“OUR DEAR AMERICA” Pt 2 – Wolfgang and Mercy Simson

This follow‐up letter is not only for America, but also to all the Western European nations that find themselves in a similar political and economic situation like the US… The “Our Dear America” message was not sent out as a pacifying, soothing message for all those that wanted Romney to win and Obama to lose. This message is not meant to calm down your troubled spirit, so you can now take a deep breath and think: “God has mysterious ways”! Rather it is a wake‐up call to shake those in America that call themselves after Christ from a toxic slumber, and encourage them to seek their true King, and to submit to his rule. Would you therefore please allow us take this to a next level and try to be as clear and concise as we can?…

First, our motive. We love the US. My (Indian) wife and I (German/
Hungarian/Jewish roots) have been given a passion and burden for
the US that we can´t really explain. For the past 21 years, we have
been praying for your nation and we continue to do so. We bought
your flag and have it in our office to remind us to ask God for
supernatural love for America. And sometimes, love makes you
tell it as it is, without diplomatic language and plan, without
scheming for a certain angle, plain – just like that. We know that
this can make us a target for undue praise, but also for mis-
understanding, anger and criticism – by now, we have been called
all sorts of untrue things, good and bad – but we are ready to
remain vulnerable.

Secondly, we have cogent reasons to believe that there is a very
real hope for a historic, mind-blowing turnaround and a possible
re-invention of America – IF Jesus would be accepted as the ruling
King of his people with the same or more passionate fervor that
people went about electing a new president and spending their
hope and money on it. What happened during the election time
now is that we felt God said, (in our paraphrase) They are missing
it again; they are again looking for another Saul to be King, not
me; yet another human Messiah, a political solution for a spiritual
problem. The involvement in a process to elect yet another “most
powerful man of the most powerful nation in the world” can lead
to a toxic drunkenness of what the Bible calls – The Flesh: `we-
can-do-it´ power. It is a symptom of the very same spirit that had
people build the Tower of Babylon.

If that continues, it will all come to nothing and yes, all will go
down in flames, Christian churches, denominations, ministries,
foundations and businesses included, with those in leadership
wringing their hands in complete, perplexed despair – unless:
Those who claim the name of Jesus would finally emigrate out of
a gigantic Babylon (Mammon-driven) Captivity and repatriate into
the Kingdom, seen as the domain of God´s uncontested rule.
Repatriation means we emigrate, decidedly move out of one
country into another country, apply for citizenship and diligently
keep the laws and regulations of that country out of passionate,
obedient love for its King. Then we would no longer be Americans
first and Christians second, but Kingdom Citizens who happen
to be pilgrims temporarily living in America – or any other nation.
That is the right order, anything else is a deception.

Does God judge or blesses us because of our Government? You
don´t expect sheep to behave like goats. And you don´t expect
pagans to behave like saints. God knows that even better.
Therefore, all nations (political entities) are under Gods general
merciful blessing, seen in the fact that he has not yet wiped us
all out (Psalm 9:17; Isa 8:9; 40:17 etc). But all nations are not
only under his permissive blessing for a shrinking time window
of grace, but also under Gods rightful judgment. One of the puppets
of God is Satan, to whom God has given a limited but terrible
allotment: “The whole world is under the control of the evil one”
(1 John 5:19).

A dramatic event is narrated in the Bible that is so sobering that
it might heal anyone of all false nationalism or even patriotism. It
is Jesus and Lucifer standing on a mountain (Luke 4:5), and Lucifer
says, in the face of Jesus: All these Kingdoms and their splendor
have been given to me – and I give them to whom I want. This is
why, with very few amazing exceptions, power, money and
splendor seems to be always bestowed on the wrong people.
People whom Lucifer likes, and he definitely always likes the wrong
ones. This is why nations – with one exception -the Kingdom of
God (Hebrews 12:28) – are all very shakable and fragile. In the
coming days, they will all start to face more and more violent and
unsolvable problems (Matthew 24) within themselves, through
internal strife. And by flexing their muscles like teenagers on too
much testosterone, this will lead to more rumors of war, nation at
the throat of other nations. We should expect blind nations that
they would try to blame someone else for its problems. And what
is easier than to blame the others in general, and the neighbor in
particular? There is a Kingdom solution to this, but it will simply
not fit into such a short letter.

Our point is this: all nations are under Gods rightful judgment,
because all of them have long ago removed themselves from under
his rule – Israel, Germany, Australia, Sweden and the USA
included. The romantic and sugarcoated myth of a Christian nation
is just that – a myth (A helpful book here is Gregory Boyd: The
Myth of a Christian Nation). Sin is first and foremost a disposition,
not the individual acts that result from our disposition. All have
sinned – nation-states included. Whether they sin a lot or sin a
little, sin they do all the same.

The really big issue, the one we can and should actually do
something about, is that God is looking at the level of holiness of
his saints in regards to their alignment to the constitution of the
Kingdom. Remember – judgment starts at the house of God. That
is where the crux is. And may we be blunt? We have done empirical
research and statistics all our life. If we would rate the corporate
behavior of the collective body of Christians in our Western nations
against the normative decrees and commands of the King, we
would be at a catastrophic obedience level of around a 2-5%, out
of 100. The Body of Christ in countries like India would be more
at a level of 20%; China, the same. My American friend Curtis
Sergeant who worked in China, used to describe many Chinese
followers of Christ with these three attributes: quick, costly
obedience. We in the West replaced those attributes with slow,
cheap arguments. This is just one of the main reasons for God to
bless his people there – rather than us in the cultural West.
Unless we change, this will not change.

The real pink elephant in the room, the problem so big that hardly
anyone can or wants to see it, is this: most Christians are not in
the Kingdom. They may have knocked at the door, but never
entered in. Or they may have entered, said a quick prayer, raised
a hand, but quickly walked out of the Kingdom again, unable or
unwilling to leave the ways of the world and submit themselves to
the King. It really breaks our heart to say this, but we really mean
it: if Jesus does not evidently rule our lives, he is not our King.

