RAP SONG “NAMES NAMES” of PROSPERITY PREACHERS!

Take a listen to this new Christian rap song below. A song that is really making waves – even in the circles of ‘Charisma’ magazine! -Your comments?-



Posted in TV & Videos by Andrew on April 17th, 2013 at 8:02 am.

445 comments

445 Replies

  1. It may be the truth what they are saying in this song. I do not endorse the way these men have presented the gospel by preaching about wealth.

    But is it right to attack ministers of the gospel in this fashion?

    Christians attacking Christians, is a camp divided against itself.

    We could ask the question, How much money are these singers getting for their song? Making money off of some ones misfortune is equally as evil.

    Should not these men (the singers) be weeping and crying at the altar that God would deliver these ministers?

    Seriously I do not think those in the world are impressed with this type of Christianity no matter if your the prosperity preacher or the singer putting them down.

    GaryB

  2. Andrew Apr 17th 2013

    Jesus did the same

    So did the apostles

    I felt it was very appropriate – and biblical

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  3. Suzanne Apr 17th 2013

    The Apostle Paul named names! Keep warning the sheep!

  4. I agree with Gary.

  5. Mark Elam Apr 17th 2013

    I agree with Andrew and Suzanne.

  6. LarryH Apr 17th 2013

    Heresy among those who are leading people on the broad to hell MUST be exposed. Being popular, rich or famous does not give you a free pass to distort the Word of God. As men and women of God, we must be ready to reprove a wrong message and the messenger WITH THE TRUTH OF THE WORD not just another opinion. And, yes, we should anguish over these ministers but even more so for those who follow them and not Jesus.

    Matthew 23:15 “”Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves”

    We are closing in on the end of all things. We must stand up for the standard that the Word had set and not hide any more. People are dying and going to hell while we see to better ourselves.

    Andrew, thank you for your postings. As for the rap….the message is clear, but I am sorry for the vehicle especially after studying so much about rap music and its origin. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

    I am a former Word of Faith pastor that has come to my senses and seen the light. I am a Word minister and learning more each day how to be a true disciple of Jesus.

    LarryH

  7. Rodney Apr 17th 2013

    Andrew, I like the song and mostly agree. However, why is Joyce Meyer and TD Jakes mentioned? If it’s just because they have made a lot of money (and no other reason), then you would also have to include Rick Warren, Tim LaHaye, Bill Hybels, Hal Lindsey, etc. What are your thoughts on that?
    Rodney

  8. Tilman Apr 17th 2013

    How come that “Christian” teachers make a lot of money by preaching the gospel? Didn’t Jesus say: “You have received without paying, so give without being payed” (Mt 10:8)?

  9. David Hall Apr 17th 2013

    I feel it is very good for young people to hear the truth about these false teachers. These people are NOT Christians, as some of these people are Freemasons and are put in their high places by the enemy.

    As the Raper pointed out, these people twist the word of God and portray him as a Giant Vending Machine that only rewards the Socially elite ‘Christians’ who sow into their coffers.

    We are being attacked here in Cyprus by these kind of ‘churches’ based on Warrens New Age garbage….we have a small House Fellowship and we get no support from anyone. We moved to this place from England nearly 6 years ago and have had nothing but trouble from the people who love all of that garbage…but we speak out against it and get isolated as lepers….however we are used to that as we are treated the same by the cult we were in for nearly 50 years…the false Watchtower Religion…..only a remnant of true believers will get raptured as the 10 Virgins tells us…bless you David

  10. I applaud the individual for his willingness to speak his truth and unleash what will undoubtedly be a lot of criticism from high places. His boldness shows his level of dedication to Christ. He has sung what many people have murmured among themselves for years.My only problem with it is that I don’t recall Joyce Meyers teaching prosperity. I could be wrong. Some people could be more subtle with it perhaps. She obviously is not struggling and presents herself well but does she actually promote prosperity? There is a difference in making a lot of money along the way when staying true to your calling and actually teaching a prosperity doctrine. All and all I agree with most the song.

  11. stephen boyce Apr 17th 2013

    joseph prince teaches the holy spirit does not convict sin

  12. watchful Apr 17th 2013

    WOW!! Very powerful, y’all! Preach it bros!!

    The purpose of the song isn’t to warn the false teachers, it is to warn the flock that is being fleeced by them. Who says these boys haven’t weeped and prayed already! Seems to me like they have!

  13. Rodney Apr 17th 2013

    I must confess that I was surprised to see Joyce Meyer as a speaker at a conference and listed with such pea brains as Kenneth Copeland. I was amazed that she and he were on the same billing. Go figure! Copeland ought to be jailed. He bought that fancy jet for 24 million and then calmly informed his followers that they would be footing the bill, after which he took it on vacation to Tahiti with his friends.
    I work for a large mission organisation and I can tell you that $24 million would be at least 10 years income for our organisation. We could do amazing things with that money.

  14. fabakary Apr 17th 2013

    I think that is why the scripture forbids novice to have authority to serve the body. The rap message sound like a youth , who might perhaps be less than twenty years as a Christian and do not be surprise to hear he may be even less than ten years in the faith. The desire after righteousness may be there, but our Lord told us many will strive to ENTER IN BUT THEY CANNOT. Those that enter in he says must be like children , that speak of humility, and in many cases experience is a good teacher of humility. The untested , untried youth have yet to learn , the mistake and the wrong concepts a genuine servant of God can fall into ; unlike Paul such will rebuke peter as a false teacher , not a servant of God ; because he failed the test refusing to eat with the gentiles . This youths seemed to name almost every popular western christian I heard of as a false teacher , not just some one who teach a wrong concepts. There is no sign this youth is speaking by revelation but by sight . Popularity, being famous does not necessarily mean one is false , because the scripture says our Lord was once famous because of the mighty works. I do not believe this youth is speaking from the authority of God but rather using his musical talents , to do with unguided zeal what he is doing. I for one will not take the risk to approve the message given by this youth knowing every idle word men give , will give an account on the day of Judgment. If one do not walk by revelation to know who is and who is not a servant of God , then the many false concepts that can come even from true servants of God , will tempt one to conclude such and such a one is not a servant of God because he teaches this or that . Lets be careful.

  15. Antonio Apr 17th 2013

    The consideration of the motive of exposing false teachers is relevant here. If it is out of love for those being misled into the broad road to destruction, such action is perfectly justifiable and in fact commendable. Judgment made should not be out of condemnation as that will be the role of God to do so. By remaining silent and allowing the unwary to be led astray will be an act of unloving. We should pray for these false teacher hoping they will come to repentance one day.

  16. It’s about time SOMEONE named names! These people are wolves in sheep’s clothing, come to fleece the flock, not feed it. God has given us His word to use as discernment, and everything in this song is true to the word as far as I can see. Unveiling of false teachers is biblical!

  17. I sat back and wept with joy after hearing the song. What is OBVIOUS to those with discernment is lost among so many. Like the rapper said, even unbelievers can see what he sings about. Kids today aren’t stupid – they see what’s on tv about “Christianity” and want nothing of it. Can’t blame them at all! This song is part of our Lord’s exposing the false in order to bring it down and cause an earthquake within the body. Wheat and tares – to which bundle will the individual belong? Those following prosperity/best life now, etc. obviously are among the tares. It is what it is. So excited about this song! Our Lord uses whom He can to do that which He will. Hallelujah!

  18. Gary B,

    You wrote, But is it right to attack ministers of the gospel in this fashion?

    The ones mentioned are not “ministers of the gospel”. They are ‘ministers’ of a false gospel – one which cannot save. The whole Word of Faith (Word/Faith) teaching is based on ‘another Jesus’ [2 Cor 11:4]. I recommend D.R. McConnell’s book A Different Gospel as a great expose on the Word of Faith teachings.

  19. LaTonya Apr 17th 2013

    LOVE IT!! It’s about time that we start to shake things up a bit.

  20. Moreno dal Bello wrote an excellent article on the WoF view of the Atonement titled Atonement Where?.

  21. GaryB This is not Christian attacking Christian. Who says they are Christians? You know them by heir fruit. This is pointing out wolves. People who don’t read their bible are being deceived by wolves. These wolves are the ones who bring shame on the church.

  22. LaTonya Apr 17th 2013

    This is the link to Shai Linne on youtube talking about the project, pretty sound to me….

    http://youtu.be/by-JDhaUBGk

  23. Ron Warne Apr 17th 2013

    This is the most disappointing thread I have read on this sight. Absolutely we should expose false doctrines and teachers. In the process of feeling the need to expose some, the innocent AND THE ANOINTED have been smeered. You can’t listen to Joyce Meyer and say she is a prosperity preacher. Anyone accusing Creflo Dollar of being a prosperity preacher hasn’t been listening to him lately. God has gotten ahold of the man, he teaches the whole council of God and your information is dated and therefore damaging.

    This thread bleeds self righteousness.

  24. These are the last days. The recent decline has a lot to do with false “prophets” among us and our unwillingness to speak up against those. Jer 23:5-32, Rom16:17,18 and 2Ti 4:1-4.

    See also http://www.moralwindows.org -> Choose a Document -> Letter to Churches

    There are many so called travelling Speakers/”prophets” who are visiting small churches to fill their coffers. Feel free to copy and distribute this letter to those churches which are mesmerized by the name and public image of their visitors.

  25. katalambana Apr 17th 2013

    Watch your tongues saints. Don’t bring judgment upon yourselves by carelessly passing judgment on your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, without praying and getting the log out of your own eye first. You’re accountable for every idle word that comes out of your mouth. Do your words and judgments represent the heart of God? Are they Holy Spirit inspired? Are they flowing from the Mind of Christ or your flesh? ~ SELAH
    If you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself.
    That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died (1 Cor. 11:29-30).

  26. OneBody Apr 17th 2013

    Rodney this link may be insightful to you. ‘ we are little gods’

    ,http://apprising.org/2012/12/28/joyce-meyer-and-t-d-jakes-teaching-word-faith-little-gods-doctrine/

  27. Wow. I have long been suspicious of “TV preachers”. Most of them I have little use for. It’s always “send me $$ and God will bless you”. If you want God’s blessings ask HIM for them! Read His word and study it. I really believe that we have a watered down gospel, and most of us don’t even know it. Thank you Andrew for being a voice in our vast wilderness. I’m not a fan of rap, but this song sure was right on the money, no pun intended! I don’t think we need to fear the wrath of God for pointing out deception and misleading by some “preachers”. We have to be discerning and NOT be mislead by the wolves.

  28. Interesting quote:
    Excessive aversion to controversy may be an indication that a church has no keen sense of possessing truth which is of any great worth, and that it has lost appreciation for the infinite difference in value between truth and error. – Rev James Stalker

    Stalker, like Henry Drummond, was one of those who shared in the revival movement which followed the Moody and Sankey mission of 1873, and he was, after Drummond, perhaps the most active of the youthful enthusiasts of the time.

  29. The message would have made Ezekiel, Daniel and others take note. We should also heed the message. For too long we have allowed these pirates to go unchecked in the presentation of strange fire to the unsuspecting; and doing all of this claiming to represent God.

  30. Mick 2 Apr 17th 2013

    All should make their calling and election known. If Christ’s, fine; Belial’s, fine. God would have us hot or cold, but manifesting who we really are. We should make clear the fact that I hate and reject this world, the world’s fame, and its filthy lucre. What fellowship does the man of God have with this world, no matter how it presents itself? Our duty is to be one with God to the point that no one shall mistake us for the world. Make this clear… even if you’re the only one. Let the man of sin, sin; but expose him. You are the light of the world, no?

  31. Teshuva Apr 17th 2013

    stephen boyce writes,

    joseph prince teaches the holy spirit does not convict sin.

    Me,
    Interesting comment, as I think Paul said he knew no sin til the law showed him his sin so I would think it was the law that convicts of sin. Romans 7.7 Romans 5:13
    Yet it is Christ who constrains us.
    Hmmmm.

  32. … Some of the 30-minute “TV celebrities” can bring forth drops of spiritual truth by tapping into the river of wisdom flowing through biblical text, thus producing the false image of being a speaker of wisdom when they are actually only skilled mouthpieces. Multitudes of believers susceptible to skillfully constructed image and hypnotized by charisma and oratorical skill, will see them as great religious teachers…

  33. Richard Apr 17th 2013

    Who knows the heart of man? We’re quick to call all these wolves. Should we not fear God at the fall of Nebuchadnezzar? Or should we mock the fallen? If so who will restore? And when God restores will we not be ashamed of our judgments?

    I too hear youth and zeal and not the spirit of God. There is a process of restoration that must be attempted before labeling men apostates. Are these youth wise enough to have followed the order of God or did they jump the gun by publicly shaming the fallen? Does love no longer cover a multitude of sins?
    Have these listed in the song gone out the the reach of Gods arm?

    I for one believe you expose the counterfeit by preaching the truth. If you run around saying counterfeit counterfeit you will be very busy at accomplishing nothing. If we see/look at darkness the whole body is consumed with darkness. If you preach the real truth/light you only focus on one, Jesus, and eliminate the risk of mislabeling a dirty or fallen saint as counterfeit.

    If you want to protect the sheep teach them the truth so that they can easily identify the wolf with out even looking for it. Did Jesus not say my sheep will know my voice and none other will they follow? How did we get caught up in this fear of wolves?

    I almost did not post. Yet my heart breaks and I am bowed down in the fear of God. I weep for the fallen saints and those yet to fall. We must check our hearts because some on this page have put themselves in a place of judgment far greater then the capabilities of man. In doing so we take ourselves out side of the realm of grace and forgiveness and place ourselves in the place of being judged.
    My silence would have had this blood on my hands.
    Let’s check our hearts. Remember the Gospel is a place of forgiveness, healing and restoration.

  34. If our pastors/shepherds had the courage and the scriptural backbone to warn of these false teachers years ago, I would not have had to wade through all the harm that these false teachers did to me as a young very bible illiterate christian. I know first hand how these clouds without rain preachers can destroy young Christians faith in Christ and this young person just exposes the false teachers but also exposes the shame of the leadership of the church for their lack of care and warning of the sheep. The disrespect of the Word of God today within the American churches is breathtaking. The lack of the true gospel of repentance of sin being preached has produced a soft, self serving, lazy bunch demanding that Jesus be their servant instead of Savior and Lord. I am closing in on seventy years of age and 40 of that knowing Jesus and I can tell you from experience that if you challenge any false teaching you will be run out in one subtle way or another. Out of several churches, when I grieved over, prayed over, and finally with a reluctant heart challenged such things as humanist teaching, selfism, rebuking what the bible calls sins of the flesh as demonic possession and seeing young christian’s faith destroyed etc, NOT ONE PASTOR CAME TO ME WITH SCRIPTURE TO SHOW ME HOW I WAS WRONG, instead I was ridiculed, humiliated, called divisive, judgemental and a lot of other things, BUT NOT ONE SCRIPTURE. Gee, why not, I wonder. Jeremiah 23 has plenty to say about IDOL shepherds and I found that to be on the Lord’s side is always costly. It is the pseudo “church” that persecutes the true believer, but the Lord will walk with those who stand. 1 Pet 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified…..AMEN!

  35. Teshuva,

    John 15:7-11:

    7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I [Jesus] am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate [Holy Spirit] will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

  36. Teshuva Apr 17th 2013

    Craig,
    Yes I am pondering these things in my own mind and trying to relate them in my own walk.
    Law convicted me of sin but Christ constrained me, as he was written on my heart, understanding the fact that though I was guilty, it was he that loved me in spite of it and judged me righteous. His righteousness imputed to me and not my own.

  37. Teshuva,

    Not to stray too far from the topic of this particular post, but, Prince is one of those “hyper-grace” preachers, teaching that Christians do not sin. If you really think you no longer sin, I would suggest you pray about that one. The sin nature never leaves us once we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. It’s a constant struggle as Paul points out in Galatians 5:16-25. We can choose to walk in the flesh (sin) at any time rather than be led of the Spirit:

    16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

  38. God’s prosperity message is in 1 Cor. 8 & 9! Funny how a lot of those “prosperity” scriptures come from those two chapters. Wow He takes up two whole chapters in His Word talking about it. It is pretty simple, give to your brother and all men and GOD WILL GIVE SEED TO THE SOWER multiplying the seed and in abundance! No two people will read the same scripture and get the same thing out of it, but the meat of the message is in God’s very own words.

    Giving is done to bring thanksgiving and Glory to God, and coming against that defeats His Purpose! Coming against it keeps people in a poverty mentality and breeds contempt to God’s promises because most people will throw the baby (meat) out with the bath water!

    All I can say is those OT guys are in big trouble, because they were rich! BUT, they received from God because they KNEW how to take care of their own, they took care of those in their family’s that included a whole kingdom for some. God’s Word is truth, they gave and they received from Him!

    1Cor. 9:6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully WILL ALSO REAP BOUNTIFULLY. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 AND GOD IS ABLE to make all grace abound toward you, THAT YOU ,ALWAYS HAVING ALL SUFFICIENCY IN ALL THINGS THAT YOU, ALWAYS HAVING ALL SUFFICIENCY IN ALL THINGS, may HAVE AN ABUNDANCE FOR EVERY GOOD WORK. 9 As it is written:

    “He has dispersed abroad,
    He has given to the poor;
    His righteousness endures forever.”[b]

    10 Now may[c] HE WHO SUPPLIES seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and MULITPLY THE SEED you have sown and INCREASE THE FRUITS OF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS,11 WHILE YOU ARE ENRICHED IN EVERYTHING FOR ALL LIBERALITY, WHICH CAUSES THANKSGIVING THROUGH US TO GOD 12 For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is ABOUNDING THROUGH MANY THANSGIVINGS TO GOD God,13 while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the OBEDIENCE OF YOUR CONFESSION TO THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men,

  39. Israel Apr 17th 2013

    Jesus said he only said what he heard his Father say, and only did what he saw his Father do. If the rappers have seen their Father and heard him say speak rap this truth in this fashion, Amen so be it. But, if they have not, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. We are all maturing in the Christ, but no one was and is without sin but Christ. Therefore, let us all learn to speak the truth in love because no one is in a position to judge anyone because only God knows the heart of man. The tongue is a deadly member, it will set the world on fire with only a flick. Selah

  40. Teshuva Apr 17th 2013

    Craig,
    Agree not to stray from original topic.
    Father does not have me looking at the
    fruit but at the seed for it is the seed that
    reproduces after its own kind to include His.
    For the record, I could not crucify my flesh but
    had to depend on Him to do this. I was not even
    able to love properly until His love come in.
    His love is not a sentimental love but one of choice
    in spite of the circumstances I encounter, of which I have not been perfected yet and so still have a struggle with.

  41. Danny Richardson Apr 17th 2013

    Now it is time to proceed with a rap about Bill Johnson and his gold dust/angel hair ministry. You have a whole list of heretics there. Bob Jones, Bill Hammond, Todd Bentley, John Paul Jackson, the Toronto Airport Mafia, and many others. Let the moral courage flow to expose these people so God can get back to using his Church to preach the Gospel like it was intended from the beginning.

  42. Vicki Lynn Apr 17th 2013

    Look up Joyce Meyer and the others & see what they & their families own. Totally disgusting.

    Would Jesus take money for His own greater wealth?

    America should have no case of poverty, if these ministers of money shared their fortune.

    Can’t handle… RAP… or,,, CHRISTIAN DEATH METAL MUSIC,,, as it is called.
    It sounds…REBELLIOUS… as though they after a … FIST FIGHT…

    But I’m pleased the whole thing has stirred up the church.

  43. steve Tutu Apr 17th 2013

    Am not a fun of this music, as i dont like accusing anyone without substance, just because they have got money. however my attention is drawn to someone defending creflo Dollar. please check on its own website he has his own record label of which he is the CEO and they produce secular music, one of his daughters sings, you can listen to the music and make you own conclusions in the light of the word. Wake up church

  44. I agree with this song and that we have to warn people, and that we can name names like St Paul did, but I have to say that for some reason I couldnt discern any annointing on it. Maybe my discernment wasnt working tho and it this song was instigated by God, or maybe it was a work of man, perhaps as part of an album or by a Christian singer who covers all issues and that it is OK.

    Or maybe in the present atmosphere where false prophets such as Rick Joyner have demomnically predicted a civil war in the church this direct confrontational approach is playing into the devils hands? The defence mechanisms of any of the false teachers named or their ardent supporters are going to be triggered off by a direct approach like this. Maybe a less confrontational style would therefore be more annointed in the present situation. I dont know… we need the annointing on our exposures of false teachers … if its not there?? mmm… apart from that a good song though.

  45. DonaldN Apr 17th 2013

    Those of you who believe Joyce Meyers is not into “prosperity” please check out this link.
    Although she might not preach prosperity like others, she definitely believes in it for herself.
    http://www.trinityfi.org/press/JoyceMeyer6.html

  46. Teshuva,

    To those who believe in Him, Christ imputes His righteousness via the Cross; however, Jesus Christ doe not impute His sinlessness – just like He doesn’t impute His omnipotence, omniscience and omniscience.

    Just like we gain bodily perfection upon receiving our glorified bodies at resurrection, we gain our sinlessness at this same resurrection. These are reserved for the eschaton, the end of all things – not in this lifetime.

  47. …that should have been “omniscience and omnipresence” – obviously I very much lack omniscience…. :)

  48. DonaldN Apr 17th 2013

    Bottom line is this, the people have heaped to themselves teachers that preach what they want to hear. Is it right to speak against them? Jesus did, Paul did. Yes, we should warn people about false prophets and teachers. Will it do any good? If only one listens and turns then it is worth our time to warn them. But we should not dwell on the issue. If we are not offering the truth, then those who would turn don’t know where to turn to. Those who continue to follow these preachers, let them, they are responsible for their choices. God will deal with each of us according to our choices. We must first make sure we have the beam out of our own eyes first.

  49. I’m sensing a lot of fear and confusion in some when it comes to speaking out against false teachers/prophets,etc. One shouldn’t be afraid to speak. We have to remember … these are NOT our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

    It took me a LONG time to get over this fear … the misinterpretation of “Judge not lest ye be judged” had ingrained itself in my brain so deep that I was scared to speak up.

    Many of us spend much of our time analyzing the teaching of these wolves to try and spot heresy. While this may have some value, for the most part, we are looking in the wrong place. The Word says that you will know a wolf by their FRUIT … what they PRODUCE … not what they TEACH.

    False Prophets, Fruit and the Unwitting Wolf

  50. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    I found the content to be spot on. It is anointed IMO.
    There was only one god Yahshua mentioned and that god was mammon (I suggest reading what Paul said also) and it difficult for those with riches to enter the Kingdom (consider the rich young ruler in addition to the apostle Paul. How many rich people are willing to forsake their wealth as Paul did to enter the Kingdom through much tribulation ?)

    The reason Joyce Meyers is mentioned (dont attack the messenger – attack what is stated) is that she is teaching both men and women.
    This is anti-scriptural and not seen in the OT/NT that are written by Jews and Jewish assemblies based in synagoge. Consider the following scriptures:
    1 Tim 2:12
    I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

    Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children Titus 2

    The scriptures do not mention women elders, woman pastors, woman bishops anywhere in the NT nor leadership roles unless it is in a negative regards (ie Jezabel) nor in the Levitical / Zadok priesthood – this cannot be denied.

    The church laity of pastor / congregation is nowhere found in the scriptures and is pagan in principles, inception and practices – this cannot be denied. It resembles nothing of synagoge or the early elect / saints / holy ones.

    Many blessings to the Brothers in Yahshua for speaking the truth.

    Shalom

  51. Well done- there are some crazy responses to this here but the rap is pertinent, honest and much needed… I have seen video footage of African evangelists- taught by American prosperity teachers- with eel skin shoes, telling the poor bare-foot church members to put what little money they have in the pot so God can ‘bless’ them too with money! Sick!
    Thanx for posting Andrew!

  52. Regarding the previous comment about how much money this rapper may have made…I used to work in the Christian music industry and know many Christian artists. Most of them -even on record labels- aren’t even making what the average blue-collar worker makes in America. Here’s a link to this rapper talking about the song, i don’t detect any foolish youthful zeal here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by-JDhaUBGk

  53. OneBody Apr 17th 2013

    Isaac, thankyou for posting the link directly above my post. This artist Shai Linne, seems very sincere and committed to the preservation of the gospel of truth; a godly man given to glorifying God. He isn’t overly critical, other than toward the lies coming from the father of lies; he who deceives all people if he is allowed. It really helps to get a glimpse of this man’s heart as well.

  54. This is a link to this kid explaining why he did this song and he sounds like he is rooted and grounded in the Word. I say he is one of the few who are courageous enough to speak out. He was careful and he does not deserve the unfounded criticisms of people who obviously didn’t check him out. They are the ones who were quick to judge him without checking him out. Check out the link below…..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by-JDhaUBGk&feature=youtu.be

  55. For as many are led by the holy spirit of God they are the children of GOD. Romans 8:14.Appearance Judgement is rebuked by scriptures. Thus my take on this whole saga is if anyone has been led by the holy spirit to expose or compose Rap Garbage for that matter, let them know the same measure of judgement will be exacted upon them.Peter denied Christ three times before dawn, Jesus went ahead and appointed him a lead apostle, can we therefore reason that since Jesus promoted traitors or those with a disowning spirit therefore he is a traitor himself??????. Judge by yourselves.

  56. Robert Apr 17th 2013

    Though I do believe that the man that did the rapping, has a point. A VERY GOOD ONE. TRUTH IN IT and in that , I can applaud the zeal that he has to “caution” others ESPECIALLY because of the time that we are in. Many are falling into deception left and right and so very many are just “playing follow the leader, my friend is doing it and think it is good, so I will go also and praise the Lord”. This all is wonderful and good but when this happens, decernment is tossed out the door.

    I would suggest that each person that listens to this rap song, go and do their own investigative work on these people so we can all know what and why he is saying what he is saying.

    I also do believe in “announcing” who the wolves are, not because you heard it in a song, a rap, or because someone else told you about it, but because you FELT IT in your own spirit, seeked the Lord, Jesus Christ and allowed the Holy Spirit to minister to you about these things so you can understand them better and then through scripture show someone else that has fallen into the traps of these folks.

    I am sure he could not mention all the folks that are involved but this is a good starting.

    I , however, do not believe that he should be making any money from this rap song, — if he is.

    I have been a part of some of these ministries, (before my eyes were truly opened up) also have repented, renounced and got delivered from them and then basically taken into the privacy of my own home to allow the Holy Spirit to search me and to teach me ALL the Lord was wanting me to know about these things.

    I will conclude that because I have been in these ministries that we probably need to pray for this young man, or band or whatever he does, because the attacks on him are going to be tremendous and I do know that these ministries do not back down and that their high paid attorneys will make mince meat out of these young folks that try to bring forth the truth.

    I pray that the young group did not do this out of being hurt or wounded from these people, because if the rap song is done out of revenge, there is no good in it. It is all truth but they have to have the biblical scriptures also and even then these ministries, IF THIS RAP goes so viral that it causes folks to really listen, these minitries will attack the group and it will not be a very pretty site.

    YES, Paul did the same, but he did not receive monies from it nor fame, nor recognition. So, in that, I hope this group knows what they are coming up against. May their hearts be purely focused on the Lord , Jesus Christ and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. NOT ON SELF ,.

  57. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    This Is G_D calling out a Joshua generation to follow Him in righteousness, holiness, and stern obedience.

  58. Jacque Apr 17th 2013

    Those who are condemning this as youthful zeal need to read Timothy 4:12. I see this as youthful courage.

  59. Victor in Liberty Missouri Apr 17th 2013

    People are quick to attack people who say anything against prosperous living, but seem to forget all of the teaching Jesus gave against prosperous living. In Luke 6:24-34, Jesus says “woe unto you that are rich.” In Matt 19:24, Jesus says it is easier for a camel to squeeze through the small doorway in the city wall than for a rich man to enter Heaven. Philippians 3:18-19 warns, ” For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.” They are enemies of the cross, which Jesus told us to carry daily. Rather, these people live to please themselves. Their god is their belly, their glory is their shame, and their attention is on the things of this world.

    I know many will say I am causing division in the Church, but I say you do not know the true Bride of Christ then. I am not promoting divisions as in denominations. Rather, I promote what Jesus promoted, division from the world and division from the wisdom of this world. Jesus did cause division there, and so do I.

    You have to ask yourself, in light of the scriptures above, if these prosperity preachers are trying to prove Jesus wrong, or if they think they are more clever than Jesus by avoiding His warning. Jesus isn’t warning us go avoid money, but rather avoid a lifestyle where you gain the most advantage of being rich. The Bible says love is to lay down your life for others, just as Jesus first showed his love for us by laying down his life for us all. Riches are the way to continue in selfism, whereas a crucified walk does not continue to gain, but give.

  60. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    Jacque – is spot on.
    This a full frontal attack of the lies, deception, false teachings, immorality, greed, and Balamism in the mainstream Body of Christ that the adults refused to address.
    It is scripturally spot on and the message is toward the youth seeking truth.
    Those that have ears to hear and/or are Calebs – this will register in their spirit.

    Shalom

  61. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    @Robert “that their high paid attorneys will make mince meat out of these young folks that try to bring forth the truth.”
    I dont think so…..
    1. They had better think twice. No one wins in fighting G_D. No one. Btw, great idea to bring a judgement resulting in wrath of G_D on one self and a ministry (ie Ichabod)
    2. Shame on them if they do. G_Ds court supercedest that of mans court – righteousness ALWAYS prevails and it will further strengthen their message.

    Allow me to suggest – those mentioned have been given a pre emptive strike warning (ie shooting over the bow of a warship before engaging).
    G_D has been very very gracious and given them a tuneful rebuke to repentance.
    It would appear Francis Chan got this message awhile back and responded correctly.
    I pray those given this message will do likewise.

    Shalom

  62. WOW!! Very powerful, y’all! Preach it bros!!

    The purpose of the song isn’t to warn the false teachers, it is to warn the flock that is being fleeced by them. Who says these boys haven’t weeped and prayed already! Seems to me like they have!
    WATCHFUL………………listen to the first part again.
    they have wept for them………..
    also remember what paul told them in corinthians
    about the one who had his fathers wife, and then later,
    he says i said this not to him who did the sin
    IT WAS FOR THE CHURCHS GOOD to warn THEM.
    Something i think we all NEED PONDER very serious.
    WHAT are we DOING to warn others about this evil.
    SO why attack THOSE WHO ARE DOING SOMETHING.
    it probably wouldnt be the way i would.
    BUT, BUT AT LEAST THEY DOING SOMETHING.
    backseat christains can always criticise, and i dont say this
    to condmen any of us,
    i say TAKE THE WHEEL and warn…………….
    Get up and do something , REDEEM the TIME cause the days be evil. WARN the pepoles, but do something.
    amen.

  63. Remember,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i did this not for his cause who had wronged, nor for the one who was wronged
    BUT FOR THE CHURCHES sake…………………….
    We gotta stop criticising the ones trying to do something about the evil. we have too.
    Yes, i do say its not how i would necessarily do it
    however………….i believe some may be reached by this song.
    I see very few in the streets…………….and it seems
    every time one is warning……………….someone is always nit picking
    every lil thing they do. The only ones who have the RIGHT to nit pick…………………..are the ONES DOING SOMETHING
    about the evil. IF one does nothing………………then remain silent
    and pray for those who are doing something.
    IF we want to pray
    also pray that these men warning, DO IT ALWAYS FROM A PURE HEART IN LOVE. pray that.
    but nitpick not. amen.

  64. Sweet song! Thanks for posting it Andrew.

    Are there really false teachers and false prophets in the Christian church today?

    These doctrines of Jesus, which are written in the Holy Bible, have the true answer!

    2Peter 2:1 … there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

    Philippians 3:18-19 …they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

    Acts 20:30 …men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

    2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.

    Jeremiah 9:3 “ … they have bent their tongues for lies. They are not valiant for the truth on the earth. For they proceed ` from evil to evil, And they do not know Me,” says the LORD.

    1 John 4:5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.

    These are…

    1Timothy 6:5 …men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

    These…

    Matthew 24:24-25 …false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    Titus 1:11 …there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

    Romans 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

    Ezekiel 13:3 Thus says the Lord GOD: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!

    Jude 1:11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

    Jude 1:16-18 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.

    Proverbs 21:6 Getting treasures by a lying tongue Is the fleeting fantasy of those who seek death.

    Jeremiah 5:26-28 ‘ For among My people are found wicked men; They lie in wait as one who sets snares; They set a trap; They catch men. As a cage is full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit. Therefore they have become great and grown rich. They have grown fat, they are sleek; Yes, they surpass the deeds of the wicked; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the fatherless; Yet they prosper, And the right of the needy they do not defend.

    Ezekiel 22:13 “Behold, therefore, I beat My fists at the dishonest profit which you have made, and at the bloodshed which has been in your midst.

    Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule by their own power; And My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end?

  65. Eph 5:11 – Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
    Thank you Andrew. God certainly used you to help me understand where I was for 25 years of my life.

  66. KATHY BROUGHT A GOOD WORD……………..
    EXPOSE THEM……………..
    WHY do we think paul told them
    i am free of the blood of all men
    for i have not shunned to warn men………….
    that comes from jeremiah………..
    We have been raised in an era
    where to speak out or warn……………seems ungodly and jugmental. THIS IS a false mentality
    WHY do we think in two places
    paul used the word GRAVE also to describe how bishops, deacons etc SHOULD BE.
    we are living in sensual days………………many have NOT the spirit,
    yet can speak some truth. TIS minsitirs of darkness
    shewing themselves to be of THE LIGHT
    but MARVEL NOT………………..satan can appear as a ministir
    of righteuosness…………so too can his ministirs.
    I have went back and back again on this song
    and its ALL TRUTH.
    and they are having nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but are REPROVING them before all .
    SO THAT those who are still unlearned, and others
    may STEER clear of these wolves.
    i believe the only reason more names were not on that list
    is HOW CAN ONE TRULY LIST ALL the FALSE MINISTIRS
    it would take ten records of just name listing alone.
    WARN lambs…………………….warn any and all
    to REPENT and COME TO CHRIST
    and REMIND all believers to ENDURE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST,
    keeping with SOUND DOCTRINE, the fruits of the spirit,
    all of which there is NO LAW AGAINST
    arise lambs……………………and LOVE THE LORD THY GOD
    with the WHOLE of the HEART. not the part of the heart
    which suits certain lifestlyes while condemning others.
    BUT THE WHOLE OF the RIGHTLY DIVIDED WORD
    take comfort in CHRIST, and in the HOLY SCRIPS.
    the falling away is MASSIVE NOW, and its EVERYWHERE NOW.
    amen.

