs.

  187. I will be reading acts this evening………………all who
    want to join …………….FEEL invited and PRAISE THE LORD.

  188. Carina Arias Jun 16th 2013

    Thanks for your warnings.
    In my experience of Roman Catholicism, I found a general tendency to syncretism (well, the cult IS in itself a mix of Christian and pagan elements) and I would say a widespread attraction towards new age beliefs and practices. Most Catholics I know believe all religions lead to God, many do yoga, reiki, meditation, and some are involved in astrology too. I think this is not only the ignorance of the leaders who don’t teach the people, but there’s a spiritual element as well. Open the door to some dark practices (saying the Rosary, for example) and lots of demons creep in.
    And you’re right. This new age spirit is so seductive that any immature believer can be misled. It takes discernment and experience to recognize it. I see it in the doctrines of “prosperity” (name-it-claim-it), dominionism, techniques such as visualization, Eastern prayer/meditation styles… And this emphasis that doctrine doesn’t matter.
    It makes me sick.
    I grieve over Catholics in bondage. I grieve over New Agers in bondage. I hate that spirit. The people really believe they are in the truth… They believe it’s true love to tolerate and accept all (except us who seem so intolerant to them).
    My husband and I have the reputation of being extremists, radicals. Because we’ve said the truth bluntly many times, calling a spade a spade. (To atheists, Catholics, New Agers). But we have to be the voice that cries out in the wilderness, for the time is short.

  189. Lightning Storm Jun 16th 2013

    Dear Suzanne…
    I will pray for you and your spiritual journey in Italy. Father never sets us on the shelf… matter what natural age we are.
    What an amazing adventure you will have. Blessings and Peace to you.

  190. Averyl Jun 16th 2013

    Thank you Roger!

    Excellent word you shared with us, as always!

  191. Jordan Shepherd Jun 16th 2013

    Paul FC, acknowledged & thanks, I agree God is targeting people and he is no respecter nor discriminator, of institutions. Robert, our earnest prayers and our readiness to help – Amen!

    This is my last long post: Prayer is critical; not just because God hears, and answers, but because we can have our eyes and hearts opened, allowing ourselves to be part of the solution, rather than a potential hindrance to the plan and purpose of God.

    The testimony I alluded to in my first post regarding that one “RC” soul saved in four years after a thousand Gospel presentations, happened as follows. I will try and make it short as possible.

    I questioned a man’s understanding when I was told by others that he was going through the “Right of Initiation for Christian Adults.”The man shall be named “W”. W casually said that he was a Christian and that it was just a formality. Actually W was doing this so that he would be eligible by the RC board to teach in a Catholic School.

    I asked W how he became a Christian. W had no idea what the question meant. To cut the story short, W’s sponsor (called “C”) defended W, and asked me to direct my questions to him. The Lord led me to direct the conversation in a confrontational style which eventually led to the question: “How then can a man be saved?”

    This happened on the sporting field after a training session and the whole team looked on very surprised. C was placing obstacle after obstacle to derail the conversation. I left C and W with some final thoughts, respectfully.

    The next day I was getting ready to attend University lectures, however, I was disturbed at my attitude toward C. I said, “Lord, I cannot go through this day, let alone any day, harbouring some kind of attitude against another person (“Honour all people”). I began to pray in the Spirit and soon found the Lord interceding – in English – giving me the words to pray and the faith to see what the Lord saw.

    I continued praying and saw “C” saved, washed in the blood of Christ and instead of thwarting the efforts of those who spread the good news, now begin to spread the good news himself. I saw him (C) as God sees him; washed saved, delivered, anointed and mighty in the Lord.

    I left my home to attend Uni and the Lord spoke to me and told me exactly where C would be and that he was seeking me out. I went to the revealed location and C was there. He apologised for His actions and words, advised W to speak with me, then confessed to me all the unrighteousness he was involved in.

    The Lord gave me a word for C one week later, then told me to stop praying for Him. Another week passed which took me to my final week of four years of University. C came to me in that week and said the Lord gave Him a wake up call. I told C to join me at my home for lunch where we prayed, C surrendered to the Lord and was filled with the Holy Spirit. C then explained to me how he was a missionary in another country some years before but became ill and was abandoned by his team members (RCC) and left to fend for himself. I realised he was bitter, hurt and wounded, but praise God, he never let him go and restored him.

    Friends, we need to see people the way God sees them. We cannot withhold the message of hope and keep the light to ourselves. When we sense our heart is becoming hard, we ought to seek the Lord and allow Him to do a work of grace in us and restore us as His children, salt of the earth, light of the world. Let’s be there for all who are weary and have a heavy yoke thrust upon them.

    C left the University and later shared with me how he was preaching the good news to the Catholic priests in different Australian towns. He used the same full Gospel message that was delivered to him – a grace based repentance and faith, Gospel. Glory to God.

    Encouraging to see just what one person can do in the spirit and power of the Lord. The last picture I was left with before C left my city was seeing streams of tears flowing down his cheeks, saying: “If it wasn’t for you, I would be going to hell.” All the glory must go the the Lord Himself. May we also pray that the Lord of the harvest continue to send out labourers and empower us all with boldness, grace and wisdom that He may be glorified.

    The belief system I have concerning my own heart, is: Forgive at all costs. My conviction is activated by responding to God when I see my belief is being challenged or compromised. In this instance, I had to choose to trust in the Lord and lean not on my own understanding. Blessings to all.

  192. watchful Jun 16th 2013

    Amen Roger, that was beautifully said. As for me I once was a Catholic, then became a Protestant evangelical, but now belong to Christ alone, by His grace.

    And just to clarify, this thread is about the VATICAN being reformed, as far as I understand, and not just about saving souls in an institution. I don’t think anybody here would argue about souls being saved. It’s easy for things to get muddled or misunderstood in an internet conversation. But I would encourage a good re-reading of 2 Thessalonians concerning THESE days to everyone. These are definitely not the days to relax our guard and get sleepy, but to remain at our watchposts sober and alert.

  193. Roger (NZ), Wrote:

    Quote….Averyl – is this the sermon you watched…? quote……….

    This is a very good sermon by David Wilkerson.

    Thanks for sharing this one. That Brother is a blessing from the Lord.


  194. Is it unloving to point out that it’s not only the anti-Christ Catholic Church that is due for destruction, so the Lord can pull out His remnant from Babylon, but we must also be unloving to reject the money loving, world chasing, prosperity focused Pentecostals.

    Wake up, people!

  195. Do both.
    WARN the flock of error………warn these lost in that system of error.
    Warning is a good thing.
    IF it comes from a heart that desires the other NOT TO PERISH.
    the intent of the heart.
    WHY did we warn? Many think warners dont love or are accusers. WEll some are. some do judge and do so to their own destruction. BUT many warn out of fear for the others soul.
    apostels of the early days……………were warners………….as was
    CHRIST…………….and they were well rounded warners
    for they gave the way OUT……………………in CHRIST.
    CHRIST warned much more than many today think he did.
    I invite us to read HIS OWN WORDS and SERMONS.
    what is lacking to day………………
    that many no longer behold both the GOODNESS of GOD
    and the SEVERITY OF GOD.
    without beholding BOTH…………………… time these men
    will be completely LOST to either a self rightoues deceptions
    in time. NOW if any man desires to teach
    or a postion of deacon, bishop
    I strongly suggest the terms PAUL gave to timothy
    to a few others in letters.
    this i see lacking in MASS upon MASS of todays preachers.
    MASS upon MASS.
    MASS upon MASS.

  196. ONE of our is now heading down this
    road. i have seen him speak.
    he is focusing similiar to how TORRO did.
    but much, much less apsostacy than TORRO had.
    FOR TORRO was a GOD loves all man
    who once even believed as did we.
    YET in ttime in this sensual thought
    he grew into a man of all roads lead.
    I do fear for this man as well.
    THE sensuality begins very small.
    Like its okay to do this or that, if somehow good is in it
    or an allegory of GODS TRUTH is in it.
    they become worse over time. till witchcraft is seen as being
    good if it comes with allegories of CHRIST in it……
    FOR ALL RELIGIONS have allegories of Christs truth in them
    budda spoke similiar words, YET WAS FALSE
    allah spoke some truths……………YET WAS FALSE
    COME ye OUTTA them books of satan. and back to ONLY THE BIBLE . do so quickly , do NOT wait, do not hesitate.
    I can only warn one so many times.
    I pray they heed this last warning. amen.

  197. the devil knows how to work and seduce those whose minds have strayed from the truth.
    His wisdom is all FLESHED BASED.
    not SPIRIT of TRUTH.
    thus unlearned, unstable souls he can take and does
    take captive.
    get far from many who write now books for money
    and call IT christain………………….COME OUT FROM all.
    ARISE thou who slumberest and testest NOT all he hears
    ARISE and CHRIST shall give THEE LIGHT.
    the delusions are EVERYWHERE, and TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
    IT IS evil to write books with mythical creatures, witches,
    etc…………..then somehow see GOD in it.
    COME out from this. Just today, decided and be done with all mans
    writings, just go back to GOOD WHOLESOME WORDS of CHRIST,
    i plead for this man to hear, if not
    he will end up down a bad road. But i warned. i did what i was led to do, i did it because i fear for him and know this is not
    of GOD, and i did it for others sakes
    that they wont NEVER beleive its okay to do or believe such things. I am now CLEAR in this matter
    my hands now washed. BUT my heart still very sad .

  198. I was going to encourage you all today.
    But my heart is way too heavy for this man.
    If only they hear, if only they hear.
    I hope others will be praying with me in agreement for
    him. amen.


    Averyl, Roger, and all,

    This sermon by David Wilkerson should of been shared when everyone was discussing, “Why out of churchers need to be functioning as a church”, and “why some should come out from the apostate church”.

    I thought this dealt with the whole issue of why believers should be meeting together, and why believers should not stay in the dead churches.

    At least it’s a step in the right direction.

    Roger what did you think of this sermon?

    Thanks Averyl for sharing it.

    Lord Bless,

  200. Randall,

    Psalm 42:5
    Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.


  201. Most of Andrew’s posts of late, refer to the church at large not
    quite making it, one way or another. Whether it be denominational doctrine, false teachers, church governmentship or whatever. David’s you tube clip pretty much offers us all a challenge to do His way.

    A Call To Anguish by David Wilkerson – YouTube

  202. Roger (NZ) Jun 16th 2013

    GaryB – thankyou for the question 🙂 I have not yet listened to ALL of that clip that Averyl posted, however, the first 15 minutes spoke to me of the true Ekklesia (church) of Christ Jesus, and confirmed my own belief.

    A body of people whom He lives in and through, each member having had a personal revelation of Him as Messiah, Lord and God, and each one having that ongoing spiritual relationship with Him.

    Before His death, God, as Jesus, lived in a human body – after His death, He desires the same ‘life’ through any and all who will receive Him, and, submit and surrender to His Lordship over, and in, their individual lives.

    In that respect, we are then the replacement for the human body that Jesus was – with Lord Jesus being the Head of that body, and with the Holy Spirit being the unity through whom we hear and receive – teaching, guidance and direction.

    In a sense we already have ‘spiritual fellowship’ with other members of His Body, as we are joined together as ‘living stones’ in Him. When we meet, we ‘know’ each other through recognition given by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    The same 15 minutes of D.W. teaching, also confirmed that any physical meeting, where Jesus is in the midst – should be comprised of believers only. Those who have received that personal revelation, are born-again, and are continuing in that personal relationship with Jesus as Lord of their whole life.

    In Him we have our life and being, our life is in Christ Jesus.

    In His love,

  203. Roger (NZ),

    I know what you mean. I just ran across this article where they(Hollywood) are trying to get pastors to incorporate superman into their sermons.

    From magic lions to now superman.

    Like I said; I know what you mean.

    Lord Bless,

  204. Here’s the statement from one of the pastor’s who went to a screening of superman:

    Quote…..At first, Scott said, he didn’t buy the religious pitch. Then he decided to attend a free midweek screening in Baltimore.

    “When I sat and listened to the movie I actually saw it was the story of Christ, and the love of God was weaved into the story,” said the pastor.

    “It was something I was very excited about that with the consultation of our senior pastor, we could use in our congregation.”

    This is why we have not been able to find a church in our area.

    Lord Bless,

  205. Serenity Jun 16th 2013

    GOD is going to turn the institution upside down and break the idols. Precious Catholic souls are going to begin worshipping God in the Holy Spirit of truth.
    BEAUTIFUL !!! PTL !!!
    Who would have a problem with that ?

    So many millions of souls, imagining and hoping that they are following the true Christ and that they’ll end in Heaven.
    Will GOD not upend the institution in order to save as many as possible before the ‘end’ ?

    A blessing to see Pastor Wayne on here again.
    Comments from Marie, Suzanne, Carina, Jda, and many others show a heart, as well as zeal for truth.

    Thank you Andrew for sharing this with us. If only we could hear God’s heart behind the words.
    But please don’t swear by the heavens, brother, although severely provoked. Remember Moses.
    God bless you.

  206. we are already in the falling away.
    and if any cannot see this……………..draw nigh unto CHRIST
    and read ONLY BIBLE.

    Hi Randall,

    If we (thinking of the entire globe here) are already in the falling away how come I’m hearing that more people (around the world) are being saved today (worldwide) than ever before?

    Don’t you think it would be good to consider that (in a worldwide or global sense) before making such a pronouncement as you have above?

    If you are wrong (in your above pronouncement) then won’t you find yourself fighting against God (to get others to believe it)?

    Love you,


  207. Be blessed all lambs of the LORD.
    we in the falling away from SOUND DOCTRINE.
    some are still being saved however.
    some will still be being saved up till the DOOR CLOSES.
    THAT is when the MASTER of the HOUSE rises up
    THEN its either up to meet him in the air
    or for those who dont believe……….its wrath of GOD.
    a ONE time event.
    Andrew, the falling away in CHURCHES and etc
    many are now under the guise they are saved.
    not many, and if we does NOT REPENT
    and Come to THE TRUE JESUS………………there is no life
    thus they still in sin. YOU of all people should SEE and know
    that mass churches are preaching whatever tickles the ear
    and gleans the eye.
    and THAT aint JESUS. a TRUE lamb will SEE THAT.
    I DID, by GRAcE , but by GRACE i was kept ONLY IN BIBLE DOCTRINE.
    IF the desire of the heart is to seek ONLY CHRIST
    then we KNOW they OF GOD.
    but when they hear the mix and LOVE TO HAVE IT SO.
    they aint. can they be pulled out of this………..
    HOWEVER the falling away is getting ONLY WORSE NOW.
    to reach them souls. amen.

  208. Will the falling away get worse………………..YES
    mUCH WORSE, till the day OF CHRIST .
    still the lambs will do exploits to win souls
    and preach truth, and Godliness, HOLINESS
    COME YE OUTTA false doctrines and books of men
    who love the mix . Get YE FAR OUTTA there.
    after the first or second admonitoin reject, if THEY HEAR NOT
    dont be part of they evil deeds
    EXPOSE THEM. sensuality is creeping IN……………….
    and DOCTRINES of men of belial.
    STILL shall iwarn, and though i be loved less and less
    FOR men of belial love not the truth, but the mix,
    still i will warn them FOR LOVE WARNS and DESIRES none to perish. THUS warn i shall………………

  209. WILL abominations only worsen………….YES
    and the churches are going along with it
    for now its GOD LOVES THEM
    dont say being gay is sin………….support it…………….ETC.
    covetous abounds in churches ,
    who preaches PEACE………….and SMOOTH THINGS
    I SEE BY GRACE what is coming
    and the TRUMPET is given to all watchmen of GOD
    to warn the flock……………………….
    THUS I WARN…………………………
    but i encourage as well. MANY have seen this .
    I DO as i am led of the spirit TO DO
    and there aer way to many children playing with matches and gas,
    and i KNOW that end is BURNT UP.
    WARN THEM ANDREW…………………..
    YOU wanna teach…………………….BE GRAVE
    WARN , the mix is massive now, shes blending
    and the masses love to have this so………….
    GO TO THE LOST SHEEP…………………….GOD knows who are HIS……………….since we DONT know who will be saved.
    TELL THEM ALL……………………….AMEN>
    the god of self is death……………………the GOD of the bible
    is LIFE……………………..pick up the GOOD BOOK only andrew
    go back to humble beginnings.
    AND SEEE you WILL. amen. My prayers ARE FOR YOUR GOOOD…………………………amen.

  210. Hi Randall,

    How can we be in the falling away from sound doctrine when more people worldwide are being saved than ever before?

    Are you saying that the Lord is not showing these ones who are being saved the truth when He saves them?

    If people are being saved – more and more and more – than ever before (around the entire globe) then we – the Redeemed – are not falling away from sound doctrine but are being taught – more and more and more – the truth by the Holy Spirit living within us…

    If the saved ones (all around the world) are growing in the truth – which they are – and there are more and more and more of them being saved than ever before then the light is shining brighter in the darkness than ever before (which is what is occurring – light shines brightest in darkness)…

    The falling away is when there are less and less and less being saved (around the world) and evil is on the ascendency in the sense of more and more and more dying for their faith than are being saved to replace them (which we do not see occurring today)…

    This – the case where more and more and more are being beheaded for their faith than are coming to the Lord to replace them – is what we will see (as per Daniel 12:7 which I’ve discussed previously with you) during the “breaking of the power of the Saints”, i.e. the falling away, where the love of many (on the face of the earth) will grow cold, i.e. they (the unbelievers) will be controlled more and more and more by demonic spirits because the “salt and light” of the Holy Spirit through His Saints is diminished as there aren’t as many Saints left in the world…

    This is not what we see occurring today (worldwide)…

    Since the time of the Apostles the spirit of antichrist has been at work in the world (nothing is new there – there has always been spiritual wickedness in high places – nothing new there)…

    But during the falling away – the climax of the falling away – the literal man of lawlessness – the one who some call the Antichrist – will arise and that will truly be the falling away to which Jesus refers (and that will be new and unprecedented even in comparison to what Hitler achieved in his time – which some might have thought was the falling away but wasn’t)…

    Love you,


  211. Lynn 1 Jun 17th 2013

    Oh Andrew when I saw this I began to shiver, Red Flags Red Flags, I absolutely agree with what Frank has said here.

    Total deception and humanism at its finest. I am sorry but this article is just a tiny piece of a the puzzle of the one world church to come, the great whore of Babylon

    I do however believe the apostate church it will include all those whom have fallen away .the whore of Babylon will include much more than just the catholic church,

    I have come to the conclusion, many of Christ’s sheep have lost their discernment, are listening to men instead of Jesus himself !

    Andrew J you are right the falling away is here, the birth pains beginning to approach us.

    This One World Church Babyloian System will follow after the antichrist and hate and persecute and as Jesus said, kill many of Christ sheep.

    This is the purpose of the One World Beast System, for the antichrist will claim to be God a world leader whom will blasphemy God who will be engulfed by satan himself, and the whole world will follow after the antichrist all except those whose names are written in the Lambs book of life,

    I believe it very possible this new pope will help usher in this One World Apostate Church and possabilly the antichrist..

    Saints please pray for discernment, to discern the times please line up here what is being said with the very word of God. Many believe this Pope to be the last pope.

    Andrew I love your heart for the lost and for restoration and the love you have for the church, and yes we should pray and if possible minister the true gospel of Jesus Christ to catholics, wanting none to perish but we must be very careful not to compromise Gods word and the gospel for peace, I understand your heart is to see them saved, but not by mixture.

    Please read again what is being said here in this dream

    .- a movement to peace,
    – an equality & equal distribution of wealth,
    – end of the arnament race,
    – end of patriotism, nationalism,

    to a utopia & millennium reign by man.

    This above is what the antichrist will claim,and he will draw most of the world to himself.
    The millennium reign by Man?? the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ is the millennial reign.

    He will claim peace, end of nationalism,and equality, this is slowly being put in place even as I type, the coming together of the New World Order Beast System.

    This is a fairy tale, we will not see true peace an end to arniment and utopia until Christ comes.

    Saints please read your bible pray and ask the Lord to show you where we are on God’s time clock. so that you may stand in that the coming days approaching us.

    Now I do believe God is going to shake up all that can be shaken and he has said it will start with the church first. Absolutely.

    Are you being shaken – Lord help me I am – in ways that is breaking my heart but putting me on solid ground, he truly is preparing a rement for himself, saints surrender settle your heart it is going to be a shaky road but many will be saved out from it.