For us, as your distant lovers and foreigners who come in and go
out of the US, one thing hits us in the face like a sledgehammer
each time we pass emigration. It is the screaming testimony of
the lives of most Christians that we have met in the US, who live
an ignorant, shameless, or even violent disobedience, in regards
to almost all royal commands of Jesus the King. They are
ignorantly or even deliberately trespassing, with their heads kept
high, especially in the key areas of sex, money, power and church.
Yes, we know a few precious exceptions, but it seems to be more
like a modern day group of 7000 who have not bowed their knees
to Baal. Christian people, in the four areas mentioned above,
simply do whatever they want, if they want, when they want, with
whom they want, where they want, thinking this is OK because
everybody does it.

In today´s America, it is just like in those days when Israel had
no king, and everyone did as he pleased. This is why most (not
all) church-going, praying, singing, tithing, book-writing, book-
buying, conference-addicted, small-group and Bible-study attending
Christians with or without a fish sticker on their car are, in fact,
illegal aliens, having crept a few meters over the border of the
Kingdom without yet being found out that they actually don´t
belong here (Matthew 22). They actually are in a spiritual no-man´s
land, people not at home in the Kingdom, and not at home in the
world; they have become people with no legal authority, power nor
significance in the Kingdom – and the world ignores them anyway.
Many of you secretly see and admit this powerlessness, which
screams in our faces: divine power cut! Even after (because?) all
those years of bible studies, songs, retreats, programs, prayers,
laying on of hands, prophesying this and decreeing that, driving
out that spirit and driving in another, many don´t even have the
power to overcome the most basic carnal addictions (lust, porn,
work, greed, fear, fun, gossiping, eating, dating, shopping, touring),
and compulsions (buying, selling, facebooking- voicing your opinion
without being asked, writing endlessly, twittering, preaching, giving
and reading “prophetic” words, chasing after what is new), just like
the folks in Apostle Paul´s Athens (Acts 17:21).

Such a life has not even arrived at Square One of the Kingdom –
the denial of self (Luke 14:33), and therefore does not have the
power to change the life of our own teenagers, let alone our
neighbors, let alone our city, county or country. From the per-
spective of Jesus and his Kingdom, this describes the life of
rebels; nice rebels, maybe, but rebels all the more. Religious
versions of any other US-citizen, pursuing as their top priority
anything but the Kingdom: money, toys, happiness, life, fun,
success, selfish significance of even the religious significance
like some of those who export a dysfunctional cultural religion
that has completely failed to disciple its own home base, and
calling it missions.

The core symptom of an illegal alien from a Kingdom perspective
is this: It is all about me. The center of this world is me, my opinion,
my church, my ministry, my book, my, my, my. But you are not
in the Kingdom if you can´t say: Your Kingdom come – my kingdom
go! If you have not kicked your ego out of the driver seat of your
life, then you run your life, not God. So don´t fool yourself and your
family. And if you are pledged – signed over – to this group, that
entity, the other purpose, then you have sold yourself away to
something else than God and his Kingdom. And your heart is
divided and torn. And that is idolatry. You serve two Gods; God
and Mammon; God and country; God and the NFL. That, however,
is no longer a life that Jesus describes like this: Make the Kingdom
and life according to its constitution your first priority (Matthew 6:33
in its proper translation). And that is why “everything else” that
Jesus talks about in this foundational Kingdom decree is not given
to many at all.

But it is not only self-centeredness that keeps us from understanding
or entering the Kingdom, it is also the phenomenal delusion that
we think far bigger and in unreasonable bias and favor of ourselves
than what we really are. Statistics tell us that most Americans, if
asked if they are “born again”, would say yes, even if they don´t
even know what that means. Similarly, if Christians hear the word
Kingdom, many automatically respond: Kingdom? Oh yes, absolutely,
sure thing, aren´t we all Kingdom people, somehow automatically
when we prayed “the sinners prayer” or when we got baptized?
Many truly believe that therefore all they do is Kingdom; Kingdom
business, Kingdom worship, Kingdom church, Kingdom conferences.
This is a huge deception. It is therefore a very healthy start for all
of us to take time out and ask ourselves first, and God very seriously,
am I actually a legal citizen in the Kingdom? Jesus saved me by
his grace. But, do I keep his commandments?

Our experience in the US has been that, with a very few exceptions,
the vast majority of Christians all say “Lord, Lord” – but simply and
doggedly do not do what Jesus says, being disobedient to the
core, unconstitutional and Kingdom-law-breaking (Matthew 7:21-23).
The King is utterly displeased with this, and he will not bless such
a disposition. This “lack of blessing”, of Kingdom authority is
evident in the problem-driven lives many Christians are leading.
They have become a product of their environment – and their
environment is no longer a product of them…

-Wolfgang and Mercy Simson
[email protected]
PO Box 1248, 79397 Kandern, Germany

Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on November 13th, 2012 at 9:26 pm.

264 comments

264 Replies

  1. Andrew Nov 13th 2012

    I found this more Hard-hitting than the first!

    Your comments?

  2. Aslan50mac Nov 13th 2012

    Thank you for posting this. It certainly confirms what the Lord has been showing me since the election. A serious level of repentance is needed . I needed to repent and as I did the Lord showed me some of the very truths in your article. I’ll be sharing it with many people that I know.

  3. The problem is that a lot of the people that need to read this may not.

  4. Andrew, you have said it as it is. America and all the Western nations will not change, therefore the many prophesied judgement/punishment by fire will come upon the earth. We are told in Isaiah 21:2 that Elam/Media, that is: Iran, will attack Israel, triggering the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, clearly described in Isaiah 30:26 as a sunstrike – coronal mass ejection.
    This will clear and cleanse all of the holy Land, but also affect the world and will enable the establishment of the One World Govt.
    Please look at http://www.logostelos.info for more Bible prophesy details.

  5. Please understand that it was not Christians who voted for Obama but the deceived atheists, gays, feminists, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, name-only Christians who, by and large, voted for Obama. America is no longer a Christian nation like it was.

  6. I strongly agree with most of this article. I grew up in and around the church in America…leading worship, leading bible studies, going on mission trips. But many years ago as a young adult I found myself haunted for several months of sleepless nights with Jesus words quoted above ‘many will say Lord, Lord.’ I praise God that the fear of the Lord came on me and brought me to true repentance. It was only then that I began to experience real joy in the Lord and got on the road of ridding myself of the flesh. I’m terrified now to look at churches in the west because according to the tests of salvation in 1st John, the fruit’s saying there aren’t many people who could assure themselves that they’ve been born again. I’m praying and sharing as the Lord leads. May the Fear of the Lord fall on us and leads us to salvation and freedom!

