THE BAPTISM CONTROVERSY – Andrew Strom

A number of people replied to my last article saying that I am “over-emphasizing” baptism. Some even think that we are preaching “baptismal regeneration”! These people really need to read that email again.

Listen – I have just spent the last 14 years of my life travelling
around the world speaking on Repentance and Holiness. And I
still preach on those things. But baptism and the filling of the
Holy Spirit are important too. In fact, in the Bible they were all
“one package”. There is no “Ask Jesus into your heart” in the
Bible. There is no ‘Pray this little prayer to get saved’. It doesn’t
exist. (Proof of this is below).

20 years ago in 1996 I published an article called, “Ask Jesus
Into Your Heart??” Torben read it. Maybe you did too. It was
one of our main ones. This topic needed discussing. The church
was going around the world telling people to do something for
“salvation” that the apostles never preached. “Just pray this little
prayer after me.” Very ‘convenient’ but also very unbiblical. In
the book of Acts we see literally thousands of people getting
converted. But never once were they told to do anything like that.
So what did the apostles actually preach?

When I teach on this topic these days I always start with the
“Six Foundations” of Hebrews 6:1-2. If you look at this passage
it actually describes the six things that are “foundational” in the
life of a new believer. Please note that ‘Asking Jesus into your
heart’ is not one of them. So what are these six things according
to this passage? (1) Repentance, (2) Faith, (3) Baptisms,
(4) Laying on of Hands, (5) Resurrection of the Dead, (6) Eternal
Judgment. Those are the six foundations.

Then I take people over to the book of Acts to see what the
apostles did when they got people converted. In Acts chapter 2
we find the very first occasion where a group of people is getting
saved. And what did the apostle Peter tell them? “Repent and be
baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the
forgiveness of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy
Spirit.” (Acts 2:38).

Can you see what Peter is doing here? He is using the
“foundations”! They asked him what they should do, and he
replied by telling them three of the initial foundations: (1) Repent,
(2) Be Baptized, (3) Receive the Holy Spirit. And we see this
pattern over and over again.

PREACH THE FOUNDATIONS!

When we go right through the book of Acts and look at every
conversion in the whole book, we find again and again that what
the apostles were doing was LAYING THESE FOUNDATIONS
in the conversion of people. Repent, Believe, get Baptized, get
Filled with the Holy Spirit. Foundations 1, 2, 3 and 4. Over and
over. The Samaritans, the Gentiles, the Ephesians, everyone.
Friends, we are supposed to use these FOUNDATIONS when
we are getting people converted! And all of this was expected to
happen on the FIRST DAY! There were no delays. This was “day
one” Christianity for every convert. Read it and see for yourself.

So why are we so different today? Why have we gone around
the world getting people “converted” in a way that is utterly
different from the Bible?

I can understand why people get upset about this because it is
so different to what we have been taught all our lives. But the
fact is, no matter what people say, I am going to keep using
these ‘foundations’ when getting people converted. If you want
to stop me doing that, you are going to have to prove those
‘foundations’ wrong – or prove to me that the apostles did not
use them when getting people saved.

I am not really a “baptism” preacher. And I am not just a
‘repentance’ preacher either. What I want to be is a “whole
foundation” preacher. And that is what I believe God is calling
us all to be.

-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic below.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

Posted in Articles by Andrew on June 8th, 2016 at 10:32 am.

95 comments

95 Replies

  1. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    If you still question what I have said above, please take the time to go through our “Shocking Bible Study – The Lost Foundations”. I am sure this will answer a lot of your questions. Here is the link to it-

    http://www.revivalschool.com/shocking-bible-study-the-lost-foundations-by-andrew-strom/

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  2. Stephen Boyce Jun 8th 2016

    Their are people who can not endure sound doctorine. people love to be tickled with their ears all the prosperity junk and all the false doctrine you see on TV

  3. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    Sad but true, Stephen.

    I completely agree.

  4. madeline cornett Jun 8th 2016

    well my friend-we must allow God to be God
    bottom line what our father is searching for
    are those who will fall in love with his son
    it is all about him and not you and i
    we have to get our selves out of the way and allow him to do it His way my own conversion some 40 some years ago does not fit in to anyone mold-one minute i did not know him
    the next minute he was all that i could think about
    i was crazy in love with him
    all i had to do was open my heart,so he could come in
    repentance, baptism was to come later
    baptised in the HOLY SPIRT weeks later
    something that i was not searching for
    this is what happened to me when this took place
    it burned all the doubt and disbelief out of me
    i love it that all of our stories are different
    he is a many facet GOD
    I say again
    Let God be God
    IF there is any thing that i personally know about him
    he loves stories-he wants each one of us to have our own story to tell and i love telling His stories in my own life

  5. Patricia Hawf Jun 8th 2016

    PLEASE KEEP PREACHING THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD !!!

  6. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    The “whole” counsel.

    Yes – an apt phrase, Patricia.

    Thankyou.

  7. Amen to the foundation gifts – salvation without these truths being followed and taught is a false religion. That being said I am confused you say the 3rd foundational gift to be the doctrine of Baptism(S) while you list the Gift of the Holy Spirit as being the 4th foundational stone.

    Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

    These two verses recognize two manners/ individual acts/ states of baptism’s:
    1. baptism in water – by man
    2. baptism with the Holy Ghost – Jesus
    3. baptism with fire – Jesus

    I fear that your article might lead some to a misunderstanding by the addition of a “4th” foundation stone which is, I believe according to scripture to be 3a and 3b: Doctrine of Baptism(S).

    I understand the 4th foundational stone “Laying on of hands” to be the act by man for the impartation of gifts, healing, and miracles and receiving the Holy Spirit does not come from man but from Jesus. If I am mistaken can you please show me where and why.

    Paul

  8. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    Good question, Paul.

    In Acts we see again and again the Holy Spirit given at the “laying on of hands” by the apostles.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  9. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    And to those wondering why we abandoned our ‘Baptism’ discussion last week, I wanted to wait for a “full foundation” discussion to really get into it with the whole of this information at your fingertips.

    So now is your chance.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  10. Cory Enderby Jun 8th 2016

    Amen! This was a word I needed to hear. I belong to an Apostolic church and this is what they preach. It seems that God is giving me more understanding as to the truth of baptism, repentance and receiving the Holy Spirit.

  11. Peter Jun 8th 2016

    I agree with your view on baptism, having come to this conclusion independently. It is NOT baptismal regeneration, which would be a kind of “magic”, a ceremony that has power to do things independently of God, by its own inherent virtue. Regeneration is something that God alone can do. However, baptism is a faith transaction, if I may call it that. As we do it, we express, or act out our faith towards God that he will do something in us. Similarly, with the Lord’s Supper, which is a way of renewing the New Covenant in Jesus’ blood, and receiving the benefits of the work of Christ by faith. Not a sacramental/magical thing that works by its own power to transmit grace. Nor simply a ceremony to remember what Jesus did.

  12. Mike Fuller Jun 8th 2016

    There is simply ‘power’ in baptism . the lord Jesus is not fickle .he does not tell us to do things for the sake of doing them . Everything he instructs us to do is for a good perfect righteous holy and Just reason .And always for our GOOD .
    baptism in water for the remission of our sin is NO exception. There is ALWAYS the power of God at work in every aspect of his word, every guidance every command every instruction .His word is life and his word carries the power of the life that he IS. When we are buried with him ,by baptism into his death we act on faith and he confirms his word and makes us (beyond ALL carnal reasoning and comprehension) new CREATURES IN CHRIST.Forever freed from the power and dominion of sin .(unless by our own choice we put ourselves under its bondage again) he has not commanded baptism for fun or because it is a nice symbol .But because he desires to work HIS power in us to HIS glory . the Gospel contains the instructions we needed to know to be saved . There are dire warnings in the scripture for those who do not “obey the gospel “/ .. Water baptism! -it is obedience . we do not emphasise it enough . ! the apostles never excluded it from the gospel .they knew the power of it .

  13. ValleyAnt Jun 8th 2016

    Andrew, there are also six main components in the foundation of the average house or building. But Job said, “Does not the ear test words and the mouth taste its food” (12:11). Just like our tongues taste [literally, ‘discern’ the different textures and tastes in] food, our ears can test [literally, ‘examine’] words that we hear or read. Sometime in the past– I began to ‘test’ words, especially words I heard but also words I read– to see when they were of God, of man’s soul, of man’s flesh, of some evil spirit, or a mixture of two or more of the above. I began to detect when something seemed true on its surface but was not in fact true. The Bible does say that “solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil” (Heb. 5:14).