    Given in his love, lynn

  212. wonderful words lynn……………
    what is being done is by spiritual wickedness in high places
    the formation of a religion which all FLESH can relate too.
    this new age has many legs and tentacles
    but the pattern is sensuality, and the stopping of any sort of
    grave warners. NOW……………..when grave men dissppear
    the LEAVEN RISES MASSIVE. and so she is.
    BE grave men, warn others. time is getting short.
    a huge end time anti christ enlightenment is what we see
    beginning……………TIS in spriit of anti christ
    but its all about getting the world under the control
    of a few elites and a king.
    the falling away which we are seeing
    will go viral…………….
    soon it wont be just words and us being looked at as haters
    soon…………… will be actions.
    we are not only given to believe ON CHRIST
    but too also SUFFER for his name sake.
    against the church first……………
    IN these perlisous days ahead
    lambs will awaken , exploits be done.
    FOR NOW warn and warn many to COME OUTTA
    the WHORES SYSTEM, which is run by men of the elite.
    LONG has the spirit of anti christ been at work
    LONG, for these days ahead. the world is lost
    many churches now worse than the world.
    and those days be UPON US FAST.
    Warn all to come to CHRIST, to repent and belive the gosple.

  213. Andrew J you are right the falling away is here, the birth pains beginning to approach us.
    YES LYNN ITS HERE. and only getting worse and SOON VIRAL.

  214. dig in DEEP LAMBS……………………STAND UPON THE ROCK
    and our faith in HIM overcomes the world.
    SING LAMBS……………
    for though hard times be coming……………
    for this life is but a vapour, this body has its end.
    WE are greatful O LORD…………..for thy continuous mercies uppon us……………….
    and warn many ……………….amen.

  215. Fear is what misunderstands… 🙂

    We have nothing to fear from the Lord saving more and more and more people out of all the false religions of the world… 🙂

    If we can read the above article from Lee Grady and believe he is somehow involved (or encouraging involvement) in the great falling away then all that shows is that we are dominated by fear and are not seeing clearly with the Eyes of the Spirit… 🙂

  216. Suzanne Griffis Jun 17th 2013

    Dear Lightening Storm,
    It is not too many Christians I would want to pray for me, but you are one that I truly would covet your prayers, because I feel you have been tried in the furnace of affliction and have come forth as silver and gold. I also believe that the Lord is giving me an Italian mate (I’ve been totally alone for 25 years) and we will go forth to help bring in this amazing last day move of our Holy Spirit. Interesting due to the fact that at age 47 I was told I would be a quadraplegic in 6 months. I am now healthier than many in their 20’s. Thank Jehovah-Rapha!!! I put my email address on my first post, if you would like to email me, I will tell you of a specific, detailed dream about Italy that promted my last trip in April. There are parts that are amazing but I am waiting for a “veteran” saint to shed some light of a couple aspects.Respond if you feel led.

  217. Andrew ,
    NOBODY fears souls be saved. GET real and get outta this odd mindset.
    Are you serious…
    andrew your making no sense at all.
    ON the contrary………………….we are all about souls being saved.
    and genuine true growth and maturity.
    and honestly…………..this cant happen under delusoinal mixed teachings.
    Your speech falls short my friend. it falls way short.
    We here have indentified time and time again
    that the desire is for souls to be saved.
    your approach is all wrong. by trying to make the true lambs
    feel as though they FEAR souls being saved.
    Better check that spirit andrew. check it.
    NOT ENSLAVED to mens systems and worldy thoughts and mixes. saved by CHRIST and only CHRIST and reminded and encouraged by TRUE sound doctrine is what I, gary, and others stand united in CHRIST.
    The early apolstes warned and told men TO STAY ONLY IN
    bible doctrines.
    they were warners, as was Christ and also encouragers,
    as also was Christ.
    Andrew, i wish no evil upon you,
    But warn i shall, and only because i love.
    be blessed .

  218. MAY all lambs of the LORD be encouraged tonight .
    THIS day shall we sing unto our GOD.
    Let all thanksgivings be heard unto Him.
    SIng lambs, sing anew.
    Blessed be the name of the LORD.

  219. margaret Jun 17th 2013

    There were two criminals crucified with jesus , one was humble and accepted Him as God ( Lord being a term so easily bandied arround in this realm , why bother with it to be honest) and the other didn’t. John must have heard it happen because it was recorded…….there is a lot that’s has not been recorded recently…….however the Kingdom of God is ‘Righteousness , Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.’……… Some get it and some don’t….

  220. watchful Jun 17th 2013

    Amen, bless you Randall. I very much appreciate your warnings, encouragements and wonderful praises to the Lord our God.
    I bless God for His marvellous light which helps us to SEE. How I love scriptures put into simple songs……….Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path………..Amen, thank you Father. You are so faithful…deliver us from evil Lord, set our feet free from any snares of the enemy in your mercy and power, I pray, and thank you Holy One of Israel. Help us not to trust in ourselves, or in any man, but to trust in you because you are so faithful to lead and to guide…I don’t know much but I am so grateful that I know you, Lord Jesus my Christ, my everything.

    Good night to everyone up yonder, and good morning to everyone down under, I’m off to bed with praise and thanksgiving in my heart………..bless your people Lord, in your care and keeping..

  221. Roger (NZ) Jun 17th 2013

    The difficulty with looking at the numbers currently given of Christian conversion rates, is that the numbers include all (so called) ‘christian’ denominations, of which the highest % is R.C.C. – so when we look at a chart that says just under 2 billion christian, over 1 billion are R.C.C.:

    It would be a miracle indeed, to see ‘many’ RCC be converted to a true Holy Spirit regenerated life in Christ Jesus, with all the trappings and traditions being repented of, and shed – we may pray for this outcome, but only He can achieve this work.

    In truth the evidence in recent years shows the opposite – with many ‘protestant’ denominations being accepted back into the R.C. fold, and the desire that this ‘christian mega religion’ also accept other religions (Islam, Buddhism, New Age, et al) as pathways to God – true apostasy.

    This is the ‘falling away’ (apostasy), when ‘every wind of doctrine’ is taught and accepted as a pathway to God, and to eternal life, misleading and deceiving many each day.

    Yet, with all thanks and glory to God, there continue to be true conversions to a belief and faith in Jesus as THE Messiah (of the One True Living Almighty God) and Lord.

    Randall, and all others – I join in with your thanksgiving 🙂

    Praise His name, our Lord Jesus, the crucified and risen Messiah of Almighty God – the only living God with whom we may have a personal, eternal, relationship, the reason He created us.

  222. Andrew Jun 17th 2013

    NONE of these things is being preached in this dream-

    “- a movement to peace,
    – an equality & equal distribution of wealth,
    – end of the arnament race,
    – end of patriotism, nationalism,
    to a utopia & millennium reign by man.”

    There is not the slightest mention of anything like that in Lee Grady’s piece.

    Please be careful of the accusations you make.

    Thanks so much

    Andrew Strom

  223. Watchful,
    Just curious from your last comment. Are you a Kiwi? Just wondering is all.


  224. Jordan Shepherd Jun 17th 2013

    People, some perspective. Firstly, we would all agree there is much false doctrine and demonic manifestation occurring within so called Christian Churches. God’s word tells us this is one of the distinct end times signs, as is the formation of a one world religious system.

    Secondly, it appears that some are viewing Lee’s article with a degree of contempt, almost saying: Is this a set up from Satan? Are we going to stand here and passively accept some kind of subtle elevation of the Catholic Church under the guise of a prophesied reformation?

    While a degree of suspicion may seem to some to be justified because of RCC history, false doctrine and new age teaching infiltrating the Church today (& for the past 100 years!), it would be prudent to flag the perceived danger of the article as being a lure for others to put their trust in the RCC institution. Integrity would require further steps to make a conclusion. However, I would suggest caution in proceeding down the line of categorically affirming Lee’s article/dream, as a deceptive trap without further scrutiny and clarification, which would assist one to establish ulterior motive, if there actually be one, from Lee.

    Surely, discernment involves taking the next step, using also what God has given us – a spirit of love, power and a sound mind (includes our intellect). To that end, I can see why AJH addresses what he considers to be ill founded, or uniformed, fear.

    I am preaching here to myself also. Peace to all.

  225. Claudia Jun 17th 2013

    Andrew stated: “The falling away is when there are less and less and less being saved (around the world) and evil is on the ascendency in the sense of more and more and more dying for their faith than are being saved to replace them (which we do not see occurring today)…”

    Please consider… cannot “fall away” unless first they climb up on something. Therefore….the term: “FALLING AWAY”….is referring to those who have already climbed up on something, including those who seeming to come to salvation that you mentioned. I would suggest the rock they climbed up on may be RELIGION as presented by man according to man’s understandings….and man’s leadership….man pointing to themselves as the authority….training their following to look towards them for their understandings of the Word in the Bible….instead of grooming their followers to get in touch with the Holy Spirit, trust the Holy Spirit to shine Light upon the Path Way that they are following with YAHSHUA our LAMB….and have open discussions and gatherings around scripture meaning.

    They should be teaching that to be a Follower of YAHSHUA, one must start that commitment with the knowledge that they may have to give their life in the effort. Instead they teach a feel good doctrine of worldly betterment, and what can be gained by the individual….such as eternal life. They don’t teach that they may have to suffer…..but just the opposite.

    Because of this…..those who climb onto this “rock”…..a “rock” put together and supported by the authority and leadership of man…..when they are not whisked away from suffering and tribulation of the trumpets…..they will be disallussioned and they will jump off of that “rock”, possibly almost overnight!

    They were not taught that salvation is not about “THEM”! But, is about having YHWH’s WILL restored everywhere. HIS WILL, not their end game of eternal life. That is just a byproduct for those who earnestly want all that is not CORRECT and all that is EVIL destroyed forever from the Face of YHWH….so that He will never have to feel the sorrow and pain of it ever again. They were not taught that destruction and evil is here because of them,….we caused it! How can one repent if they do not acknowledge their part in all that is now here?

    Those who gather for the benefit of YHWH, not for their own benefit, are the ones that stand on the true ROCK established by the LAMB. Those who love YHWH more than themselves, those who would be willing to die forever if that were necessary, in order to establish YHWH’s Will. Those who would willingly give all of their benefits up, if it would make a difference.

    That is the attitude we must have, truly in our hearts….that is the attitude that makes all that we do, not a WORK, but a GIFT….because we are not working for our own benefit.

    I believe the falling away is taking place now, and depending on “how” the newly saved are being saved, and for what purpose…the falling away will become greater, especially when the false one appears, offering them what they really wanted….comfort on this world….if they are hungry…they want to be fed, cold, they want to be warm…..naked…they want to be clothed…..sad….they want to be happy…..alone…they want companionship. So they gather for “security”….they gather in fear….instead of gathering to for LOVE OF THE FATHER.

    How many truly would die for the one that they should love above all else? How many would risk their lives to help another..or to help His People? How many truly are seeking YHWH’s Will to be done on earth, and His Kingdom to come????

    Most are seeking the establishment of man’s kingdoms, under man’s understandings and authority.

    This is why He has planned things the way He has. Many will be shaken off the false rock…..and hopefully will come to the conclusion that it was never about them anyway… is all about YHWH’s goodness for all creation. Than they will be ready to revive and seek the TRUE ROCK! They will want to polish and praise and cherish that ROCK above and beyond their own life and needs.

  226. fabakary Jun 17th 2013

    In fact “one world government” or” ‘one world false religion’ where is it in the scripture ? is it in the scripture . It is a familiar word I hear here and there but cant as if it us in the scripture but i cant find it.
    I can remember How Daniel prophesy how the Government of God, (or the pure “religion” from above will destroy all the others kingdoms “) but as for a one world religion , I personally do not know where it is in the scripture.
    “And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.(Danv44).

  227. Lynn 1 Jun 17th 2013

    NONE of these things is being preached in this dream-

    “- a movement to peace,
    – an equality & equal distribution of wealth,
    – end of the arnament race,
    – end of patriotism, nationalism,
    to a utopia & millennium reign by man.”

    Pope Francis main push is for world peace, he has urged all religions and those belonging to no church and athiests to unite and to to defend justice, peace and the environment, he also states that God “has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. and said even the atheists. this a very contraversal statement for the Catholic church has always held on to one has to belong to the catholic church to be saved,
    He is very anti nationalism and speaks against people having more wealth than others believing in equality and distrubitution of wealth, he does believe very strong in helping the poor and is against homosexuality.

  228. Lynn 1 Jun 17th 2013

    Ok Andrew I stand corrected, I was showing what Pope Francis believes not neccessarly what was said in this dream, showing the huge importance we understand end days biblical prophecy and the Pope’s plans, he did say in the dream, the Pope stood in defiance of the change happening within the people.
    Like I said God has said he will shake “everything” that can be shaken, not just the catholic church as this dream portrays. Christima Magazine gave several articles covering the Pope as soon as he was elected.
    I personally believe him to be a very dangerous Pope who is universally minded New World Order player and with his peace and spreading the wealth will actually draw more people to himself and the catholic church.

    I you watch what some of the world leaders are doing now, this is exactly where they are headed including our President Obama.
    If he stays in office he will break America, which will bring world havoc, and it is peace and equality for all that will eventually usher in the One World Beast System and eventually the antichrist.

    It is the statement that all relegions lead to Christ all are saved, that this pope is encouraging that will Become the One World Apostate Church the whore of Babylon.

    I do pray as the birth pains begin to increase on fast forward as Jesus prophecied, as the world is in total caious as the New World Order is put in place, this is the shaking like none other, that the catholic church many come out from here and Christ true witnesses in these end of days his true light will be able to snatch some from the fire and they be saved.

    It is so important Christ’s saint’s awaken and begin to understand the days in which we are living.

    When someone like the Pope is preaching all will be saved, it is time we put on our spiritual armour and go preaching the truth to all people , for yes we are very close to the great shaking that is to come.

    In his Love, lynn

  229. Gary B!!!
    Be blessed in the Lord.
    watchful is a stranger in a strange land
    wherein she dwells, or resides in Canada…..
    as all we are aliens .
    THIS is a very SIMPLE TRUTH.
    Andrew, i myself cannot intepret the dream.
    Cept to say………………IT SHOWED a REMNANT
    who OPPOSE the catholic system.
    with that being said, instead of as many are now doing
    and waiting a a huge surge from GOD to save
    thus WHY WAIT , GOD knows who are his, who will be HIS
    we dont, only we know them by theirfruits.
    so while many keep saying this or that
    I SAY……………….GO unto the catholic peoples
    and all denominatoins of men
    and start SEEKING out the lost sheep, to GET THEM OUTTA
    those systems. The catholic church as well as many denominations are lost. systems of men and utter failure.
    Organization is good, IF IT BE OF MEN OF GOD
    not men of this world, heaping up large monuments,
    large costly buildings, false all roads doctrines,
    accpetance of sin. THOSE instutions must the PEOPLE come OUT OF………………..for SHES BABYLONE
    and her rule is upon earth, and over all men NOT OF GOD.
    BUT here we have no continous city
    but we SEEK ONE TO COME
    though by spirit the heavenly jerusalme resides in all believers
    SHE herself has NOT YET DESENCED.
    Even peter knew that when he said
    NEVERTHELESS, we look for a new earth, new heavens
    wherein dwelleth righteousness………
    so they false peace and unity i hear nOT
    for tis of this world. i speak of the system and its men of belial
    who have returned to the mire , who have returned to their own vomit again, and now exalt themselves, thus NOT GOD.
    THE TRUE LAMBS look not unto men OF this world
    in false stystmes teaching false hoods.
    THEY wander in a strange land and hear ONLY the voice of the shepard of the sheep.
    andrew……………….ROGER has been accurate big TIME
    and i dont lift up roger………….i say this because some are trying to just help you better understand.
    I wont attack the dream. You just understand
    the SYSTEM aint the answer. GOD ONLY is the answer.
    and many really are doing all they can to get all religions united
    back to the RCC, reallly its back to a new age form of religion
    of which many churches and the RCC instituion are all part of now. THIS falling away
    will soon lead to this new religion, which all flesh will be able to relate to , to some degree or another.
    But what comes next after ……………is a world wide HUNT for all who oppose any form of it.
    THIS will become LAW OF THE LAND
    when enough fear and choase , when the time of transgressors has reached the full
    THEN THE DARK KING stands to rule.
    and andrew…………………….by all signs , WE AINT GOT
    ONE STRONG DELUSION is all it would take.
    THE SYTSTEM IS ALL IN PLACE with glitches bieng worked out as we speak. the RFID system of satan.
    RFID is tied into BANKING, buying and selling
    and once the time is ripe
    will be admiinsitred unto the many who love NOT the truth.
    and BE YE RENEWED IN CHRIST. amen.

    SHE IS A SYSTEM which has infected many a church and the world. ………………
    feeding and heaping falsehood uppon lies, upon falshoods
    unto the unlearned and unstable.
    this is the warning………….

    calling the sheep outta false folds of men
    and into the ONE TRUE FOLD OF CHRIST.
    For the system of the WHORE is nigh complete,
    the transgressors have nigh reached the full……………
    and in the latter times of thier kingdoms
    when the transgressors have come to the full
    THEN a DARK KING arises…………….tis in daniel
    and these be those days……………
    STRONG DELUSON that all who believed not the truth
    but love unrighteouness shall partake, those whose names are not in the lambs book of life
    against all lambs……………..and HE shall have ppower to overcome the saints………………
    FEAR NOT…………..JESUS warned his own
    they have warned through out all ages……………
    THESE soon be the days of the things prophesied through all
    or doomed to destruction thtey will be.
    GOD knows who are HIS……………
    We are GODS peoples and must warn and
    encourage all to come to CHRIST NOW
    and away from all false institutions of men of belial,
    for these men are being given over to THEY own hearts desire, a lieing spirit has been sent amongst them , for they loved to have it so…………
    be NOT UNEQUALLY yoked.
    if any who calls themself brother, is a fornicator,
    covetous, etc…………… not even eat with such a one.
    ADMONISH THEM, warn them, but if THEY hear not
    MOVE ON. the time , the last hour is nigh upon the entire world.

  232. fabakary Jun 17th 2013

    Randell wrote “..many really are doing all they can to get all religions united
    back to the RCC, reallly its back to a new age form of religion
    of which many churches and the RCC instituion are all part of now. THIS falling away
    will soon lead to this new religion, which all flesh will be able to relate to , to some degree or another.
    But what comes next after ……………is a world wide HUNT for all who oppose any form of it.
    THIS will become LAW OF THE LAND
    when enough fear and choase , when the time of transgressors has reached the full
    THEN THE DARK KING stands to rule.”
    This is the teaching I am asking brother, is it in the scripture or a new revelation or is it a personal revelation . And if it not in the scripture does it not contradict Dan.2v 44 if it is a revelation ? When God says tomorrow will rain , Faith will forget about the seasons and will believe what Gods says and will leave to see it. If we focus on what circumstances is saying and not what God is saying or has said it will result in carnal fear , worry and fret and will cripple and limit our spiritual efficiency in Him. The counsel of God will stand at the end of the day. this awareness is peace and rest.

  233. unlearned or unstable men or women must be taught
    to SEEK OUT ONLY GOD, must be quickly tuaght
    the truth. THE WORST, the WORST thing to do
    is for anyone to encourage them back into churches.
    they will be led astray.
    and i will warn out till dead, against any man who teaches
    its okay to get them back into these churches.
    who have their senses fully devolped in TRUTH
    to discern between the good and the evil.
    as with pete, i warned this man ,
    eventually he went the way i feared he was headed.
    ANDREW…………………the same fear i had for pete
    i have for you. and as with pete it started small.
    and By grace, as i knew pete was in danger
    and saw hwere he was headed, he could not see
    and forsook and fled the warnings I, and a few others would give him. and in the end………..PETE fell away.
    NOW i warn you. burn those books. and read ONLY BIBLE
    come out from all reasonings of men.
    HURRY andrew. a few here can see this as well.
    and please read ONLY the bible . JUST start there again.

  234. watchful Jun 17th 2013

    hi GaryB, I was born in Auckland, N.Z. and transplanted to Canada with my family at the age of 5. So here I have been living “up yonder” in the Northern Hemisphere for 50 years now. The Lord led me to Andrew’s website at the time Lakeland broke out.