  7. Claire Nov 13th 2012

    Phew! Strong words but true. How do we leave materialism behind and go forward for the Kingdom without thought for personal well being in the future? Lord please help me to be a true child of the Kingdom, hearing Your voice and living in obedience to it. I don’t want to live for myself but for You for You are worthy, I am so unworthy.

  8. So many people play the part of the enemy in trashing God’s people! I hate it! I think God hates it! These are His people!!. When did He start peeking under the covers of Grace and start looking at our sins??

    I am NOT excusing what might be seen under there but He isn’t waiting for us to straighten up! He has a people who have and are faithful and there are a LOT of us! Do we think He can’t and won’t come until everybody looks good???

    I totally believe there are more of us than there are of them. And I also believe that Satan is the accuser of the brethren and is the only one looking at “all the sins of the people of God”.

    When do we start believing that God is fully capable of fulfilling His Own Plan and doesn’t need anyone pointing out the sins of the Church!!!!!!!

    If we still love pointing the finger, will we be ready when He does come??

  9. Andrew Nov 13th 2012

    Kade, my friend, if you think God doesn’t care that believers don’t obey hardly any of Christ’s commandments, then sadly you are deeply deceived. Sorry.

    Please read the parables of Jesus again. Start in Matt 25 or Matt 7.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  10. Thank you, Wolfgang and Mercy Simson, for your trumpeting call to America. Thank you for your vulnerability in accepting that you might be hated because you tell us what we are doing is wrong. Thank you for LOVING Americans enough to be honest about what you see and for being willing to deliver a Word of God to help move us toward repentance (hopefully). May God’s grace move upon our land, especially His Church, to bring us to our knees; humbled before Him, that we may be healed. Let those who have ears to hear your heartcry, hear and respond.
    God strengthen and protect you continually, I pray.

  11. Barnabas Nov 13th 2012

    If I lived in the US I would have voted for Obama. The comments above IMO are too many words. The bible talks of being still and knowing God, slower than slow. Hearts of compassion, loving enemies, protecting orphans and widows. Do not be quick to judge by mere appearance but make righteous judgements. Walk humbly and justly, simply and freely. Too many words distract from the simplicity of loving our neighbours as ourselves. Worship the Father through the Son by the Holy Spirit not stumbling on the 2nd commandment by being idolatrous in our prophecies and ministries. It is grace that has brought us each this far, it is grace that will get us home.

  12. DeWayne Nov 13th 2012

    The church, body of Christ, is a spiritual church dead to (our) flesh of this world, yet living by grace of the HS although living yet in the world… at neglect of the spiritual Kingdom unseen. It is not the flesh that was sanctified, but the soul which was ever our goal for salvation.

    I would have expected greater emphasis upon the leadership and false leadership within the church, also upon the sheep that follow as taught by Christ. When did the body begin maturity, making possible unity of the spirit, reigning-serving (with) the Lord?

    We have the mind of the Lord, show me the evidence of this in the church, among the sheep… those failures!

    Did the sheep ask to follow false teaching and prophecy, often by the antichrist that had wormed their way within Christian leadership no less? Where was this wonderful ‘discernment’ that the sheep desperately needed… those failures?

    Feed My Sheep, Iran attacking Israel, what goverrnment is your absolute favorite… the blind leading the blind… forgive me Andrew for this emotional outburst.

  13. Kaina Cookie Nov 13th 2012

    … OUCH! & Touché.Wolfgang … rather you spanking than God’s spanking (judgement)

  14. Word from the Lord/

    Present State

    The NATION is being HELD HOSTAGE/ right now.

    GOD said this to me while I was watching News concerning all that is now unfolded
    about the Cover Ups concerning General Petraeus and what he new
    about the Attack on Benghaz and the security situation there. etc

    ELECTION

    OBAMA did not Win, Romney Lost because of his PRIDE/

    Psa 75:7
    But God [is] the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

    There was a News Black out on alot of things that went on concerning the Republican
    Party, and some very Under handed things that Republicans did to those in their own Party/

    They did some AWFUL things to Ron Paul, and Sarah Palin, which amounted to them
    cutting their own Throat/

    Things that caused GOD to HONOR HIS WORD CONCERNING PRIDE !

    Pro 16:18
    Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    You can not Call yourself a Christian and Dis Honor others the way these people did/
    and get GOD to Honor you. The Republican Party divided itself/ when they alienated
    Ron Paul from the convention.

    They totally Insulted Ron Paul, as if his VOTERS met nothing to them.???
    As if they did not need the Independent VOTERS?

    Ron Paul has Thousands of followers, who chose NOT TO VOTE FOR ROMNEY after
    he INSULTED RON PAUL/

    That is why Romney Lost/ HIS PRIDE lead him to his FALL.’

    Since know one counted the Votes that people WROTE in, know one will ever know
    just how many people VOTED FOR RON PAUL, and did not give their Vote to Romney
    out of pure Dis Like for him/

    IT is Really to BAD that this isn’t REALIZED, it might Help them Learn how to Treat
    your Fellow man, it you want to get God on your Side.

    GOD is LOOKING to Restore the Spirit of our Fore Fathers within our Nation, and
    Romney was found Wannting in that respect. God disqualified him.

    However, Government is not Our GOD/ so lets MOVE ON WARDED and UP WARD/

    Ms Terry Mosley
    nov 2012

  15. Brother Paul Nov 13th 2012

    If Jesus was TRULY Lord in your life, my life and in the lives of the many millions of professing Christians worldwide; and if, in particular, all American Christians were TRULY Christians, would America be in the mess it’s in today? Would the world be in the mess it’s in today if Jesus was truly Lord?

    Yes, He IS Lord of all the earth and of the whole universe, but is He Lord in our individual lives? Most of us are ‘professing Christians’ are we not? Does Jesus sit on the throne of our lives, or are we (self) the one who really sits on the throne?