  67. NOW GO take a read of what JONATHAN ISRAEL WROTE
    that is POUNDS of scrips…………
    tis also why paul says…………………..set your affections above
    here on earth.
    JOHN and JAMES speak of friendship with the world.
    THE EARLY CHURCH KNEW GOOD WHOLESOME TRUTH.
    WE can TOO………………
    turn of the babylonian network(tbn) and many false ministirs
    of the internet, and pews, and govts, and nationalism pride
    OF all which is of the world…………
    mans kingdom is of the world………………….OURS is NOT.
    anything tied to this world, its goals and ambitions is NOT of GOD
    but is OF THE WORLD.
    FLEE from babylon…………………..and ye shall find peace
    in the wilderness………………COME OUT OF HER
    that ye recieve NOT OF HER PLAGUES
    a mans heart set on govt, nationalism is also OF THIS WORLD.
    and a mans heart who trusts in any carnal weapon, who picks up any carnal weapon, is NOT OF GOD, but of THIS KINGDOM.
    IF JESUS KINGDOM had been of the WORLD
    then HIS SERVANTS WOULD HAVE FOUGHT ………
    THIS HE TOLD PILATE.
    YALL many are going to end up in the LAKE OF FIRE
    because they did NOT HEED the WORDS of CHRIST.
    WE MUST be made WISE unto our salvation
    WE must put down all other things and GET OUR TRUTH
    from the BIBLE. these are the LAST DAYS
    and PERILOUS times lie ahead…………..
    and i shall NOT SHUN to warn. amen.
    REPENT YE AND BELIEVE THE GOSPLE.
    REPENT means repent……………BELIEVE THE GOSPLE means believe the gosple. amen.

  68. Alexandria Apr 17th 2013

    Thank Jesus for this song. It’s about time someone grew a spine and decided to discuss the deception in the church. I am so sick and tired of people not speaking the truth because they’re too afraid they may offend someone. Believe it or not but the gospel IS an offensive book to those who disagree with what it says. I see absolutely nothing wrong with naming the names of the false prophets. I used to attend TD Jakes church in Denver and it was a hot mess. Those preachers (and I use that term loosely) preach to carnal lukewarm believers who couldn’t care less about hearing truth. I left because I prayed for 8 months for the Lord to reveal to me who He truly is and to place me in a biblical church. Through prayer and fasting off and on for those 8 months, my eyes were opened and I was placed into a better church.

    Here’s a verse for thought: “2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”

  69. something very sad and tragic……….
    while the agendas of this world are fast gaining ground
    all over and in churches……
    while abortions, gay agenda, and others
    are believing they are walking in victory and winning
    Though they are gaining ground fast
    and to the world and unwise appear to be winning the agenda.
    simply they are LOSING…………..
    because the agenda should have been ETERNAL LIFE, the PRIZE. its not how it is here, its where one ENDS UP FOR ETERNITY. that is what TRUE LOVE IS ALL ABOUT.
    where does one spend ETERNITY. THAT is what TRUE LOVE IS ALL ABOUT. not cares and pleasures in life
    not money, nothing else.
    the second commandment………….LOVE THY NEIGHBOR
    well this LOVE should be about WHERE this one will end up.
    NOT if his goal or ambitions in this life are met.
    WHAT we are witnessing is what has happened over time.
    FIRST……………..the church became NOT CONTENT with the TRUE MANA< thte TRUE BREAD
    then came the PROSPERITYGOSPLE
    now we are seeing the fruits of the prosperity gosple
    in the acceptance of every lifestlye
    and in the acceptance of the new age religion of all paths lead.
    THIS is the FRUIT of the leaven of the churches.
    FOR MEN have shut down warning and purging out the leaven
    and now it waxes higher and higher.
    SO leave these men be. LET THEM warn.
    PRAY they do it from a pure heart. and pray they continue in CHRIST amen.

  70. This website seems to have its focus on everything except extending the Kingdom of God, the main focus seems to be what Christians or ministries should we peg to the fence. It attracts like minded people all seeming as though they are after blood!. If our focus was on extending the kingdom I think the world would be a much greater place today. God forbid I ever have a different opinion to anyone else, I might also get pinned to the fence and thrown stones at.

  71. fabakary Apr 17th 2013

    Randall lowry , be careful when speaking about personalities , ministries or whatsoever you call it , do not be rash to say so and so is a minister of satan , have proof, hear it from God who knows the heart. Do not risk anything , make sure you have the proof from God if not it will be risky to do so.
    “And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.luke3v14

  72. Robert Apr 17th 2013

    this is excellent. Kenneth Hagin Sr. rebuked most of these people and more about 5 years before he died. Although i dont’ agree with all his doctrine by any means, at least he saw how ridiculous all this stuff was getting. These preachers settled down but once Hagin died, they won’t full force and got even worse. I believe his book The Midas Touch was a rebuke also.

    What’s amazing is how they continue to preach this stuff while the world is falling apart. If they really believed what they preached,they should speak people into the kingdom of God but then again that would be manipulation and usurping authority over someone’s will. Oh yeah. That’s called witchcraft. Why don’t we call it what it is?

    When Paul Crouch came against Dr. Walter Martin about 30 years ago and never repented, TBN continued to go down the path of apostasy.

    Do these preachers teach salvation by atonement? Yes. But they are still giving people another Jesus that they promise will give you your better life now and that is not scriptural. Who wouldn’t receive a jesus that was a Sugar Daddy?

  73. Lorraine Apr 17th 2013

    THAT is going on my Facebook page. Non Christians can see this and wonder why we don’t say anything. Just cos He calls us sheep doesn’t mean we are to be blind, deaf and dumb. Thanks Andrew!

  74. That. Was. Awesome. Thank you!

  75. P.S. Here are some thoughts on the issue of “judging” in the church.

    Those who love the sheep most will be fiercest with the wolves.

    http://bethcavete.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/question-9-who-are-you-to-judge/

  76. This song would never be allowed to be played on Gods throne. This is not Christian music. It is worldly music coming in the name of Jesus. Yes, they are pointing out the prosperity preachers, but any real Christian will know who these people are already. We are supposed to expose evil in our world, but to me this is no different than a 5 year old kid in a whinney voice telling on his brother. There are other ways to expose evil in the world and in the church.
    This is not one of them. I think the song is crap.

  77. Bill,

    Could you explain Biblically the difference between “Christian music” and “worldly music”?

  78. All I’m saying is its one thing to warn the flock its another thing to use worldly rap music to belittle fallen individuals.

    James 3:9-11

    9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

    10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

    11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

    So most here are saying its okay to curse these men?

    GaryB

  79. Gary B,

    Could answer the same question I posed to Bill above? That is, using Scripture can you define the difference between “Christian music” and “worldly music”?

  80. chas351 Apr 17th 2013

    how can these so called false preachers call on the Name of Jesus & by the Power of the Holy Spirit pray and receive healing miracles?

    I think its dangerous ground to accuse these men as false when they CLAIM the above.

    Matthew 12:31
    Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

    Luke 6:37
    “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not …

    “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. … “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. …

    Jesus said Luke 12:8 “I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before …

    … “I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of
    Man will also acknowledge before God’s angels. …

    and these men do this … dont they?

    Matthew 12:30
    Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

    these preachers are NOT against Jesus or His Word, they are MEN like us and have the same temptations and trials that we all endure and go through.

    The Word is preached and people are getting saved.
    Signs Wonders & Miracles follow and they say they do it in the Name of Jesus.

    SAVED by the BLOOD of Yeshua.

  81. Craig

    My personal opinion is that Christian music is worship to and about the living God. It brings you into the presence of God.

    Worldly music is when Christians take the music of the world and try to make it Christian, like Rock, country, rap, etc. It is more fleshly and ministers to peoples flesh.

    At work they play a secular rock station, which is very vulgar and worldly. I constantly try to avoid listening to it. They spend a lot of time on this station making fun of Christian Rock, and anything to do with Christians. They think Christians want to be like them.

    GaryB

  82. chas351

    Some of these men are saved they have stray onto the wrong path.

    GaryB

  83. Andrew Apr 17th 2013

    Rap singers like Shai Linne (above) and Timothy Brindle put out some of the most biblical, uncompromising and high-quality Christian music on earth today.

    Just because it is “Rap” does not make it ungodly.

    In fact, it is ‘SPOKEN WORD’. -The best format for PREACHING to many in this generation.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  84. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    Some scriptures come come to mind. Specifically when Paul accused Peter to face for being a hypocrite in Gal.
    What about 1 Cor 5 But in this letter I tell you not to associate with any professing Christian who is known to be an impure man or a swindler, an idolater, a man with a foul tongue, a drunkard or a thief. My instruction is: “Don’t even eat with such a man.” Those outside the church it is not my business to judge. but surely it is your business to judge those who are inside the church—God alone can judge those who are outside. It is your plain duty to ‘put away from yourselves that wicked person’.

    Btw, for those who dont care for “rap” chances are you might not have cared for Pauls preaching either much like the Corinthians ” his personality and bodily presence are weak, and his speech and delivery are utterly contemptible”

    Shalom

  85. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    As Andrew pointed out – the content was spot on and the context is to reach the young of this generation.

    G_D has a awesome sense of humor- out of the mouth of babes pours forth wisdom. I sincerely believe this is a “love song ‘ for the Joshua/Caleb generation to draw close to Yahshua as well as the current generation to repent (much like Chan).
    Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent ~Rev 3:19
    If those larger ministries do not repent and give the glory to G_D. He judges those closet to Him.

    Shalom

  86. I don’t know what it is but if someone has a little different opinion on a matter they are railed upon and attacked with accusations that are not true.

    I probably would appreciate Paul or anyone else in the Bible.

    The Bible says “Love thinketh no evil”, but it seems to me most can think evil anytime they want and use the scripture to justify their view and belittle a brother who has a different opinion.

    1 Corinthians 10:11-12
    11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

    12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

    I don’t mean any harm in what I shared but the fact is putting down ministers seems crass to say the least.

    GaryB

  87. One more thing:

    Did we not have a conversation about using entertainment to reach the youth of this world. The reason we use entertainment is because the power in not present as in the days of old.

    What you win them with is what you will keep them with.

    GaryB

  88. larry beck Apr 17th 2013

    its all about the love walk, dont let anything else get in your way the prosperity teaching is not the only false teaching out there there are many, but the HOLY SPIRIT will lead and guide you into ALL THE TRUTH.

    Might want to get to no Him and move on from all the rest of the nonsense.

    He moved me out of all that mess some 20 years ago and I never looked back and am in some ways amazed that it is still going on, but new folks all the time who haven’t yet learned the truth.

    I love all the ones mentioned as it is just an immaturity issue and am believing they will grow beyond it one day.

  89. chas351 Apr 17th 2013

    We the Gentiles are under the Blessing of Abraham
    Galatians 3:9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with …
    … So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing
    Abraham received because of his faith.

    Acts 3:5
    And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham,
    ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’

    The Bible says to “owe no man anything” eg. a Mortgage is a curse NOT a Blessing

    What does BLESSING mean?

    Dt 28:13
    The LORD will make you the head, not the tail.

    Dt 28:12
    The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your
    land in season and to bless all the work of your hands.
    You will LEND to many nations but will borrow from none.

    We own money but money does not own us
    We have stuff but stuff does not own us
    We love God first, not stuff
    The object of the Christian is not to seek money, but to seek God
    Solomon did this and what happened? Most Riches ever any one had
    Job did this and what happened? Multiplied prosperity in the end
    Moses did this and what happened? Riches of Egypt

    Those that oppose Prosperity oppose God’s Word and seek to justify their Poverty> which is SIN.
    We are to Pray Heaven on Earth Daily: there is NO lack or Sickness or Poverty in Heaven

    It takes MONEY to print Bibles, to send people across nations to preach.
    It takes MONEY to feed the poor, house the orphan & provide clothes.
    It takes MONEY to put programmes on the Internet & TV.

    Why would someone look at the word “MONEY” and see it as some Evil Thing?
    Because their heart is full of Greed, Envy and Covetousness
    Money is neither good nor bad, but what comes from the heart

    The more MONEY Christians have, the MORE GOOD WORKS they can do
    Deuteronomy 15:6 For the LORD your God will bless you as he has …
    … very many nations, and no one shall have dominion over … lend to many nations, but
    you shall not borrow; and you … over many nations, and over thee they do not rule …

    Our GOD is a God of ABUNDANCE

    Matthew 13:12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have …
    ….. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance.

    Galatians 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to …
    … so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles,
    so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. …

    1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not …
    … acknowledge this about Jesus. Such is the spirit of the anti-Christ; of whose
    coming you have heard, and it is already in the world. …

    YES its TRUE that many preachers mix truth with error,
    BUT to write them off as FALSE when they DO NOT DENY Jesus as Lord is dangerous ground because
    that is to Judge them Eternally

    Rm 10:6
    “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down),or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation

    IF they are confessing Jesus [Yeshua] leave them alone,.. (ie. do not condemn the person)

    BUT 2Tim 2:15

    rightly dividing the word of truth. …

  90. chas351 Apr 17th 2013

    GaryB

    true

    and RAP is COOL too!:-)

  91. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    “The more MONEY Christians have, the MORE GOOD WORKS they can do”
    That is true but when was the last time you heard of these large organizations giving to the widows, orphans, and poor as commanded in the NT. It is very very difficult for the rich to enter the Kingdom and mammon was the only god Yahshua talked about.
    Wealth in itself is not evil – the love of it is and the pursuit of it can easily be a distraction and keep one out of the Kingdom.
    Yahshua and the apostles turned the entire Roman empire upside down. The apostles collecting money for the poor in Jerusalem – this cannot be denied.
    The endtime witness will be clothed in “sackcloth” – this cannot be denied.

    As Andrew mentioned – “In fact, it is ‘SPOKEN WORD’. -The best format for PREACHING to many in this generation.”

    Shalom

  92. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    Regarding wealth and retirement/401ks/IRA/Stocks/Bonds – take a really really hard look and see what Yahshua had to say about “wealth / retirement” in Luke 12:33-34

    Shalom

  93. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    opps typo Luke 12:13-34

  94. Teshuva Apr 17th 2013

    God gives the task of gathering the wealth of the unrighteous to give to the righteous, according to scripture.Pro.13:22
    Ecclesiastes 2:26 KJV
    For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up , that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit.
    And it was Judas who was in charge of the treasury of Yeshua.
    Though one can continue supplying things to the poor and widow and orphan, it would seem more wise to show them how to do a trade or farm etc, that they may have more instead of continually trying to supply their needs.

  95. Jesus also said to the Apostles:

    Mark10:29 So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s,
    30 who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

    GaryB

  96. That was a creative way to introduce the topic Andrew!

    In 1 John 4:1 it says:
    “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world”
    We are commanded to test the spirits.

    The word Judging means to distinguish ‘truth from falsehood’.
    Some Bible verses re judging:
    •”The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.” (Psa 37:30)
    •”With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.” (Psa 119:13)
    •”Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.” (Prov 31:9)
    •Jesus commended Simon, “Thou hast rightly judged.” (Luke 7:43)
    •”Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations.” (Ezek 22:2)
    •”But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” (1 Cor 2:15)
    •”Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?” (1 Cor 6:2)
    •”Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” (1 Cor 6:3)

    There are many other passages and verses in the Bible about judging. While God is our ultimate Judge of all things, He has also commanded us to judge according to the Word of God.
    The key is “Judging against the Word of God”.
    We do not judge the person per say, but we judge whether what they say, write or do, stacks up against Scripture.

    The Matthew 7:1-5 scriptures about judgment refer to not judging others, because we should not judge others if we are guilty of the same things. We must first clean up our own lives through repentance and faith, then we are qualified to judge others.

    However, this is different to the Biblical commands to judge all things against Scripture. When you go to discernment type websites, their articles always judge the ‘doings’ of the specific false teacher or false prophet in the Light of Scripture’ not the person. This judging is Biblical, that is to judge against Scripture.
    Also these discernment ministries always “go to” the man or woman who is in error against the Holy Scritpures and offer them a chance to repent. That is also scriptural to do -to go to your brother in error against the Word of God.

    That is why it is so important to have the Word of God ‘under our belt’ with daily Bible reading, because we know that satan will try to “even fool the very elect if that were possible”.

    Knowledge of the word of God in its entirety plus the gift of discerning of spirits (ask God for it) is a must in these end times.

    God bless – good discussions generally and we all learn from each other -body ministry online -Amen!

  97. antipas4yahshua Apr 17th 2013

    @Teshuva – I suggest reading about Corneilus and why G_D instructed him to call for Peter and then proceeded to dump the Holy Spirit on his household.
    G_D is the richest Jew in the universe.
    HE pays for what HE orders
    HE doesn’t need our money.
    HE will pour out blessings on those who work righteousness, keep themselves holy, and are obedient – “But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you”
    Those who have a ministry of giving should give as instructed in the scriptures & Holy Spirit so they can be rich toward G_D.
    Shalom

  98. Teshuva Apr 17th 2013

    Thank you Antipas4Yahshua,
    However I am learning to just rest and allow Him to do His righteousness through me, for it is no longer I who live but Christ in me. I don’t do the work, He does.
    Scripture says that I am seated with Christ in heavenly places. Where is Christ seated??? At the right hand of the Father. The secret place of the Most High, and the hand with which He dispenses blessings. The hand of grace/favor. The hand that has awareness of the love of the Father to the Son and the love of the Son to the Father.

  99. Money Makers in God’s Temple/Prosperity Preachers

    The Early Church is our model in 2 Corinthians 8:14:
    “But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality” KJV

    On observation prosperity preachers do tend to live lavish lifestyles with fancy cars, large houses, planes and expensive clothes. Jesus did not do this. He did not even carry a penny on him (Matt 22:19). He had no place to live. “Jesus replied, ‘Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.’” (Luke 9:58). You can imagine the types of clothes He walked around in. Scripture says about our Lord that there was nothing in his physical appearance to attract people to Him. “He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him,” Isa 53:2.

    However the PP’s will tell you that their money came from the sales of their books, DVDs and online resources, and this may well be true.

    But the question I often ask –Should we actually charge what God has given us freely? The word says “Freely you have received freely give”. Christ did not charge us for his revelations or the gift of salvation!

    I appreciate that books and other resources do cost money to produce and even Bibles are expensive to produce and deliver around the world to far flung believers in tribal villages. But in all things we should perhaps trust God to supernaturally provide via His way and through whom He chooses. I have come across true Biblical ministries and people, who never charge for any resources they feel led to produce. They trust God for the provision and God even uses the unrighteous mammon to finance this at times.

    Even the greatest of all time, the Apostle Paul, took up tent making in between journeys to supplement his income. I doubt whether he charged for his sermons or letters to the churches, but the brethren did supply his basic needs when it was necessary, but for the furthering of the Gospel. I am sure he did not stand at the front on a box and pass round the pottery plate for money, or create online websites demanding money.

    Even tithing is not a doctrine, but the Roman style church we see all around us today has made it a doctrine and brow beats the people through it.

    The Holy Spirit is well able to prompt any one of us to give to a certain ministry or project development in a 3rd world nation, or whatever. If God has ordained something, He will certainly watch over it and provide for its needs all the way to completion. I have seen this to be so.

    God will judge our current day “Money Makers in the Temple”. It may not be ‘the simple turning over of a few tables’ as in the past, but there will be some overturning in their lives ahead, that is certain”.

    Let us all simply ask the Holy Spirit, where to put our giving to God’s work on a week by week basis. It may be for missions to Africa, it may be for a needy neighbour in our street, it may be for orphans in 3rd world nations, it may be for Bible distribution –but the author of our giving, for the direction and recipient of our giving, should be from the Holy Spirit.

  100. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @Teshuva – you are welcome. And you are correct and and you know every disciple of Yahshua “daily” denies themselve, picks up their cross, and follows Him ( His burden is light and His yoke is easy right ?) Just remember what you wrote and HEB 12:
    “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons.

    Your Brother / Friend/ Advocate is right there – every step of the way…

    Shalom

  101. I can’t understand the words. Can someone put the lyrics on here? I just don’t understand rap music, not that it’s bad, just can’t make out the words. LOL

  102. goodwordtoday Apr 18th 2013

    This is a direct cut and paste from Joyce Meyer website regarding the “prosperity gospel.”

    Does Joyce Meyer Ministries teach a “prosperity gospel”?
    Joyce Meyer Ministries believes that God desires to bless His people. Joyce teaches that God’s blessings and prosperity apply to the spiritual, emotional, physical and financial areas of life. These blessings and prosperity are then to be used to bless others (see Genesis 12:2). A “prosperity gospel” that solely equates blessing with financial gain is out of balance and could damage a person’s walk with God.

  103. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    Here is a video w/Chan, Driscoll, and Harris. Imo, Driscoll is lambasting Chan for making other preachers with large ministries look bad for leaving it all. C
    han response, resolve and his ministry / outreach is worth comparing to other large ministries.

    http://player.vimeo.com/video/13678508

    Shalom

  104. OneBody Apr 18th 2013

    Jane, I believe this is the lyrics to “False Teachers” by Shai Linne

    [Intro]
    Special dedication to my brothers and sisters on the great continent of Africa
    To Saints to Malawi, Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe.
    Don’t be deceived by what America is sending y’all man

    [Verse]
    Let me begin, while there is still ink left in my pen,
    I am set to contend for Truth you can bet will offend,
    Deception within the church man, who’s letting them in?
    We talked about this years ago, let’s address it again (Yeh)
    And I ain’t really trying to start beef
    But some who claim to be part of His sheep got some sharp teeth (they’re wolves)
    You cast at me when you criticize them when you criticize them
    But Jesus told us: Matthew 7:16, we can recognize them!
    And God forbid that for the love of some fans
    I keep quiet and watch them die with their blood on my hands!
    So, there’s nothing left for me to do except to speak to you
    In the spirit of Jude 3 and 2nd Peter 2
    And I know that some would label me a Pharisee
    Because today the only heresy is saying that there’s heresy:
    “How dare they be specific and drop some clarity
    On the popularity of the gospel of Prosperity”
    Turn off TBN, that channel is overrated
    The pastors speak bogus statements, financially motivated
    It’s kind of like a pyramid scheme
    Visualize Heretics christianizing the American dream
    It’s foul and deceitful, they’re lying to people
    Teaching that camels squeeze through the eye of a needle!
    Ungodly and wicked, ask yourself how can they not be convicted
    Treating Jesus like a lottery ticket
    And you’re thinking they’re not the dangerous type
    Because some of their statements are right
    That only proves that Satan comes as an angel of light
    This teaching can’t be believed without a cost
    The lie is you can achieve a crown without a cross
    And I hear it all the time when they speak on the block
    Even unbelievers are shocked how they’re fleecing the flock
    It should be obvious then, yet I’ll explain why it’s in
    Peep the Bible, it’s in 1 Timothy 6:9-10
    It talks about how the desire for riches
    Has left many souls on fire and stitches, mired in ditches
    Tell me, who would teach you to pursue as a goal
    The very thing that the Bible said will ruin your soul, huh?
    Yet they’re encouraging the love of money,
    To make it worse, they’ve exported this garbage into other countries!
    My heart breaks even now as I’m rhyming
    You wanna know what all false teachers have in common? (what?)
    It’s called selfism the fastest growing religion
    They just dress it up and call it “Christian”.
    Don’t be deceived by this funny biz
    If you come to Jesus for money, then he’s not your God, money is!
    Jesus is not a means to an end
    The Gospel is He came to redeem us from sin
    And that is the message forever I yell
    If you’re living your best life now you’re heading for hell!

    (Talk to them)
    Joel Osteen – false teacher!
    (Let them know)
    Creflo Dollar is a false teacher!
    (Who else? Who else?)
    Benny Hinn is a false teacher!
    I know they’re popular but don’t let them deceive ya!
    (Talk to them)
    TD Jakes is a false teacher!
    (Tell the Truth)
    Joyce Meyer is a false teacher!
    (Let them know)
    Paula White is a false teacher!
    Use your discernment, let the Bible lead ya!
    (Keep going)
    Fred Price is a false teacher!
    (Tell the Truth)
    Kenneth Copland is a false teacher!
    (Who else? Who else?)
    Robert Tilton is a false teacher!
    I know they’re popular but don’t let them deceive ya!
    (Talk to them)
    Eddie Long is a false teacher!
    (Let them know)
    Juanita Bynum is a false teacher!
    (Who else? Who else?)
    Paul Crouch is a false teacher!
    Use your discernment, let the Bible lead ya!

    “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” 2 Peter 2:1-3

    http://rapgenius.com/Shai-linne-fal-e-teacher-lyrics#lyric

  105. margaret Apr 18th 2013

    When I was a youth a new christian in the 70’s , there was a lot of put down of the youth generaton in my neck of the woods….leaders who had no idea how to communicate with my generation…..I was told not to speak against God’s anointed or terrible things would happen to me; So I repented and started to move on in that church though many spoke against me ( I am also God’s anointed..that iswhat it means to be Christian..Christ one “Anointed One”)….the gifts of God are irrevocable…people can be anointed and still have unrenewed souls…and we all need to change and carry our cross daily, which means walking in forgiveness and repentance DAILY…..My daughter said this song came out a long time ago so we are just catching up…maybe some of us just are not willing to go to the cross and stand up for righteousness to protect the weak…..there is a lot of mixture with antichrist within the church , starting from Rome …WE ALL NEED TO BE RENEWED DAILY AND REPENT that is my understanding of ‘carry your cross daily’ . The role of the modern day prophet is to speak out and lay the axe to the root of evil, then to build up and encourage righteousness. A whole generation is being led to slaughter in our school systems , taken over by unrighteous antichrist belief systems. Let us rejoice with t them in thier youth and bless them for the courage to stand against wrong teaching,and forgive them when they revile and offend us because we are the elders who should be humble and submissive to the TRUTH….we all either worship God or Mamon……ALL have sinned and fall short of the Gllory of God….

  106. Robert Apr 18th 2013

    Like I said earlier, having been in several of these mega ministries under these false people, I have seen first hand the exact same thing Hinn is doing and saying in this article.
    Matter of fact, he would come on stage, after what is really considered “contempative prayer/song” by repeating words over and over and over again and get the whole audience worked up into a kinda hypnotic trance. (what I am saying is , when the music is going on and on and on and you are told to repeat the same thing over and over and over again, (like a mantra) it will put you into a state plus many folks would start seeing visions. Hinn, would then say, Jesus is walking the aisles. (this was all part of the performance)

    As he would do this, he then would talk about how “holy the moment is” that we have broken through the outer court, past the mid court and now we are in the holy of holies and that the Lord Jesus was right there w/ us touching us, healing us and giving us what we have asked for.— JUST ASK , HE WILL GIVE YOU and then he quoted several scriptures that would correspond w/ asking.

    AFTER THAT, people were willing to do just about anything INCLUDING GIVING.

    With in 15 min after all had “experienced this ” he would then tell everyone to sit down and watch a film. The video was always about 3rd world countries and the poverty and the only hope these folks had was for us, (at this conference/healing service) -3 night extravaganza
    to GIVE so he could take his jet and his “teams” and bodyguards etc.etc.etc. (that included all his books etc.) and give healing services to these folks and it ;would cost roughly a million dollars for them to travel there.

    The money that left the hands and pockets were more than a million dollars. ———- you times that by two more nights and I am telling you , he had several million.

    How I know that, —–we saw the money people were putting in. He called the “10,000 dollar and above donors to the front first. And there were so many that the lines were extremely long, Then came the $5,000, 3,000 , 2,000 , 1,000 then the less than 1,000. Buckets were over flowing.

    All these folks do this. I have been to Joyce Meyers’ and the same thing is done, just not as obvious. Plus she doesn’t travel overseas EVERY WEEKEND.

    Marilyn Hicky and her daughter do the same thing. Oral Roberts did the same thing . Matter of fact, Oral and Hinn were tight buddies , so is Reinhart Bonkie and others.

    So, when you read this, know that all HINN is doing is scamming the people. And people want healing , deliverance, they want to be able to pay their bills,— but they are looking to man in a VERY expensive suit that tells them that Jesus is right here and the Holy SPirit is ministering to them and they believe they are receiving healing ——until the healing disappates. (and folks, I won’t say ALL healings do,— but what I will say is ,– there is no real doctor there that checks them out.- The doctor is Hinn’s personal and on the board of directors-

    I watched many folks not get healed but the saddest of them were ones that got some sort of a healing and then lost it before the complete weekend was over.—- and back up they were again on the stage ——–IF THEY could make it past the bodyguards and the ones that checked you out / asked you questions. —- Often times they would not allow you for a repeated “healing”. – they were told you have to practice your faith.

    We have all sorts of deceptive streams going right now. From Bill Johnson and Heidi Baker to Rick Warren, to Cindy Jacobs to Peter Wagnor to Bill Hybels, to Mark Driscoll to Rob Bell to Tim Keller and Neil Cole and so many others. We must stay in the word and ASK FOR WISDOM and DISCERNMENT and also check and recheck on these folks and learn who they are and what trueths or lies they are telling and what they’re sales pitch is.

    Often times, one truly is there because they here something of truth. These folks all have it down pat, They mix Truth w/ other things and the way I had to learn, was I had to take the cd from the conference/sermon and then beside it , I had to search the scriptures or find what the REAL scripture read. In that , I was able to go unto the Lord and truly ask HIM to open my eyes to all deceit. I repented, I renounced and I left all behind, as the Lord, brought me out of it.

    There is no magic potion or even a schedule of how to do this. Keep your trust in the Lord, not on man. Seeking the Lord and asking for HIS WISDOM .

    Here is the article below.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Traveling evangelist Benny Hinn’s most recent “Miracle Healing Service” took place in the Caribbean nation of Trinidad and Tobago over the weekend, and the Texas-based Christian minister reportedly asked the thousands in attendance to each give a $100 donation to help defray expenses for the two-day event, hosted by a local Pentecostal church.

    According to local media reports, Hinn told an estimated 12,000 people at Saturday’s meeting at Hasely Crawford Stadium in Port-of-Spain that he did not accept any gifts or take “even half a cent” in payment for the weekend evangelistic services. “I am doing this freely, because I love Trinidad,” he reportedly said, adding that donations would not be for him “but for the kingdom [of God].”

    Newsday Trinidad and Tobago reports that the 60-year-old prosperity preacher “urged believers to contribute US$100 or its local equivalent TT$600″ to help cover expenses for the Saturday-Sunday events, which many attended in hopes of experiencing a miracle healing. The publication adds that Hinn described donating as “sowing a seed” and reportedly told worshippers that giving money would result in prosperity in their lives.

    “You will produce a harvest for the rest of your life. There will be a miracle in your finances and that of your family,” the publication reports Hinn as saying. The evangelical Christian minister emphasized that the monies given would remain on the island “for God to take care” of the people.

    The publication reports that many in attendance made contributions.

    Woodbrook Pentecostal Church hosted the weekend events, which were free to the public, as is often the case with Hinn’s evangelistic events.

  107. chas351 Apr 18th 2013

    Andrew

    said “Jesus did the same

    So did the apostles

    I felt it was very appropriate – and biblical”

    ………………………………………………………………..

    Jesus did NOT do the same – the people He rebuked did NOT believe in Him, which is a HUGE contrast to these preachers

    Blessings

  108. chas351 Apr 18th 2013

    Robert

    Giving, Receiving & Multiplication is Biblical.

    ~in the middle of the night i once heard GOD say to me… “give your way to prosperity”

    Our Faith is NOT about money, but obeying God’s Will.

    TRUE.

  109. chas351,

    Matthew 13:24-30 speaks of the wheat and the tares – those who like a lot like wheat yet were actually planted by the enemy. Matthew 7:15-23 speaks of wolves in sheeps clothing whom we’ll know by their “fruit” (doctrine, what they teach), which is followed by folks pleading with Jesus, ‘didn’t I do all these things in Your name?’ (paraphrase), to which Jesus will say “I never knew you!”.

    These Scriptures imply that there will be some who make all the right claims yet were never HIS to begin with. People lie all the time; why would we not think there wouldn’t be some doing it in the church for personal gain?

    But, more to the point, if you really look at their doctrines, what they truly believe, you’ll find their beliefs are at odds with orthodox Christianity. I’ll repeat: I highly recommend the book A Different Gospel by D.R. McConnell which exposes the Word of Faith’s roots in Christian Science, New Thought, etc.

  110. chas351 Apr 18th 2013

    Craig

    yes i agree with you in Matt13

    what preacher out there does not have a mix of truth & error?

    Eccl 5:3a
    a fool’s voice is known by multitude of words.

    Prov 10:19
    Sin is not ended by multiplying words, but the prudent hold their tongues.

    1 John 1:10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be …
    … we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place
    in … If we say, “We don’t have any sin,” we make Him a liar, and His …

  111. This is a pretty sad day my friends. A song that goes for 4 mins clearly designed to bring about the demise of precious people who have been faithful on the earth. Please don’t insult my intelligence without providing proof. We better be extremely careful in attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil which is a clear message in this song. Do your own research and have a look at the fruit of these people’s lives and then decide.