    To me, this water baptism teaching seems on the surface to be right because it’s clinically correct and the Bible seems to approve it; but the teaching isn’t ‘true’, whole, or complete. It’s only a part of the whole, but when it’s turned into a requirement for salvation or a point of pressure, then it goes from being a blessing to being a burden. Anything short of the Spirit will eventually bring in ‘the Law’ and requirements that are not from God. It happened between OT and NT with the original Law; it happened in the churches in the NT epistles; and it happens today. The flesh introduced and forces on the people seemingly harmless but burdensome things like tithing, going to a designated meeting place for ‘church’, going to ‘church’ on Sundays or Saturdays, and an endless list of ‘Laws’ which are being dressed up as Grace.

    People should be encouraged, not commanded, to be water baptized, because commands bring condemnation or a burden or weariness when one cannot live up to them (as it was with the Law); but encouragement by its definition strengthens and enables people to obey God which is what Grace does. Grace allows people to just be so that if God requires or charges them to be water baptized, then He will send someone to both tell them and facilitate their baptism. I believe, according to the NT example beginning with John the Baptist, that if people are not told to or cannot be water baptized, then God will not charge or rebuke them for lacking to do so. In the thief on the cross, we see a perfect example of a man who 1.) didn’t say the sinner’s prayer or any prayer, 2.) wasn’t baptized in water, and 3.) wasn’t baptized in the Holy Spirit… but he was still saved and went to Heaven. Therefore, there is no hard and fast rule on these things; but whoever is able is encouraged to be established on all the right foundations which ‘law’ does not apply to whoever is not able (or whoever is not aware of these ‘requirements’).

    You should be careful where you place your stress; divisive doctrines often emerge from taking one truth and stressing it over or more than others. Speaking about one truth at a time is good and needful; but making any truth more important than it actually is is no longer good nor of Grace but a form of idolatry that exalts doctrines, practices, experiences, and success above God and Jesus. And that is what’s being done with this teaching about water baptism. There are also six main components in the foundation of a house or building. To new Christians and to unbelievers, this water baptism teaching can be good; but to many believers, it is simply a rehashing and a re-laying of foundations. This does not work for believers who are already building upwards and who need other materials other than the cement and steel (and the other four components in construction: concrete block, bricks or stones, wood, and weatherproofing materials) that are already in their Foundation.

  14. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    Sadly, what we find over and over is that even people who have been believers for a long time often have large parts of their ‘foundation’ missing or totally inadequate.

    We wish it were not so, but that is what we find everywhere we go

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  15. Daryl Miller Jun 8th 2016

    Good article. Sometimes the simplicity of the gospel is lost in an age where knowledge is increasing, and just like water baptism the church often takes the easy path of a little prayer and confession rather than the action that is needed in water baptism, which in this day and age takes effort on the part of the ministry as well as real commitment on behalf of the convert,a stepping out. Not really sure why anyone would object to this or the video s. Absolutely wonderful!

  16. mike martin Jun 8th 2016

    Andrew, absolutely well said!

  17. Andrew, you are very right about that. It is the 7 elementary principles that has been attacked since the first Antichrist Pope Constantine has settled his papacy in Nicea in 381 AD. It is attacking the Unity of the Body of Christ. I try to explain it from Dutch to English. The first doctrine or foundation is, DEAD WORKS. Dead works are people who are doing good works, thinking that this will save them. Praying to dead people, bought indulgences (payment in order to get to heaven) made pilgrimages in an attempt to get saved. Labour of Love, there is nothing wrong with it, but it brings no sinner at the cross. Second. FAITH TOWARDS GOD. Here is the biggest issue what has been attacked since Nicea, the false Trinity. 1 Cor. 8:6 – “Yet for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.” As you might see, there is a doctrine going on that there are three separate beings who equal gods but, is one. This is pagan doctrine if you study yourself how this came to existence. find on internet the keywords: Comma Johanneum, then you will see that 1 John 5:7 has been added to support the pagan Trinity of the Roman Church. If you read the Gospel of John you will notice that Jesus only speaks of God the Father and Himself in Unity John 10:30. No other god separated from them is mentioned. John 14:16 speaks of ANOTHER HELPER, but if you study this very well then this other helper is Jesus Himself as HIGHPRIEST sitting next to the Father to Help us, intercede for us, being a ADVOCATE for us, and that could only be ONE from FLESH AND BLOOD, not a spirit who not went through everything in the flesh like us. Jesus is the ETERNAL Highpriest that confirms John 14:16 with Hebrew. 5:6, a Priest FOREVER according to the order of Melchizedek, wich is the Helper and ABIDES FOREVER. Read the chapters Hebrews 4 to all through 10.in the light of John 14:16 the Paraclete. Jesus was subjected to weakness like us in the Flesh. Read this: “Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood for under it the people received the law, WHAT FURTHER NEED WAS THERE THAT ANOTHER, (yes you read it “ANOTHER”) priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek,… Hebr. 7:11. Jesus in the Flesh which gives a more other definition about His Anointing task as Highpriest, wich is denied by the Antichrist by substituting it by another spirit separated from the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22. this false spirit denies and has STOLEN the Priesthood of Jesus to make himself the Paraclete. We see this now in the Charismatic Pentecostal Church toady that we have to have a SEPARATE RELATION WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT NEXT TO THE FATHER AND THE SON. Quoted by Benny Hinn. 1 John 1:3 says: “And truly our fellowship is WITH THE FATHER AND WITH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.” No other separate being entity mentioned. And so we have a very false spirit which is invading the church, accompanied with false angels etc. THIRD: DOCTRINE OF BAPTISM. We have to read this as plural. Baptising into water and in Spirit in ONE Body. Not the baby’s baptizing cause you first have to believe that you are a sinner to get baptize. Baby’s are not capable of that, and parents cannot decide for them. But here is also a text which has been put in the bible by the early Cath Church. that is Baptising in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It Reads: Matt. 28:19 -“Go you therefore and teach all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.” The original reads: ”Go and teach them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever.” Did the disciples baptize in the name of Jesus? Always! (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48, 19:5, etc.) but not in the triune names. You can read this article here: anointingpower.wordpress.com/2016/02/23/constantine-wrote-matthew-2819-into-your-bible/

    I hope I have given you much to think about first 3 elementairy principles. God gives understanding. We just have to disconnect from the Babylonian system which has perverted us since the first Council of Nicaea in 325 AD

  18. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    John – your “Jesus Only” thesis has been totally disproven, my friend. Take a look below-

    http://www.tektonics.org/lp/matt2819.php

    -Andrew

  19. Joan Peace Jun 8th 2016

    Thank you so much for addressing this much-needed topic! It is scary to think how many people are banking on salvation because they have “accepted Christ into their heart” – which , as you say, is not biblical.

    Just one note. You quoted the verse, “Repent and be
    baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the
    forgiveness of sins, and YOU SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy
    Spirit.” WHAT I READ IS THAT WE ARE ASKED TO DO ONLY TWO THINGS: REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS. When we do those do things, God Himself grants us the gift of the Holy Spirit. It’s not up to us.

  20. Suani Guzman Jun 8th 2016

    Well said brother Mike.

    I did a study on this topic. I’ve come to see the power of what happens in baptism: we proclaim the forsaking of our old life and entering into a new one. We identify with his death and resurrection. As a foundation, baptism enables the new believer to see that he is free from the old man’s power (sin) by faith in the death and resurrection of Christ. We partake of this in baptism. The reality is that we have been set free from sin by Jesus but the church now days struggles with sin because they never got a good foundation to begin with. In the New Testament, we receive everything by faith (gift from God), so baptism is a step that we take in obedience to God’s command that completes our faith. (By works, faith is made perfect). Oh what power in what Jesus HAS done. Can you imagine a Church believing that? Of course Satan wouldn’t want people believing anything special in baptism. I know it’s not the water itself but obedient faith partaking of the death and resurrection of Christ. In a covenant, both parties have a part. Our part is to believe and our obedience in baptism is a step we take that shows our faith. Rom. 11:27 “and this will be my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”
    Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    Keep up the good work brother Andrew. We are blessed to see God using you. May God’s wisdom, favor and protection be upon you and your family. May this last move of God sweep the nations. May the truth set the Church free from sin. A holy Church is mighty Church. All praise to Jesus! Amen.

