“PREACHERS OF L.A.” – Your Comments?


Some Christians want to stop this new Reality TV show from going to air – “Preachers of L.A.” But I say, “Let it be shown!” After all, these are actual preachers, typical of so many today, with their fancy houses and flashy cars. They wanted this Reality show, they wanted to flaunt all this stuff – let America see the kind of preachers she is producing these days! Why should this remain hidden? Let the whole church know the full extent of how far things have fallen. What are your thoughts? Should the above show be banned or not?

Posted in TV & Videos by Andrew on August 21st, 2013 at 12:13 pm.

251 comments

251 Replies

  1. some the footage looks strange. while other parts look like the Denmark guys street preaching and pray.

  2. Bill Hamilton Aug 21st 2013

    You make a good point, Andrew! I say, “John 8:32!” Bring it on!

  3. Bill Hamilton Aug 21st 2013

    Oh, one more thing. Did I understand correctly that that “pastor” who says he had a child out of wedlock is CURRENTLY living with his girlfriend (who wants him to marry him)? Whatever happened to criteria like that found in 1 Timothy 3: 7?

    “And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.”

  4. Now, some of it looks AWFUL. The part with the guy having kids out of wedlock while he was pastoring. However, the idea that we’re supposed to be poor and barely getting by is also bunk. They might be stretching it a bit, but some of what I saw didn’t look that unscriptural.

  5. Whoa!!! what can you say-except, judgement, bring it on!! Judgement brings mercy in the end! Or should I say, mercy, bring it on! after all, mercy brings the judgement of God!

  6. what’s the fruit ? does this draw people to Christ ? does this expose the true from the false. is it balanced. is the gospel portrayed in this. yes the hypocracy is exposed but it it represented as that. where is repentance? where is conviction? Does it reflect sin as sin and separate the truth from the sin? does it expose mixture as mixture and show the turning of one caught up in both the Lord and the world….
    if it is a just religious expose of corruption without truth it is just religious sensationalism and the fruit is to just build the wall higher between the real and the false for the unsaved.
    god can turn whathe enemy meant as evil into good. With hope and prayer this may happen for the lost and the messed up.
    If my people will HUMBLE themselves, seek my FACE, REPENT and turn from their wicked ways, then……

    if precedes then….
    there is a whole lot of praying for others but little humbling of self, repenting and turning to God these days…

    So the expose exists to highlight our ways /sins….
    let the Spirit of Repentance fall…with conviction and grace. Let the lost find the TRUE

  7. the white guy seems the most sincere..

  8. Let’s give the world more reason to mock Christianity. If they see this and think this is what it is all about for us, then how has Jesus been glorified? This represents a very small number of preachers but viewers are going to say, “See, they’re all like that.” No, it shouldn’t be aired. Believers ought to be going to these men and giving them the truth.

  9. ..but anyway, this all comes as a result of past legalism – it’s a “backlash” from self righteousness legalist, works preaching… and you know you’re guilty of that bro :)

  10. Bob M. Aug 21st 2013

    Although I doubt I’ll watch this show, I also definitely believe there should be no efforts to ban it. But, its also too bad this show seems to be so racially un-diverse. Someone who just casually tunes in might inaccurately determine this “prosperity” tendency exists almost exclusively with African-American pastors. I guess the case for criticism could be made that this show will primarily and wrongly embarrass the African-American community for being so foolish as to follow/believe in people like this. This tendency crosses all racial and ethnic borders. More balance would have been helpful.

  11. Utter filth. Having forsaken the “Word of Fake” and I un-affectionately call the word of faith movement, this kind of display of selfish, lust-filled, sheep murdering wolves is all that more disgusting to me. May God shine His exposing light that they may be ashamed and come to Him in humility and repentance.

  12. OF COURSE! Do NOT let this modern western christianity be promoted any longer! Many are already aware of the falling away and the famine for the Word of Yahweh…why continue to promote such blasphemy?
    You can find these preachers on TBN…that’s enough publicity. It is NOT necessary to promote their lifestyle as “flash” and “bling!”

  13. I couldn’t watch it all. Sorry, makes me want to hide somewhere and just read my bible. Making merchandise of people comes to mind. Merchandizing the gospel. There are Christian churches in Egypt being burned and people persecuted and we in America teach that we can live like kings….They are taking scripture out of context. Read the whole bible, not just a verse here and there. I agree with Andrew, it should be aired. We need to face the truth of what is happening. I too have been told to put on a good front on Facebook for instance but I can’t put on a lie. We are not the church we see in the book of Acts. We are Laodicea, the church of people’s opinions.

  14. Just more illustration of why Christianity is so frowned upon – in the USA there has even been talk of rehabilitating Christians. I believe that there is a young generation that will grow tired of ‘Christian City’ and seek to return to the ‘City of God’.
    Some food for thought, if you have never read Robert Purnell’s 1980 prophetic allegory, Escape from Christendom – see http://awildernessvoice.com/Escape.html#top . One does not have to accept everything in this dream, but there is much to make you think. I’m afraid so much of the modern corporate organisation called ‘church’ has moved far, far away from the ecclesia that the Christ came to establish.

  15. I just thought about the little story I read many years ago, about St. Francis of Assisi and someone walking outside a cathedral, when the latter person looked at the magnificent building and said: “The church can no longer say, gold and silver have I none”! According to the story St. Francis replied: “Yes, and neither can they say, In the Name of Jesus, get up and walk”.

    Whether true or not, it is once again, something to think about.

  16. Expose them…But…my initial impression is that it is largely focused on black preachers with a couple of white preachers thrown in. I agree with exposing the gold diggers and do not have a problem with doing so. But also remember, these T.V. editors are NOT believers and their intent is NOT to cast the church in a good light.
    The Church must be ready to give an answer to those who would question it’s integrity and the integrity of our Saviour. Bad leaders should be exposed, but many in the congregations are our brothers and sisters and we cannot allow the world to divide us. With the racial division that is being thrust upon this country, I see this as another of the media’s attempts to create division in the population as well as the church.
    keep yourselves pure of malice and ill will, and call the decievers to repentance.

  17. Theresa Aug 21st 2013

    Bill Hamilton.,,you heard right! Wow!!!!
    So we can say that although our God is full of love, mercy and grace, He is also a righteous Creator and therefore must sometimes execute judgment. Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
    I say this should be aired. Let the truth be known. Jesus said in Matt. 7:13 ~ “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.”

  18. And I heard another voice from the heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.” Revelation 18:4
    “…at midday along the highway, O sovereign, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying IN THE HEBREW LANGUAGE, ‘Sha’ul, Sha’ul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the prods,’ And I said, ‘Who are You, Master?’ And He said, ‘I am Yahsuah, whom you persecute.'” Acts 26:13-15
    We can begin to “come out of her” by exalting the Name of Yahweh and His Son Yahsuah…the Elohim and Messiah of Abraham, Isaac Jacob and Israel.
    The Messiah DID NOT bring religion to the earth, but fulfillment of the prophetic word and truth on how to live a life pleasing to Yahweh our Elohim.
    “But the hour is coming, and NOW IS, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him NEED TO WORSHIP in spirit and truth” John 4:23,24

  19. I believe it should be shown and exposed for what it is. Time for the church in America to actually see how far it has fallen and how ridiculous and anti Christian they have become. The wolves in sheeps clothing are in the pulpit.

  20. Banning is stupid. Unreal (against reality.)
    People have to think and decide for themselves.
    Likewise artificial propping up or protecting of situations is stupid.
    But one is up against a massive atheist budget.
    Preach the truth and may God’s will be done.
    His love keep and guide us.
    In the power and the authority of the Lord Jesus.

  21. Suzanne Aug 21st 2013

    I agree….expose it:

    Eph. 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

    1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.

    2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

    14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

  22. Let it be shown; it is real. Also the Bible says something like whether Christ is preached of contention or strife, at least He is preached. And we are to be careful how we receive the word; true seekers won’t be deceived, at least for long.

  23. angelos Aug 21st 2013

    O Lord, let the church arise! May we be a living example of Christ likeness. Help us to show our world how to walk in truth, humility, selflessness, and love. If ever there was an hour when the true Church needs to lead by example it is now! Words of criticism and judgement will have no more effect than those of prosperity and materialism. We must stand for truth and Righteousness as living stones. Words without the love and power of the Holy spirit are just as empty as those who brag on how God prospers them. Paul came in power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost, not in flashy speech. We as the church must do the same. The greatest way to discern the false, is to SEE the True in action. God Help us in America, to turn our hearts back to YOU! Send a tsunami of repentance to all of us who claim to be Christians. Come… cleanse and purify your Church while there is still time!

  24. Bobbie Stephens Aug 21st 2013

    It hurts to see the grace of God so cheapened. It would be alright if they left the name of Jesus out of it because they certainly are not preachers of the doctrine of Christ. Maybe the skeletons should be let out. Maybe America needs to see what depth they have sunk into. Only those who have an ounce of decency will see it and abhor the reality of today. Maybe, instead of turning away from God, they will begin to question their own beliefs in light of the scriptures. All I know is that these motivational speakers do not move people by the Holy Spirit but by their own fleshly desires, keen insight into the innate nature of man, and careful deceptive speech!

  25. stephen boyce Aug 21st 2013

    I have no problem providing they are preaching the true gospel even the basics repentance sin judgement gods love and mercy heaven and hell unless they become born again

  26. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    A good picture of Revelation 18. Heed the warning in verse 4. Let the TV show be aired. It can give us an entrance to explain the truth to those who will hear it.(1Pet 3:15). Those who don’t want to hear it shall bear their own load. Each person shall answer to God for what they choose to accept as truth.

  27. Why would you want this to be shone? It is not Christianity. Why couldn’t you try to get a show going about real Christianity? You, in condoning this, are condoning promoting a false gospel. I don’t think this is going to help anyone. I believe it will just give people fuel to say we are all like these people! Even in saying this the scripture comes to mind Mark 9:38-39. Don’t know if or how that applies to this situation but it came to mind so I included it.

  28. Jon Brown Aug 21st 2013

    Whole truth or half truths, this whole thing is about money. Money for the networks, money for the sponsors, money for the producers and money for the guys being focused on in this show. Problem is the a good portion of the “church” who sees this probably are already in agreement with it all or will see it as an easy way to justify what they are living for and how they are living. The “world” will just be entertained and even more turned off to the only thing they know of God. No one wins except those who are getting paid…and I wouldn’t even call them “winners” either way.

  29. Kathleen in WA State Aug 21st 2013

    Hideous. What an aberrant application of the scriptures if ever I’ve seen one. It’s a fact, so let it join the ranks of Train-Wreck TV (aka Reality TV). But it breaks my heart that so many look at this stuff & toss the baby out with the bathwater, determining all believers to be charlatans & manipulators. Sad. Very sad.

  30. Merilyn Aug 21st 2013

    There are standards set for deacons and bishops in 1 Timothy 3 – and these standard should be compared with the people in this program.
    http://www.bartleby.com/108/54/3.html

    Their actions speak louder than their words. Large expensive houses and cars is incongruant with the philosophy of Jesus. Jesus was born in a stable, and nowhere is it said that he lived in a fine house or owned a mighty chariot. Jesus did visit rich men and some didn’t wash his feet, though it was the custom. Overall, the program will turn people off Christianity and give fuel for some to criticise the church and church leaders. We are told to test the spirits and be discerning.
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4&version=ESV

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

    There area some preachers who do appear to confess that Jesus Christ has come, but then they seem to get sidetracked with their wealth. There are more than just theses preachers who get sidetracked by their wealth – same has been seen in Australia, Africa etc, and if they repent, they will be forgiven. At least some are confessing Jesus Christ, which is better than the soft mouthed versions of preachers that don’t want to offend anyone.

  31. The Bible tells us that God will not be mocked. They are fleecing the sheep and by doing so they are slinging mud on Jesus. Judgement straight ahead! There is no fear of God or discernment in the Church. Lovers of self rather than lovers of God.

  32. Mary-Claire from Switzerland Aug 21st 2013

    This is really terrible but, sadly, this circus is going on for real and passing off as the church and these showmen are passing off as pastors. I think this show should be aired as it is so fake that real sincere christians cannot be fooled by this stuff, it could even help show the world, by contrast, what the real Church, the body of Christ is all about!

  33. I have one word “LAODICEANS”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  34. This makes me want to vomit. I don’t think it should be banned, however, my concern is this, the world sees this filth and believes falsely that this is what a true Christian looks like. It breaks my heart. The true follower of Jesus looks nothing like this but how will the world know until they see us walking like Jesus. My heart breaks for the church of Jesus Christ. Perhaps this show will cause the True Church to stand up and shout from the rooftops that this is not the way of Jesus.

  35. Victor Aug 21st 2013

    I think any bad publicity is good publicity. The American church doesn’t want its sins exposed. The American church wants to continue to pretend that everything is fine, that nothing’s wrong. But, the whole thing stinks, and it will never be resolved until the whole thing comes crashing to the ground. American Christians treat the institution of church as a greater god than God Himself. They worship the idea of who they think they are more than they worship God, but they think they are worshipping God the whole time. This explains it all very well in Isaiah 1…
    “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

    12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

    13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

    14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

    15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

    16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

    17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.”

    I don’t believe God is pleased with our church services. It’s all a big show. We don’t live out the things we rejoice over in sermons. It’s what the Bible calls having our ears tickled. We don’t meet in order to create plans of action, but instead just to feel good about the fact that we all agree on Biblical doctrine. I can’t even go on with this. The whole thing stinks. There’s nothing good about, because as a jar full of water with 2 percent poison is poisonous, so is this system of the church with foundations of humanism and covetousness.

  36. Go ahead let it be shown… Help Satan spread this filth! It should NOT be shown, because too many will not even see the real Jesus and his utter humility. Why do the needy for Christ always want to see the COUNTERFEIT instead of studying the REAL deal?

    1Tim. 6:4-5 …He [a false teacher] has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

  37. I say: Bring it on.!!!.

    Perhaps one or two will wake up to the reality of what is happening in our country. How far we have fallen from the truth of scripture. Straining on gnats swallowing camels, swallowing and following any and everything, drifting further and further away from a true Biblical foundation.

    No longer should this be tolerated by the TRUE Church of Jesus Christ.

    Bring it on.!!!.

  38. Christa Aug 21st 2013

    What would Jesus do? Did Jesus live like this? Anyone one who thinks that we should pursue money and riches has not read the gospel of Jesus Christ and believed it.

    Judgment begins at the house of God and God is lifting the churches skirts for all to be exposed and be ashamed. This is the great falling away for those with eyes to see it.

  39. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    Phil 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I there in do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

    Any who believe the preachers on this show do so at their own risk, there is truth out there, in fact, the truth is already within them, their conscience, whether they ignor it or not.
    We must be the ones to spread the truth, each of us on a personal level. One to One can spread the truth faster than any tv show can spread lies.

  40. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

    It is up to us to be ready to spread the truth to those who ask us.

    We must first be living out the truth, so that others can see hope in us.

  41. Aussie Aug 21st 2013

    Guess those homey’s ain’t never read the book of James.
    Weep and howl you rich fat cats for the miseries that are coming upon you. James 5:1

    “And forget repentance brother, your saaavvveeeddd!”

    “When will the true prophets of God stand up?” Andrew Strom 2005 – Thundering in Nashville

    Andrew I ain’t forgotten my friend – By God’s grace He is giving this one some legs lately, I hope it is true for others. Maybe He is saving His true voices up for when it gets real bad (like now) and we will have many Mount Carmel’s across the earth. I hope so because can it get much worse.

    I might also add, they could go to Nigeria and make a similar show.

  42. People, of course real Christians will discern false teachers… The point is that those who have an infinitely better need than real believers to know Christ will not see Him in a “reality show” made by unbelievers for profit.

    Regarding Ali’s comment… People don’t fall from the Truth of Scripture once they know it, but the Truth is always attacked by a multiplicity of lies!

    Like I said before… Do you really want to help Satan out by having this counterfeit show shown! Of course it will show Christians how deluded many in the so called church are. The real Church (with a big “C”) would not stand for supporting an assault like this on those who do not have “the mind of Christ.” (1Cor 2:16b)

  43. Harold L Raymond III Aug 21st 2013

    Brother Andrew, I’s our responsibility as Christians to do what we can for Jesus.

    You emailed me to ask me my opinion of whether this program should be aired or not. I say let it rock. Let the world see this. If it causes some of the brethren to fall away then maybe they will go to God for deeper understanding of his Word.

    I say let it play because the “church” doesn’t seem to want to walk Holy before the Lord and they won’t OBEY the commission and the commandments anyway. If they did, then you’d REALLY see revival break out, people would be healed, and miracles would happen.

    Though I WILL say that there are SOME of us who are seeing God work through miracles, signs, and wonders and getting kicked out of church for it.

  44. Wolves in Sheep clothing. These are not REAL CHRISTIANS. Good grief, and we can’t figure THAT OUT, and actually are so dense that we treat and ‘ASSUME” they are the REAL thing? Give me a break and lets get back to discussing something edifying for a change that is actually from the Bible for REAL SAINTS!

  45. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    Many talk about how bad it is getting now.
    If we compare current Christianity to the 1500’s when Martin Luther began the first Reformation, we would have a different attitude. The church then was more wealthy than today, the people were buying forgiveness certificates and using them as a license to sin.

    I definitely see a New Reformation coming our way.

  46. All this program does is profane the name of God among the nations as seen with Israel in Ezekiel 36. Is that really what we are to do? To see the real gospel of Jesus Christ watch this powerful video and you will be changed: http://youtu.be/2VgXsngF058

  47. christianity is a religion…

    A Relationship with Father, the Lord and Creator of the Universe is NOT…What is true and not true is only to be understood or discerned in our intimate relationship with the Lord. How we should consider the people in this video, or what we should decree should be the result, is to be understood by our asking Father alone – see Matthew 23:8-11.

    We who are in Father are One with Him and are cleansed by the Blood of Our Redeemer Brother the Lord Jesus. See 1John 4:17

    Seek Father’s Heart. In the coming days we will see many amazing supernatural events and we will have to know how to understand how the Lord sees such things.

    He can use those He does not consider His own to do mighty miracles – see Matthew 7:15-23. So we should also learn to divide between the two, and check the fruits of the ministry or the person, to understand His standards of knowing who is true or false. How we treat the false should also be taught by Father – no blanket rule but a day to day, “now discernment” in the situation. Anything else based on past teaching or assumptions, however sound or good it may seem is idolatry.

    He is the King of our lives and all that ever was, is or will be.

  48. Hi All,

    I am a little shocked that there has been so little response to this video.
    Maybe some have become so used to hearing and seeing this type of appalling antics calling itself ministry nowadays its become like old news.
    Even more alarming is the tendancy to assess it like there is a scale of acceptable sin.

    The Word talks about…… doing away with even the appearance of evil….. that whilst all things may be lawfull not all things are good….. you can’t serve to masters (nameing mammon)…… the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil …. etc etc.
    This type of warped preaching has pervaded our western church culture so badly that christians are worried that the unsaved will tarnish the church as a whole as being …lovers of money if they see a program showing this kind of behaviour.