  112. alphafaith Apr 18th 2013

    My Brother’s and Sister’s have you ever spoken at Church? Remember how relevant you wanted to be? How you prepared every word for a few people gathered around? What would you do if you had 30,000 people hanging on your every word?
    When is the last time you did and said this at your Church?
    (I am not sure how to share youtube stuff, but I ask that you watch this and be honest about it. Cut and paste it in google or bing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTIzeSMt7fU&feature=player_detailpage

  113. Andrew: “Rap singers like Shai Linne (above) and Timothy Brindle put out some of the most biblical, uncompromising and high-quality Christian music on the earth today.”
    Just because it is “Rap” does not make it ungodly.”

    WORD – AMEN!

  114. Serenity Apr 18th 2013

    Thank you alphafaith for sharing the video above.

    We ought to consider carefully if we are doing the right thing before naming and shaming any ‘minister of Christ’.

    Pray for them and their salvation and protection from the evil one. Beware, our adversary is seeking for our destruction too.

    If you THINK they’re wrong, pray for their souls.

    If you KNOW they’re wrong, pray more for them.

    We may still warn people we know, to be prayerful and discerning as to how they hear, (if they are going to hear), such teachers.
    I personally attended a Benny meeting in 1997 (?) in which he made a false prophecy of revival, and a false promise to establish a Christian radio station in the country.
    Not good fruit !

    The archangel Michael did not dare to bring a full-on verbal judgment against the devil, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you’.
    Watch your back and your heart before launching a full-on verbal lashing against anyone who preaches the Gospel.

  115. i do have problems of course with some of these people, but i have greater problems with ignorant christians. kenneth copeland for example has been teaching the body of christ for many years…without scandal, still with the same wife,he has taught on countless subjects…from the rapture to healing…..because God has blessed him financially..does that make him a false teacher….what has he said false ? the world can curse the name of christ,be sodomites,blasphemers etc.,and drive a new car….but if a servant of jesus has some wealth..he is a ‘prosperity teacher’…don’t you think that is a weird way of thinking ?i wonder who influences that thinking…God or satan ? i am a businessman and a christian minister….i am not wealthy ..yet…but i believe the Lord has promised to bless my business and make me wealthy…..it is beginning to happen…..will i become a ‘false teacher’ just because i get some money ? Or how much money is a christian allowed to have ? what kind of crazy thinking is this ? now i am not a ‘follower’of any of the named ministers, but i have listened to some of them…….actually they seem more biblical then most people on this website.if there is a real problem then point it out, but just because you cannot handle money and do not want to prosper……is God to stop blessing everyone ? In love.Amen

  116. Val Pym Apr 18th 2013

    ‘A false prophet is someone who has had a revelation we haven’t had yet’
    I believe that the Cross reversed the Cross and restored all that satan stole. There is a basis of truth in the teaching of prosperity.
    However I think that in some ministries there is an over emphasis on prosperity which really turns people off. As my husband said ‘It’s like the sale of indulgences’ that Martin Luther protested about.
    When Simon tried to buy ‘the gift of God’ Peter rebuked him. Acts 8:20. I think that some of the teachers in the song have been unfairly named.
    Paul said [Phil4:10-11] ‘I have learned in whatever state I am to be content. I know how to be abased and I know how to abound…I have learned to be full and to be hungry both to abound and to suffer need.’
    There needs to be balance in the teaching.

  117. chas351 Apr 18th 2013

    David

    true is what you say

    Amen Brother
    Chas
    NZ

  118. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @Sidah & others.
    One of the major reasons Joyce Meyers is mentioned (dont attack the messenger – attack what is stated) is that she is teaching both men and women.
    This is anti-scriptural and not seen in the OT/NT. The scriptures are written by Jews and used in Jewish NT assemblies and NT meetings are seen in the synagoge and home assemblies.
    Consider the following scriptures: I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.1 Tim 2:12

    Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children Titus 2

    The scriptures do not mention women elders, woman pastors, woman bishops anywhere in the NT nor leadership roles unless it is in a negative context (ie Jezebel) nor seen in the Levitical / Zadok priesthood – this cannot be denied (prophetesses are seen.

    The church laity of pastor / congregation is nowhere found in the scriptures and is pagan in principles, inception and practices – this cannot be denied. It resembles nothing of synagoge or the early elect / saints / holy ones assemblies.

    NT tithing is not seen but offerings for the poor as well as giving to those in need and or widows/orphans- This cannot be denied (Kenneth Copeland takes a major hit this).

    I could go on,and on, and on…

    Shalom

  119. margaret Apr 18th 2013

    Some pentecostal teachers have come from uneducated poor backgrounds and seem to covet ‘the Best’ for themselves ( many scriptures encourage the poor to be rich in faith)…personally I think the issue may be more to do with a lack in childhhoods of deprivation. Feelings of inferiority may lead some people to feel that God shows His love to them by wanting them to have things, car money mansions etc. I find the more materials things you have the more responsibility to take care of them so what is the point of acquiring so much? Surely true properity is in the peace of God that passes all understanding . God provides because of our faith in Him …without faith it is impossible to please God. I would love to see the giving done from the pulpit( I know some preachers do this) instead of the taking …teach by example….ah but who said we have to have a pulpit to influence people!!

  120. Brilliant!!!!

  121. Fakaberry…………..be blessed
    GOOD sound advice. I will test all that i hear.
    joel, td, crefo, benny, paul, jan,
    oprah wimprehy, rick warren,
    all preach a false gosple of self indulgence
    and worldy lusts.
    I cant say that every name the group gave was false
    because i aint seen them all.
    But having heard the main ones
    i believe these GUYS already tested all the names they said on the song. However, the names i just listed
    and others i have not, all false. Not of GOD at all.
    AND i aint judging………….i am warning. steer clear
    oh, from JOYCE meyer as well, and paul white.
    However i do take your good advice and will test all
    THANK you very much for the advice.
    and keep praying for me and others. be blessed.

  122. Rap is like chanting a mantra. Does anyone realize where this music got its start before Christians brought it into God’s house?

    Someone mentioned how scriptural Shai Linns songs are.

    This man believes in limited atonement. In this doctrine they think that Jesus only died for the elect and no others. This belief comes directly out of Calvinism.

    Jesus died for all, is what the Bible teaches.

    Quote: Linne is Reformed in his theology, and his 2008 album The Atonement included a song “Mission Accomplished”, which defended limited atonement.Quote

    I was thinking last night will it come to the point people will be doing rap in the churches as a form of worship. Just to keep the youth happy so they won’t go out into the world.

    Do we now need Rap, Hip-Hop, and Rock and Roll to reach this generation of youth?

    Lord Bless
    GaryB

  123. II don’t think using the ” music ” medium is any worse than false teachers being criticised in books, magazines and websites.
    They have to be exposed somehow and the young listen to such songs.

    I do understand your views though Gary about rap “music.” well any ” Christian rock music” as I remember reading a story about a missionary amongst tribal peoples who went home to Europe for a holiday and his teenagers returning with various Christian rock cd’s .The converted amongst the natives heard the music coming from the house and in a state of panic knocked on the door of the missionary to ask why they were listening to drum music they had previously used to summon demons.

    This really shocked him as it did me me when I read his story in a Christian publication.We can make all sorts of excuses about Christian rock music, but usually converts are more aware of dangers than we are. My teenagers do not agree !

  124. I came up in the seventies as well. The world at that time frowned upon the rebellious youth who did not follow the norm of society.

    When the Lord started to deal with my heart it was not by some church that was groovin ‘ and gyrating to Jimi Hendrix. Neither was it by some long or short haired preacher dancin’ and prancin’ to win the lost. It was not because some man was saying I could be wealthy as well. Nor was it because some church was tryin’ to be cool and hip.

    It was because I realized I was a sinful person and would be cast into hell if I did not repent of my sins. Jesus did not send a rock band to try and reach me.

    Can you imagine God saying I need this type of music to reach the youth today otherwise they will not come and be part of my kingdom?

    God showed me what I was, lost and a sinner and He opened my eyes spiritually to see my condition as He saw it.

    Some of you should realize we do not need the world and its ways to reach the youth. We need ministers that are a burning flame that can take the sword of the Spirit and bring conviction through anointed preaching.

    Its easy to explain this all away, But do you really believe that Jesus Christ, God almighty needs a certain type of music to reach the youth?

    The problem is are we letting God reach the youth or is it us in our own power trying to reach them by entertaining them into the kingdom.

    We have all known for years and years that many of these preachers are preaching a message that is not balanced and does not line up with scripture, when it comes to the distortion of the prosperity gospel. Do we beat this dead dog to death, that now we have to sing about it?

    GaryB

  125. Maria,

    I was writing and did not see your post. I agree and this is mainly what I have been trying to say here. I know these guys are wrong.

    But using the music medium is equally as wrong because at that point it becomes belittling to others. It is amazing how Christians sanctify some things as being acceptable to the Lord.

    GaryB

  126. Clarification: “These guys being wrong”, I was thinking of the prosperity preachers.

    Lord Bless Everyone’s day,
    GaryB

  127. Andrew Apr 18th 2013

    This man is not rapping to be “cool”

    He is doing it from the heart because that is how his generation communicates. He is speaking to their hearts – with SCRIPTURE.

    Which is why John Wesley and other godly men said – “Why should the devil have all the best music?”

    I agree with Wesley.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  128. antipas
    Re; Joyce Meyer – Can’t believe this issue needs clarification. I believe this scripture is a cross reference to the one you mentioned in Timothy:

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

    Can I draw your attention to the last line? What law is being referred to here??

    I also suggest you do an exegesis on this passage In Ephesians 4:

    But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:

    “When he ascended on high,
    he took many captives
    and gave gifts to his people.”[b]

    9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

    (Sorry to be off topic but couldn’t help myself) :)

  129. Jda016 Apr 18th 2013

    I think one of the greatest false teachings around today is the, “Don’t touch the Lord’s anointed” or the ” don’t judge lest you be judged.” These scriptures are taken out of context in order to justify blatantly heretical teachings. Of course we should pray for these people, but we also must warn those who are weaker in the faith about them.

    I once had a youth pastor tell me that if the head pastor ever had an affair, that he would never confront him or expose his sin. While this may sound very noble, the Bible commands us to “expose the deeds of darkness” (Eph 5:11). It also commands us to not even eat lunch with such a person who is named a brother or sister and committing adultery (1 Cor 5:9-11).

    Of course we are to deal with brothers and sisters in sin with love and care, compassion and prayer, however if they never repent (change) and we continue to “cover them” then we are affirming their sin and have become partakers in it.

    As to the falseness of these ministers, all one has to do is google them and read the countless quotes that condemn themselves. People like Copeland, Hinn, and others literally preach that we are little gods and equal to God. Sound familiar? Cause Satan told Eve the same thing when he got her to eat of the forbidden fruit. Mormonism and New Age all teach the “little god” doctrine. Now it has just infiltrated Christianity. Let him who has eyes see the truth!

  130. Marsha Farmer Apr 18th 2013

    Totally appropriate, all this money laundering in the kingdom is of the devil!

  131. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @Sidah – you bring up a good point on “They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says”.
    1. Lets look back at the curse in the garden (Gen 3;16) and moving forward to
    Women are to be in submission to the man as the divine decree says – this cannot denied. Women were not permitted to serve in the Levitical / Zadok priesthood nor Sanhedrin counsel of 70 formed by Moses.
    2. Not being allowed to speak – from the scriptures women have always been allowed to learn Torah, take a Nazarite vow etc.. women were present in services to hear the Word of God (Neh. 8:2-3), and engaged in music ministry (Ex. 15:20-21; 1 Chron. 25:5), women sang and danced in worship and often celebrated before the LORD with singing, dancing, and tambourines (e.g., 1 Samuel 18:6; Psalm 68:25), and prophesy often included instruments1 Chron.25:1-3, prophecy was also often sung as the Psalms were inspired words put to song. The “daughters of music” (Eccl.12:4) were singing women, but they were not included in the temple choir.
    Btw, Interestingly enough, the bible and OT history has wonderful illustrations denoting the wonderful feral nature of women (Ie Semiramis, Jezabel to name a few)

    As mentioned, in Tim & Titus – Paul lays out the requirements for elders and deacons. They are male unless I am mistaken.
    Further Paul gives very specific instructions – that he does not allow a women to teach man but than states older women are to teach younger women ” to love their husbands and children” (which means they dont love their husband and children and must be taught) :)

    Women exert their influence through the man behind the scenes and have done effectively for centuries as Gibbons The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Only when women are given a voice – he mentioned when women were given a a voice in the senate does that bring around the demise.
    The same is the body of Christ :)
    Shalom

  132. It is a blessing to see brothers like this be bold and declare the truth. But the need is for other Biblical godly men on TV who have national pulpits to do so also.

  133. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    antipas4yahshua,
    The woman who is to be quiet and be in submission is the “Carnal Mind”. Men and women alike have this and so they do need to allow God to place His heel on it in subjection and teach. A physical woman who the Christ is speaking through should be a word that is honored and appreciated. Not all physical men who speak are speaking with the mind of Christ but are speaking from the carnal mind/woman/harlot etc..
    Shalom

  134. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    Teshuva
    The woman who is to be quiet and be in submission is the “Carnal Mind”.
    Chapter & verse please….
    As the scripture states – Paul gave very specific instruction on who women should teach in Titus 2:3-4- this cannot be denied
    As the scripture states – a women is be submissive to the man and man is give sacrificially as Christ did (1 Pet 3 & Eph 5)- this cannot be denied.
    Btw, I suggest you at the rest of the scriptures as well as the examples set forth in the scripture:
    Creation order: Man was created first, woman second. “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.” 1 Tim2:13
    Creation origin: Man and all creation was created by God directly out of dust, whereas woman was created through the man’s rib.” Genesis 2:7 ” Genesis 2:22 “For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man”1 Cor11:8
    Creation purpose: Woman created for man: “for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake.”1 Cor11:9
    Man named woman: Gen 2:23
    Delegation principle: God commanded directly to Adam alone. The prohibition to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was made directly by God to Adam. “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”” Gen 2:16-18
    Woman sinned first: Gen 3:1
    Man is the glory of God, woman is the glory of man: “For a man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.” 1 Cor 11:7
    Paul pointed Christians to the Mosaic Law that was 1500 earlier and a different culture: 1 Cor.14:34
    Peter pointed Christians to Sarah,
    Shalom

  135. Gary B,

    With all due respect, you are missing the point of the wheat and the tares of Matthew 13. Sure, no one has 100% perfect theology, but the wheat vs. tares parable is about Satan himself planting folks in the ‘church’ to do his bidding. With that in mind, we have to face the fact that there undoubtedly ARE plants of the enemy in the pews and pulpits. The question to answer is who are they?

    In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus describes wolves in sheep’s clothing – different terminology for the same thing. These folks are not just ‘off’ a little bit doctrinally, they are ‘of their father, the devil’ since Jesus exclaims at the eschaton “I never knew you!”.

    Have you really looked into the theology of the Word of Faith movement? I provided a link earlier to Del Ballo’s article ‘Atonement Where?’ (see above). The underlying belief is that Jesus was a really great man (not God). Of course, not many say this anymore, yet I’ve not heard or seen in print from any one of those mentioned in this song a recanting of their statements to this effect. And, yes this includes Copeland – especially Copeland. Going by memory, all those mentioned, except perhaps Jakes, has explicitly stated that Jesus died spiritually, went to hell, and was subsequently born again (yes, even Joyce Meyer). That’s rank blasphemous heresy!

    This was a doctrine espoused by Kenneth E. Hagin (I have a book with a specific quote and have referenced it my own blog) and handed down to Copeland, Dollar, Meyer, etc.

    It’s one thing to not fully understand some of the more difficult theological concepts. It’s quite another to teach this garbage from the pulpit as all these have done!

    Going back to Jakes: he is a Oneness Pentecostal believing in modalism; i.e., that God is only in one mode at one time. This is an implicit denial of the Trinity.

    These guys deserve no defense, they should be exposed as the false teachers they are! Romans 16:17-19 illustrates this well:

    17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil.

    It is those who are spouting off false doctrine who are dividing, NOT those who are exposing these false teachers. Mark ’em and avoid them!

  136. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    antipas4yahshua
    Paul also said, what? did the word of God come to you only? So if I go by what you understand of scripture then women do not have the word of God in them and only men do.
    However if you go back to the beginning as John says.
    which takes us back to Gen. you will see that God made man/mankind in His own image and male and female made He them and called THEM Adam/mankind.
    So we are all created in His image, male and female.
    The name El Shaddai means TEET and breast.
    Why do you think the scriptures say, out of the mouth of babes and sucklings have I perfected praise? Do all babies suck at the breast or is it male only?
    If you choose you can also see that the Holy Spirit is gendered to be a female. And in all actuality was to be that “HELP MEET” to mankind. We should ask and or include God in all things.
    As for Peter and Paul– show me where anyone other than Paul preached the Body of Christ. Did Peter?
    If I am in the body am I not to share that which I have been given the measure of faith? If you are in the body are you not also allowed to share your measure of faith? Can we not all share our measure of faith and eat the body of Christ. Did not the scriptures say that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters will what? prophesy– hmm
    can you explain the virtuous woman to me? Did she not hunt in the scriptures through the night/ignorance and then have food for her family in the morning/understanding? What say her husband about her??

  137. David Kelling Apr 18th 2013

    Check out Aviad Cohen a Jewish rapper who gave his life to Jesus and his music, he is very good, sample on http://www.last.fm

  138. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @ Teshuva
    I asked for scriptures regarding your statement of “The woman who is to be quiet and be in submission is the “Carnal Mind”.
    You have not submitted the scriptures – the ball is in your court.

    Btw, I have not said women are any less important than man – this cannot be denied. They are not – both are equally important but as mentioned different.
    Every male/female has a role, function, place and purpose.
    It is the divine order.
    As Yahshua is subject to Yahwah, so is man subject to Yahshua, and so is woman subject to man (One can also replace “subject” with “the glory”).

    Shalom

  139. Teshuva,

    While I don’t wish to join in the discussion as to whether women can teach, I take exception to your depiction of the Godhead. The Triune God is genderless. Yes, the Word was made flesh as the Incarnate Jesus Christ – the unique God-man – but, the Word, the second ‘Person’ of the Trinity, is without gender. Same with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

    There are a number of occult teachings of various permutations which state that God the Father is literally male and the Holy Spirit is female. Some go so far as to say that their union produced the Son. Blasphemy.

    Your depiction of El Shaddai has merit, but only as a metaphor.

    There a number of things, especially in the OT, known as anthropomorphisms (from the Greek anthropos = man; morphe = form), and what you’ve described is one of them. For example, Moses didn’t literally see God’s ‘backside’, for God is spirit and spirit is not seen by humans. In fact, there are plenty of Scriptures indicating no one can see God.

    I ask you to be very careful in which doctrines you adopt.

  140. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Antipas4yahshua,
    Bravo!! Divine order!!!!
    Yes and what is the divine order? Does He not give here a little and there a little-precept upon precept etc..
    Here’s is God’s Order divinely designed by our FAther…
    Father>The
    Word>Son>Reality>Faith>Belief>Behavior>Destiny
    Christ is all and in all. How many? All.
    As He is so are we in the world.

  141. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Craig,
    Exactly– God is spirit.
    What is man?
    Man is soil with the breath of life/ God breathed in him.

  142. Teshuva,

    Yes, and animals, birds, etc. all have the breath of life [Gen 1:30]; so, what is your point?

  143. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @Teshuva – you still didnt answer with scripture regarding your statement of “The woman who is to be quiet and be in submission is the “Carnal Mind”.

    This is not about whether women should teach or not. The scriptures are very clear. The issue is about to “whom” and “what”.
    And to bring what Paul and Peter mentioned in Titus 2, Eph 5, and 1Peter to present day in “context” is simply not being done.
    Here is a example.
    When was the last time anyone heard a women (lets use Joyce) address younger “feminized” USA women to “submit” to their husbands (Eph 5 /1 Peter 3) and to “fear / terror / Greek phoebe “for their husbands and call him “lord” as Sarah did with Abraham ?
    Yeah right !!!! Has she taught younger women to “love = obey” their husbands and children ?
    If she did, she would have the largest back door revival in history and exceeding the one mentioned in John 6 ie “many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
    It simply aint gonna happen by mainstream evangelicals. Instead what is presented is men are to sacrifically give but not be obeyed. This was clearly illustrated by two Hollyweird movies that were embraced by current evangelicals (Fireproof & Courageous) which wonderfully promote the double standard.
    This cannot be denied.

    “Mainstream” has diluted the scriptures to appeal for $$$, that discipleship completely unrecognizable and damaged/impaired many to the point they are casualties before they even get started.
    The rap song brings this to light.
    Shalom

  144. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Craig,
    God created man in His image and likeness.
    The animals are not created in His image though they have breath.

  145. Teshuva,

    Can you provide the Scripture for your assertion that “Christ is all and in all” and, “As he is so are we in the world”? On the latter, make sure you put it in proper context.

    The more I read what you write, the more I’m becoming convinced that you are adhering to a Gnostic/New Age conception. That is, all have a ‘divine spark’, ‘divine seed’, etc. which just needs to awakened, then grown to perfection. Am I correct?

  146. Image and likeness yes; but not exact replica. We are above the animals, yet we are not virtual gods in the making.

  147. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Craig,
    Col.3:11 Christ is all and in all.
    1 John 4:17 as he is so are we in the world.
    If that is new age, then I guess I am new age, if it is gnostic/knowledge then I guess I am gnostic.
    As for divine spark– I do not know what you are referring to.

  148. Teshuva,

    Do you mean that there’s a “Christ” in all, that all men have a “Christ spirit”, “Christ seed”, or something to that effect? That’s a Gnostic/New Age belief. On the contrary, once we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, upon acceptance of Christ as Savior, then we have ‘merely’ an indwelt Holy Spirit – we do not have “God’s spirit” until the salvation experience, we are not born with it.

    1 John 4:17 does not mean we become like Christ in a literal sense, it means we are to love like Jesus and in that respect imitate Him (see other translations). Yes, we are to grow in Christlikeness, but we never actually attain that goal in this life.

  149. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    She only quoted 1/2 the verse…”So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.”
    I am going to assume she is under the assumption that they are “identical” in purpose, role, place, and function.
    They are not. While they are of “equal” in “value” but not “identical” nor “interchangeable” (there are exceptions ie prophets etc.)
    Permit me say G_D has the universe tuned to a gnats whisker. His attention to detail is very very specific and seen in the construction of the tabernacles.
    The same is for the Body of Yahshua.
    Dont confuse role/function/purpose with value. Paul mentions this in his writings.
    Shalom.

  150. Teshuva,

    My suspicions are raised because of the proof-texts you use. You must always put Scripture in its proper, broader context. By context, Col 3:11 refers to holy living in general and in particular that there are no special Christians (as opposed to non-Christians) – Greek and Jew are same, circumcised [Jew in this case] and uncircumcised [Gentile] are the same

  151. antipas4yahshua,

    Yes, you are correct that she only quote part of the verse. This is a common ploy of false teachers. I’m well aware of the occult/esoteric teaching that Adam was an androgynous/bi-gendered creature.

  152. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Criag,
    with all due respect to you, how do we grow except by a seed. Nature teaches us that.
    The spirit of God is seed. Reborn from above and then we will not act like animals, but will have the resemblance of God to love and imitate Christ.
    You call me new age and gnostic–Bless you.
    I say to you that there are some things that you have written I hear my Fathers voice coming from you.
    You cannot have Christ likeness without the seed.
    Every seed reproduces after its own kind–that is scripture– yet His divine order is that He created us and so we are subjected to Him.
    Faith in Him is not for this eon only but the eons to come.

  153. Teshuva,

    Here’s a simple question: Do you believe all wo/men have a Christ seed awaiting to be awakened to grow?

  154. The indwelt Holy Spirit is not some sort of ‘seed’ needing growth. When an individual accepts Christ, s/he receives 100% of the Holy Spirit. The struggle for the Christian is in learning to live by the Holy Spirit and not the flesh. And it’s a constant struggle, one which we never overcome in this life.

  155. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @ Craig & Teshuva – permit to request a “time out” :)
    i would really like to see the scripture regarding Teshuva statement of “The woman who is to be quiet and be in submission is the “Carnal Mind”.
    Shalom

  156. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Craig
    Children do not have to grow/mature? All Children are born fully mature?

  157. Teshuva,

    Does the Holy Spirit need to grow/mature?

    I think it only fair that you answer antipas4yahshua’s inquiry above and that you give a simple yes or no to my question as to whether you believe that all of mankind has a ‘Christ seed’ (or something of the sort) which needs to be awakened and then grown to maturity.

  158. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    Craig,
    So we are not to awaken to righteousness?
    Antipas is twisting what I said.
    I said that the carnal mind is to be subjected not we to be subjected to the carnal mind.

  159. Teshuva,

    You are dancing around the question – a typical ploy of false teachers.

  160. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    God bless you Craig.

  161. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    This is prima facie evidence on why Paul wrote what he did in Titus that older women should instruct younger women as was the Jewish custom among others.
    Feminized women detest be corrected by men (as clearly seen) and hide the tracks or traces of the truth as seen in Pro 30
    The way of an eagle in the sky, The way of a serpent on a rock, The way of a ship in the middle of the sea, And the way of a man with a maid. This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth, And says, “I have done no wrong.”
    Shalom

  162. Teshuva,

    Let’s try a different angle here to give you the benefit of the doubt: Could you describe what it means to become a Christian, i.e. the ‘born again’ experience? What does salvation and justification mean?

  163. Teshuva Apr 18th 2013

    I used to do things that I should not do but when His love came in it subjected me to not do the things I used to do that I thought was right in my own eyes.
    I am saved by grace through faith.

  164. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @ Craig – allow me to suggest that when any person who starts with “saved by grace” that actually means they have bought into false teaching that “favor/grace” nullifies, does away with, minimizes, overrides, and/or replaces the stern commandment of Yahshua & apostles as well as the law of reaping and sowing.
    Here are a couple example.
    Yahshua said if we love Him- we will keep is His commandments.
    Grace says if we love Jesus but we dont have to keep His commandments.

    Paul said For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
    Grace says you can live according to the flesh, and you wont die etc..

    It is lawlessness & the “thou shall not die in death” lie.
    Shalom

  165. Teshuva,

    You’ve already identified yourself as adhering to ‘hyper-grace’ teachings.

    I submit you’ve not fully expressed a Christian view. You wrote, “I am saved by grace through faith.” – by faith in what/whom are you saved and how? What exactly has provided for your salvation? What is justification?

  166. For regarding women teaching, I thought this link did a good job explaining with biblical evidence.
    http://www.raystedman.org/thematic-studies/questions-and-answers/should-a-woman-teach-in-church

    NOW back on topic.

    I’ve gotten to the point I don’t read or watch anything from anyone. I did see a clip of Francis Chan that I enjoyed though. But that one clip is all I know about him. He at least appears real.

    I don’t believe wealth is wrong, and I get really aggravated at people who condemn others for wealth. It is extremely relative. If you live in America you are wealthier than like 90% of the world. You going to condemn someone for having a Mercedes logo on the front of their car instead of a Honda?

    As I recall the richest man in all of history was a God-fearing man. It wasn’t wealth that made him sin, but his desire for women outside of Israel.

    I see nothing wrong with wealth and neither does God. The issue is exploitation. You can’t make a “ministry” profitable. I don’t agree with church charity in America. Why should churches get a tax break, and then because of that money be afraid to express a view on homosexuality. That’s wrong. The church gets bribed with money to keep silent. Who cares about tax exemption??? Did not Jesus say render to Caesar?

    I think it would be better to make a benevolent business that would employ the homeless or low-income families. Not just give to them. Did not Paul say “If a man does not work he does not eat”. Then you don’t have to beg for charity, just like Paul was a tent maker and didn’t accept offerings. Why don’t we do what’s patterned for us in the New Testament?

    I’ve had a hard time figuring out whether it was right to accept money for ministry. Paul says it isn’t wrong, but can be dangerous to the gospel. Would it be wrong for me to make money off selling books? I’m not asking for money, I’m selling printed paper, and not overpriced crap like “Give us a love gift of a thousand dollars and we’ll give you a DVD of a 30 minute message.” So far I haven’t made anything off of it. I’ve actually just given books away at a loss to me, and even as a self-publisher I get 1/2 or less of the selling price.

    Just a question.

  167. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    Hi Ben,

    That is a very good link, however, it is incomplete. Paul gave very specific instructions as seen in 1 Tim and Titus regarding roles and teaching.
    I would suggest “laying everything on the table out” and going from there.
    As mentioned, women are permitted to “teach” and it is other women and not men. It is the same exact Greek word. In addition, he was very specific on what should be taught – this cannot be denied.
    I think it would be awesome for a prominent female Christian leader as Joyce Meyers to take “feminism” head and teach what the scriptures say- but this is highly unlikely since the outcome would result in a loss of $$$$$.

    Shalom

  168. Brother Andrew Strom and Craig,

    Thanks for your kindness in sharing. This action speaks louder then what anyone else has said here.

    I know its not just the Jesus died spiritually heresy that these men teach but other doctrines that are equally as bad, give to get, seed faith, etc., that is spreading the wrong message to the church and world.

    You have to understand that someone who came out of a rock background sees a powerful force that sways the youth. I just have an uneasy feeling about rap, hip hop, rock, in the church.

    It was music that changed the whole mindset of the world we know today. This liberal, free thinking society we live in.

    I just believe the Lord has a better way, that’s all.

    GaryB

  169. Jda016 Apr 18th 2013

    Women can teach women, but if men choose to come and listen as well, is that wrong? I don’t believe it is unless there is a scripture that forbids men from listening to women, which I do not believe there is one.

  170. David Kelling Apr 18th 2013

    Wow people shalom out and go listen to some heavenly Jimmy Black praise and worship music he has cuts on his site, very beautiful.

  171. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @JDA016
    That is a very very good question. However, Paul does write “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man”.
    If a man wishes to sit in on a group of women receiving “didaskein” and listen allow me to suggest “Btw, thank you for the interrupting the ladies event “.
    I would suggest asking for permission from the older woman conducting the “didaskein” if it would be a disruption. That would appear to in proper order as well as good form.
    Most women IMO preferred to be separated from men (this is seen in todays society as well) despite them insisting on equal access into mens only areas.
    Interesting double standard IMO :)
    Another suggestion would be to check with the local synagogues and Messianic congregrations – there assemblies/practices are much closer to OT/NT biblical practices than current pagan Christian evangelical assemblies.
    Shalom

  172. Gary B,

    You’re welcome. I was going by memory, but I forgot one very important thing in the steps to the Jesus ‘born again’ heresy. The claim is also that Jesus’ spiritual death meant that He took on Satan’s nature! I used Hagin’s quote in an article illustrating just how close Bill Johnson got to stating this. Yet I’m sure Johnson was well aware of the firestorm which erupted years ago when this doctrine was exposed, so he tempered his statement accordingly. The Hagin quotes are near the top of this article with footnote references at the end:

    http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/bill-johnsons-born-again-jesus-part-ii/

  173. Andrew Apr 18th 2013

    Can this thread be kept “on topic” please?

    It is supposed to be about this song and it’s subject.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  174. Vicki Lynn Apr 18th 2013

    GaryB….. Thank You so much for all your input.

    Would Jesus to-day preach in RAP to reach the lost.

  175. GaryB,

    I can understand your perspective about music. I myself grow up with all sorts of music. And I didn’t grow up Christian, only coming to faith about 13 years ago.

    While rap music has never appealed to me, I do think this gets a good message across. No, it’s not worship in a specific sense; but, I don’t think music has to be worship in order to be considered ‘Christian’ or even ‘good’.

    While I don’t think, as Christians, we should ever bow to secularism or current trends, this piece will likely hit it’s target audience. Most of the postmodern generation are used to information in short bytes or a message through music. And this is a positive message about a very negative thing occurring in the ‘Church’. In this way, it glorifies God, by defending His name.

  176. Thank you Craig,

    I did not know others were aware of these heresies that the WOF preachers promote. The prosperity message is peanuts compared to this deadly heresy that says Jesus became sin and had to be born again.

    Copeland originally got the message from E.W.Kenyon and it has spread like wildfire among the big name TV preachers.

    For all its worth I did read an article that Jimmy Swaggart repented of this heresy and said the Lord showed him it was wrong. He had the article printed in several major newspapers.

    Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.

    GaryB

  177. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    Yahshua spoke many times in parables that were utterly incomprehensible except to to those “with ears to hear”.
    Think hard about this one- He made it intentionally hard and very difficult to understand.
    John 6, Luke 7, Matt 21 and many many others.
    I strongly suggest looking at the content.
    Many Christian artists (ie like Delirious, Matt Redman, Misty Edwards are quite anointed and sing to their genere). This is no different. If that is the case, then Southern gospel is off.
    Shalom

  178. Vicki Lynn,

    I agree.

    What does God think about all of this is the whole issue. I’m sure these guys are great singers and entertainers. But I feel we are training up the youth where they think this is what Christianity is about.

    I cannot ever imagine the old time revivalists doing the “charleston” or other hip dance moves to reach the youth of their day and time.

    The Question is; Does God need hip hop, rap, and rock to reach the lost?

    It sounds like were trying to do it our way.

    GaryB

  179. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @Gary i
    Is what come forth “hip hop, rap, and rock to reach the lost?” or to water baptized, born again, evangelical Christians to warn them of false teachers and false doctrine ?

  180. OneBody Apr 18th 2013

    GaryB,

    re:The Question is; Does God need hip hop, rap, and rock to reach the lost? It sounds like were trying to do it our way.