  21. WE HAVE SELDOM AGREED MORE WITH WHAT YOU SAID.

    AND….THAT JUST SCRATCHES THE SURFACE ON ALL THE CHURCH HAS MOVED INTO THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG AND MANY PAGAN WAYS…
    DON AND SANDY EUBANK

  22. GaryM Jun 8th 2016

    I’ve struggled with it, and probably still do to a certain extent … the supposed requirement for water baptism. Reasons are numerous … First and easiest is that everyone converted probably doesn’t have the opportunity for water baptism. I mean, what if you live in a desert or die after believing but before the opportunity for water baptism. These questions must be answered and supported by the bible. To say that water baptism is a foundation but BUT is not always an absolute requirement needs proper explanation. What about the thief on the cross?

    Yet, water baptism does seen reasonable even if not required. Many biblical examples, and scripture is in part for our example to follow. I see Torben do it and it does seem to produce results. And I do also agree it should be right away and no one should have to follow some religious process (steps 1.2.3 over time).

    We must also consider that water baptism was instituted before Christ died and sent the Holy Ghost to reside IN us. Things changed after Pentecost. The law got reinterpreted and practices changed in the following years.

    Bottom line, I accept water baptism as a spiritual need or blessing or maybe even the outward confession of faith, but I cannot make it absolute. Ats least not until someone explains (with biblical support) what happens to the believer who never has the opportunity. But then if you do that, the “requirement” goes away.

    So … just do it (if for no other reason than outward confession sake) until the LORD tells you otherwise. If it’s wrong He’ll tell you. If He doesn’t tell you, then either it’s not wrong or not a problem for Him.

  23. Suani, not disagreeing with you for the most part but I believe you are taking Rom 11:27 out of context. Rom 11:27 is specifically to the Nation Israel and their covenant.

    Blessings

  24. There seems to be a little confusion on INITIAL salvation. The ONE and ONLY requirement for initial salvation (born again) is to BELIEVE. To believe on the death burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. That’s it, for initial salvation! Lot’s to follow AFTER we first believed.

    Believe (G4100)

    pisteuō
    pist-yoo’-o
    From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): – believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

    Blessings

  25. Fred Vanderhoof Jun 8th 2016

    Dear Bro Andrew;
    Thank you so much for your insights on the foundations. What do the foundations hold up?? Our salvation. In Rev 21 you see the walls are salvation and the gates praise. Under the wall are: not six but twelve foundations. It says baptisms. There are three. Water-Spirit-Fire. This makes eight in Heb 6. Then in 1Cor 3:11 and Eph 2:20 we find two more. These are ten foundations in the bible, you will find no more. So that means the last two will be laid by apostolic ministry in our day. The last two are “Death to Self” and “Perfection” I’m sure you will easily see these last two in the bible as principles. We can’t have our lives and His. We must lose ours. That’s death to self. Living sacrifices. And, “Let us go on to Perfection” That’s our goal, to be exactly like Him.
    Lord bless
    Fred

  26. water baptism is symbolic – just as the white horse in Revelation is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus first miracle of turning water in to wine is symbolic of His touching our lives with the regeneratrion so that the written Word becomes Spirit in our lives, and so with the symbolism of circumcision being a ‘cutting away of the flesh so that the Head may be revealed’, and again just as in Matt 25 with the parable of the ten virgins being symbolic of the Bride of Christ having about half the believers preparing themselves to become One with their Bridgeroom when He returns for hsi Bride….Water baptism is symbolic, and yes – required…. But like the believing thief on the cross – he wasn’t water baptised when he died, but never the less he entered Paradise with the Savior… These are all symbols of a spiritual concept that takes place. I was saved at age 19, but the Lord never put it on my heart to be water baptised, until I was 22. I read about it in Scripture ( logos) but the Lord made it life to me at 22 ( rhema ) and so I was water baptised… Water baptism is merely symbolizing our choosing death in order to be raised in to a new life with Jesus – thus the laying back in the water like a dead man and then being brought forth by the pastor or person water baptising ) in to a new life – Resurrection… That’s why merely dropping down in the water while we stand or being sprinkled with water are not Scriptural means of true water baptism…. Listen to the Holy Spirit and this controversy will cease…. what is going on here is a wrong understanding being presented vs the true symbolism…. Water baptism doesn’t save us any more than taking a bath….It’s symbolic of something that has already taken place inside of our hearts – just as a marriage ceremony is symbolic of a committment that has already taken place when they became engaged or betrothed….. Lindie Gibson / Montana

  27. Andrew, I just read your defense of putting a higher emphasis on baptisms. I appreciate the insight you have shared as it has especially made me rethink how i view water baptism. I also appreciate the fact that after being in ministry for as many years as you have that you are humble enough to look at some of your core doctrines and readjust.

  28. Andrew, excellent! Cannot expect a high performance vehicle which has been moved off the assembly line with several missing components to operate correctly when subjected to the rigors of driving. Like a shiny showroom model bearing a luxury manufacturer’s name but lacking critical parts, the conventional church looks attractive on the outside, but is powerless.

    The letter to the angel of the church of Laodicea describes the outcome of an assembly that goes on with business as usual without being built on the foundational precepts of repentance, belief in the death and resurrection of Christ, water baptism in name of Jesus, infilling of the Holy Ghost (no guessing game but manifested by the initial evidence of speaking out in praise and glorification of God in a new tongue), the walking out of a new life and transformation via sanctification, and operating in the gifts and callings of the Holy Ghost as granted to each believer. It logically follows that a brother or sister rooted in these precepts is ever looking forward to the Day we will stand before Him to give account and be welcomed into His joy – the day we finally see Him as He is.

    The conventional church has sought power in numbers because numbers = money and money keeps the corpus (corporation) on life support. A simple confession statement strategy makes it relatively easy and painless to become a cog in the numbers wheel and enjoy the associated benefits. Whereas for the called out ones we are buried with Him in baptism and rise to walk in newness of life, daily crucifying the flesh and depending on the Vine for power as we ourselves can do nothing apart from him. Per instructions from the Lord Jesus Christ, the apostles couldn’t even leave Jerusalem without the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Yet the Laodicean church vainly imagines they can exceed the works of the first century church operating in carnal wisdom void of the Spirit.

    In looking around today we see God shaking everything that can be shaken so that only the things that cannot be shaken remain. Brothers and sisters let us remain obedient and hold fast to that which is good – like those foundational precepts.

  29. Mother Kay Jun 8th 2016

    Thank you for the article Andrew. I love you and your precious family. So may astute and learnered Christians replying. Just briefly may I ad that being born again is not by a recipe that must be closely followed to produce the right results. I am 80 plus and saved over 45 years ago. No one loves the word more than I. I have no identity apart from Christ. No one witnessed to me, I never said the “sinners prayer” I was hungry to know if there was a God and I asked Him to let me know who He is. He did!!! Then I asked Him who was the Holy Spirit that I read about in the 2nd chapter of Acts, He filled me. Next I desired to be baptized in water. This was His will and I did. So very simple, my Heavenly Father led me every step of the way. I do appreciate theologians but the pattern is in the book, just follow it. To him whom much is given, much is required.

  30. dalekaren Jun 8th 2016

    KEEP PREACHING THE TRUTH! I have been given six months to live and instructions to write a book called Unite My Heart to Fear Thy Name. I will be sharing the very truths you teach on baptism and the Lord’s Supper–thank you for your faithfulness to the truth and your loving spirit!!!!!

  31. I totally agree with you Andrew.
    I once had a Pastor one day say that they where taught to stay away from that Holy Spirit thing because weird things can happen.
    And it could be so true for many out there, especially the older generations.
    And I believe that people have taught this, false way as a none aggressive approach to what they think will get them saved.
    Again like so many things the world does, they like to add to or take away from what God has shown us, taught us and told us. And if we are to follow his ways more people maybe would be saved. .

  32. Angelos Jun 8th 2016

    Thank you, Andrew! You are a refreshing voice of Truth, at a time when many in the Church are building with untempered mortor. Those walls will fall! Ezekiel prophecied the destruction of those who water down the mortor, when building their foundation! Preach on my friend!