    Think about in the Book of Revelation… Jesus’s rebuke/warning to the churches re sin.
    Imagine if the programs producers quoted the right verses of scripture to bring correction…now that would be fantastic (God had an Ass talk to Balaam).

    What about …
    Luke 16:14 says .. The Pharisees , were lovers of money.

    2Tim 3:1-5 But know this,that in the last days,grievous times will come.
    For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, unforgiving, slanders,without self-control, fierce, not lovers of good, traiters, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power.Turn away from these,

    Ask yourself why when it comes to questions around wealth Christians are so quick to defend it.
    Don’t get me wrong money is not a problem in itself, we need it for good reasons and God promises to provide for us.
    But the love of money is a serious problem,you can be rich and love it,and you can be poor and love it, and I reckon money has a lot of secret admirers.

    Perhaps there are christians who secretly envy these guys lifestyle and dont want things brought to light in case it spoils the chance of the same for them.

    As for the scenes of praying for healing of people etc in their churches …
    Well Jesus says there will be those who tell Him Lord, Lord …that they healed in His name etc and Jesus says He doesnt know them and to depart from Him because they worked iniquity.

    A sobering thought for all, the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the fruit are two different things.
    Ministering in gifts does not account for us to righteous standing before God … do we have the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives and does Christ know us and us Him.

    There is hope …GOD commands all to repent of their sins…. and I hope people choose before its to late to.

    With love in Christ,

    Grant

    [email protected]

  49. Darren Sargent Aug 21st 2013

    I have no problem with many of you saying, ‘Yes! Show it! Expose it!’ And that was my initial response. Whatever is whispered in the secret places, shout it from the rooftops.

    But as I was thinking this, I heard a voice say quietly to me: ‘Would you be prepared for Me to show you your sin like that?’

    Many have said, ‘Yes’ to that question and asked to be judged in this life – rather than the next. I’m sure many of you would nod in agreement if the Lord were to put that question to you and most probably enthusiastically say, ‘Amen!’ and mean it! Praise God!

    Myself? I hesitated, even though I have said ‘Yes!’ in the past. I know what this means from bitter experience, but as someone has already said that judgement brings peace – there is a harvest of righteousness.

    So, let us not be too quick, not be too gung ho. Let us all pray for the Lord to expose our own sins. May we not come from a high place, but a low place; not from a loud place but a meek place – for we have all fallen short . . .

    I would also add that these men need our prayers – they need to be held up. Failure to do so when we have seen their sin might mean we are co-conspirators in their sin.

    God bless you All!

  50. JulieAnn Aug 21st 2013

    Stunned and speechless at this point. Just when you think you’ve seen and heard it all…. Sadly, because this is so “out there”, many people will watch it, and most likely make it a popular program.

  51. I have mixed feelings about airing this (not that my feelings or opinion matter; as they won’t change anything). I’m not against exposing sin for what it is, but it will do damage to the body of Christ as a whole. People tend to see these ministers as ‘representatives of Christianity in general’ and any backlash will be against people of faith.

  52. Mary Joseph Aug 21st 2013

    It’s Showtime….Click!

  53. Lightning Storm Aug 21st 2013

    Give them the desires of their hearts. Show it.

    God is LIGHT….AND LIGHT CONSUMES THE DARKNESS.

    Keeping sins HIDDEN in the Darkness is UNPROFITABLE. (a little joke for you all who have no secret sin)

  54. The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it? (or, when the end comes)
    Jer.5

    The multitudes love it!

  55. GOD is not mocked…..the truth is in his word the Bible…..the last prophet was John and they have all died poor.

  56. These also reel with wine and stagger from strong drink; the priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, they are confused by wine, they stagger from strong drink…………………all the tables are full of filthy vomit! (without a single clean place!) Isaiah28

    The false doctrine (and open sin) of the Harlot Church leadership, the corporate Establishment Church, false prophets… a flood of lies. It’s vomit on the tables. And even this is judgment. Bring it! (woe, Is.28:1-3)

  57. this disgusts me and im sorry i even wasted my time watching it. who am i to say these wicked money hungry men shouldnt be on this reality show, when that is where wicked money hungry men belong? the world will watch, and laugh, and mock, but where the wicked think they rule, the Lord sees and hears and watches and somewhere near will be placed a righteous man. im not sure why you wanted me to see this clip my brother. we are to look UP, that is where our hope is. do we not already know this? do we not know that judgement is upon us even now? yes, we see the hand of God working all around us trying to wake up a dying world. may God have mercy on us.

    “Some Christians want to stop this new Reality TV show from going
    to air – “Preachers of L.A.” But I say, “Let it be shown!” After all,
    these are actual preachers, typical of so many today, with their
    fancy houses and flashy cars. They wanted this Reality show,
    they wanted to flaunt all this stuff – let America see the kind of
    preachers she is producing these days! Why should this remain
    hidden? Let the whole church know the full extent of how far things
    have fallen. Please take a look at the trailer for “Preachers of LA”
    at our website below. Should it be banned or not?-”

    this is your email brother, and you say “Let it be shown”. the choice has already been made whether we choose it to be on air or not. and if i wrote them and said “you must ban this show from going on the air”, do you think they would listen? of course not, so reading this email and perhaps acting upon it is worthless. you also say “Let america see the kind of preachers she is producing these days.” and i say let the world see the kind of preachers she is producing these days. we also already know this. these worldly, wicked, money hungry preachers are already all over the tv, even in our own towns. the Lord tells me this is nothing new and in the last days is going to happen. so this also makes this email worthless. and lastly you say “Let the whole church know the full extent of how far things have fallen.” does the church not already know this? i would say there is church, and there is “the church”. we as believers in the saving grace of Jesus Christ know exactly the full extent of how far things have fallen. sometimes when i hear a story on the news, or read an article that details the debauchery, the evil and cunning of some people it makes me cry. it is everywhere brother andrew, and we read and see it everyday. evil in the world is becoming more evil. satan is alive and finding his pickings are ripe. the Lord tells me this is nothing new, and will only get worse as the birth pangs increase. so this also makes this email worthless. and might i add one more quote from you? “why should this remain hidden?” i see nothing hidden. we have another olsteen, warren, meyer, and the list goes on and on and on…… does the Holy Spirit not speak in your soul and tell you they are of the dark one? tell me how they are hidden when we have a most powerful and almighty God to put them in the light for us? so again and most sadly, this email has been worthless to me.
    i dont know why nor do i understand how watching this clip has been edifying to me. one of the comments posted stated that what some of these preachers were saying “didnt look that unscriptural” i will say here that even satan knows and quotes scripture. we must pray to not be deceived and stay in our Bibles.
    wicked times are here, and the Lord fast approaches, let us be alert and prayerful, discerning and hungry for Gods Word and our Saviour.

  58. Looks like the wheat and the tares are growing up together but the day is coming when the tares will be bound in bundles and burned while the wheat will be secured in God’s barn (Matt. 13: 24 – 30) Jesus is not in a panic over this mess.
    This is just the tip of the iceberg . . Nothing should surprise us!!!

  59. the American Gospel is producing almost only tares in our day sadly. May God gather those who are of the true seed of God together in these last days for a testimony in every Nation and then the end will come.

  60. Would it be exposing the pastor or the false gospels they preach? On this video you have examples of not only false prophets (teachers)but also the American gospel which in the end gets no one saved. Evidently they haven’t studied Jesus’ instruction to deny self, pick up their cross and follow Him. They will stand in judgement for the shame they bring upon the church. We need to pray for their repentance

  61. The prosperity gospel has confused the riches of the world with the riches of heaven.

    The kingdom of heaven intersects with the world but is not OF the world.

  62. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    Pss 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

    I really don’t think God is highly concerned about what man does. Man’s efforts to disgrace God are futile.
    Only what man does in the Power of the Holy Spirit will produce fruit.

  63. Just to clarify:
    God blesses us and often provides for our needs supernaturally, in ways we can’t imagine.

  64. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    Prosperity has two standards
    The Gold standard, which is the Kingdom of Man
    and the God standard, which is the Kingdom of God.

  65. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    We must choose which standard we desire to pursue

  66. follywood folks, just more flesh not to worry. GOD is not mocked for what so ever a man soweth that shall he also reap. we should be so far beyond this stuff that it is not even an issue. The true church (the people of GOD) is beginning to wake up and come out of the buildings and programs and traditions of man AND MANIFEST A RISEN CHRIST all of this other nonsense is like watching little children fighting over a rubber duck….when I as a child ) (and that stuff is child stuff) i thought like a child…BUT NOW THAT I AM GROWN UP hello I think like a man.

    When I was a child in the lord I was involved in that mess to BUT THANK GOD HE MOVED ME ON FROM THE CHILDISH THINGS.

  67. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    Amen Larry

  68. I share this problem on a Christian forum. they finally banned me. so whats new?

  69. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    devon…
    perhaps you should name the christian forum. maybe if we all post our opinion there they would have to rethink.
    or they would just ban all of us.

  70. DonaldN Aug 21st 2013

    Recall the first reformation.
    All who thought and acted against the established church of the time were excommunicated.
    Not such a bad thing actually.

  71. some of these people should read what GOD says will happen to pastors who lead their flock astray ! the church as a whole is getting too wishy- washy on WORD ! I have heard many times of how the church has to change to ” get the people interested ” ! so, how far to you bend backwards for the people? I have also heard ” we want to make things casual…..as to not scare folks away ” HOW CASUAL DOES IT GET ? I ask this …..WWJD ????? did GOD want successful businesses or CHURCHES??

  72. Thanks for the link, Andrew. I watched it twice (with a morbid fascination) and then Googled “Preachers of LA”. It took me to the blog (http://preachers-of-la.oxygen.com) where I watched Clarence McClendon and Jay Haizlip (two of the preachers in the trailer) announce to their congregations their forthcoming involvement in the reality series. And yes, you guessed it: To thunderous applause. Which reminds me of Jeremiah’s words: The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it? – Jer. 5:31, NASB. I don’t know if anyone has made the point, but what these guys are revealing to the body of Christ is not just their own sickness, but also the sickness of their followers, i.e. those who have made them what they are. Their fame and fortune testify to the needs of those who support them. If they reveal anything, then it is the psyche of those who consume their services (a bit like the dynamics that drive the porn industry). I’m not sure if I’m being too harsh here, and I know there are always some sincere and desperate people who are being taken for a ride. But I do think Jeremiah’s words cannot be ignored. Bless you for embodying the opposite of this.

  73. It is very sad that God’s word has been tarnished .May conviction fill their hearts and they repent of such doings. t does not bring glory to the Kingdom of God. We are not to be partakes of this world, but transformed by the Word of God.

  74. Kem Tillford Aug 21st 2013

    Apostasy that has to happen before His return. Pray the Lord will grant them repentance. It’s pitiful this is what we’re producing in America but it’s their choice as to how to live and they are held to a higher standard. I say let the show air, maybe it’ll wake some believers up to their pitiful, naked state and cause them to turn to the Lord instead of the flesh of the arm.

  75. Judith Eddy Aug 21st 2013

    Hmmmmm…really looks like this could be a catalyst that helps wake up those people in the churches that love to be entertained to the “reality” that this is not a show but shows how mixed up what we call church here in the US has become. Scripture can be used to justify many things that are not actually the truth as we know. I think it is time for us to be doing the works of Jesus ( loving the pioneer school!!) and watch as the LORD build His true church once again.
    This type of thing is a distraction and makes even more division among us.
    Who knows? maybe after a few programs the whole bunch will get saved- if they are fakes – and God will show up and discipline every son He loves if they are not fakes.
    As for me I plan to keep watching and praying for the Lord’s return and for the spirit of repentance to fall on this world since we are in the end of the end-times I think. All else is the enemy’s way of distracting us from the work at hand and so we become just like what we are criticizing.
    God is turning up the heat and lots of dross is surfacing! The result? Pure dross-less GOLD – and we will look like Jesus. Good to remember that HE was rejected…can the disciple expect better than the Master?
    Shows like this can not but make the true church LOOK like the true church to those who the Lord calls. WE are the church of God. The structure is for convenience but is not the “church”. The structures are bound to crumble built on any other foundation than the true Lord Jesus Christ and the whole Word. Maranatha!
    My take on it…Love ya!!

  76. Sue Walsh Aug 21st 2013

    Shalom All

    Check out 119 Ministries teachings:

    Fruit of the Wolves

    http://119ministries.com/videoteachings.aspx?viewcontentpageguid=72e80014-ecff-4685-a2d2-4cac9d432817&parentnavigationid=28668

    The Church His Model

    http://119ministries.com/videoteachings.aspx?viewcontentpageguid=46c39357-b976-4abd-ae13-14790732b1db&parentnavigationid=28668

    They explain well Yaweh’s intended structure for the body of Messiah. The pastoral system with all its spots and wrinkles shown in the clip comes straight out of Rome and Babylon. We are being called to come out of her right now before it is too late.

    Folks in this Hebrew month of Elul we are shown to search out our souls for any leaven that offends our King in preparation for His second coming when we will tabernacle with him in the bridal chamber.

    We really need to ask ourselves how much we have actually been responsible for the corrupt church we see above. Like the 5 unwise virgins we want instant handouts. Instead of going to the wisdom of the Torah we go to doctrinally unsound wolves in sheep’s clothing. We only mature when we learn to Shamar or listen to Adonai, our Abba Father Yahweh’s perfect plan for us.

    May Yah bless you all

    Sue

  77. 100% Zululander Aug 21st 2013

    Who are you going to “expose” it to & what are you going to expose?
    real Christians know this stuff is going on all the time & are ashamed of it….nothing new
    If unbelievers watch it will just confirm the negative view they have for the church, it won’t help.

    Finally, if the world produces & shows it, believe me, it will definitely NOT help the church in ANY way.
    the devil does not do the church any favors EVER

  78. Alison Aug 21st 2013

    I am in two minds about this being shown to the American people. Part of me says yes show it for what it is and let the people see the hypocrisy. The other part of me says … but if it is shown it could lead some people to believe that this is truth and bring them to a false salvation. Then when all the prosperity doesn’t happen for them they will be disillusioned and yet more will join the forces of those who say I have tried Christianity and it doesn’t work. I believe however that these preachers and all who are like them need to be brought to task over their actions and as God’s people we need to hold them accountable. I know it is God who will ultimately do the judging and bring about justice but I also believe that scripture clearly tells us that we should be getting along side them and pointing out their errors and giving them a chance to repent before those they have deceived and before God.

  79. Let the world be the world – the true Believers will remain true. If the world is so panicked about us we should rejoice. They know there are more of us than there are of them….

    The true Believers will continue to win souls and walk with Jesus. When the Real appears, the fake is forgotten — it happened to me. It’s the Anointing that saves and when that comes – all else is GONE!! :)

  80. Charlene Aug 21st 2013

    People who are truly seeking the Creator of the universe may watch this trash for awhile, but I believe their spirits will not let them continue to watch. They will seek the truth from scripture and then seek true believers. The Father knows who will seek Him with true hearts. All others who choose to watch the false and misleading program do so because they already have preconceived ideas about what Christianity is like, so this show will just reinforce that belief, to their detriment.

  81. wineskin Aug 21st 2013

    Once again, the franchised Christians worry themselves sick about bad press…

    Who told you we must defend Christianity?
    Who told you we need to protect Christ’s reputation?
    Who told you God’s perfect plan is in a state of danger and we need to intervene or the devil might win??

    I don’t know about you, but I depend on God, not vice versa.

    As hard as it is to admit, our world of Christianity has become one very sick place and there’s no way anybody can hide the obvious any longer. I see the exposure as prophetic, and a perfect time for me to chill, step away and watch my valiant Lord make his move…

  82. Mike Young Aug 21st 2013

    Jesus healed and preached the Gospel. He was clear: Bring me your sick and infirm. Come to me to find Life. Repent, follow me. “HEALED, PREACHED THE GOSPEL”

    No smoke on stage, no laser lights, no staged drama, no intoxicating drumbeat to a religious sway, no special lighting, no special costumes or clothing, no special hair-do, no special effects.

    Jesus was and is the ONLY thing that is SPECIAL.

    So, Jesus cared about the entire person: Body (healed), mind (healed), soul/spirit (healed, saved)

    GO: heal the sick and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom. Hmmmmmm. Pretty clear.

  83. Christina Aug 21st 2013

    Wolves in sheeps clothing.

  84. Lightning Storm Aug 21st 2013

    Unbelievers are not “won over” by the church organizations’ REPUTATION.

    When GOD is small and powerless in our minds, then small powerless things happen in our lives.

  85. Jeff Zak Aug 21st 2013

    Let it roll, but pray that an alternative will also be aired that presents preachers & evangelists & believers that actually follow Jesus Christ in word & deed… these men are an embarrassment.

  86. vronnie Aug 21st 2013

    I dont know if it should be shown?? Who will have the courage to stand and talk againt the pastors in the show and heir beliefs and lifestyles? I would be afraid that his show will just encourage he licentousness of our time….broken hearted!

  87. The thing is “all” Christians will be lumped in with these churchgoers.

    Very sad situation in America and its not just going on in LA, its all over the entire country.

    GaryB

  88. Terrie Aug 21st 2013

    This makes me so grateful for my American pastor who is a Bible-based preacher, devoted to Christ, humble, modest, and poured out in service to his congregation and also those in his community who are needing help. One vehicle he shares with his wife and a small home that is “big enough”. That is his reality show.

  89. Unfortunately, “reality shows” are about the drama. LA preachers? This is exactly what I would expect to come out of LA. Are there real preachers in LA? I bet there are. Would there be a tv show about them? Not in the city of lies and deceipt. But I’m afraid there is much truth in this reality show. What a terrible thing we have come to in this country. God have mercy on us. We have fallen away.

  90. chas351 Aug 21st 2013

    they should air the programme,,, tell everyone. If preachers are preaching Jesus and people are being saved & healed.. i dont have a problem with that.. if God Blesses them financially.. i dont have a problem with that either.. we will all stand before the Lord on Judgement Day and any works not done of Him, will be burned.

    Personally i dont own a TV (its rubbish).(lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes & the pride of life) (anyone who loves the world does not love the Father)

    Regards Riches.. i dont have a problem living under the Blessings of Abraham,, this was bought for us by the Precious Blood of Yeshua.
    If your conscience does not condemn you.. go buy a Ferrrari.. (i wouldnt)

  91. Averyl Aug 21st 2013

    GaryB, – yes, all Christians will be mocked because of such videos.

    Anyone on here from New Plymouth, NZ?
    If so, look on facebook at my page .

  92. Averyl Aug 21st 2013

    Don’t know where the rest of my post went!

    The facebook page is New Plymouth Church NZ

  93. Terry E Aug 21st 2013

    Expose them for what they are and have become. At the end of the day Jesus knows those who are his and God help those shepherds who lead their flock astray!