    WE tend to think he needs our methods to accomplish his goals. Man is kinda egocentric that way. God isn’t bound by our ways. I was into smoking marijuana when God saved me. I clearly recall the very ‘deep study’ of a huge oak tree in our yard; concluding there must be a God to create such a wonderful tree..L:DL! He actually saved me in-spite-of the world’s ‘helpful influences’, not because of them. He convicted me of my sinfulness, and I never smoked again, though, I had foolishly believed that God actually used the smoking to open my mind and teach me of him. Some believe he uses the music, some the worldly friends..etc. He works in-spite-of these things, not because of them.

    I have enjoyed your opinions on this.

  181. OneBody Apr 18th 2013

    PS…I never inhaled it though! Right?!!

  182. With regard to this article on the Prosperity Preachers, the comforting thing about interactive websites like Andrew’s, is that you find many other believers also see similarily with regard to the ‘deception in the church’. Often in one’s home city/nation, such believers are few and far between, so when you see globally, that God is showing many, many people the errors out there, it is a reassuring thing. The many good discernment websites too are a great blessing to ‘seekers of the truth’ such as
    http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html
    Let us reason together ministries -Mike Oppenheimer
    and many more…………

    The list of PP’s and general false teachers, false prophets, false movements and false doctrines is so much on the increase. Studying church history since the birth of the church at Pentecost
    there were many adverse influences, right back in the Apostolic Age. Satan was trying to erode adherence to NT scriptures way back then.
    Excerpt: However, dark, foreboding clouds lay on the horizon. The latest writings of the New Testament (John’s books) seem to confirm the existence of the apostasies that Paul prophesied (Acts 20:29, I Tim. 4:1-3; II Tim. 3:1-9; 4:3, 4). Men did arise to usurp pre-eminence and authority over God’s people and by the end of the First Century only two of the seven churches mentioned in John’s Revelation are in very good spiritual condition (Rev. 2,3). Even the mediocre ones had problems with false teachers and immorality in their midst (Rev. 2:14,15 , 20-24).

    So today, as then, the same errors and heresies continue. The best way to stay free from these evil influences, is to be a good student of the Bible ourselves in fact it says “You have no need that any man should teach you because the Holy Spirit guides and leads you into all things”. We should ask the HS what other spirit is operating in this man/woman, ministry, church, etc. If people are not operating under the unction of the HS, then they will be operating under a different (evil) influence.

    Smith Wigglesworth only read one Christian book -the Bible. That may be our safest guide too. We do not become ‘god chasers’ but we sit at the Master’s feet and let him teach us. There are some churches, some meetings, some ministries, some organisations, some books, some DVDs and some TV/radio broadcasts that are not safe for true believers be involved with, so we need to simply just avoid them. The Bible is as good as it gets!!

    Great honest sharing here……………….

  183. I generally agree, particularly where billionaire televangelists have the ability to feed entire nations but instead hoard unto themselves.

    HOWEVER, I have a personal knowledge of Bill Johnson, Randy Clark and to a lesser extent Todd Bentley and don’t believe at all that these men are prosperity preachers. Quite the contrary.

  184. The New Testament does not show or promise us earthly wealth, while the Old Testament does. If these “prosperity preachers” take their teachings from Old Testament scriptures and examples, they are completely right; if they would consider the changes the New Testament shows us – they are not right.

    In my personal consideration we should follow the path the New Testament shows and not teach people to strive for earthly blessings (“1.000 camels” like Abraham, Salomo, king David or Hiob). But I think it could go absolutely way too far to say that preachers like Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland are servants of satan. Maybe “prosperity preachers” do not always have the right view on earthly possesions, but judging is not the right answer.

    I agree with GaryB when he says; “Should not these men (the singers) be weeping and crying at the altar that God would deliver these ministers?” I myself avoid from judging because I want to receive mercy myself when the day of judgement comes …

    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” (Matthew 7:1)

    “Judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.” (James 2:13)

    Many blessings,

    Riccardo

    http://www.7years.org/

    http://www.foundation4worldmission.org/

  185. I can’t say that everything the apostles did was right, and I don’t recall Jesus mentioning specific names. Paul apologized to the high priest Ananias when he insulted him. Peter played favorites with the circumcision group. I’m hesitant to say “This person is evil”. I rather warn against false doctrine than a specific person, because then people will throw out the baby with the bath water rather than testing the spirits and holding onto the good.
    1 Thessalonians 5:21 NIV
    Test everything. Hold on to the good.
    Need to teach people how to discern.

  186. OneBody

    :)

  187. antipas4yahshua Apr 18th 2013

    @Ben – what “Ananias’ did was against the law in having Paul struck. Paul responded as such due the fact “Ananias” was not wearing his high priest garments (he didnt know that Ananias was the high priest – he fully endorsed the Law and not reveiling leaders).
    How did those mentioned become leaders ? Are they following the holy scriptures or the evangelical traditions that are not found in the scriptures nor in the history of the “saints”.
    In review of the many many other scriptures as mentioned in 1 Cor, 2, 2 Cor, Jude, 1&2 Tim, Titus and many many others regarding false teachers.
    There are screaming obvious protocols on what to do when in leaders and members are in question.
    This is not the case in review of the many denominations and the teachings that are in direct conflict with the teaching of Yahshua and the Apostles as well as the early church.

    Shalom

  188. GaryM,

    As regards Bill Johnson being or not being a prosperity preacher: He may not be as explicit as some of the others, but, what about this?

    “…Jesus destroyed the power of sin, sickness, and poverty through His redemptive work on the cross. In Adam and Eve’s commission to subdue the earth, they were without sickness, poverty, and sin. Now that we are restored to His original purpose, should we expect anything less? After all, this is the better covenant!” [When Heaven Invades Earth, 2003, Treasure House/Destiny Image, Shippensburg, PA; p 33]

    And, as far as Bentley, what about this?

    http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/todd-bentley-needs-your-seed-money-to-raise-20000/

    If you don’t think Bentley made a fortune on the so-called “Lakeland Revivial”, then I’ve get this bridge…

  189. Kelling Apr 19th 2013

    Benny Hinn is like a freak show, there is not one medical documented case of anyone being healed, ever, so should he be called out? I hope so.

  190. chas351 Apr 19th 2013

    Todds back… i am still watching it.. 1st few minutes sound fine to me…

    Published 17 April 2013 GodTV

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D30SLbXWzeY

  191. chas351 Apr 19th 2013

    Todd an example of BOLDNESS & FAITH in the POWER of the NAME of JESUS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D30SLbXWzeY

  192. antipas4yahshua Apr 19th 2013

    We need to recognize God’s truth, no matter who’s mouth it comes out of.
    ~Elizabeth Elliot

  193. chas351 Apr 19th 2013

    antipas4yahshua

    true

    ~even if its Pharoah

  194. Andrew Apr 19th 2013

    Oh dear…

    -Andrew

  195. Jda016 Apr 19th 2013

    If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Bentley leave his wife and kids in Canada to marry his secretary or something to that degree?

    How can one be restored to ministry when their “marriage” is a constant ongoing affair?

  196. Jda016 Apr 19th 2013

    The fruit of a person’s life FAR outweighs their words.

  197. Jordan Shepherd Apr 19th 2013

    It’s great God gives us the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us into all truth. When saved in 1990, I found a poetry book in a secular bookstore. I loved that book! Going forward, and having had a dramatic conversion complete with healing, baptism and baptism in water, on the night I received Christ through repentance and belief, I shared three years later with an elderly Christian man, my book, saying, have you ever seen such poetry? He replied: That’s not poetry; that’s hymns. I asked: What is a hymn? I was 30. While attending that Pentecostal church, I sought hymn records from 2nd hand shops in order to teach myself these wonderful songs. I have preached the words of some of those songs during sermons in latter years, testifying to their power and anointing.

    At some early point, when I heard Christians trying to rap out Christian songs, I hastily concluded to the parent of two Christian youth that it was basically all wrong – trying to be cool and all that. One year later I took my words back and in the presence of all affected parties and supported my new found conviction by reciting (rapping) a powerful Christian Gospel message in the genre of rap. Some years later the Lord led me to write a Christian rap song purely on my testimony – it took a half hour and was a finalist award on an international song competition purely for it’s lyric content and no music whatsoever. That was 2005. Perhaps I can share it if the posts don’t close out on me.

    Friends, I believe that “rap” may be the closest thing we have today equivalent to the impact of hymns in the past. Equivalent, but not necessarily attained to the level of anointing as hymns for the most part today. It may be that rap was never meant to reside in the creative expression realm hijacked for perverted and distorted messages we see playing out in the rap scene.

    I have been extremely cautious on the application of rap because of it’s entrenched negative impact in the youth culture of today and it’s roots in rebellion and the like. All expression needs to be discerned, be it words or be it music.

    On the issue of speaking out against false teachers – have courage, but be informed and be prudent, taking care to honour all and above all, honour our Lord.

  198. watchful Apr 19th 2013

    I didn’t discern the spirit of the world in either the words or the music. It was bold…….and at the same time there was something of gentleness about it.

    Those teachers are not ones who have just been mistaken or stumbled here or there, isn’t this more like one huge uninterrupted and ongoing ‘mistake’ of many years duration, and only maybe stumbling into the truth here or there.

  199. antipas4yahshua Apr 19th 2013

    It would appear that Bentley did divorce his wife and marry his secretary.
    Isn’t this adultery as per Matt 19:9, Heb 13:4, 1 Cor 6:18, Matt 5:32 and many, many, many other scriptures both OT/NT ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Bentley

  200. @GaryB I enjoyed your post much more when I rapped it in my head to the prosperity song.

    It’s like the song says, the only “heresy” these days seems to be to say that someone is preaching heresy.

    So if someone is teaching a different version of the Bible than the one we have, should we stay silent or speak up? And if we speak up, does this mean we are now the heritics?

    GaryB, I don’t know how long you have been a follower of Christ or if you know much about our shared history, but all through 2,000 years of Church history, many have stood up to false teaching time-and-time again. Yes, it got heated, but by doing this, many were saved.

    In Christ.

    Shawn

  201. OneBody Apr 19th 2013

    It might be easy for me to rationalize bashing Bentley. But, I don’t know his heart. I don’t know his secret prayers to God. I don’t know what has ‘bent the twig’ from his youth. I cannot be without compassion. God sees the entire picture; while I see a small corner of it. I do know what Todd’s teachings did in our church. I’m uncertain what exposure people here have actually had to the teachings of Todd Bentley. Our church leader fell beneath his sway a few years back. Our entire church was required to support the new-found teachings (kit and kaboodle) . The angels, gold dust, healings, attempts at raising people from death, gold fillings in teeth, aura blue lights of anointing hovering above our leader, visions, dreams, words from God, interpretations, prophecies, imparting of various spirits from straight from Bentley, to our leader; having visited Lakeland, his imparting onto the church leaders, them to our youth. NONE of the manifestations were real at all. The aftermath was disastrous upon everyone. There was no prosperity which flowed from God to the people no matter hard they believed. Most left the church to seek fulfillment elsewhere. The hand of spiritual leadership (Bentley or any spiritual leader), can be far reaching, the pathway of leadership, far stumbling.

  202. antipas4yahshua Apr 19th 2013

    Interesting comment – who is “bashing” Bentley ?
    No derogatory comments was made regarding his personal character or condemning him for his behavior.
    Is simply stating prima facie evidence and asking a question considered bashing ?
    Sorry, but I dont understand how simply bringing a persons behavior in context of the law much like when John accused Herod for taking his wife ie “It is not lawful for you to have her”.
    Again what is stated is simple prima facie evidence / fact and not any bashing.
    Btw Bentley is a fantastic repeat of 1 Cor 5 imo.
    Shalom

  203. antipas4yahshua Apr 19th 2013

    In addition regarding ‘The aftermath was disastrous upon everyone”
    I am quite sure those attending suffered just as much as his ex-wife and children and will into their future.
    Shalom

  204. OneBody Apr 19th 2013

    antipas4yashus,
    I’m very sorry, I didn’t mean to say people were bashing Bentley. Oops! For a while after what our church had experienced as a result of these teachings, ‘ I ‘ had tendency to rail against Todd Bentely. Seeing the “aftermath was disastrous aftermath” on our church was what I was referencing. I do need to be more clear at times. Sorry again.

  205. OneBody Apr 19th 2013

    antipas4yashusa,

    When we experienced the ripple effect of this teaching, a few years ago..we were stunned and very confused. What was this? His Word seemed clear, yet so many people swarmed to take-hold this new teaching. We knew that God was pressing our hearts to search for answers in other places from those having more knowledge than ourselves. We went to the internet to search, and literally stumbled upon this man and answers for all who would listen. We will be forever grateful for him. For his stepping out, and proclaiming certain things to be dangerous indeed. He had words of insight, revelation..he had HEALING words from the aftermath we had experienced. His words helped us resist, see more clearly, and pull away. I recall sitting and crying as we watched his clip series. We finally understood what we had seen. I have tried to balance my heart attitudes with compassion, for the teachers of the Word, are not always immune to satan’s deceptions as well.

    An Insider Warning –
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Y5R_raf6M

  206. antipas4yahshua Apr 19th 2013

    Thank you sharing this. You are so correct. We are all immune to deception and compartmentalized thinking (surest way to tell is to think one is not).
    Kudos to Andrew Strom for having the testicular fortitude to come out and expose what occurred so others don’t fall into the same trap.
    I am quite taken by surprise that Bentley is still doing this and even more shocked that pastors / elders are force feeding the flocks to the wolves.
    Shalom

  207. Shawn Wrote:
    GaryB, I don’t know how long you have been a follower of Christ or if you know much about our shared history, but all through 2,000 years of Church history, many have stood up to false teaching time-and-time again. Yes, it got heated, but by doing this, many were saved. quote….

    Shawn,

    I definitely agree, heresy should be exposed and a trumpet sounded to warn God’s people when it is being taught.

    The Bible says were to reject a heretic after the first or second admonition.

    On the internet the problem I see is that; it is not that easy to say what you mean in a statement when writing a comment. Some people are better then others when it comes to writing their thoughts.

    To be honest from your comment about those standing up and coming against heresy.

    The church has been bombarded with errors and heresy since its birth. The church fathers had to deal with Oneness and many other heresies back in their day and time.

    Before it is over I think scripture says it is going to get so bad that if it were possible the very elect would be deceived. When you think you’ve heard it all someone new comes along with the newest wave of deception.

    I thought it was a good discussion on the Hebrew Roots people trying to bring gentiles under the law. I was not aware that this was even going on and that some Christians are accepting it and putting themselves under the law.

    GaryB

  208. OneBody Apr 19th 2013

    I believe there may be 4 or 5 clips in this series. Our day is becoming more confusing as to the God of Light and he who come as an angel of light.
    Divination: The imitation of the Divine. (John Bevere)

    Rightly diving the Word is our only anchor against a very strong tide. All here would do well to view these clips of Andrew Stroms.

    I agree..
    ‘Kudos to Andrew Strom’ for his fortitude in speaking of these controversial, yet, important issues.

  209. antipas4yahshua Apr 19th 2013

    @GaryB – at what degree are they putting themselves under the law ? Is it cerimonial ? Is is the social laws or Talmud ? Is it the moral laws ?
    As a quick summary, many of these laws exist and have transcended quite a bit (ie become far more difficult under the new Covenant). However, there is far more enablement through the Spirit.
    As Paul mentioned in Rom 8 – one is a slave to the Law of sin / death or one is a slave to righteousness to “the Law of the Spirit of Life in Yahshua”.
    All are under Law- all.
    I have seen many non Jewish Christians turn to Messianic Christianity to escape the very common accepted pagan practices/tradition in evangelical Christianity and secular society (Christmas, Easter, Valentines day to name a few).
    This transitionis clearly documented when Christianity was accepted into Roman culture.
    Shalom

  210. Barry Schmidt Apr 19th 2013

    Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. (Matthew 16:24 NASB)
    All this prosperity gospel is NOT the root of the problem. It is merely ONE OF THE MANY SYMPTOMS OF THE PROBLEM.

    The root of the problem is that being a follower/disciple of Jesus ( “coming after Me”) has been radically redefined from Jesus words above- following Jesus MEANS DENYING SELF, slaying self, abandoning self – FOLLOWING JESUS HAS BEEN RADICALLY REDEFINED BY THE TWO LARGEST MODERN STREAMS OF “Christianity”:
    1. The modern evangelicals have radicallynredefined following Jesus from self denial TO SELF FULFILLMENT. (ie. ” come to Jesus and be personally fulfilled, have a better family, enjoy and improved self.”)
    2. The modern Pentecostals and Charismatics have radically redefined following Jesus from deny yourself to PERSONAL EMPOWERMENT. ( ie. ” come to Jesus and be personally empowered by the Holy Spirit”)

    The foundation of biblical Christianity was destroyed by the rejection of Jesus’ words that you cannot be a follower of Christ without denying yourself.
    When being a follower of Jesus is radically redefined as it has anything goes AS LONG AS IT FULFILLS SELF AND EMPOWERS SELF!!!

    The foundations have been destroyed already people! When self love has replaced self denial as the modis operendi of popular Christianity you cannot whine and complain when every preacher appealing this gospel of self fulfillment and self empowerment comes in with it!

    Who is the ONLY REAL FOLLOWERS OF JESUS?
    ONLY THOSE WHO are willing to “deny himself and take up His cross and follow Me.”

  211. Barry Schmidt Apr 19th 2013

    Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. (Matthew 16:24 NASB)

    And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. (Luke 9:23 NASB)

    And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. (Mark 8:34 NASB)

    Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him. (John 12:24-26 NASB)

    There you have it IN ALL FOUR GOSPELS!
    Why is it in all four gospels?
    BECAUSE IT IS THE ABSOLUTE BOTTOM LINE CONDITION OF BEING A FOLLOWER OF JESUS!

    WE are freely forgiven, freely justified, freely adopted as sons and we are saved by grace alone through faith BUT NO ONE CAN BECOME A DSICIPLE OF JESUS WHO DOES NOT DENY HIMSELF DAILY!!!

  212. Barry Schmidt Apr 19th 2013

    These preachers of self empowerment and self fulfillment may be saved BUT THEY ARE NO FOLLOWERS AND DISCIPLES OF JESUS CHRIST!!!

  213. Barry Schmidt Apr 19th 2013

    PS- Have you denied yourself today? If you haven’t you are no longer following Jesus!

  214. and i will add………..
    if one is not following CHRIST, they are NOT SAVED.
    tis all delusion.
    FOR if one is not of CHRIST………………………
    He is of darkness and trapped in his sin still.
    Barry……………..THOSE men aint saved at all.
    they follow another JESUS, one who the flesh and lusts of men
    have created and shaped and formed to the image
    that they believe they are saved and still live for the flesh.
    ITS false. Let us KEEP the lambs in good doctrine.

  215. Vicki Lynn Apr 19th 2013

    I guess it is the Drum Beat style in RAP that gets the young people in.

  216. Vicki Lynn Apr 19th 2013

    What is the judgement of those speaking deception?

  217. And the battle rages on………
    we all who have CHRIST and have read them doctrines
    know what days we be in.
    WE were warned .
    JESUS says MY SHEEP know my voice
    and follow me.
    anothers they will NOT hear, but will flee from.
    THOSE proseperity men, aint saved.
    not even close. and since we know
    GOD gives the desires of our heart……..
    whether for those who love GOD
    or for those who reject him.
    all who flock to these men are getting the decpetion
    they wanted. LOVE THE LORD, thy GOD with all the heart.
    LOVe thy neighbor as thyself.
    TWO SIMPLE COMMANDMENTS.
    Let us NOT reason as men.
    BUT LIVE BY EVERY WORD of GOD
    and LOOK at those SCRIPS as our examples.
    HE called ALL out of egypt………………but HE wasnt pleased
    and destroyed all who had not faith
    destroyed those who were NOT content with the manna,
    IF one perished under the law, by two or three witnesses
    HOW MUCH WORSE a PUNISHMENT for those
    who have taken their eyes OFF THE TRUE BREAD
    and went a whoring BACK AFTER THE WORLD.
    MEN and all…………………WE GOTTA PREACH the BIBLE
    not OUR THOUGHTS…………….THE BIBLE.
    TOO many men have sat under once saved etc………..
    too many have sat under other false teachres………
    WE GOTTA begin anew as a LIL child
    pick up ONLY BIBLE………………
    and R E A D.
    cause even men here are brining dangerous doctrines.
    START ANEW. FIRST LOVE…………………START ANEW. amen.

  218. BEGIN ANEW………………READ ONLY BIBLE and pray for TRUTH

  219. FIRST LOVE………………….
    PICK UP BIBLE and put down all else
    GOD WILL REVEAL TRUTH.

  220. Be blessed , i love you all………….
    BUT heres the REST of our life CHALLENGE.
    PUT down all other reads………………
    ALL THE TRUTH one needs is IN THE BIBLE.
    AND GOD shall give thee UNDERSTANDING.
    FIRST LOVE………………
    Begin anew…………………
    I love you all. amen.

  221. NEVER listen to a man
    who has to stretch verses or omit others to TEACH their doctrine.
    THE main LIE is……………………
    when you read them doctrine………..and they say
    WELL YEAH if that WERE POSSIBLE.
    IF it werent PAUL WOULD NOT HAVE WARNED, or peter
    so often
    IT would Not have said…………LEST any MAN FAIL OF THE GRACE of GOD….
    this is why I keep saying………………chunk them teaches and preaches to the side………….JUST BEGIN anew
    READ FOR YOURSELF……………….stop listening to men bend scrips. GOD WILL reveal the TRUTH if our heart desires HIM.
    amen.

  222. MUCH change is coming
    AND IT AINT CHANGE I BELIEVE IN………….
    they gonna USE this……………..to TIGHTEN the NOOSE.
    fear and paoniah………….america uniting
    and running to rfid to stop terroism.
    IN 2008 builderbergers
    wrote and spoke of theys agenda……..
    it was to rfid the world…………………
    etc…………..etc……………
    Oh………………..i love you all and be blessed.
    call me an extremist……………or whatever
    but i aint taking the devils RFID ………in GODS TEMPLE.
    and i warrned all here today. DONT be decieved.
    THIS IS GODS TEMPLE……………….
    dont take any type of rfid or imprint on GODS temple.
    And he causes all both small and great………………
    poor and rich , free or slave to recieve a mark
    GUESS what THEY CANT BUY or SELL witihout it.
    and THIS IS IN THE PLANS. and I WARNED all readers
    DONT DO IT. amen.

  223. i know it was a TOPIC changer
    but i am led to warn all
    DONT MARK GODS TEMPLE
    which temple ye are………………DONT DO IT.
    DO NOT DO IT.
    OR DONT TAKE THAT NASTY THING.
    plain enough. amen.

  224. Vicki Lynn Apr 19th 2013

    I don’t know of any preacher 100 klm’s around here that doesn’t preach error.
    I just have to take Jesus with me every day.

  225. Jordan Shepherd Apr 20th 2013

    Much of what is being discussed here touches on the themes of discernment and the true Gospel and discipleship. I commend the article: “The 5 Keys to Discernment” by Andrew Strom, located under the tab, “Articles” located at http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/

    Andrew, I support these keys; they are spot on! Hope you don’t mind me affirming this and re-enforcing this teaching of yours …

    Some of the most basic keys to discernment that God has shown me are as follows:
    (1) Know your HOLY GOD intimately. (When you have seen His glory, His holiness and His love – by drawing close to Him in prayer – then you can usually see through any counterfeits because you know the “real thing” so well).
    (2) Know your Bible. It is very important to be able to spot teachings that are either extra-biblical or directly opposed to what the Scriptures teach. However, it is important to remember that the Scribes and Pharisees were extrememly learned in the Scriptures and yet they missed the very Messiah that was prophesied! So knowing the Bible is important – especially for doctrinal issues – but we need to be able to “discern the spirits” also.
    (3) Be a “lover of truth”. This is very crucial. Are you someone who will actually stand up for Truth – even against the crowd? Or do you remain silent even when you are convinced something is very wrong?
    (4) Purity of heart and Humility. Many deceptions only appeal to us because there is something inside us that “wants” to believe them. They are seductive because of darkness and wrong motives in our own lives. We must search our hearts and root these out.
    (5) The ‘inner witness’ of the Holy Spirit. We must learn to never over-ride this “still small voice”, as it will save us from deception again and again …

    Please read the full article by Andrew Strom

    Note – As well as the other 4, No. 5 is crucial and is the key that is often neglected. It is the key you will rarely found taught by “pastors” complete with real life examples.

  226. OneBody Apr 20th 2013

    J.Shepherd,
    Thanks for this link..good stuff.

  227. OneBody Apr 20th 2013

    J. Shepherd,
    This is a good article, but amid many articles. I was pressed on time searching for the specif article, so I simply did a Google search with -‘The 5 Keys to Discernment, Strom’ The search was very quick to lead me straight to the article. It’s lengthy with much more info than just the five keys. Thanks again.

  228. OneBody Apr 20th 2013

    There are so many good articles in some of the past posts. In skimming some of the older articles on Revival School, I found this from an article of Derek Prince. It’s a good grid with which to remember on forums.

    Derek Prince: Article – Protection From Deception
    [Chapter One of a book by Derek Prince – Nov 1996]. excerpt

    I will give you a list of 12 adjectives, all of which I believe cannot be applied to the Holy Spirit or to anything that is the product of the Holy Spirit. As I go through the list, I suggest you check mentally and see if you agree with me. Here, then, are words that would never apply to the Holy Spirit:

    self-exalting
    self-assertive
    degrading
    flippant
    rude
    sham
    vulgar
    indecent
    insensitive
    stupid
    silly
    degraded

  229. Jordan Shepherd Apr 20th 2013

    OneBody,
    I am happy that the article ministered to you. Thanks also to Andrew Strom (minister, moderator of this site, … ) who wrote it.

    On the witness of the Holy Spirit: When we get an alarm bell go off (New Christians particularly) regarding teaching or ministry or manifestation, we should not let this go unchecked, but talk it through with a trusted Christian in an attitude of humility and prayer.

    In time, with such accountability, we can work through discerning if it is from God. Ultimately, we ought to know as the Spirit leads us into all truth. What we do from there is a matter again for the leading of the Spirit as we are directed through the word of God.

    I read a simple guide from Derek Prince who once said of “manifestations”, ‘If it’s weird, ugly or strange, it’s not from God.’

    A question above was raised: Does God need rap, rock, etc. to communicate with us?

    No, God can use other means. However, since God is creative, He can use whatever means that will minister to people, particularly if it’s culturally appropriate. It’s when people become fixated on the vehicle of expression, elevating such as more superior and the only means by which God primarily communicates, we are misguided.

    My family and I attended a new Church a few weeks ago. After a good message, one gentle praise song. Then came another more “entertaining” song. I withdrew my family and we walked to the foyer. A leader approached us and I told them all was okay, that I wanted to discuss the message with my family.

    I later approached that leader and told them that the word was good and needed some reflection to take it all in. I further added that I find music intoxicating at times and that by getting absorbed in it would take away from that which the Holy Spirit was ministering through the word. Timing is important and knowing what the Holy Spirit is doing is important. All we wanted to do is to honour God’s word, meditate on it and apply it to our lives.

    “Great peace have they who love your law, for nothing shall make them stumble.” (Psalm 119:165)

    I think when people have to resort to art and music as forms of communication, they have profoundly pondered the depths of their message. Such people are noble minded. However, there will also be those who flippantly express their view through these forms without full consideration of impact or regard for truth. We must discern either way for ourselves that we may attain wisdom.

    “In Him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”(Colossians 2:3)

  230. Barry Schmidt Apr 21st 2013

    So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. (Luke 14:33 NASB)

    I am a pretty black and white guy but it seems to me this is a pretty black and white
    Statement made by Jesus. It says here to be Jesus disciple you can’t OWN ANYTHING! “All his possessions” in the Greek means “all his possession.”

    That means NO OWNERSHIP OF ANYTHING in order to be a disciple of Jesus.
    I believe one can be a child of God andmsheep of Jesus through simple faith alone in Jesus. Salvation is free for all BUT DISCIPLESHIP COSTS EVERYTHING YOU OWN!

    These preachers who are rich through peddling the word of God – according to Jesus own standard and definition- ARE NOT HIS DISCIPLES.

  231. Jda016 Apr 21st 2013

    So not one of us are disciples of Christ because we own computers?

    That’s a very strict interpretation of that Scripture Barry. Jesus also instructs his disciples to buy swords (Luke 22:35-38).

    He also instructs them to have a staff in Mark 6:8, although in the comparative verse of Matthew 10:9-10 he tells them not to have a staff.

    They obvious owned the single set of clothes they wore as well. I think the verse means that we are to hold nothing back from God. In other words, at whatever time He asks something of us, we must be ready and willing to give.

    Our heart can never love possessions or wealth more than God, because to do so would be idolatry. I believe that is the point of the verse, in my opinion.

    Blessings

    Jonathan

  232. I think your understanding is correct of that yielded-ness Jonathan – we’ve given it all to Him and then it is at His disposal when He wants us to give away, etc…

    God has given me promises that there is a day coming when He will provide for me without any “physical means of support”, i.e. working to earn a living…

    While He still wants me in the job I’m in which He specifically told me to take if I was offered “such and such” a salary when I came back to New Zealand after being away overseas He’s providing through that means but I’ve still needed to learn to trust Him to provide and not fretting or stressing about the security of my job, etc…

    That’s my testimony on that one to date… :-)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  233. fabakary Apr 21st 2013

    In forsaking our possession let us not also forget we are told forsake our own self, self no loner become our God; so to forsake ourselves does not mean we kill ourselves and cease to exist , but it mean we stop trusting on our own abilities , wisdom at a point that we will be willing to lay even our physical life for God sake .and the same goes with possession, we have to apply the same principle here ,it is first internal, if you stop trusting them in heart they will no longer become your God, and because of that you will be willing to give them away if your master instruct you for his purposes, because God has become your possession. A disciple listen to his teacher.There are extremist on those who teach prosperity but the truth is if a Christian did not trust in God as the supplier of his needs and wants , and trust on his material blessing such a Christian cannot please God. If God is not your prosperity your government or something else will become your prosperity. That is why you can hear professing Christian crying “oh they are increasing the taxes , they are doing this and that “ and they will even be willing to do some unchrist like acts claiming to fight for rights. This is not christainity. How can you bash people who preach prosperity , while you yourself trust on your material things and your government ? If the prosperity preacher trust God for his prosperity , I will rather listen to him than the one who trust his job, government etc for his prosperity. If you trust God for your need and wants, you will not go to court , or do this or that to fight for your rights .

  234. The attitude in rap songs seems to be of a spirit contrary to the Gospel. (Defiance an’ in yo’ face, bro’).
    I listened to Creflo Dollar this morning and he seems fairly much on the correct course.
    I might knock some things, but not his presentation of the Gospel.
    The real danger is from those who are effectively denying the essential core of the death and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus as the only way of salvation. (Emergent, Social, etc)
    Nobody is yet perfect.
    Especially those with big egos.
    Love you, John

  235. OneBody Apr 21st 2013

    J. Shepherd, re: It’s when people become fixated on the vehicle of expression, elevating such as more superior and the only means by which God primarily communicates, we are misguided.

    – I do agree with your surmising. I giggle at what God ‘vehicled through’ when he first drew me. I wouldn’t perhaps feel free reading “Jesus Christ Solid Rock” magazine today; although, the title wasn’t about rock music, it may have been designed to pull in the youth of my day. I appreciate your input here. :)
    ______________

    Barry S, re: So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. (Luke 14:33 NASB)

    – The Lord may also be addressing the issues of one man’s heart here. I feel pretty rich in comparison to others. He does know our willingness to yield all unto him, he also knows our unwillingness. He does sometimes use the willing heart yielded, to do wonderful ministry to those who are very needy. It sounds like he has challenged you deeply here! That is very exciting..God bless you as He leads on! :)
    _______________

    Jda016 & Andrew JH, re: I think the verse means that we are to hold nothing back from God. In other words, at whatever time He asks something of us, we must be ready and willing to give.

    – (yielded-ness)

    Yes, true contentment rests in recognizing the value of what God has already given to us. Our treasures truly are in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, and in within, as God works-out His Character in us. Thanks!
    _______________

    fabakary, re: and the same goes with possession, we have to apply the same principle here ,it is first internal, if you stop trusting them in heart they will no longer become your God, and because of that you will be willing to give them away if your master instruct you for his purposes, because God has become your possession.

    – I do agree here as well. Where our treasure is, there our heart is also. One of the things which concerns me about the prosperity gospel, is that, ever so subtly, conveys to people that God is a God of temporal values; placing a great priority on the things which are of no eternal value. I like to ask what people would do given a cart in a supermarket and 5 minutes to fill it free of charge. How many would fill it with koolaid and popcorn? I would go for the food of greatest value. These temporal treasures are nothing but koolaid and popcorn in comparison to what is of real value. We have the Word, more precious than gold, the likeness of Christ which is heaven’s very best. Why set our hearts on thing below, when we can strive to be like Jesus in all things. Thanks, fabakary, you brought out some really good thoughts.
    ______________

    JohnB, re:I listened to Creflo Dollar this morning and he seems fairly much on the correct course.

    – Not real familiar with his teaching. I believe the general WOF movement to have some serious pitfalls. We found ourselves in over our heads at one time. We ARE often too quick to major on the minors and minor on the majors, though. And, ‘big egos’ can certainly take some big falls as we believe ourselves better than others! 😀 Good thoughts, JohnB

  236. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    I don’t understand why there are only two options fabakery, in what you are saying. Why would you want to listen to any of them? If anyone is preaching a false gospel and false Christ then I would rather not listen to any of them. These ones are so far away from the humble simplicity of the gospel that Jesus and the apostles gave us, because the hope that the latter preached is not in this world at all. You seem to make a broad assumption about those who speak out and warn against false teachers/preachers…..but there are lots who do so without trusting in governments and courts and complaining about taxes, it’s not a case of either/or. The apostles warned and they were following the real Christ.