    This morning I happened to open my bible at Is. 21:12 “The watchman said, The morning cometh but also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye: return, come. But in that chapter is a prophecy about the judgment of Babylon. Then going over to read the judgment of Babylon in Rev. 17 , I see that there is a mystery in that Babylon the harlot and “mother” of harlots is responsible for the “abominations of the earth”. the worst of which to my mind are crimes against children………see in Rev. 18 that Babylon has become the haunt for demons and evil spirits. Babylon has become a harbour for them in other words, and they go out from there……….and that her judgment and destruction comes when the millstone is cast into the sea (v. 21)…….just as Jesus prophesied it would happen to those who “cause these little ones to sin”. And I see also where it clearly says to COME OUT OF HER so as to not have a share in her sins and judgment. (v. 4)

    I’m pondering also that the beast comes up out of the abyss (Rev. 17:8………when the restrainer is taken away I believe (2 Thess)……… the harlot rides the beast and uses him, and the beast USES THE HARLOT FOR A TIME and lets her ride on his back, but hates her and eventually turns against her. Haven’t we been observing changes for the worst in the harlot and her daughter………headline after headline in the past decade at least, exposing the sins of both, and spiritual apostasy.

    I had occasion in my capacity as a nurse before I left the profession, about 7 years ago to visit a Catholic psychiatric facility for priests, nuns and lay workers……dealing by far mostly with sexual problems in their ranks, and observed first hand how the gospel and word of God was not held up as a standard one iota, but rather the psychology of man and men’s reasonings only, absolutely powerless spiritually. I met the staff people and sat in on meetings, and loved them dearly, they were intelligent, capable, sincere and well-meaning and doing their very best to try and help, but the wrestle of course is with powers and principalities, and they knew not what they were up against. But that is when my eyes began to open to the fact that the church had actually become a safe harbour for these evil spirits to hole up in. I was seeing Rev. 18:2 with my own eyes. And her ‘daughter’ is fast catching up.

  235. Watchful,
    One time I went to give an estimate to a older Roman Catholic lady. When I went into her house I noticed in one room there was thousands of icons, statures, candles burning, they covered the walls and floor area.

    While taking some measurements she was saying something about the Lord, so me not thinking, asked her; Oh are you born again. From that point on she went into a mad rage, she grabbed a cross off of the wall with a little Jesus on it, and kissed it and then she told me I was going to hell because I followed the teachings of Luther.

    I am not kidding I could see the devil in this little womans eyes as she ranted against Luther. I did tell her at that point all my sins were under the Blood of Jesus. Then some serious demons started to manifesting. I was totally shocked and was not expecting all of this to take place. Finally I had to leave because it looked like the situation was going to turn ugly. l started for the door and she starts yelling your going to burn in hell with Luther and all the rest of them, God shows me who can come on this property don’t come back on my property.

    All I did was ask her if she was born again, I was just trying to make conversation and I thought she knew the Lord.

    Anyway that is my only experience of ever being around a Roman Catholic. There are some people in that cult who hate Christians and anything Bible related, no one can convince me otherwise.


  236. Lynn 1 Jun 17th 2013

    Gary the mentioning of the blood of Jesus many times will expose the darkness the demonic side of those whom are in need of deliverance. there is power in the name and blood of Jesus..

    Deception and mind control seem to run hand in hand even in the apostate institutionalized church,

    God has his Remnant, whom will go with the true gospel of Jesus Christ, this is who we are we bear his cross, we know the absolute importance of not to forsake the gathering together when at all possible and yes a few of these are in buildings but not partakers of the sins of the apostate church.

    Ley us pray for our brothers and sisters worldwide for Christ’s Remnant church he loves her and she loves him and is truly devoted to him.
    Blessings, lynn.

  237. Jerilyn Capaccione Jun 17th 2013

    We haven’t gone into a church in years and that does not mean my family are not one of God’s children. We were persecuted in the churches of today (New Age) and will not walk into any church today because of it. We are being persecuted without going to a church also in every way, daily. I would just ask that those who love the Lord with all their heart and mind would keep my family and I in prayer—the devil is alive and well and trying to get people into the churches where the lies are. My family and I are getting attacked from every direction and we need a lot of prayer. The enemy is trying to get my oldest daughter into New Age and I mean 24 hours/day working on it!!!! Please, I am asking for prayer from those of you who love the Lord and know what we are going through. Thank you for your prayers.
    Jerilyn Capaccione

  238. Lynn 1 Jun 17th 2013

    yes I will keep you and your family in my prayers. May have family bible study time as a family together and pray for one another. Coming out many times hurts, but it is always in obedience to the father we do this
    I wish I knew how to get ahold of you my daughter published a book on the new age movement back in 1998 I would like to send to you a copy she ended up publishing it because she had a friend involved in the New Age Movement and Praise God she saw the great deception and came out and began to serve the Lord

    Do you have facebook I can look up? I could send you a friend request. no one could come on unless you friend them. Just a thought.
    In His Love, lynn

  239. Lynn 1 Jun 17th 2013

    no need to reply I am looking at a way to find you.
    Love, lynn

  240. watchful Jun 17th 2013

    GaryB, that is an interesting picture painting a thousand words. It sounds like that woman’s idolatry sadly led to her possession.

    But I will say that I think most deceptive of all can be those who don’t get ugly but who are so nice and kind and well-meaning, there can be a comfort in their presence that you don’t find elsewhere, but often a false comfort of Mother Church and Mary the Mother of Jesus. I have to remind myself that all human righteousness is as filthy rags, and believe it even when I have to go against my own mind and feelings! “Ye MUST be born again” no matter how nice and kind you may be.

    A few years ago I had a vision that made me ill and weak and had to lie down. I had never experienced anything like it before. The vision stayed with me for several days, and then a few days later I read Isaiah 21 and realized that that was exactly what I saw in the vision. In the vision I was peering through a thicket and saw what looked like a caravan…camels, horses and a carriage with a man riding in it wearing a Pope’s hat and whom I understood to be a Pope. That’s all I saw and it was a dire warning, so urgent, and I tried to share it on Andrew’s previous website, I think the first revivalschool, on the first day of the vision, though I hardly knew what I was warning about other than that something was going to happen concerning the Catholic church and to beware. I would say I botched it badly, I hadn’t yet seen Isaiah 21 which is about the judgment of Babylon, (confirming that the spirit of Catholicism is Babylon) so didn’t even include that and as I said, had never experienced anything like that before.

    But now I am seeing a very possible connection with that vision and all that we have been talking about here…..and right now I believe there is coming what will largely be a false move within the Catholic church and it would take some hard convincing to convince me otherwise.

    So I say again to all of us, enquire of the Lord and stay close to Him……because the false will “feel” and “seem” so right, it panders to the flesh and the needs of the flesh……and don’t let anyone deter us by assumptions of fear or anything else. The deception that is coming will be unlike anything we have had so far, it is a strong delusion not a weak one. But it is the LORD who is doing the separating, so we need to pray to be counted worthy to escape these things……………

  241. Jerilyn Capaccione Jun 17th 2013

    I can give you my home email address if you want. Let me know.
    Jerilyn Capaccione

  242. Jerilyn Capaccione Jun 17th 2013

    I prefer not to do anything on my facebook page concerning this. I actually don’t use it much anymore because of all the persecution my daughter has had on there.
    I can give you my home email address. Let me know Lynn.
    I hope you see this message.
    Jerilyn Capaccione

  243. watchful Jun 17th 2013

    ….I will pray for you and your family too Jerilyn . Lynn will come back, I’m sure, as she comes here quite regularly, and is following this thread. I pray the peace of our Lord to you….greater is He that is in us than he who is in the world.

  244. Lightning Storm Jun 17th 2013

    fabakary….that is a very good and important point!

    If we use scripture ONLY, it appears that Jesus Christ sets up a ONE WORLD government AND a ONE WORLD “religion”!!

    I’m also interested in learning where people are getting this teaching that the kingdom of darkness is going to do this in the future.

    Hasn’t the kingdom of darkness ALREADY set up its own ONE WORLD government and ONE WORLD religion?? Isn’t that what humanity has been born into, living in, and dying in since the FALL of HUMANITY in the GARDEN?

    Humanity was REMOVED from the FULL PRESENCE OF GOD IN PARADISE and tossed out INTO THE KINGDOM OF DARKNESS……right on its “keester” until Almighty God sees fit to allow each one of us back into Paradise again……INDIVIDUALLY.

  245. fabakary Jun 17th 2013

    Yes Lightening storm I just don’t know where in the scripture that some found “a one world false government” and a “one world false religion to come” in the future . It contradict Dan2v44 and also the Lord about the end of the world the Lord did not say the false gospel will be preach in all the world and then the end will come, but he said the Gospel of the kingdom will be preach in all the world , not just one nation but all nations and then the end will come. The pure Gospel will be preach in all the world, the Light must prevail. It is better to believe what God says than what circumstances says. “if by the disobedience of one man many where made sinners ,so also by one man obedience SHALL MANY (not few ) BE MADE RIGHTEOUS (Romv5v18). Faith will say Amen to His words.

  246. Surely, discernment involves taking the next step, using also what God has given us – a spirit of love, power and a sound mind (includes our intellect). To that end, I can see why AJH addresses what he considers to be ill founded, or uniformed, fear.

    Amen Jordan… 🙂

  247. When the Holy Spirit told Peter that the Lord was going to save the Gentiles he really couldn’t believe the Holy Spirit either…

    I mean up until that time the Gentiles were “dogs” to him…

    Why would God want to save them?

    That must be heresy, he thought…

    God had to give him that vision of the sheet three times (Acts 10) to get it through to his “thick head” that God can save anyone He likes…

    Randall shared with us previously his testimony of how God saved him out of a perverse life of sin…

    If God can save Randall then He can save people out of the Roman Catholic ‘Church’ system, can’t He?

    If God can save and deliver me then He can save and deliver anyone He likes, can’t He?

    Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. (Acts 15:14 NASB)

    Peter was so “thick” that Paul had to rebuke him to his face for again falling for the lie that Gentiles were “dogs” and shouldn’t be eaten with in the Galatian Church – this shows how deep that “prejudice” against Gentiles was in Peter (is this ringing any bells for anyone?)…

    I have seen that “prejudice” against God’s ability to save “dogs” from among the Roman Catholic ‘Church’ system on this thread…

    I have seen it and I’m calling a spade a spade…

    Love to you all,


  248. Andrew Jun 17th 2013

    “When the wave hit, the palatial building began creaking and tilting.
    Antique tables, chairs, candelabra and statues began sliding to
    one side as the floor moved… The movement continued
    until the floor became the ceiling. More religious icons, statues
    and paintings fell and broke into pieces.

    “At that point I heard a commotion at the other end of the hall.
    When I got close enough, I discovered a group of Catholic nuns
    and priests who were praying in the Holy Spirit. They had their
    hands raised and they were worshiping God fervently, as if they
    had experienced another Pentecost.

    “The atmosphere was spiritually charged. Yet, as these people
    prayed, a man dressed in ornate religious garb began to shout
    angrily at them in Italian. He was obviously not happy with the
    way these Catholics were behaving. This upset me, and I began
    to rebuke him…”




    Blessings to all

    Andrew Strom

  249. Averyl Jun 17th 2013

    I see on an overseas news channel that the Pope just made a big booboo, claiming the heretical teaching of universalism, – that ALL people, even atheists, will be saved.
    The Vatican spokesman had to go into damage control.
    By this we can be sure the Pope is paving the way for the false apostle of Revelations.

    Lightning, – before our Lord Jesus Christ sets up His one world reign & one world “religion”, the anti-Christ will try to deceive the world into believing that his reign in the last 3 and a half years of this era is IT! (This is The Great Tribulation & it hasn’t started yet)). That is clearly stated in chapter 13 & 17 of Revelations.

  250. Averyl Jun 17th 2013

    “IT” in my previous post meaning the millennial reign of Christ.

  251. Marilyn Crow Jun 18th 2013

    In the article there was mention of a `positive & negative aspect.`

    On the `positive` side, we know from scripture that God is always drawing people out of darkness & to Himself. (Col. 1: 5,6,13)

    And on the `negative side,` we know from scripture that Satan desires the worship of man for himself. (Is. 14: 13 Matt. 4: 8 & 9)

    Thus the One World Religion is part of his deception. The final crunch will come when he sets himself up in the Jewish temple to be worshipped & gets rid of man`s religious trappings.

    Thus the One World Religion is but the drawing of mankind together till the `mask,` is taken away & Satan himself is worshipped. (2Thess. 2: 3 & 4)

    Lightning Storm had an interesting question.

    `Hasn`t Satan already set up his One World Government & One World Religion?`

    Satan is the power behind the world (2 Cor. 4 :4)the `god of this world,` but he has yet to deceive mankind into openly worshipping himself. Thus he uses a man with economic abilities & a charasmatic personality to control & cause wonder amongst people, with amazing signs. (Rev. 13: 11 – 17)

    This man will bring together all the religions of the world. People are now sick of war, poverty, famine etc, etc & will believe that at last someone is doing something. Then joining hands they will happily skip towards the foxes den saying `Peace & safety,` (The UN`s main declaration) only to find `Sudden destruction.`
    (1 Thess. 5: 3)

    `We are not of the night nor of darkness, so then….let us be alert & sober….`(1 Thess. 5: 5 & 6)


  252. Lynn 1 Jun 18th 2013

    Jerilynn I sent a friend request before I found this please ignore if you wish. I am sorry your daughter was treated so baddly. If you like you can put your e-mail but I would ask Andrew to remove it as soon as I acknowledge I have received it.
    Blessings, lynn

  253. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    Dear Averyl

    I have a hard time accepting that the people of the world will be that easily deceived into believing that a HORRIFIC BLOODY 3 1/2 YEARS OF TRIBULATION; MURDER; MAYHEM; EVIL DICTATORSHIP, ETC. is the genuine Kingdom of Heaven ruling on earth.

    I am still waiting for the scriptures that say this ONE WORLD idea is actually the devil’s idea and future plan.

  254. Averyl Jun 18th 2013

    Lightning, – I’m surprised you’re unfamiliar with these texts. perhaps you don’t have access to a Bible.

    Jesus said in Matthew 24:5, – “For many shall come in My name, saying, ‘I am Christ’ and shall deceive many.”

    Matthew 24:9-12, “Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, & shall kill you; & you shall be hated of all nations for My names sake. And then shall many be offended, & shall betray one another, & shall hate one another, and many false prophets shall arise, & deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold”.

    Matthew 24:21-24,- “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elects’ sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs & wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect…For as lightning comes out of the east & shines to the west, so shall also the coming of man be.”
    Note that these texts are addressed to God’s people & not to the world!

    2 Thessalonians 2:3-11. Oh dear, a visitor has arrived! Later…

  255. Jerilyn Capaccione Jun 18th 2013

    This is for Lynn:

    Can you give me your email address and that way we can email back and forth without actually putting anything on any website. I don’t want to talk on here. I have many, many enemies (working for the devil) who are watching everything I do and say. I just feel that my family needs prayer very much because of how the enemy is attacking us daily. My daughter and I feel like we are alone in this world with this whole thing. I know the Lord is with us but we still need human support. Please post your email address on here but if you don’t want to do that, I will post mine tomorrow (Tuesday) for you. I guess it doesn’t really matter because at this point, no matter what I do or say it is being watched.
    Jerilyn Capaccione

  256. Averyl Jun 18th 2013

    Lightning, – 2 Thess. 2: 3-11.

    “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes & exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God….and then that Wicked shall be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, & shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power & signs & lying wonders, & with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause shall God send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie…”

    As for those in the world, they will like the sound of promises of peace & communism & saving the planet, & will have to take the mark of the beast if they want to keep trading.

  257. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    Averyl, Hmmmm….still don’t see the words that say the devil is going to initiate a One World government and a One World religion in the end times/last days.

    I have said in other posts on other articles, that much of the Apocalyptic teachings these days are NEW. (taught since the 1700’s) The early church fathers (first few centuries) did not teach the same things we hear today about the last days.

  258. Marilyn Crow Jun 18th 2013

    Lightning Storm, Hope this helps…..


    A few years ago students from all over France held a demonstration. Their leader said,

    “We are deeply disturbed regarding the future of the world. We are looking for dynamic leader, `un Messie,` (A Messiah). …..We do not care where he comes from, or what his political views are, as long as he takes control of the world. As long as he lifts us out of our economic morass, we will receive him.”

    A leading USA TV personality & commentator said,

    ” We live in a leaderless world, give us a Messiah – like figure that will lead indeed.”

    Many international leaders, intellectuals & economists express the opinion that a strong & powerful charismatic `Messiah – like` figure is the only effective prospect for the survival of the world system.

    The Bible predicts that such indications would be symptomatic of the last days. In particular a dynamic powerful charismatic leader will assume rigid control – eventually over the whole world. He will eventually dominate every country, politically, economically & commercially, by the power of his own brilliance, personality & eventual ruthlessness.


    In the normal course of events the influence & authority of any dictator is restricted to his immediate national area. Only some cataclysmic international political, economic or military can provide the opportunity for expansion.

    In this instance, the aftermath of WWW3 & the complete annihilation of the Russian Army (Ez. 38 & 39) will create a political vacuum to be exploited. The great nations of the world will demand cessationof all conflict.

    Into this situation a seemingly benevolent leader will convince eveyone that he has the solution for every international problem. As confirmation of his capabilities, he will cite the successful transformation of the previously volatile Middle east. Further he will negotiate & conclude a seven year peace – treaty with the Nation of Israel. (Dan. 8: 25 & 9: 27)


    The magnetic personality, superior wisdom & eloquent diplomacy, so articulately exhibited, will convince not only national governments, but will enthrall, excite & captivate people of every class & creed. He alone will have the answers to the catastrophic dilemmas being endured.

    Statesmen, intellectuals & economists unanimouely acknowledge that finally there is available a dominant & powerful Charismatic Messiah with the potential ability to effect the survival of the whole world system.

    The `New World Order,` now has a probility to become a reality.Everyone will enthusiastically give their allegiance to his authority & propositions. The world – wide economic, political & social disasters will be miraculously solved. Utopia will have arrived. The world will be experiencing boom – times again.

    `By peace & prosperity he will conquer many.` (Dan. 8: 25)


    The brilliant & benevolent guidance & leadership that will be experienced by the world will be abruptly terminated after three & a half years. In one sweep by an assassin`s sword the great dictator is slain. The world will be stunned. Govenments will be in a quandary. He who everyone regarded as an invincible charismatic leader was dead.

    The one who alone had the practical solutions for all the international problems, had perished. The loss to the world can never be estimated. Every television program will be pre – empted to cover every facet of his `lying in state,` in full regalia.

    Suddenly to the amazement of the entire world, in dramatic fashion,
    `He who had the fatal wound of the sword came to life.`
    (Rev.13: 14 etc)

    How this counterfeit resurrection will be accomplished, it certainly will galvanize & fascinate the entire world. Immediately he will create an incredible sensation. The universal expression of every nationality, class & creed will be –

    “Who is like this man, who can equal his miraculous accomplishments?”

    His triumph will be complete, the whole world can conceive of no-one like him. They will hail him as their Messiah indeed. Men & women will be so captivated & entranced by his supernatural qualities & powers, that they will render him complete & willing homage.

    5. A CHANGE.

    Until now he had presented himself as a peaceful unassuming, yet brilliant & elequent diplomat. He gained popularity & acceptance worldwide by the amazing performance of simulated miracles. Now he assumes complete control of every nation. The facade of benevolence, tolerance & prosperity quickly evaporates. He will be a complete autocrat.

    `He was given authority over every tribe, people,. language & nation.` (Rev. 13: 7)

    Motivated & empowered by Satan he will appropriate dominion & authority as absolute dictator & despot. All opposition will be crushed & broken ruthlessly & mercilessly.

    `Power was given to him to exercise authority for forty-two months.` (Rev. 13: 5)

    Lightning Storm, that is how people will be deceived.


  259. Averyl Jun 18th 2013

    Lightning, – Revelation 13: 5-8, speaking of the beast, – “And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things & blasphemies; & power was given to him to continue 40 and 2 months…And it was given to him to make war with the saints, & to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, & tongues, & nations; & all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world…”

    13: 11- “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth…& he exercised all the power of the first beast before him, & causes the earth & them which dwell therein to worship the fist beast…and he does great wonders so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceives them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them which dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast…& cause that as many would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causes all, both small & great to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark…”

    That is obviously the anti-Christ & his false prophet imposing the One World government & religion. The whore, mother of harlots, Babylon the Great is represented by the false prophet & her location is the city on 7 hills.

    So I don’t know which “early church fathers” you refer to.
    I’m simply referring to the Bible & that is not “new”!
    The scriptures weren’t generally available until the period you speak of, in which case apocalyptic texts would have been discovered & examined.

  260. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    Sorry…….but whenever this subject comes up I get the same verses repeated over and over along with an INTERPRETATION of what the verses are REFERRING TO. What the verse is insinuating.