  33. Wow. Lots of ideas tossed around. We could probably discuss all the ins and outs forever. I only have two points:
    1. I think there might be a misunderstanding of terms. Paul tells us that we have to confess with our mouth, and that confession is made unto salvation. Is this not what the Sinners Prayer is about? When we say ‘repentance”, are we not saying the same thing?
    I don’t think there is anyone out there that really believes that the Sinners Prayer is a bunch of magic words that if you say them, you automatically get saved. My experience over 45 years has been pretty broad, and everyone I’ve ministered with understands fully that that little prayer is only meant as assistance to help someone verbally express the repentance and heartfelt cries for salvation that is in their hearts already. No one (except the detractors and critics) is saying that the prayer is the magic that saves you; it’s merely the verbal confession that Paul says is needed. It’s a way to open up your heart in sincerity to God and repent.
    Basicially, repentance and sinners prayer are the same thing.
    The other point I would like to make is that the sinners prayer actually works. That’s something that conjecture, carnal theology, and theory cannot take away. In 45 years of ministry, from the nightly altar calls in the 70’s where hundreds poured in to get saved every week, to the hundreds of churches I have ministered to across Africa during the last 12 years, I have seen literally thousands saved and I have witnessed the transformations take place instantly in them.
    For 10 years, I would watch every night as faces of hardened criminals, drug addicts, and deep sinners would melt as the Holy Spirit descended while they went through that prayer. I have seen hundreds of stories of changed lives across Africa because they came to the altar and gave their life to Jesus. Delivered, cleansed, redeemed and saved and with a new power to overcome sin. All because they didn’t try to hypothesize the theology of how it works, but like the harlots and publicans, they just believed, they came, and they repented through that little Sinners Prayer that so many of the theologically correct have such a problem with.
    It sounds like we are standing on the banks of Jordan watching John and trying to figure it all out. Instead, I think I will just go with what works.

  34. Amen brother Andrew – We need to return to the Foundations of the bible – not to the ways of man trying to be the Holy Spirit!

  35. Christienne Jun 8th 2016

    I fully agree on teaching the complete gospel of Jesus Christ as seen in the book of Acts. It is because we want to ‘make our own gospel’ as it suites our traditional religion, that we don’t see His Life and fullness of our Lord and Saviour anymore! Jesus and His disciples gave the complete, exact example. We dare not change anything!
    Blessings in Jesus wonderful Name

  36. AMEN Brother Dale – they just believed.

  37. Brother Dale,
    Wouldn’t confession be in line with the second foundational stone (faith towards God), that through your heart felt confession God grants salvation to the believer.

    This is followed with, water baptism if available symbolic of dying and being born again and receiving newness of life and then receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit?

  38. Thank you for your reply. I see the “laying on of hands” to receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit more in line with:

    Matthew 18:19-20 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    Here Jesus specifically states that in agreement between believer’s for the promises of God that He is in our midst or group. Not look to be quarrelsome but without explanation of Jesus being the imparter of the Holy Spirit some or maybe many will falsely understand that they have received that blessing from the individual who laid hands on them.

    Paul

  39. Made a mistake on my post, it was to be in response to Andrews post back to me.

    Thank you for your reply. I see the “laying on of hands” to receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit more in line with:

    Matthew 18:19-20 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    Here Jesus specifically states that in agreement between believer’s for the promises of God that He is in our midst or group. Not look to be quarrelsome but without explanation of Jesus being the imparter of the Holy Spirit some or maybe many will falsely understand that they have received that blessing from the individual who laid hands on them.

    Paul

  40. When we are born again we are INSTANTLY indwelt with the Holy Spirit, not at some later time – being born again is a “Work” of the Holy Spirit.

    Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    Blessings

  41. Shauna Jun 8th 2016

    Thank you for sound biblical balanced teaching. Keep it up!

  42. Johan Laubser Jun 8th 2016

    It amazes me how we get drawn into the same whirlpool of deception time and time again..
    If I understand the bible correct,and I believe I do, then Jesus said that if we cannot believe like little children, we will not inherit the kingdom.
    The gospel is simple.
    Jesus did EVERYTHING on the cross. There is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, nor to loose it, except if we deny works of the Holy Spirit and give it as recognition to the devil. Here we see again a battle between the doctrine of WORKS(LAW) against GRACE. People, if you do not want to believe the bible that said that IT IS FINISHED, then please consider this. Jesus is the unblemished LAMB of GOD. How much cleaner can our efforts make Him? That lie was spoken in paradise too, YOU CAN BE AS GOD! How? By trying to be independant of the Father by following the WORKS doctrine?
    Jesus is a FREE gift and we just have to accept Him as such. I know it sounds too good to be true, but this one is true because it is GOOD! The LAW will always try to deny the GRACE of JESUS!
    That is why He had to come to earth, to show us the way to the Father through Him, for free!
    If He took our past and future sin on Him, what can we do to get saved but to believe what He says? Get your minds(soul) renewed by the Spirit and it will be well with your spirit and body too…
    I do not want to be judgemental, I just want you to understand THE GOOD NEWS!

    Blessings

  43. While I am not challenging Andrews position/teaching on the Baptism, we need to keep in mind why the author of Hebrews felt it necessary to lay out again for the believe those 6 principles.

    Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    The writer is not condemning those who are unskillful in the teaching and understanding of these principles, simply that they should be fully understood as they are experienced (having had their senses exercised to discern both good and evil) and then taught. It is clear that the writer expected EVERY believer to be able to appropriately apply scripture to their testimony and when necessary teaching.

    If you can not identify the counterfeit, how can you know if what your are believing, living, and teaching is the truth!

    Disciples of Christ like bank tellers do not study how to identify the counterfeit, they are taught, trained, and exercised in the identification of the real and therefore can easily identify the counterfeit. We live in a very divisive world, especially as it applies to the Gospel of Christ, the Cross, and Salvation, and therefore must be trained.

    2nd Corinthians 11:1315 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

    Paul

  44. Johan Laubser AMEN!

  45. Hey Andrew, just keep sharing what God is giving you. I stand with you.
    Why? Because the teaching you where giving 10 years ago and the foundations and importance of baptism were such a blessing to me and really opened my eyes back then and I know the teachings will open the eyes of many now. Don’t grow weary in continuing to bring this apostolic truth.
    After I received the Word of God in the area of baptism. I took it to others in the church and many thought I was full of it, but over the years some have come back and apologized after God used the same message to eventually open their eyes.

  46. Renee Jun 8th 2016

    AMEN, Andrew & Mimi!

    The Body of Christ is being brought back to her 1st love where the Eternal Word of God (our Lord Jesus) is the only foundation, and the Spirit of Holiness leads us by that Word. Water baptism of itself doesn’t save anyone but it is an incredibly important act of faith in the Lord’s (and therefore ours) DEATH, BURIAL, and RESURRECTION. It’s a powerful event that takes place before all Heaven, before witnesses here on earth and before the devil/demons.

    We’re “buried” in water baptism because we died IN Him. When the adversary comes knocking, our Death IN Him means that the father of Lies has no legal authority over us because when we came up out of that water, we came up into Newness of Life. To live is Christ and Christ defeated the enemy at the Cross. Folks who have buried loved ones know with a certainty that they are dead. No government entity can force those buried loved ones to renew their license plates, go for an annual flu shot or etc. They’re dead and buried. Our water burial, shouts out to all comers that we died with/IN Christ Jesus and that we arose with/IN Him into the New Creature rule life. This is a very important foundation, and I thank you, Andrew, for being patient and allowing the Lord to continue to renew our minds.

    The Lord’s Supper is another incredibly important act of faith which logically follows the ‘once for all’ water baptism, but again, most folks don’t really have any idea why they do it, it’s just oftentimes going through the motions. May the Lord continue to graciously open our eyes.

  47. Renee Jun 8th 2016

    Johan Laubser, AMEN to your post, Bro. That too, is pictured so beautifully when we’re buried in water. WE died. It’s no longer about dead works we must do, but instead it’s about what He did for us. “It is finished.” Thank YOU, Abba, Son and Spirit of Truth!

  48. Thank you for allowing us to comment Andrew. One thing I noticed on the WHY DO DEMONS HATE BAPTISM? was alarming to me. First, you deleted brothers in Christ who had a different understanding than yours and Torbens. Second, you were deceitful in how you shut down the comments of that site. One of your commenters even said: “Please add your comment on Youtube rather than here.”
    Some are too smart to be signed up with YouTube thus can’t leave messages there.”

    Is that ok with you? That you stirred some in CHRIST’S Body to be mocked? And some to mock? That is division!

    Jesus prays that we all be one in the God and each other!

    This is what Hebrews 6 is all about. You used it to prove YOUR point of the foundations, however, listen to the context of Hebrews 6. Please ask the Holy Spirit for revelation knowledge as you read, as His words are from Him to us.

    WARNING AGAINST APOSTACY starting in Heb.5:11
    “About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the world of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

    Heb. 6:1″Therefore, let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

    And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding Him up to contempt.”

    What this speaks to me is that we are to preach the gospel to the unsaved, then, among the SAVED we are to LEAVE the elementary we were taught through the Holy Spirit, He has already enlightened us. He has given us discernment as we exercise that with comparing what we see and hear against his written word. As so many have already said, it is not about you or Torben or your ministry. It is about Jesus Christ and what He has already done for us. That we might go out and tell others having faith that HE is working in each one both to will and to do HIS good purpose.