    The question I am wondering is how can anyone’s sympathies be more with the prosperity preachers rather than with those who seek to warn and protect the flock against them? Be very careful, the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it?………….wealth is also deceitful as the bible says……..

    I used to think that western prosperity was a sign of God’s favour and blessing on “Christian” nations, and maybe it was in the beginning up to a point, but now all I see is the tinselly, shiny, glitz and glam and superficiality of Babylon and how it is literally sucking the life out of everyone’s souls and making slavish slaves of them, and all the while they are so fooled and deceived to think they are the ones ‘on top of the world’ and looking down their noses at those who are not slaves but are free.

    Better the little that the righteous have than to dwell in the tents of the wicked. MUCH better!! Lord, give me neither too much nor too little, amen! I once tasted of luxury for just a few days on my honeymoon, we couldn’t afford a full week, and just as well because it was SUFFOCATING, that was from discernment, and I was so glad to get out of there and go camping for the rest of our time.

    2Cr 8:13 For [I mean] not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

    2Cr 8:14 But by an equality, [that] now at this time your abundance [may be a supply] for their want, that their abundance also may be [a supply] for your want: that there may be equality:

    2Cr 8:15 As it is written, He that [had gathered] much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered] little had no lack.

    1Cr 7:29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

    1Cr 7:30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep;

    1Cr 7:31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

  237. fabakary Apr 21st 2013

    Please watchful read carefully what I wrote I do not condemn any of those preachers who may teach prosperity as teaching a false Christ, that is not me. How can i label someone who teaches God prosperity by trusting in God as false because he preaches it when God himself is my prosperity ? I love it when I hear someone say I will not beg, fight etc because God is my prosperity . Such a man can lose all the material stuff he had and still laugh knowing God is the change of circumstances .I live around people who even feeding is a problem , so rampant , There is no hope from the government because the country is so poor with no natural resources, such need a God that that can take care of there needs as I myself has found that reality . why should I listen to a person who has the government as his trust , ,maybe without feeding problem . You are free to condemn whosoever you will and call them ministers of Satan, but don’t think I will join you or any other to conclude that such a man is false because you or any man say it. Unless God reveal any man to me as false , I am not interested in the opinion of any man. Why should I take such risk when every idle word men give will give an account at the day of judgment ?

  238. OneBody Apr 21st 2013

    Watchful, you are correct. Many good points have surfaced on this forum, as well as the prior (Replacement?? – Israel & the Church); the earlier thread now having regrettably closed. Doctrine seems to surface and reveal itself in these discussion boards. That is very good, if we are left with Biblical soundness rather than error and demise.

    I have a friend of 50 years. She has never been ‘deeply’ grounded in the Word, while professing the new birth. I don’t question her relationship with God, though have desired a solid Word foundation beneath her to further her growth in God. She recently experienced a very difficult circumstances; having lost her job and income, and found herself sitting in-front of the tv for hours listening to a new found “.. Bible teacher ?..” which I wasn’t at all, familiar with. We haven’t had tv for years to view this man’s teachings. I was very ignorant! I foolishly, never researched this man nor his beliefs, on her behalf. I so regret my laziness for I failed her as a faithful friend, who should have been vigilant in protecting her from the false doctrines of our day! I did notice some of the shared beliefs/assumptions/ideas/doctrines, to be very odd indeed. Who wants to judge wrongly, a teacher of the Word? Isn’t this what we’ve been taught? I kept silent to my concerns, and to my shame! I felt that any teaching from the ‘Bible teacher’ might at his critical time, be better than no teaching at all. On occasion she would share an idea or concept with me. Something just didn’t seem right in her new revelations! I very recently noticed these very same teachings woven thoroughly through the last article’s (Replacement?? – Israel & the Church) forum discussion board. A very deep indoctrination of years; being expressed, subtly and carefully teaching us all. Many began to react to the posts, trying to be loving with discretion and deference speaking the truth of Scripture without added surmisings. It was to no avail.
    When I recognized the posted teachings as those my friend was sharing with me, I asked the person posting them, if the origin of teaching was the source below (Arnold Murray). I was bypassed and reprimanded for my inquiry. – As all those having requested teaching origins before me. Strong deceptions in “innocent opinions” ? I feel many reacted to the false doctrines, though were unable to successfully speak without verbal repercussions and conflict within God’s Ranks. We need to recognize and resist these false teachings and deceptions while not hating any who have fallen to them.

    A FEW OF THESE FALSE IDEAS BEING: this list is extensive in the link below

    – Murray teaches, Eve and Adam had sex with Satan; Satan being the fruit, the tree, and the snake, in that story. Eve got pregnant with Satan’s son and with Adam’s son. Cain and Abel were twins; but Cain was Satan’s son. (Tape #436) I have heard from Murray’s followers that everyone knows that Cain and Abel were from two different fathers from Eve, as if this is common knowledge and a Biblical teaching. This they call fraternal twins; Cain is from the Serpent (Satan), and Abel from Adam. but you can only get this teaching from Murray, it is an exclusive scoop

    – Another point to consider in the arguments for this unique doctrine is the DNA of the serpent, which does not line up with that of a Human and cannot be used to fertilize a human egg.

    Are We Pre-existent Spirits Before Coming to Earth
    – Murray and his followers believe that humans existed prior to living on earth. I have been told by some of those who formerly listened to his teachings that to be born again meant to be physically born on earth.
    The Shepherd Chapel divides history up into three earth ages: Gen.1:1 where we first had the fall of Satan causing incredible destruction and waste. We pre-existed the earthly existence in soul bodies. Those pre-existent ones who rebelled against Lucifer and sided with God are called the elect.

    – Murray teaches, in regard to Genesis 1:26, that God “spoke to the Elohim, meaning God and his children, let us make that man in our image, which is to say make it look in likeness that we are. Do you appear as your soul appeared in the world that was…I told you, that God said, ‘In our image, our likeness,’ the Elohim were standing there, they were from before.” (Tape #146) “We were always with [God] until you were born into this earth.” ( Tape #436)

    http://www.letusreason.org/poptea4.htm

    Our Dearest Brother, Andrew Strom,
    We are all indebted to you. You faithfully feed us from the Word, a table to nurture us into His Likeness. Again, we all thankyou! Please consider these teachings which have both, confused and stumbled, as detrimental to our maturity in Christ and a unity in the faith. God bless you in your caring for the Body until He returns.

    ROMANS 12:1-18
    1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
    2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
    3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
    4 For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,
    5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
    6 Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;
    7 if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;
    8 or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
    9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
    10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;
    11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,
    13 contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.
    14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
    15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.
    17 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
    18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

  239. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    fabakery, but we are not talking here about those who teach to trust in God for His provision, no indeed, because in that case I would agree with you….but we are only talking about those who pervert the truth…and that usually for their own gain, because we can see that the “prosperity gospel” only works for those teachers, making them rich, off the backs of their poor followers….and it’s not just the “prosperity” angle, there is much more to it than that, they have departed from the simplicity of Christ, and they have become personality cults and spiritual celebrities, instead of following Jesus. What they are doing and talking about doesn’t even vaguely resemble what we were given in the new testament. Oh clearly it is from ‘Babylon’, the world, I am surprised you do not see it.

  240. fabakary Apr 21st 2013

    Watchful I see a lot of mixture in so many places, in persons , even within in me, doctrinally there is no man or teacher on earth I agree with hundred percent, some because it has do not with immaturity I have not grown to that measure to agree or disagree , because to agree with a man will mean you first understand what he is relating with, a unique teacher like Austin sparks is an example, who will touch areas which you will only understand by relating with it in practical live challenges . But others I see something wrong the spirit witness to me that the concepts is false , so i have to disagree with such concepts. One may be of God and still have a wrong concepts or view of the ways of God , and there so much of it in the scripture , see the life of the apostles yet they were still servant of God, the false doctrine need to be challenge , if it is indeed a false doctrine . But there are those that are servants of Satan , they can have a knowledge of scripture , with signs etc but unless God revealed to one who is who , you are bound to err, and no man will be free from the terror of carnal words and accusations in the Judgment to come. I have choose to rely of God spirit , it is safer to me, than to just conclude by the opinion of men .

  241. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    OneBody, there is much on my heart, but haven’t been given the words and wisdom to express it up to now, and until/unless that happens, I don’t want to cause any precious soul to stumble by my knowledge, because then it would only prove that I don’t yet know as I ought, because I don’t always! Hope that makes sense…..it’s just hard to put into words all that is on my heart, but will just wait on the Lord and trust in Him to lead us into all truth.

  242. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    fabakery, good to go by God’s Spirit, me too. Here I will paste something that I said earlier, maybe it will help:

    “Those teachers are not ones who have just been mistaken or stumbled here or there, isn’t this more like one huge uninterrupted and ongoing ‘mistake’ of many years duration, and only maybe stumbling into the truth here or there.”

    Again, I am concerned when there is more sympathy for those who are clearly leading many astray, than there is for those who are just doing their best to warn against them, and am wondering why that is. The things that are being discussed are not coming from a critical spirit or any wrong attitude, just sincere concern for what is clearly happening. If you don’t see these teachings as being so bad, then in my opinion maybe you are one who might benefit from the warnings.

  243. fabakary Apr 21st 2013

    Watchful wrote:”If you don’t see these teachings as being so bad, then in my opinion maybe you are one who might benefit from the warnings. ”
    Thank you watchful, for the exchanges. Stay blessed

  244. OneBody Apr 21st 2013

    :) watchful, makes alot of sense to me! It is so important to see the error in the way (teaching), while not the error as ‘being the man’ who teaches. Sometimes it is hard to separate them. We have to point out if a man is ‘changing the face of, or character of God as revealed in the Word.’ How slippery a slope we walk at times. None of us are 100% Christlike in all things; often misrepresenting Him in our lack. Are we teaching multitudes, generations? Sobering that we might consider the weight of the teachings embraced. God bless you.

    Acts19:8-12 But some grew obstinate in unbelief and spoke evil of the new faith before all the congregation. So Paul left them, and, taking with him those who were disciples, held discussions daily in Tyrannus’s lecture-hall.

    Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary-
    When arguments and persuasions only harden men in unbelief and blasphemy, we must separate ourselves and others from such unholy company. God was pleased to confirm the teaching of these holy men of old, that if their hearers believed them not, they might believe the works.

  245. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    The Lord bless you fabakery, and watch over us all.

  246. Intercessor Apr 21st 2013

    Amen.

    Thank you Father for your love.

    Thank you for watching over us all.

    Your people love you and bless You.

  247. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    OneBody, from what I can see most of us seem to walk through error and deception somewhere along the way, I know I have, or maybe it is especially true of recent times. In any case, when we wait for the Holy Spirit’s leading and flow, etc, of course that is always the best way to be helpful and watch each other’s backs in these perilous days. He is the only one who knows what each of us needs, and has the ability to do anything about it! And I think too that the Lord distinguishes between those who have a platform and a following, authority, as opposed to those who are only sharing.

  248. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    Amen, amen Intercessor….How we bless you and praise you oh Lord our God…so gracious and faithful are you, thank you Holy Father, where would we be without you.

  249. Intercessor Apr 21st 2013

    We love you Lord… oh, we love love you

    We love you Jesus :,)

    Thank you for being the author and the finisher of our faith

    Thank you for saving us Good Shepherd. Thank you for keeping us. Thank you so much

    Oh Holy Spirit, we surrender our will to yours… possess us… make us ready to meet our Saviour… Help us, dear helper.

    Oh our God, hear your people. Keep us from falling. We choose You.

    Thank you for Your discernment. thank you for leading us out and into green pastures, our bread of life.

    There is no greater joy than feeling close to You… your heart, your tears, your vision… only what ministers to you dear Jesus…

    Whether you’re saying rebuke, or love… grieve, or shout in jubilation… we thank you that we have the precious Holy Spirit who you sent Father, to lead us according to your heart.

    Oh hallelelujah :,) One day we will see you and be able to thank you face to face for your awesome provision.

    For now, Father please help us to yield to the precious Holy Spirit’s leading. Please show us clearly when He’s leading, and not to desensitise ourselves to His voice in the little things.

    Thank you for being in the little things… they mean so much to you. I’m so sorry we haven’t respected that .

    Sincerely,

    Varienne

  250. Thank You Jesus, I agree with my sister Varienne, Help us to hear You in all things and honour You in all things as You enable us without striving but by entering into Your rest, Praise You Jesus… :-)

  251. Intercessor Apr 21st 2013

    :,)

  252. I had an amazing experience last night when I was praying…

    I suddenly realised that who affirms Jesus? Jesus has been through all this stuff for us but who affirms Him? So I wrapped my arms around Jesus – imagining Him to be right there – and gave Him a big hug and told Him how well He did to complete everything which the Father set before Him – I affirmed Him – and I really sensed the Pleasure of God – the Presence of God was in my room – my prayer room – but I really sensed His Pleasure – we really need to affirm Jesus – He is affirming us all the time…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  253. watchful Apr 21st 2013

    ….my sister is right Lord, the little things…forgive Father and help us relinquish those little things…..

    ..and Lord I pray that you will come into any breaches in the lives of your dear children, to heal and to bind up, so that the enemy can take advantage no longer, Father because you know our heart is to serve you better, thank you Lord because you have said if we ask anything in your name that we shall have it. How we praise you and bless you our mighty God and Father…

  254. Intercessor Apr 21st 2013

    Oh watchful, the little thing for you was in blessing Fabakery… and in praying for God to watch over us…

    A small thing in your eyes, yet it spilled out of your heart…

    For others, it might be to not choose the biggest piece of cake while alone in the kitchen…

    And then others, to deny themselves any glory in sharing a revelation….

    Humility… the cross… whatever… it is choosing Christ.

    Without trying, that means that you are surrendered to Christ’s death.

    I pray that you would surrender all the areas you are trying in to Him, and that He would be your resurrection….That He will turn all your sorrow into joy. All your weakness into His strength…

    And be your very great reward.

    With love

  255. And the amazing thing about not striving is that with Paul we don’t introspect ourselves to try and figure out our motives because the One who examines us is the Lord… :-)

  256. There is no condemnation for those who are in the Lord… :-)

  257. But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God. (1 Corinthians 4:3-5 NASB)

  258. Intercessor Apr 22nd 2013

    Dear Andrew,

    Chill.

    You are not in a court here.

    My heart is for watchful, and indeed all who are hurting here.

  259. When we understand that we don’t need to examine ourselves but that the Lord is the One looking at the remains of “sin which dwells in me” and that He through His Holy Spirit is removing it through the revelation of His truth in our innermost being then we are truly “free indeed”… :-)

    Waiting on the Lord means just this… this is the place of rest… :-)

  260. All the things which we do for the Lord – out of gratitude for the Lord and what He has done for us – don’t bring us peace…

    They are an extension of our appreciation of the revelation which He has brought us…

    Our understanding of what He has freely given us is what brings us rest and peace…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  261. Andrew, it is more than our understanding, it is the inner knowing that comes to us from a personal relationship with Him.

    We are all parts of His Body, and as such will all have different aspects of him revealed to us according to His plans and purposes for us.

    The way that Christ leads us to become overcomer’s and effective servants for Him will vary from one part of His body to another.

    Don’t fall into the trap of defending and promoting only the insights that you have personally at the expense of seeing , recognizing and understanding other parts of His body , and the way He leads them.

    In His love

    Kevin

  262. watchful Apr 22nd 2013

    …thank you Varienne, and Andrew J, for your love and care…I pray for us all, for the Lord to meet the needs of every heart…may He bless you abundantly. :o)

  263. I love you Kevin and I honestly believe what you say in your first paragraph above quoted below in italics is what I’m saying – unless I’m misunderstanding you… :-)

    it is the inner knowing that comes to us from a personal relationship with Him.

    Revelation from the Holy Spirit brings understanding…

    Understanding brings freedom – it brings about our response of love towards the Lord – from a place of peace not to gain a place of peace…

    The unfolding of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple. (Psalm 119:130 NASB)

    Am I misunderstanding you or are we in fact in agreement on this? :-)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  264. We are united , bought together in His body as many different parts.

    What unites us is Him, the true risen and ruling , living Lord Jesus Christ.

    When we agree that we worship and follow the one true living, risen Lord Jesus Christ , we have unity and fellowship.

    Personal insights and the way Christ reveals things to us using the scriptures will vary significantly between those who worship and follow the one true living God.

    Debating these differences or defending our own personal insights at the expense of recognizing other different parts of His body , only brings division and confusion.

    Most of the personal insights we each receive are for our own use and growth and not necessarily meant to be preached to others.

  265. Love you watchful, thank you for this, I’m sorry we’ve clashed in the past but I guess its necessary in our walk with Him to clash sometimes with those we love – our brothers and sisters in the Lord, Love to you in the Lord, Andrew (Bind Us Together Lord)… :-)

  266. Andrew, my comment to you above was not relating only to what you said above, and was not in relationship to the difference between the use of the words understanding and knowing, it was in relationship to the debate and defensiveness that has being played out here recently between what I consider from the outside to be different parts of the same body.

    In His love

    Kevin

  267. Hi Kevin,

    I believe that what “has being played out here recently” has been necessary to establish a “beachhead” of truth here from which we can grow in Him…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  268. Regarding the topic , we have being warned about false Christ’s and false teachers .

    Further to what I posted above , it is important to distinguish between those who know the one true living Lord Jesus Christ, and are simply teaching in error from there own deception,,,,

    ,,,and those who follow and worship a different Jesus , a different spirit , who are false teachers who come to deceive .

    2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
    2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

    Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

  269. Hi Andrew,

    my post above is not directed at you

  270. Hi Andrew,

    Growth in Him for many starts with the revelation of bringing every thought captive and pulling down every vain imagination , having their minds renewed and transformed and bought under the authority of Christ.

    For many this is a necessary path in Christ , otherwise according to the beatitudes of Matt 5, they would be cutting their heads off!

    So all I’m saying is that you have your personal revelation about what is important for your growth at this time in Him, so don’t let that blind you to what Christ has shown others for their growth in Him at this time.

    In His love

    Kevin

  271. Hi Andrew,

    my post above is not directed at you

    No worries man, Love you brother… :-)

  272. To each and all………….
    IF our new revelation or understanding
    EVER CONTRADICTS what has been written.
    ITS of satan.
    WAY too many spirits and new understadnings that keep
    leading many into error.
    FELT LED TO WARN ALL OF THIS.
    so TEST ALL with what is written
    and not what ya mind might be a saying, and it feeling right.
    NO ………..IF IT DONT PASS THE TRUTH(bible)
    then i shun it far , far , far away and bodly refuse to hear it.
    I SUGGEST we all JUST READ THE BIBLE.
    too many THINKERS and not enough TRUTHERS.
    Be blessed and let us sing a PRAISE UNTO THE LORD tonight.
    AMEN

  273. watchful Apr 22nd 2013

    I think you are making a very good observation Kevin, I had been realizing much the same things too recently. I have made the mistake in the past of thinking that everybody needs my revelation, just because it was revelation. When in fact more often than not, it was only me that needed it, and it was God’s gift to me personally for whatever reason, at the time.

  274. A song of praise unto the LORD.
    THE LORD is worthy of all praise
    and anothers voice i shall not hear
    HIS truth , his word shall light the way
    Not mens vain thoughts, or traditions
    SO praise the LORD tonight, and sing a song
    with much thanksgiving, sing , sing , sing unto the LORD
    and TEST, test , test all you hear.
    All of you are loved. Let us focus on the GOSPLE
    focus on the sermon on the mount
    on the warnings he gave the churches in revelations
    and just ensure we walk and live by HIS SAYINGS
    not mens thoughts……………AMEN.
    IF GODS way of working on a person contradicts what has been written…………..IF GOD doing a new thing is contradicting
    what JESUS said………………THE DEVILS DOING IT, NOT GOD.
    just be warned. I am heavily worried that many
    just dont test all they hear against what JESUS said .
    ANd i GOTTA WARN ……………..dont build your house on sand
    KEEP HIS SAYINGS and be upon the ROCK. amen.

  275. Amen watchful, and often our personal revelation is incomplete and being used to simply lead us more into the truth of who Lord Jesus Christ really is.

    If we make the mistake of sharing incomplete personal revelation , it can often lead to conflict , and we could end up missing what Christ was trying to show us personally.

  276. Any revelation which comes from God is the truth and a revelation of the truth – I don’t personally believe in “personal revelation” as all things need to come out into the light…

    There are some things which God tells me and hasn’t given me a freedom to share with others but those are more with respect to His call on my life or prophetic type things which pertain to events yet to come to pass – or maybe not come to pass depending on how we respond in prayer…

    Again, as I believe our brother Randall is sharing, any revelation which we do get – which is truly from the Lord – will be confirmed via scripture and also via His Peace which passes understanding – understanding here being used to mean “what we can figure out”… :-)

    For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:15-23 NASB)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  277. Amen randall , that all revelation from the true living God will not contradict what is written in His word.

  278. Andrew, in my walk I have seen personal revelation as an extension of His grace and mercy , and the way He has led many out of spiritual bondage who would have rejected the traditional way of presenting biblical truth.

    Praise our Lord Jesus Christ, that He knows how to reach us all in the place we are at.

  279. I hear you brother – you’re defining “personal revelation” as what the Lord has used to “get through to you” – which might not really work to “get through to someone else” who hasn’t had the same life experience as you but you’re not using “personal revelation” to mean that you can’t share that testimony with anyone else because it’s just between you and Him (is that right?)… :-)

  280. Hi Andrew, I believe it just comes down to always asking Christ what we are to share and to whom.

    Often our personal testimony can be really helpful to others who can relate to it.

    Sometimes we can make the mistake of preaching to others what was meant for us.

    The fruit of urgency/impatience or defensiveness is the fruit of self endevour.

    Even the preaching of gospel requires knowing where to be and whom to be speaking to e.g when Paul was prevented from going into Asia minor.

  281. The fruit of urgency/impatience or defensiveness is the fruit of self endevour.

    Have you sensed that fruit “coming out of me” recently Kevin? If you have I will take that before the Lord…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  282. Hi Andrew, with you personally it is more defending the truth at times , that there is no condemnation in Christ.

    This has being important for you personally to understand, however others may be more focused on the renewing of their minds as this is important for them, and it would be a mistake to be defending the truth you know , at the expense of understanding what our Lord Jesus Christ has given others to understand for their growth in Him.

    In His love

    Kevin

  283. I’m all for growth Kevin but until the foundation of our acceptance in Christ is understood there cannot be any renewing of the mind… :-)

  284. and walking as an overcomer in the reality of Lord Jesus Christ , does not simply come about from being born again, and understanding the foundations of Christ, for if it did all born again believers would be walking as the early church did.

  285. Praise our Lord Jesus Christ, that He knows how to reach us all in the place we are at and lead us on into maturity in Him.

  286. and walking as an overcomer in the reality of Lord Jesus Christ , does not simply come about from being born again, and understanding the foundations of Christ, for if it did all born again believers would be walking as the early church did.

    Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. (1 John 5:1-12 NASB)

  287. Once we know what God has freely given us then we begin to walk as overcomers… :-)

  288. Andrew, we can all quote parts of the bible to affirm the revelation we have from Lord Jesus Christ.

    The question is ; does this help in bringing the body together ? and in understanding other parts of His body that are different from who we are in Christ ?

    The divisions and conflict within Christianity are what is used to keep western Christianity so dis empowered.

  289. There’s only one way to bring the Body together Kevin and that is in the truth… :-)

    I have lived what I am sharing and I have observed other people living what they are sharing…

    And I know from personal experience and my experience of being around other people that there is only one way which works…

    You can’t build something lasting on a faulty foundation…

    If we don’t know our identity in Christ and our acceptance in Christ then we cannot build…

    We just go round and round and round in circles…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  290. That is what I am contending for… :-)

  291. Andrew, do you think I don’t understand the importance of the one true foundation ?

  292. If you understand what I am saying about the importance of understanding our identity and acceptance in Christ before we can build anything in our lives of a permanent nature (that will remain) Kevin then why haven’t you just said, “Amen brother, I’m contending for this with you (with a smiley face after it)”?

  293. Andrew it is because the way our Lord Jesus Christ uses me to reach people for Him , and share the foundational truths of who He is with them, is very different to how you approach people and engage with them.

    This reflects the difference between you and I and who we are in Christ.

    You can be doctrinally correct , however the way that truth is presented can be the difference between it being received or rejected.

    It is only by His spirit that His body will be bought together.

    Truth in separation from His spirit is only half of the equation.

    We can’t reach anyone for Christ unless His spirit is calling them at the time He has us present His truth.

    In His love

    Kevin

  294. Anyway Andrew , we are way off topic here, and this isn’t a forum , so we can take this up another time.

  295. I really felt as I was driving home from work tonight that there’s one other thing which I am contending for also Kevin and that is our inheritance…

    Our identity, our acceptance and our inheritance in Christ… :-)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  296. Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:1-14 NASB)

  297. Andrew, if you feel to contend for “Our identity, our acceptance and our inheritance in Christ…” fair enough.

    What I am saying is that all these foundational truths of our Lord Jesus Christ have always being under attack , and the only people we will contend with over these matters are other believers.

    No one will receive any truth simply by contention , or words from others.
    People need to receive an insight of the truth by the spirit in order to receive it and then they will see the truth in the written word.

    Personally I question to what extent we are called to contend/defend these truths amongst believers, unless we are doing this for believers that we have won for Christ ,, for there is a fine line between contending and contention/division , and we won’t be thanked by our Lord Jesus Christ for causing divisions in His body , or upsetting someones faith.

    Andrew , it is not important that we agree here.

    The important work is when we are used by our Lord to reach non believers , when are not so much contending with them, rather we are leading them unto Him.

    In His love

    Kevin

  298. Jude 1:3
    Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

  299. watchful Apr 22nd 2013

    Contending seems to be in regards to the whole package of the true gospel, when someone tries to bring in a false gospel and false Christ. See the context of the verse that GaryB brought , Jude 1:3,4.

    I’m sure we don’t need to “contend” for every jot and tittle, goodness me, or there would be no end to nasty arguments and divisions and splitting of hairs! We are hopefully not trying to replace the Holy Spirit in anyone’s life. We are to FOLLOW Him, not try to BE Him.

    Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for THE FAITH which was once delivered unto the saints.

    Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

  300. Barry Schmidt Apr 22nd 2013

    I get SOOOO impatient with the level of maturity that makes me explain every little nuance. There was a time when one could make a statement as I did and even the babes in Christ would get what I was saying.

    I interpret – “whoever does not give up all his own possession CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE” and my statement, ” a disciple of Jesus CAN’T OWN ANYTHING” in the same way A W Tozer in his book “The Pursuit of God” describes “The Blessedness of Possessing Nothing”.
    Owning NOTHING as the foundation of being a disciple of Jesus doesn’t mean that you do not hold the title of ownership on anything. It means you do not take ownership of anything IN YOUR HEART. It means your heart is absolutely free of the love of money, the worship of Mammon, the desire for more, the mental pursuit of MORE, the fear of losing what you have and the focus on how you can get your greedy hands on more!!!!

    Jesus always addressed the heart when he spoke words- not merely the outward possession of things.
    The question remains:
    How can someone whose has as EVEN A MINUTE PART motive for serving God and following Jesus MAKING AND AQUIRING MORE MONEY.

    Everything these prosperity preachers say WREEKS OF THIS MOTIVE:
    Give so you can get MORE!
    Serve Jesus so you can get MORE!
    Be faithful so you can get MORE!

    It is the gospel of MORE! That Jesus was referring to when he said, ” NO ONE can be My disciple who does not give up ALL HIS POSSESSIONS.”

    And don’t try to tell me 99.9% of us men who are rich got their without WANTING MORE much of the time!

  301. Barry Schmidt Apr 22nd 2013

    I dare any preacher or confessed follower of Jesus on judgement day to try to quote God the verse that teaches that it is not MONEY that is a sin IT IS THE LOVE OF MONEY THAT IS A SIN- when they have spent much of their lives acquiring MORE MONEY THAN THEY CURRENTLY HAVE!

    “Godliness with CONTENTMENT is not only great gain. It is ESSENTAIL to being a FOLLOWER of Jesus. Jesus was sold out for money. We become a Judas each and every day that we spend thinking about making more money or worrying about losing what we have.

    Jesus said, “you cannot serve BOTH GOD AND MAMMON” ( Mammon is the god of POSSESSIONS of any and every kind including money)
    “Either you will HATE the ONE and love the other. Or you will DESPISE THE one and CHERISH the OTHER.”

    You cannot serve BOTH- it is this BOTHness THAT IS KILLING THE DISCIPLESHIP OF VIRTUALLY EVERY so called follower of Jesus in the modern church today.
    But thanks be to God , ” I have reserved for Myself a remnant who have. To bowed the knee to Mamon”
    Anyone want to REALLY follow Jesus? then you must GIVE UP ALL YOUR POSSESSIONS FROM YOUR HEART!

  302. Barry Schmidt Apr 22nd 2013

    How do we KNOW when we have done as Jesus said and “give up ALL OUR POSSESSIONS” thus becoming qualified to follow Jesus?
    1. When in my heart I am CONTENT with what I have and am NO LONGER focused upon acquiring MORE.

    2. When I have NO FEAR OR ANXIETY in my heart over losing what I have.
    No one fears or worries about Jesus losing some of His money- They only worry and fear over losing THEIR OWN money. Anxiety is the sure sign I have not GIVEN UP ALL MY POSSESSIONS.

    An anxious Christian is NOT A DISCIPLE OF JESUS!

  303. Barry Schmidt Apr 22nd 2013

    Forgive me this one last word: so Andrew is not personally attacking these preachers of Mammon as many are accusing him of. HE is exposing and attacking THEIR TEACHING AND THEIR BELIEF STRUCTURES.

    If no one stands up and courageously and faithfully exposes the false TEACHINGS AND BELIEFS regarding the love of money THEN every unsuspecting sheep of Jesus WILL ADOPT THE LOVE OF MAMMON as NORMAL Christianity.

    If under the banner of “judge not” or ” touch not My anointed” us under shepherds of Jesus SAY NOTHING – then the wolves will come in a devour the flock-because the flock will by default BELIEVE THE LIES. What we BELIEVE is the foundation of everything. Sew a false belief reap a mind set. sew a mind set reap a lifestyle. sew a lifestyle REAP A DESTINY!

    What will we Shepherds of the flock say to Jesus when he holds us accountable for the blood of men who believed the lie that godliness is a means of acquiring MORE MONEY????

  304. BARRY……………..AMEN you GOT IT……………
    its when we are CONTENT………………
    when all we desire is GOD. not things, not more.
    when we have NO FEAR of losing anyting
    when we have no desire of gaining anything material.
    THAT IS ALL TRUTH BARRY……………
    YOU would get three thumbs up, but i only have TWO.
    YOU GOT THIS RIGHT ON……………..RIGHT ON.
    ITS when in our heart……………we know we dont worry about our material need, but we KNOW that even in the loss of all things
    STILL WE CAN DO ALL IN CHRIST. paul and them knew the loss of all things, sufferings, beatings, and even death.
    YET in all these paul had learned to be content.
    HE even once said i would RATHER GLORY in mine infirmites
    that the POWER of CHRIST be upon me.
    BARRY………………..you got godliness with contentment right ON.
    SPOT on. Very few have come to this as yet.
    YET in the first love……………..its already in us.
    even in mine first day……………i never worried about nothing
    JUST wanted to know the truth and was HUNGRY for it.
    we must come back to the FIRST LOVE.
    where all we seek is GOD, his truth , and place the welfare of others above our own selves, in all things.
    THIS is the abundant life JESUS spoke of……….
    for it sets on free. ALL HOPE will be above……………when all afffections are above……………..then a peace ensues that passes all ………………for no man can truly comprhened how a man can have joy , peace, rejoicing, when they have no deisre for things seen, nor worry in the loss of all things, but rather rejoice in all times. THIS the world cannot recieve, nor the natural mind of man. THIS is SPIRITUAL………………..and must be recieved in vesssels born again, of the spirit and water.
    THUS let all learn to be content in all times
    good or bad, set all affections above………….and be focused on the reward at the END OF OUR FAITH
    and you will see how godlilness is profitable even in this life.
    FOR YOU WILL HAVE JOY……………………..and PEACE
    which nothing seen will ever give……………ONLY GOD can give
    and HE is invisible………………yet is OUR FAITH…………..
    amen.

  305. I would only say this…………………IF riches do increase
    SET NOT YOUR HEART UPON THEM
    why store up, what good is in that………
    if only for the beholding of the eyes………
    BUT GIVE IT TO THE POOR…………………..
    there are many who really do lack, and we are GODS Husbandry, his house………………let NONE lack in the HOUSE of GOD.
    i speak of food and clothes………….many lack that.
    IF we see a brother or sister in need and have it , and dont give,
    then the LOVE OF GOD aint in us……..
    and the end of that is death. GIVE and find the blessings of giving. expecting nothing……………………and GREAT shall your reward be in heaven. HAVE the TREASURES above
    and where your treasure is……………………know there is your heart.
    JESUS FULLFILLED THE LAW………………as does HIS WORDS
    to all how live by them. FOR the LOVE of GOD is shed abraod upon hearts by the HOLY GHOST.
    have good works, let the light of Christ shine, do unto others as you would have done unto you.
    CLOSE an eye to the poor……………………and it happens to YOU.
    FORGIVE and you will be forgiven.
    FORGIVE NOT and your FATHER will NOT forgive your trespasses. the law fullfilled in LOVE.
    two COMMANDMENTS does it all. JESUS sermon on the mount is a GEM so prescioius and to live it is LIFE ABUNDANT………
    even in the losss of all things…………
    FOR TO KNOW of HIM, to know of his salvation…………..
    to JOY in that……………………is JOY, and a peace ensues
    that no circumstance will ever be able to take away from you.
    EVEN in prisons you will be able to rejoice……..
    LEARN of HIM……………………SEEK , ASK , and KNOCK
    SEEK him with the whole heart.
    ASK……………..for the SPIRIT, for how much more shall your heavenly Father give the SPIRIT to those who ask him.
    KNOCK…………………..all who knock , the DOOR shall be opened.
    ALL AFFECTIONS ABOVE…………………..amen.