    Listen to our conversations and the answer will soon be evident, for out of the abundance of the heart our mouths speak.. and more often than not, we speak about self, self, self and about what we, meaning I, want for our lives!

    Translated into millions of lives, this equates that the US got the President it deserved – as has always been the case throughout the Bible’s history – the people got the king they deserved.

    How and why was Obama elected in the first place? Is it not because of pride and arrogance – personal and collective pride and arrogance? And does not Obama personify those two (and many other) characteristics which are simply collective traits which show the true national ‘heart’ of America?

    If Christians were REALLY Christians as Jesus is our example, would it be at all possible for any non-Christian to be elected as leader in a so-called Christian nation?

    The only reason that a blatant, arrogant, proud, boasting and self-loving person can be elected in a so-called Christian nation – is if the CHRISTIAN people do not seek God and seek His will for that nation.

    Take King Saul as a perfect example – the people (God’s chosen people no less) wanted him to be king – he was not God’s choice, however God did allow the people to have what they wanted – and they got Saul as a result. King Saul represented the true heart condition of the nation of Israel at the time!

    Obama represents the heart condition of America in a similar way that Saul represented Israel’s heart condition.

    If, as God’s people we were to have Jesus truly as LORD of our lives, and if we were to diligently seek God for who HE wants – not our will but His be done – then America and other ‘Christian’ nations would be in a much better place today.

    As God’s people, we and the rest of the world, get what we deserve. It is because of the wickedness and selfishness in OUR hearts that the world is in the condition it’s in.

    Yes, soon the whole world will be ‘As it was in the time of Noah’ where everybody ‘did their own thing and did as they pleased’. Soon it will be time for God to judge this whole earth once again.

    God will have to judge again, not because of their (meaning everybody else’s) wickedness, but because of OUR wickedness and because WE, God’s people, have not sought His Kingdom on this earth – instead, most of us have sought our own kingdoms because ‘King Self’ is lord of our lives.

    And yet – in spite of us and in spite of our failings – our God is a God of great mercy and grace. Perhaps there is yet time, time for God’s people to humble ourselves, fall on our faces and to call on Him as in 2 Chron 7:14

    The president or whoever the leader is in your nation, cannot fix the problems – only Jesus can do that. But we are called to do our part, and that is to allow Him to be King in our lives so that He can be King in your nation as well.

    While there is still time, let us diligently seek Him and seek His will – for our lives individually, and for the nation in which we live. After all, that is why God has placed us within that particular nation – to serve Him, to see His will done and to see His Kingdom here on this earth. Now, and not just in the future.

  16. Andrew Nov 13th 2012

    DeWayne – there was more to this article that I simply could not fit in. Pretty long already.

    If you want to read the rest, I’m sure you could find it online somewhere. I was not given a link – just sent the article.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  17. “we have cogent reasons to believe that there is a very
    real hope for a historic, mind-blowing turnaround and a possible
    re-invention of America.”

    I have to strongly disagree with this. It tells me our brother doesn’t understand the times nor the “wrath of God being revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness.”

    There is no hope for an awakening in America, only judgment.
    It is time for the remnant to gather together. The coming of the LORD is near. He will purge His bride to prepare her the wedding.

    Here is what David Wilkerson’s ministry sent out today:

    WE MUST TAKE GOD AT HIS WORD

    by David Wilkerson

    “The Lord said . . . the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and . . . their

    sin is very grievous” (Genesis 18:20). We all love to hear about God’s mercy,

    grace and longsuffering. But we do not want to face the fact that someday soon

    He will come against everything that is of Sodom.

    God revealed His nature to Moses this way: “The Lord passed by before him, and

    proclaimed, The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and

    abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity

    and transgression and sin” (Exodus 34:6-7). Yet in the very next phrase, God

    added: “I will by no means clear the guilty” (verse 7).

    The Lord was saying, “I will not wink at sin! Yes, I am merciful and

    longsuffering, but the time is coming when my patience with your sin will end.

    And that is when Sodom will burn!”

    Two angels came to Lot and warned, “Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters

    which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city” (Genesis 19:15).

    Apparently Lot did not take this warning seriously because he slept in the next

    morning and the angels had to rouse him. His sons-in-law must have thought,

    “If he really believed the warning, he’d be on his way out of here right now. He

    doesn’t believe it, so why should we?” This should be a lesson to us all.

    We need to live as if Christ is about to return so that others will listen to our witness.

    I believe in what are called “divine ultimatums”—times when the Holy Spirit

    knows your sin is about to bring you to ruin. The Lord comes to you and says,

    “I am the God of grace, and I want to deliver you out of this. Now, turn from

    your sin. Obey My Word!”

    These ultimatums are found throughout the Bible. For instance, Acts tells us

    Ananias and Sapphira were warned not to grieve the Holy Ghost by lying to Him.

    But they disobeyed and lied—and instantly dropped dead (see Acts 5).

    It does not matter how much you pray or fast, or how faithful you are in doing

    God’s work; if you do not believe God will deal seriously with your sin, you are deceived!

    ********************************************
    It is time to forsake all that is not of the LORD.
    It is time to prepare for great calamities.
    It is time to pray and intercede for God’s people.
    Isaiah 34

  18. oh, and aside from my spelling (excerpt) please don’t take my post above of the original as condemning the fact that only part was put up here… There is a work being done, we must have ears to hear. If that work is done via part of a letter, so be it.

  19. Andrew Nov 13th 2012

    Thanks, Todd.
    Yes – this was all I felt I could fit.

    Glad you posted the link.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  20. Leslie Martileno Nov 13th 2012

    Good word! I have been saying this all along to those who claim to be Christians, but I have felt like John,’ the voice crying in the wilderness’. I will pass this article on and pray that they wake up.

  21. Dear Andrew, my brother, Because of Grace I will leave it alone. God will justify Himself.

    It’s OK that we are not on the same page. Truly. I am not angry with you or any of these dear people, but the enemy is getting too much credit. Just because we aren’t on the same page doesn’t mean we don’t love each other. I receive your love and I know you receive mine, because that is how you are. You are one of the good guys in Christ.