  94. So many fortunes made on Earth, too few fortunes made in Heaven.

  95. American’s think that is what church is about. And I guess that it is. Unfortunately, it resembles nothing like the New Testament Church.
    I was with Clarence McClendon in 2001 after he divorced his wife to get a trophy wife. I asked him then how he could justify driving a Bentley when people in his congregation could not pay their utilities…

  96. Dear All

    With the access to hi-tech media communications worldwide now days, we can’t stop much getting an airing, either good or bad. The only unfortunate issue with the world seeing this apostasy flaunted in their faces, to the unknowing and unsuspecting secular world, it depicts in their eyes the face of Christianity and therefore the face of Christ! It also gives them a great excuse as to why they should stay right away from any such involvement.

    As true believers we are the BIBLE that the world would read and watch! Secular people do not know or read the Bible and especially these new generations of young people. So they have no reference point when they see these excesses and evils of Christianity before them and in the news media. It is a far cry from the 1800-early 1900 preachers of the cross. The devil has orchestrated a great contempt for western Christianity with some of these willing prosperity preachers to help him. So preaching the true Gospel in the west, especially in USA, is often harder than in villages in Africa or Asia, despite demonic strongholds there. We now have to really ask God for HIS sovereign move upon people’s hearts (without our involvement) as He has done with many Jews and Moslems of late.

    Back in the early 80’s I showed my then unsaved husband a video clip of Benny Hinn’s ‘tip, tattle and roll” performance. He told me that if this man represented Christianity, then he wanted no part of it – and still sadly does not. So there is a downside and much prayer has to be re-invested to overthrow the damage done in the name of God, and against the true Gospel.

    But then the battle is on with satan and the world has become more evil since the cross preachers of 1800/early 1900’s. So we know the Biblical prophetic timeline is bearing down upon the world. We have to now allow the spirit of God to move accordingly where he wills, drawing this one, convicting that one, and the Gospel going to places never gone before. God knows the number in His sealing and so when that number is sealed then the end time events will proceed more quickly.

    We have had much going on in the solar system of late with the sun tipping 180 degrees, bringing solar flares and natural disasters. I have just been in NW India (Himalaya’s) and observed a solar sight -sun was encased and covered with a huge dark circle with a gold and red band around its circumference. I talked freely with Moslem and Hindu traders and we compared notes from respective religions and I shared with them from Isaiah about how the end times events would proceed in relation to the earth and heavens. How God was in command. These men were totally in agreement but of course trying to fit it all into their religious schema -but throughout the nations I have travelled and among differing religious thoughts, the end time events are drawing people into spiritual and Godly discussions and I believe that God has given us evangelists an open door to share the Gospel through this avenue just as there was an anointing on the book by Hal Lindsay many years ago “The Late Great Planet Earth”. No man or woman can escape what is happening to our earth -it is a draw card to God and may give us an option to people’s contemptuous attitudes towards God, increased in part by these out of line self focused preachers and churches.

    So regardless what these people are doing to damage Christ’s message, we still move forward and take it out there -maybe to places other than the west -but that is OK.

    Shalom Alison

  97. Hi Chas351,

    According to scripture people can have a seared conscience.
    We need to line our conscience up with the word of God.
    God says He has written His laws on the hearts of men so what ever we believe the conscience is saying needs to be inline with the Word.
    When we talk about having a clear or clean conscience I note Paul says in the context of judgeing and judgement the following.

    1Cor4:4 For I know nothing against myself. Yet I am not justified by this, but he who judges me is the Lord.

    Just some food for thought.

    Jesus first and foremost.

    Grant

    [email protected]

  98. Matthew 15:13-14

    “But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

    And when the L.A. preachers fall into a ditch with those they are leading, perhaps then they will cry out to God for forgiveness and maybe He will grant them repentance to come to a knowledge of the truth and be saved.

  99. in 1956 Oral Robert visited Australia
    “In Melbourne there were outright physical attacks and destructive gangs. He was literally driven out of the city for praying for the sick.” (Biography of Oral Robert http://healingandrevival.com/BioORoberts.htm)
    The “Truth” news paper owned by a certain religions group published a front page article titled “Religious fake revealed” showing a photograph of Oral praying for a young girl with crossed eyes , when he fronted at their office next day with the girl obviously healed he was told to go away as “we have our story and have sold our paper” the same paper publishes a front page headline about my group thus
    “Pastor, on stage, with girl, in bath”
    My Point,i HAVE the media WIL NEVER GIVE THE TRUTHA FAIR GO

  100. I just thought of a quote I heard on a Christian radio channel yesterday. it kind of brings to light stuff like this. it was by BILLY GRAHAM years ago………….if the UNITED STATES doesn’t get judgment from GOD……then HE owes SODOM and GOMORRAH AN APOLOGY !

  101. Andrew Aug 22nd 2013

    True

    But they don’t have to “try” too hard with these “Prosperity” guys.

    It’s all there to dish up – ready served.

    Sad.

    -Andrew

  102. Stella Aug 22nd 2013

    What mockery! What must one do?
    We must be like Paul the Apostle. He stood firm and rebuked the false religious spirit in the man.
    We asd believers have the authority and power to rebuke the works of the devil in front of all those who claim they are real; so that they can repent and not believe these false preacher also known as false prophets.
    The question shall we as believers allow this vey things to be seen on TV. NO!!! but not just by putting it of one`s mind, after all if the people of the kingdom like Paul , do not take action nothing is going to be done about it.
    Paul said> I will show you my faith by my works= my action in how I will destroy these kinds of spirits in man and cause them to repent of the4ir mockery. Paul took authority by the power of the word and that ended it all..

  103. Clare Watts Aug 22nd 2013

    My personal thought about all this, is that Jesus is SHAMED by these people passing themselves off as Christians. What they are doing is NOT Scriptural, and there is nothing in them that unbelievers would want, except the wealth…..and they can have that without the facade of Christianity! They mock God! They mock what Jesus did at Calvary! They mock the teachings of Jesus! Their lives do not glorify God – but themselves! God is not mocked…….I weep for the shame it brings upon our Holy and righteous God! LORD, I pray that you will forgive them, for they know not what they do!

  104. I left institu;tional church in 2006. This clip just reinforces my decision. Since leaving the institution, we have planted two churchesthat continue to thrive, and every person is a priest before God.

  105. Well, I’m glad I’m not the judge. It seems that many on this forum are offended, that is good, but why are you offended?
    Have you gained an insight to the false gospel on your own?
    Be thankful that God was pleased to share with you the truth, but don’t fall for the same sin of pride that you or me, continually fall for.
    That these people, even though they maybe false prophets, are only alive, by the grace of God.
    For what I’ve done in my life, I should have killed a thousand times for my sin, but only by the patience and mercy of God, I eventually came to the knowledge of the truth.
    Remember 2 Thess. 2:13-15
    13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

    If we have been called and chosen, and by the grace of God, know the truth, then we better start acting like that and stop quenching the Spirit that wants to put the Pharisee in us to death.
    I thank God for all of you that are offended, that just shows me that the light of God is shining brightly in your hearts.
    Please don’t think that I have overcome this trait either, it seems that we all fall for it, whether your believing the truth or the lie.
    So stand strong and be humble, don’t judge, but be ready to offer the truth at all times.
    And if someone calls you a Pharisee, then be humble and repent, because you probably are!
    I think that this is one of Satan’s finest deceptions, that we think we are good, and they are bad etc.
    Even Jesus said “There is only One who is good.”, so let’s not get to puffed up because God chose to have mercy on us.
    Let’s pray that God will have the same mercy on them.
    If you want to be “Good”, be a servant to all, even your enemies.
    Cheers.

  106. Laurie J Aug 22nd 2013

    For the last couple of days, the Lord has directed me to pray concerning these wolves in sheep`s clothing, So this video, as awful as it was, was a confirmation. The Lord says that He is going to thin the herd of these wolves. Ezekiel 34:10: “Thus says the Lord God:”Behold, I am against the shepherds, and will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds will feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.” May the sheep who sit under their preaching have their eyes opened that they might know the truth, Laurie

  107. Hi Peter,

    We are all called to judge teaching, spirits,prophecy and a whole raft of things “in the Lord”.
    We must condemn false teaching.
    What we are not to judge, is whether a particular person will be in heaven or not (because they may repent, we are not to condemn the person).
    All are finally righteously judged by God for he knows the truely repentant .
    In saying that though we are to preach against sin and that its wages are death and the the final resting place of all those who revel in it will be the lake of fire… thats biblical fact.
    Repentance is the only choice towards Christ and in turn heaven.
    “Judge not “can be such an excuse for not speaking the truth that will set people free.
    You can judge what people do against Gods word without condemning them….they need conviction of sin and the knowledge that they can be forgiven in Christ to give them the chance to repent and receive forgiveness and grace, otherwise its lawlessness and we know who the lawless one is.
    We can be proud in absolutely everything we do includeing not judgeing.
    WHO CAN HEAR UNLESS THERE IS A PREACHER.
    The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin , we do the preaching, He does the convicting…. we better make sure its a whole Gospel we preach
    …. sin, law, grace , forgiveness, heaven, hell etc continuely pointing to Jesus Christ.

    Regards,

    Grant

  108. Hi,

    Just to clarify a point I made about being proud.
    I am saying that we are not to be proud.

    Kind regards,
    Grant

  109. What a twisted group of ‘males’ (can’t refer to them as ‘men’) to feature. As a counter-point, it would be nice if they could also feature men like Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel – Costa Mesa or Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church. Those two men stand for something diametrically opposed to the group of males they assembled.

    And oh yeah, I don’t think there should be protests. Freedom of Speech protects even what we find distasteful…

  110. Gordon Neil Aug 22nd 2013

    Mark 16:15-21 defines a believer.

  111. I don’t have a problem with people seeing who these people really are but does that leave unbelievers thinking that this is normal? Just adds to their thoughts that the ‘church is a bunch of hyprocites’. How does a non believer get the chance to see what real Christianty is?

  112. Maybe we should pray the Lord gives these people some perspective. They look ridiculous just from an earthly decorum perspective which is why it makes for good reality TV, but from a temporal heavenly perspective what they have set their hearts on is even more foolish.

    Let me share an example. A few weeks ago the Lord gave me a dream. In the dream the city in which I live was being destroyed by God by fire. This was not some terrorist smuggling a bomb into the country or a nuke launched by some random evil dictator; this was God himself burning my city and all the people in it in a raging inferno. I live in a generic metropolitan city – not necessarily known to be more wicked than any other American city.

    In the dream I could clearly see that it was God destroying the city, and I remembered that scripture about fleeing to the mountains. I couldn’t remember what else that scripture said, and the Lord started prodding me about not spending enough time in the word that I didn’t know the rest of the scripture. I decided it must be like Lot’s wife and I shouldn’t look back. The temptation to look back was so strong I could hardly resist it – I don’t know why because I don’t really have anything I care if I lose. Out of the corner of my eye I saw sports stadiums full of people being consumed by fire. I also ran past a former employee that had taken a lot of money from me. I then saw the voice of the Lord in the sky saying, “THEIR MONEY IS NOT GOING TO SAVE THEM.”

    On its face, it sounds like God intends to destroy my city with fire. There is symbolism in that dream that leads me to believe it may have also been referring to the church. Stadiums maybe speak of crusades – man’s way, not God’s way. That guy in the dream that had stole money from me was not a legitimate employee at all, but a con man. Whatever the dream meant, when all of that hits their money is not going to be worth anything.

    I looked up the scriptures and they say:

    ““So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.”

    I don’t know how far in the future I was seeing in that dream. The USA appears to be circling the drain. I can tell you that where the USA preachers are at right now is God just has nobody to do what needs to be done so others are going to have to cover things they were not called to do. Hopefully some young men out there with some integrity will press into God.

  113. Claudia M Aug 22nd 2013

    My husband is 73 years old and a Pastor. He also holds a part-time job because the church can only afford $1200 a month salary. This is a man with a Master’s degree and 45 + years experience. He is working still because #1 he is called and loves the ministry and #2 for all his years of ministry he has less than $30k to retire on. These sad and uninteresting circumstances are far more the norm in every state and most denominations. Pastors work hard, are grossly underpaid and sadly, poorly cared for by the body of Christ on the whole. This reality show is a gross misrepresentation of the ministry and should be offensive to all believers.

    41200

  114. Andrew, I am against televising such nonsense for three reasons:

    1. Those not acquainted with and acting via the Holy Spirit will not benefit from viewing such fare. It will only inflame their negative views of Christianity.
    2. Those who truly have life in Christ do not need to waste time viewing such nonsense.
    3. As Christs, we are to be in the world, not part of the world. We are to lift HIS NAME on high, not that of the unrepentant/unbeliever. We are NOT to waste our time on such un-Christ-like fare. And most importantly, we are to be totally, always focused on Christ! If we focus on things and people who represent the world, there is our heart. And we magnify the evil that is behind such, instead of magnifying Christ. Read Eph 6:10-20. It tells us that we wrestle not against flesh and earthly governments, but against powers and principalities in spiritually high places. Our decision in this is clear: do we focus on Christ and abide in him to spread and magnify his borders, or do we focus on and remain tethered to the world? The majority of those who claim to be Christians actually have unfortunately chosen the latter, which is why the “church” is so powerless today. Wouldn’t you agree?!

  115. For Gina -re your prophetic dream

    I witnessed with your dream and it has been repeatedly recorded in the Bible as follows:
    Luke 12:49
    “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    Jesus said that He came to bring fire to the earth and that He was eager for it to be kindled, but it has not yet been kindled. It would seem that He must first undergo a baptism before it would be kindled. But what is that fire which He came to kindle?

    There are many scriptures regarding this fire:

    1 KINGS 18:24, 38 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by FIRE—he is God.” Then all the people said, “What you say is good.” … Then the FIRE of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.
    2 KINGS 1:12 “If I am a man of God,” Elijah replied, “may FIRE come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then the FIRE of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men.
    JEREMIAH 15:14 I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for my anger will kindle a FIRE that will burn against you.”

    From these verses and many others in the Bible we can see that:

    (1) Fire is closely linked with the presence and the power of God.
    (2) Fire is often used, either symbolically or literally, as an instrument of divine wrath, exercised against sinners
    (3) Biblical prophecy speaks of “fire” as yet to come, brought by God against sinners
    (4) The future fire of divine judgment is closely linked with the coming of Messiah.
    (5) John the Baptist spoke of the coming Messiah as bringing fire.

    One can only conclude that the “fire” of which Jesus spoke is the same fire about which the prophets, including John the Baptist, spoke—the fire of divine wrath. When Jesus said that He had come to “kindle a fire” He is therefore saying that He has come to bring about the outpouring of God’s wrath on a sinful people.

    Originally Jesus did come the first time to save men, but for all who reject Him there is no other means of salvation. When He comes again, He will come to judge, especially those who have rejected His salvation.

    A (fire) outpouring of wrath is a forerunner to the establishment of the kingdom of God. In order for the kingdom of God to be established, sinners must be punished and sin eliminated (by fire).

    So a great dream Gina and I sense the time is getting closer because so many people are having end time prophetic dreams and God is warning.

    Shalom AM

  116. Marilyn Crow Aug 22nd 2013

    Money is a tool to provide for family & to help others. Wealth is to provide schools, hospitals, farms, businesses etc. What we do with money shows where our heart is.

    So how sad it is to see these people giving their money to these so-called leaders to misuse.

    Paul warns of such behaviour.

    `For you endure it if a man assumes control of your souls….or devours your substance, spends your money…`
    2 Cor. 11: 20 AMP

    Let us all be careful, for whatever we have is the Lord`s & will be required of us as to how we spent it.

    `For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.`
    Matt. 6: 21

    Marilyn

  117. From what I have heard a lot of the TV reality shows are fake. Many of the shows are staged to get the ratings and large crowds to view them.

    If this is the case most of the show will be a lot of drama. There can only be evil come out of all of this.

    We own a TV but it is not hooked up to any service including an antennae, I’m glad that we are not tempted to even watch or support this mockery of Christianity.

    Was there an article here that said; if you watch three or four hours of TV a night it will mean you will eventually have watched 11 years of your life away?

    What a waste of time to stand before the Lord with eleven years of TV viewing and it may be more years for some.

    GaryB

  118. The media budget of the anti-God lobby is, of course, massive.
    And we stand no chance, whatsoever, to withstand their propaganda in our own strength.
    Only in the discernment and wisdom of the Lord Jesus.
    So one doesn’t want to get too clever. But banning anything is not helpful.
    Two preachers who have substantially helped me at times have been Creflo Dollar and Bayless Conley (because I could get them on CNBC!).
    Of course we need to be as close to reality as we can manage to allow the Lord Jesus to get us.
    May His love guide our every thought and move.

  119. Man oh man Andrew mate (I am a Kiwi like yourself), I see it but I don’t believe it. Greed, greed,and more greed. ‘Jesus told us to prosper?’ Yeah right!! They preach the Good News, and fleece the sheep. And one of them is living with a woman, living in sin!!? What they will hear from the Lord will not be ‘Well done thou good and faithful servant’, but they will hear, ‘be gone from me, thou faithless servant.’ Oh, I could preach a full sermon on this, but mate, I haven’t got the time. Thanks for sharing this bro, Richie :)

  120. watchful Aug 22nd 2013

    This is worldliness, and they are free to be friends with the world if they want. But we should just walk away from their example and not look back. The church becoming like the world is like the Israelites when they became like the pagan world around them. Nothing new under the sun, what was written for our ensample is happening again. So won’t the circumstances when the Lord comes again be the same as they were when He first came to Israel..? Western civilization is the Roman empire, and its ways have spread all over the globe as well as conquering the church now. Only the Caesars died, not the peoples it had conquered and civilized which we now call western civilization. We not only have to walk away from worldly religion we need to come out of this worldly civilization itself and not be friends with it any longer, by the grace of God.

  121. JulieAnn Aug 22nd 2013

    Why is it the majority of churches in America are preaching a so-called gospel of “success, prosperity, anointing, gifts, callings, and doing something ‘big’ for God”? It’s all about “Me”. What is ‘my’ anointing, ‘my’ calling, ‘my’ gift; how can ‘I’ be successful and prosper, and make a name for ‘myself’? Where is THE gospel of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified? He must increase, I must decrease. Is Christ being formed in us? I could go on but you get my point. I have never felt lonelier in my life, and my heart has never ached more than it does in this time we are in as believers. THE true gospel being preached, and demonstrated is rare. And true heart-felt love even rarer. But I encourage myself by reminding myself that He warned us of what was to come, and that He has a remnant in these last days, and for those who Overcome – Eternal Life with Him! Lord, help us to keep our eyes and faith fixed on You! Amen

  122. Liberty Aug 22nd 2013

    Obviously, the entertainment industry thinks those preachers are a marketable product and those preachers see another avenue in which to make more money for themselves by starring in a reality TV show.

    The bottom line of everything for the entertainment industry is money, and that includes all reality TV shows. All viewers who watch reality shows, make those shows popular and cause them to draw in more sponsors, and thus more money for the “stars” of the TV shows and the entertainment industry. The love of money is the root to all kinds of evil.

  123. Hi

    What saddens me greatly is when we ask ourselves is “gospel” these guys are preaching the real Gospel.