    The verses that speak about Jesus Christ setting up HIS One World government and His One World religion are very clear and precise… need for INTERPRETATION.
    In other words….the verses say what they mean.


    That statement is clearly saying WHAT Jesus Christ is going to do, and that we had better be praying for it and fitting into His Plan to achieve it. (there are other verses that talk about Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven ruling the earth)

    Where are the verses that speak that clearly about the devil setting up his government and religion?

    Am I being told that the word “beast” means the word
    ” devil” or “anti-christ?

    The definition of Beast {Greek word therion}
    to be distinguished from zoon, almost invariably denotes “a wild beast.” In Act 28:4, “venomous beast” is used of the viper which fastened on Paul’s hand. Zoon stresses the vital element, therion the bestial. The idea of a “beast” of prey is not always present. Once, in Hbr 12:20, it is used of the animals in the camp of Israel, such, e.g., as were appointed for sacrifice: But in the Sept. therion is never used of sacrificial animals; the word ktenos (see below) is reserved for these.

    Therion, in the sense of “wild beast”, is used in the Apocalypse for the two Antichristian potentates who are destined to control the affairs of the nations with Satanic power in the closing period of the present era, Rev 11:7; 13:1-18; 14:9, 11; 15:2; 16:2, 10, 13; 17:3-17; 19:19, 20; 20:4, 10.

    The definition of BEAST is a long way from saying that it is a ruler of a One World government and One world religion.

    The influence of fictional “christian” books and movies have influenced the imaginations, speculations, and thoughts of our carnal minds.

    2Cr 10:3 KJV
    For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

    2Cr 10:4 KJV
    (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

    2Cr 10:5 KJV
    Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  261. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    Here are just a few verses that clearly tell us WHO’S ONE WORLD SYSTEM is running planet earth. (has been for over 6,000 years now)

    Jhn 12:31 KJV
    Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the PRINCE OF THIS WORLD be cast out.

    Jhn 14:30 KJV
    Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the PRINCE OF THIS WORLD cometh, and hath nothing in me.

    Jhn 16:11 KJV
    Of judgment, because the PRINCE OF THIS WORLD is judged.

    Eph 2:2 KJV
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, the SPIRIT that NOW worketh in the children of disobedience:

    1Jo 2:18 KJV
    Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that ANTICHRIST shall come, EVEN NOW ARE THERE MANY ANTICHRISTS; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    1Jo 4:3 KJV
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and EVEN NOW ALREADY is it in the world.

  262. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Yes lightening storm the teaching of this “one false religion “ or “one false government “ just amazes me as I cannot yet see that in the scripture. Some will go by far saying all how things are going to be in sequence , “a three and half years “ , a communism , a catholicism moving to this and that and I keep asking myself “where is this in the scripture ?”. When our lord spoke about the end times he mentions of wars earthquake but he said this are just sign and not the end. He clearly state that “the gospel of the kingdom will be preach in all the world and then shall the end come “. But folks talk as if the world will end “in a falling away “. So people are dominated by unbelief , resulting in carnal fear etc and so closes their hearts , to the power of Christ. The world will end by the gospel being preach in all the world not by a false gospel, saith the scripture. If you recognize the authority of satan but do not know and recognize your authrirty in Christ that alone is defeat. How do you see the sinners around you , people that must remain under the hands of satan because Satan is so powerful ? then you can never receive anything beyond that. The work of God must first start in faith and end in faith.
    One thing is the book of revelation speak link the past the present and the future. Look when John says “I saw a lamb as if it was slain “ .He was not speaking that which was to happen in the future , but that had already happen on the cross. There is no more authority to be give to Satan but that which has been given to him in the fall. The authority Satan had over the nations, tribes and tongues was taken by Christ in the resurrection. Christ Has given this Authority to his church.

    ‘After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which NO MAN COULD NUMBER, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb (Rev7v9 ). (John says the multitude cannot be number by man , but today population is being number by men. What John say is the inclusion of all the ages of the church . This chapter is also a hope that Many many more people will come to the Lord, through the instrumentality of those that will believe the Lord and not circumstances.
    ”As thou hast given him Authority over ALL flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (John17v2)
    “All authority has been given to me in Heaven and on Earth ….. Go ye therefore and make disciples of ALL nations. (Mat.28v18-19)”
    “I was watching in the night visions , and behold One like the son of man , coming with the clouds of heaven He came to the ancient of days and they brought near before him . Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom , that all people and nations should serve him . His kingdom shall not passed away, And his kingdom the one which shall not be destroy (Dan7v13-14). The church is given the authority over all nations and flesh . Why do we like talking as we just recognize Satan authority ? That is defeat.

  263. LS,

    I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying 6000 years. If you systematical go through and calculate ages and time periods of the patriarchs up to this present time the number is closer to the 8000 to 10000 range, that men have been on this earth since the garden of Eden.

    I lean to a little over 8000 years man has been on this earth. Either way 8000 or 10000 it is nothing compared to all of Eternity.

    But 6000 falls far short of all the information given in the Bible. I just did not understand why everyone in a number of comments keeps quoting this number of 6000 years.


  264. Jordan Shepherd Jun 18th 2013

    Well surmised Marilyn Crow.

    The strong delusion that is coming will severely undermine the foundations of Scripture and extends to the manipulation and control of political, economic, social and physiological systems. I would be at a loss to explain how controlling buying and selling for “all” small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, does not equate to a form of government on a world wide scale. Friends, let us treasure His Word in our hearts. “Great peace have they who love your law, for nothing shall make them stumble.”

  265. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Gary B, do you have those calcualtions for us? I would like to see them.

    My research is from the various Jewish Calendars, who claim to be counting time since a certain point (I think it was from Adam…I would have to look it up.)

    I would be careful in those calculations that one does not overlap or underlap ages, keeping in mind that many that were mentioned were here at the same time. God will not strive with man beyond 120 Jubilees.

  266. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    ……..are you familiar with the verse in Revelations 14 that states an, or some angels (messegers of God) are going around the world in the later times near when Babylon has fallen, announcing the Gospel? Possibly also in Rev. Chapter 10 (tho this rainbow giant dipicted may also be the dragon proclaiming “his time”…not sure yet), and again in Rev. Chapter 11, it talks of the role of the Two Witnesses, which we know all the world can watch, as for sure the world witnesses them laying in the street dead, and than resurrected….so it is highly likely that the world is also witnessing their message. God gave man a chance to spread the Gospel, but He does not rely on man….how foolish that would be…man not yet transformed!

    But, most importantly the scripture found in Rev. 14….verse 6:

    Revelations 14: 7-12 =And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel TO PREACH UNTO THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH, AND TO EVERY NATION, AND KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Before the last ACT, God makes it extremely clear to mankind!

    I wonder….is the city Babylon, New York…..or Rome…..or could it be both?

  267. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Claudia the city of Babylon being Rome or new york ? wont that mean all the sinners are living in Rome or new york , since they are called to come out of the city ?
    Yes the messengers of the Gospel to the nations is through the Church ; but when unbelief and fear reign, then comes the limitations. You don’t just sit and fold you alms and say “whether I have faith or not it will work ” that contradict the scripture, for he that doubt receive nothing. And worst to have the mentality that “only few of those I share will accept the gospel because the days are evil etc ” . This is not faith, faith stand by what God says and His will.

  268. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Me personally, I would memorize this message from the angels in Rev.14:7-12, for I believe it is the heart of the revival message that can take place during these times with all these signs that surround us.

    WHO DO!

    We can even now see the taint of gain without earn, esteem without honor or worth, the taint of liberalism that is spreading the way for the dragon and his spawn, seeping into the minds of man, and into the works of man’s hands. “The end, justifies the means”, philosophies.

    Then: Having received the Gospel of Jesus Christ, comes the time soon when we must EXERCIZE PATIENCE, RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND FAITHFULNESS TO THE END! Do not be swayed by what happens in the world….your understandings and some traditional teachings may be shown wrong, our interpretations may be wrong…..but YHWH…and the reward of His Son, Yahshua, Jesus our LAMB is TRUTH, do not let go of His Hand, The Right Hand of God.

    Verse 12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  269. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    I am not sure I follow you, Fabakary. Spiritual Babylon is everywhere and it will fall…no doubt of that. Yes, Spiritual Babylon is also false religious institutions, immorality, etc., but it is also commerce for excessive gain and profit, and usury…so we should include the banking system and the stock market in our Babylonian count.

    I was speaking about the city that also exists in this latter day world….the one that scripture speaks of with those in the sea, the merchants of the world, see burning and the entire world mourns at the loss.

    There is a also a literal symbolic city that will be destroyed as a “sign”.

    As to any city…..God does not want man to live in vast cities, and gatherings of man. Only bad things come from the massive gatherings of man….these cities are not sustainable…..and most will see hell on earth when these things begin to happen.

  270. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Fabakary….you best re read what I wrote. I did not say we should sit and fold or arms. We have been told to go forth. I was just stating that you also need to be aware that God also does not rely ALONE on man. He also will get the message out!

    This entire Age of Man….represented by the Sixth Seal….6 is the sign of man….is ALL ABOUT HUMBLING MAN AND THE WORTH THAT MAN PLACES UPON HIMSELF!!!!!!!

  271. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    There is no GLORY in any man…other than the reflection of God. No man should boast of what they have done for the Kingdom of God, and bask in his accomplishments…..for nought has been shown yet, the judgement has not come yet, we don’t yet know the silver and gold from the hog dung. Only God can judge the value of any man.

    We ALL should be on our faces, crawling towards YHWH with our bellies in the dirt, tears in our eyes for what we have done….recognizing how unworthy we are before YHWH. We could and can accomplish nothing without Him working through us.

  272. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Claudia one things is you dont need a literal fire to distroy false religion, let the people become anew by the fire of the Holy ghost , and nothing false will exist. Somethings when the scriptures speak of destruction we mainly see in on one side; forgetting the Holy ghost has fire that come to destroy the false. Without literal fire , by the fire of the holy ghost all false religion can be destroy if they meet the living Christ. The apostles at jerusalem use the fire of the holy ghost to turn the world upside down . Today many are calling for a literal fire to destroy the false religion because we lack the holy ghost fire or limited by unbelief.

  273. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Also….God has never called man one of His “angels”. The Scripture I gave regarding the angel that goes about the world….is not a man or a group of men, or all men preaching the Gospel since it started.

    It is an ANGEL….A MESSENGER OF YHWH….used throughout to deal with earth from time to time.

    Don’t forget….there are fallen angels too, that will be returning to earth during the 5th/6th trumpets….like in the times of Noah and Enoch…..and they are not messengers from YHWH, but are following the dragon….the one who wants us to worship him, instead of YHWH.

    These very fallen angels will deceive many, who do not know their scriptures, who relied on the teaching of another man, instead of searching out the entire Scriptures…and relying on the Light of the Holy Spirit to teach them.

  274. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Are you saying, Fabakary, that all in the Bible is spiritual, and none of the events discussed are literal?

    Physical reality of what is going to happen is conjoined with Spiritual reality. Don’t dismiss either.

    The FLOOD in Noah’s time was not just a spiritual event. Just one example of thousands.

    I do not dismiss the power of the Holy Spirit….not at all.

  275. watchful Jun 18th 2013

    We already have a global government, it’s just a matter of degree, how much power it is given to wield and where it is concentrated.

    Night IS coming………..but also the morning, when the Son of God rises with healing in his wings, our blessed hope. There will be an hour of testing to try those who dwell on the earth. So many scriptures point to a time of great trouble (such as the world has never seen) before the return of the Lord Jesus to usher in His kingdom on earth. And strong delusion with counterfeits of the true things of God. Amen Averyl. So surely there is enough even in those scriptures to prepare us and be forewarned.

    As Marilyn is showing, and proving, the desire for a human Messiah is already in the hearts and minds of men………as well, every major religion is waiting for one. Bear in mind too that the restrainer is being taken away.

    But for the Christian whether in good time or bad, good government or bad, our mission doesn’t change, and it will still remain true that all things are working for the good of those who love Him. Not one word of scripture will fall to the ground. The Lord changes not.

  276. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    “Are you saying, Fabakary, that all in the Bible is spiritual, and none of the events discussed are literal?”
    Not at all Claudia , that is not my view at all. I was just saying the fact we are giving the spiritual FIRE , to destroy all false religion without literal force or fire. False religion are make up of people. If those people are in Christ the false will cease to exist , it will be destroy and cast like a stone in then sea never to be remember again, because “behold all things Have become New”. This is How Christ kingdom is establish not by literal violence. He came to save Lives not destroy. It is the enemy that destroy and lead to Hell, Christ gives Life. The Church is a giver if Life and its FIRE destroys the false spirits not the flesh.

  277. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Marilyn, Your understanding is the common one….and may be correct. However, I would keep open, because there are factors that could change the scenerio, and fit within what has been written about these things.

    1. If the 70 “sevens”(original text states “sevens” instead of “weeks”) in Daniel are literal years (the Jewish Sacred Year which covers 7 months=Mar/April through Sep/Oct of each calendar year, contains 7 Holy Sabbaths and 7 Holy Feast Days)….the peace treaty would only be one year long….broken after 6 months.

    2. The antichrist may be at first a system, created in the dark with a few world powers (Russia/China/America’s current leaders, and the World Banking system) ….possibly Europe …joining for world domination and take over of the Middle East….and establishment of global rule.

    3. They may orchestrate war in the middle east to achieve this means….with Israel winning the first three, and the sons of dark winning the next three (according to writings from Enoch’s time).

    4. This dark United Global system, using the UN, or some other authority establishes a one year peace in Israel, after winning the 4th war of the series….establishing Global control to implement “peace” in the area. (their first step in taking over the region)

    5. The fallen angels and the one that rules over them comes during the 5th/6th trumpet war….6 months into the peace established by the World System. They may even appear as saviors or the false Messiah that the Jews and the Arabs, etc. wait for. Remember the scripture that states “who would go up against them”? They are so powerful that the entire world would fear going against them. I believe this power comes from fallen angels…off world visitors coming to finally establish their reign upon earth….taking over the World global system that has been formed by the dark powers of earth that have already formed the system…..just waiting to push the button.

    6. These returning dark angels put to “death” figurative the Global antichrist system made by man…by their very presence, and possible by the trumpet battle 6….and the Beast (Dragon) takes over the dead system of man….bringing “peace” to the entire world….offering solutions to all of man’s problems….possibly deceiving some of the Jews who by worshipping this Beast/messiah, “finish their transgression”(Dan 9:24). An abomination to YHWH!!!! The Beast finally claims Godhead on the 1,290th day, demanding worship or death. Blessed are they that come to the 1,335th day! Pray that you may be hidden in Righteousness (Yahshuwa) when this indignation passes over. Pray that you are one who loves His Truth, which is His Way, His Will, over and above how you think things should be.

    7. The 7th trumpet sounds with all that is written about it. The last trumpet announcing the return of the True King of Kings, our LAMB, Yahshua, …..ALPHA AND OMEGA! His faithful people are transformed, those who loved His Truth, those who died in Him are resurrected….and the Vial Wrath begins the cleansing of the Sanctuary for His Mellinium Reign….His Kingdom come!!!

    ………….because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

  278. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Lightning Storm;

    if the false one establishes his reign upon the earth, and most are convinced (as are the Muslims) that the Christians and Jews are the problem….and if his rule is established with power, miracles and sign and wonders….would not many who now think they are christians, think they were deceived and fall away and accept this new revealed false messiah? Especially when he is giving them what they really want….which is comfort and security. Than when this false messiah finally turns upon those who deny him and hold onto the Truth of Yahshua and love the Truth unto death, and he starts HORRIFIC BLOODY 3 1/2 YEARS OF TRIBULATION; MURDER; MAYHEM; EVIL DICTATORSHIP, ETC., upon these Christian enemies…..would not the world think that was right….because these enemies are denying the one who supplies them?

    Are you not aware that this in places in the world even today on a smaller scale is going on….and is accepted?

  279. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Fabakary; Daniel 2:44 is God telling us WHEN His Kingdom will be established. It is not a verse that is giving us details of those times…as do many other verses in the Bible. There are many other verses and scripture which tell us what will happen during these times, before God’s Kingdom will be established.

    Dan.2: 43-44: And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    We should never take one verse without applying the entire Scripture of the Bible to determine the meanings in that verse.

  280. watchful Jun 18th 2013

    fabakery, I think you make a wonderful point about the fire of the Holy Spirit this side of the cross. (although I’m not sure anybody here is calling for literal fire)

    But can you please tell me how you understand what we are being told in 2 Thessalonians 2….? That the day of the Lord will not come until the falling away and the coming of the son of perdition happens first..? And that his coming is accompanied by counterfeit signs and miracles and strong delusion…? Because we seem to be seeing the signs of these things all around us in these days, at least in North America, but maybe you don’t see it where you live yet. Here, I will post the passage:

    2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

    2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2Th 2:13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

    2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

    2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

  281. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Fabakary and Lightning Storm….Yes…the world we now live in since Adams fall is a place of darkness….but also upon this earth is God’s LIGHT….but neither kingdom has established physical control yet. Scripture concerning the beasts from the sea and the land, clearly speak of an established end time kingdom…not just a spiritual one.

    Just as God’s Kingdom will come in it’s FULL Glory before the earth is remade at the end of the 1,000 years of His Reign, God with Us……so too will the dragon’s kingdom on earth come to a head, the dragon with us….just prior to OMEGA returning to reign over all the kingdoms of mankind.

    It is part of God’s PLAN to separate out the tares….those who delight in and flock to the dragon’s actual physical rule upon the earth….coming in the 5th and 6th trumpets (Rev. 9 & 10). The dragon claims what he considers his right to rule upon the earth.

  282. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    The two below scriptures clearly state that a physical man of sin, the son of perdition (the dragon) is to be revealed before my King of Kings returns, Alpha and Omega. The dragon is revealed and people make their choices, face to face….and than Yahshua is physically revealed upon His return to carry out the Vial Wrath and His Kingdom of the Day of the YHWH.

    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

  283. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Watcful “That the day of the Lord will not come until the falling away and the coming of the son of perdition happens first..? ”
    Watchful it is not about the falling away. The scripture says a falling away that will come first. And the Lord spoke about the wars and the rumors of wars , hating of one another that will come First, but did it stop there ? What about how he conclude the gospel of the kingdom will be preach in all the world ?It is only in this time the Lord says “the world will end ” . Doesn’t it appear if the Church will have faith in Christ authority and power the world will end in a universal “revival” ?imagine what John say “a multitude which no man can number “. Think of that. H e say COUNTLESS saved.

  284. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Watchful; I think you interpreted your dream correctly. Especially with what I found out about for the first time this year regarding the Catholic observatory in Arizona that is watching for something to come to earth….something that they think is spiritually superiof to mankind, and they are even now preparing documents to support what is coming. They have made statements that man will have to reread the Bible with this new understanding that is coming. That scared me when I first heard about it.

    Also, the below scripture when I first read it, I thought of the Catholic Church and all the damage that was done because they forbid their priests to marry! God’s Old Testament law clearly stated that the priest had to be married.

    1st Timothy 4:1-6=(1)Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in THE LATTER TIMES some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (3)FORBIDDING TO MARRY, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.(4)For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

  285. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Fabakary; you just posted: What about how he conclude the gospel of the kingdom will be preach in all the world ? It is only in this time the Lord says “the world will end ” . Doesn’t it appear if the Church will have faith in Christ authority and power the world will end in a universal “revival” ?
    What is your interpretation of the scriptures below?

    Do they not seem to state that ANGELS are the ones that will be successful in proclaiming the Gospel throughout all the world? Man is to try…but God still has them do it…before He stops striving with mankind. It is very clear WHEN these angels are doing this announcing….END TIMES, just before the 7th trumpet which ushers in the Vials of Wrath, the 3rd Woe, worse than all others.

    It appears to me that man has failed spreading the WORD, and that the dragon has been successful in taking over those blinded because they did not love the TRUTH. It appears to me that the falling away has already taken place before the Angels were sent out by God as a last chance warning… like my loving Father, LORD before He stops striving with man. Perhaps many at this last minute will turn to the TRUTH and Believe…..but it may also be just a remnant…and many will die.