  22. What a very sobering article. We as individuals will either fall on the rock that is Christ or it will fall on us. Anyone who looks around the western Church sees a Church in name only bereft of power submitted not to Jesus and His Lordship but to ourselves and what He can do for us. This I know that Jesus would have none perish and that while consequences of our failure to obey will come He brings those consequences to cause us to repent and submit to Him.

    Jesus is in the salvation business not the judgement business. Judgement will and must come but Jesus would have all saved and all mature in Him. So often the world is condemned for the gross darkness we all see but God knew that darkness before we ever saw it in the fullness we see today and He died for all anyway. Jesus is looking for a Church (you and me) to be the light that changes the world of 1 person who in turn changes the world of another.

    Today make a difference in just one person’s life.

  23. Andrew, Thanks for posting both this follow up and Wolfgang’s original letter. Those of us who have known Wolf for some time know the deep commitment he has to both the organic house church movement and to the Kingdom of God. His ministry has been an on-going blessing.

    Like Wolf, many believers are coming to the realization that it is time to get our attention off of politics and “the kingdoms of this world” and to refocus our attention on The Kingdom of God. In response to the recent elections in the States I felt compelled to write and encourage believers along the same line. My posted article is entitled “Thy Kingdom Come”: Reflections on Politics, Elections and The Kingdom of God”. You can read it here: http://www.safehousesofhopeandprayer.org/2012/11/thy-kingdom-come-reflections-on-politics-elections-and-the-kingdom-of-god/

  24. Camalunghi Nov 13th 2012

    I have visited the US numerous times, its a wonderful country in many ways, which is why many people emmigrate to the US. And yes…the US has many faults and very serious……but living in Brazil as I have for the past 9 yrs and seeing what is supposed to pass for Christianity…..The church in Brazil should also be trembling with the fear of God. The “Crench” are regarded by many non Christians as a joke….People even start churches here to make money as its lucrative. I wont begin to list all the other stuff I see…….Some how the Gospel got watered down seriously.

    I do believe judgement is coming to the nations…..technology and the world is changing rapidly and it isnt going to take long before something happens as part of Gods judgement

  25. Kaina Cookie Nov 13th 2012

    interesting! So when judgement comes how will it affect those who are walking in obedience to God?

  26. Andrew Nov 13th 2012

    Cama – Yes – the “Prosperity” teaching is utterly destroying the witness of the church in many nations.

    So sad…

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  27. Nancy Dunkle Nov 13th 2012

    Thank you, Wolfgang and Mercy, for your letters and prayers! Thank you for your willingness to be vulnerable for His Kingdom’s sake.

    I wrote the following on my Facebook page:

    “‘OUR DEAR AMERICA – Part 2’ – a letter by Wolfgang and Mercy Simson. Breathtakingly direct and truthful…and, amazingly, in His love, too! I believe Parts 1 and 2 are must-reads for the body of Christ in America. We ALL need adjustments in this hour, no matter what we think we know or where we think we are at spiritually, and this will definitely do that…IF we have ears to really hear…”

    The Lord corrected me many years ago (and many times since 🙂 when I “knew that I knew that I knew” what was truth on a matter, yet the love just wasn’t there:

    During my rant, He gently interjected, “It is not truth, Nancy.”

    “What?? How can that be? I KNOW it is true! The facts are there!” I blurted.

    “Truth is not truth without love…and love is not love without truth…” He kindly, but firmly added.

    I heard the Truth in Love in His response to me then, and I hear the same in your letters. Both touched and adjusted my spirit and perspective where it was needed. That is one reason why I believe your letters will awaken many more (2 Timothy 2:23-26) . God bless you…

  28. I love your letters you send around Andrew. I like the sober messages.
    Personally I think this whole conversation/discussion however is void and redundant. It is an ignorant and manly pompous view that has people watching politics in an attempt to see what YAHWEH is doing in the scheme of things. YESHUA when asked about government said “Who’s inscription is this on the coin? – Well render to Ceaser what is his”
    If we actually look at this less on a National stage and more one a Global stage, the Election is irrelevant. America is no different from any other Country and with all the above mentioned references to GOD having rule over all the nations, why are we so hooked up on believing that somehow America is anything special. Let us not forget Gidians Army.
    The fact of the Matter is Romney is not a Christian, He is a Mormon – Just as much a child of Satan as Obama. Obama has to be voted in (Or someone with same message) as The LORD says they will say peace, peace, and there will be no peace.
    When we hear Obama saying “We will grow with Global Peace being our goal, Because that is what god wants” Then we know who his god is. Our GOD says there will be no Peace. His god (the god of this world) Comes with peace to fool the nations.
    This election means nothing,
    GOD does not bless or curse a particular nation for the Righteous peoples sake (Gen 18 – Abrahams Petition). GOD’s view is for-written clearly in The Bible and the Election of a lying Muslim or a lying Mormon makes no difference to YAHWEH’s plan. To think it does denies GOD’s sovereignty and puts man in control. (Romans 13:1 – Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.)

    GOD Bless you all.

  29. The first article was good, but this second one is far better. Excellent job, Sir.

  30. Barnabas Nov 14th 2012

    1John 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. 14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
    16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
    18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

    Is58

  31. Graham Nov 14th 2012

    Awesome awesome stuff. Thanks again Andrew for sharing this…. and I will be passing this on.

  32. Regardless of what nation we are from, we are either Born again and serving Christ or we are not. No one nation has a special hold on godliness, NOR sin. As Mystery Babylon, we will not repent and grave purging concentration camps await those true Christians who will be ones who have decided to live fast and lose in this end time.

    Many will turn their backs on Christ but many will submit to the purging and become Martyrs and have a glorious entrance into Heaven…..and so it will be with all nations. No one nation has the corner on sin and rebellion and coldness as a Christian, and none are more perfect in Christ than another saint in any other nation.

    Many people are obsessed with this nation and just waiting for the ax to fall, and indeed it shall, but…..we are not as Christians…Americans, Jews, Greeks, Chinese….but all the same under our skin, in our hearts…..American Christians will not change if God sent angles up and down our streets warning…and neither will those from other nations. We are no better nor any worse than any Christian from any other nation….our earthly address, for rebellion is rampant in all nations. “FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.” NOT JUST AMERICA, though we have indeed sinned and fallen short of His glory!