    True salvation involves repentance remember at pentecost we’re told that people were “cut to the heart”, that’s a deep godly sorrow not just a quick two minute prayer.

    Yes the gospel is still preached but which gospel and is it the real Jesus people are coming to believe in.Or is it some cosmic Santa Claus who they believe will grant their every fleshly desire. The question we have to ask is will this really do any good, those without the Spirit of Christ do not have the ability to discern.

    There has to be repentance, and sorry, but repentance is most definitely not a feel good factor. True repentance rips our hearts in two as we come before a holy God in realisation of how sinful we really are. God’s blessings are received in humility and awe that He would grant us such undeserved and unmerited favour. I didn’t witness any of that in the trailer.

    Oh that true repentance would come upon us as in the days of the early church and not a repentance brought about by hype riding people in easily on a wave of sensation and over-emotionalism. Yes I know the way I described repentance does involve emotion, but it’s a very different kind of emotion I’m referring to her, humble and quiet not hyped up sensationalism.

    All we can really do is humble ourselves in prayer and ask that God deals with it HIS way.

    Blessings Andrew

  124. 100% Zululander Aug 22nd 2013

    I’m surprised were even debating whether to support the world making money out of making the church look stupid in the eyes of the world who we are trying to win.
    Andrew this really blows me away & the gung ho attitude of “bring it on” appalls me.
    Were talking of the church of the Lord Jesus here

  125. I couldn’t finish watching the trailer! These men trying to justify their wealth using the scriptures makes me ill. These men should be prayed for in hopes that, if they really are on the path to follow Jesus, that somehow they would see the reality. If you look back at the “old time pastors and missionaries, they weren’t rich. Take Watchman Nee, he left a life of comfort to follow Jesus and he had nothing, but the Lord provided him “what he needed”. Now, he is a true example of someone who has a real LOVE for Lord and a true calling…do these men?, other than the fact they know they can get rich.

  126. Lightning Storm Aug 22nd 2013

    Reputation is rooted in PRIDE.

    Jesus was of “NO REPUTATION”. Jesus was MOCKED. Jesus was ridiculed and called names.

    JESUS IS BIG ENOUGH TO SUFFER THE ATTACKS OF PEOPLE’S SIN NATURES……..WHY AREN’T THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FILLED UP WITH HIM?

    Phl 2:7 KJV – But made Himself of NO REPUTATION, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    Phl 2:8 KJV – And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    Phl 2:9 KJV – Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    CRUCIFY YOUR REPUTATION ON THE CROSS and have, at the very least, compassion for those who are in bondage to their sin nature.

    Those who do not have the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN THEMSELVES, do not have the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO OVERCOME SIN.
    The do what comes NATURALLY……which is SIN.

    Get real…get in touch with reality…you live in the Kingdom of Darkness!

  127. Surely you know the corrupt media is using a show like this to attack Christ so why would you condone the stupid show?

    You said, “let America see the kind of preachers she is producing these days!” Are you so mad at America that you would suggest using the Satanic controlled Western media to expose “Christian” camp problems.

    Plus, it is ridiculous to pick a few rotten apples & say, See I told you America is the great corrupter in Christendom. Look at your nation & others in your area, they are just as bad!

    Your comments are exactly why we need to repent & seek true revival for the Bride of Christ.

  128. Andrew Aug 22nd 2013

    This show was “condoned” by every one of these preachers who willingly signed up for it. They are real pastors of real congregations.

    Prosperity teaching was invented in USA and has flooded the whole world. I have personally seen how huge it is in Africa, Asia, and worldwide. So such “pastors” are now everywhere. Does that mean “American” Christianity is ruining the world? – YES !!! (If you want to be direct about it).

    Will judgment follow? – YES !!!

    -Andrew Strom

  129. Michelle d. Aug 22nd 2013

    Raise the standard all our fathers have inherited. Lies… You can’t. Crawl under the belly of a snake… You can. Take a shovel. and dig all the way to hell and not get under rebellion. Because his belly will fall back in the hole until The standards are so low … we are playing limbo. Under rebellion ….Time to take the sword and kill the snake no more fleshly rebellion in the church… Truth is they are NOT THE BRIDE BUT THE SPIRIT of Antichrist … They teach another Jesus… They prepare a drink offering for that group they are none of his… They are not the redeemed… But the deceived… GOD has turned them over 2 thier own delusion they have believed a lie… lest they repent… they will die without Christ … We can’t. crawl under the belly of rebellion!

  130. @Andrew, you are a little confused about what is going on , I will fix your quote for you,

    “Prosperity teaching was invented by Satan and has flooded the whole world. I have personally seen how huge it is in Africa, Asia, and worldwide. So such “pastors” are now everywhere. Does that mean “Satan’s” Christianity is ruining the world? – YES !!! (If you want to be direct about it).”

    The false catholic religion was lost to the world and now the false protestant religion is being lost to the world, Jesus is exposing the truth about man’s religion. If those churches had belonged to Jesus ,He would have protected them from the false prosperity gospel.

  131. Averyl Aug 22nd 2013

    Looking for fellow believers in New Plymouth, NZ.

    If you know any, please direct them to

    Not a new church but set up to unite & link those coming out of the church systems.

  132. Averyl Aug 22nd 2013

    Direct them to the facebook page New Plymouth Church NZ

  133. Lightning Storm Aug 22nd 2013

    Good comment JeffM. Amen.

  134. the answer is always scriptural Ezekiel 34

  135. Andrew Aug 22nd 2013

    So the “devil” helped them invent Prosperity doctrine?

    Of course!

    But this does not absolve them for spreading it around the world.

    The church is being poisoned right around the earth through this sick teaching.

    There will be a reckoning.

    -Andrew Strom

  136. The Holy Spirit will leave them and they won’t even know that He is gone. Another false religion is joining the false catholic religion, they claim to believe in Jesus but He does not run their churches or their lives. The Lord will always push those with one foot in the world back into the world farther than they wanted to be , so that they can see their error.

    The Lord just has the one plan and He is sticking to it, believe in Jesus as Lord. We will all be tested by things like this to see if we do believe or do we love this world in the place of God.

  137. I share your sentiments, I see the handwriting all around us.
    It is time for so called Christians to get out of the world, repent and turn back to the one who died for us, and indeed the world. Those who are unable to discern the times and signs, please Listen he will come as a thief in the night. If you are not in the BOOK and on your KNEES, you have gotten off the “Narrow Path.”

    THE WORLD IS FULL OF FALSE PROPHETS.
    JESUS IS LORD & GOD IS THE ALMIGHTY & HE NEVER CHANGES! AMEN?

  138. Does anyone else feel like the media wants people to know the basic outline of the Bible and give a rough idea of what Christianity is (even if its not really 100% correct)? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Bible series on the History channel.

    When that strong delusion or whatever comes, and our ‘dear friend’ the Assyrian comes into the picture, he will utilize every archtype and every myth from all religions to sell the one ‘true’ religion. Thanks to our ‘wonderful’ public schools and the idiot box, most people have at least been introduced to the outlines of most other religions and sects around the world.

    Not exactly a profound insight, I know, but should we want this to go on TV? Ugg…no. Look how well refuting the practices of Mega Churches went. :( Consumerist society = Mammon is god…anyone that tries to take your money is stealing your dreams, right?

    Please don’t mistake my sarcasm for sincerity :) If we can’t have a laugh about the insanity in the world, it becomes burdensome. I think everyone on this site “knows what the deal is” I think that it would be beneficial to the Church as a whole, to be very cautious about calling our brothers and sisters “real Christians” it does more harm than good in a lot of cases and now-a-days we are all lumped into the ‘fundamentalist’ category (like it or hate it). That means the majority of society thinks we represent the same values as the crack-pots from the Westboro Baptist Church (even though its a cult). Rebuke with love and make somebody smile. Make a joke. Its amazing what the smallest amount of courtesy can do to change another person’s perception of humanity (even if brief).

    I love you’re message Andrew, and I love you’re honesty; but God didn’t give us an entire church full of Frank Bartleman’s for a reason. Sorry for the long comment.

  139. Reality TV is the new narcissism and it encourages people to think it’s all right for these characters to discuss intimate personal feelings with their family members for “entertainment”. There’s no respect for the things that should remain between a couple, like commitment discussions and so forth. Everyone wants fame and to be seen and heard and justified. The selfish generation wants nothing more than to be photographed, video-cammed, electronically and digitally caught on camera, facebooked, tweeting, it’s spiritual suicide. It seems like the younger generation wants to only be devoted to the Lord unless everyone sees it.

    This show just gives many people what they want. It gives the participant pastors their fix for attention.

    It gives the audience sensational viewing pleasure of watching supposed men of God act greedily. It gives the atheists and unbelievers a chance to gloat at the hypocrisy of christians. It will reinforce unbelievers into thinking that all of christianity is a get-rich scam.

    It’s really depressing to see these men pray with others and then in the same breath preach this offensive prosperity gospel and teach entitlement of material things. The salutation the writers, Paul and Peter, etc., gave in each letter of the epistles did say that they prayed that each one would prosper as their soul prospered, but we, who’ve been introduced to Jesus through the Holy Spirit, know that this salutation has been taken way out of context by these so-called prosperity teachers.

    It’s like every unclean bird is being uncaged today. We can’t pretend that the church is still effective. What we call “church” today is quickly becoming the enemy of Christ. I’ve been feeling so defeated lately and this only exacerbates it. Will be ever hear a good report? I think Satan is working overtime and knows his time is very short.

  140. Andrew Aug 23rd 2013

    I published Torben’s videos because they were a “good report”.

    I published about the spiritual hunger in Romania. That too was a good report.

    But yes – there is a lot to be sad about in today’s world.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  141. There’s something demonic that’s been unleashed and it’s a spirit of fakery, fake christianity; one of the ‘dominions’ the cult of christian 7 dominion teachers are hoping to influence, is Hollywood. They like the entertainment industry, as it is the best medium that they know will get the most advertising. Politicians, educators, film-makers, ministry leaders, media leaders, all claiming they are christians and who say they work for the cause of Christ, are wolves in sheep’s clothing and by their fruit, which is fruit that seeks the sensational and the shallow and the beautiful, the pageants, the rich realestate moguls, the Esthers, the great queens and kings who sell their wares claiming these wares are for the good of the Body of Christ, but are cheap imitations of the real thing.

    Any christian who uses his/her secular job as a pulpit to push christian values, bible films, charities and does it while they demand allegiance and donations from voters, fans, for personal agendas are the worst wolves in sheep’s clothing today.

    Again, back to the entertainment dominion that Dominionists want to take over, a fake humility is used, a fake family values promotion is used, successful sports athletes, celebrities and anyone who seeks fame and attention, are being used to promote their successes and call it christian blessedness, stay AWAY from these wolves. There’s not only falsity in their teaching, but there’s a spiritual evil that permeates everything they touch.

    Christians who donate their money to these charlatans will have to give account. Anyone who needs to draw half a million dollar salary to do charitable work and call it Christ’s work is way off the christian path. Any christian leader who asks for people’s money and promises that it goes towards helping the needy, and who uses the donations to buy expensive transportation (planes) and expensive materials and uses 80% to cover overhead costs is a charlatan.

    Anyone who calls themselves christians who follow these charlatans and encourages them to keep up these overly-expensive charitable foundations are being drawn into the plan of the dominionists. That plan is to dominate. Usually, those who dominate are in the minority and they need the majority to hold them up. There are no middle class christians much anymore. We are now seeing christians who are struggling or christians who are wealthy. And the wealthy christians are NOT sharing their wealth with those in need. Their donations are being sent to other rich christians or foundations or outfits that do not relieve the suffering one bit. It’s a scam of anathema proportions and it’s happening right now in the U.S. and possibly other western nations. Get out of her, please brothers and sisters and I don’t mean the country, but get out of the system of rewarding the bold and beautiful. If a man or woman promises wonderful things and then asks for money to set the program or to endorse ‘values’ candidates, and they are self-claimed christians? They are mocking Christ and they are stifling every good work that evangelists and sacrificial pastors have given their lives for. The fallow ground and the tilling and planting and watering has been done and these wolves and wolverines come in and sweep it up taking all the credit and don’t care about souls. They are apostates.

  142. Andrew Aug 23rd 2013

    Very sweeping statements, Marie.

    Some in that Industry truly want to glorify Jesus.

    But generally yes – much of it is a quagmire.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  143. ValleyAnt Aug 23rd 2013

    Someone told me to come and check out this article, etc. I’m responding before reading the comments, then I’ll read the comments and respond.

    I’ll major first on the positives:

    1. I’m very happy that this is going to be on TV, especially as it has very popular preachers like Clarence McLendon. This can, among Christians, open some ignorant eyes and make some simple hearts think.

    2. I was very happy to see at least one of these ministers display a very godly trait that’s rare even among ‘more godly’ministers: Ron Gibson and his heart for the younger generations. He says something that even if not wholly true gives some insight into his hidden heart: “Best part of my job is helping hurting people.” Gibson ‘waxes’ even more righteous in his sincere appeal to young men trapped in a dead end lifestyle: “Living in the streets, dodging bullets? That’s the low life. There’s a life, brothers, where you can be free.” Even if this man commits the worst sins behind closed doors, at least one chorus of angels said, “Amen” when Gibson said that. Crime, poverty, and being the tail instead of the head is not the end for so many African Americans; there is a Life where they can be free. Amen.

  144. Hi all,

    I think so many are missing one major point…
    From personal experience if something is on television relateing to christianity , be it good or bad , people start talking and it opens chances for me to witness to them even more than usual.
    So what satan means for evil God turns for good.
    American christians get ready when this programme airs to use the oppurtunity to spread the gospel.
    When people say ” look at these hippocrites that call themselves pastors etc ” I will agree with them and talk about the difference found with Jesus, its and open door to talk about sin and the work of the cross.
    Sieze the day and thank God for opening the doors now to witness…. the early church would.

    God bless,

    Grant
    [email protected]

  145. Matt:6:33 Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all his righteousness and these things shall be added unto you. Obedience is better than sacrifice these LA preachers has replaced the gospel of Christ with the prosperity message They promote sending money to their ministry God will bless them with riches, wealth, prosperity even healing. This reality show will do nothing but cause a great divide among the body of Christ. Many will be drawn by this show by pure deception, others greed, the innocent will think that money buys the blessings of God. All the while these greedy preachers are getting more wealthy millionaires seeking self glorification, more money, popularity, fame seeking to be famous stars in a sense. This show will not glorify Jesus but rather bring a reproach against his name and more attacks against God, Christ, the churches and christian’s by the world. I was once a victim caught up in a greedy ministry please read my story.

    I was an innocent victim of one famous greedy televangelist when I was much younger I trusted him & his ministry faithfully I supported this ministry after marriage with 5 young children my husband lost his job our lights were turned off $75.00 in those days we had no where to turn I remembered this minister I called him and told our situation asked if they would pay the THE LIGHT COMPANY DIRECT so we could have some lights I was told that I needed more faith & probably I had sin in my life.
    I was devastated I cried & cried thought about all those years that I faithfully supported this ministry 1 John 3:17 But who so hath this worlds good, and seeth his brother hath need,and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him; how dwelleth the love of God in him? I sent this scripture 2 this minister & of course he acted as if I did not exist this is why I take a hard stand against such treachery these preachers ask 4 money then why cant they give back what has been given 2 them
    it’s time for the churches to stop playing church and playing with God for the bible tells us that our God…. Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire! our life is but a vapor not promised to no one I plead with these greedy preachers to STOP IN THE NAME OF JESUS USING HIS NAME TO SCAM THE INNOCENT OF MORE AND MORE MONEY FRAUDULENTLY USING JESUS NAME SHAME SHAME SHAME

    The bible says in Ecclesiastes there’s nothing new under the sun these same familiar spirits (devils) who manifested themselves in bible days that sold in the temple the money changers are the same ones that are operating through these modern days Prosperity Greedy Preacher see my youtube video called

    THE GOSPEL MONEY GREED CALL we pray that more of these scammer’s who operate under the name of Christianity will be EXPOSED!!!

  146. ValleyAnt Aug 23rd 2013

    Okay, I read maybe the first twenty-five comments and decided to write a comment of my own. (Maybe I’ll read more later.)

    Last year, the Lord told me to “seek apostolic fellowship”. Apostolic just means basically ‘church as it was in the Book of Acts’. I didn’t know this and kept going to ‘church'; then the Lord took me to the instance where the angel(s) chided the disciples who came looking for Jesus in the tomb and said the same to me: “Why do you seek the living among the dead?”

    It’s my belief that anywhere church is set up in ways that limit the Holy Spirit, overt and covert sins will be in abundance. The preachers in the above series represent those with overt sins. Which do we prefer–overt or covert sins. The only real way to escape both is to ‘do church’ on God’s terms. God’s terms are suffering to our comfort. They sound like this: God said to Abraham, “I am God Almighty. Walk Before Me, and be perfect (BLAMELESS).” Jesus said to us, “Be perfect (BLAMELESS) as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

    The epistles can be hard to understand (and often are saying much more than they seem to be saying on the surface), because Paul is counseling from the perspective of perfection. God is seeking something holy, something perfect among Christians, because He is holy and perfect. Without doing life on God’s terms, sin and compromise must have their way somehow or another, in some way or another. The only effective way to escape the foolishness and present a genuine and blameless Christianity to the world is to return again to the beginning and build God’s People (the Church) as they were built in the early Church.

  147. ValleyAnt Aug 23rd 2013

    Grant Sutton, well summarized. Goodnight all.

  148. 100% Zululander Aug 23rd 2013

    JeffM that means when I sin it’s not my fault, it’s the devil. “the devil made me do it”

  149. Hollywood is all about money and anything that will draw a crowd, so they can make more money.

    They have other Christian shows that are doing quite well:

    1. “The Amish Mafia” :)

    2: Another show is about Amish teens who leave home and are running around the big city trying every sin that anyone can think of.

    Its all about money and exploiting people and their sins before the world.

    GaryB

  150. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    AMEN ValleyAnt! Very well said.

    People are constantly pointing and saying “the world is so evil IN THIS DAY AND AGE……..Its never been so evil, we must be coming into the Great Tribulation”

    As ValleyAnt has pointed out in ECCLESIASTES….
    “THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN”

    Perhaps what IS new…..Is that an AWAKENING is happening and people are seeing what has been there all the time! EVIL DISGUISED AS CHRISTIANITY.

    God’s LIGHT is INCREASING and EXPOSING what has been HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS all along.

    For those who have eyes to see, they have seen THROUGH this disguise all along and have been called all kinds of names and accused of all kinds of heresy.

    But now those same accusers are WAKING UP!

  151. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    Amen, Grant. God is BIGGER than EVIL.

  152. Why are we surprised! The bible said it would be like this in the last days, which looks like days of Noah to me.

  153. quote: Why are we surprised! The bible said it would be like this in the last days, which looks like days of Noah to me. quote…

    So true.

    I think now that we have modern technology (media, internet, TV, radio, satellite), we can all see any event taking place around the world in real time. It’s not just some isolated event that is taking place in our home towns any longer. But we can see the scope of wickedness and evil that covers the earth.