    So, what I am seeing is that you want affirmation, that what you are telling us is the “right way.” Where God intends that we all have our say and allow the Holy Spirit to set right in each one of us as we come to Him. Andrew says: “But the fact is, no matter what people say, I am going to keep using these ‘foundations’ when getting people converted. If you want to stop me doing that, you are going to have to prove those ‘foundations’ wrong – or prove to me that the apostles did not use them when getting people saved.” Now you have left the Demons manifesting during water baptism to teaching the foundations. You shut down the comments responding to the WHY DO DEMONS HATE BAPTISM, not teaching the foundations.

    You keep saying that you have preached for years on repentance and holiness but NOW you think to preach on Baptism? A lot of what you are explaining is not God, but what YOU think God wants us to know. You spend an awful lot of time defending yourself and what YOUR ministry is accomplishing and we all need to change and start doing things the way you do them. God does not operate that way. He intends that we study to show ourselves approved. No Scripture that you have used “proves” what you are pushing. And this tiny little portal for us to comment does not allow us to “prove” what we believe God is showing us.

    Most of us reading this are mature Christians, most want to please God and not have others led astray. However, when you present controversies it takes us all away from worshipping God and clinging to Christ and going about the Father’s business, which is bringing His light into the world of darkness, and showing the love of Christ. Titus 3 is a good place to review.

    I have studied the Book of Acts. When you spoke of your foundations teaching you ask, “Why are we so different today?” Many of us ask you the same thing regarding YOUR water Baptisms. Nowhere in the Scriptures do we read that demons manifest during a water baptism. The Scriptures tell us BELIEVE and be baptized. When the Holy Spirit of God reveals and then seals us with the Holy Spirit, He does this the moment we believe. Next is water baptism. Why do the water baptisms of you and Torben involve manifesting of demons as you hold them underwater? Not once or twice, but becoming the NEW thing.

    It is ok that we ask you to go before God and spread out all of these comments and ask GOD if you are off. We are told to fix our eyes on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith. What it seems you are doing is getting our eyes fixed on the shiny thing over here. You are trying to introduce a new thing, a movement and are pushing that. Those who follow Jesus are those who spend time in prayer, in His word and walking with him to bring His light into the darkness to allow Him to set the captives free.

    If God is using your ministry to bring the life freeing news of Jesus Christ to others, He will be what we are talking about. Instead, there is so much controversy with what you are doing and how you are doing it and also the insistence that you are the only ones who “get it” and the rest of us are all in dead churches. Way too much time on YOU, not God.

    And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Thank God!

    “Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have obtained.” All of Philippians chapter 3 for context.

  49. Ric Schnekenburger Jun 8th 2016

    There is a real lack of spiritual discernment in those that water baptized that person. A failure to hear the Holy Spirit.

  50. S. Len Lipcsik Jun 8th 2016

    Thank you Andrew for clarifying your teaching. However, one term I would not use is “getting people saved”. Salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit. All we can do is to get the message to people so they can make a choice. I am blessed by your openness to the Holy Spirits influence in your life.

  51. Ejimanze Jun 8th 2016

    Much thanks Bro Andrew for flagging this issue and graciously giving us the floor to flog it. While I agree with your foundation stones, methinks Brother Dale by the Spirit of wisdom reconciled the confession unto salvation and the sinner’s prayer.
    When we realise that most of the people we lead to Christ may not have heard of Adam or Jesus before, or do not know how to pray or confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father, the evangelist helping them out does not contravene or contradict Scriptures – in my opinion.

    My sister Madeline also made a valid point – you can’t cage the Spirit with a formula when it is at work in a soul. Apostle Peter found that out when he was being hosted by Cornelius the Centurion. The Holy Spirit dispensed with the “foundation steps” and pleasantly upset Peter’s theology without any apologies. It was like my salvation experience – there were no steps but a Holy Spirit invasion of a lost soul in search of the Truth.

    And finally let’s keep in mind that we’re discussing the foundational principles here. Apostle Paul admonishes that we should leave these spiritual elementary school stuff behind, quit ye as men, and go on to perfection.

  52. From the first hand reports I have heard its fair to say that many of those following Torban Sondergaard do preach Baptisimal Regeneration and with religious cult like vigor.

    Biblically we are to lays hands on no one hastially and I would suggest that people let no one lay hands on them hastially either given the deceptive times we are living in.

    Decerning of spirits appears to be sadly lacking in these end times.

  53. Andrew,
    If I may interject on baptism.

    It is possible you may be holding to ritual and tradition a little tighter than necessary. The phrase, “be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” is not in water and the Greek word hamartia (sin) is not a plural. The reference to sin is not sins committed, but the stain of Adam’s sin on every soul; which is why we are all sinners from birth. Remission of sin is another way of saying born again or regeneration in the Spirit of YaHavah to renew the lost relationship between human and Creator. Rebirth is the baptism (pouring out of the water of the Spirit of YaHavah), complying with the promise of the outpouring of the Spirit. Water (H2O) baptism is the baptism of John to repentance. It is a statement of heart. “In the name of Jesus” is the infilling of the Spirit of YaHavah into a repentant heart, figuratively transforming flesh to spirit as a type of death. That, of course, will not happen if a person’s agenda is for power like the sorcerer of Acts 8.

    John 3:3-8—”You must be born again” is a simple statement with a long trail of reference links and key words. Some are included here. The Greek word “hudatos” translated to “water” means “shower or rain.” Jesus himself was baptized or anointed in this manner per the prophecy of Isaiah 11:1-3 and the anointing of the Holy one of Daniel 9:24f. The word image of John 3:3-8 “Except a man be born of water, even the Spirit,” is of the pouring out of YHVH’s Spirit from heaven. The imagery is of the baptism from heaven, as by the Spirit of YaHavah. John later described the day the Spirit was poured out of heaven on the Day of Pentecost in Revelation 5:6.

    Some extensive research has been done regarding Matthew 28:19b “baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” This part of verse 19 was added to some versions, probably by the earliest Catholic Church, for the purpose of ritual and because of a misunderstanding of the purposes of the two baptisms. I am not saying water baptism should not be done. I am only saying the baptism of Jesus Christ should not be ritualized with John’s baptism. Jesus was not baptized in water because he was repentant. Washing in water was a Temple ritual for priests before entering the Holy Place. Jesus enacted that ritual as YaHavah’s High Priest in his baptism by John, son of a priest. It was a washing of the flesh and quickening of the spirit to come before YaHavah. The twelve disciples were probably water baptized at the same time Jesus was, but they did not receive the Spirit until it was poured out after Jesus ascended into heaven. Rev. 5:6. No hands were laid on them on that day, only the fire of the Spirit; which one could say was the hand of YaHavah.

    Matthew 28:18-20 18—And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to me in heaven and in the earth. 19—Go accordingly and teach all peoples, 20—teach them to be watchmen of all things that I commanded you and know I am with you always, until the end of the age. Amen.

    According to researcher/author, Standford Rives, this text— baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost —was not in Matthew’s original manuscript or early translations.

    (Rives, Standford (2012-06-09). Original Gospel of Matthew: The Final Reconstruction of the Earliest Matthew (Kindle Locations 2635-2641). (Kindle Edition) Matthew 28: (18) And Jesus came to the disciples and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.” (19) “Go to them and make disciples of all nations in my name. (20.1) And guard and teach them to carry out forever all things whatever I commanded you. (20.2) Act as you have seen me act, and instruct people in accordance with instructions I have given you. (20.3) And behold, I am with you until the consummation of the ages.”

    Acts 2:38-42 38—Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and you shall receive the gift of the Spirit of YHVH. 39—For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as YHVH our Elohim shall call. 40—And with many other words he testified and exhorted, saying, Save yourselves from this perverse generation. 41—Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [to them] about three thousand souls. 42—And they continued steadfast in the apostle’s doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

    Remission of sin (the stain of Adam’s sin). These verses do not specify water baptism. They do imply Spirit baptism.

    A MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE TWO BAPTISMS

    Acts 19:1-7 1—And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2—he said to them, Have you received the Spirit of YHVH since you believed? And they said to him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Spirit of YHVH. 3—And he said to them, to what then were you baptized? And they said, to Johns baptism. 4—Then said Paul, John indeed baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5—When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6—And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Spirit of YHVH came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied. 7—And all the men were about twelve.