  306. I’m sure we don’t need to “contend” for every jot and tittle, goodness me, or there would be no end to nasty arguments and divisions and splitting of hairs! We are hopefully not trying to replace the Holy Spirit in anyone’s life. We are to FOLLOW Him, not try to BE Him …but do walk as did HE.

    CONTEND FOR THE TRUE FAITH of the gosple.
    PREACH and tell the world the good news
    and preach Christ and him crucified.
    Read the bible daily, learn of wisdom, knowledge, understanding.
    Walk as did HE,
    THe servant is not above his master. IT IS GOOD thus if the servant be AS HIS MASTER.
    and HOW DID JESUS walk while in FLESH
    is HOW we should walk while in our bodies.
    LOWLY and meek, and seeking the welfare of OTHERS
    and do all to the GLORY OF GOD.
    DO all as unto GOD, do it so as for HIM to get the prasie, worship , the GLORY , not for your own personal recoginition(glory)
    keep the heart pure………………do all as unto GOD.
    Let nothing be done through strife or vain glory(recognition from men) Those apostels preached the TRUE GOSPLE
    its why i say read what they wrote, what Christ said
    and read the HOLY SCRIPS for our examples.
    On how we ought walk , instuction in righteousness,
    those scrips will make one wise unto salvation through faith in CHRIST. but if our faith or trust be in anything else………
    understanding, knowledge, wisdom, etc…….will NOT COME.
    only a reasoning that the carnal mind will come.
    TRUST and LIVE BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.
    and this can be summed up in two commandments.
    amen.

  307. Remember there are times when children must be rebuked, warned etc. DO NOT FAIL in this.
    warn any and all who are in sin, GET OUT.
    save some with compassion, making a difference
    others with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
    read the warnings to the churches in revelations.
    and realize that all whom GOD loves he will chasten and scourge.
    tis for our well being,
    Understand this is the righteous judgment of GOD, that we are appointed to suffer for the kingdom. second thess…
    understand that when we are judged , we are chastened of GOD, so that we are NOT condemened with the rest of the world
    corithians, i think chapter eleven .
    Read in philipains, where it says not only is it given unto us to BELIEVE IN HIM, but also to SUFFER for his name sake.
    rememeber JESUS WORDS…………….
    BLESSED are you when men shall revile you, speak evil of you, for my names sake………….REJOICE and LEAP in that day.
    remember tis far greater a blessing to have been corrected, and chastened in this life, so that our feet slip not,
    than to be PUNISHED at the second death..
    FOCUS on the reward at the END of our faith
    the GRACE to be revealed as HIS COMING
    and GROW IN GRACE amen.
    I say this for it is TRUTH, and to warn us all
    PERSECTUIONS are coming for the church……..
    already as i speak , plans are being made , laws passed,
    which the few cannot FOLLOW. and thus shall be persecuted.
    even unto death………………..
    THE WORLD is very TIRED of any type of fundamental religion,
    any type who says HIS way is the ONLY WAY
    they are fast growing very hateful and fearful of fundamental
    beliefes. AND in short time…………………any kind of fundamentalism, whether bible will be seen as a disease of the mind. and they will try and rid us of this world.
    the true believers are being put into this dangerous group, wherein the world will see no difference between us
    and men who would kill in the name of thier god.
    ITS HAPPENING. THROUGH media, through
    some churches, through physcology, through the education system. HUMANISM , new age is the religion of the day.
    FOR it accepts all still in sin, and claims all are saved.
    ANY who have children………………beware what they are being tuaght even as i speak. We must endure the soon hardships that are too come upon us…………..wihtout murmurings,
    but patiently. and if a heart is set on our surrounds, or circumstances………..that heart WILL FAIL.
    SET the heart ONLY UPON GOD. ame.

  308. fabakary Apr 22nd 2013

    warning Warning about what ,that God can provide the need and wants of men supernaturally ? After I an eye witness of the many infallible supernatural provisions of God ?
    Oh I can never forget that glorious day, when all of our money finished because mostly given out , there was no money any where for feeding , no hope from any man. Oh it was painful, fretful , but suddenly the revelation shown in my heart , about MY HELP COMES FROM God , Immediately I went and called for an urgent meeting with my brothers and share with them what was revealed to them , we by faith make an agreement NOT only are we not going to beg money from and man BUT we will not explain our problem to any Human being that OUR HELP IF GOD. The atmosphere was amazing and it looks like all my brothers supernaturally agree. Wonders of Wonders before the end of The week God provided us with a so Huge money far more than what I can worked in 8 months combine together , without us asking help from any man. God did not only supply our needs but even our wants , and to keep us walking in Faith he never allows us to keep the money in the bank but help the hungry needed around us and continue Living by Faith. Without trusting in God for both the need of the body ,spirit and soul a man cannot work in true kingdom liberty. If you cannot trust God for your body , you will not have the faith to suffer for his name sake , or surrender it to die for his name sake, because your hope and faith is in something visible , government etc

  309. Barry Schmidt Apr 22nd 2013

    Great testimony Fabakary! Now thats the true and real propserity gospel!
    I find the more money I have in the bank the more I am temptd to worry and to hold on to it with white knuckles.
    I have to tell on myself here. I once had been squirrling away an “emergency fund”. It started small but I kept feeling like it wasnt enough until God had providentially increased my “emergency fund” to over $100,000.00 CDN. (God was alowing it to teach me a valuable lesson). But it was still “not quite enough”
    Then God said to me, “Barry I want you to place all of your trust in me which means you have to be willing to give up that “emergency fund.” That morning I walked into the church and a dear sister ron staff who knew nothing of God’s dealings with me in this called me into ther office and said, “barry pray for me I have been squirreling away an ’emergency fund’ and God is telling me I can’t put any trust in that fund but have to trust entirely in Him alone for my finances.”
    Mighty man of faith that I am- I said, “Well Sister. You better do that then!” and then I asked her, “by the way- how much money do you have in your “emergency fund”?” She replied, “I have $237.00 Cdn but just a little more would make me feel safer.”!!!!!
    hahahaha!

  310. fabakary Apr 22nd 2013

    That a beautiful Barry testimony what a witness , to the faithfulness of God; I am sure others can share similar testimonies. If we seek His kingdom as our all , he will take care of our materials needs , even when he requires us to empty our bank account or give out from it to others , when our confidence is in the bank account of Heaven we will not became servants of our earthly bank accounts, even when we have it. We know we can do all things through the spiritual infinite riches in Christ. This is how we become free from cares insecurity worries etc in negative circumstance.

  311. Barry Schmidt Apr 22nd 2013

    Needless to say there were gales of divine laughter coming from the Throne Room of the Almighty that morning eh! ( BTW “eh” is Canadain for “Amen”! lol

  312. fabakary Apr 22nd 2013

    Thank you barry indeed at least when I see now “eh “will know it means lol. Have a blessed day.

  313. Watchful, regarding what you said above about the context for contending for the faith is how I see it.

    When for example Paul had won followers and planted a church, then needed to contend for the truth against false apostles who were trying to deceive the followers Paul had won.

    One of the reasons I haven’t posted much online for some time now is I believe all the contention that goes on between believers ultimately becomes a hindrance to reaching out to those who don’t know Christ.

    We can become so intent on speaking our truth etc and quoting the bible to one another , that we loose the ability to be guided in words of wisdom and the ways of Christ, which are His way of reaching many who don’t know Him and wont understand ” church speak “.

    Jesus went out among the people who didn’t know Him and met them at the place they were at and revealed Himself to them in a way they would receive Him.
    A good example of this is the woman at the well.

    So I have come to question the value of becoming skilled at debating doctrine among believers that I haven’t won for Christ .

    Having said this , it is only the way that Christ is leading me at the moment, and it is not important that others agree with this, as we are all the same in that we will only do as our Lord Jesus Christ is directing us to do, or that which we have a witness with, and we are all different parts of His body, and as such are called to serve Him in different ways.

  314. I understand where you’re coming from Kevin and I respect the way which the Lord is leading you… :-)

    I believe the Lord is leading me to do what I’m doing here at the moment and so I will continue…

    I really believe that Andrew wants a place to establish the truth of God on the internet so that those who come here can be conflicted with the truth of God. Yes, I purposefully said conflicted….

    Because that’s what the truth of God does…

    It causes us to stop and think – to reassess…

    Wow, is that really what it means?

    I am supporting Andrew in what I believe is on his heart…

    In his heart I know that Andrew loves and obeys the truth…

    And that he wants to make it known – right here on the internet…

    This is what I am supporting – the dissemination of truth right here on the internet so that those of us who know the Lord can know the truth and impact, in our everyday lives, those we come in contact with with the truth which we know in our spirits and in our hearts…

    A lighthouse is how I see this website…

    A lighthouse shining of safety – a place of safety on the internet – where the truth can be known and shared and experienced in fellowship with one another and where those who do not know the Lord can come to know the Lord as the read of the truth which we are sharing and our testimonies of how the truth has practically transformed our lives… :-)

    I believe this vision is from the Lord…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  315. as they read… :-)

  316. Marilyn Crow Apr 22nd 2013

    Hi all, I`ve been away for a few days but have read the comments with interest & thought I`d add to the pot. Just a little summary –

    Andrew J. Horton wrote –
    `blessed be the God & Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.`
    (Eph. 1: 3)

    Kevin`s good points about what unites us is `the true risen, living Lord Jesus Christ.`

    Watchful – `contending seems to be the whole package.`

    Kevin – `the ability to be guided in words of wisdom & the ways of Christ.`

    fabakary – `eyes on God…`

    There has been an emphasis across the Body of Christ over many years about `Who we are in Christ.` There needs to be an understanding of this, we`d all agree however I`d like to put this in balance with another thought & see what you all think.

    I believe for us as the Body of Christ to grow to full maturity in Christ we need a greater understanding of who Christ is – His character, His attributes, His titles, His offices, His spiritual virtues.His promises, etc, etc.

    `…to build the Body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith & of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man…`
    (Eph. 4: 13)

    This is what the Apostles taught – (Acts 2: 22 – 36)

    As we feed on the truth our spirit life grows, is enlarged & out of that freshness flows, `living waters,` to others.

    Together meditating & sharing on Him. Marilyn.

  317. watchful Apr 22nd 2013

    oh fabakery, a wonderful testimony, and I could only wish the false teachers were talking about the same thing……..but since they store up for themselves so much treasure on earth it seems that they are not talking in the same vein at all. They are all the time saying that seed is money, but the scriptures say that the seed is the word. And if they were trusting God to provide why are they constantly asking for money from man?

    May I share a testimony as well?…..I am very familiar with those ministries being discussed. After being led out of this false religious system for some time, the Lord saw fit to deliver me from the prosperity gospel one morning, through the simple reading of the book of Matthew. He gave me “fresh eyes” to see with and with great joy He washed me clean and restored me to the true gospel. And I hadn’t even realized that I had imbibed this false Christ….so that is how I know from experience that they are not even of the HOLY Spirit, but another spirit altogether.

    “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

    Mat 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?

    Mat 6:26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

    Mat 6:27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ?

    Mat 6:28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.

    Mat 6:29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.

    Mat 6:30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?

    Mat 6:31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’

    Mat 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.

    Mat 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

  318. Praise the Lord for your testimony watchful… :-)

  319. watchful Apr 22nd 2013

    Amen Kevin, I was pretty sure you would agree, and was just sharing as it became clear to me. We do bicker too much, but really it’s not much different from face-to-face fellowships, there is always “flesh” around and everyone is at different places in their growth, or sometimes just a weak or unguarded moment. But each one should just do as the Lord leads them, of course – I know He led me to this site and in that time I have learned and grown and changed, and even recently saw with the Father confirming that I am in His will to be here. Often we don’t see the work that He is doing unseen! :) And that’s why too I have a sense of appreciation to Andrew for what he is doing.

  320. Watchful,

    I have often seen your posts contending for the real Lord Jesus Christ in much the same way I once was a few years back on these sites, so in that regard I can certainly understand that Christ has us do this, for in the times we live , the very nature , character and identity of the true risen Lord Jesus Christ , comes under attack by so many false teachers, preaching the other Jesus, that you mentioned above that you have been set free now.

    Often the times we are led to contend for His truth are times of consolidation for our own faith in Him which result in us becoming unwavering in our understanding of Him in the face of the enemy who comes to twist everything about our glorious risen Lord Jesus Christ.

    So bless you watchful in His name !

  321. Wow….I totally started the listening process just knowing that I would not like it because it was “rap”. Wow! It took me out of my “prejudice”…..totally awesome message….all should here it.

    God forgive me for my prejudice against rap….God is above all, and can communicate in many ways!

    God’s love comes through! Bless them for making it.

  322. Andrew ,

    I can understand what you are saying and trying to do here , having done very similar things myself in the past, believing that this would help bring about a restoration of the power and truth of Christ from a beachhead as you have put it.

    What I was wanting you to consider was that after some years of contending for the truth in much the same way you here, our Lord Jesus Christ turned my focus back out to those who don’t know Him, those who wouldn’t come onto a site like this, those who wouldn’t set foot inside a typical NZ church.

    What I found was that whenever we go “outside” we will see our Lords grace and mercy and power lead people unto Him healing and restoring them, working in the very ways that we seek to have Him work on the” inside”

    Andrew , it is not my place to say whether or not your endeavors here will bear fruit, and I understand that you have to follow what you witness with.

    From what I see globally at the moment , our Lord Jesus Christ is moving in His own way in many places in the world reaching people who have not had His truth put before them, in countries that have not known Him then rejected Him.

    In western countries like NZ ,we have a very different situation in that this country has moved from being a “God fearing Nation ” to one that now passes legislation that is an abomination to our Lord Jesus Christ.

    I believe that this is the fulfillment of His words and warnings, and question whether endeavors to “organize “revival in the” Laodicean ” church will bear fruit.
    Having said that I know from my own experience that there is still a harvest to be gathered in this country, however the means of gathering it from my perspective are somewhat removed from what many groups are trying to bring about.

    I believe in this country the way Jesus won the woman at the well is the example that works well.

    So Andrew, I only wanted you to consider what I raised.
    It all got somewhat lost in translation which tends to happen online.

    So be blessed in His name serving our one true risen Lord Jesus Christ.

  323. Marilyn,

    Acknowledging the different parts of the body of Christ as you have in your post above, along with seeking the collective wisdom of the body in fellowship , and together seeking to know our risen lord Jesus Christ will always lead to meaningful fellowship and growth.

    Be blessed in His name.

  324. I will depart now and wish you all the blessings that come to us from our glorious risen Lord Jesus Christ.

  325. OneBody; I was able to read your post above in which you were referenceing my theory that Eve could have had sex with satan.
    ——————-
    You stated: ” When I recognized the posted teachings as those my friend was sharing with me, I asked the person posting them, if the origin of teaching was the source below (Arnold Murray). I was bypassed and reprimanded for my inquiry.”
    ———————
    I believe you have a very sensitive nature, (which can be nice) especially since you have also stated that you kept quite with your friend. What I just wrote is not a reprimand, but you may also consider it one, if you are rather sensitive.

    I did not reprimand you in the other answering post I gave you either on the previous forum. I stated where I got that “teaching”….it has been around forever, I said, and gave some history about it. That teaching is taught in many places. Probably first heard it as a child, on the radio. That is explanation, not reprimand.

    I stated that not as fact, but as my opinion, because I don’t know. Only, it does seem plausable considering all the other scriptures in the Bible regarding beings not of Adam’s blood, and the really wierd repetitive incidents of “twins” in the Bible.

    Know, that I don’t create “doctrine” like others do, especially all the different churches. Nor do I go out and start churches like so many do based on their “doctrine”. I make opinions….only….except for the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is fact and the only doctrine that I care about. When a person says they believe in something, like, “I believe that red is the prettiest color in the world.” They are stating opinion! No man can prove that Eve did not have sex with satan. That was the common belief of our forefathers. Nor can they prove that she did.

    I thought I had answered your question….I did not bypass you intentionally. I, along with probably everyone else have come accross Arnold Murray’s teaching on TV before, if they are channel skippers like me…he is on 24/7. I have heard him but am not a follower. I disagree with very much of his teachings, which he teaches as facts, not opinions, mostly, probably because of his overwhelming ego. He spends far too much time using, and interpreting scripture so it attacks those who have attacked him. Scripture after scripture he fits into his end game, calling it fact. He loves the Lord, but his ego is tremendous…..which is why he is not objective….from what I had observed about him…my opinion, not fact…only God knows. He has the Gospel of Jesus Christ correct…and I am sure God will forgive him for the non-salvational errors that I feel he made. From what you posted about his teachings, I would agree with the one that says we had an existence before being put in these clay bodies…because there is scripture in the Bible that states that God knew us before. My opinion…not doctrine….nor is it salvational.

    I have also listened to Benny Hinn, and many others that pimp out the Lord….don’t know what God will do with them! I listen to China news, Russian news, Al Jazeera news, and Fox News, and the liberal news stations. Why? Because I like to see what God and satan are doing in this earth….what kind of lies men are spreading…all over. How the hatred is spreading…and for alot of other reasons.

    Christians have got to stop being so judgemental….like I was when I saw the song Andrew posted was rap! ;-).

  326. Barry Schmidt said: “PS- Have you denied yourself today? If you haven’t you are no longer following Jesus!”

    Excellant! All about daily sacrifice of self! God provdes our daily bread, and we in exchange daily deny ourselves!

  327. Praise the Lord Kevin, I support you in what you are doing, Bless him Lord and let everything which he does prosper and may many be won to you through his life and testimony, Praise You Jesus, And they will be, Love you brother… :-)

  328. Marilyn Crow Apr 23rd 2013

    There is an issue that keeps reoccuring that I would like to address. Firstly we know that

    `Opinions are like belly-buttons, as we all have one,` & opinions are fine for choosing colours, food, clothes etc but our opinions are not to be used to

    `lie against the truth. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic.` (James 3: 14 & 15)

    The specific truth that I am referring to is what Jesus told us

    `they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven.` (Mark 12: 25)

    Angels do not marry. Marry – meaning to unite, join. They do not have the physical sexual organs with which to do so. Angels cannot & never have been able to sexually join with humans.

    As to the `sons of God,` seeing the daughters of men, (Gen. 6: 4) God`s word tells us that Seth`s line was the one that `men then began to call upon the name of the Lord.` (Gen. 4: 20)

    Thus some of Seth`s line (sons of God – relating to God) married, joined into Cain`s line (sons of man – earthly minded) It is not a demonic uniting as such a thing is not possible as the Lord has told us.

    God says what He means & means what He says. Becareful….
    Marilyn.

  329. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    AMEN Marilyn.

  330. fabakary Apr 23rd 2013

    Watchful, I have heard of T.D jakes , joyce meyer, benny hinn, and creflo dollar some then even years ago
    T. D jakes since I heard of him, I listen maybe about 5 sermons in total, they were all specifically on overcoming trials.
    Joyce meyer: I have heard of her a long time ago, one of the brothers I fellowship with Here seemed to like her but I have never listen to any of her sermons, up to date
    Benny Hinn, : It was one night the Lord was teaching me a scriptural topic in dream, specifically about the rivers of water and in the dream I was directed to benn hinn and he had about 10 sermons just on o that topic which the lord wanted me to listen to as a witness of what he was teaching me ; Up to date I may have listen about 20 in total of her sermons. Most of them are either on overcoming trials , or how to keep the rivers of water and increases them mainly through relationship with the lord.
    Creflo dollar: Since I heard of Him there were only about 2 sermons that I listen in total ; they were about overcoming youthful lusts.
    Watchful I do not know about you and I do not know how much of there messages you listened, but one thing I know it is not a light thing to Label any of God children as a minister of Satan, to offend one of God children the scripture say it is better one cast himself into the sea ; The scripture cannot be broken that every idle word men give will give an account at the day of judgment. Better be sure it s God who is telling you so and so is a minister of Satan.

  331. To the Lord belongs escapes from death…

    Back in 2010 when I was overseas in Manila away from my wife and children and grandchildren paying off a loan which we had in Dubai, UAE, which we’d had to leave due to the financial crash in September 2008 – my wife and three youngest children had already returned to New Zealand – one day, Mon 09 Aug 10, the Lord told me to go back to my studio apartment at lunchtime for the rest of the day to pray…

    He’d never told me to do that before… and hasn’t since…

    I got down on my knees and He immediately started talking to me…

    I won’t go into what He told me but at the end of it I knew absolutely that I would be returning to New Zealand at the end of the year…

    I knew this so absolutely that I booked a one way ticket that night in faith…

    He’d given me faith and peace – which is what I’d been asking Him for – and I stood on it (faith and peace)…

    Now this was miraculous cos in the natural I would have needed to remain over there for another two and a half years more repaying this debt as I just couldn’t earn enough money over in New Zealand to pay this off…

    Now I’d gotten myself into this mess – through getting into debt – but earlier on in 2010 the Lord had broken that root of covetousness in me so that I didn’t desire things anymore – that in itself was a miracle…

    Anyway, so I believed…

    And started waiting…

    It was hard cos I had no control…

    The amount I needed was approx. 37,000 NZD…

    I knew that I needed to give notice to my employer on 12 Nov 10 to give one months notice…

    October rolled around and I got an unexpected email from my Dad…

    He said that he wanted to pay off my loan…

    I responded – I should say that the Lord made me feel my youngest son’s pain (his loneliness) as the prompt to instigate the cry in me that I could return – that I couldn’t accept that as a loan or with any strings attached (not that he’d said it was to be a loan or had any strings attached) but that if the Holy Spirit gave him a peace to give this to me as a gift, here is the bank account number…

    They (Mum and Dad) prayed and responded that they had peace and it (the loan) was paid off…

    The Lord didn’t give me a peace to do “a runner” when we left Dubai (as a number did) and so I had to go through that pain of being separated from my family for around eighteen months…

    While I was waiting for the provision the Lord told me that if a certain company offered me a certain salary (back home in New Zealand) that I should accept it – I knew it was the Lord talking to me but it made no sense – so I kept it in the back of my mind because the amount wasn’t enough to cover the Dubai loan repayments…

    Once the loan was paid off I understood better what the Lord was talking about…

    I had no signed job offer when I left Manila but three possible job offers…

    I ended up being offered the amount the Lord told me with the job which He told me (which my Dad had counselled me would give me more time with my family and it was also more in line with my interests – and ended up paying more than the other two) and so I took it…

    I have been very blessed in this job…

    Our God is good… :-)

    Praise You Jesus…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  332. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. (Revelation 12:11 KJV)

  333. fabakary Apr 23rd 2013

    Is that not amazing ? Thank you andrew J horton for that testimony, Our God is faithful,those who walk by faith will do exploit, in the midst of contradiction , and will survive in famine.

  334. Let’s talk about the faithfulness of the Lord to provide for us supernaturally on this thread… :-)

  335. Marilyn Crow; How do you read the below verses?

    Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. (Marilyn, these were definitly angels, you know that being familiar with the book of Job. They were not men of God.)

    Jude 1:6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.” Jude goes on to talk about Enoch, who was highly esteemed in this same chapter. The people in Jesus’s time were familiar with the Book of Enoch, it was taught.

    Have you read the Book of Enoch? Enoch was beloved of God, lived in Noah’s time…one of the men that did not die, and God took him up alive.

    Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    Enoch is mentioned in the Bible. Enoch wrote about the angels who were watching earth, and how they found the daughters of man lovely and took them in marriage and produced giants and other offspring during the time of Noah, and gave man knowledge that God did not want man to have.

    It is possible that Gen 6:4 is refering to these giant offspring, and that the sons of God are those watcher angels.

    I am also going to suppose that much of the Greek mythology may come from this period from ancient memories turned into twisted fables…passed down from generation to generation.

    The councils of Constantine who wanted the power of the religion to control the people left out Enoch’s writtings. Christ did not mean for religion to become organized into huge structures that supported the kings. Using religion to gain control of power and wealth, as did the Holy Roman church/empire…as do even many mega churches with preachers living in mansions. Would not surprise me a bit if that is part of what the Harlot is who rides the red 7 headed beast in Revelations. She rides satan, he supports her, and all who use religion in that manner for their gain. We could have a rapper rap about that!

    In Hosea, Hosea is prophesizing (sp) that there will be a day when the children of Israel shall be called sons of God….a time after Christ appears, probably after the Mellinnium.

    Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

    Now, there are many places after Christ made it possible by His crucifixion, where those who receive him are given power to become the sons of God, those who believe on His name, those who are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. The Promise is given that they will be like Christ when they next see Him….Son’s of God, transformed.

    And, yes you are right, angels and even us when we are transformed do not have the marriage custom as here on earth. Remember that question, “Whose wife will she be?”

    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    Yes, God says what He means & means what He says, and we should be careful…about those things which are made very clear, as is the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  336. watchful Apr 23rd 2013

    fatbakery, all I will say is this, suppose God uses an unclean bird like a raven to bring you bread, does that mean the raven is now a clean animal and safe for everyone to eat? We should be just as careful of what we label clean shouldn’t we? If the Father sends a raven, then I would say give thanks to HIM for the bread, not the raven. Don’t look to these big American style ministries for the gospel, if the true gospel is to be found there the North American church is not in a bad mess after all, and God made a huge mistake in calling His people out of it and orchestrating the biggest exodus since “the” Exodus. Look to Jesus who became poor……………so that we could become rich……….but what kind of riches do we think that is talking about? oh, the heart is deceitfully wicked and self-serving, ambitious and greedy.

  337. fabakary Apr 23rd 2013

    Watchful I am not telling one here to go and feed on any meal from any teacher or preacher. Regardless of how true a preacher may be if the Lord did not direct me , to read or listen from him, it does not bless me at all . Do not say something that I did not mean. What I am saying is you do not have to call any man a minister of Satan by ones own carnal judgment, let the Lord revealed to you those who are His, if not your natural wisdom or the wisdom and opinion of others may fail you , and that condemnation that you give to God children as minister of satan in the day of Judgment will stand against you. Thats what our Lord says in the scripture and He cannot lie. Be careful.

  338. watchful Apr 23rd 2013

    no fabakery, it never even occurred to me to call anyone a minister of Satan, but I will say this, that irregardless of what they were doing a few or 10 years ago, when the glory departs and the restrainer is taken away, guess what spirit comes in to take His place?

    I think of Paul saying follow me as I follow Christ……who became poor for our sakes………and then I look at these ones following the WORLD in all its foul deceptive glory, multiple mansions, flashy cars, plastic surgery, hair transplants, custom-designed clothes, body guards and private jets, celebrity class hotel accommodations, and the flock is supposed to follow THAT?? It doesn’t even vaguely resemble the gospel, no not at all, it looks a whole lot more like BABYLON.

  339. fabakary Apr 23rd 2013

    Watchful wrote :”no fabakery, it never even occurred to me to call anyone a minister of Satan,.”
    You had been saying here this people are false teachers, or did you forget you had been saying ?
    I do not find it anywhere in the scripture that being extremely rich is a sin, you might be surprise that with the little that you have it is possible many here in my country will term you being extremely rich ? If you are part of those have regular healthy food, with a conferrable place to sleep etc , to some here you are extremely rich.What a person do with Gods blessing depend on the judgment of God . I personally believe when God blesses any one with abundance it is always for other people, even the rivers of life are for others , but some believe they have to keep money for their children , build houses for each child etc and this is just a general believe I have observe in many , not just necessarily only some preachers. Even that it may still be Gods leading, so I will not Judge any by my own wisdom.

  340. Beautiful stated, Watchful. Get our of her, that Babylonian Whore.
    When considering these big American style ministries for the gospel, wherever they are found, and don’t forget the one that covers the entire earth from Rome.

    In a global world system…which we are already in….could not Babylon now be in many differing countries? I have always felt for numerous years that New York, and Los Angeles both represent cities that could fall when “Babylon is fallen, is fallen”, as proclaimed by the angels in Revelations. World Trade Center, Stock Exchange, United Nations, World Bank, all in New York, on the sea where merchants gaze from a distance at her smoke rising up, where once was a city, mourning because they have embraced her….world wide.

    Tho she may be just the Harlot who the kings of earth turn and destroy during the end times because they lose all she promised…which was material wealth and power.

    Los Angeles, another candidte, producer of lies, spread all over the world, grabbing children and shaping their minds.

    Rome, the castle of the Vatican, controlled by the Jesuits now, who have one of the most powerful telescopes on earth in Arizona…watching for something that they say is coming…who have interpreted the “giants” the same way I have….and who even now are looking to embrace “all” religions on earth. Will Rome be one of the major religions that embrace invading “angels” because they proclaim peace and wealth to the world??? Is she a candidate for the false prophet, that points towards antichrist as god?

    Do we need a telescope (a tool invented by man and the science that man worships in this 6th Seal Spirit influence) to see our returning God, Alpha Omega, who even now lives within our hearts???? The First and Seventh Eye Spirit of God which watches over mankind to know where man’s heart’s desire will find his home.

    Babylon (Rev.17:3) rides on the back of the red beast (Rebellious red beast satan spirit…who is represented by the second eye Spirit Seal on the Scroll that the Lamb owns, by which God measures man’s desires). Babylon is what man uses and worships for power and gain in the earthly life….which would include both the money system/economy (rider on the Black Horse…third eye Spirit Seal that God measures man’s desires) and the false religious system which brings forever death and Hell (anti-christ rider on the Pale Horse…fourth eye Spirit Seal by which God measures man’s desires). Both are supported by the red dragon beast, satan.

    The LAMB (who was slain before the foundations of the earth) only can loose the seven Seals on the Scroll of Redemption of man.(Rev.5:5).

    (Rev.5:6) And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne….stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the SEVEN SPRITS OF GOD SENT OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH.”

    This above scripture is where I believe it is defined what the Seals are upon the Scroll. They are the 7 eyes of the Lamb…7 Spirits of God loosed upon the earth to separate the tares from those who want God’s Will above their own. These Spirits were released from the beginning of earth creation….the First Eye Spirit, Rider on the White Horse , one Crown, Ruler of all Creation, being ALPHA who created earth and our clay bodies, conquered the dragons plans for us, and will conquer all Evil during His return as the 7th Eye Spirit, OMEGA, The Day of the Lord, manifested when the 7th Seal is removed. OMEGA, also a Rider on a White Horse, but this time He has many crowns because during the tribulation of the trumpets and the Wrath of the Vials, He takes over all rule of earth kingdoms, and commences His Kingdom upon the earth for 1,000 years when He at the end, once again conquers the plans of the dragon, this time forever…no more tares…no more need for the dragon. All crowns are given back to God.

    1 Cor 24:15=Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    Five of these “Seals” were loosed upon the earth long ago, especially the first one from our beginning..ALPHA. Christ/mans Creator came first, quickly followed by the 2nd, 3rd, and for sure even the 4th also was in existence in Zechariah, Chapter 5 and 6.

    The 5th Seal Spirit Eye of God loosed the condition of martyrdom upon the earth…those pure souls who were willing to die for the Testimony of Jesus Christ…Christ removed this Seal on the cross…..and the 6th Seal followed (what happened when Christ died?) and will end with great earth shakings and the signs of the 6th Seal mentioned in Rev. 6:12. I believe that this 6th Seal is also about man worshipping man, because 6 is the sign of man. We are probably getting ready for the 7th Seal to be removed, and the angels given their trumpets and on the 7th trumpet sounding, more angels given the Vials.

    I am sure some will call me a heretic because I believe the Bibles definition of the Seals upon the Scroll, and It’s definition of the Scroll over what mankind teaches….because man has been taught by the Vatican what the Scroll and the Seals are….which they say is totally about the end times. I will take the word of the Bible over the Pope and his dominions any day, especially since the Vatican prohibits it’s priest from marrying, and God insisted that His priest in the Old Testament should be married. What a perversion that has become!

    Protestant churches left the Vatican, but they took allot of the teachings, imprintings within their minds with them. And, “NO”, I am not a Jehovah Witness, just because we agree about the first Seal being Jesus Christ…they are also full of false hoods. I believe the Bible to the best of my understandings, and have total faith that God will lead me out of any misunderstandings I make that are not salvational as He reveals His total magnificence to those who seek Him above all else.

    We need to get out of “her”, and look only towards Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit He gave us to guide us within His Word. We need to embrace small, and humble, righteousness and what God requires of mankind.

    Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you; But to do justly; to love mercy and to walk humbly with God.

    Zep 2:3 Seek the LORD all you meek of the earth, who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of the LORD’s anger.

    Some will say that it is not humble to expose their understandings instead of keeping them hidden in the dark. If they are not exposed to others, they will not be subject to the Light of correction (I do not consider parrot spouting correction). There are so many folks who do not speak up because of their fear of man over their fear of the Lord. So please, be gentle…and understand that I seek to learn from scripture. So, give me scripture that refutes what I said above. Hungry for that knowlege.

    Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.

  341. you might be surprise that with the little that you have it is possible many here in my country will term you being extremely rich ? If you are part of those have regular healthy food, with a conferrable place to sleep etc , to some here you are extremely rich

    and as i sit here in america FABAKARY
    this is true…………….YET THEY LUST FOR MORE.
    we were never promised the easy life that many now seek.
    THIS is the PROBLEM……………..americans or most of them
    dont see themselves as already loaded with more than hearts desires…………….
    instead they only want more.
    SELL THIS STUFF and give to the poor.
    many cry cause they can barley make ends meet here in america……..yet the ends they speak of have naught to do with FOOD or CLOTHES…………..but rather the life someone else has who has more. THIS IS EVIL and of SATAN and the LOVE of GOD is not in them. BUT there is a way out of all this foolishness and cares and pleasures in life……
    HE IS JESUS………………and with HIM a NEW HEART IS GIVEN
    which will NOT STORE UP HERE ON EARTH, but rather IN HEAVEN and give to the POOR.
    COME TO JESUS……………………..AND a NEW HEART IS GIVNE
    COME………………………buy he who has no money
    come to the fountain of the water of life…………..
    be cleanesed………………………..and be THE NEW CREATURE
    lET go of all strongholds……………….
    AND BE FREE……………………..COME , COME TO CHRIST
    and HE will give thee a NEW HEART. amen.
    This message is for all who desire HIM. amen.