    The whole world will see the two prophets laying dead in the streets in Jerusalem and they will all go out and buy each other gifts.

    Revelation 11:9-11

    9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

    This could not have happened centuries ago, where the whole earth could look on their dead bodies in the streets.

    As in the days of “Noah”, it sure looks that way.

    GaryB

  154. watchful Aug 23rd 2013

    Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

    Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

    Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

    Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.

    Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

    Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

    Luk 17:32 Remember Lot’s wife.

    Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

    Lot was told to flee to the mountains, the exact same words Jesus spoke concerning when Jerusalem would be destroyed, surrounded by armies – remembering that destruction and judgement for the church is spiritual in nature. We are seeing the church being judged in our days – strong delusion IS the judgment of the church. It is very meet that we be troubled in our righteous souls as Lot was over the condition of the church, and be clothed in humble gratitude if it be that He has seen fit to pull us out.

    Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

  155. watchful Aug 23rd 2013

    Truly, may I just say, I don’t think there is anything wrong in being surprised by the Lord. I know I sure was surprised and dumbfounded when the Lord began revealing these things to me, and in utter awe such that I could hardly get my head around it all. Things may be written but not necessarily revealed to a person. Anytime He reveals a thing it is a surprise, sometimes a delight, sometimes unfortunately other kinds of feelings arise, and appropriately so. But always it is a gift we don’t ‘deserve’ and that is what humbles us. Absolutely agree about the terrible unprecedented scope of things, otherwise there would have been no need for the prophecies concerning these days, this is how we see what days these are. The restrainer is being, or has been, taken away.

  156. 100% Zululander, what I meant was that Satan is our enemy , not other people. With people our goal is to help them find Jesus and know His ways, we serve them , we do not fight against them. The prosperity preachers need their sin of idolatry dealt with, but after dealing with them we don’t want to be found as needing to be dealt with because we did it in a self-righteous way. The prosperity teachers and America are not the enemy, they are the lost that we must lay down our lives to reach, just like Jesus did, we share in His love for all people. The Lord will test our hearts when we say something is wrong, to see if we are serving Him or using Him as an excuse to attack people.

    Colossians 3:5-8

    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    5 Therefore, put to death the earthly parts of your nature — sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed (which is a form of idolatry); 6 for it is because of these things that God’s anger is coming on those who disobey him. 7 True enough, you used to practice these things in the life you once lived; 8 but now, put them all away — anger, exasperation, meanness, slander and obscene talk.

  157. gloria goold Aug 23rd 2013

    Yes , let it be shown!!!

  158. 100% Zululander Aug 23rd 2013

    I am honestly pained about this thing being shown.
    It will not bring glory to God in any way. Folk who don’t attend church will think this is what christianity is.
    All we have had so far is a lot of theology & gung gho bring it on & show time etc.
    To wantonly flash this terrible representation of the church around the world to ignorant & unsaved people is iniquitous at best and possibly blasphemous.
    I don’t understand why the church isn’t appalled & praying for the ideas demise.
    NO ONE in all past posts has given any coherent reason to show it. Dealing with with all the kinds of people who will see it & their responses. Please think this through.
    Andrew I am appalled that you would suggest we “show them up”. To whom? for what purpose? Will that change them?
    If you think through these questions properly there is no way you can support the showing in any way.
    Support the exposing of the churches ungodliness to the world? How shocking & ungodly.
    Andrew, if you want to expose them then go there & do so to their faces in love. NO OTHER WAY WILL DO if you want Gods blessing on it.
    I write this with my heart in my boots I feel so bad about it

  159. Claudia Aug 23rd 2013

    The LIGHT needs to shine on all darkness, according to YHWH’s Will.

    The wise virgins need to be sure they have their lamps filled with oil. The foolish virgins will find themselves lost in the dark when their lamps flicker out as their journey begins in the middle of the darkness to meet the returning BrideGroom.

    Almost empty…..flickering lamps…..such are those churches ran by mankind. Many have become harlots and whores.

    The Church of YHWH, Yeshua, shines forth brightly for those who still have eyes.

    Satan will be sure that the show airs….because it is on the electrical media that most people now learn their “truths”. How sad…..how shallow. Many will gladly accept this as their reality and excuse to continue in their unrepentant, lost way…..never seeing, or seeking, the true way, the narrow path that will lead them to His Glory.

    Score another one for satan’s greatest tool….ELECTRICITY. Let YHWH’s Will be done.

    How sad to see Yeshua mocked and spit upon as He is dragged to the cross.

    I feel so lucky that God found us and we recognized His voice, our Shepard, and we chose to follow Him home. I remind myself often that even one hundred years of suffering here will be nothing compared to the eternity we have living with Him. Our attitudes of love towards Him, even during our hard times makes Him feel so good…..and I am sure, pleased, that we, His children want to be with Him….and that we eagerly look forward to what we will be when He has finished His work in us……each unique….and with purpose. I want so much to make Him feel good after what He suffered for us. How do we take away the pain that He endured,…not just on the cross, but the pain of dissappoint and lost loves as He watches the course of humanity. Our perfect God…..who paid our price….can He forget the pain….like He forgets our sins when we repent…..or will that pain always be with Him, not felt, but remembered…..a token of humanity? How do we make it up to Him? If we sin less, will that pain in the past be less? Is our worship enough, our love, our obedience, our life, …we will always be in His debt. A debt that He will cancel. How lucky we are that our God is Supreme, the most powerful, knowing all things, and working all things out for the best…..the very best!

    How lucky we are that His Holy Spirit unites us and gives us the ability to pray for one another in spirit and go directly to Him with our prayers. No wonder we will need all eternity to heap praises upon Him!

  160. Claudia Aug 23rd 2013

    Amen, Watchful!

    But, we need to remember, and perhaps comfort our sorrow in knowing that YHWH’s Will is going to be done. Even satan is under His control. We cry to see the Work of Yeshua mocked and dirtied….but it has happened, and will continue to happen. If YHWH wills it to be exposed…it will be exposed. He knows so very much more than we can even comprehend. Purhaps those who are within the empty lanterns will realize before it is too late, and go seek to fill their lanterns before the BrideGroom returns.

    Yeshua was crucified/slain from the foundations of the world, and I cannot help but think that His Cross will not be over until after the Wrath…..perhaps also at the end of the Mellinnium when He once more will have to destroy those who rebelled, who He would have rather given LIFE too. This has got to cause Him so much pain.

    It will not be pleaseant for YHWH destroying those who hate His Will, but He stays TRUE to His STANDARDS….He Is Who He Is…..and does not change.

  161. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    As it was said earlier by someone…..What do you PREFER? Evil and sin to be COVERT or EXPOSED to the Light of Jesus?

    “christians” have been COVERING UP THEIR SINS FOR SO LONG that they now DESIRE the world to follow suit, instead of being brought to repentance.

    It’s ALL about REPUTATION! PRIDE does not want to be HUMBLED.

  162. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    In the OT, God Himself says that His JUDGMENT FOR IDOLATRY is that HE will SEND DECEPTION AND DELUSION to the people because of their IDOLATRY.

    2Ki 17:32 NASB – They also feared the LORD and appointed from among themselves priests of the high places, who acted for them in the houses of the high places.

    2Ki 17:33 NASB – They feared the LORD and SERVED THEIR OWN gods according to the custom of the nations from among whom they had been carried away into exile.

  163. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    Excellent, Claudia. AMEN

  164. Dear Andrew: When I commented about good reports, I was referring to the fake church, who take and take and never give back. Media love to mock christians they love to report on the fakes. That’s what I meant. I’m sorry if you thought I was referring to posts here. I love this site. It exposes the dark, and of course, the fake.

    I feel defeated lately because when I try to talk about Jesus to anyone, they right away point to the secular media’s take on christianity and believe everything they hear. Bless you too Andrew!!

  165. Claudia Aug 23rd 2013

    Lightning Storm; Evil should be hated, or if not, you do not love YHWH.

    There is a way of exposing evil, showing the Light into the Dark, with a precise, clean beam, that does not demean our Creator and His Goal.

    As I said before, YHWH uses satan for YHWH’s purposes. When satan has his hand on it…..you can see the dirt, and you can see what satan is trying to construct in the process also. It is not done as cleanly and purely as YHWH’s pure revelations, and it causes pain and sorrow for those who love YHWH to see what has been falsified by man or satan. Satan will use a broad brush to cover what is good also.

    Inspite of that…..YHWH allows things to happen, and as i said before, if YHWH wants you…..you will be chosen…..and you will come to Him, sooner or later. It is all about the condition of your individual heart…..not the heart of the fake churches, the nations, or others….nor is it about the lies that satan broadcasts. The true sheep will hear the distant call of their Sheppard and they will home in on that call….tho they may perish on the way if they linger….but YHWH will note that they were coming.

  166. Claudia,

    :)

  167. Thanks brothers and sisters for insightful comments. We are at the end of days, aren’t we? Although the ‘last days’ could, in the Lord’s eyes, be another 50 or 100 years or so.

    I thank the Lord for all those who are still working, under the radar, those who don’t have a mega-church star rating. And it is encouraging to see my brother Torben and others stand up and do the hard work and try to bring us back to where we should be………we may see a revival yet. One last revival that will save the oppressed, the sick, the leftovers, the defeated, and even those who are still in the apostate church system. I pray we see this soon – the Lord knows we are so desperate to see Him move now on this earth. If all I did was depend on what I hear in media and news, I’d spiritually die. I have to believe that there is a remnant and that it is doing the Lord’s work.

    This is the crux of what is happening in the USA and other similar nations. We are at the crossroads. Multitudes in the valley of decision. We have a new enemy and that is ‘media’. All of it is controlled by forces we can’t identify, but we know it is not good. Can’t go into detail here, but media in the US has hypnotized many christians. Radio personalities, TV news personalities, all are hypnotizing not only average christians, but pastors and christian leaders. The arrogant, wealthy and greedy wolves are bewitching many christians and pulling them away from the truth of God’s ways. It’s almost to the point where, if a professed christian man or woman is profitting monetarily while ‘sharing’ the gospel, through any means, then most likely it’s false. That’s the great line drawn in the sand right now. If they want to get rich preaching the gospel, or get powerful and celebrated by offering moralistic messages, we have to be spiritually wise and stay away.

    When christian leaders (Rome) give allegiance to media personalities and those who are the wealthy movers and shakers of a nation (Satan’s dominion), then we must know that we should NOT contribute to any of it.

    I wonder why no leaders, except a few today, like Revival School and a dozen others maybe, are the only ones who ask us to reason this out. I question why there are no other evangelists and leaders and Luthers and Wesleys, etc. who won’t come out and speak up against the rising materialistic/greed/hatred of the poor/racist/bigoted/mocking/slanderous/angry/mobmentality/war-monguering/gloating/self-claimed christian personalities that have come on the scene these past years. Many christians trust these people with their lives. What is going on?????? We hear self-proclaimed pastors scratch the backs of men like Ted Nugent and jokingly suggest that they unleash their hunting dogs on democrats. And they think this is a good witness for Christ??? This is what unbelievers are hearing and seeing. No wonder the fakes are preventing souls from entering in. (Ezekiel 34)

    And, even so, Lord Jesus, we have to pray and believe and know God has a plan. May Ted Nugent and his family and others who are in the valley of decision meet the true Jesus, and may we all be protected from the claws of the enemy.

    This is what’s on my mind right now. If power, and might, and wealth is involved in preaching the gospel, it’s setting a trap. Some might have seeds planted and thank the Lord, they’ll hear and seek further for themselves, only because the Lord is so merciful and doesn’t want any to perish. But, the powerful and mighty and wealthy christians would say that God’s wrath is moments away, because of the sin of homosexuality or the sin of laziness, or the sin of socialism or the sin of timidity. But the sin of greed, selfishness, power-lust, amassing fortune at the cost of taking away from the poor doesn’t warrant God’s wrath?

  168. Andrew Aug 23rd 2013

    Perhaps God is allowing the secular world to expose and condemn all the sickness in the church

    BECAUSE OUR OWN LEADERS REFUSE TO DO IT!!

    Sad.

    -Andrew

  169. Andrew Aug 23rd 2013

    Someone said I must “hate” America because I stated the fact that the Prosperity gospel was invented and spread from America.

    No. Actually I love America.

    Just because I am calling her to Repentance, does not mean I “hate” her.

    Too many American Christians idolize America too much. They simply refuse to see what America is spreading around the world. The fact is that the USA right now is spreading far more evil in the world than good. Media Violence, pornography, lust, homosexuality, Prosperity gospels, and every sick thing. Sadly, a huge amount of it comes from that nation.

    Why cannot people face these simple facts?

    Why can they not see that Judgment must follow?

    Sad

    -Andrew Strom.

  170. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    Claudia…

    I hate evil……but, EVERY SIN IS EVIL…there is no sin worse than another.

    ONE SIN in this world would nail Jesus Christ to the cross, because ALL SIN ORIGINATES WITH SELF-LOVE.

    I hate sin, therefore I am NOT going to be a CO-CONSPIRATOR WITH THE DEVIL AND SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG AND KEEP IT IN THE DARKNESS just so that self-righteous prideful “christians” can have a “good reputation.

  171. Lightning Storm Aug 23rd 2013

    SELF-LOVE should have been SELF-WORSHIP.

  172. One of them said “Pastors are just like everybody else”…they are human and make mistakes, yes, but are they, as all true believers should, be in the world but not of the world? The preview makes these guys appear to love the world and it’s riches.

  173. booter Aug 24th 2013

    This Truly is an Abomination! Yes GOD is Bigger than the Evil that men do! This showcases the ‘Really Flamboyant Big Fish’ but let’s be Honest. There are many: false prophets, bogus preachers, wolves-in-sheep’s clothing types operating in the Church today.

    If a Believer truly Believes ‘The Bible is the Accurate/Inerrant Word of GOD’ then anything which ‘adds to or takes away’ from The Word of GOD is Not of GOD! There are far too many who would ‘cloud these issues’ and seek to distract & dissuade anyone who questions their words and actions. Many will claim they “have received new revelations from GOD = ‘Exclusively for their Ears Only’? (one of the hallmarks which defines a cult)

    Many in Ministry are; ‘flying below the radar’ and ‘hiding in Plain Sight’. Far too many Believers have passed on checking theologies & messages from pulpits against Scripture. Inerrancy refers to ‘Accept it All as GOD authored & inspired or pass on it All, then rewrite the Gospels to fit with your new beliefs. “Any and All Deviations are = Deviant.” All=both Great and Small must bow to their knees to acknowledge GOD is LORD and SAVIOR, No! Exceptions, No! Compromises, It’s All about Eternal Life or Death Choices.

    It’s been postulated that “GOD is Bigger than man’s Evil” this is a Wholly True statement, along with the (proviso) which states “mankind has been given the gift of Free Will” in order to determine their own choices. Free Will (individual) is mankind’s; Birth Right, Responsibility, and sometimes A Cross to Bear, never a thing to be taken lightly, Accountability is on us, according to GOD’s Word.

    GOD Bless! “I’m No Saint, just a sinner Saved by GOD. I try and follow GOD’s Truths, Not man’s version 1.1″

  174. ValleyAnt Aug 24th 2013

    Thanks, Lightning Storm. We know the bad news; it’s time to seek God for the Good News that overcomes all the bad.

    Grant Sutton said that when people point out the hypocrisy of pastors, it’s a good time to agree and talk about how Jesus is different. This actually grabs a person’s attention when you agree with the facts; but then you should point to the Truth that’s greater than the facts.

    A month ago, a pastor, full of himself perhaps because he has seen spiritual victories, gave me one of his teaching CDs. Listening to it, I was bored to tears; but no tears came until I opened my Bible and turned to the instance where Jesus met two disciples on their way to the town of Emmaus. As soon as I read where He joined them on the road, I began to weep in spite of myself, because my spirit man RECOGNIZED the Lord. I continued to read, and when Jesus prayed, broke the bread and gave it to His disciples and their eyes were opened as they RECOGNIZED the Lord, I wept some more. I was listening to the pastor on CD as I read my Bible, and the chasm of difference between Jesus and this pastor couldn’t be any wider. God is perfect and is “high and lifted up”; man is “[mis]shapen in iniquity”, made ugly and far more inferior than originally intended by the fallen nature, though so many ministers believe they are able, capable, and worthy to speak for or represent God.

    There’s much more to be said regarding this but I said some in a previous comment which was suddenly erased shortly before I posted it. I was at a Bible study yesterday, and the Holy Spirit began to teach me about some of the dynamics that keep some people from seeking the Kingdom instead of following false ministers and attending fallen churches, etc. Much of this is about timing, not only that ‘things are bad’. Please closely consider this: the Bible shows often that a person can do a good thing but see no results but yet see multiplied success when God specifically sends them. The best example is the disciples whom Jesus could, before His ascension as He did before, give power and authority to “go into all the world” since He’d already given them the Holy Spirit. But instead, He told them to remain in the city until they had received the Holy Spirit and explained, “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be My witnesses…” If anyone goes ‘witnessing’ and sees no results, it’s because there are two types of witnessing: one without power and one with. It’s often a matter of timing, really of being sent by the Lord. Paul said, “How will they know unless someone tells them… unless someone is sent…” Most people haven’t even heard the full gospel; how can they be saved until they are told it.

    There are many who seem to love false Christianity but who will be saved when they witness or hear the Word “spoken in season”. “Like apples of gold in settings of silver, so is a word spoken in season” and “to everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven.” Some who follow the false now will turn to the real when the time comes, just as it was with Paul and with many (e.g. Pharisees like Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea) in the Bible. Therefore, things really are bad; but there is greater hope than it appears to be. That hope, of course, is within the One who makes the godliest pastor black as night in comparison–the Lord who many have heard of by the hearing of the ears but whose eyes have not yet seen. Not yet.

  175. Lightning Storm Aug 24th 2013

    AMEN AMEN AMEN….ValleyAnt.

  176. fabakary Aug 24th 2013

    My dad once look on me with a serious face and said to me “you see non of my Child will be a millionaire, you may make millions in the future but it is not for you to keep but to share with others ” And my Dad is an unbeliever and it is funny that sometimes unbelievers in darkness can know something of the Light of God , having never seen the light than some professing Christians who claim to see the light. The problem is not whether God will to prosper Christian materially or not many times He wills but it is not to be accumulated but to share with others . Folks will teach God will to prosper Christian but they never talk or emphasis the purpose of the blessing and so it makes those “blessed” to be self centered ,ever desiring more and more, never content , and so care not their needy neighbor. We will give account of every blessing God has committed into our hands. Even God spiritual riches committed to our hand s are not just to be enjoy by us alone but to be share with others not to talk of material riches. Accumulating material riches is a weariness to the flesh it does not heal , does not give peace and if they will be honest they will agree that there is no inner peace in accumulating this things. The lack of basic needs like food is indeed hell on earth but over accumulation of material riches just for the pleasure of ones self is another “hell” of its own.

  177. Claudia Aug 24th 2013

    Lightning Storm; I agreed, it shouldn’t be swept under the rug, let YHWH have satan reveal it….as is being done.