    Let us suppose that there is no water available at the time of repentance. Is YaHavah going to hold back his Spirit from the repentant? When I repented and received Jesus I had a swimming pool in my back yard. I asked my friends who led me to Jesus to baptize me then and there. They would not because they said it had to be done by the pastor of the church. And that would be according to his schedule for baptisms. Did I, or did I not receive the Holy Spirit when I repented? It would be a sad state of affairs if people hold to ritual and tradition above Bible truth and not expect the infilling of the Spirit of YaHavah until it could be scheduled by the church. I didn’t receive water baptism for several months.

  54. Mother Kay Jun 8th 2016

    Very interesting comments I read them all. Just want to add that Johan Laubser spoke exactly as I feel. No putting God in a box as heaven is higher than earth so are Gods ways higher than ours. Our whole purpose of being here on earth is to make us ready to rule and reign with Him. Thank you Andrew for opening up this conversation

  55. Mike Fuller Jun 8th 2016

    one thing i know . we are not to build a theology based on an exception to the rule . that is to say , we do not ever say ‘ a person doesn’t have to be baptised because what if they die before they can be ” -as to impose that “exception” over the word of god is to oppose the word of god . do not be concerned with the exception . God knows the heart he knows if that person received the word to be baptised they would do so at first opportunity .but it really is a rare exception . in truth among the millions how many do w know who believed in the lord Jesus and then immediately died? it happens but it is an exception. so we don’t impose an experienced based perception OVER the word of God . :) we dont conform the word of god to us .. but us to it .

  56. Johan Laubser Jun 8th 2016

    May I add this. “Sin” means to miss the mark.
    What mark? Eternity with God I guess…
    Well, if Jesus answered that if you confess(with your mouth, oops, what about the poor death and dumb people? Oh, it is a heart thing…) that He came in the flesh and is the Son of God then you WILL inherit, enter into His kingdom.
    Law will always remove Jesus as the center and put self effort in His place.
    How can one be wrong by putting Him in everything as the “Beginning and the End”? When I start with Jesus as The Beginning and end with Him as the End, then there is now space for Law in between…
    Get rid of the carnal thinking of self effort. Let the Holy Spirit renew your mind, He always elevates Jesus. By adding anything to the work on the cross ,you are not removing Jesus from the cross, you are putting Him there…like the LAWMAKERS did….! HE DIED BECAUSE OF THE LAW!!!!
    Blessings

  57. John, a journalist and a christian Jun 8th 2016

    I am a pensioner and have been a born again spirit filled Christian since 1970 since being delivered from the occult and witchcraft at a Teacher Training College in the United Kingdom after trying to destroy the Christian Union.
    I returned to my home address but very few churches in the area would accept my conversion. Some were afraid and closed their doors on me.
    I was counselled at college to be baptised in water and the only local church was the Baptist Church and later I was baptised in water.
    I later sought to be baptised in the Holy Ghost but there was contention between Charismatics and Pentecostals over what should happen. However, I did receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost at a Christian drug rehabilitation centre where I was a volunteer at one of their prayer meetings.
    To say that I was still demon possessed which a number of Christians were stating was misleading as folk that were saying this to me showed no discernment.
    When facing discouragement from them with their persistence that I was, the Holy Spirit lead me to a pastor who was totally blind. He could only feel me and was unable to see my face. But he had discernment and counselled me when he recognised that I was oppressed and not possessed.
    I would suggest that using theology to say that demons manifest themselves at water baptism is not scriptural. For I had repented of my sins to become a new creature in Christ Jesus before I was baptised in water and later baptised in the Holy Ghost.
    I would not allow such false teachers to the likes of Benny Hinn and Morris Cerullo who are treated as prophets in the Christian Church, to place their hands on my head to receive such. It makes me shudder to think what they do and get up to using the name of Jesus. I was set free from demonic activity not to return to the vomit.
    Praise the Lord!

  58. Dan Thompson Jun 8th 2016

    This is good. However, praying the “prayer” does help cement the repentance and faith part of the foundational values – it is not the actual prayer but the repentance and the faith that are cemented in “the prayer” are the foundations. So when presenting the gospel we talk about repentance, leading them through that in prayer, talking about faith and leading them through that in prayer.

    We don’t want to throw out the “prayer” but understand what we are accomplishing through this conversation with the Lord.

    Rambling but hopeful you see my point. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

  59. Way to go Andrew! Sadly, the church has dumbed down the whole spiritual issue involved in Baptism. Baptism does much more than we can imagine, in the spiritual realm. And your exegesis on the Hebrews passage is right on, again. Not enough teaching on this is the church
    today. How many people have an understanding of the doctrine of laying on of hands. No messages on this. Keep it up, Brother.

  60. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    In reply to a number here, let me just repeat what I stated earlier-

    Sadly, what we find over and over is that even people who have been believers for a long time often have large parts of their ‘foundation’ missing or totally inadequate.

    We wish it were not so, but that is what we find everywhere we go. So isn’t it necessary for us to remedy this lack – just like Paul in Acts 19? Absolutely! Let us be “foundations” preachers, my friends.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  61. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    IMPORTANT FROM ANDREW:

    From reading the above comments it is clear that many would benefit from looking at our “Shocking Bible Study – The Lost Foundations” Here is the link to it-

    http://www.revivalschool.com/shocking-bible-study-the-lost-foundations-by-andrew-strom/

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  62. Pierre Jun 8th 2016

    Just curious,
    Does the bible says that Everyone that got saved during Paul’s ministries ,healed people?

  63. Andrew Jun 8th 2016

    Pierre – the most pertinent Scripture I can think of in answer to your question is found in Mark 16:17-18. Here it is below-

    “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  64. Pierre Jun 8th 2016

    Thank You!

  65. Andrew, are you recommending to folk that they should pick up serpents (deadly) and drink deadly things? I wouldn’t.

    Blessings

  66. Thanks Andrew.
    A good article.
    Very basic, simple , … And true.

  67. Elisha Jun 9th 2016

    Praise God for your solid teaching….pray that God will continue to anoint you with boldness. The gospel has always caused an offense to those who do not want to accept sound doctrine. God wants our hearts and change our thoughtsRomans 8:5-6
    Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace

  68. Kereama Williams Jun 9th 2016

    Praise God for his word. Obedience to God is what God requires of us. Without it we are lost. Jesus gave us the key
    Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

  69. Andrew you are so right. I would respectfully urge those who differ, to open their minds, read again the Gospel account of Jesus baptism by John, and His reply to Nicodemus (who was trapped in his natural thinking) “statement of confession” First Jesus insisted that John baptize Him “in order to fulfill all righteousness” dare we presume that we should not follow that personal example He set? And the Holy ghost came upon him visibly, audibly, plus it was not ’till then that His ministry began.
    Second allow me to paraphrase Jesus reply to Nicodemus’ confession “we know you are a teacher sent from God”
    “Unless you are born again of water and the Spirit you can not see, or enter, the kingdom of God ” Jesus marveled that Nicodemus, a respected Jewish religious leader, did not understand.The word from the Master Himself should end the matter.
    I am eternally grateful the church i have belonged to since 1965 is full of people who have received that promise and the accompanying signs. My question to any one outside of this is “Do you want to receive the Holy Spirit NOW?”
    One last point, the “shall” Peter used in Acts 2:38 (kjv) is imperative, not a might or a maybe, the Promise is to all.
    Pr Michael

  70. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    Ken – thanks for the amusing reply!

    -Andrew

  71. I find these sorts of arguments to be human ego driven rather than about God. To start with:

    Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

    You can’t ‘achieve’ salvation by ‘doing good works’ or undergoing a procedure, irrespective of what they’re about. It’s a free gift. I believe that Christianity is an utterly individual faith, notwithstanding the individuals make up a community. Every individual is different, has their own personal relationship with God, and their own path to follow. For the thief on the Cross, his path to salvation was:

    Luk 23:39 And one of the hanged criminals blasphemed Him, saying, If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.
    Luk 23:40 But answering, the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, for you are in the same judgment?
    Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly, for we receive things worthy of what we did. But this One did nothing wrong.
    Luk 23:42 And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come in Your kingdom.
    Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with Me in Paradise.

    I see no evidence of baptism here – either of water or the Holy Spirit – although one could argues he required the latter to make the statement. Nevertheless, no ‘ritual’, no tongues of fire, etc. was required for him to be saved by Christ – who can do anything He likes whenever He likes with whomever He likes.

    The only essential element is faith and always has been. Nothing can come between Christ and any human being who chooses to come to Him. Jesus knocks on the door of someone’s heart; that person decides whether or not to open the door – there’s no butler getting in the way/mediating the relationship.