  342. Watchful; What do you think was meant when it was revealed in scripture that it was not sin to eat meat (beef) that had been sacrificed to an idol? Does it mean maybe that man gets caught up in his religion which has nothing to do with the quality of what is being offerred for nourishment, if it is beef. However if that “meat” was pork, and forbidden because of disease issues, that would be different? Because the “pork” violated the word of God that was given to the Believer. The beef is ok to eat, because the Believer was not the one sacrificing the meat to a false idol.

    Same with the bread that comes from a raven’s beak. If God choses a raven to bring you food, you better know that He will also kill any germs on that food, or it would defeat His define purpose in bringing you the food via the raven!

    If there is truth within the dark, and that truth is also been approved for the Believer, than it would be foolish to reject it because it was on the dark table? That is one of the ways that satan deceives the Believer, by putting some of the same truths on, let’s say Buddha’s table. Buddah also believes in love. Should we reject “love” because of that?

    As for calling even a buzzard, let alone a raven, unclean, of course, just applies to eating it’s meat. That buzzard is very true to the calling that God created him with, to clean up the rotten dead things that lay about, a task that not many would want to perform. Bless the buzzard for being faithful to his task.

    God oftens uses the tares to provide for His people.

    None of God’s creatures, except man, have sin.

  343. watchful Apr 23rd 2013

    You evidently disagree with the warnings, fabakery. That is your prerogative my friend, but it makes me concerned for you.

  344. TO the LORD be all GLORY……….
    whether in sufferings, or in praise……….
    FOR HE ALONE IS WORTHY.
    LET all who name the name of the LORD
    GIVE HIM the PRAISE………….
    LET all that has breath PRAISE the LORD……….
    these days on earth are numbered………….our life
    but a vapour………………which vanishes away.
    THE END……………………..the END of our faith is Salvation.
    AND knowing this , having this HOPE…………….gives me all Strength to endure all things……………..for my JOY is in HIS salvation, in that HE set me free from darkness
    and has given me a new heart, HIS GRACE is sufficeint
    for me in all times…………….
    PRAISE the LORD…………………all saints of HIS, PRAISE the LORD…………………….
    JOY in HIS salvation, HOPE in HIS COMING and the GLORY to be revealed in that day……………..and you will have all strength you need. FOR the JOY OF THE LORD is MY STRENGTH,
    PUT down all else…………..trust in nothing else
    LEAN upon HIM, trusting in HIS EVERY WORD
    and TRULY ye shall be free.
    PRAISE THE LORD…………………….RAISE UP HOLY HANDS
    and PRAISE THE LORD…………….we of all peoples
    of all nations, HAVE ALL REASON to have all HOPE,
    for we HAVE CHRIST……………..and this sets us free in mind
    in all……………..SING unto the LORD for his mercies and his compassions are daily…………….HE WILL GUIDE us through all waters………………..and nothing shall seperate us from HIS HAND……………..GO………………….and tell the world of HIS MERCIES…………………for the end draws nigh
    Warn the unruly, and tell the world of HIS SALVATION
    which is in CHRIST……………..and ONLY in CHRIST
    PRAISE HIM DAILY………………..cast all cares upon Him
    set all AFFECTIONS above……………..
    As PETER said…………….to the STRANGERS,
    FOR THIS WORLD IS NOT OUR HOME.
    OUR KINGDOM IS ABOVE………..
    BUT ONE DAY SHALL COME. TO THE LORD THE ALL GLORY
    amen.

  345. If a modern day preacher or religious leader is teaching that it is ok to kill those who do not believe as you do….that is a satan teacher.

    If the same teacher says it is ok to rape women of the enemy, that is a satan teacher.

    If a religious teacher teaches that Jesus was only a teacher sent by the Father, that is a false teacher.

    If a teacher says it is ok to go in and take all the possessions of your enemy, and to lie to your enemy….that is a satan teacher.

    Other than obvious judgements, such as those above, we should not be proclaiming or labeling a mistaken teachers of Jesus Christ as a followers of satan. There is a difference between being mistaken and deliberately intending to mislead. Only God can see into the health and wealth preachers, and what they do with their gain. I believe it is wrong, and I will point out that wrong according to scriptures and hope for repentence.

  346. Watchful………………thanks for trying to help others…….
    now PRAY for them as well.
    PRAY a HEART will all AFFECTIONS above on HIM
    into all you have warned.
    GOD alone and HE only can give the increase.
    I have found MUCH JOY in the LORD.
    But much sadness and heaviness for those
    who just wont hear this simple message i bring.
    FOR they too could hvae the peace i have
    and not the contiual strivings which destroy them.
    JOY IN THE LORD. and be blessed.

  347. GODLINESS with CONTENTMENT
    IS GREAT GAIN………………………
    THUS learn to be CONTENT in all circumstances.
    and Read the doctrines and hear the spirit
    and learn godliness.
    TO THE LORD be all GLORY
    amen.

  348. fabakary Apr 23rd 2013

    God bless Randell Lowrey , having good food, clothing, is one of the greatest material blessing from God on earth today , one need to daily give thanks having it rather than crying someone else has more as you rightly put it.
    Watchful , I think we have converse much . Have a blessed day.

  349. KITTY ………….paul, james jude, peter, JESUS himself
    warned of A LOT MORE than what yOU JUST said.
    GO and READ the letters to churches.
    and may your eyes be opened unto more of the TRUTH.
    amen. You are loved KITTY……………just do this
    and see for youself…………HOW OFTEN paul and others
    and CHRIST warned of FALSE PROPHETS.
    do this for a while. Just read the gosples and letters to the churches. YOU will seee in a no time at all………
    WE must come back to ONLY GOOD SOUND DOCTRINE.
    be blessed kitty……………know you are loved
    and go and read with much joy the words of JESUS
    and the APOSTELS with the intent to LEARN.
    amen

  350. and on that note…………..that message is FOR US ALL.
    go again and read the words of CHRIST and HIS APOSTLES…..
    and yearn for the TRUTH………….and YOU SHALL GET IT. amen

  351. We have a commission from the Lord to disciple the nations…

    All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus…

    And He has commanded us having gone (i.e. the assumption was that we would go) to disciple all the nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them – all the nations – to observe all things – whatever He commanded us – and He has promised to be with us even to the end of the age…

    Have we done this?

    His provision is given to those who are surrendered to this…

    His supernatural provision for the furtherance of the Gospel…

    Seek first His Kingdom and His Righteousness and all these things will be added to you as well…

    I was encouraged by your praise to the Lord for what He has freely given you Randall… :-)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  352. watchful Apr 23rd 2013

    …I think fabakery knows the extent of the riches we are talking about here because I described it quite clearly…

  353. watchful Apr 23rd 2013

    Kitty, you might have misunderstood what I was saying about the raven, I’m not sure. But it is fine to eat food that the ravens bring, IF/WHEN God sends it. But even if God sent it, that still doesn’t make the whole raven a clean animal. In other words, take the bread but don’t swallow the whole bird! Hope that clarifies.

    Buddhism and others are not talking about the same love that Jesus/God speaks of. It is of another spirit altogether. The love that Jesus/God are talking about can only come from Him, when He comes to live in us by His Spirit. It just doesn’t exist in fallen human nature. It is self-less, not self-righteous.

    We should NEVER NEVER eat anything from any table that God didn’t specifically lead us to eat. Warning, warning Will Robinson! (robot from a very old sci-fi series from when I was a child, lol)

    Buzzards are only doing according to the nature that they were born with…….we appreciate God who made them, but myself I would stop short of thanking the buzzards, because they don’t know any better either way! They are just satisfying their hunger. And one day the ‘services’ they provide won’t be necessary, praise the Lord, so maybe they will eat other things, grass and seeds and such.

    Will try to come back later to say a bit more…

  354. “I being in the way the Lord led me…” (from Genesis 24:27 KJV)…

    Once we submit to the Lord’s command to “having gone disciple all the nations…” then we will experience the “I am with you always…” and “all these things shall be added unto you for the purpose of the task which we have surrendered/submitted to be obedient to perform before the Lord…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  355. unto you” for… :-)

  356. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    The WORLD would have been converted to Christ centuries ago, IF Father’s children had MANIFESTED THE NATURE OF JESUS.

    It is the NATURE OF JESUS that brings REPENTANCE AND REVIVAL……..IT IS THE POWER that we were promised in Acts. THE HOLY SPIRIT COMES WITH POWER TO CONFORM US TO THE NATURE OF JESUS.

    When the NATURE OF JESUS increases in us, THEN POWER flows out of us into the world to convict and persuade the inner man in the people around us.

    God is so HUGE, so powerful, so loving, so good, so ALL SUFFICIENT………

    that He does NOT NEED US TO DO HIS WORK!

  357. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    God BENDS DOWN to ALLOW US to PARTICIPATE WITH HIM in His Kingdom work.

    He does not NEED US.

  358. Why would you oppose the clear teaching of scripture Lightning Storm?

    Jesus delegated His authority to us and as we submit to Him He does His work through us… :-)

  359. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    AMEN fabakary.

    There was a study done some years ago to determine how the WORLD’S WEALTH was distributed among the people on the planet.

    This study determined that ANYONE who owned or had $2,000 dollars or more was RICH…..WEALTHY according to the number of people on the planet and the amount of wealth on the planet.

    So ……..re-read the verses about the WEALTHY/RICH and APPLY THEM TO YOURSELVES.

    Did Jesus FOLLOW THE STANDARDS OF THE WORLD?

  360. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    Neither a SERVANT or a CHILD is given THE AUTHORITY to do whatever they did the day before (OR whatever they see “fit” to be done that day, situation, or circumstance)
    WITHOUT reporting to their MASTER/FATHER and INQUIRING OF HIM FOR THE DAILY INSTRUCTIONS.

  361. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    If a servant does whatever they see fit, rather than INQUIRING OF THE LORD, then they do not have the AUTHORITY UPON WHAT THEY ARE DOING OR SAYING.

    NO POWER. NO REVIVAL.

  362. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    AMEN fabakary.

    There was a study done some years ago to determine how the WORLD’S WEALTH was distributed among the people on the planet.

    This study determined that ANYONE who owned or had $2,000 dollars or more was RICH…..WEALTHY according to the number of people on the planet and the amount of wealth on the planet.

    So, re-read the verses about the WEALTHY/RICH and APPLY THEM TO YOURSELVES.

    Did Jesus FOLLOW THE STANDARDS OF THE WORLD?

  363. Jda016 Apr 23rd 2013

    The deceptive things about false teachers are that they sometimes start off on the right path.

    Look at King Saul. He started off humbled and contrite before the Lord and he even prophesied! But later he cared more about what people thought of him than God and eventually murdered all the priests AND their families that helped David.

    False teachers can be similar in that they have the truth of God, then they twist it and pervert it. So you may hear a sermon, read a book, or watch a television broadcast where they say something that is Biblical, then with the very next breath they go way off the deep end and say something heretical.

    God says there will be greater judgement upon those who teach (James 3:1). Because of this we, as Christians, should be all the more diligent to point out heresies even if something the minister has said helped us before.

    I personally remember reading one of Rick Joyner’s earlier books and it inspired me to seek after the heart of God more. Later I went to his school of ministry and there was so much false teaching and new age going on, that I had to leave and quit the school.

    I suppose I could not name Rick Joyner and allow the possibility of someone else who does not know any better (like I didn’t) to end up going to his school and be subjected to wickedness and new age, or I could simply name him and let people know to beware.

    We do not name false teachers because of bitterness or hatred, but because we love the flock and wish to see them safe.

  364. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    If a servant does whatever they see fit, rather than INQUIRING OF THE LORD, then they do not have the AUTHORITY UPON WHAT THEY ARE DOING OR SAYING.

    Should read:

    “they do not have the MASTER’S AUTHORITY UPON WHAT THEY ARE DOING OR SAYING.”

  365. GaryB; you said “The Bible says “Love thinketh no evil”, but it seems to me most can think evil anytime they want and use the scripture to justify their view and belittle a brother who has a different opinion.”

    You are right the Bible does in many places state we are not to “think” evil. What is “evil”? You need to define that first. What is “thinketh”? “Thinketh” is plotting and planning, devising ways to do “evil”.

    You are being very loose with the word “evil” as you use it up above.

    Evil cannot be defined or labeled upon those who stand up for righteousness sake…even if it may offend another. Being offended is not the result of evil. We are commanded to stand up, get off the fence, but most have taken “love thy neighbor” as never saying anything negative, being sweet, and gentle natured. TOLERANT! Satan loves the christian who sits on the fence…because it paves his way!

    Evil is big, it is lies, murder, idol worship, stealing, immorality, and wanting what others have, like a worm eating within one’s belly, never giving him peace, because he does not have what his neighbor has…whether it be fame, glory, power, health, or wealth.

    If we see lies within the pulpit we are to speak against them. If money is being worshipped as the means of achieving healing, it is idol worship. We cannot buy our righteousness. It is immoral to live in a grand house built with God’s money stolen from the poor in exchange for an imagined blessing..or a healing. God decides those things. Take a good read of JOB. God cannot be harnessed into man’s use.

    Preaching God’s Word should not be a “profession”. Telling people that if they give huge sums of money to “ones establishment” they will be blessed, is a lie, and when the one who falls for those lies, receives no blessing, it could murder their faith in God. That is the worse kind of MURDER and DECEPTION!

    Evil is not defined based on our feelings, neither is love. They both are tangible factors based on our choices as defined by God’s Will…not defined by our feelings.

  366. There’s such a joy to surrendering/submitting to the Lord’s command… :-)

    Everything flows out of that… :-)

    His Presence, His Peace, His Provision… :-)

    All good things but if we don’t submit to Him then we live in the barren wilderness of rebellion…

    God makes a home for the lonely; He leads out the prisoners into prosperity, Only the rebellious dwell in a parched land. (Psalm 68:6 NASB)

    Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel’s sake, but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life. (Mark 10:29-30 NASB)

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  367. Chas351, Jesus rebuked the churches in Revelation and we should be aware of what those rebukes were all about so we can examine the churches today. He rebuked His disciples from time to time, even calling them satan.

    We are to leave the judgement of our brethren up to God, but we are to rebuke (mention, communicate) if we think we see an action that is not within God’s word. A friend who would not do that….is a fake friend….a friend of little substance….who prefers to be popular and approved by all.

    Those who can receive a rebuke without getting angry is on the road to wisdom. Both the rebuker and the one being rebuked may be in error, but neither should get angry and prideful about the rebuke. State your case, and move on.

  368. Yes, Randall, many many more scriptures regarding rebuking that Christ did. I just didn’t list them all.

    Good word!

  369. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    We should ALSO go to God for OUR OWN JUDGMENT…..not only to inquire of HIS JUDGMENT OF OTHERS.

    Submitting ourselves to GOD’S JUDGMENT of us.

    Who is not afraid to ask the Lord:
    “I ask you to JUDGE ME according to Your RIGHTEOUSNESS, and Baptize me in Your Fire”

    Satan has COUNTERFEITED EVERYTHING about the Kingdom of God.

    Including the feelings of Peace, Love, and Joy.

    Judging OURSELVES according to how “peaceful” we feel, is not scriptural.

    SELF-SATISFACTION feels VERY peaceful.

    Anyone can feel “at peace” when they get their own way and when they get what they want.

  370. Watchful; I understood that you were in agreement. True Buddah’s love is different, but they still label it “love”, and that was what I was referring to. So many folks go by “labels” to help and simplify the work of understanding beyond the label. In fact it is those commonly accepted “labels” that often stop the reader of posts from truly understanding what the writer is trying to say. I have to really read carefully you all’s posts, so that my own conceptions don’t get in the way. And, I still mess up.

    I am in agreement with you. We do not sit down at that table, but some of the things are on both tables, the fake table and the real table of God.

    Are you in agreement that it is ok to eat the meat that was sacrificed to an idol, as long as you were not the one doing the sacrificing? Unless of course, you were thinking of eating it in front of a newbie in the Faith who might be misled by that action.

    I think this is what is causing so much confusion at times.

  371. Watchful; What about the concept of when we are thanking the buzzard we are actually thanking God for His infinite knowledge and wisdom! 😉

  372. When you experience God’s joy – after surrendering and submitting yourself to Him – you know that you are experiencing God’s joy… :-)

  373. Amen to that Lightning Storm! As you said, “The WORLD would have been converted to Christ centuries ago, IF Father’s children had MANIFESTED THE NATURE OF JESUS.”

    That was the task that we were given, Daily Sacrifice of self will, loving and fearing the LORD, and loving our neighbor (which is not the touchy feely love, but the love of choice which helps and cares for our neighbor.). Keeping it simple, humble, not striving for (coveting) glory, power, and wealth. Being men of truth and honor. Not planning murder for our gain.

  374. It’s amazing how when the truth of God is being preached the enemy brings opposition to “hang around” the word of God which is being preached… :-)

  375. I tend to agree with Lightning Storm, that God does not need us. He chose to allow us the chance to spread His Kingdom, but we failed Him, just like Adam man who started out walking with the LORD for 1,000 years.

    Just like did Abraham men who had the first covenant (which is now decayed, but not yet dead), failed God for the next 4,000 years.

    Just like the men of our time who are under the New Covenant and Grace and Mercy of Jesus Christ, we have failed Him the last 2,000 years also. God’s Kingdom is not covering the entire world!

    He does not need us, He knew we woud fail, but He knew we would learn a heck of alot in that failure. He loves us as a Father should…and He brings conditions that will cause every knee to bow in recognition after His anger has been spent….and many will be allowed to enter the Mellinium Kingdom.

    He will now give those who are transformed (Saints) in Jesus Christ who ran the race til the end, the opportunity for the next 1,000 years, helping His iron rod rule in the Mellinnium Kingdom! His authority, not mans. He is with us, and we are one mind with Him. Guaranteed SUCCESS because we are like Him and one mind with Him, and there will be no more confusion! The Kingdom will be spread all over the world in this next 1,000 years. Totally under the 7th Spirit and Eye of our King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ, ALPHA and OMEGA, the LAMB who made it possible. Than the last hour of testing when the dragon is unbound to test all of those who were perfectly taught. Would a Father give the final test to children that were not perfectly taught? Nope, not in my opinion.

  376. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    As long as I am walking HOLY SPIRIT CONTROLLED (Gal 5), I am filled with the Fruit of His Spirit…including Joy.

    As soon as my flesh/sin nature has its way in thought , word, or deed…..I have quenched the Holy Spirit and now feel STIRRED UP INSIDE.

    Stirred up over what? Does it matter? Sin is Sin.

    No Fruit. No Authority. No Light. No Power. No Revival.

    The only facet of the Nature of Jesus that cannot be COUNTERFEITED by Satan is His DIVINE LOVE.

    Divine Love, the love of Gal 5, is SACRIFICIAL.
    Sacrificing of what?

    Our physical life? NO
    Our time? NO
    Our money? NO
    Our possessions? NO

    It is the SACRIFICE of HAVING OUR OWN WILL, DESIRES, WAYS, in EVERY moment of our Life.

    Our THOUGHTS exchanged for the Mind of Christ…EVERY moment.
    Our WILL exchanged for the Will of God…EVERY moment.
    Our DESIRES exchanged for the Desires of God….EVERY moment.

    2Ki 17:33 KJV
    They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.

    A person can name the name of Jesus and fear God, and be Master of their own words, thoughts, and desires.
    But the Lord will say: ” I Never Knew you”.

    Feeling STIRRED UP over false teachers, heresy, injustice, deception?

    That is not the Peace of God or the Joy of God or the Love of God.

    And it EXPOSES the belief that God is NOT SOVEREIGN IN ALL THINGS……that He NEEDS US.

    The Nature of the TRUE GOD is that He is:

    ALL POWERFUL
    ALL SUFFICIENT
    ALL KNOWING
    PRESENT EVERYWHERE
    UNCHANGING

  377. Why don’t you encourage me with some of the things which the Lord has been accomplishing through you Lightning Storm? That would encourage my heart, maybe share a testimony of what the Lord has been doing through you to bring others to know Him… :-)

  378. For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, (Romans 15:18 NASB)

  379. Lightning Storm Apr 23rd 2013

    There is nothing I can say to you Andrew J Horton, that you will believe.

  380. I know that I would be encouraged Lightning Storm if you shared with me anything that the Lord has been accomplishing through You to bring others to know Him… :-)

  381. I’ll share a testimony… :-)

    While I was at University many years ago (probably 1993) I was sitting in a lecture theatre one morning before lectures started…

    I’d been given a Spurgeon sermon the day before (Sunday) by a friend and had it in my bag…

    The Holy Spirit said to me, “Give it to the person sitting in front of you”…

    I was quite taken aback…

    But I thought, “Oh well, I will”…

    So I lifted up my head to see a Japanese student – a guy – who I’d maybe been introduced to once before and said, “I just felt to give you this sermon” (I really didn’t know him from a bar of soap)…

    I didn’t think much of it for a while and then a few months later I remembered and turned to him again during lectures and said, “How’s it going with the sermon?”…

    I was astounded with his response…

    He said, “Well the English is very difficult to read so I’ve had to go through it with a Japanese/English dictionary”…

    I was blown away…

    He’d been reading it…

    Later on that year we had to attend a Survey Camp – which happened to be held at a Christian Camping Ground in the Marlborough Sounds here in the South Island of New Zealand…

    Somehow this same guy ending up in my bunkroom – it was the Lord…

    Anyway there were a number of Christian posters on the walls in the dining room and one evening he asked me what one of them meant…

    The text on the poster was, “He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy. (Proverbs 29:1 KJV) – I’m pretty sure it was in KJV…

    Anyway that opened up the way for me to share the Gospel with him to show him how Jesus had been prophesied about in the book of Isaiah, etc, and also to explain to him about hell…

    And about how God didn’t want him to have to go there…

    We ended with me sharing with him about how he had to confess with his mouth, “Lord Jesus” – that Jesus needed to be his Lord…

    He was in the top bunk and as we went to sleep I could hear him from the bottom bunk saying (repeating to himself), “Lord Jesus” a number of times…

    After that he got back from the camp and went to a church and got baptised and baptised in the Holy Spirit – he didn’t even tell me until later…

    We became very close friends in the Lord and started having little fellowship meetings with other believers on campus…

    He met a lovely Malaysian believer and they were married in Singapore and shouted me to come over to their wedding to be my friends best man…

    They have two lovely children now and are still walking with the Lord…

    Praise You Jesus…

  382. Hi Intercessor,

    I had a scripture on my heart for you earlier on this afternoon…

    “Though He slay me, I will hope in Him. (Job 13:15a NASB)

    Even if some of the things which the Lord has promised you don’t come to pass will you still praise Him?

    Will you still praise Him even if some of your deepest hopes and dreams and desires and plans are left unfulfilled?

    Are you willing to walk through the valley of Baca and make it a place of springs (attracting the rain of God)?

    Passing through the valley of Baca they make it a spring; The early rain also covers it with blessings. (Psalm 84:6 NASB)

    I know that you love Him deeply but do you love Him that deeply?

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  383. Though He slay me, I will hope in Him. (Job 13:15a NASB)

    THOUGH THE LORD SLAY ME, STILL shall i serve Him
    HE is my hope and my stay.
    THIS verse was on my mind earlier too Andrew.
    I believe when a man comes to embrace that……..
    He has truly grown in grace.
    TRULY…………………..
    FOR that is a HEART after GODS WILL.
    TRUSTING in HIM and wanting HIM to have all GLORY in all things.
    A heart which years for GOD and TRUSTS him so
    And the man who said it…………………WAS SUFFERING.
    THAT is a heart after GOD, and complete submitting unto HIS WILL. AND it is a GEM of true beauty.
    A heart after GOD……………………which is UPON THE LORD.
    Paul too had LEARNED to be CONTENT
    And i say LET US ALL GROW in GRACE.
    KEEP in sound doctrine.
    WE can learn much from those scrips
    and the letters written by seasoned men in the LORD.
    Be blessed.

  384. OR another verse
    A man which swears to his own HURT, yet changeth NOT.
    A man desiring ONLY to FOLLOW GOD
    COME WHAT MAY…………………..and disreguaring his own life
    instead seeking ONLY GODS WILL.
    THAT i pray in all us. And that we do grow in Grace.
    That in all things and through all times we rejoice in the LORD.
    that in simple times we do not wax fat and fall away
    that in the harshest of times we rejoice in the LORD
    seeing it as it is in truth. Simply being counted worthy to suffer shame for HIS NAME, fo r the Kingdom for which we suffer,
    When grace abounds in us………………….we come to
    a place where in the deepest of our inner being
    we simply REJOICE, in that HE CALLED US OUT OF DARKNESS, and has transalated us into HIS marvelous light.
    OH how i could go on……………….OF whom much is FORGIVEN the same loveth much. PRAISE THE LORD.
    and when sin becomes exceeding sinful………….
    YOU will understand, WE DEEPLY NEEDED and NEED
    the savoir at all times. A complete NEED of HIM.
    to sustain in US HIS GOODNESS , HIS UNCTIONS
    and HIS POWER to do that which we are called to do.
    PRAISE THE LORD…………………and amen.

  385. HIS DAILY GRACE is sufficient ………….
    HIS GRACE is ALL THE REASON to rejoice at all times……….
    BLESSED Be the LORD…………..
    being thankful unto HIM…………………amen.

  386. Amen Randall, Praise the Lord brother, Thank You Jesus that You will keep us from falling and present us faultless in the Presence of Your Glory with great joy, Hallelujah!!! Let us be found faithful unto You until death (or until we meet You in the air – as it may be)… :-)

  387. AND THIS GRACE is freely given us IN CHRIST……….
    that in all THINGS the FATHER be glorifed………..
    SING peoples…………………..
    A man like me shall sing………………
    O THANK the LORD………………..for HIS MERCIES
    HIS COMPASSIONS FAIL NOT……..
    Keep all affections above………………..
    HE IS OUR SALVATION…………………..our JOY
    our very HOPE………………….
    in HIIM we can do all things…………….
    HE IS OUR STRENGTH………..our HOPE
    and the SONG of our heart giving HIM praise at all times
    AMEN.
    Whether harsh times or simple………
    I AM RICH…………….for I have CHRIST
    and the GRACE of GOD…………………..is my treasure daily.
    SING lambs……………………….LIFT up holy hands
    and PRAISE the GOD of OUR SALVATION
    Raise thy voice in exaltation unto GOD
    GIVING him thanksgivings and songs of praise
    HE is our deliver, the keeper of our soul.
    ENDURE faithful in HIM, till the end
    and Recieve the CROWN . amen.

  388. You are making me laugh with joy Randall, Praise the Lord brother… :-)

  389. Joy unspeakable and full of glory… :-)

  390. A hope that will not be cut off… :-)

  391. watchful Apr 24th 2013

    How do we get to that place Randall? where we fly above the pain and trials. Suffering well, in other words…without chafing and complaining inwardly, or fretting, or turning to little false comforts, but bearing it well….

    It’s difficult being alone in a group of non-believers and suffering their judgments with them, even as you endure their reproach, as opposed to living with a group of like-minded where you would go through things together and have each other for support and encouragement. The devil has even invaded my place of prayer to rob me of my Comfort. But I know His grace is sufficient for all circumstances, and I am hoping that enduring in these circumstances is the very thing that seasons a person, because He knows the way that we take. One thing I cling to is that this is intercession for them and standing in the gap for them with my life.

    I was shown a parable in the one who crossed the Niagara Falls river gorge not long ago on a tightrope, thanking Jesus as he went, a picture of my life, lol! Nick Walenda I think is his name. The world might look on and think what a foolish thing to do, risking your life like that, as good as dead already, and for what? Because that is exactly the thought that crossed my mind until the Lord showed me the parable in a flash, and I was chastened as well as joyful. Because in truth God has a purpose and is accomplishing something unseen, it is the carrying of intercession and paving the way for others to follow. In my whole extended family I am the only ‘priest’ so it falls to me by default. Well as I’m wanting to get across that Jordan, I am encouraging myself in remembering this, and that one day I will reach the other side safely, just like that tightrope walker did depending on Jesus. Thank you for letting me spout on, and I’m sure I’m not the only one!

  392. watchful Apr 24th 2013

    Kitty, I’m having trouble keeping up, but will try to comment on what you have asked, just bear with me if I miss anything.

    A big Amen to your post that started out addressed to GaryB, very nicely and sweetly said. And I will just add that I have seen it happen time and time again whenever there is discussion about false teachers, that the enemy’s tactic (not flesh & blood) is to try and stonewall and distract from those false teachers and put the spotlight on “you” and undermine or discourage “you” from speaking, because you are warning or supporting the warnings. I could only wish they would put their spotlight back on topic and criticize and warn and admonish and ask similar questions of those false teachers, since the topic being discussed is false teachers, and not “you”.

    ok, as to thanking the buzzard, I will have to think on that one sister! Because the danger of course is in crossing the line into worshiping the created thing as opposed to the creator. Something our native people’s had fallen into, sadly. But the Lord showed me once that it is His love that sustains all creation even plants…..I never used to be able to grow houseplants, they would just die, until that revelation came, and suddenly now because of love, His love (not mine because I obviously didn’t have any), they flourish just fine, effortlessly.

    Now best for last……speaking of “food” sacrificed to idols……just yesterday morning or maybe the night before I was looking up where it says concerning food, that everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial…….either for the one eating or the one seeing you eat……so always be guided by the Holy Spirit rather than our own curiosity as to how something might “taste”. Our minds like sheep like to wander at their own will, but better to stay within the Shepherd’s sheepfold (like Paul knowing nothing but Christ and Him crucified) and only go to those pastures where He leads us.

    When I was a child, I was allowed to go and wander around the neighbourhood and in the woods with nobody keeping tabs on me, and ended up hurt one day. I had all this freedom and thought I enjoyed it, but didn’t even realize until adulthood that I had felt unloved and neglected as a result, until the Father showed me that and came in and healed me. So I think my mind grew up the same way, having a tendency to wander all over the universe, but not knowing the embrace of His loving arms saying, this far and no further, for your own good my child, and let me be the one who will take you and be with you wherever you need to go. I think ultimately it is the difference between the Tree of Knowledge and Tree of Life. Hope that makes sense, it is just something He showed me recently it is so hard to put it into words.

  393. Intercessor Apr 24th 2013

    Thank you for that scripture Andrew, which has ministered to me.

    ‘Though He slay me, I will hope in him’.

    That is my choice and the only way for me.

  394. watchful Apr 24th 2013

    Yes, it is so true that we have failed Him….the church has sometimes pointed fingers at Israel and their failures, not realizing that the gentile church has failed in exactly the same ways…exactly why those things were written for our ensample. But there is something I believe the Father is working out, a mystery in that He has bound all men over to disobedience, in their turn, so that He may have mercy on them all, in the end. Meantime though we each must look to our own individual walk, because this life is short for each of us, and night cometh when we can work no longer but will either sleep or be caught up if we are ready.

  395. Intercessor Apr 24th 2013

    Dear Watchful,

    I relate very much to your post to Randall.

    In this never-ending valley of Baca that Andrew mentioned above, I’ve had to know that Christ’s grace is sufficient for me.

    All my own hopes, dreams, plans and ambitions are dead. There is only one thing that gets me up every morning, and that is for the souls God has given for me to do it for…. And only because that is what He wants.

    It is all worth it for a soul, and if I knew years ago then that my choices would take me through what I’ve been through, I would choose it all over again…

    Because His grace HAS been sufficient, and He has been my hope to get through each day..

    The only time I soar above this valley is when in the anointing… It is then that I realise that my sorrow has been turned into joy, and that out of the scars of suffering has brought authority…

    The suffering has been intercession for my ‘inner circle’ – those who are closest to me that I long to be reconciled to or saved – my family. (Like Joseph)

    The ‘soaring’ or fruit of it is when others drink from the overspill, and my labour/burdens/intercession is left in the car for me to pick back up when I am through with being with ones who do not resist me & my Lord. In those moments, I think, “Wow, I’m free! So fearlessly free! Free to even do ‘normal’ things”. And stand back looking in wonder at the Lord’s ministry through me.

    It is a choice every time, as I know there is no way I can cope with doing any ‘normal’ thing (like shopping, taking my children to their activities, being around other people…) because all my strength is gone, and the Lord has to be my strength in order for me to function…. I just get through at home. The agony and anguish is there the moment I wake up, and so I choose to put my hope in Him to get up, let alone make it through each step of the day.

    Compared with you I’m lucky in that I can worship the Lord out loud (which always strengthens me to be able to drive anywhere, or do anything physically demanding), but I have been in the position of yours where all communication could only be inwardly. I pray that you will find another place to be alone with the Lord. The car is a good place. Anointed music helps you to worship when you have nothing to give, or no strength left.

    This will minister: Look up ‘The Washtub Vision’ by Hollie Moody. After we’ve gone through the wringer and are hung out to dry, it is only His Spirit that breathes life into us – His anonting. We are trained to be obedient to His every little command through this death.

    Heb. 5:8 ‘Although a Son, He learned obedience through suffering.’

    And on the topic of financial provision… In the place of obedience and surrendering to Christ’s death in our lives, there is no question that He will provide. I expect it from Him even. It is matter of fact. It must be a confidence before God that He will provide our meal when we have nothing in the cupboards, or petrol for my tank. He does it every day, and I pray we all will know the place George Mueller walked in.

    I say, “Lord, I need this. Or Father, we’re running short of…” And I don’t even need to check, knowing it’s there. And it is there… every time.