    Brethren should not be celebrating the act tho, dancing in the pathways for what is happening. When sin is revealed it is a time of sadness, especially when it is represented as being in the Church. I know many do, but i am not one of those that think these man made organization who obviously are walking the path laid before them by satan, no matter what they claim…..are part of the church.

    However…..the ignorant and unexposed, shallow, will view this and judge the real Church which is Jesus Christ…..by what they see these human, ……..supposid representives of Christ….. doing. And they will seek no further to know Yeshua.

    That being said….things are wrapping up…..and things will be revealed according to YHWH’s Will…..not ours. I am good with that.

  178. Claudia Aug 24th 2013

    Thank you, Andrew, for explaining your stand on America. This nation has prospered, grown large, assisted other nations with it’s wealth, technology, and was influential because of these things…..and YES….those are all the wrong reasons for being influential….like the rich boy buying his friends. But that is what the “man”, the “flesh” looks towards for their guidance and emmulations. That is what the world looks for. America took a wrong turn back in the late 1800’s….and turned from Godly principals and started to pursue those things that the natural man craves….and that influence came from Europe. Yes we are sick, as is the entire world….because of the people that live on it…and the things they crave. I fear that as a nation the leaders back those who hate Israel….but that is not the majority of the people here…who became too involved with their own life circle to care about who got into our government. They stopped seeking knowledge and aloneness with YHWH, which creates a nature to stand for what YHWH stands for. They are now being ruled by children, because they set these things aside and became lazy, and self endulgence. Just like Israel who turned from YHWH and His Yeshua….America is going down the wrong path and we will be shaken to our boots….just as will Israel. I don’t consider that a judgement….but a Wise Farmer removing the chaff. The shaking has started in the middle east….and will spread over all the world.

    Most peoples, including those who have seemed to find their god, instead of looking directly at their god, they keep looking at the man between them and god. They are not comfortable without that human support….they are afraid they will not be popular if they don’t fit within a group. Because of that….their growth is based on herd dynamics and mutual support…right or wrong,…… based on something that will wither and die. The disciples of Yeshua did not stay banded together for mutual support….they were told by Yeshua before He left to go out into the world…to walk out relying only on the support of YHWH. Their knowledge and growth was dependent on their contact and communication with their God, not dependent on the people around them. How many times did Yeshua go out into the wilderness to be alone with YHWH? Why? Because He needed to be recharged from the draining negativity of humans….who are dead, tho they walk. Some connect with the lifeline that is YHWH, but if they keep looking primarily for their sustinance from other humans, that lifeline could become clogged.

    Once connected up to YHWH we should become His tool, and our goal should be to make our own human desires become secondary. We should crave to understand Him better, and to understand His Will for us, so we can be His Tool. We should not identify with anything here on earth as defining us….our nation….our friends….our enemies……our community….our health….our station in life……our accomplishments or lack of accomplishments…..our approval from others…..disapproval from others…..etc. The only thing that should define us is YHWH….that we are His….and we are lacking. That puts us in a position to be humble and teachable….by Him….not by man.

    Until that understanding is achieved….that aloneness with YHWH…..that bonding to YHWH by each individual….any gathering together will be subject to misalignment to the human orientation taking over the God orientation. And that is what is wrong with the churches of today.

    No….I am not saying humans should not come together….they are commanded to gather with others who are connected to YHWH…in their dealings, their friendships, their efforts and labors…in order to be a stronger force in all things. But…that gathering should not be the source of their LIGHT. Each should have a direct line LIGHT within them that is not dependent on the LIGHT of others. That LIGHT comes from the Wilderness where YHWH waits to give His LIGHT to each Believer in Yeshua.

    Humans should have stayed in the rural areas, not gathered together in cities. Churches should have stayed small serving the neighborhood communities. Churches should not be places that we receive our identities….but places where we can go to serve others. The whole design of churches went down the wrong path because of man looking towards man. Prayer and worship should be done in the heart….continuously….and in all of our conversations. Churches should not have become affirmation centers…..but places to go and feed the needy, cloth the needy, meet to work out plans to help others, make things for others, keep track of the community like a farmer keeps track of his animals so he can care for those who need help. And..yes…as in all gatherings we praise YHWH….that is always appropriate!

  179. Claudia Aug 24th 2013

    Yes, there is a FLOOD that covers the whole world.

    Prosperity teaching is just one of the elements in the Flood that covers the entire world and comes from the serpents mouth (Rev.12:15) in an attempt to drown the woman (who is two in one: Both physical Israel and Spiritual Yeshua Church). This “Flood” starts out of the serpents mouth, and than also the waters that seek to destroy flow out of those hearts he has corrupted,….just like out of Yeshua’s Followers there flows living waters. It is ancient in origin, long before America was a nation. In these latter times, like a fire in desparation, it seeks to consume what YHWH yearns to save….but we know that the earth opens up and consumes this flood (world wide economic and technological collapse…not to mention the horrendous earthquakes that are birthing right now within our earth). The serpent fails in corrupting all hearts….and than he will seek to kill those hearts that beat for YHWH…those that did not fall for his falsehoods, but have their lanterns full and wait for a brief time for their returning Master.

    Prosperity teaching comes from corrupt hearts, and those corrupt hearts are all over the world, and those hearts use many “methods” to achieve their drownings, not just the religious industry. The “god” that controls those hearts uses all that has become prominent in the world (or at least that is where it is seen better due to that prominence). They are using the world religious systems, banking systems, the media systems, the technology genie, and the capitalist systems world wide.

    And, YES….YHWH’s judgement will find them whereever they are, no matter what nation they are in. All nations will experience the WRATH. All hearts who covet, murder, steal, betray, dishonor their parents and worship false gods and do not repent will be judged and destroyed. Nations are meaningless, their rule and authorites will all be taken away….as it should be.

    It is the corrupt heart that will ultimately be judged. We should look to Israel ….as it all started there……as the Pharisees and others who corrupted YHWH’s word, started there. And, we know from scripture that YHWH has judged Israel, but is going to bring Israel through the WRATH!

    That which is now corrupting this nation America came from overseas, and it is a global “mountain”. I use “mountain” in the same way that YHWH does in scripture. It also started before the foundations of our world. It manifested in Eden when Adam listened to the wrong “god”. It spread to Europe, Asia, Russia, Africa, and South America. and from Europe it spread to America, because the “mountain” saw a Work being done in this new nation…a Work that would keep many of YHWH’s children safe during the Wrath….to be returned to Zion after the Wrath is done.

    Even now the “mountain” is getting ready to crush what it hates, but will find out that those who YHWH wishes to preserve are beyond the “mountain’s” reach. When the “mountain” soon pushes the destruct button to bring in his global reign, those who have sought worldly goods and worldly ways will be betrayed by their “god”. Those who had the patience of the Saints will be tucked away, oil in their Lamps to reveal the PathWay, patiently waiting to go out and greet their BrideGroom in the middle of the Dark…..when the last trump sounds.

  180. Lightning Storm Aug 24th 2013

    Judgment is NOT PUNISHMENT from God.

    It is meant for CORRECTION……to CORRECT the ways; the thoughts; the worship etc etc etc back toward God.

    The Judgments of God will continue upon a person or nation until the SIN DEBT is paid according to God’s Law OR until Godly Repentance happens.

    There are only 2 WAYS of paying that SIN DEBT.
    By Repentance and Forgiveness by the Blood of Jesus or paying the full Judgment that God has proclaimed.

    Until a person or a nation comes INTO THE NEW COVENANT, they are still being Judged according to the OLD COVENANT.
    (this goes for those who are born again and REFUSE/RESIST to quit walking by their flesh and totally submit to the authority of the Holy Spirit. Their flesh is not submitting to the NEW COVENANT)

    ANOTHER reason we should know the Laws of God.
    So we understand what is going on around us and can intercede according to His purposes……instead of interceding according to OUR PURPOSES.

  181. 100% Zululander Aug 24th 2013

    Andrew I am still wondering why you want to expose the churches sin to the world. What good will it do.
    Surley God wants people to see their own sin so they turn to Him for forgiveness.
    Thats why He sent the Holy Spirit to convince men of sin because when He exposes it He has the immediate answer for them. It’s a spiritual subjective experience with the Holy Spirit. Nothing to do with the world.
    Use the world to expose sin!!!! Andrew you’ve lost it my brother. God sends His men, anointed by His Spirit with a clear message to repent, not the world.
    All the self righteous people who want to expose others sin why don’t you start with your own. What if someone who knew your secret sin & started to spread it about? You would call it gossip, not “bringing to light the hidden darkness” as some have said.
    I’m not defending anyone, I agree on the rottenness of the church but am ABSOLUTELY opposed to any exposure of rotten church activities to an unsaved world.
    Lord please don’t expose my, or my childrens or grandchildrens sin to the world, please send men to them with words from you to turn them around.

  182. After revisting this page, I will have to ask your purpose for bringing this to the attention of those receiving your emails?
    You’re acting as a promoter in some way.
    It’s not necessary for us to see this behaviour…and the fact that the majority of the “pastors” are African American is putting a general brush to congregations which look like these.
    I think you should take down this particular comment.
    Believers, have enough sin, repenting and proclaiming of the Good News to do, without having negative images presented to us by “those of like minds.”

  183. Andrew Aug 24th 2013

    So we “hide” it all and say nothing?

    If this were a “small” problem or only a ‘fringe’ group then that might be appropriate.

    But this is the biggest disaster (Prosperity doctrine) spreading in the worldwide church.

    I say, “Expose it and let it be condemned by all.”

    If the church will not clean up it’s own mess, God will use the world to do it.

    Blessings,

    Andrew Strom

  184. Lightning Storm Aug 24th 2013

    AMEN, Andrew Strom.

  185. Lightning Storm Aug 24th 2013

    People who say they are “christians” had better be prepared with a clean slate before God………it won’t be long before ALL THINGS THAT ARE HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS WILL BE EXPOSED BEFORE ALL MANKIND.

    God is Gracious enough to WARN YOU NOW.

    Get ready! The Judgment Seat of God is NOT PRIVATE!

  186. ValleyAnt Aug 25th 2013

    Fabakary, I agree 100% about God’s intention for making us materially rich or wealthy.

    Zululander and Phyllis, the Bible plainly says, “Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.” If Andrew is in the wrong, what happened to your spirit of gentleness? If you’ll note from the above passage, the spiritually mature (i.e. those who have any right to correct others or point out others’shortcomings) always use gentleness, but the immature cannot. If you aren’t careful, you can quickly find yourself the mouthpiece of the accuser of the brethren.

    Going on, Zululander and Phyllis, God’s Church has many individuals. The many parts of one’s body don’t fight and quarrel and disagree though they carry out different functions. But among Christians, we don’t wait to consider that we all have different functions before we draw swords and disagree with each other. Some are supposed to expose sin, and some are supposed to just pray. In the midst of all that, there is a time for everything when those who speak may be told to be quiet and those who pray told to speak. Isaiah said, “I have set watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall never hold their peace day or night. You who make mention of the LORD, do not keep silent.” God’s Army has different sections and areas of expertise: watchmen are set on the walls to see far ahead and warn; prophets are to “make mention of the Lord”; intercessors are to “not keep silent” in prayer until God’s will comes to pass. If one can rightly tell an intercessor not to pray and a prophet not to prophesy, then you can justify telling a watchman not to warn. Times of change are on us; God is going to transform the face of religion. If you aren’t willing to change with Him, you will be left behind.

  187. Marilyn Crow Aug 25th 2013

    I wonder what God has to say about man`s behaviour. Here are some examples.

    `He who sits in the heavens shall laugh.` (Ps.2: 4)
    (Man`s futile plans.)
    `I will vomit you out of My mouth.` (Rev. 3: 16)
    (Lukewarm so-called believers.)
    `Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.` (Luke 13: 27)
    (If there is no repentance.)

    And another thought on `Materialism.`

    Most people are in debt (to the world system) & the reason is (not always) but usually because we want, we desire material things & thus live beyond our means. The system `supports` us in our greed but we better take heed as `D` day is coming.

    Let`s seek Christ`s strength to overcome the enemy who desires us to be `slaves to the world`s economic system,` & let`s learn to value Christ`s riches of grace more & more.

    Marilyn.

  188. Marilyn Crow Aug 25th 2013

    Very good fabakary – `wealth to be used to help others,` & Lightning Storm – `the Judgment seat not private.`

  189. Hi all,

    Is it just me but I think the scriptures show us that we are our brothers keeper eg if you seeing a brother sinning go to him… etc.
    It seems the majority of christians fail to recognise that responsibilty confuseing the difference in obligations to a brother or sister in the faith with those who are not.
    There is a much higher requirement for the christian to his brothers and sisters in the faith eg if having gone to a brother and he carries on sinning we are expected to seperate from him.
    Whilst bad company can corrupt good habits Paul does not ask the same action to be taken towards non believeing worldly sinners regarding seperation or we would not be able to evangilize.
    Please take into account that true fellowship at the highestl evel can only be found in Christ as we have no fellowship with the world being now not of it (but still in it)
    Just a thought to ponder.

    God bless,

    Grant
    [email protected]

  190. It’s no wonder how Western Christianity has gotten to this point.
    The Messianic Teachings of Yehsua were hijacked by Rome and Christianity was born from the syncretization of pagan practices and religious leaders’ group interpretation of Scripture.
    After translation upon translation Jesus Christ with his symbols, holidays and images has become the iconic god of Western Christianity. Which contradicts the commands of Yahweh of image making; and flies in the face of His Levitical Feast Days.
    Yahweh our Elohim and His Son Yeshua the Machiach are eternal and never changing. So, it behooves me to see how the masses have fallen in line with the name change of Yahweh’s Son and accepted the doctrines and traditions of man.
    The Messiah Himself taught His disciples how “the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:23,24
    If one were to honestly and wholehearted examine Scripture from under the influence of man — one will come into truth that Jesus Christ and Yeshua HaMachiach are NOT the same persons/characters.
    Yeshua our Messiah/Machiach, is the same Messiah spoken of in Gen. 3:15. He is also the same throughout the Torah, and Prophectic Writings. He is the Messiah that the Ancient Hebrews and Israelites looked forward to and He is the same Messiah born out of the tribe of Judah, tortured, executed, resurrected and ascended back to our Abba, Yahweh our Elohim.
    I pray the Ruach HaKadosh (Set-apart Spirit) lead you to “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.” Rev.18:4.

  191. 100% Zululander Aug 25th 2013

    Valleyant I am surprised. You are in fact saying precisely what im saying. It’s the church that must correct the sinning church in love, not the world, (read all 3 of my posts).
    Andrew, you are angry with the church. Having experienced the blessings in the Church in Romania you are angry with the western church and with good reason. Many of us are, but that is no reason to suggest the world must judge the church & expose it.
    How will it judge the church? against what? themselves? thats ridiculous. They don’t have the bible against which to judge. In fact those preachers are doing exactly what the world is doing……making money. Maybe some of them will catch on & start doing it themselves.
    Andrew I suggest you deal with your righteous anger by expressing it in a constructive way.
    The Lord Jesus did it himself in the temple with the merchants.
    I repeat, supporting the world to expose the churches sin to the world is iniquitous.
    Andrew I challenge you to support your suggestion by principle from the NT

  192. I’m glad I don’t follow a denomination or a pastor. I follow Jesus Christ. I pray everyday that God will give me spiritual wisdom and insight to see what’s happening in the world. Too many preaches do not preach the uncompromised word of God. Preaches are afraid to call sin for what it is sin.

  193. Lightning Storm Aug 25th 2013

    Read the OLD TESTAMENT.

    God USED the enemies of Israel to bring HIS JUDGMENT UPON THEM.

    God has NOT CHANGED. God will not be mocked by a people who call themselves FOLLOWERS and PRACTICE IDOLATRY AND NOT HOLINESS.

  194. Claudia Aug 25th 2013

    It was not with “genetleness” that Yeshua cleaned the Temple, the Temple wherein He taught. He did approach those outside the faith with gentleness….however.

    Money changers (who have stepped beyond “trespass” into “perversion”) should be exposed…..but we should not dance with gladness in the isles as it is done. Our hearts should be sad…but a gentle feather cannot dislodge or clean the muck that clogs the pipes……it takes determination and force….just as Yeshua displayed at the Temple.

    I pray that the LIGHT explodes the darkness….and those who still want to destroy Yeshua’s people, are destroyed.

    It is not with gentleness that Yeshua returns! And…..it is mankinds fault….the mess that He returns to,…..and even also those who are His for not doing as He taught……ALL that He taught…..not just that which pleases us…..and is easiest to do.

  195. 100% Zululander Aug 25th 2013

    Do you really think the world exposing the excesses of the church is Gods judgement!! You got to be kidding.
    Read the bible to see what Gods judgement looks like. Right now the mercy grace of God prevails (& we all better be VERY grateful for it) & i’m shocked how christians are salivating to see Gods judgement.
    Judgement is the result of sin, not the exposing of it.
    Let the wheat & tares grow together.
    See yourselves in Gods light my friends, not in comparison to each other. Look into your own lives & take care of the plank.
    Rom2:1Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things.

  196. 100% Zululander,

    I don’t know if you have spent much time around Pentecostals from the Pentecostal denomination. If not you must realize that this group sees the judgement of God in most circumstances. While many came out of the legalism involving dress codes, different church rules, etc., they retain many of the views of this group.

    I’m not saying this is the case here but I agree with you that for some reason Christians are almost in a state of glee when they think God is judging someone.

    When God told Abraham he was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham went into intercession before the Lord. When God was going to judge the Israelites, Moses interceded for the people.

    When Jonah wanted judgement to fall on the people of Nineveh, God dealt with Jonahs attitude.

    What I am saying Zululander is that God is in control and sees all our attitudes. With what measure we mete to others it will be meted out to us. I see what your saying and we just have to let God be God.

    Let’s see maybe we should call down fire from heaven on these preachers. I wonder what Jesus would of told His followers in this situation?

    54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.

    GaryB

  197. Claudia Aug 25th 2013

    GaryB……wrote: “Christians are almost in a state of glee when they think God is judging someone.”

    Do you realize by the way you stated that you are making no exceptions and including ALL Christians. I am sure you did not mean it that way….but someone outside the faith would take that statement as applying to all Christians and run with it. Not a judgement that I would want to be stuck with coming out of my mouth.

    YHWH is in control….and yes, many times in the past He has postponed His end move, but…..we must not judge the future by the past. Also….a big GAME CHANGER was His Son being sacrificed on the cross. All your events you mentioned occurred before that Doorway was opened. That event was the PERIOD to our chances. There will be no more under mans rule.

    YHWH has been very clear about the end times and we must clean up our act. He is not like the permissive parents of our age who have ruined an entire generation of kids….YHWH is not going to wait much longer until all hope is lost.

    Do not judge YHWH by our nature. I am not happy at what is exposed, but in YHWH’s timing it will be exposed….even if most all is revealed as garbage, and only a very little comes through His fires refined and shown as true.

  198. Claudia Aug 25th 2013

    What kind of spirit are we, who read YHWH’s word and pass it on, as He stated it……which is that He is coming down with fire to destroy those whose heart beats for satan? We will be condemned if we don’t proclaim the entire word.