    Revelations 14: 7-12 =And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel TO PREACH UNTO THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH, AND TO EVERY NATION, AND KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  286. watchful Jun 18th 2013

    fabakery, it is hard communicating this way sometimes, I agree with you that it is not about the falling away, I think you do have a point, it is about the gospel and the power of God unto salvation, but on the other hand don’t we need to know what season we are in and to be warned and admonished etc? One thousand years ago or two hundred years ago it wouldn’t have been an issue for those believers living in those days. But I don’t want to fall away and I’m sure you don’t either. So you do agree though that the falling away will come first…and the son of perdition….?…and the victory of our Lord that you are speaking of will culminate after that as I understand it…..meantime I believe we need to be aware and watchful in these days, because these days in particular are perilous days spiritually speaking.

  287. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Yes Claudia literal angel Collaborate with human messengers of God in the work of the Gospel, I believe that. The scripture says of them “as ministering spirits that are sent forth to minister to those who will inherit salvation ” Angels are always at walk , with Gods human messengers , but you do not have to see for them to their assignment.The angel of God was with the children of isreal from eygpt , it was doing the work in the spirit, yet in the physical only the human vessel where visible. The authority to preach the Gospel to the nations is already given to the Church, and all the work of Angels is to collaborate with church for this vision from the spirit realm , they are not to do this work alone by themselves. So we don’t wait for angels, we just walk by a heart of faith that believe God, and seek the manifestation of His will in faith; and all other things will follow.we may not necessarily see the How it happens , like seeing the Angels at work.

  288. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Yes I don’t want to follow away either watchful . But the ending of the fall away , is the responsibility of the church. We are not to sit and watch it going on. It is written “because of the elect the days of the reign of evil shall be shorten ” . Christ says about about the elect when he comes on the earth “shall the son of man find faith on earth?” . With Faith to believe God , and do all works that originate from God in faith cannot be stopped by any other power.

  289. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Dan 2: 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

    Who is “they” in the above verse? Who is the “they” that mingles themselves with the seed of men?

    Is it the tares? Are the tares referred to as the IRON mixed with the CLAY? We know man has a clay body.

    Above this verse 43, there is more description of this “iron”.

    Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

    I lean to the interpretation that the tares in the latter time manage to be the last kingdom before God’s. This tare kingdom, the seed of the Dragon, subdueth all things, and breaketh all things into pieces, brusing and crushing, troddening under the Sanctuary. It is spoken of elsewhere.

    Dan 7: 7-8=After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    This interpretation would also fit well all other scripture that states that there will be a One World Global Rule of the Dragon that by it’s “peace” will destroy many into everlasting death…..before the Kingdom of Alpha Omega is set up after the cleansing of the Sanctuary (Earth).

    Our Earth was made by Jesus Christ to be a Sanctuary and a place of Redemption.

  290. watchful Jun 18th 2013

    Claudia, the vision happened during the day and I was wide awake….I lay down off and on because of feeling ill and weak, but never fell asleep (except at night because the vision stayed with me a few days). But now that I see the connection between that vision and what has come up on this thread, I’m convinced more than ever we need to be alert to the strong possibility of a false move/deception of some kind from the Catholic church……. and I think this is no small thing because what I felt during the vision was a feeling of dire emergency that I could hardly bear up under. I have only ever had one or two other waking visions besides that one, but nothing like that before or since, ever.

    And I want to say that I agree with you that these things are all in the plan of God to separate, to test, and to humble mankind. He is very much ruling and reigning still.

  291. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Fabakary; I, nor anyone else is saying that we just sit on our hands and wait for the work to be carryied out. Not at all.

    I am saying that man should never take the AUTHORITY to himself for the Work. We are the slaves, we do what the Master says. But the glory should never go to the slave. Nor is the slave the end all of all. The Master has His PLAN. Part of it involves the slaves (us)….the rest of it is all about ALPHA AND OMEGA.

    The slaves are given the assignment we have been given, as a test of ourselves, unto obedience, and love, and self sacrifice. But we are not the ones that the HOPE lays within, or depends upon. We keep working unto death for our Master’s cause….even tho we know that we fail in this age to achieve the end results….but the transformed Saints will not fail, for they will fully share in Yashua, being His Right Hand in the Mellinnium.

    If man of clay could prevail against the dragon, why is the dragon removed until just before the Mellinnium ends…the last hour, the last 40 years of the Mellinnium?

    It is the HEART of the man of clay that prevails! Those who are obedient to their Master.

    And, we cannot even take credit for that….because our Hearts have been renewed by Jesus, Yashua, our LAMB!

  292. Claudia Jun 18th 2013

    Watchful; I totally feel and believe what you write regarding your dream/vision. I get a horrible sense of things to come. We cannot conclude….but we must be very very very careful and alert, always waiting and leaning upon the Holy Spirit for revelation and understandings!

  293. fabakary Jun 18th 2013

    Thats ok Claudia. Stay bless in Him.

  294. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    Claudia…….Read the news of the world and read the scriptures….how can you say that the devil’s domain/kingdom has not been ruling mankind and the earth since the Fall of Adam and Eve?

    The devil has been given a TIME to be the PRINCE OF THIS WORLD by the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD THE CREATOR OF THIS WORLD.

    The devil’s time came to an end when Jesus Christ was VICTORIOUS over the devil and his dominion/kingdom, sin, and death, finalizing in HIS ASCENSION to the Father.

    For 2,000 years the GENUINE CHURCH has been given the POWER, THE DIRECTIVE, AND THE AUTHORITY to do the “mop up” AFTER THE VICTORY.

    Many people teach that the church is still battling for VICTORY!!! That the Victory will come when Jesus Christ returns. No! Not True!

    Everything that’s occurring in the SPIRITUAL UNSEEN REALM, happens FIRST……..THEN IT IS MANIFESTED IN THE NATURAL for us to SEE.

    Definition of “military mop-up operation”

    verb (used without object)
    to clean or wipe with or as if with a mop (often followed by up ): First he swept, then he mopped up.
    Verb phrases
    mop up,
    Military . to clear (ground, trenches, towns, etc.) of scattered or remaining enemy combatants after attacking forces have conquered the area.
    Informal. to dispose of; complete; finish: He mopped up the rest of his business and went on a vacation.

    Even today, the world calls the troops left in the CONQUERED land, PEACE-KEEPING TROOPS.
    The troops bring RECONCILIATION.

    We are each called to the MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION.

    We live and exist in the kingdom of darkness…..even though we, who are born again, are citizens of another kingdom.

    Col 1:13 NASB
    For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

    Jhn 12:46 NASB
    “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.

    Act 26:18 NASB
    to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

    Isa 42:7 NASB
    To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.

    Isa 42:16 NASB
    “I will lead the blind by a way they do not know, In paths they do not know I will guide them. I will make darkness into light before them And rugged places into plains. These are the things I will do, And I will not leave them undone.”

    Luk 1:76 NASB
    “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High; For you will go on BEFORE THE LORD TO PREPARE HIS WAYS;

    Luk 1:77 NASB
    To give to His people the knowledge of salvation By the forgiveness of their sins,

    Luk 1:78 NASB
    Because of the tender mercy of our God, With which the Sunrise from on high will visit us,

    Luk 1:79 NASB
    TO SHINE UPON THOSE WHO SIT IN DARKNESS AND THE SHADOW OF DEATH, To guide our feet into the way of peace.”

    Jhn 1:5 NASB
    The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

    Jhn 3:19 NASB
    “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

    Jhn 8:12 NASB
    Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

    Rom 2:19 NASB
    and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,

  295. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013


    There are only 2 kingdoms. Each person belongs to one or the other…period.

    The Kingdom of God
    The kingdom of darkness, ruled by the devil and his angels.

  296. watchful Jun 18th 2013

    Agree with what you wrote above Lightning Storm, but still that doesn’t take from the fact that certain things have to happen as foretold in scripture before the mopping up culminates…?

    No, fabakery, you are right. The elect are not to sit on our hands and do nothing. But is it possible that we can resolve all this somewhat by remembering the different parts of the Body..? It seems that we sometimes seem to be at cross-purposes, or different emphasis because of differences in giftings..? Some are watchmen for the house……real “stick-in-the-muds” and party-poopers often, we would rather not be, but it can’t be helped, since we are responsible to report what we see. But you are absolutely right we should not lose sight of the finish line and why we are here, amen and point taken.

    If you or anyone has an interpretation of why the Pope figures prominently in Isaiah 21 concerning the fall of Babylon in the vision I was given, I would appreciate hearing it. It was like peering through a thicket, and he in the carriage/chariot and the rest of the caravan (horses, camels) passed by into view as it were from behind some bushes….speaks to me that I was seeing something hidden. Occurs to me that Catholics are fond of processions, in some areas it is a common practise on certain feast days. I’m pondering whether a fall/judgment necessarily has to mean physical destruction or dismantling, worse than that is to fall spiritually..?.

    Amen Claudia. I would much rather hear a happier interpretation if it were possible, if anyone knows how that could be in truth, I would be very glad, but right now I just don’t see it. May God bless His people and keep us all from the hour of trial………………

  297. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    A “watchman” in scripture is a prophet.

    When a prophet of God receives a vision, dream, prophecy…..God has given them REVELATION to go along with it. A REVELATION IS UNDERSTANDING AND INSIGHT (the particulars/the details) of God’s plans and purposes.

    The person who has the “gift of prophecy” is only acting under the Holy Spirit’s unction at the moment……that person may or may never receive understanding and insight.

    In either case, as it is with ALL who call themselves FOLLOWERS, the person should INQUIRE OF GOD for the INSIGHT AND UNDERSTANDING.

    The Holy Spirit is our teacher and is DESIROUS to teach us ALL THINGS.

  298. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    watchful….the mopping up culminated when Jesus ascended….the mopping up will be complete when the kingdom of darkness is completely consumed by the Kingdom of Heaven filling the whole earth…Rev 21.

    The Kingdom of Heave….the place of our dearly departed ones; the place of the Throne of God; the place of the Heavenly Jerusalem and the Heavenly Tabernacle of God that Moses and the Apostle John both saw.

    It will happen just as the Transfiguration happened in Luke chapter 9.

  299. Lightning Storm Jun 18th 2013

    sorry watchful….culminate is not the word I wanted to use.

    The mopping up process BEGAN……

  300. watchful Jun 18th 2013

    That’s very interesting what you said about the transfiguration Lightning Storm.

    To tell you the truth I’m not entirely clear on the “office of a prophet” after the cross, however, as far as I understand all prophets are watchmen, but not all watchmen are prophets. Because there are plenty of watchmen in the OT who are not prophets but just ordinary soldiers who climb up onto the wall and keep a lookout. I think all apostles are watchmen too, they would have to be….look at Paul for example and how he was on guard for the church constantly.

    In any case the Lord has only called me watchful and I don’t consider myself to be a prophet, just to be clear. For one thing I have never been given prophetic words per se. Just that for as long as I’ve been a believer I have been watching and discerning, (though, not understanding, I hardly ever spoke up in the early years) so I guess am a little pair of eyes in the Body.

    And one thing that I DISCERN is that randall lowry has been given discernment for this new age deception which is very subtle and very hard to discern in it’s early stages so to speak …….so I pray that his warnings are taken seriously. I witness very much with what he is saying, since the Lord was beginning to show me the same thing about new age in the church, when along came mr. lowry and confirmed it and made it much more clear. I believe it is nothing less than THE strong delusion.

  301. Lynn 1 Jun 18th 2013

    Andrew could you please remove Jerilyn’s E-M address from this thread she posted it for me to send her a book I have.
    Blessings and Thanks, lynn

  302. Lynn 1 Jun 18th 2013

    Watchful please take the whole content of scripture into consideration.. 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-5 Paul is speaking to the saints that had by some way been told they had missed the catching away, refered to today as the rapture. He was telling them that they had not missed the rapture basically they were lied to.

    He goes on to tell them the rapture of Christ saints can not take place until the great falling away which is on fast forward now in these end of days Jesus also spoke of love will wax cold many will fall away in Matthew 24.

    Paul continues on to say – AND – the man of lawlessness is reveialed this man of lawlessness is whom we call the antichrist today he then describes this man of lawless claiming to be God and blasphemy God and speaks of the Obomination of Desolation exactly what Jesus and Daniel have spoken of.

    We know Revelations tells us the antichrist is given 31/2 years to overcome Christs saints so I believe this is the last 3/12years of the tribulation many refer to as the Great Tribulation he is them possessed by satan.

    I believe shows we will be here for the Seals and the trumpets, where the 7 trumpets are within the sixth seal to be opened upon the earth and each trumpet to take place,

    If one looks carefully there are an additional 75 days left over after the specified days of the tribulation., I believe we are raptured out of here, just prior to the 75 days, and the Bowls of God’s wrath is them poured out upon un-reprentant men whom Revelation says they repented not and they blasphemy God,

    It is my humble understanding, we will not believe we are here for the Bows of Gods Wrath.,.God has promised us he would shorten the time for his saints and also we would not receive his wrath twice in the new testament.

    The very beginning of the tribulation I believe we will see the birth pains beginning to unfold . Famine War peace taken from the earth, probally the One World Beast System being put in place, during the first half.

    Please go to the scriptures test all I have written test everything by the word of God.We know and see in part but the Lord told Daniel we would begin to have understanding of the end of day.

    Blessings, lynn

  303. This is slightly “off topic” but does “link in” to a number of things which are being discussed here…

    As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

    And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

    “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
    (Matthew 24:3-14 NASB)

    I am not claiming to understand all of this perfectly but I do believe I understand the following “simple” (I think) division into two parts of what Jesus spoke above…

    Part 1
    “See to it that no one misleads… all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.”

    This paragraph I believe to be referring to where we are and have been since Jesus ascended back to heaven from the Mount of Olives (where He was sitting as He spoke those words)…

    The key statement in that paragraph is, “See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.”

    This is key because fear causes dissipation and hinders us from completing our mission on this earth which is to make disciples of all the nations, baptising them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to observe all that Jesus has commanded us…

    Part 2
    “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill… and then the end will come.”

    This paragraph I believe to be yet to come. It is typified by the death of the Saints – like Daniel 12:7 indicates – and this will occur during the last three and a half years before Jesus comes back to the air and then down to the Mount of Olives – as mentioned in Zechariah 14:4 – during the first three and a half years of this last seven years people will be saying, “peace and safety” and during the last three and a half years of this last seven years “sudden destruction will come upon them”…

    All these events will focus on Israel – the physical nation of Israel – they involve a physical temple being built in Jerusalem and physical animal sacrifices being re-instated…

    We do not presently see this occurring – preparation for its occurrence might be going on “behind the scenes” but we don’t physically see this occurring so we know that we are not yet in this “Part 2”, i.e. the falling away, which Jesus refers to…

    We are presently in “Part 1” and are to be about our Father’s business, i.e. the salvation of souls…

    Even when we are in “Part 2” we are still to be about our Father’s business, i.e. the salvation of souls…

    So in summary, whether we are in “Part 1” or “Part 2” we are still meant to be about our Father’s business, i.e. the salvation of souls – even if we lose our own lives in the process…

    The pre-occupation with studying current events (which is not “Bible, Bible, Bible” by the way – how can you only be reading the Bible when you are also reading about current events?) is that we get weighed down with dissipation and fear of what is to come (before it has even come – and the Grace to handle it will be given to us once it actually has come, not before)…

    God doesn’t want that for us – to be weighed down by dissipation through fear… 🙂

    He wants us to be about His Father’s Business – Matthew 28:18-20… 🙂

    Hopefully this is encouraging to someone… 🙂

    I’m not living in fear regarding what is to come… I know enough (not that I know everything perfectly) to be prepared and to get on with the task at hand – I am not living in fear… 🙂

    Love you,


  304. Lynn 1 Jun 19th 2013

    fear causes dissipation and hinders us from completing our mission on this earth which is to make disciples of all the nations, baptising them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to observe all that Jesus has commanded us

    Yes I agree we need not fear for the Lord has told us those whom truly are his he will never leave nor forsake us he will get us through it all.

    I look at having some of a grasp on Revelation actually can help us not fear, truly our faith will be tested.

    It is the unknown the laziness the comforts we live, being unprepared, our world turned upside down, will certainly bring fear to many, but knowing even in part we draw so close to our Lord we allow him to purge us and prepare us. Join yourself daily to our Lord,

    Our focus now and then will be the harvest for we shall be his witnesses throughout the whole earth.
    Blessings, Lynn

    Getting back to the dream, I would say our focus would also be on prayer and mission towards the catholic church and actually any whom the Lord puts in our path to go and make disciples.

    Blessings, lynn

  305. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    Watchful; Is it possible that in the Dream as you were looking through the foliage at the procession…….that you were the one in hidding?

    Isaiah 26:20-21 Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, the Lord
    comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity. The earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain.

    What is there to fear? Death? Our lives are already covered by the LAMB. I guess torture….as the Roman Church used much of that in their purging of the fold. For those who are called, I imagine they will be covered by their MASTER YHWH…..much like Daniel in the Lions Den. For all the rest….it will be like a pregnant woman coming to her time of delivery….painful, but great expectations making up for it. It will be a time of quiet expectation, trepidation….knowing our King will soon make His appearance.

    I feel that at the very end, before the 7th trumpet sounds, those who do not lose their Faith in the LAMB, having done all that they can…..will be in hidding for a short time…..(much like in the first Passover) possibly only 45 days…..but it could be for 5 months or a bit longer.

    Lynn….The 7 Trumpets are consecutive, (except for the first 3 which appear to sound almost simultaneously) much like when the walls of Jericho were being weakened, and eventually tumbled. They circled the walls 7 times. and at the 7th trumpet the Vials are given out.

    Both the trumpets and the Vials are within the events of the 7th Seal Removal….instigating the Day of the Lord. The Vials are given out when the 7th trumpet sounds. The dragon’s walls are tumbled and the Vials of Fire are poured into his hold to burn him and his out.

    The Sixth Seal which is open now….slides into the 7th Seal removal after a catastophic world event occurs….shaking the entire world. Whether that is economical, or physical I don’t know. It could be the foundations of both are shaken. I expect it this Fall or early winter.

  306. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013

    I am going to my dear friends place this week-end. She was a Pentecostal & is now a Catholic. She has some notes prepared to share with me on `Why the rapture is a myth.` So would appreciate your prayers as I don`t want to get into an argument.

    I`ll listen to how she will explain it so I can understand where she is coming from & the `bottom line,` error that is there. I was also thinking that `What is the worst for me believing I am to go with the Lord prior to the tribulation,( the Lord not pouring His wrath onto His Body). I would just then move into the tribulation.

    However if it is correct that we, the Body of Christ go to be with the Lord prior to His pouring out of His wrath,& my friend is not looking for this, then her worst is to go through the horror of the tribulation, & to realise that she has missed out on being part of the Body.

    Let no one rob you …… Marilyn.

  307. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    Marilyn – As you know there are a number of differing interpretations and opinions of the timing of the harpazo, ‘catching or snatching away’ (rapture) – and all can be ‘proven’ by scripture.

    I would suggest that the physical ‘worst’ is that one is martyred for their non-denial of their faith in Jesus as Messiah, Lord and God.

    The spiritual ‘worst’ is that one does not KNOW Jesus as Messiah, Lord and God, that one is not ‘born-again’ – that is how anyone would not be a member of His body.

    No matter what persecutions and tribulations lie ahead, for any of us, we need Jesus as Messiah and Lord, we need to be spiritually regenerated, born-again, living in Christ Jesus our risen Lord.

    That would be (is) my concern for your friend, (and you know her, I don’t.) Not does she know OF Lord Jesus, but does she KNOW Him as Saviour (Messiah) and Lord, and does she have a personal relationship with Him..?

    That is the direction of my prayers for all – that He reveals Himself to each one of us, draws each one to Himself, that we might KNOW Jesus… as Messiah, Lord, the Living God.

    In His love,

  308. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013


    Yes you are right. To know the Lord as our personal saviour is the focus. My friend believes in Jesus as her saviour but now is adding other things – (so many set prayers for hours, some many meetings etc ) which are making her driven. She is on the phone for ages talking to people about `the warning,` so called prophecies.

    When we first came to know each other in the early `80`s she would disciple others etc. I know her family miss her & even when they visit she is off to meetings. I encourage her to pray from the heart when we are together & we sing the `old choruses,` that she remembers around the piano. I know the Lord is stirring up within her & I don`t want to be a hindrance.

    As I see it, regards the tribulation, is that as we get closer to the time people will either be drawn to the Lord & know the truth or they will be driven & not receive the truth but the deluding influence.

    Yes there are different interpretations on the rapture but as the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, I believe He will guide us if we are truely seeking. Also the Body of Christ will come to maturity before we are caught away with Christ – drawn not driven.

    I do take what you say as important though, Roger & will keep that in mind & heart as I visit with my friend. Than you again for being thoughtful enough to share.