  33. Kade, well said, brother. Thank you.

  34. Holey-moley! If this isn’t a wake-up call for the body of Christ, I don’t know what is. It is excellent. Thanks so much.

  35. Michelle d. Nov 14th 2012

    Thank You… I was born in USA… MET Jesus while committing
    Suicide… I was a drug addict… And Alcoholic… It was as Saul on the road to Damascus… My life transfromed instantly by the Holy Spirit
    delivered me and transformed my entire life… Most people here are not saved… I have lived a separated life ever since… It was Christ in me…obedience is better than sacrifice… Our pastors here so lukewarm … I am ashamed… attend churces with lower standard of Holiness… Than a new convert they are transfromed and when they go to church… It is among lukewarm people with not faith… They belive something just not God or truth… Our Country is in troble But well fast and pray for whatever it takes for revival… Well are the most deceived country in the world… I would that you where HOT or COLD we are lukewarm at best… Hot… here preachers call it Rebellion…
    Oh that God brings whatever it takes… Revival… Lord…
    There is salvation in no other…
    Where else can we go but the Cross…
    Washed… in the blood of the Lamb…
    Please pray whatever it takes… God… Is our only hope
    We look to you not man… You are salvation…
    We repent Lord JESUS…
    MERCY & TRUTH are before your thrown
    Come Lord Jesus… You are all we ever needed…
    We are just like Nineveh…oh to dicern the righthand and the left…
    Lord Please… Repentance

  36. Truer Vitriol could never be spoken except by a person Providentially named “Wolfgang”. If you had a true anointing you could bring some Revival here, but lambasting a lame Church over an over does little to make any difference. Try living under Communism or ISLAM if you don’t think the Constitution of the USA had some light from Biblical and Christian elements. It was the political flowering of the Reformation. It did NOT save souls, but it has been a tremendous blessing from God for all those who have lived and love to live in freedom (in context of civil government). If the American Church was awake, we would not have had a Mormon nominated for president or a man with marxist and Muslim sympathies as president now. Come to think of it “I SLAM” fits Wolfgang’s letter..

  37. Wolfgang and Mercy say:
    1. “Our point is this: all nations are under Gods rightful judgment, because all of them have long ago removed themselves from under his rule – ”

    But these nations are condemned already Jesus said in John 3’18.
    And has any nation ever put themselves under God’s rule?

    Surely some of this deterioration has occurred because Christ’s People/Shepherds have ceased to be salt and light to their societies around them.

    2. “The . . . problem so big that hardly anyone can or wants to see it, is this: most Christians are not in the Kingdom.” Wolfgang and Mercy, you are so, so right.

    Why is this? Back to shepherds. Their main ministry is to lead. Sheep follow when they’re fed Kingdom food!

    Very significantly, the Kingdom of God doesn’t have leaders. There are those who lead and who are called “leading brethren” but no one is called a leader. Nor is there such a ministry as “leadership”.

    I wondered why. Could it be because God only has shepherds?

    Listen to this from Revelation 7:17: “for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters”. Pretty wonderful, eh?

    Who needs “leadership conferences” – for pastors, leaders and businessmen. Christ’s Called-Out People need to hear from and see the examples of Kingdom shepherds.

    Our citizenship is in heaven! We’re looking towards a city whose builder and maker is God. Hallelujah!

  38. John S Nov 14th 2012

    Terry wrote…
    “Please understand that it was not Christians who voted for Obama but the deceived atheists, gays, feminists, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, name-only Christians who, by and large, voted for Obama. America is no longer a Christian nation like it was.”
    My question is…who voted for the Mormon called Mitt Romney? Is is assumed to be christians?
    Having said that, I am an elderly gentleman living in the UK, and a christian. The Labour Party was formed by christians and with other folk due to the ill political practices going on at the beginning of the 20th century and which continued with the two major parties called the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party.
    A two party system similar to which operates now in the USA. The British then became fed up to the nines with the greed and corrupt practices which brought GB to its knees. The American system has become the same, hence what is going on in the country.
    The USA claims to be christian as with the United Kingdom – but they are not.
    Both countries mock the Lord God Almighty and without both nations repenting, together with the christian church, before God Almighty, nothing will change. REPENTANCE IS THE KEY. But without the call to REPENTANCE and folk getting down on their knees before Him, the same calamities will happen time and time again with situations going from bad to worse.
    In the meantime, please stop playing with religion and start preaching the gospel message and GO YE into the world and be prepared to share the Good News and become John the Baptists by calling people to REPENTANCE.
    So simple but then who wishes of obey Almighty God’s instructions?

  39. Nations can’t be Christian but individuals can.
    Nations can’t repent but individuals can.

    Where we stand with God depends on us.

  40. Brother Paul Nov 14th 2012

    Where are those who call themselves Intercessors? Where are those who call themselves Watchmen? Where are those who call themselves (true) Prophets? And where oh where are the Pastors (the true Shepherds)?
    Without the above, a nation perishes!
    But do the people listen and do they heed to the voice of God when He speaks?

  41. Brother Paul Nov 14th 2012

    Re Tim… what is a nation made of if it isn’t made of individuals? Even God called His people a nation – the Nation of Israel (which was made up of the nations of Israel [10 tribes] and Judah [2 tribes]). Nations came to invade (the nation of) Israel – all nations which were made up of individual people…

  42. The two party system now operating in the USA and the UK is not democracy. They are run by Big Business and greedy people who want power and control over the people.
    The political system is now evident in the European Union which wishes to dominate its people. Just look what is happening in EU countries where the political system wants to take control of everything. This is nothing but communism in disguise but then capitalism as its worse.
    It will end and which people are calling for today – a world leader to take the helm of things because political leaderships everywhere are failng, or have failed.
    This is in line what the Book of Revelation describes.
    There is no unity within the western church. Its membership is being scattered and false teachings and false prophecies have become its downfall. There will be no world wide revival. The dominant Word of Faith preachers are proclaiming prosperity and a world wide revival while charismatics are chasing signs and wonders to all the corners of the earth without any discernment.
    I wonder – if Mitt Romney had become the president of the United States of America would he had sworn his allegiance on the Bible or the Book of Mormon?
    Praise the Lord I am a member of the Body of Christ and not part of any religious group or system!