    I believe such debates to be the same as the differences between Jews and Christians in regard to eating. Notably, Paul said, live by your own conscience and do what you know to be right for you in the context of the Love of God. Some people love ritual; others find it Pharasaical – and when it starts to create an exclusive club, it is.

    I’ve always been struck by the example of Abraham’s preparedness to sacrifice Isaac. God did the same. I’m quite sure anyone trying it now would be put away for the rest of their lives.

    We are all called in different ways to do different things. While I see no problem with different Churches having their own rites and rituals, when these introduce dissension, judge others, or are used to hamper people relating to Christ, the presence of the ravening wolf in sheep’s clothing in Christ’s Church is very evident.

    Jesus said, Mat 7:16 From their fruits you shall know them.

    Not from their rites/rituals. The Pharisees and Sadducees were very good at the latter. So before becoming so self-righteous that anyone feels they are able to judge, or even determine, the quality of the relationship between any individual and Christ, remember His words:

    Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
    Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?
    Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; “depart from Me, those working lawlessness!”

  72. Kereama Williams Jun 9th 2016

    Anne Jesus also said Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Etc

  73. So he did Kereama.

    Note the crucial point – everything rests on the individual believing or not believing.

    By arguing that anything we define as physical/spiritual ritual baptism or representation of baptism, is required for salvation, one is saying that the thief on the Cross was not saved and/or that Christ is limited in what He did and/or can do by earthly circumstances.

    As others have already said, Christ has already done it all. It is finished. As individuals, we can accept His free gift or not. And that is all we can do. If we consider that anything more is necessary to ‘earn’ the gift, we deny Christ and what He did on the Cross and reject that gift. If we think we can be anything but humanly weak sinners, we are deluded. We can only do our best to give ourselves over to Christ.

    Baptism takes many forms. Are we talking the splash on the head or are all the people so baptised damned? On the other hand, if one considers:

    Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
    Joh 3:6 That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit.

    So is he talking about full immersion baptism? Or is he talking about the ‘water’ of the womb or that our physical bodies comprise mostly water. In order to be ‘saved’ we must be born both physically (and die) and spiritually.

    Was the woman at the well saved? The ‘water’ she was promised was to drink. Was Lazarus (the poor servant) saved? If baptism is essential to salvation, why did Jesus not do it Himself?

    Don’t get me wrong. I love water baptism, the symbology, the representation of cleansing and rebirth. (I’m less convinced it should be a public show in front of an audience, especially with microphones etc. but I’m sure for some Christians that is their way of celebrating the glory of God. Go them!) It clearly isn’t necessary for salvation or the thief on the Cross never got to paradise (along with many others) and Jesus lied.

  74. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    The entire point we make is that baptism must be done in FAITH.

    And that it is not a mere “symbol”. But it is what the New Testament says it is – an actual baptism into the DEATH AND BURIAL of Christ.

    That is where the power is – right there.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  75. Splitting hairs Andrew.

    You’re saying that any petty tyrant, by controlling when someone can be ‘baptised’ with water, can determine that person’s salvation. At least, I hope you’re not saying that because if you are, you’re no more than a petty tyrant as the Pharisees and Sadducees were, inhibiting faith in Jesus Christ by telling other people that they have to please you, not God.

    The power is in simple faith. Any human being who genuinely accepts (judged by God in the heart) the sacrifice of Christ is ‘saved’ in direct relationship with Him. Christ doesn’t need you or anyone else to do that as a mediator. Christ is the Mediator between God and man.

    Water baptism is a symbol and, when done in faith, a very powerful one, as I’ve said. Human beings regularly need an external means to reflect internal changes. There’s nothing wrong with that. But neither you nor anyone else can control the salvation of another human being – for or against.

    The death and burial of Christ is to the self/ego of humanity which is where humanity always gets it wrong, as they did in Eden. They knew better, through their own judgment of what was ‘good’ or ‘bad’. ‘Seems right to me’. Thus the fall.

    Let God’s word speak for itself. Where is baptism mentioned here?

    Rom 8:28 But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;
    Rom 8:29 because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
    Rom 8:30 But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
    Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
    Rom 8:32 Truly He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up on behalf of us all, how will He not freely give all things to us with Him?
    Rom 8:33 Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? God is the One justifying!
    Rom 8:34 Who is he condemning? It is Christ who has died, but rather also is raised, who also is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession on our behalf.
    Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
    Rom 8:36 Even as it has been written, “For Your sake we are killed all the day; we are counted as sheep of slaughter.” Psa. 44:22
    Rom 8:37 But in all these things we more than conquer through Him loving us.
    Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

    And you’re saying that the absence of water baptism can do it? Are you the one ‘justifying’ the elect with your judgement / rules/rituals?

    Love, Andrew. It’s all only about Love. Where is baptism mentioned in this:

    1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
    1Co 13:2 And if I have prophecies, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
    1Co 13:3 And if I give out all my goods, and if I deliver my body that I be burned, but I do not have love, I am not profited anything.
    1Co 13:4 Love has patience, is kind; love is not envious; love is not vain, is not puffed up;
    1Co 13:5 does not behave indecently, does not pursue its own things, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil;
    1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth.
    1Co 13:7 Love quietly covers all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    1Co 13:8 Love never fails. But if there are prophecies, they will be caused to cease; if tongues, they shall cease; if knowledge, it will be caused to cease.
    1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
    1Co 13:10 but when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.
    1Co 13:11 When I was an infant, I spoke as an infant, I thought as an infant, I reasoned as an infant. But when I became a man, I caused to cease the things of the infant.
    1Co 13:12 For now we see through a mirror in dimness, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will fully know even as I also was fully known.
    1Co 13:13 And now faith, hope, and love, these three things remain; but the greatest of these is love.

  76. Amazing this is even an issue being discussed. The bible is plain and it’s clear on the subject. Keep preaching truth Andrew.

  77. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    Anne – you are completely wrong about what we are saying. You very badly need to look at my in-depth Bible Study on this issue. Then hopefully you will understand. Here is the link to it-

    http://www.revivalschool.com/shocking-bible-study-the-lost-foundations-by-andrew-strom/

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  78. Andrew, no human being needs to do an ‘in-depth Bible Study’ to find salvation. That is the whole point. They need only to have faith that Jesus died on the Cross for their sins and invite him into their hearts, in Love. It’s a simple message, called ‘foolishness’ by those who seek to keep others from the Love of God.

    That is the message of the thief on the Cross. All that is required is Faith in Love – the Love that God has for every one of us, married to Christ.

    …even as Christ also loved the assembly and gave Himself up on its behalf,
    Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify it, cleansing it by the washing of the water in the Word,
    Eph 5:27 that He might present it to Himself as the glorious assembly, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such things, but that it be holy and without blemish.

    Note – cleansed by the washing of the water in the Word (who is Jesus Christ).

    Try to patronise me all you like. You know that you’ve departed from that ‘washing of the water of the Word’ – which is the true meaning of ‘baptism’.

    God bless you too!

  79. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    Anne – Since you refuse to even look at the Bible Study, it is very difficult to discuss this topic with you.

    How can anyone make up their mind without actually looking at the Scriptures on a given subject?

    By the way, your “Thief on the Cross” argument is covered in that Bible Study.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  80. Andrew, are you saying that Faith in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to save me from my sins is not enough for my salvation?

  81. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    That absolutely is the way of salvation, Anne.

    But the question we are asking is – What is the biblical way to get those “foundations” cemented inside you?

    That is the question.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  82. I know what is my only ‘foundation’ Andrew:

    Eph 2:13 But now, in Christ Jesus you who then were afar off, came to be near by the blood of Christ.
    Eph 2:14 For He is our peace, He making us both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition,
    Eph 2:15 in His flesh causing to cease the enmity, the Law of the commandments in decrees, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace,
    Eph 2:16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, slaying the enmity in Himself.
    Eph 2:17 And coming, He proclaimed “peace to you, the ones afar off, and to the ones near.” Isa. 57:19
    Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
    Eph 2:19 So, then, you are no longer strangers and tenants, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and of the family of God,
    Eph 2:20 being built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the cornerstone,
    Eph 2:21 in whom all the building being fitted together grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
    Eph 2:22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

    Where does this mention baptism? I repeat, I think baptism is great, but the primary meaning is being washed in the water in the Word, as stated here. Christ is not only the foundation but the cornerstone of the foundation. There is no other, certainly not mediated by a human being.

  83. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    Here are the “six foundations” according to Hebrews, Anne-

    (1) Repentance, (2) Faith, (3) Baptisms, (4) Laying on of Hands, (5) Resurrection of the Dead, (6) Eternal Judgment.