  309. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    Marilyn – Amen – drawn by Him, not driven by ‘another’ 🙂

    I ‘kind of’ understand the situation you shared. We too have friends, who are active RC, we have known them for a few years now, got to know them as friends, established a ‘relationship’ with them – to the point where we can openly discuss the differences, share our understandings and beliefs, answer questions, and pray together, as led.

    So when I shared before about knowing Jesus as Messiah, Lord and God, not just ‘of’ or ‘about’ Him – it was with our friends in mind. Our prayer (for all) is that Jesus will reveal Himself to them, that the Holy Spirit will prepare the ground, and that He would prompt someone (us, or others), to speak the words of truth as He guides and leads…

    Blessings, and may Lord Jesus be with you as you visit (and always)..

  310. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    I would like to share these words, written by Kokichi Kurosake, with you all – in two parts.

    The True Centre

    The centre of Christianity is neither institution nor organization. Nor is it even the Bible itself (as the reformers made it). The Ekklesia existed before the formation of the New Testament canon.

    Christians were in fellowship with God and one another, centring their faith in Christ, long before there was any accepted New Testament.

    There is only one centre of Christianity, and this centre is spiritual fellowship with God through Christ—life- union with God in Christ.
    When there is this koinonia—fellowship—there is the Body of Christ, the Ekklesia.

    Where there is no koinonia with God there is no Ekklesia, because life-union is lacking. Though there may be many excellent clerical personages, many elegant church buildings, many scholarly dogmas and creeds, if there is no koinonia with God and Christ, there can be no Ekklesia at all. On the other hand, if there is this koinonia with God and Christ, the Ekklesia exists.

    We need pay no attention to the differences in creeds, institutions and rituals; but by loving Him first, and loving one another, we can be one in Christ.

  311. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    All Scripture Bears Witness

    Only this union with God in Christ can be the centre of Christianity.
    The Scriptures confirm this, as this fellowship is the theme of the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Indeed, the relationship between the Father and the Son in eternity was undoubtedly just this fellowship.

    John tells us, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.” This describes a state of being in the presence of a person, and is best expressed by “face to face with God.” The last Adam was from the beginning “face to face” with God. So also the first Adam was created for the same position of fellowship, and was “face to face” with God in the Garden until the fall.

    God created man in His own image.. . why? God must have felt very lonely as he found not one among all the creatures with whom He was able to have fellowship. All the angels, animals, birds and fish were certainly very beautiful, but they could not come to God and talk and walk with Him in the Garden of Eden, face to face. Therefore, He created man in His own image—i.e., able to talk with Him, to meet with Him, and seek after Him.
    To live with God and to have fellowship with Him was the sole object of our being created in the likeness of God.

    This communion must ever be the centre of the relationship between God and man. Without the existence of human beings, God could never be satisfied. God created man in His likeness. Man is a spiritual being, capable of responding to His love and having koinonia with Him.

    God is Love! If there were no creature who could appreciate His love and respond in love, His creation would fail to reach its fullest consummation.

    Even when Adam was driven out of paradise by God as a result of his fall—(fellowship broken by sin)—this judgment was not to destroy man but to ultimately save him from his fallen state and restore the fellowship.

    One of the most strategic verses in all Scripture is Leviticus 26:11, 12. (See also Exodus 25:8: 1 Kings 6:12,13.)
    The Lord said to Israel, “I will set My tabernacle among you. My soul shall not abhor you. And I will walk among you and be your God and ye shall be My people.” This verse is quoted by the apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:16 as referring to the Body of Christ; and by the apostle John in Revelation 21:3 as being finally, prophetically fulfilled in all the fullness of its rich meaning: the “New Jerusalem” prepared as a bride for her husband.

    However, God was not satisfied to have fellowship with only those selected few. He wanted to be united in spiritual fellowship with all the people on earth.

    Jesus made it possible to re-establish man’s interrupted fellowship with his Creator. Thus, we have “boldness to enter into the holiest, by the blood of Jesus” (Heb. 10:19).

    Fellowship between God and man, interrupted by the sin of the first Adam, was reopened! Now anyone can have direct koinonia with God and share His very life. Anyone can live a life of love and unity, with Christ.

    This is really the centre of Christianity, and “faith” is nothing other than the state of having this life-union with God.
    To be justified by faith means God can enjoy this koinonia with you.

    If we will experientially practice this living union with Christ, loving each other without any concern about sects and denominations, doctrines or forms, then we shall have the Body of Christ, with Him as Head. The centre of our faith will be restored. This is the Ekklesia in its truest and purest sense. Therefore, the Ekklesia is not an institution, not a system, not theology, not the words of the Bible, and not any ritual or ceremony.

    The Ekklesia exists where there is this life-union with God through Christ.

  312. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013

    Some good thoughts, Roger. I`m learning to not chase every knat, & appreciate what you say about `creeds, institutions & rituals.` I even go to my friend`s meeting when I`m visiting & kneel & ask the Lord to help me see people`s hearts. All the other stuff, I pray, will drop away as we journey on together in Him.

    I get involved with her friends & we pray for them as she sees they don`t have a close walk with the Lord. They also are interested, `Who is this Protestant that is a dear friend of A, & she comes to our meeting?`

    Glad to hear about your relationships also. The Lord enlarges all our hearts as we walk with one another, ay.

    Thank you for your prayers & thoughts. Marilyn.

  313. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013

    Roger & others.

    These thoughts have lead me to a great desire of mine from the Lord, which is to disciple/mentor others. I think you, Roger & others would identify God`s hand in your lives as similar.

    In the `80`s I would invite people to a meeting & many gave their lives to the Lord. Some have gone on with their faith in Christ.

    Then over the years the Lord has shown me that He desired for me to help other people have the joy of discipling/mentoring others. So I concentrated on a few that the Lord guided me to. Then over the years as I visited, prayed, fellowshiped, shared etc etc relationships developed & I also got to know their relationships.

    So as each person developed in their relationship with the Lord we prayed for those they were in contact with & saw the Lord move in wonderful ways – a husband come to the Lord, children revived in their faith, others drawn to know more, & believers built up in their faith.

    I only work with my few, & they only work with their few but it grows out in great numbers by the Lord. Now in the Lord I have spiritual grandchildren & this gives me great joy.

    In His harvest field there is great joy. Marilyn.

  314. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    May you be blessed, Marilyn – Yes, I understand of what you speak – the principle of ‘living stones’ placed by God, in a wall (of the Temple) that He is building. Each stone touches a few others, which each touch another few, and so on…

    These next words were written by a dear friend, not just to me, again a general sharing of his learning:

    “..There are two ways of uniting people, one is in the spirit and the other is in the flesh, we must learn the difference if we wish to maintain the unity of the body of Christ. One is organic unity and the other must be brought about through organization. Organic unity is the product of the Spirit of God and depends on those united having a common life source. Unity by organization is imposed by man.

    The unity of the Spirit will exhibit the fruit of the Spirit : Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. The unity of the flesh will ultimately reflect the works of the flesh. It is as inevitable as night following day.

    Wherever I have observed man trying to maintain unity through human organization I have observed, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, and party spirit (heresy).

    When man organizes unity he does it to protect his kingdom, his view of truth, his control over others, his privileged position or the position of his party….

    …..Jesus said to his disciples, ” I will build my church ” but for almost two thousand years we have tried to do it for him. One result is that the Body of Christ has suffered from disunity…..

    …I have also searched for the perfect church structure in the pages of the New Testament. It was only when I acknowledged that it was not to be found there that I was set free.

    What I believe I did find was that Jesus did not come to give us a pattern for the church, he came to build it himself, living stone by living stone. It is because we have taken control of the process that it will not fit together or hold together when we have built our version. I no longer believe that the Apostle Paul built perfect churches either, but at least he had some revelation from God on how they should be built.

  315. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    Some while ago, I shared ‘visions’ given to others on this subject of ‘living stones’, on Andrews forum JBTV –

  316. Roger (NZ) Jun 19th 2013

    Back to the topic – has anybody else heard of the RCC program New Evangelisation..? (I hadn’t until receiving a newsletter from lighthouse trails)

    See this link for more information on this program to win converts to Christ, another christ, the eucharistic christ:

  317. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013

    Thank you Roger, I have printed off the `Living Stones, `& will read when I`m visiting my friend tomorrow.

    God bless, Marilyn.

  318. Jordan Shepherd Jun 19th 2013

    Some good thoughts to ponder above, thank you all.

    Marilyn Crow, thank you, God bless you and I will pray the Spirit of Truth guide you in your conversation with your friend. I am particularly interested to hear why your friend believes the rapture is a myth. The Lord bless her … You are called to mentor and disciple others. You have the heart of a pastor, wisdom and grace, and discernment. Many are thankful for your labour in the Lord

    Roger – When I was saved, I experienced the power of God whereby I was healed, delivered, baptised in water and baptised with the Spirit – on the same night. The following week, I attended a bible study, full of the Spirit, enthusiastically asking lots of questions about the Word. I was told, “We don’t have time to answer your questions; we have a ten week program to get through.”

    I ‘left church’ without really getting established in fellowship. The Lord immediately directed me hear two Bible studies per night on the radio, pray in the Spirit and thank Him, praise Him, daily. I had prayer, the Bible, praise, fullness of the Spirit, and exercised evangelism. However, the one thing I lacked was fellowship. I drifted away from Jesus for a time.

    Then the Lord drew me closer to Him and I established myself in deep fellowship that can only be explained as a “Philadelphia” Church experience. I had read Francis Schaefer’s book, “The Mark of a Christian”. Now I first hand experienced it among those with whom I fellowshipped: Yes, John 13:34-35 – IN THE FLESH (Or shall I say, SPIRIT). GLory to God, what a blessing. That honeymoon Church period lasted for 6 years during which time I met my wonderful wife and had four children (but not in six years!).

    Fast forward, 14 years later. I understand what you say about fellowship. I just want to say, there is fellowship and there is fellowship; just like there is the Bible, and there is God’s word, in our lives.

    I would not like to choose, but suppose I had to: Which would I choose if given a choice? Fellowship or the Word of God. Both should not be separated, just as one should not separate the Spirit from the Word of God. Back all those years ago, I needed fellowship to understand God and the Ekklesia. I will always desire fellowship. But if faced with a choice between the two, I choose God’s word, because it brings me closer to Jesus, through the Spirit. His word is a lamp …

    As a babe in Christ, I needed a family (and still do, please don’t mistake me). Yet, as I learned to walk with Jesus accompanied by loving fellowship of the believers. I began to learn to put my trust in the Lord and in His word. Yes, I also need strengthening, encouragement and comfort that comes from fellowship (1 Cor.14) but I began to be strengthened and nourished daily through His word and His Spirit.

    Man does not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Deut, Matt. 4:4).

    “Now that you have purified yourselves, in obedience to the truth, through the Spirit, love one another fervently from a pure heart.” (1 Peter 1:22, I think)

    I have heard it said that the reformers had the words of CHrist, but the Anabaptists had the Christ of the word. While the one produced creeds, dogmas, etc., the other produced a life that was crucified in Christ, willing to lay down their life for Jesus.

    For me, I was attracted to God’s word before I became a believer, having never been witnessed to in any form. Subsequently, there are things I had read in the Word that were so lovely it left me speechless and deeply moved.

    The Word of God can be a “mask” for some, giving appearance to others of maturity in Christ. For others, the word produces faith and gives strength. We only have to read Ephesians 1:17 – … and Ephesians 3:14 – …

    I love His word because it is living and active, sharp, divides flesh from Spirit, so to speak, and discerns the thoughts and attitudes of my heart. Praise God for giving us a Counsellor:

    “If your word had not been my delight, I would have perished in my affliction.” (Psalm 119:92)

    For the last five consecutive nights, the Lord has impressed upon me the words of Proverbs 2 – To treasure His commands (His word, His promises, His wisdom) in my heart. Not sure what that is about yet, but I know I need to get deeper in His word and allow it to minister in my life, and in the lives of others, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

    On Church, in terms of finding a Church for me and my family … years ago I decided to take responsibility to teach my children and wife the Word. We meet together regularly to praise Jesus and I bring teaching and we pray together. I have even taught them much on end times and the children know more on that timely and relevant subject than many Christians around us. They thank me and they love God’s word.

    Now, after searching for a number of years, we have finally found a small Church where the people are hungry for God and the pastor preaches the Gospel here and overseas. He is anointed as are many in this Church. The pastor has declared he does not want a big Church and does not want people to serve his vision but be released, each person, into his/her calling from God. He was reluctant to plant a non-denominational Church, but the Lord impressed this upon Him over time. The people are genuine and we are all excited – after three weeks. I can already see in this short time various ministries in operation, to the glory of God.

    There will always be a remnant and we value the Ekklesia … let us continue to fellowship and walk in the power of His Spirit, testifying to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the love of God.

    (Last long post …)

  319. Jordan Shepherd Jun 19th 2013

    Roger, from memory, and I may be wrong, the RCC new evangelisation is a call to existing RCC adherents to be more committed and engage in catholicism. It’s a conversion from within; not sure what that program entails …

  320. AJH,

    After reading your comment it would be interesting to know; how many souls did you bring into the kingdom this week? Just Wondering.

    Also I did not detect people here being in fear while talking about end time events. Just discussing something does not mean your setting around afraid of the future. Quite the contrary its seeing the current events fulfilling Bible prophecy.


  321. watchful Jun 19th 2013

    Lynn and Claudia, to tell the truth most of Daniel and Revelations is still sealed up to me so I wait for revelation…I know it has to come that way because my mind just gets tied up in knots trying to grapple with it all. But I do try and hear what others have just in case something finally gels..

    Amen Roger and Marilyn…… comes down to “ye must be born again” by the Spirit of God. One thing I would like to mention is that fellowship is also in Spirit and is not the same thing as relationship.

    Amen to no fear Andrew J, as long as we understand that discerning and warning is not the same thing as fear, otherwise we would have to think that Jesus and the apostles were in fear. The only one we have to fear is the Living God, because fear of Him is always the beginning of wisdom.

    But we are told to be sober and alert, because the adversary prowls around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour. Not fear, but to be serious and AWARE.

  322. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    Awesome Amen to your words, Jorden Shepherd……”Proverbs 2 – To treasure His commands (His word, His promises, His wisdom) in my heart. Not sure what that is about yet, but I know I need to get deeper in His word and allow it to minister in my life, and in the lives of others, in the power of the Holy Spirit.”
    Because it is time, and it is the only way we will not be deceived, Jordan. There is a time very close where only those who have cried out for YHWH’s knowledge and understanding, devoured His every word (ALL OF HIS WORD….not just picking and choosing as many church structures led by man do) and His commandments, making them a part of their wisdom and understanding, as natural as they breath in and out, without thinking. Only those will recognize what is happening when the evil one/ones come. Only those will not fall away and become athiest, or transfer their belief onto the dark one….if they are alive when the beast comes. And, those who do know ALL OF THE WORD, may be able to hold the hands of those fellow humans who have faith in them, so that they too will not be deceived. (This is why our lives should reflect our love of God, so that others will trust us who are still growing in the Word, or who are new Believers not yet learned. This is why families should remain strong.)

    Proverbs 2:12-To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things; 13-Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness. 14-Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked.

    The evil one comes to earth, claiming to be our creator, with all his powerful cold “iron” technology, and lies, lacking love, saying he will save a few….from this earth which he says will be destroyed…….if you take his mark. His forward rank of dominions are already in contact with those who want global rule…trading technology and lies for those life forms they want to steal, which are owned by YHWH.

    But YHWH has told us what we need to know in His Word so we won’t be deceived, unless we look for our understanding of the word from the authority of man…..not the Authority of YHWH. HE has told us what will happen in the end….for those who are patient and wait for their returning King of Kings, Alpha and Omega.

    REV 3:10=Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth

    DAN 12:12 = Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Hebrew 6:12=That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    In Chapter 13 of Revelations YHWH warned us what was going to happen in our time…He warned us of the Beasts to come. And, He clearly stated that HERE, at this point in time is when the saints would need our PATIENCE and FAITH in order not to be deceived. (Rev.13:10). To do that, one has to know intimately the nature of the one you put your faith in….so that you will not be deceived.(Proverbs 2).

    Again in Chapter 14 of Revelations, YHWH tells us the circumstances, that it is at the time when the 7th trumpet will soon sound, which is after the time of the 5th and 6th trumpets (read what that is all about!). At this point, HERE, is where the patience of the saints is needed, for that short time when the indignation passes over. HOLD ON, DON’T LET GO OF WHAT YOU KNOW….DON’T BE DECEIVED….OR LOSE YOUR FAITH IN YHWH’s WORD!

    Rev. 14:12=Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    HOLD ON! Because HERE is also when, soon the 7th trump, last trump, sounds Yashua, Jesus our LAMB making His Harvest of His fruits, so that they won’t be going through the WRATH of the Vials which burns off the tares from the field that is Earth. Perhaps we will all instantly fall dead in our clay bodies and transform into our Spiritual bodies that are like Jesus’s. (Perhaps the evil one will claim to have been the cause of it!) However it occurs….this is the rapture in scripture. We stay in our Master’s Barn/Tabernacle and than are used in His Kingdom, assiting and being a part of His Perfect Rule of those who did not bow to the Beast and came through the Wrath in their clay bodies.

    Proverbs 2:22=But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. 21-For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

    If people of earth are unaware of what is or could happen according to YHWH’s word…..they will be easily deceived. Route memorization, or parroting of scripture, with no attempt to try to understand what it could mean….does not produce fruit. That is why they used to discuss scripture. In those discussions our minds are awaken to possibilities.

    Memorizeing the 10 commandments of YHWH, and understanding them, as given to Moses, and the Lord’s Prayer as given to us by Yashua, and other scriptures concerning the nature of YHWH will allow us to have discernment, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit of YHWH within us.


  323. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    So true, Roger, there is no doubt the visions are what God wanted you to share. Thank you!

    I am also reminded of why YHWH wants us to keep our hands busy in making things. Whether it is gardening, sewing, cooking, building, cleaning, caring for animals, raising our children…..all these kinds of productive tasks, when done honestly and without short cuts…..teach us of YHWH.

  324. Claudia, may I kindly point out, that the “seventh trumpet” in Rev 11:15 is not the same as seen 1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thess 4:16.

    Rev 11:15 “And the seventh angel sounded;” and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    “And the seventh angel sounded;”

    1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, “at the last trump:” for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    “at the last trump:”

    1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, “and with the trump of God:” and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    “and with the trump of God:”

    The “last trump” is blown by God and not the seventh angel and the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 is never called “the last trump” as in context with 1 Cor15:52 & 1 Thess 4:16.

    Hence these are two entirely different events going by what scripture tells us and should not be muddled together.

    Hope that helps.

    Every blessing


  325. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    This Dream was also meant for sharing. It is about the Living Waters.

  326. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    Thank you Ken1, but YHWH uses His angels, and other things that He created to do His Bidding… His Name, just like a king. If a trumpeter sounds the trumpet of the KING….it is still the KING who is doing the sounding.

    Just as, for example, if we are doing something in the King’s name, we are doing it under his authority. that is what it means when scripture states from time to time…”in the Name of the LORD, etc. Some use these same scriptures to teach that we must know the LORD’s exact name, how it is spelled and how it sounds. I don’t think in this age we will be able to do that exactly….and we are forgiven by Him because we often fail to know exactly how HIS NAME sounds and should be used…..same with the name of Jesus, which in Hebrew was more like, Yashua.

    Getting back to your understanding, I would suggest that you consider the actual scriptures for understanding, and not what we are told they mean. More likely…..The Father, YHWH, is the one who says….It is time, sound the trump (of course HE also made that “trump”….it is HIS! ;-).

    In that scripture;…… 1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, “AND WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD:” and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    ……it is my understanding that the words I capitalized above are indicating the TIMING OF THIS EVENT that is being talked about. This event occurs WHEN the trump of God is sounded….WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD. It is a “time” indicator.

    If you were my employer, and I told you that when my bell rings at the end of the day you may go home,……when you heard my bell ring you would not picture me actually ringing that bell. Do you follow the reasoning?

    There are far too many other scriptures in the Bible which support the “last trump” being the 7th that sounds the arrival of the DAY OF THE LORD.

    The writer of that scripture has to identify this event with the last trumpet of God because scripture teaches and Jesus taught that only the Father knows the exact time. When HIS bell sounds, we know it is time, as do all of HIS that play a role in these events, appointed from the beginning of time.

  327. Lightening Storm Jun 19th 2013


    That is an awesome dream. Thank you for sharing….it stirred my joy and gratitude to the Lord.

    Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit…..Your Goodness overwhelms me every day.

  328. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    1st Thes. 4:16
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    The above appears to me to be saying that when our King of Kings descends from heaven, it will be with a shout, with a proclaimation from the archangel, and with the sounding of the trump of God; and at that time also the dead in Christ shall rise first. We know that in discussion of the rapture in the Bible, that the dead in Christ rise before the living saints are instantly transformed. So we can assume that we are at that event.

    Reality is that this scripture in no way identifies that this is the last trump. We have to take the events happening and see what other scripture says about those same events. And when we do that we see that there is scripture tying these same events to the last trump that is sounded by the angel in Revelations. How do you know that this angels sounding the last trump is not the archangel? When you read the entirety of Revelations (leaving behind what you were taught by man’s traditions) you will see that Revelations 14, from verse 13 down, clearly ties these events into the last trump, because immediately after Jesus (Son of Man) harvests from the cloud, it speaks of the the Vials of Wrath commencing. We know from other scripture that they are not given the Vials until the 7th trumpet sounds. We know that the very last trumpet ever discussed in Revelations….which is about the END OF THE STORY OF MAN’S RULE…..AND GOD STRIVING WITH MAN….is the 7th trumpet. There are only 7. It is the last one.

    We know that we are harvested at the last trump…changed in a twinkling.

  329. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    We also know from the Bible that trumpets are associated with war and battle, conquering, etc. Histories from Enoch’s time that were not included in the Constantine/Roman church compilation of scripture, talked of the 7 apocolyptic battles that would occur in the end times. First three won by the sons of Light, next three won by the sons of dark, …..last (7th) won by God, Himself. And we also know that Yashua Jesus is God’s Right Hand….literally….one and the same. Yashua is how the Eternal Father who is ALL SPIRIT forms to act upon His creations.

  330. Claudia Jun 19th 2013

    Yes, Lightning Storm, ….He is soooo AWESOME….sooooo OVERWHELMING…..not one of our words can do Him justice, in the PERFECTION that He is! And….He loves us!

    That YHWH exists is enough for me, that His WILL be magnified upon all existence!!!

  331. Barry Schmidt Jun 19th 2013

    My oldest daughter just got married this pas weekend . As always HS been the practice of our family my children invited as many outsiders and non believers as possible to the event. As always Jesus showed up. One young man came to Christ at the dance (sorry – we also dance in our family). He said he was so impacted by the genuine love and contagious joy in our family that he knew Jesus was real and declared his COMMITTMENT to follow him right at the wedding!

    I was deeply humbled by the multitude of comments from non believing guests of how they were glad to have felt so much love and joy but sad their families knew nothing like it.

    It still brings to my eyes as I realize how truly rich and spoiled we believers really are and how I will never again take Gods Presence in our lives again.
    We can be such ingrates as Christians- we are truly spoiled and blessed and yet we spend all out time criticizing each other and whining about our faults and weaknesses. WE spend inordinate amounts of energy picking apart WHAT’S WRONG.
    something the lost no nothing of!
    This wedding was a reality check for me!


    For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” (Luke 19:10 NASB)

  332. Awesome Barry, that’s awesome (you’ve encouraged me this morning)… 🙂

  333. AJH,

    After reading your comment it would be interesting to know; how many souls did you bring into the kingdom this week? Just Wondering.

    Hi Gary,

    I’m not sure and I don’t need to know… 🙂

    My heart is for salvation and I pray accordingly… 🙂

    Love you,


  334. Claudia,
    Was bless by the dream your shared.

    As for the information about the time man has been on the earth I would have to dig up my notes. Its a fairly lengthy discussion will not get into it at this time. But I do find it interesting that several are saying only 6000 years. First time I have ever heard this view.



  335. AJH,


    Its morning over there, I’m surprised. Its 5 in the afternoon here.

    Lord Bless,

  336. Hi watchful,

    Amen to no fear Andrew J, as long as we understand that discerning and warning is not the same thing as fear, otherwise we would have to think that Jesus and the apostles were in fear.

    I don’t believe that either Jesus or the Apostles were in fear… 🙂

    Discerning and warning…

    Oke Doke, here we go, I’ll have a go at discerning and warning… 🙂

    Hold fast to Jesus Christ, let Him love you, receive His love, let Him lavish His love on you and receive it…

    Accept the fact that you are a daughter of the Living God, that you are one spirit with Jesus – as you have joined yourself to the Lord – and that He will never let you go…

    Accept the fact that all your sins are forgiven forever…

    Covered by the Blood of Jesus and forgotten forever…

    Accept the fact that you are a new creation in Christ that He has given you a new heart, a new spirit, a righteous soul at regeneration, that He has given you the gift of repentance and the gift of faith and that He saved you not on the basis of works which you have done but on the basis of His mercy which He chose to lavish on you…

    Accept the fact that no one can snatch you out of His Hand or His Father’s Hand…

    Accept the fact that you are not presently nor ever will be under condemnation…

    Accept the fact that He has already given you everything you will ever need for life (your physical wellbeing) and godliness (your spiritual wellbeing) through your knowledge of (your relationship with) Him who called you to His own Glory and Goodness… 🙂

    Accept the fact that His Holy Spirit has been given to you as your Counsellor to be with you forever and that He will never leave you or forsake you but will lead you into all truth…

    Accept the fact that the evil one cannot touch your new creation…

    Accept the fact that your new creation is you…

    Accept the fact that “sin within you” (your “flesh”) is no longer you…

    After you’ve accepted all those facts you should be so full of joy and peace and overflowing with gratitude towards God that you will see clearly enough to know what is going on presently in the world and how you should respond to it…

    You are safe and secure in His Hands…

    That safety and security will give you boldness in His Hand…

    You will see that at any point in time you could be martyred for Him as you move in that sort of boldness and once you’ve “thrown down your life” so to speak you won’t care if you ‘live or die”…

    That is so freeing – you will have no present or future plans – and in that state of having no present or future plans you will hear clearly His Voice speaking to you – as He speaks to us clearest when we are surrendered unconditionally to Him – and we only surrender unconditionally to Him when we know and accept the above facts – about His Unconditional Love for us (our security in Him)…

    If you do all this you’ll be able to discern and warn accurately… 🙂

    Love you sister,


  337. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013


    You are right about the 2 trumpets. In 1 Cor.15: 52 the trumpet symbol is God speaking to the Body of Christ, & in Rev. 11: 15 the trumpet symbol is God speaking to Israel & the Nations.

    Until people apply God`s concern for the 3 groups (The Body of Christ / Israel / The Nations) they will always muddle up scripture. (As you rightly said)

    Jordan Shepherd

    Thank you for your very kind words, much appreciated. And I will certainly find out why my friend does not believe in the rapture & let you know.


    Always appreciate what you say. And yes fellowship in Spirit is not the same as relationship. it is the very precious life of Christ within each of us (believers) ministering out to each other.

    As I get to know the different ones on this site I am beginning to recognise hearts & personalities. We are all different & have something to share. Even those we believe are in error in some area we pray & encourage to bring to the truth of our precious Lord.

    Getting to know each other….Marilyn

  338. Marilyn Crow Jun 19th 2013


    I`ll be interested to hear what you say to AJ.

    My thoughts were that Yes we need to know what Christ has done & is doing in us, yet I believe it is only part of the whole picture. There has been a big emphasis over the past ten or so years on `Our identity in Christ, ` & to me it has the wrong focus.

    The Apostle Paul always points us to `Who Christ is.`

    ` I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, & count them rubbish in order that I may gain Christ.`
    (Phil. 3: 8)

    `that I may know Him ……reaching forward…I press on toward the goal….of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
    (Phil. 3: 12 – 14)

    To know Christ is a daily fellowship, as you said in the Spirit, which is a growing experience & not just `accepting those facts.`

    To know Christ is to learn to discern His word correctly & not putting ourselves as the centre (when we read the word) but Christ.

    Then learn to discern the 3 groups & the word will become very clear. The symbols etc are all explained in the word & not for anyone to have their opinion.

    So let`s focus on Christ, His character & His purposes for the 3 groups & by His Holy Spirit we will grow in truely knowing Him & not just `facts.`


  339. Barry Schmidt Jun 20th 2013

    There is an Unsearchable wealth of love, wisdom, joy and peace that we believers have been given in Christ Jesus our Lord. We are truly children of the King of the Universe. We are children if the King of Peace, the Father of love and the God of wisdom.

    YET WE LIVE LIKE PAUPERS! WE are hiding ourselves , condemning ourselves and ashamed like poverty stricken children.

    Yet we are the light of the world, the salt of the earth- we hold the keys of the kingdom. We have the SOURCE OF LOVE!

    The world is crying out for love but we are hiding in shame !
    The world is looking for answers and we are the pillar of truth and yet we are acting like NONOBODIES!!!

    We are straining to remove the speck from each others eyes all the while we fail to see we are the righteousness of God in Christ.

    Out families are blessed to have Jesus Himself live in our households yet we whine and complain AS IF WE LACK!!!

    Church wake up!
    Church arise and shine!
    Church stop thinking the world has something over on you!
    Church stop whining and complaining!
    Church BE WHO YOU ARE!
    Church stop hiding your light!
    Church come forth and shine!

    For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent, And for Jerusalem’s sake I will not keep quiet, Until her righteousness goes forth like brightness, And her salvation like a torch that is burning. The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the Lord will designate. You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of the Lord, And a royal diadem in the hand of your God. It will no longer be said to you, “Forsaken,” Nor to your land will it any longer be said, “Desolate”; But you will be called, “My delight is in her,” And your land, “Married”; For the Lord delights in you, And to Him your land will be married. (Isaiah 62:1-4 NASB)

  340. Below is a website where you can order a free book and I recommand anyone who has a heart for ‘souls’ and the Great Commission to do so.

    There are so many ‘pearls’ in this book about the true call of the Great Commission but in reference to the topic on this posting I provide an excerpt from the book:
    “But the church (in Asia) needs to be released from Western domination”. The author goes on to say “God is calling Christians everywhere to recognise that HE is building HIS church in Asia. Support is needed from the west BUT not to impose your man-made controls and teachings on Eastern churches”. That is not to control the work of God!
    Basically he has identified an ongoing trend of religious
    neo colonialism.

    When I read those words about ” being released from Western (church) denomination” it occurred to me that western believers also need release from religious denominational controls or
    “Spiritual Babylon” as it is often referred to, in order to be truly effective for the Great Commission. We are seeing already that one of the greatest harvests occurring today is souls being released from the religious systems of men. Once that occurs in greater numbers we will also see a greater Great Commission worldwide carried out because God will be in charge of every person to carry out the GC under the leading of the HS in their lives.

    Many years ago I went door knocking in an area north of where I lived. We were distributing pamphlets for a new church planting in this area. The first day (two of us) went out it was unfrutiful. So the next day we sat on top of a hill overlooking the area and prayed. This is what God told us:

    “When you go out, I do not want you to preach your church or take any pamphlets. When you go door to door I want you to PREACH JESUS CHRIST, CRUCIFIED, BURIED AND RISEN AGAIN. That is all he told us. So we ditched the pamphlets into the rubbish bin nearby and started out. It was as if the heavens had opened at every door. We preached to ex Anglicans, ex Catholics, ex Presbyerians, ex Mormons, ex JW’s, ex Baptists, and many others -it was if these people had heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ for the first time.They were hungry for it. Many of these folk had been saved to a church denomination doctrine BUT not to the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

    So therein awaits a harvest to be saved in the western styled manmade church system!!

    Shalom AM

  341. Jordan Shepherd Jun 20th 2013

    Amen Claudia, Treasure Christ – “In Him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Colossians 2:3)

    Marilyn – Thank you. My email is: [email protected]
    Interestingly there are groups that do not accept teaching on the rapture, among some are, Mormons, Jehovas Witness, RCs, … just saying. I am interested in any common threads between the reasons/teaching, put forth.

    Ken1 – Your view of the trumpets accords well with Scripture.

    Marilyn – The three groups, yes. The unfolding specific purpose of God and the way God deals with each group, cannot be generalised, nor ignored.

    Barry – Thank you. What a testimony. I love weddings. Earlier this year I was “best man” for a friend and the minister & others were deeply moved when the Groomsmen could be seen and heard praising Jesus while waiting outside the Church for the bride to arrive.

    AM – Powerful. It begs the question: What are we bringing to people? I shared last topic – when asked to tell me about this Jesus, 2 people sitting in a Church foyer told me I needed to “come to Church and find out.”

    There is both spiritual, (spirit of false worship) and political,(economic / commercial) Babylon. Rev. 17 & 18.

    Claudia – “trading technology and lies for those life forms they want to steal, which are owned by YHWH.” [That’s a huge topic. Praise God for His discernment.]

  342. watchful Jun 20th 2013

    Claudia, its interesting that you mentioned the verse that says to go shut the door and hide ourselves in our room until His wrath passes by………because that’s exactly what I resolved to do. The past two successive evenings the Lord confirmed His word and I was on my face in worship………..THE LION IS COME UP FROM HIS THICKET as per Jer. 4 (KJV) which I was given a month ago but didn`t fully understand yet, but now see clearly how it is connected to Isaiah 21 and the vision. And see the lion mentioned in Is. 21:8 which I hadn`t noticed until last night. The warning is for me as much as for anyone, and probably it is presumptuous to say that I am warning but rather to be precise should only say that I am sharing the warning. We must “flee to Zion“ for safety….“set up the standard toward Zion“ (Jer. 4:6 KJV)…this is speaking of spiritual Zion. Praying that we all be given discernment and ears to hear……because the adversary prowls around like a roaring lion………………

    (Too many details as to how the Lord had confirmed Jer. 4 to me…….suffice to say that I had been experiencing in natural life the things it speaks of …..even to a figurative lion walking down our street in real life, a cougar.)

    (working again today and will try to reply to AJ and Marilyn tonight or tomorrow, Lord willing…….may He bless and keep us all.)

  343. Claudia Jun 20th 2013

    Barry Schmidt….the marriage is coming and people need to know when the event will be, so they can prepare their garments. The invitations were sent out for a celebration, but those first invited did not show up, so the man giving the dinner party extended the invitation to the entire village, but they have to show up clothed with the Righteousness of Jesus to enter His House. It is this same Righteousness, Watchful,…that will cloak us, keeping us out of temptation, delivering us from the evil one’s deception….which leads to death.

    Deliver us from mourning over the state of the world, unto Joy of soon Deliverance.

    We must also preach His soon Return!

    There is a possibility that the Holy Roman Church, may have got some scriptures wrong…depending upon whom has or did enter their “house”. These same scriptures could have been inherited by the protestants. All scripture (except those nailed to the cross..the Gospel) should be discussed as to possible meanings. That way, when the times unfold….people are more aware of what could happen, and many unbelievers may acknowledge that YHWH did indeed know the ending from the beginning….and YHWH told man what man needed to know, so as not to be deceived in the end.

    I was watching Real News (Russian RT) this morning and they had a section on Israel and all the “walls” that Israel has been relentlessly putting up affecting Palestinians, Egypt, Gaza, Jordan, West Bank and the newest being fortified is along the Lebanese and Syrian borders. They, of course, painted a bad picture of these walls, as they are Israel’s enemies. Israel puts up walls for defense from possible future attacks. Too bad they don’t realize that Yashua, Jesus, is their only sure Wall from all their enemies.

    Anyway…the “walls” part reminded me of the Daniel 9 prophesy concerning 70 sevens given during the later time, because it also spoke of “walls” being built. I find it interesting that it starts with defining the 70 years, than speaks of the 69th year, and than speaks of the grouping of years that come after the 62nd year. Like, Daniel was given the ending before the beginning. I think the angel messenger was giving Daniel the Hope first, and than the bad news regarding the years between the 62nd and the 69th where the dragon orchestrates his deception.

    First it defines the total years given, which are….70 (I am aware of how orthodox religion defines these sevens, “weeks”….as they call them….but they also had to create a gap theory because their 490 years didn’t happen as they calculated.)

    Dan.9:24-Seventy (70) weeks (original text said “sevens”) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    —–24—-His Kingdom is set up and running at the end of this 70 years. Considering the word “week” was “seven” in the original text….and that “seven” I believe refers to the Sacred Year within a single calendar year that covers 7 mos. with 7 Holy Feasts and 7 Holy Sabbaths within it, the math totals 70 years above to finish vision/prophecy regarding HIS KINGDOM COME (DAY OF THE LORD, His 1,000 year Kingdom) to earth, and the events that happen during that 70 years is broken up as follows in the following three verses.

    Second it defines the 69th year of the 70 given…69

    25-Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (69 Sacred Years) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.(notice it does not say anything about the temple being built!!!)

    —–25—-After the Wrath commences, Yashua physically returns to earth, splitting the mountain and gathering His 144,000 to Him, in the 69th year of the 70 given during the period of the Vials of Wrath which is sweeping out the tares. (This last year of the 70 will contain the Battle of Armageddon) Israel will have completed her defensive walls by that time.

    Thirdly, it defines a time period prior to the 69th year that starts after the 62nd year of the 70 given….62+

    26-And after threescore and two weeks (62) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that SHALL come (they do not come right at the 62nd year) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    ——26—–“AFTER” (which means some time, anytime, “after” the first 62 YEARS of the 70 given, the “falling away”, the “cutting off”, of belief in Yashua and the persecution of those who retain their belief, the segregation out of mainstream will occur. It is also during this time (Dan.8 13-14) that the 2,300 days (6 yrs) of the Sanctuary (Belief in Jesus) being trodden under foot occurs (You are already seeing it, we are within it). BUT….this in no way changes any of the Truth regarding Yeshua, Himself….it changes nothing about His Plan, or His appointed times and Work…and it does not alter the FACT that He is the True MESSIAH and cannot be cut off. The “prince that comes” during this time is the false one, no matter what he claims….the one spoken of in Revelations that spews a spiritual evil flood out of his mouth to drown people of YHWY who he hates…and this environment continues until the end of the desolating wars and destructions that have been appointed. We are within this 6 year period. It is during this time, starting after the first 62 years, that the first 6 trumpet wars occur, the dragon and his followers return and are physically revealed to the world (5th/6th trumpets) and the peace treaty covenant is made. The 7th trumpet also sounds within this group of years….with the Wrath starting after the sounding.

    27-And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    —–27—This “prince” (prince of the air) confirms a covenant with many for one seven (a Sacred Year…Mar/April through Sep/Oct…. will be within that one year peace treaty) and around Pentecost (middle of Sacred year) the false prince, who may have encouraged the Jews to start their sacrifices to cover their sins (possibly to him…if they believe he is the messiah they have been waiting for) or possibly to insult YHWH with the fact that his people still have not accepted YHWH,s Son.). Either way, the false prince, after insulting YHWH than demands that all worship him and take his mark in order to carry out their daily survival functions that depend upon the global economic system that has already been set up by the antichrist globalists. (By demanding worship, and outlawing worship of Jesus he has affectively taken away the “sacrifice and the oblation”). Remember the kings of the earth at this time have given their power to this false one. This is the dragon’s 2nd to last attempt (last one occurs at the end of the next 1,000 years) to replace YHWH in man’s hearts and minds, receiving the worship that is YHWH’s alone. YHWH’s 7th trumpet sounds! The abominations have been noted! The dead in Yashua rise, the living in Yashua instantly receive their Spiritual bodies that are like Yashua’s when He walked with man for 40 days before His ascension. The Wrath starts.

    It may be that when the 7th trumpet sounds we will be within the 68th year….of these 70 given.

    How can the unbeliever see these days approaching if they are not made aware of what the angels sent by YHWH told man about it? Someone who watches and sees and who does not warn the others will be held accountable. The dragon has control of our media systems, much of our education systems, our economic systems, our science systems, and those systems are even now preparing man in the WRONG way for what is to come. They are conditioning man to fall for the DECEPTION. They have already caused man to depend upon TECHNOLOGY and to gather together in huge massive cities.