  43. Yes “brother Paul”, Nations are made up of individuals – individuals that make different and often conflicting individual decisions. Our own spiritual destinies are determined by our own individual decisions, they are not determined by the spiritual state of the nations in which live.

  44. Brother Paul Nov 14th 2012

    Tim… please tell me, what makes ‘the spiritual state’ of a nation?

  45. I don’t even know what to say. Things are shocking to say the least. There are many things to be sad about right now. I see much hatred and justified murder because of race hate. I see the so-called body of Christ justifying hate of other skin colors. Excuse me-but arent we all one in Jesus.
    I am numb and don’t know how to feel or respond. I do know I am a child of King Jesus-thats all I know.

  46. Barnabas Nov 14th 2012

    The political animal. http://www.susa.info/

  47. Is not history repeating itself once again. Men appear not learning from their mistakes but keep on doing their own thing in the sight of God Almighty.
    It is happening in America, in Great Britain and in Europe.
    They mock God and the Word of God.
    His judgement is falling upon nations and this is due to their disobedience and putting two fingers up at Him who is the Creator of this world and the universe. Greed and sinful lives take precidence having become the norm for the 21st century.
    The Lord Jesus is coming soon!

  48. Connie Bumbalough Nov 14th 2012

    This letter needs to be read from every pulpit in America!
    Amen and Thank you!

    Even so – MARANATHA!

  49. BP asked me “what makes the “spiritual state of a nation”?

    Man’s fallen nature. The fact that nations are made up of fallen humanity, the majority of whom prefer the wide path to destruction.

    We are not judged according the nation’s choices. Our spiritual condition and destiny are determined by our personal (not national) relationship with God.

  50. No need to argue…only the need to repent. Hey, if I’m doing something that’s not right, I want to know, so I can repent and move on. That’s the problem with a lot of people these days…they’d rather argue then repent. It’s also a problem with the modern day Church…there doesn’t seem to be a lot of rebuking going on. In the spirit of 2 Timothy 3:16-4:5, I thank you from my heart. God bless you for your honesty.

    On a side note, I think I’m going to like the new book, Andrew. The first few paragraphs are inviting. Sounds like I’ll have to read the rest of it.

    God bless…

  51. From “The Assimilated Church in America”, an article by Rick Freuh.

    I believe there are two main reasons why the evangelical community fell prey to such unchristian rhetoric and helped make carnal men and women of the media millionaires many times over. The first is that the church had evolved into believing that allegiance to America and allegiance to Christ were not only compatible, but were synonymous. This is spiritually deadly and leads to all kinds of ungodly attitudes within the church.

    We are taught by the Master Himself that even mothers and fathers must not have our allegiance, and any love that we should have for them must be seen as hatred in comparison for the love and allegiance we should have for Christ. Could that be any clearer? And yet we have been indoctrinated from birth about allegiance to America and since people recognize how that could be taken as compromise, they have concocted a fairy tale about America being a Christian nation, appointed by God, and thereby allegiance to America can be seen as allegiance to God. “One nation, under God” is part of the deception.

    Full article here:
    http://judahslion.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/the-assimmilated-church-in-america.html

  52. Brother Paul Nov 14th 2012

    Tim.. isn’t ‘the spiritual state of a nation’ determined by the collective spiritual state of individuals? Or is ‘the spiritual state of a nation’ an entity that exists within itself? I’m sorry, but I do not understand your comment…

  53. 2 Timothy 3:16-4:5! Amen and Amen.

  54. BP, I have already answered you question clearly. I can add nothing more to what I said in that earlier answer.

  55. BP after giving more thought…

    1) yes – the collective spiritual state of individuals.
    2) most individuals choose to remain on the wide path to destruction (few take the narrow path according to Jesus)

    No nation is synonymous with God’s Kingdom.
    National interests will not match with the interests of God’s Kingdom.

  56. Andrew Nov 14th 2012

    The clearest sign that US Christians are confusing nationalism with the Kingdom is their attitude toward the MILITARY and WAR.

    Since when is Christianity about sending troops to kill people?

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  57. Brother Paul Nov 14th 2012

    Tim… your answer appears contradictory to say the least… and confusing as well.

    Did Jesus not tell us when He prayed… “Our Father who is in Heaven… Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven…”. Was He not talking about the present tense as well as the future tense?

    Is Jesus not the 2nd Adam who came to restore dominion to God’s people because the 1st Adam gave that dominion to the devil? Are we not supposed to be Kingdom minded NOW as well as for eternity? God is the same yesterday… today… and forever. Past, present and future tense.

    How can ‘the spiritual state of a nation’ exist outside the collective individual spirituality of a group of people (nation etc), no matter how many individual people are involved?

    To me, considering the questions I raised, I find that your ‘answers’ are no answers at all and leave much to be desired, however… I am grateful for your input and your responses. May God bless you abundantly.

  58. BP if you choose not see what was clearly written…

  59. Katherine Burnog Nov 14th 2012

    There’s a lot of talk here about whether or nor people belong to the “Kingdom of God’. It looks like no one really understands that the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU. It is not like some club you join! In fact Paul says, the’ kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit’. I cannot see how you can judge, or rather what right you have to judge, who does or does not belong to the Kingdom.

    Please, take a look at Matthew 7, John 7:24 and other verses in that Chapter – people we cannot judge – this is not our privilege, whether we agree with what people are doing or not! Stop the ‘pointing of the finger’ (Is 58) – because we will be judged by what comes from our mouths.

    Please also stop giving the enemy the praise. He is a defeated foe, judged, sentenced and condemned already. Jesus DESTROYED the works of the enemy, HE DIDN’T JUST GIVE HIM A BIT OF A KICK, HE DESTROYED HIS WORKS.(1Jn 3:8, and He gave you and me authority over all his power.

    So it’s time to start ‘calling those things that are not as though they were’, instead of blasting out the problem. You’d better start seeing the whole earth filled with the glory of the Lord, because that’s the way it is and always will be, not filled with the filth you’re looking at.

  60. One more attempt:

    1) YES the spiritual state of a nation’ is determined by the collective spiritual state of individuals.