    Those are the six foundations. (Heb 6:1-2).

    Until you actually read the Bible Study, I am afraid I cannot discuss this with you any further.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  84. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    FOR EVERYONE – LINK TO THE BIBLE STUDY ON THIS TOPIC-

    “Shocking Bible Study – The Lost Foundations”. Here is the link-

    http://www.revivalschool.com/shocking-bible-study-the-lost-foundations-by-andrew-strom/

    Blessings to all,

    Andrew Strom.

  85. watchful Jun 9th 2016

    Someone spoke up near the beginning about how we all have different stories and didn’t necessarily follow this exact pattern…….that is true……but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t learn and do according to the scriptures. It is His mercy if we get through any departure from the word safely….it doesn’t mean it is an ideal way to do things. Our experience is not the plumbline, His word is.

    Baptism is not necessary to salvation, but it is at very least a vital spiritual weapon for our walk. I have seen people fall away and backslide because of not being baptized……..if God says to do a thing we had just better do it and the more we understand why the better.

    ValleyAnt, you have some good wisdom there, everything in spirit, I agree with that, and hope we are all increasing in Him. Where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.

  86. Khandie Jun 9th 2016

    Very well said brother Andrew, I agree completely with all that you’ve shared here! Thank you dear brother for never compromising the truth as it is always better to please God rather than man. May we all receive what The Spirit says to The Church. God bless you and your family always.

  87. If baptism is required then what about bedridden folks in hospitals and nursing homes? What about the poor soldier in the fox hole that cannot get to the waters? Are we to believe that these poor souls are condemned to eternal punishment because they cannot get to the water? This discussion sounds to me like a group of Campbellites arguing about the waters of Bapiism and obeying the gospel for goodness sakes. Pure Bravo Sierra.

  88. Zululander Jun 9th 2016

    Valleyant said:
    Grace allows people to just be so that if God requires or charges them to be water baptized, then He will send someone to both tell them and facilitate their baptism.

    That means if someone doesn’t show me where the poor are & facilitate my helping them then the command to help & feed the poor is irrelevant to me.
    The Lord said “how can you say you love me when you don’t do as I tell you”
    SO all the Lords commands are just suggestions or if we feel the Lord is telling us a second time. SO actually we don’t need the bible to tell us, We just wait on God & He will tell us & send a facilitator
    All the stuff about marriage & relationships are just suggestions to do if & when someone tells us & facilitates our doing it ???
    Let me give you a simple explanation of Grace.
    It’s Gods ability IN YOU to accomplish His will. Don’t confuse grace with mercy. Mercy is not getting the punishment we deserve, eg the woman caught in adultery.
    Paul preached by the Grace (ability that God gives) of God
    The grace of God teaches us not to sin.
    Where sin does abound grace (Gods ability to not sin) does much more abound. No excuse to sin. We can overcome with His grace
    In short, grace is a verb, an action of God from within us, it’s NOT passive, allowing us to do anything with no consequence.
    God commands us to be baptized & filled with the Spirit. It’s a choice of obedience or disobedience.
    For the argumentative there’s no answer, for the seeker there’s the bible & great explanations like the one Andrew gave. For the lazy there’s also no answer as they argue without even reading his explanation

  89. Anne–Do not be discouraged, you are spot on. It is all about Jesus. What you are putting into words is what Paul had put into words in Galatians 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” When we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus He leads us into all righteousness. Just as He regenerates us that we would even want to know about God and getting right with Him, He stirs us because we are being conformed to the image of Christ.

    Notice that Paul in each greeting to each church thanks God for the faith of the saints. In Romans he says “For I long to see you, that I might impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established—that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.”

    “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours…”

    To the Galatian saints: “Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father…”

    To the Ephesian saints: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will….”

    Philippians: “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ….”

    Colossians: 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

    1 Thessalonians: 5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

    6 And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, 7 so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. 8 For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything. 9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

    Do you see the difference? I do not know if your desire to be an apostle or prophet is the goal in your life. However, Do you see how Paul constantly gives credit for the saints to God and gives glory to God that He is able to save to the uttermost. Nothing is said about how we must do this or read OUR book and Bible study. The saints are always addressed as FELLOW believers saved by the grace of God, able to see the things of God. Paul does not push his agenda, but allows God to flow through him to reach the hearers. It is always about God, the power of the Holy Spirit and what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has already done for us. “LEAVING THE DISCUSSION OF THE ELEMENTARY PRINCIPLES OF CHRIST….”

    When you push YOUR agenda on His saints it has no power. You are not encouraging us in the faith, but causing division. You are not encouraging love for one another because our eyes and hearts are fixed on Him, but rather WE all need to change and do things YOUR way. You are filled with controversy, causing others to be as pompous in their opinions. No one is against your ministry in preaching the gospel to the unsaved, however, that is not what brings the controversy. That comes when you demand that we see we have been doing things wrong all this time and only you and Torben know how to reform the way we all do God’s work. Throughout the Bible, when believers see God at work they bring that report back and joyously share it with fellow believers. They do not say, “Look, we are doing this the right way, if you follow what we are doing you can be used by God too.” How insulting is that to fellow believers?! God is able Andrew.

    2 Timothy 2:23But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing. 25He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.…

  90. Johan Laubser Jun 9th 2016

    Khandie
    If you really want to please God, then you just have to accept His free gift in Jesus His Son. It is so simple.

    Andrew,
    that foundations you refer to is what Jesus became for us on the cross. He even became our rightiousness so that we can be rightious, He became our Saviour so we can be saved, He took condemnation on Him so that we will not be condemned, He proved to be Holy so that we can be Holy and so on…
    I thank God for not having to go through all those troubles myself. THANK YOU JESUS for the full price paid.
    The Holy spirit CONVINCES us of Rightiousness,Sin and Condemnation. Every day He is trying to tell our soul(will, intelect,emotions) that Jesus became that for us so that we do not have to be judged for those( Rightiousness,Sin and Condemnation) mentioned. Now that is GOOD NEWS!!!!!

    AS A SIDE NOTE; Did Jesus not say that we have to many teachers, there is but ONE and that is the HOLY SPIRIT?
    Blessings

  91. mollypitcher Jun 9th 2016

    Andrew, Agreeing with you stand on baptism in water wholeheartedly:
    Thank you for your stand for the scriptural prescription of salvation. Acts 2:38 definitely does express the prescribed thing to do. If you have faith, you take the first steps of obedience. If someone cannot go into the water of baptism with their belief and repentance, what great exploits do they expect to be doing? The world is 2/3 water and He did ask us to walk through the fire or on hot beds of coals. When Yeshuah went into the Jordan to be baptized by John the Baptist, he answered “to fulfill all righteousness”. If anyone is exempt from baptism, then it would have been the King of Kings in the flesh, God with us….(He did not NEED to be baptized, but He did it). How much above Jesus do people think they are to not follow His example of baptism? Shalom and blessings in our Messiah eternally.

  92. Thank you for this article. I am a born again Christian and also initially did the whole ‘asking Jesus into my heart” thing as that is what I was told to do. Many years later I was for the first time exposed to adult baptism. I was baptised as an adult by being submerged in water in front of a Church congregation. However, although I know I am saved, I do not think I experience the baptism of power as I am not able to speak/pray in tongues. What does this mean? I am worried it means that I am not doing something right, or that it “didn’t work properly”. I don’t mind not being able to speak in tongues if God doesn’t give me that gift, but I just want to make sure it’s ok if I can’t? What other signs accompany the baptism of power? And is this baptism of power necessary before getting involved in healing ministry? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

  93. Johan Laubser Jun 9th 2016

    AM
    That is exactly what Jesus said. An adulterous people goes after signs and wonders. Do not feel less child of God because you are not doing these”things”. First seek His Kingdom and His Righteousness and all will be given unto you. How? By accepting the FREE GIFT, JESUS. No strings attached. We ALL preach the gifts to be practiced when being reborn, but little of us actually does it. We are hippocrates!
    I am serious. Do not allow people make you feel guilty for they are not there either…
    Is any one on this forum doing the 6 foundations? Raised the dead? NO!!!? IT is because it is spiritual. Think with your spirit and not soul and you will be set free of this LAW.
    Be free and be blessed.

  94. AMEN Johan Laubser, you are spot on.

    Blessings

  95. Andrew Jun 9th 2016

    IN ANSWER TO RECENT COMMENTS-

    “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” (Mark 16:16-18 – THE WORDS OF JESUS).

    Blessings to all,

    Andrew Strom