  344. I love that scripture (Isaiah 62:1-4) Barry, I was encouraged to read it again this morning in your post above… Yes Lord… Amen… So let it be… And it will be… I feel the joy… 🙂

    Once we, the Church, know what we are in Christ and the assurance of our position in Him we will demonstrate Christ to the world whom He loves and died for in unity both with Him and with each other – no fear, no suspicion, only love even as we are persecuted unto death if this be His will for us (I feel this – a complete abandonment of self protection – it is beautiful – no control, only abandonment into His Hand knowing that He loves us and cares for us – we are walking with Him – Praise You Jesus, Thank You Father, Thank You Holy Spirit – Bless You Lord)…

    Love you brother, Andrew… 🙂

  345. Lightening Storm Jun 20th 2013

    Babylon, Mystery Babylon, Egypt……these are ALL names of actual places AND they are SYMBOLIC NAMES OF THE KINGDOM OF DARKNESS, which is this global HIERARCHY. Its levels and parts of authority are revealed in the OT and in the NT. Eph 6 and Rev 6 reveal the hiearchy to us.
    ** Princes; Principalities; Powers; Rulers of darkness; spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Black horse=Financial/Economic
    Red horse=Governments/Control /Leaders
    White horse=ALL Religions
    Pale horse=War/Death

    The GLOBE/WORLD is the kingdom of darkness…..Satan is the PRINCE OF DARKNESS….he RULES AND INFLUENCES his global world system as with the demonic angels.

    The Kingdom of God is a hierarchy also….it is the POWER and LIGHT that emanates from the Holy Spirit within each born again person. Jesus Christ RULES THOSE WHO FOLLOW IN OBEDIENCE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, and disciplines/judges those who don’t.


    The Angels of God and the Saints of God GET TO PARTICIPATE with God in the Operation of the Kingdom of God, ONLY IF they are obedient to HIS personal instructions. (found FAITHFUL)

    Otherwise, as scriptures states, all other “works” are burned in the fire!

    Definition of HIERARCHY
    : a division of angels
    a : a ruling body of clergy organized into orders or ranks each subordinate to the one above it; especially : the bishops of a province or nation
    b : church government by a hierarchy
    : a body of persons in authority
    : the classification of a group of people according to ability or to economic, social, or professional standing; also : the group so classified
    : a graded or ranked series

  346. Lightning Storm Jun 20th 2013

    A Thousand Years is Like a Day to God

    Some believe that since God made/recreated the world in six days and rested on the seventh day (Genesis 2:1-3), that humans will have 6000 years to live on the earth under Satan’s influence, but will have a 1000 years to be under Christ’s reign (the original creation of the universe may have been billions of years earlier c.f. Genesis 1:2; Isaiah 45:18). The 6000 plus 1000 years equals God’s seven thousand year plan.

    Many have noted that a thousand years seems to be as one day to God. This is a concept from both the Old and New Testaments:

    For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past (Psalm 90:4).

    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day (2 Peter 3:8).

    Based upon certain calculations that I am aware of, it seems that Adam and Eve were created and/or apparently left the garden of Eden between 5,980 to 5,995 years ago (roughly 3974-3989 B.C.). This would mean that when Jesus began to preach (roughly 27 A.D., over four thousand year later) He was preaching in day five, as four of the seven “one thousand year days” would have been over before then.

    Thus days five and six would have been considered as part of the “last days” by the early disciples.

    That being so, this helps explain why some New Testament figures indicated that they were in the last days:

    But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh (Acts 2:14-17).

    God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1-2).

    If there is no 6,000 year plan of human rule followed by a 1,000 year millennial reign, then the New Testament statement above about then being in the last days make little sense. But, since God does have a 7,000 year plan, these statements do make sense. And that also explains how come the end has not come yet–there is still a little more time in “the last days.”

    It also needs to be understood that there are two types of last days referred to in the New Testament. When some were stating that they were in the last days, this indicates the latter days of the 7,000 year week. However in other places, New Testament writers sometimes are referring to the time of the final generation before Jesus returns as being the last days, as they indicate that this is not the same time as they were writing (cf. 2 Peter 3:3).

  347. Lightning Storm Jun 20th 2013

    {The following information is collected from many different online resources}

    Bishop Irenaeus, a 2nd century heretical leader (but one Roman Catholics consider to be a major early saint), claimed to have met Polycarp of Smyrna. Here is some of what he wrote about this:

    …that apostasy which has taken place during six thousand years. For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: “Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works.” This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year…

    For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded…and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year…Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception.

    (Irenaeus. Adversus haereses, Book V, Chapter 28:2-3; 29:2. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 1. Edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. American Edition, 1885. Online Edition Copyright © 2004 by K. Knight).

    Irenaeus is basically trying to say that the creation shows the six-seven thousand year plan of God. Irenaeus is also teaching that since God gave Noah 600 years prior to the flood, that humans were given 6,000 years to live in a time of apostasy, essentially cut-off from God (cf. Genesis 3:22-24).

    Many of the Jewish rabbis, or doctors of the Jewish law, derive this tradition from the very first verse in the first chapter of Genesis, where the Hebrew letter, Aleph, which signifies thousand, is found six times. Hence, in their famous Talmud, we read: The world shall last six thousand years, and then it shall be destroyed. This world lasted two thousand years in the law of nature, two thousand years in the law of Moses, and shall last two thousand years in the law of the Messiah. (Talmud, Tom, IV. tract. 4; Malvenda, Lib. II. chap. 21.)

  348. LS wrote: But, since God does have a 7,000 year plan, these statements do make sense. And that also explains how come the end has not come yet–there is still a little more time in “the last days.” quote…………

    God does not say that He has a 7000 year plan. If this is the case we could know the day and the hour. Plus why all this talk about the end times we still have plenty of time with this thinking.

    No man knows the day or hour of His return.

    Some of the sources you are quoting are not inspired by the Living God but the teachings of men. We as Christians do not follow the Talmud or the writings of the church fathers and teaching. The Bible is sufficient in itself. The church fathers writing is not inspired scripture but is a source for historical information.

    I think what Claudia was referring to was actually going through the Bible and adding up the ages of men and historical events to get this number. But she said is was using the Jewish calendar.


  349. Lightning Storm Jun 21st 2013

    I’m just putting the information out there as others have been.

    Take it or leave it, as your inquiry of the Lord instructs you.

  350. I’d like to share something personal by way of illustrating a point… 🙂

    I was praying with my wife last night – we had a very good prayer time and started to pray for some family members and then the Lord started showing us things which were personal also…

    We saw that we (the family members we were praying for – but then I saw that I had done this also) had all put God in a box to try and understand Him…

    Cos we don’t like uncertainty – as human beings we don’t like the unknown…

    We find it easier to know than to trust…

    Things we cannot understand we cannot control…

    We don’t like things – as human beings – which we cannot control – so we use our minds to try and “figure out” stuff to eliminate that uncertainty and regain that control…

    Unfortunately God doesn’t play by our rules and I saw that I’d tried to control God…

    Tried to fit Him into my box and get frustrated with Him when He didn’t do things the way I thought He should…

    We all have these unanswered questions about the Lord because we don’t know Him well enough – I mean personally – Him speaking to us and us asking Him honest questions and developing intimacy with Him through asking honest questions and being “real” with Him…

    My wife came to this conclusion that the answer for her was just to keep asking the Lord about “every little thing” which she didn’t understand about His dealings in her life – that encouraged me cos He’d shown me recently something similar (experiences I’d had where He just hadn’t “made sense”, where there was still a “?” in my mind)…

    Anyway, I saw that my frustration at God and attempts to control Him were because of my misunderstanding of who He really was – my “box” so to speak which I’d put Him in so I could “cope” with Him so to speak…

    Hopefully this is making sense to someone… 🙂

    As I gave it back to Him – all my attempts to control Him – I felt a beautiful freedom coming over me – a beautiful freedom just to know Him and accept Him for whoever He really is – not with my “pre-conceived” ideas but receiving Him as He really is…

    The unfolding of His word brings light giving understanding to the simple… as the scripture says…

    This is what I experienced as my wife and I prayed last night…

    Traumatic experiences which we’ve endured where God didn’t “make sense” we protect ourselves against in our minds so He can’t hurt us again…

    This is control…

    When we see Him for who He is and keep asking Him why in a trusting way not in a demanding way – obviously we might start out in a demanding way but He will show us this 🙂 – we will come to understand why He has done certain things in our lives – sometimes we might just receive His Peace – but my experience has been that He’s always spoken to me when I come “raw” and “real” before Him – maybe not always immediately but always eventually…

    This is the last form of control which we need to let go of to be completely surrendered to Him…

    Like Job went through – he “got it all out to God” and God “came through” for him eventually and Job was blessed with a greater intimacy towards the Lord (he was also stripped of his self righteousness, ouch :-))…

    The study of end times events – to the exclusion of every day living and focusing on the salvation of the world – praying for the salvation of the world – and sharing with those God brings across our paths – is in my opinion an attempt to reduce uncertainty from and gain control over our lives (if it is taken to an excess, i.e. if it becomes an obsession)…

    If I’m constantly asking God what my future will hold and need to know every infinite detail before I can be at peace am I really trusting God?

    If I’m at peace the Lord will show me the future in as much detail as I need to know it so that I can fulfil His will for my life…

    Do we see the difference?

    One is based in anxiety/fear/not wanting to “miss out” and the other is based in trust/faith…

    Love to you all,


  351. Lightning Storm Jun 21st 2013

    God sees sins and iniquity as a DEBT OWED.
    “…forgive us our DEBTS, as we have forgiven our DEBTORS……”
    “Rom 13:8 KJV – Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”

    In the Law that God set forth in Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, when a man owes a debt that he can’t repay, that man is indentured as a slave to the debtor for 7 years, then he is released and the DEBT FORGIVEN.

    Deuteronomy 15:1-23 ESV
    “At the end of every 7 years you shall grant a release. And this is the manner of the release: every creditor shall release what he has lent to his neighbor. He shall not exact it of his neighbor, his brother, because the Lord’s release has been proclaimed.

    At the sin of Humanity (Adam and Eve in the Garden), humanity was enslaved to our debtor for 7 thousand years.

    The only way out of our 7 years captivity/enslavement is by REPENTANCE AND ASKING JESUS CHRIST TO PAY OUR PERSONAL DEBT FOR US.

    Luk 4:18 KJV – The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 KJV – To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    Luk 4:21 KJV – And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

    The REMAINDER OF CREATION is left in captivity until the 7 years has been paid for the sin in the Garden. Then ALL creation is restored….Rev 21…new earth.

    We have no idea how long Satan roamed over the globe prior to God creating LIFE on the globe.
    We have no idea how long Adam and Eve LIVED IN THE GARDEN/PARADISE with God before they sinned.

    But we do know by the scriptures, that God put in motion the time clock ticking off the 7 years of enslavement for humanity’s sin debt, the day that Adam and Eve were SEPARATED FROM PARADISE AND THE FACE TO FACE PRESENCE OF GOD.
    The Day that the Gates to Paradise were closed and guarded by the Cherubim to keep out all those who try to enter another way than THE WAY prescribed by God.

  352. watchful Jun 21st 2013

    Claudia, I just now had time to read your dream…….how wonderful to have been given a taste of what He has laid up in store for you and for all who follow Him!

    Marilyn, I think you are absolutely 100% right about too much focus and emphasis on “us” and “who we are in Christ” when it’s not about us at all, but about Him. The wonderful freedom of losing ourselves altogether in HIM!

    Andrew J, what I have found over the years is that the carrying of a cross puts to death the “self” life more and more, and everything that goes with it…..all that “self”-consciousness, introspection and angst. One day it dawns on you that you have changed and you’re not doing all that anymore, praise be to God!!

    AM what a wonderful testimony!

    Lightning Storm, that’s an interesting take, and appreciate your sharing… a general sense I have to concur with GaryB that we dont’ know the day nor the hour, only the season do we know by the signs.

  353. Lightning Storm Jun 21st 2013

    Jesus Said to “Watch”

    Just because we don’t know the DAY or the HOUR, DOES NOT mean God is keeping the knowledge of the generation from us.

    In these latter days, Christians generally realize that they are to pay attention to many world and national events that line up with the Bible. Notice what Jesus taught:

    28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near — at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

    32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming — in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning — 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” (Mark 13:28-37)

    31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

    34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man” (Luke 21:31-36).

    Jesus clearly taught that His followers were to pay attention to end time events, and that those who heeded His words COULD escape.

  354. Suzanne Griffis Jun 21st 2013

    I haven’t been on a couple days, but after reviewing the last couple days, I’m glad to see so many are great students of the Word.
    Lightening: Some prophetic teachers that I have followed for many
    years teach that the 4 horsemen are:
    black: capitolism
    white: catholicism
    red: communism
    pale (light green): Islamism

  355. Claudia Jun 21st 2013

    Very wise words Andrew J. Horton. I do hope you don’t think I am asking God what the future is. The future is His to do with what He wants. Neither am I obsessing over it….as there is far more in my life that I do not share here.

    I am trying to understand what He has told us in His word, I am trying to understand that….for I am sure He had a reason for putting these things about the future there. I do not want to make His efforts in vain.

    I do believe that the understanding and than sharing of them will help the latter day people to believe….possibly even the organized churches not to be deceived.

  356. watchful Jun 21st 2013

    Amen Lightning storm!

  357. Claudia Jun 21st 2013

    Thank you, Lightning Storm for the perspective on “debt”….and the 7 years of enslavement.

  358. Claudia Jun 21st 2013

    Thank you, Lightning Storm for the perspective on debt and the 7 years enslavement.

  359. Marilyn Crow Jun 21st 2013

    Well dear friends, here is a ball from left field & gives a good example of `Who is talking to whom & which group?` (The Body of Christ / Israel / The Nations.)

    So here is the well known & well used scripture –


    `Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.`
    (Matt. 25: 13)

    Here it is Jesus talking to the people of Israel & saying that they would not know when He was coming to them.


    Now the Lord Jesus Christ, seated at the right hand of the Father talking to the Body of Christ by His Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul says –

    `For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night,……
    BUT YOU, brethren are NOT in darkness, that the day of the Lord should overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light….`
    (1 Thess. 5: 2 – 5)

    And also – `encouraging one another; & all the more as YOU SEE
    the day drawing near.` (Heb. 10: 25)

    It is clear we need to read what the Lord is saying to us & not assume what He said to Israel always applies to us.


  360. Averyl Jun 21st 2013

    Suazanne Griffis, – Amen about the identities of the 4 horsemen.
    The white/pale horse is green in the original.

  361. Averyl Jun 21st 2013

    Suzanne I meant, sorry!

  362. Claudia Jun 21st 2013

    6 is the sign of man. It seems balanced that man would attempt to rule for 6 of God’s days (1,000 man years equals 1 God Day). Also since there is that scripture quoted earlier that God would only strive with man for 120 Jubilees, which is 6,000 years(Gen 6:3).

    Man probably was intended to rule unfallen on this earth for 6,000 years…growing and learning and walking with God….but man fell…and invited satan in. Fallen angels in the time of Enoch and Noah, which interaction caused the flood, but they have been interfering throughout man’s reign upon the earth…physically and spiritually. Remember Jesus said when He was last here that the evil one was close? Jesus was here in the 5th Seal period (Martyrs). The 6th Seal period opened up from that time to now. Man taking over the church for his own glory and use. I believe that satan has been using this 6th Seal period to set up global rule, using those who are open to his influence because they are selfish, greedy, liars, and thieves, and murderers for their gain. When the 7th Seal is removed he will attempt to take over and be worshiped.

    For sure, after the 7,000th year, end of the Mellinnium, all will either be free….or experiencing the 2nd death….one or the other. No more trapped in this time zone….separated out.

    Another thought I had, wouldn’t it be lacking not to study every aspect of YHWH? Which would include all His dealings with the Hebrews in the past and what He told them, and how He revealed His nature to them……as best we can within their recordings?

  363. Hi Claudia,

    For me personally I go by what Jesus told me before He went back to heaven… 🙂

    In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
    (Acts 1:1-11 NASB)

    If He wants me to know any more than the basic things which He has already shared with me in Matthew 24 (which I’ve shared on earlier in this thread) then He can reveal that to me…

    Daniel was told to “seal up” his visions meaning that no one would understand them until the time when they were about to take place…

    John was also told to “seal up” at least some of what he wrote in Revelation meaning the same thing (we’re not going to know it all until the appropriate time)…

    It’s there as a record of what God will do – no one will be able to say that God didn’t tell us – but no one will also be able to understand the “sealed up” things until God “unseals” them… 🙂

    I’ve heard so much discussion on these kind of topics since I’ve been saved and it goes nowhere…

    I don’t get a witness of its truth when I hear it…

    And that’s what I’m looking for – a witness of its truth – I just see people going round and round in circles trying to figure it out and prove to everyone else why they’re right in their interpretation (I’m waiting for that “ring of truth” in what is shared and I haven’t had that yet)…

    I’m just content to get on and pray for all men because God desires all men to be saved and to treat every day as an opportunity for God to save more people until they’re (the Elect) all saved… 🙂

    I know something will start to change once someone (the man of lawlessness) signs an agreement with Israel giving them back (I believe) all the land God gave initially to Abraham and there is “peace” in the Middle East for three and a half years straight after this agreement is made…

    That and a physical temple and physical animal sacrifices all happening during those three and a half years of “peace” will tell me that we’re in the last seven years before Jesus returns to reign from Jerusalem…

    That’s good enough for me… 🙂

    Anything else the Lord wants to tell me I’m open for it – but I’m not focusing on it – It wasn’t the last instruction He gave me before He left planet earth…

    Love you,


  364. Claudia Jun 21st 2013

    One more post!

    Suzzanne; Irvin Baxter has laid out the same understanding of the Seals that you shared.

    I have shared already, that no where in the Bible does it define the seals that way, or in the way that is commonly understood by religions today….tho there are a few that hold to my opinion on the first and last seal.

    There are some scriptures that tend to support that the Seals are Spirits of forces sent forth by God to influence mankind’s freewill choices.

    The LAMB (who was slain before the foundations of the earth) only can loose the seven Seals on the Scroll of Redemption of man from the Curse.(Rev.5:5).

    (Rev.5:6) And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne….stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD SENT OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH.” (Right here you have the eyes defined as Spirits of God sent forth into the earth. The eyes on the Lamb’s horn correlate with the 7 Seals on the Scroll via the colors matching the same Spirits of God that are discussed via colored horses drawing chariots in Zechariah which also are shown going throughout the earth. These 7 eyes are not the 7 fold Spirit of God that Isaiah 11:2 speaks of, which is singular.)

    Five of these “Seals” were loosed upon the earth long ago, especially the first one from our very beginning..ALPHA (white). Yashua/mans’ Creator, came first, (Gen.1:3) quickly followed by the 2nd. (red), 3rd (black), and for sure even the 4th (pale/dappled) also was in existence in Zechariah, Chapter 5 and 6.

    This is why I don’t believe the Scroll is an apocolyptic scroll of just the end times. (That is another Roman church myth….passed on down to the Protestants) It is the Scroll of Redemption..the Plan that was formed from the foundations of the earth, to be carried out by the LAMB that was slain from the foundations of the earth in order to redeem cursed mankind . John would not have cried if an apocolyptic scroll could not be opened! He for sure would have…if that scroll was the only means to REDEEM mankind! It is all about the Beginning and the Ending, the ALPHA and THE OMEGA. Also…YHWH would not use the color white for anything but purity. The scroll goes forth as a curse that Redeems, separating the tares from the wheat.

    Each Spirit when released stays upon the earth until their work has been done….separating out the tares.

    1st…ALPHA, Spirit of our Lord, Our Creator, on a White Horse, one crown because He is King of all…given all Authority. Carrying a Bow, because He is the Arrow that slays the dragon…conquering the dragon’s plans that man should be cursed, and He sets forth the PLAN which includes the curse, but also a means to Redeem us from that curse.

    2nd….Red horse rider…Spirit of the dragon who gives a choice for man…good or evil. The PLAN/SCROLL could not separate out the liars and thieves (see Zech. again) if they were not exposed to evil.(those who steal another’s property or another’s life, which includes murderers.)

    3rd….Black horse rider….Spirit of Commerce, economy, trade, barter, due to the fall from the Garden…shades of Babylon.

    4th…..Pale horse rider….Spirit of false religion, antichrist, not quiet white, but an impure dirty imitation….shades of Babylon…and one of these false religions will have power over 1/4th part of the earth, honoring death over love. Hell and destruction follow this Spirit that brings everlasting death.

    5th…..Spirit of Martyrs (following Yashua’s love and example)

    6th….Spirit of the Age of man’s false glory….shades of Babylon.

    7th….OMEGA….Spirit of our YHWH’s Completion. Trumpet wars, antichrist revealed, Vials of Wrath, He returns on a White horse, with many crowns, King of Kings to cleanse the Sanctuary and set up the 7th Day Kingdom, (The 7th Day Rest for the Saints) ruling over all nations…completing the cycle of the Garden of Eden…when God first walked with Adam man upon the earth. Only this time satan and those who chose to follow him, are the only ones that are destroyed when the temptation comes again during the last hour of the Mellinnium.

    To date….my best understanding….but still open.