    We are not calling down YHWH’s judgement on anyone…..we do not have the authority to do that…..we are merely stating what He has said He is going to do one day, and that we need to be ready. If I was going to call fire down to destroy someone, it would rightly first hit me, for I am not capable of knowing YHWH’s Will, and it would be impertinent of me to assume I do know.

    One of the biggest sins in my opinion is the one that keeps hoping that the end days will never come and we can just keep going on the way we are. A very selfish attitude, that cares little for the suffering and darkness that is spreading and tainting everything it touches….not just humans….but all of YHWH’s creations here on earth.

  199. Claudia Aug 25th 2013

    With what measure we mete to others it will be meted out to us.

    Yep! We will all be accountable not for just our own sin, but for those sin committed by our brethren if we witness it and do not point that sin out, reveal it to them, so they can repent, should they so choose.

    If we allow them to go their merry way, without warning, we are accountable for all the damage they do to themselves, and to others.

    Unfortunately….most people choose popularity and acceptance over accountability and true love.

    The satanical media wants to smear Christianity and is willing to spend their money to do so. Should not true Christians spend their money to create presentations of Yeshua and His love for all, and presentations of satan and his false love which leads to ultimate death?

  200. Quote: Claudia wrote: Yep! We will all be accountable not for just our own sin, but for those sin committed by our brethren if we witness it and do not point that sin out, reveal it to them, so they can repent, should they so choose. quote……………

    Claudia,

    The problem is many talk up others sin and do not go to the people and point it out to them personally. Its easy to sit and talk about others sin, rather then spend time fasting and praying that God would lead them to repentance.

    Have any ministers went to these men and shared with them that they think this is not of the Lord to put this on tv?

    In fact you had a post here that mentioned judgement always being called down on America, and I have noticed it has since been erased.

    If I remember correctly was not someone attacking your ministry a good while back? I for one did not think they were giving you the benefit of the doubt on the situation. I would go back to get the statements but it probably has been erased as well. You know at least what its like to be falsely accused without someone knowing all the facts.

    I also I did not mean all Christians but I meant many different Christians enjoy calling down judgement on others. We should never sound like we want judgement to come on people no matter who they are.

    To be honest I think it would be awful for people one day to end up going to hell, even though I know its going to happen.

    GaryB

  201. Andrew Aug 25th 2013

    The video makes me feel “ill”. It does not make me feel “glee”.

    But if the Christians will not expose and deal with the church’s uncleanness, then expect God to allow this kind of thing more and more. He did the same with Israel.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  202. Lightning Storm Aug 25th 2013

    Zululander……Judgment is NOT PUNISHMENT. I said this before and if you do read the OT, you will see that it was meant for CORRECTION.

    I hear that EXCUSE for continuing in sin from many people…..that the GOD OF THE OT is DIFFERENT FROM THE GOD OF THE NT.

    Paul states that the Spirit of Grace is NOT GIVEN to us so that we may continue in the same sins as the people of the OT, but the Spirit of Grace was sent to EMPOWER US to be able to OVERCOME the sins to AVOID THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD.

    No JUDGMENTS OF GOD UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD SYSTEM is a lie from Satan.

    We should be GRATEFUL for God’s JUDGMENTS, for His JUDGMENTS are what keeps our evil natures from coming to their FULL FRUITION!

  203. Andrew,

    That’s the paradox we find with the body of Christ. Every church has become a localized autonomous group that is not subject to each other.

    Even though Christ is the Head of the Church everyone in each group has become separated from each other. I think with so much error running rampant in the church world it is only drawing each group farther away from each other.

    Any rate in my original statement I said, “This may not be the case here,” meaning that people may not be in glee that these men are headed for some type of judgement. But there are Christians out there who I have met that act like their excited that judgement is coming on others.

    Its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

    I hate seeing the body of Christ divided and torn apart by so many delusional doctrines, but maybe this is just a fulfillment of end time prophecies.

    Thanks for replying I know you cannot reply to every comment, but I am interested in what you think on these matters. Not many ministers out there take a strong stand on God’s Word these days.

    GaryB

  204. Hello Phyllis James,

    It sounds like you have fallen into the modern “Hebraic Roots” movement. I know some who are in that movement. Have to keep the Holy Days of Leviticus 23, ect.

    Sometimes the worst error is not what is taught, but rather, what is not taught. Jesus Christ is who should be exalted. With so much emphasis on the Messiah, you might want to remember the Messiah has a name – it is the Lord Jesus Christ. And even better than having to search the Old Testament for all the prophecies which prefigured the Messiah – We can read GOSPELS by man who directly knew Jesus Christ. It would be my recommendation to spend as much time looking at Gospels as you do the Old Testament prophecies of Messiah.

    14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    2 Cor 3:14-16 (NKJV)

  205. Hi all,

    There is a difference going privately to a brother for his personal sinning and those whos sin is the public preaching of a false doctrine.
    The latter requires public correction of the false doctrine to stop the spread of it.
    Jesus exposed the works of darkness in the light of the Gospel.
    He did not dwell on the works of darkness or necessarily speak of the foul things that were done but He did speak of the penalty or wages of sin in order that a man could choose to repent and turn from his sins.
    It really concerns me how “judge not ” is banded about as the ultimate form of love ,when in fact it can be the ultimate cloak of excuse to do nothing for fear of man and not Gods love at all.
    Gods love or desire is that none should perish but all should come to Him.
    That choice is availiable to all having heard the gospel of Jesus Christ which again is the believers responsibility to preach.
    Paul said he did not fear to give the whole counsell of God in any matter, how often do you think that counsell was not welcomed by the hearers.
    JESUS SAID TO THE WOMAN CAUGHT IN ADULTERY.
    WHERE ARE YOUR ACCUSERS? DID NO ONE CONDEMN YOU?
    NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU. GO YOUR WAY. FROM NOW ON,
    SIN NO MORE.
    Judge not people tend to grit the teeth when you say “FROM NOW ON, SIN NO MORE” it just doesnt fit their image of a “love and grace only god”.
    Man tends to fashion God into their own image, the golden calf of the 22nd century.

    Regards,

    Grant
    [email protected]

  206. 100% Zululander Aug 26th 2013

    The Lord Jesus dealt directly with the sinning “church” when on earth. He tells the church how to deal with sinning christians individually or in a church.
    At NO TIME does He use the world to expose the sinners/Church sin.
    Andrew show me one place in the bible where God uses others to expose their sin. He makes it clear He sent prophets to do that & they killed them.
    Your statement is more correct than you think Andrew, you were “ruined in Romania”….your patience for the sinning church was ruined.
    I have appreciated & agreed with you in all your past subjects but i thoroughly disagree with you on this issue. You haven’t given one specific biblical justification for you stance on the world exposing the churches sin. You’re wrong about Israel in the OT.
    We can go on & on about all the other stuff posted here but the question asked by Andrew is “should the world expose the churches sin” in that way (or any other way, it’s a matter of principle were discussing here). Not our idea of it. THAT is what needs to answered from the bible, not all the other issues being discussed on if, how, when & why & the level& consequences of their sin to be exposed.

  207. 100% Zululander Aug 26th 2013

    Correction. It’s the principle of the world exposing the churches sin to the world. Thats what the tv show will do, and remember by far the large proportion of the church watching it is just like the video to a larger or lesser degree. Think the results through folk, but don’t judge it by your supposed results, judge the proposal by the bible, what God does about sin

  208. Claudia Aug 26th 2013

    Yea, for Grant Sutton’s commonsense! A sin that has gone public must be dealt with publically in order to cleanse the “temple”. Yeshua did not go quietly and whisper into the moneychangers ears, He publically tossed them out….turned them out so to speak!

    I am going to guess that some ministers did go quietly to these ministers that are participating in the media event, if they knew beforehand. I imagine that they were already resolved to do it, and had their justifications well stoked because they are more than likely doing it for the money and the fame. Satan has set his hook.

    GaryB…..I know you did not mean ALL Christians….I was just pointing out that the way you wrote that statement was all inclusive. As to being falsely accused, I don’t even consider it because it is not about myself or where I stand on my journey,…it is all about where YHWH wants to take me…and teach me.

    As to my post that was removed….there was a sentence in there that should have been left out…and it was appropriate to remove it.

  209. ValleyAnt Aug 26th 2013

    Zululander, I’m glad we’re saying the same thing; my concern, really, is that you address leaders with respect and gentleness as that’s how you would want to be addressed. Jesus blasted the religious dead, Jesus’ apostles blasted them too, and Paul didn’t miss out on speaking harsh words at errant religious leaders (as there’s a time for everything); but if David, living under the old covenant, was able to show respect to an apostate leader who wanted him dead for no good reason, then we who have the Spirit and are under Grace should be more perfect and gracious in our ways and manners toward minsters who aren’t even at the level of Saul or the Pharisees. But there’s nothing wrong with gentle rebuke.

    Grant Sutton, agreed.

    Claudia, Jesus was only ever presented as angry when He dealt with the religious (because they are murderers of all that is good and of God but pretend to represent God) and certain effects of the Fall (e.g. the demonic and sickness). But the only good thing Jesus said of Himself… “I am gentle and humble in heart” (Mt. 11:29). He was “a Man of sorrow and acquainted with grief”, not a Man of anger causing others grief. We are, as someone posted from Ezekiel, to be “those who sigh and cry” and also to be angry at sin as God is daily; certainly, there’s a time for anger, but prudence and discretion are needed even when showing mercy.

    Goodnight all.

  210. Andrew Aug 26th 2013

    Over and over, the leaders of Israel refused to bring cleansing to that errant nation. So God allowed the world to do it – by force.

    The same is true of the “church” today.

    The church is in such a state. They will not listen to the prophets that are sent. Thus God will allow it to be exposed by the world.

    A totally biblical pattern. Yet very sad.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  211. ValleyAnt Aug 26th 2013

    Before bed, one more thing: Zululander, you ask questions which are good on the surface but are quickly resolved. You said that Jesus sent only prophets to the churches and never used the world. That argument is like the minute details of the laws that the Pharisees hovered over in Jesus’ days while they neglected “the weightier matters of the law”. The law said not to work on the Sabbath, but if one’s cattle found itself in straits on the Sabbath, the person could and would ‘work’ to release it from its problem. In that, they’d violated the Sabbath rule not to work… or had they?

    In Lk. 13, Jesus addresses this gray area after healing a woman in a synagogue on a Sabbath, drawing the ire of the religious synagogue ruler. Jesus responded by calling him a hypocrite and explaining that anyone whose ox fell in a ditch on a Sabbath would ‘work’ to lift it out and loose it from its distress as He’d loosed that woman from hers on the Sabbath. Back to your query, Zululander: Jesus sent only prophets to the churches and didn’t judge them through the world. Firstly, you forgot that the entire OT is one story after another of another ‘Church’ (Israel) constantly chastised, exposed in Singapore, and judged by the world (other nations). But if you say, “We are not under law but under Grace so that can’t happen to us”, then you should realize that the greater issue isn’t who God uses or allows to judge Christianity but how God feels about the judgment and the way it’s going on. The fact is more important than who is judging but why judgment is happening. When Jesus told the Jews that the truth would make them free, their first response was that they’d never been slaves to anyone. Remarkable; in the interest of defending some thing or belief, we can speak without thinking: not only had Israel been slaves to many nations but were under Rome at that precise moment. Don’t miss the forest for the trees; many, many things happen that God doesn’t want… Christianity being judged by the world is just one of them.

  212. Claudia Aug 26th 2013

    Zululander; ….Should we first attempt to define just what is Yeshua’s Church….before the question…”should the world expose the church’s sin”…..be rightly answered?

    I would suggest that Yeshua’s Church is without sin…..because they seek to return to YHWH through Yeshua, and to do His bidding alone, and not conform to man’s concepts of power and glory.

    I would be inclined to believe that what is being depicted on the media show is not His church, and never was. And because of this definition…..it is false…..and should be exposed as not representing the True Church…..just as the Council of Constantine did not come up with what could be considered the True Church.

    The Church of Yeshua is not in the hands or body of man, but in the Hands of YHWH alone. The sooner True Believers realize that… the cleaner the wicks of their lamps will burn.

    Are not prophets also humans…”others”? They were told to expose our sins. Are you saying that there are no prophets in these latter times, Zulander? I believe the latter time scriptures state that the sons and daughters will be able to hear from YHWH and speak and do His bidding. I got the impression from scripture that the numbers would be great.

    We are to be at peace with those around us….but that does not mean we turn our heads and tolerate a false peace when the foundations of our homes are being eaten away. YHWH’s peace, just as His truth and His love cannot be compared to how mankind defines these terms. There is no peace, truth, or love, when deception is allowed to rule.

    We are to be like our Teacher, and He openly revealed falsehoods.

    Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.
    Mat 10:26 “So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
    Mat 10:27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.

    Mat 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    Mat 10:38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
    John 14: 6-24 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.

    I see in these teachings of Yeshua that TRUTH is paramount, and that the LIGHT that we share with Him should always shine into the darkness of falsehoods.

    Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph

    Isaiah 26: 9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

    And, at His coming, all Truth will be revealed!

  213. Hi all,

    Producer of this show is a Dr Holly Carter and people report her as a born again .
    Check out info on the web….. so this isnt hollywood but some firm claiming a faith base?

    Regrds,

    Grant

  214. Lightning Storm Aug 26th 2013

    Perhaps, someone was instructed by the Holy Spirit to hand these TV preachers over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh…….just as Paul was instructed.

    Since the world system is the Kingdom of Darkness, then DELIVERING THEM TO the world system for the destruction of their FLESH sounds pretty clear to me.

    1Cr 5:5 NASB – I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    1Ti 1:19 NASB – keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.

    1Ti 1:20 NASB – Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

    When a person is living in a dimly lit room…..they believe that they have plenty of light, until they encounter a BRIGHTER LIGHT.
    But, when the COST of trading the dim light for the BRIGHTER LIGHT is TOO HIGH…….the person CHOOSES TO REMAIN IN THE DIMLY LIT ROOM.

  215. Hi Lightning Storm,

    I think the ” hyper grace , god is only love” advocates will have a hard time with your New Testament quotes. they just cant handle anything they determine to be judgemental, harsh and unloveing …. even if its in the Bible.
    Wonder when the hypergrace only addition of the Bible is going to be printed.
    It only needs one page with printing the rest can be blank…
    In the beginning was a god, make him into your own image on the following pages.

    The point is God disciplines those that He loves because He loves us and wants the highest for us…. He knows what is best for us.
    Repent is not a dirty word…. it crys out come and be made clean wretched sinners.

    God bless,

    Grant
    [email protected]

  216. Lightning Storm Aug 26th 2013

    Grant, I am acquainted with a lot of people who have that bible you are referring to!!

  217. Claudia,

    Just tossing out thoughts here on the whole subject. I went back and looked at some of the posts again and what was said. Thanks for the reply.

    I’m not supportive of this lavish Christian life style of fast cars, big houses, and all the fleshly sin that goes with it. I did think zululander had a few good points on it.

    But Grant and others are right, and make a better defense of the gospels and what they teach. Once a man becomes wealthy and thinks God is approving his actions he will generally listen to “no one”, but himself.

    The rich young ruler left sorrowful because he had riches and did not want to give them up. It says the cares of this life and the “deceitfulness of riches”.

    They can be very deceiving.

    Lord Bless every ones week,
    GaryB

  218. 100% Zululander Aug 26th 2013

    Valleyant, I never said…..But if you say, “We are not under law but under Grace so that can’t happen to us”
    I am opposed to the hypergrace thing.
    1. God exposing our sin through His anointed speakers (or whatever you want to call them) is one thing.
    2. The world exposing the churches sin is quite another.
    3. Exposing sin & judgement a two different things.
    4. God used the world to bring His prewarned judgement upon Israel.
    5. Saying He used the world to expose their sin is ridiculous. Expose a nations sin to whom for heavens sake??? he had them thrashed & trashed & carried away & it took at least a generation to come round to correct thinking.
    Dont mix the OT Israel with the church more than the bible allows.
    NT God sends His Holy Spirit to convince the world (and worldly sinners) of sin righteousness & judgement. has the Holy Spirit failed & now He has to use the world???

    Claudia, if these people by your definition are not of the church them why all this hassle over them. They are then part of the harvest needing laborers to go & reap & so need out prayers!!
    Some folk are adding a lot of their presumption to what I say.
    My point is ONE. god will not use the world to expose christians sin (we all aught to thank heavens He doesn’t) God is very clear in is Word on how to deal with sinning christians. The real trouble is that we feel to weak & helpless to do anything about it. We seem to think the world will do a better job.
    This proposed ridiculing of the church is blasphemous.
    Were going to give the world something to laugh at God about. It doesn’t matter if you think they aren’t Christians. the world thinks they are.
    I wonder how many hot shot speakers will be educated on how to make more money by it?

  219. Claudia Aug 26th 2013

    Zulander; YHWH owns the world, and He uses the world as it pleases Him. If He wants to use the media to hold up a mirror to those who falsely follow Him……so be it…..if He chooses to prevent that from happening……so be it. Tho He did not prevent it. YHWH is using satan also for YHWH’s purposes.

    All things are under YHWH’s Hand.

    No one who has a YHWH made heart will be deceived by this trash or attracted to it. As some have said, it will give opportunities for true witness. It will prevent many from entering through the wrong doors, because they will be turned off by what they see….and when the true Hand reaches out for them…..they will recognize it….because it will be a clean Hand. The good seed recognizes hypocricy in all it’s shades of grey…..even if it does not yet acknowledge the Hand that Sowed them.

    YHWH is in control……and “judgement” contains within it “exposure”……so if YHWH used the world to judge OT Israel, that same act included in it exposure of how Israel was off the track, derailed….so to say. It is all tied up together….you cannot separate it as you are trying to do.

    This exposure of what is pretending to be church, is all about the exposure of the false which thrives in the dark. Let the LIGHT shine on it! Trust YHWH that He is CORRECT.

    YHWH knows where His children/seed are…..He will find them.

    What those are doing who are producing and starring in the show is blasphemous. But that blasphemy is taking place all over the world by those who worship in such a fashion, or who have such an “idea” of what YHWH is all about.

    Blasphemy should be exposed, don’t you think? Many will look at what they are doing in their worship circle….and they may see that their garments are stained….and they may have a chance to wash them when it counts the most.

  220. 100% Zululander Aug 26th 2013

    To continue your strange logic can I give you
    Ps 24:1
    The earth is the Lords & all it’s fullness, the world & they who live in it….
    So why did the Lord Jesus die on the cross if it’s all His anyway…… same strange logic claudia

  221. Lightning Storm Aug 26th 2013

    Zululander….

    No “strange” logic at all.

    Go into any COURT, JAIL, PRISON of the land and you will see God EXPOSING THE SINS OF ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE…….even those who call themselves “christian”

    God does OWN ALL CREATION. But POSSESSION was GIVEN AWAY BY ADAM AND EVE.

    It is just like when someone STEALS your car. You still OWN the car, but you no longer have POSSESSION.