    That is part of the wages Watchful of your surrendering to this valley :,)

    I hope I have encouraged you a bit.

    Thinking of you.

  396. Intercessor Apr 24th 2013

    By the way, love the parable of the guy crossing the Niagra Falls.

    Thank you Jesus.

  397. Barry Schmidt Apr 24th 2013

    jda016- good word Bro!

    When I read your post this is what came to my mind:

    Most false teachers come from “your own number”. Wolves come as sheep, a weed is planted by the enemy and sprouts up among the wheat, the sons of the devil grow up in the same household as the sons of God and the serpent always speaks in God’s name.
    Paul warned the elders of the church in Ephesus:
    “men will arise from your own number speaking perverse things in order to draw men after them.”

    When the disciples asked Jesus what was the sign of His coming and that the end was near, this was Jesus NUMBER ONE sign of His coming:

    ” watch out that no one deceives you for many will come IN MY NAME saying, “I am Christos ( saying I am anointed) and will deceive many”

    I did a study into the Greek and the above translation is actually the closest to what Jesus said. “I am The Christ” in the Greek is literally , “I am anointed” the Greek word for Christ is simply “anointed”

    They will say, “I am anointed ” I find it interesting how in no other time in church history do so many professors in Christ use this phrase to describe themselves, ” I have have a Christos ( the anointing) or “I am Christos” (I am anointed).

    Jesus wasn’t saying EVERYONE who claims to have the annointing will deceive many (in that case you would have to assume everyone who claims to be Spirit filled is a deceiver). Rather Jesus is saying that the MAIN group of deceives in the last day will come from those who say, ” I am anointed” ( the main group of deceives in the last hour will be from among the Spirit filled group of believers).
    Not only that but Jesus in the same passage says they ” will perform many signs and wonders” . Who but those in our Spirit filled circles are doing the signs and wonders?

    Clearly we are seeing unfold before our eyes as never before in history of the church those who claim to be anointed, who are doing signs and wonders in Jesus name YET WHO ARE DECEIVING MANY. Are not most of these so called prosperity preachers among those who claim to be anointed ?

    Having said that there are some who are changing and who are more and more aligning their teachings with the true faith and I sense it is important to not clump all together and to not leave room for growth in truth. Who of us have always held to and taught sound doctrine and then The Lord showed us the way more accurately? ( Apollos was just such a man)!
    The other point that comes to mind is that a man can teach according to the faith accurately in many areas and yet have some areas of his teaching that remain in error. It is wise therefore to accept a teacher on the basis of change and the basis of where he is accurate in truth.
    I believe Creflo Dollar is such a man. He has always taught many good accurate and profitable doctrines and has changed and repented a great deal in regards to accurately teaching the biblical doctrines of grace instead of self effort religion. He has also been emphasizing wealth less and less. Has anyone actually listened to this mans teaching lately?

    Nevertheless the above noted last day sign, according to Jesus, is the FIRST AND MOST PROMINENT SIGN of His coming and that ” all these things are about to be fulfilled”

    Cool eh?
    Amen! Maranatha!!!

  398. Barry Schmidt Apr 24th 2013

    Watchful-You asked a question of Randal that provoked some response in me. The question your asked was: “How do we get to that Randall?” ( assuming you meant to Randall’s spontaneous and heartfelt joy in the midst of circumstances that are less than ideal).

    For me The Lord has taught me this simple truth. In every situation I ALWAYS HAVE TWO CHOICES: 1. To respond MYESLF ( my way, my emotions,my thoughts on it) OR 2. I can yield to Jesus response to it ( His thoughts, His emotions and His response to it )
    My way or the HIGHER WAY!
    To me this is the essence of what Jesus was saying when he said, “If anyone would come after Me he must deny himself and take up his cross dailyn and follow Me.”

    I find in this simple WAY I can enter into Jesus unspeakable joy and fullness of glory RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF circumstances that are difficult, painful, sorrowful or negative.
    I find I will be right in then middle of some train of thought and the accompanying emotions and The Lord will say, ” Barry are those MY thoughts and emotions or YOURS?” And I have to admit, ” Lord they are MINE! I choose this moment to deny myself in order to yield to YOUR thoughts and emotions.,
    And I find myself filled with all joy and peace instantly!
    Try it! You will like it!

  399. Praise the Lord Intercessor… :-)

  400. It’s good to testify of our love towards the Lord, it releases us… :-)

  401. Where would we be without the joy of the Lord eh Randall? :-)

  402. Sorry eh Barry… :-)

  403. I’ve found in my intercession towards you and your family Intercessor that a corner has been turned…

    I’ve been experiencing the joy of the Lord on your (corporate) behalf…

    You will begin to see this manifest in the natural…

    Praise You Jesus… :-)

  404. The proportion of your weeping Intercessor is the proportion of your blessing – that is how greatly used of God your family (in unity) will be in bring blessing to others…

    There is a real purity and blessing over your family (husband, wife and children) to bring honour to the Lord…

    I have seen that and have been experiencing that…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  405. bring blessing… :-)

  406. bringing… :-)

  407. Andrew got it right.
    THE JOY OF THE LORD IS MY STRENGTH.
    God inhabits the PRAISES OF HIS PEOPLE.
    Grace………………its all about GRACE.
    About GOD and HIS FORGIVNESS TOWARDS one
    as wicked as i was.
    INSTEAD of HELL……………….instead of letting a
    wicked man like me remain in darkness
    ONE DAY HE GAVE GRACE and i was LED TO HIM.
    FOCUS ON THAT.
    And THEN realize, were it not for GODS GRACE daily
    i would long ago have been lost.
    GODS continual reminder to me, to walk the straight and narrow.
    GRACE.
    Though i do have much sorrow and heaviness at times
    THIS sorrow does not extend TO ME
    BUT TOWARDS those who simply wont come to CHRIST
    that they could have life.
    and SORROW for those who wont put down traditions of men
    when it contradicts scripture.
    SORROW……………….because i know the end for them
    is death, lest they repent.
    And i have resentment towards the evils in my own flesh.
    the evil that always tries to get us all off track.
    BUT i am finding daily………………..that WE DO HAVE THE PPOWER to KILL all evil thoughts even, to bring
    all thoughts captive to the obediance of CHRIST.
    so many of us have heard we cannot stop sinning.
    BUT IN CHRIST , I BELIEVE all things to be possible.
    THIS last part is setting me free of all things.
    and giving me reason to REJOICE
    JESUS came to set us FREE………………..

  408. Hallelujah Randall… :-)

  409. Watchful you will LEARN and GROW much quicker
    IF you put down all other reads,
    and READ ONLY THE BIBLE and INCREASE that reading time.
    Reading JESUS WORDS
    then the apostels, men who had overcame temptations and trials.
    WE WILL LEARN FROM THEM.
    What man has made confusing in churches and his own
    man reasonings……………GOD CAN SET YOU FREE FROM.
    the confusions will DIE and the TRUTH will harbor GROWTH in YOU. THIS GRACE, the GOD put me ONLY IN THE BIBLE
    and no other teacher but HIM
    HAS SET ME FREE.
    ITS not that we dont have , or shouldnt have teachers.
    ITS just that everywhere one looks
    the teachers of today are mixing truth with lies
    and this is dangerous.
    GO back to the FIRST LOVE
    where its all about GOD and read the bible for HIS TRUTH.
    JUST TO LEARN of HIM. and HE shall give you understanding.
    SEEK HIS WILL, and die to self.
    HE will change you.
    THEN as you learn, you will grow, and you will see
    that no matter what hardships, trials, pains, sufferings
    await…………………..ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER for GOOD to those who love GOD.
    YOU will see this. HAPPY is the man whom the LORD corrects,
    and JOB said that while enduring pains we have not yet faced.
    When you truly understand………………that all things work together for good to those who love GOD
    in EVERY TRIAL or HARSHIPS, many of which none of us has yet faced, YET paul speaks of them
    and in acts we see a TRUE FREEDOM in these men.
    Because they knew……………THAT IN those suffereings
    GOD was counting them worthy to suffer shame for his name.
    OR as JESUS said……………….all those who bear fruit
    are PURGED that they bear MORE FRUIT.
    its all ABOUT HAVING THE HEART ABOVE.
    LET nothing here, matieral have any HOLD on you.
    LET it GO.
    FIND the TRUE BLESSING JESUS SPEAKS OF
    TIS BETTER TO GIVE THAN TO RECIEVE.
    LET GODS LOVE PERFECT YOU.
    THIS is LIFE and LIFE ABUNDANTELY.
    You asked HOW can we do this…………….
    SEEK GOD WITH THE WHOLE HEART
    and HE SHALL CHANGE YOU.
    HE WILL GIVE YOU NEW DESIRES .
    and they will be HEAVENLY desires.
    ASK and YOU SHALL RECIEVE
    ASK GOD to give you a NEW HEART pleasing unto HIM
    ASK HIM to burn out what is NOT OF HIM.
    TRUST HIM. HE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST.
    Be blessed.

  410. CHRIST ……………………..
    there is NO GREATER TEACHER.
    even all the apostles could ONLY DO and TEACH
    BY HIS SPIRIT WITHIN.
    But these men had overcame many trials and harships
    we have not yet faced………………
    YET THEY HAD GREAT HOPE AND JOY .
    LEARN from their letters to the churches.
    PETER was wise enough to tell the church
    WE HAVE THE MORE SURE WORD of PROPHECY.
    TAKE HEED UNTO IT………………WE WERE WITH HIM
    and SAW HIS GLORY on the MOUNT.
    YET todays teachers , all believe they know more
    YET have faced NO HARDSHIPS
    and it can bee seen quite quickly that their teachings
    contradict JESUS WORDS.
    these men or most of them, of THESE DAYS
    HAVE NO TRUTH likethe apostels of OLD DAYS………..
    YET make claims to new revealtions daily
    and this would be great……………..IF THEY DIDNT CONTINUALLY CONTRADICT JESUS OWN WORDS.
    WE must be made wise unto our salvation
    or we shall fall for anything.
    MAKE your calling and election SURE………………
    DO as JESUS said to do……….
    and DONT DO what he said NOT TO DO.
    Todays mentaility is GOD LOVES me………………he wants me rich, he wants me happy with my cares in this life.
    HE wont let me go through the TRIBULATION
    cause GOD dont appoint us to wrath, etc, etc……….
    NOTICE………………..the last generation SEEMS to be OVER PRIVIELGED, while the FIRST GENERATION apostles
    SUFFERED. SOMETING IS BAD WRONG IN THEM.
    WE DO GO THROUGH TRIBULATIONS
    and as for BEING RICH……………….LET us hear what GOD CALLS RICH VERSUS WHAT MAN CALLS RICH.
    lesson of today……..
    GOD SAYS to one church(smyrna)
    I know thy works, and TRIBULATION, and POVERTY
    BUT THOU ART RICH.
    WOW……………….now that aint mans reasonings.
    NOW let us look at laodiciea
    first off he calls them LUKEWARM
    then he goes on to say this
    Because thou sayest, I AM RICH, and increased with goods
    and have NEED of nothing. and KNOWEST NOT
    that thou art wretched, miserable, and poor blind and naked.
    NOW everyone LOOK at GODS ADVICE TO THEM
    I C O U N S L E thee to BUY OF ME…………….GOLD TRIED in the
    FIRE………………SO THAT YOU MAY BE RICH,(like smyrna……)
    GOLD tried in the FIRE is our TRIALS

    DO take note HE TELLS THE CHURCH
    as many as i LOVE, i REBUKE and CHASTEN;
    be zealous therefore and repent.
    or as paul would say , wherefore if ye be without chastisment
    YE ARE BASTARDS and not SONS.
    PAUL makes it clear…………..WHEN we are JUDGED OF GOD
    we are CHASTENED OF HIM
    so that we are NOT CONDMENED with the rest of the world.
    HE makes it clear………….TIS THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD that we suffer for the kingdom.
    OR in acts…………….THAT THROUGH MUCH TRIBULATION
    we should enter the KINGDOM
    or peters constant warnings of all who live GODLY shall suffer persecutions.
    NOW……………..my question is………….
    WHAT message are we hearing FROM THE PROSPERITY PREACHERS ………………
    THUS understand………………….they are NOT OF GOD.
    BUT of the flesh………….and the RICHES of the EARTH they do seek, NOT THE RICHES OF GOD.
    they can appera as ministirs of righteousness………..
    they do come with some truth, YET they desires are a SNARE on the soul. to deliver them unto the PIT……………….
    GET FAR FROM THESE MEN OF BELIAL…………..
    AMEN.

  411. Everything we need for life and godliness has been given to us through our knowledge – our personal, intimate relationship – of Him who called us to His own Glory and Goodness… :-)

    Anyone who is asking for financial support is not trusting God… :-)

  412. And neither is anyone who is forcing the members of their fellowship to give… :-)

  413. heres a lil telling…
    THE FATHER tells his son…………….
    son i am your provider, give freely as you have been given,
    always do more for others than for you. seek their welfare above your own, and be content with such things as you have.
    FOR i will NEVER leave you nor forsake you.
    DO this and the reward shall be great, ye shall be rich indeed.
    Tis far greater a blessing to give than to recieve.
    HE send his son to the store to get ONE CANDY.
    Upon entering the store…………….the boy gets his candy
    and buys it. another boy comes in who has nothing.
    The boy decides he should hold onto his candy and not give.
    THEN crawls the serpent and says to the boy
    HAS your Father NOT said to give and ye shall be RICH
    THE boy says well yes serpent he did say that.
    the serpent says………………Give to that boy and you
    i will give you THREE bars…………
    WOW says the BOY , and quickly GIVES to the one who lacked NOTHING.
    UPON entering the HOUSE the Father askes the son
    WHY DO YOU HAVE three candys……….
    and the boy said FATHER i did as you said
    I gave to him that lacked and i got much MORE abundance of candy.
    THE FATHER PULLED OUT HIS BELT.
    MY question to you all is WHY DID THE FATHER PULL OUT HIS BELT…………………………
    THE WHY was THE REASON , or intent the boy gave
    and WHERE HIS HEART WAS.
    HE DID NOT GIVE TO THE BOY WHO LACKED
    because HE LACKED…………
    HE GAVE to GET MORE.
    so his LOVE was of his GOODS , NOT for the BOY who lacked.
    SEE THE PROBLEM in THE PROSPERITY GOSPLE.
    they HEART IS ON MONEY………………THEY GIVE to RECIEVE MORE MONEY…………………THAT is love alright
    BUT ITS OF MONEY NOT PEOPLE.
    THEY of satan and i will WARN OF THEM.
    amen.

  414. now, make no mistake……………..i
    understand GOD can increase earthly riches
    i know that can happen.
    BUT WHEN THEY DO………………SET NOT YOUR HEART UPON THEM……….
    SIMPLY GIVE to those who lack
    expecting NOTHING(prosperity preachers dont preach the NOTHING PART) and great shall your reward be IN HEAVEN.
    i promise the love , desire of money, is the ROOT of all evil.
    from this stems ALL EVIL……………all wars, all fightings
    tis of COVETOUSNESS, and NOT BEING CONTENT.
    JESUS gave us TRUTH on HIS SERMON
    LET US give those things NO THOUGHTS
    and GIVE FREELY in ALL THINGS as we have been GIVEN.
    THE early Church was about GOD and men.
    and this can be seen, the affections were above
    they knew of the treasures above
    thus those who had abundance sold lands and possessions
    and those who lacked………………..WERE GIVEN
    all were equal and all Had hopes above.
    GET THAT MINDSET.
    course their was problems back then too.
    BUT the difference of back then was
    THEY HAD SEASON MEN OF GOD
    who warned the unruly or disobediant
    TODAY ITS…………….GOD LOVES EVERYONE
    and none warn of sin, etc.
    SEE THE PROBLEM………….TIS WHY the leaven WAXED so fat.
    NONE warn…………none make effort to destroy the leaven.
    and over time ……………….leaven not being stopped
    SWELLS to MASS PROPORTIONS…………..unto TODAY.
    WE IN THE LAST DAYS……………….
    AMEN.

  415. Everything we need for life and godliness has been given to us through our knowledge – our personal, intimate relationship – of Him who called us to His own Glory and Goodness…

    Anyone who is asking for financial support is not trusting God…

    ANDREW is CORRECT on this.
    BUT do let me ADD…………..
    the problem came from covetousness
    instead of giving to those who lacked
    the greedy men of days gone by, simply said ASK GOD
    he will provide.
    WE see the LOVE OF GOD NOT IN THEM
    IF GODS PEOPLE TOOK CARE OF THEIR OWN
    NONE WOULD LACK.
    so , if a brother or sister has a NEED,
    then ASK another BROTHER or sister for help.
    and if any sees one who lacks and turns his eyes
    HE IS NOT OF GOD,
    THIS is so simple to understand.
    IF we would BE AS CHRIST
    none of our brethren WOULD lack.
    course neither would we STORE UP HERE
    we couldnt, we would give it to the ones who truley lacked.
    ARE WE seeing the PROBLEM
    now we KNOW the WHY so many miracles and etc
    aint being done . CAUSE OF THE LACK OF TRUE FAITH.
    DO as JESUS said to do………….
    DO as JESUS said to DO
    LIVE the sermon on the mount.
    be CONTENT with such things as you have
    and BE READY TO GIVE and do so CHEERFULLY unto those who lack. amen.
    BUT never GIVE to the RICH……………..tis a snare upon the soul
    that is in proverbs i believe.
    FOR why do many give to these RICH MEN
    becuse they deisree to be as they are …………..wealthy, abundant etc. SEE again the problem.
    LEARN to be content…………………..and give that abundance away to those who truly do have need
    GREAT shall your treasures be in heaven
    and COME FOLLOW CHRIST………………
    the early church still LIVES……………………….
    but they are few and spread abroad……………
    and soon persecutions are coming on a scale such as never been before……….no nor ever shall be again.
    I say we focus as a CHURCH, and GO OUT walking as dID JESUS
    who resisted not evil, but gave place
    who prayed for his enemies to be forgiven
    as did stephen.
    IF we would but SEEK the LORD from a whole heart
    and LEARN of HIM…………….what jOY could abound
    through all times whether good or bad.
    Never belive i judge those evil men.
    I know i was far worse than many.
    BUT I DO and WILL WARN stay far from they lies. amen.

  416. WHEN one comes to GOD
    and is changed…………….HE WONT WANT TO HOLD ON TO
    those possessions
    HE WILL have a true LOVE and a hunger for helping those who truly do lack.
    AS DID CHRIST.
    who placed ALL OTHERS WELFARE ABOVE HIS OWN.
    GET THAT MINDSET……………..THE MIND OF CHRIST.
    I love you all. I truly hope many were encouraged today.
    I hate strifes and divisions.
    LET us grow in Grace…………..let us obtain knowlege
    let us read the scrips which make us wise unto salvation through our faith in Christ.
    I love you all, and i say TODAY let all who has BREATH
    PRAISE THE LORD.
    HIS MERICIES and COMPASSIONS are daily.
    YALL……………………JUST raise up your hands
    and simply PRAISE THE LORD and JOY and REJOICE in HIM
    AMEN.

  417. Randell Lowrey; I really like your posts, they are almost like poems or songs. Good words……good meanings.

  418. And neither is anyone who is forcing the members of their fellowship to give…

    AGAIN ANDREW IS RIGHT.
    And i would only add
    that we should always encourage one another
    to give and do good works.
    LIKE JESUS said……………GIVE unto HIM WHO LACKS.
    and paul and them told the church
    about giving. DO it CHEERFULLY……………….
    Always remind them of JESUS WORDS, remind them
    to do more for others…………not to store up etc.
    ALL of us needs REMINDING
    even the ones REMINDING are being REMINDED when they remind. EVERYTIME i say something by the spirit,
    words of edification etc………………I am being REMINDED
    very strongly at the same time TO DO THE SAME THINGS.
    WE NEED this. OUR flesh is contrary……….
    and we NEED be our brothers keeper. Be blessed.
    one quick reminder
    PAUL was so concerend about covetousness
    he wanted the money stored up before he came there
    so as it would be a matter of bounty and not as of covetousness.
    YETTODAY………………..these men beg and lie and promise
    ya aunt sally gonna be healed if ya give to their minisitry.
    THAT IS EXTORTION………………..and the bible says
    DONT EVEN EAT with one like that.
    GIVE. and ya babys sisiters aunts cat will be healed.
    WHEN DID JESUS SAY THAT
    did he tell the BLIND MAN…………..FIRST GIVE YE ME MONEY
    then GO TO THE POOL OF SILAOM
    or did PETER AND JOHN……….WHO HAD NO GOLD OR SILVER , i might add, say to the poor man
    GIVE and ye shall walk.
    .
    HERES a lil telling i heard.
    theres two rich deacons walking by and see a poor crippled man.
    they remember the words of peter and john
    who said SILVER AND GOLD have we none , but what we have , THAT we give unto thee…………
    Both men were quite pleased, and said……….WELL
    praise the LORD……………NOW a days we have plenty of silver and gold……….GOD has blessed us
    we can NO LONGER say SILVER and GOLD have we none…….
    and they took joy n the gold and silver ……….
    As they walked on by the poor crippled man.
    FOR you see saints…………
    they could no longer say that they lacked silver and gold.
    but they couldnt say ARISE AND WALK either.
    SO……………….is GOD STILL WITH THEM……………..
    NO……………….for they abandoned HIM for money.
    IF ya coming FOR JESUS FOR MONEY…………..HE AINT YA GOD
    MONEY IS……………….HOW TRUE THAT IS.

  419. Kitty …………………….
    if you have time today………………..BRING us a GOOD psalm
    that brings JOY to the group.
    Sandra does at times………….
    its always SO GOOD to hear the wonderful words
    of truth. amen.

  420. Thank you, Watchful; You truly speak from your heart…..wise words. Also, your words about God’s arms, He truly does hold us all who need Him, close, securely wrapped in His arms tucked beneath His chin as He walks us through our life of learning.

    PS: I was thanking the real buzzards in our hollow, not the “parable examples”! 😉

    Thank you for the good music, Andrew Horton, nice to listen to it as I read posts.

  421. Intercessor; I hope this doesn’t sound rude, but how awesome to be totally outside of the hopes, dreams, plans, and ambitions you had for yourself…because that brings you totally within God’s. Keep enduring to the end, such a great Reward awaits!

  422. We are to see our brothers and sisters needs and to supply them out of the bounty of our hearts – not because they’ve “demanded” us to… :-)

    I believe that is what our brother Randall is sharing with us… :-)

  423. You are welcome Kitty… :-)

  424. This is for you Randall Lowrey; God helped me write it in 2002, actually He pretty much did it all! 😉

    CHRIST’S GLORIOUS TASK

    In the clearing of man’s decay,
    The Son found me on that fateful day.
    A child, lost, no chance to grow;
    Struck down by God’s jealous evil foe.
    Dead in this life, arms raised to Him;
    To be reborn and freed from sin,
    forever more preserved,
    And sactified in His Holy Word.
    To His heart I was embraced,
    and in His arms I’ve found my place,
    Near His heart, close, warm and safe.
    A product of His loving Grace.
    He showed me an image of what I was;
    A corpse so dead and without love.
    He showed me now just where I am;
    Tucked with love beneath His chin.
    He showed me what I am to be;
    My life in all His Eternity.
    There’s nothing here to compare,
    To the promises waiting there.

    I WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL YOUR NEEDS.
    JUST LOVE MY PEOPLE WHILE YOU’RE HERE.
    FOR WHAT’S TO COME IS YET TO BE.
    I NEED YOU HERE TO PLANT THE SEEDS.

    When He has completed me,
    An offering to our Father I will be.
    Crystal clear, a child of Living glass,
    LIGHT reflecting in Christ’s Glorious Task.

    I still cry when I read it because of memories. I had for many years wanted to express in poem the Dream He gave me which showed me in a parable our transformation process resulting in our eternal body that will be like Christ’s, and I am not a poet. I still remember making an appointment with Him, to sit down and write. Took a few hours, tears, love, unbounding joy to be working with Him, getting the words from Him, replacing the stupid ones I came up with!

  425. Intercessor Apr 24th 2013

    Thank you Andrew.

    I love you.

  426. Intercessor Apr 24th 2013

    Thank you too Kitty for your encouragement.

  427. Praise the Lord Intercessor, I love you too… :-)

  428. Lift up the Name of Jesus in this place… Let the Name of Jesus be lifted up in this place… Establish Your Presence here Lord, Let Your Name be lifted up…

    Praise the Lord!
    Sing to the Lord a new song,
    And His praise in the congregation of the godly ones.
    Let Israel be glad in his Maker;
    Let the sons of Zion rejoice in their King.
    Let them praise His name with dancing;
    Let them sing praises to Him with timbrel and lyre.
    For the Lord takes pleasure in His people;
    He will beautify the afflicted ones with salvation.
    Let the godly ones exult in glory;
    Let them sing for joy on their beds.
    Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
    And a two-edged sword in their hand,
    To execute vengeance on the nations
    And punishment on the peoples,
    To bind their kings with chains
    And their nobles with fetters of iron,
    To execute on them the judgment written;
    This is an honor for all His godly ones.
    Praise the Lord!
    (Psalm 149 NASB)

    What an awesome God You are!

    You are our Defender and the Lifter of our head…

    The Lifter of our head…

    Hallelujah Lord!!!

    We worship You…

    Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
    (Psalm 68:18 KJV)

    Thank You Jesus… :-)

  429. we as teachers of the word must teach against the false prosperity message…whether or not names should be named will be directed to the individual by the Holy Spirit..I for one would name there names and I would do it to their faces…what has been perpetrated on the masses in the United States is absolutely a tragegy…And as the father of a biracial son,and white,i would like to add the following…I went to a mostly African American Church service recently…I watched as the well known pastor who is on tv every weekend,opened his message by saying,” your dreams are painted on the canvas of your imagination” and if they do not transpire then the devil is trying to kill your dreams” My reaction to this was to almost get physically sick. I was invited there by a new convert who came to work one Monday and walked around the office telling each and every employee that he was baptized on Sunday and would be following Jesus from now on.When I heard him say this I immediately was drawn to him and quieitly told him I was as his service to answer any questions etc…in his immaturity he wanted me to join him at a service at “his church” so I went…I was so grieved that this was the type of teaching he was exposed to…MY DREAMS ARE PAINTED ON TEH CANVAS OF MY IMAGINATION” REALLY? I THOUGHT MY DESTINY WAS PLANNED AND ORDAINED BY MY HEAVENLY FATHER…MY IMAGINATIONS COULD BE COMING FROM MY SOUL, OR MY FLESH OR EVEN FROM THE ENEMY..IT IS THE WORD OF GOD THAT DIVIDES BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT,,BONE AND MARROW,,IT IS THE WORD OF GOD THAT REVEALS THE HIDDEN THINGS…I WANT GOD TO LEAD ME NOT MY IMAGINATION…I WATCHED AS PEOPLE ALL AROUND THIS SERVICE APPLAUDED AND SAID AMEN TO THIS FALSE AND MISGUIDED MESSAGE…AND I REALIZED THIS ISNT THE FIRST TIME IVE HEARD THIS GARBAGE AT A MOSTLY AFRICAN AMERICAN SERVICE…I WAS GRIEVED AND SICKENED…AND IN MY SPIRIT I CRIED OUT TO GOD TO DELIVER US FROM SUCH HERESY…MAYBE SONGS LIKE THIS WILL HELP…I FOR ONE WILL SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE..AND IF GOD LEADS ME TO NAME NAMES I WILL DO SO…PAUL CORRECTED PETER..I AM OPEN TO CORRECTION AT ANY TIME BECAUSE I WANT THE TRUTH.. AND THE TRUTH IS THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST…

    AS FOR JOYCE MEYERS…I DONT KNOW IF THIS IS THE REASON SHE WAS NAMED …BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT AN INDEPENDENT MINISTRY FORMED YEARS AGO TO ASK AND ENCOURAGE ALL LARGE MINISITRIES TO OPEN AND PUBLISH THEIR BOOKS SO AS TO QUENCH THE ACCUSATIONS OF FLEECING….NOT ONE SINGLE LARGE MINISTRY IN AMERICA AGREED……EXCEPT ONE…AND THAT WAS BILLY GRAHAM . JOYCE MEYERS REPORTEDY TOOK IN OVER 100 MILLION THAT YEAR…AND WOULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR IT PUBLICLY..NEITHER WOULD BENNY HINN…THE LUST FOR MONEY HAS DEFILED THE AMERICAN CHURCH….IT HAS GOT TOSTOP…REPENTANCE IS THE ONLY WAY THIS NATION WILL ESCAPE JUDGEMENT imo….85 PER CENT OF AMERICANS BEILIEVE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD ,YET WE HAVE THE MOST VIOLENT SOCIETY ON EARTH….WHY? BECAUSE WE DONT TEACH PEOPLE TO BE DISCIPLES WHO ARE FILLED AND EMPOWERED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT..WE TEACH RELIGION,,AND SOWING AND HARVESTING…WE TEACH WORKS…AND SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS WITH HEAD KNOWLEDGE….LORD JESUS DELIVER US….GRANT US REPENTANCE AND ENABLE US TO BE DISCIPLENED FOLLOWERS WHO SERVE YOU IN HUMILITY.

  430. watchful Apr 25th 2013

    What a blessing to be spending time with you all! I am indeed encouraged Intercessor, thank you so much, and it means a lot to be reminded I’m not alone! Amen, Barry, and Andrew J. Kitty what was written in your poem is exactly how I see you, you remind me of the glassy sea, pure, clear and transparent. And Randall, I am always blessed and strengthened by your words, like a walking living bible. FATHER I PRAISE YOU! Thank you Lord for your dear people, I pray you will bless each one, and I mean those who are listening along as well. You know the price each one is paying to follow you oh Lord our God, and You have said that you are our very great reward…give of your strength and joy to your people, dear heavenly Father, I love them all.

  431. Thank You Jesus… :-)

  432. Awesome word; Keith Ingram. Amen, Amen,Amen!

  433. I have more to share with you Intercessor…

    In the word which I shared at the following link http://ahouseofprayerforthenations.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/speak-the-vision/ I mentioned visions which Smith Wigglesworth had for the UK…

    You will participate and be used by the Lord along with your husband and children in this revival…

    You will see a harvest reaped in the UK and you will be part of it…

    All the preparation is worth it…

    There is no hurry in God…

    Soak it in…

    He will perform it through you…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

    Preparation – that is the word for you – and Preparation can’t be hurried…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  434. Thank you, Andrew for Psalms 149. Sure hope this means we can come riding back in His army of angels, considering how Psalms 149 ended!

    Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
    And a two-edged sword in their hand,
    To execute vengeance on the nations
    And punishment on the peoples,
    To bind their kings with chains
    And their nobles with fetters of iron,
    To execute on them the judgment written;
    This is an honor for all His godly ones.
    Praise the Lord!

    I was just reading Rev. 21 about the New Jerusalem coming down, what a concept, love studying how It is put together! Anyway, I was struck by the angel that came to John to show him these things, and what the angel said to John afterwards when he threw himself at the angels feet.

    Rev. 22:9=Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

    We are going to be angels some day! Servants of God forever, worshiping Him with every fiber, thought, and movement!

  435. Father, I pray that You would show Kitty where she will be when You come down out of heaven Jesus riding on Your White Horse and please show her in Your time and for Your Glory and help her not to fret about it in the meantime until You give her this revelation… :-)

  436. I WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL YOUR NEEDS.
    JUST LOVE MY PEOPLE WHILE YOU’RE HERE.
    FOR WHAT’S TO COME IS YET TO BE.

    It is so awesome to see so many on this forum who are so trusting in Almighty God and Jesus Christ the LAMB who will sit on ONE Throne in the New Jerusalem that will descend when all is finished…ONE. So many who are full of His love and sharing with His people, and planting His Seeds, dying to your self to do a better job of it. Each of you unique flowers, planted by God where He wants you to be….your faces following His Light. And, Andrew Strom makes learning possible here by making us think upon things….as each comes here with differing experiences, and understandings regarding non-salvational things.

    Watchful, you are part of the glassy sea too! You know that! Rev.15: 2-4=And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. (I am hoping we are gathered here getting ready to come back with Christ when He tramps out the Wrath of the Vials. Thinking maybe that is what the “mingled with fire” is all about. Especially since in the previous Chapter 14 the rapture took place, when Christ was handed the cycle as He stood upon the cloud.) (opinion based on a 7th trump rapture timing).

    How awesome would that be after overcoming and enduring until the end, to be able to help come and destroy the evil upon the earth that is rampaging upon those who have not yet made the decision for God, but try to live in honor according to their understandings.

    Love you all,even if you find fault in what I just speculated. 😉

  437. Father, I would pray that you would teach Andrew how to ride a horse! 😉

  438. Very funny Kitty, Very funny (but you’re right I will need to learn how to do that – hopefully that comes naturally with my glorified body)… :-)

  439. Jda016 Apr 25th 2013

    Dear Keith,

    I have also heard things similar to what you talked about it. It is nothing but New Age. Preachers that are engrossed in new age like to say a lot of non-sensical things, which then gets “ooooo’s and ahhhhh’s” from the audience, as if what the preacher just said was made of gold.

    I see it more and more rampant and what amazes me is how many people are deceived by it. Spirits of seduction and deception run rampant with new age and the occult and I am always shocked by how many get swept up into it.

  440. watchful Apr 25th 2013

    I’d sure like to get in on some of that horse-back riding! : )

    Keith Ingram, I know how you feel, it is the antithesis of the gospel, and I can’t help but think it makes Jesus “queasy” as well.

    Amen Kitty, we shall be like the angels, and don’t necessarily have to wait til we sleep to taste of this. As for when we are caught up, I don’t have all the details by any means, and unless I was deceived in what I was shown, we are given a picture of it with Elijah and Elisha.