    When Jesus died on the cross He paid the LEGAL RANSOM required to have LEGAL POSSESSION of ALL Creation.

    We were given the LEGAL RIGHT to TAKE BACK WHAT BELONGS TO JESUS………we are the “mop up” crew.

  222. 100% Zululander Aug 26th 2013

    LS.
    Go into any COURT, JAIL, PRISON of the land and you will see God EXPOSING THE SINS OF ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE…….even those who call themselves “christian”

    Correct, for judgement & punishment what governments are there to do.
    Nothing like what is being proposed.
    Please think what you’re saying through in the light of the original question…..the world exposing the churches sin. Totally wrong.
    God can do what He likes & fortunately for us, He likes to do what He has written in His word, so we should do the same. Let Him by His Spirit reveal our sin to ourselves with the objective of receiving His grace to repent & overcome so we wont be judged in the end. If thats what you want for yourself then why not want it for others. Are you so much better than them that they must be exposed to the world by the world & not you???
    Be Blessed

  223. Lightning Storm Aug 26th 2013

    Zululander….

    The WORLD SYSTEM is the WORLD SYSTEM……you are nit picking now.

    So you are saying that God can use the WORLDLY COURT SYSTEM to expose the sins of believers and not any other part of the WORLD SYSTEM?

    The courts are part of the WORLD SYSTEM.
    The courts do NOT enforce the LAWS OF GOD from the OT and God’s prescribed JUDGMENTS.

  224. Lightning Storm Aug 26th 2013

    The world’s court system PUNISHES people…..it is NOTHING TO BE COMPARED TO GOD’S JUDGMENTS.

    God’s JUDGMENTS are meant for CORRECTION…..NOT punishment.

    To CORRECT the way in which mankind is worshiping, believing, living, and to TURN THEM BACK to the One True God.

  225. Lightning Storm Aug 26th 2013

    Excellent comment…..Claudia.

  226. Hi Zululander,

    You must have missed reading one of earlier posts.
    This tv show has been produced by Dr Holly Carter who they say is born again and that she purposes to make more faith based tv shows.
    Do a google search for more info and see for yourself.
    So this isnt hollywood or the world doing a mocking programme but someone promoteing this from a so called pro christian faith basis and they consider it a candid positive portrail of christianity and it a evangelistic tool.
    Just shows you how far people have gone from the real gospel message to think this is a positive image of real christianity.

    Regards,

    Grant

  227. Claudia Aug 26th 2013

    Zulander…..I am so confused as to how you reason. You wrote:
    “To continue your strange logic can I give you Ps 24:1=’The earth is the Lords & all it’s fullness, the world & they who live in it….’ So why did the Lord Jesus die on the cross if it’s all His anyway…… same strange logic claudia”
    —————————————–

    Zulander….it is not about His possessions!!!!! YHWH owns everything….but some of those things are under a death sentence because of rebellion against the YHWH natural order of things….the order that sustains and nourishes to everlasting LIFE. Yeshua sacrificed His earthly life to balance the equation that required DEATH….which was unbalanced when satan rebelled and got other creations to believe His lies. All those who go through YESHUA’s DOOR are no longer under that equation whose sum is DEATH. Yeshua factored it back to before the rebellion, for those who chose Him as their Master.

    Jesus’s Glorious Task is NOT ABOUT POSSESSIONS….it is ABOUT THE LOVE AND COMPASSION that YHWH has for his lost children.

    Jesus did not die on the cross for His gain…..but for our gain!!!!

  228. Claudia Aug 26th 2013

    I would go so far as to say that YHWH through His Right Hand, Yeshua, created this world for His children to live upon and flourish and grow into maturity. Tho the children lived upon the world…HE still owned it….as HE owns all things.

    The disobedient children carelessly threw the title to the earth away, (and it was quickly snapped up by satan) AND they also at the same time threw their right to everlasting life away…..because everlasting life is only sustained through harmony/obedience with YHWH’s Will.

    Yeshua, Jesus, performed His Glorious Task on the Cross in order that we might have a means for restoration to everlasting life. That was the primary reason. That we will also receive back title to earth when this particular PLAN is all wrapped up….is a secondary issue. But….right now….satan is leasing it out, but YHWH still owns the structure….and always will….and one day His Children will be HIS inheritors, those who have accepted His Will through all consuming faith in Yeshua.

    The children of disobedience are running rampant upon the earth now…..but not for much longer…..the appointed time is coming.

  229. 100% Zululander Aug 27th 2013

    Grant if that is the case then wonderful, I support it 100%.
    Unfortunately this forum subject supported the world exposing the churches sin which is biblically untenable.
    Folk quickly get onto all sorts of doctrine which evade the subject. The govt is now drawn into it. govt’s responsibilities are clear in the bible.
    I mentioned Ps24 purely as an example of strange logic & now I get a dissertation on adam…..
    Having pastored a wonderful church for years & still teaching in church I do have a feint understanding of it.
    Grant, thanks that’s great news. Let the church expose the sin of those who do such things. I hope it’s done in a Godly manner that brings repentance averting their judgement, (which is final, no turning back like those sent to jail) & much glory to God

  230. Hi Zululander,

    I think you have missed my point ….read this carefully.
    The makers claim to be christian and that the series is promoteing christianity.
    I dont know how more clearly I can state it.
    Exposeing sin it not the producers purpose… they think this is promoteing real christianity and will reach people.
    Its promoteing false teaching….. remember doctrine is not only based on what Jesus said but what He did also …His life.
    Theology calls this Christology….. the life and works of Jesus as our example outworked.
    Our lives and testimony should be measured against Jesus Christ.
    The original title post by Andrew does not mention the world exposeing the Church at all you have taken it that way, one can just as easily say this is the church promoteing the world in it.
    This trailer is a disgraceful display of carnal christianity that is leavening the lump of Western christian culture.
    One of the primary reasons sin abounds is that christians arent the voice of reason with the Gospel any more.
    This is a proggramme promoteing a false gospel message and therefore must be addressed… the problem is I believe that people think actually that this is actually christian… time to repent.
    Whats really sad is that most of the world thinks that this is an accurate example of an American preachers because we see these antics hppening and being promoted everywhere…. dont you find that really offensive.

    Regards,
    Grant

  231. Hi all,

    Please forgive my spelling errors etc as I am useing a tablet an on the move when writting etc

    Regards ,
    Grant

  232. ValleyAnt Aug 27th 2013

    Zululander, I see what you’re saying now, distinguishing between judging and exposing. It can turn into semantics, but there is a difference as you’ve noted. No, God doesn’t approve the world exposing the sins of Christians. However, I believe that sometimes, rules change a bit when circumstances call for them. E.g. when Jesus at 12 knowingly let His parents leave for home while He remained in the temple to teach older men, it wasn’t considered disobedience to his parents though in 99.999% of cases, the child would be guilty of disobedience; David are the showbread and Jesus picked wheat on a Sabbath, both against God’s own law, but both were justified; the Bible says not to rebuke an elder, but Jesus and the apostles are recorded doing that several times; in the OT, after God specified that marriage is between only one man and one woman, He still to this day, in His Grace, allows some men to have more than one wife without condemning them (this is plain outstanding, a real fly in some ointments); etc. What I’m saying here is a riddle: “Though God doesn’t use the world to expose Christians, He might” 😉 This is how God works–never really tied down to any rules, not even His. When He started the first Church, He laid foundations, but then He let others build on those foundations.

    (As Paul said, “But let each one take heed how he builds, for no other foundation can be laid than that already laid which is Jesus Christ.” That says that though Jesus allows each to build on the foundation, they should still build according to the foundation/pattern/blueprint though they don’t have to. The fire will however prove if they built how Jesus wanted them to or not.)

    Some things are black and white; some things aren’t. Jude said to save people the right way by properly making distinctions with each instance. In the same way, we all need to wait on God to distinguish for us which ‘rules/principles’ are black and white (i.e. either this way or the opposite way), which are a rainbow of colors, which are mostly gray, and which have colors that are still undiscovered (i.e. the things that are not yet made known to us by newly proceeding revelation). Another aspect of this is that those being judged can be considered non-Christians, therefore, it doesn’t apply that the world is exposing Christian since… but then that would be semantics. But lastly, the producers of L.A. Preachers are ‘Christian’, so it’s really Christians exposing Christian. (Also, in my last post, I meant to say that Israel was exposed in sin, not exposed in Singapore. Lol. My phone’s auto-correct.)

  233. Hi Valleyant,

    As for the topic I think people get emotional because they try to protect their reputation or the churchs.
    The bible tells us to be of no reputation.
    Not a good one or a bad one… but of no reputation
    Why…….
    Because reputation brings pride.
    Its takes the focus away from Jesus onto a man.
    Appearances can be decieveing…. vanity can wear the cloak of humility.
    Now dont get me wrong we should be of good report amongst the heathen in this respect …for being like Jesus.
    But the heathen world does not determine what is good …only God is good.

    Regards,

    Grant

  234. Claudia Aug 27th 2013

    The bottomline is that if this group who is promoting their “church” in the public world media is of the True Church….than they would submit to the True Church and the Holy Spirit’s guidance and reconsider or change their ways….and come out of the world.

    If it is a false “church” than they will be following the world and the world’s way of thinking, and YHWH will use the world to expose them….or said in another way: By being part of the world one is, by their very actions exposed as not being a part of YHWH. Also, all True Believers should distance themselves from being identified with this false betrayal of YHWH’s Way….and they should speak up publically and condemn that which is in error.

    Grant Sutton….thank you for bringing up the teaching regarding reputation. Nifty!

    ValleyAnt…well said, and in another way…as YHWH would say…”I AM WHO I AM.”

  235. Claudia Aug 27th 2013

    In the Subject text comments was this sentence:

    “….. let America see the kind of preachers she is producing these days!”

    I would suggest that these type of preachers are spawned by the large cities world wide….worldly dependent, based on the economic systems of the world,…proud and blinded by what the world has offered. One more reason that YHWH has always hated man gathering together into large cities and the areas surrounding those cities. It is the false wealth, the coin wealth that spawns these false preachers and churches. They preach the blessings of wealth to cover and justify the lifestyle they envy and seek and have found. Instead of conforming to YHWH’s Way….they use Him to justify their pursuits and cover their sins….not even recognizing their state.

    I live in an area that is made up of very small towns, some distance apart within the forests and farm lands inbetween. Little local churches containing people who know how to produce their own foods and get their hands dirty with soil. I dropped by a little church the other week and heard a young man preaching who was still also attending a small outreach university and getting ready to go on a mission to China. I liked what i saw in this little church. The older pastor shared the pulpit with him. Loving people, modest, God fearing, happy to be gathering to sing praises to YHWH, and teach His word, praying for others, and checking to see who needs help. No pride or sanctimonious attitudes….calm and happy singing…..no drum beats or bounding around. Just a piano and voices singing praises to Him. YHWH’s peace was there.

  236. Claudia Aug 27th 2013

    Mark 12: 13-14=And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. And when they were come, they say unto him, MASTER, WE KNOW THAT THOU ART TRUE, AND CAREST FOR NO MAN: FOR THOU REGARDEST NOT THE PERSON OF MEN, BUT TEACHEST THE WAY OF GOD IN TRUTH: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

    We are to be like our Master, and the above scripture clearly (to me) shows the nature of Yeshua, and the Pharisees knew that and started their communication proclaiming that nature. Our Master’s nature was to teach, say the truth, not regarding the feelings or ramifications from those hearing the truth. He did not pussy foot around the truth, but proclaimed it boldly.

    Yeshua answered them with the famous scripture: “And Jesus answering said unto them, RENDER TO CAESAR THE THINGS THAT ARE CAESAR’S, AND TO GOD THE THINGS THAT ARE GOD’S.”

    A clear delineation between things of the world and things of YHWH,….. between the world’s authority and YHWH’s. It is a perversion to try to mix the two into one truth.

  237. 100% Zululander Aug 27th 2013

    Grant & valleyant were practically saying much the same thing.
    I stand firm on the principle of the exposing/convincing of sin as I have stated. This whole rotten thing is going to do the church NO GOOD.
    One last thing. Of all the stuff Andrew has placed in the past, even the very negative stuff, I have not sensed his anger at a situation as this one. I believe (my opinion only) that he has spoken in anger & a year down the line if he reads it he will not be happy with it. Romania put him on a high & coming back to this rotten stuff in the church has made him angry & he is not dealing with it in the best way.
    Andrew…Be Blessed my brother :)

  238. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I truly appreciate your
    efforts and I am waiting for your further write ups thank you once again.

  239. Andrew Aug 27th 2013

    Zululander – you are reading way too much into this.

    I am no more “angry” at this than the other stuff that has been exposed on this site. My feelings have not changed at all.

    And Romania had no bearing at all on this topic.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  240. ValleyAnt Aug 28th 2013

    Grant, you said it: “Only God is good”! Amen.

    Yes, Grant, we are to be Christ to the world which is where it counts to be perfect (BLAMELESS) as God is perfect. But thank God that His Word has integrity: Paul, speaking firstly of himself and his apostolic fellow ministers, said that no soul is worthy to represent Christ to others (since the distance between our imperfections and His perfection is so vast). He spelled out the sum of what being Christ to the world looks like in 2Cor. 2: “We are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?” Christ in us is able to influence people to either choose Life or choose death but makes no fence-riders just like the influence of the same Christ on earth (which is what makes the world hate Christ: He brings them to a decision–Life or death). Who is sufficient (worthy, able) to represent Christ to others. No one is “sufficient for these things”, therefore, humility is not an option among Christians and especially ministers.

    True, Claudia. He does what He pleases. (I like how He did it with the epileptic boy: He Himself said a demon cast out can rightfully move back in, and with greater oppression, if the space it vacated is still empty. But when He cast out this particular spirit in Mk. 9, He decreed to it, “I command you, come out of him, and enter him no more!” The spirit was banned from ever returning to the boy even if a space remained. I believe Jesus ‘made this exception’ for the sake of the suffering boy and his grieving father.)

    Zululander, I guess it depends on what ‘good’ is. I believe that satan has all kinds of evil intentions behind L.A. Preachers (some being that Christians will be mocked and persecuted and further divided) but that God will use it to bring about just what He wants it to (some of that being more sincerity, Love, and unity among some Christians partly through persecution).

    Goodnight everyone.

  241. Do these guys do a sermon on how to get a gold rush through the offering plate?

  242. 100% Zululander Aug 28th 2013

    Right on Valleyant. God always brings good out of bad, but it doesn’t mean we rejoice over the bad. ie we don’t sin so grace may abound
    I predict the showing will do much like you say.
    Some will agree with the preachers & join it, others in the church will get more angry, the world will laugh at the churches antics & be more opposed to it & others will stand on the side & cheer it on with “bring it on,,,,show time” etc
    Lastly, the makers & the actors will make a fortune.

    and valleyant…good morning, i’m just getting up.
    Be Blessed

  243. Hi Zululander,

    I think the church (loosely said) trying to stop something like this going to air is what will do more harm than good.
    The general public will think we are just trying to cover up sin for reputations sake yet again.
    Fake christianity is best exposed by the example of real christianity.
    Speaking up against the false doctrine being spewed out of the mouths of false teachers and speaking the Truth is a worthy task very few christians seem to commend.
    I comment from first hand experience as one who does speak out .
    Andrew who I know personally and for over twenty years is somebody who will speak out… and I believe has shown this video for that reason not anger .

    A saying worth repeating is…
    ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO STAND BY AND DO NOTHING.

    Righteous anger is by the way a attribute of God, with it many a money changers table can and will be overturned.

    Regards ,
    Grant

  244. Lightning Storm Aug 28th 2013

    Amen Grant.

    Let there be Light….LORD…..Let Your Light INCREASE in ALL the world and UNCOVER ALL the hidden things in the darkness!

    EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE the Lies and REMOVE the masks that EVIL WEARS!

    Bring the kingdom of darkness to an END!

  245. 100% Zululander Aug 28th 2013

    If the church stands up against this thing, they will have to clearly & very lucidly have to articulate why they are against it, & in that the reasons will be clear, describing the churches reasons for their stand against this kind of blasphemy.
    Would that not have an impact on the world? Will it not, in that, also give opportunity for the church to say not just what is wrong in what the preachers are saying, but also what the truth is regarding the Good new of Christ.
    I think it would take wise folk to lead & confront it in a very public way that brings honor to God. That means not with placards & noisy abusive marches.(sorry, im used to the SA kind of marches) Even using secular media without insults, in a dignified way.
    This could be a wonderful opportunity if done with wisdom winning the “opposition” & not “beating them up”.
    I may be wrong, but it’s worth a thought.
    By the time it gets to SA in who knows how many years time, be sure the church won’t sit back it will be done in a dignified christian way that will bring results. Prayer being the central & major (by far) focus of the opposition.
    Americans be aware….read what Grant said
    ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO STAND BY AND DO NOTHING.
    Bless you all

  246. alphfaith Aug 28th 2013

    What a fragile little christianity we must think we have, that every time someone does something (as Christians) that we find ungodly and offensive we panic. Soon the desperate religious Christians will take up the same mantra as the radical muslims – say, do, believe and be what we say the Bible says you should say, do or believe or face retaliation. Religion always wants to kill or silence those who do not agree with it. Shall we pray fire down from heaven?
    Beloved, do you think God has fallen asleep, is an aged old man who has lost His grip on the Church and world?
    Let the tares alone lest you uproot the wheat with it. The big voices right now will be the little one’s in short order. Stay focused on intimacy with Jesus and walk in obedience to His unction and He will gloriously triumph in and through you.
    Be encouraged, everything is going to work out wonderfully!

    grace and peace

    [email protected]

  247. Hi Alphfaith,

    If we were walking in obedience then the message of the Gospel would be being preached.
    Intimacy with Jesus is similar in effect to geniune intimacy found in a wholesome loveing relationship…… you speak well of the one you love.
    Eventually you have to leave the honeymoon chamber to raise the family founded from that love.
    Initimacy is just one expression of Gods unfailing love.
    LOVE IS KNOWN BY THE ACTION IT PROMPTS.
    Without action how is it known.

    Regards,

    Grant

  248. 100% Zululander Aug 29th 2013

    Thats right alphfaith. Lets dust off our hands of this messy business & just build our relationship with God. God will take care of His business, we must just sit back & watch. Thats fine for you, but many will see this as an opportunity & God will thru them by His grace bring good.
    The Kingdom of God suffers violence & the violent take it by force.
    This will take a lot of what it seems you don’t have a stomach for.
    Alphfaith you may sound very spiritual, but for God to bring out good, some are going to get their “hands dirty” to do it. Ask any spiritual worker that

  249. Hi Lightning Storm,

    Keep up the good fight of faith.
    Time to top up the oil , trim the lamps wick and let the light shine rather than hide it behind a bush.

    God bless.

    Grant

  250. ValleyAnt Aug 29th 2013

    Amen where amen is fitting. I’m pretty sure I don’t have any more words than these tonight. God bless all who fellowship with Him and with each other. Amen.

  251. 1 Timothy 6:5: “People of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.”