    2) The majority will always choose to remain in darkness therefore the spiritual state of nations will be one of darkness. (Few take the narrow path that leads to life according to Jesus).

    Therefore no nation is synonymous with God’s Kingdom
    Therefore no National interest will match the interests of God’s Kingdom.

    I see no contradiction in that. I see nothing confusing in that.

    But if someone believes that God’s Kingdom can and will be set up on earth before Jesus returns – then I see they might find that confusing because there would be little common ground for sharing understanding.

  61. I had to point out your poor choice of words you used in this article that is the same “catch phrase” of a certain American political leader ,” to be as clear and concise” or as he likes to say, “let me be clear”. Ouch! I just wanted to say I have learned over the years on the anonymous internet where people will write what they will never say in person that responding to criticism directly is usually a futile and unfruitful practice. I have found it is best to just remain silent to your critics’ whether or not things are said about you are true or false. The alternative is a flame war that never edifies anyone. This was always Jesus practice when he was maligned and lied about throughout his earthly time, and yet remained “silent before his accusers”. I also had to say you did not help your case by being a friend to american christians by using statistic that show American Christians are less obedient or less than “fully Christian” then non-American ones. Wow, did you really write that?
    I will say as an American I agree 100% that Christians are making a big mistake looking to political leaders for change in America, or any other country for that matter.
    I have responded to this forum a few times over the years with the same thought; We need revival in America but it will not come until Christians stop being mad at the lost for the condition of this country and instead drop to their knees pleading for God’s mercy for them with tears saying, “if not for the grace of God there goes I please have mercy on THEM Lord!” Notice I did not say please has mercy on Me and change this country for MY sake or my children’s sake. That is a selfish prayer; no have mercy on them and save them.
    George Bush was a born again Christian that by his own testimony was lead to the Lord by the personal evangelism of Billy Graham arguably the most famous American evangelist of this past century, and this country did not change at all while he was in office for two terms. Maybe he held off worse things from happening, but there was no positive change in the moral fabric or laws of our land. The answer is not in politics and it never was.

  62. Dear Katherine, the Kingdom is not “within you”. That statement is in direct contradiction to the word of Christ.

    The reading should be “among you”. Jesus was speaking to Pharisees. The Kingdom was among them because The King was among them, Luke 17’20-21.

    Our first experience with the Kingdom is one of a number that occur when we receive Christ and a very powerful one:

    “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,” Colossians 1’13.

    This is a most marvellous truth.

    But Matthew 18 talks about us being able to enter the Kingdom and live the Kingdom way.

    However, there are other things that Believers are subjected to which mislead as well, sadly.

  63. Johan Laubser Nov 14th 2012

    Wow! If ever someone spoke out of the mouth of God,then this is it. Bless you sir for saying it as it is. Deception! We as socalled christians,especially in the “renewal” think that people under “The Law” refers to those still following the biblical law of Moses and those who are religious,fact is: Most “Free” denominations are in bondage because of our new laws. Living Kingdom means nothing else than being ABSULUTELY FREE IN JESUS. He has done it all! Because we are being deceived by “well meaning” preachers,we think all, but us, are in bondage, while they just tied(or is it tithed?) us up under a new law,manmade that is. Because of this perceived guildt we tend to focus on other being under the law with the beam in our own eyes…WE CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THE FULLNESS OF WHAT JESUS HAS DONE ON THE CROSS FOR YOU! WE ARE MADE FREE! PAID FOR! “IT IS FINNISHED!”Only then will we start living contrary to what Wolfgang has said. Blessings in Jesus My Savior!

  64. New Jerusalem Nov 14th 2012

    AMEN!! to this article. It is filled with the Truth, the Way, and the Life!

    the American churches preach ONLY A SMALL PART OF THE GOSPEL…….thus the lack of KINGDOM participation.

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is ONE PART of the COMPLETE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM.

    Mat 4:23 KJV – And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
    Mat 9:35 KJV – And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
    Mat 24:14 KJV – And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    Mar 1:14 KJV – Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
    Mar 1:15 KJV – And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

    Jesus called Himself the DOOR. The door is AN ENTRANCE TO SOMETHING. An entrance to what??
    Or did you believe the Door was an exit…..a way to escape hell?

    Jhn 10:7 KJV – Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I AM THE DOOR OF THE SHEEP.
    Jhn 10:9 KJV – I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and SHALL GO IN AND OUT, and find pasture.

    Luk 17:20 KJV – And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, THE KINGDOM OF GOD COMETH NOT WITH OBSERVATION

    Luk 17:21 KJV – Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU.

    As the DOOR/JESUS opens into the HOLY OF HOLIES (the Manifest Presence of God/HIS GLORY). As the DOOR/Jesus opens into the Kingdom of God.

    Where is the Kingdom of God?

    Wherever Jesus Christ is RULING!! As a born again person….Jesus Christ “should be” RULING INSIDE OF YOU.

    If your ENTIRE LIFE (every aspect; every moment) is not being RULED/CONTROLLED/POSSESSED by Jesus Christ, then the Kingdom of God is NOT IN YOU…..and you are not in the Kingdom of God.

    This is what the article explains very PLAINLY IN SIMPLE CLEAR TERMS.

  65. I have no inspirational words to share. No judgment or praise, other than praise to my Beloved King Jesus. I am speechless at the truth of this message. I have read and re-read these words and now must go digest them and meditate even more on them. This is a lot to take in. God bless you for your courage and forthrightness.

  66. Daniel Nov 14th 2012

    The full gospel; is the Kindgom of God; which we read in Is.61; then Jesus quotes it in Lk4; about the spirit of the Lord is upon me to:…..
    (next part Jesus Job duties/ what he also told disciplies to do in Matt 10; what Jesus told them to go and make all diciples doing those works.
    We see in Acts Peter & John going into temple, stating what we have we give to you……..raise and walk———-guess what the person starting walking………….not happening in churches today…………so question is God same yesterday, today, forever as bible says He is!!!! If that is true then we the church is in sin……..cuase we aren’t doing the kingdom work…………blind see; deaf ear, dead raised, feeding 5k with sacklunch.
    Go to bk of Judges Gidden stated to angel God isn’t with us cuase of no mircles; angel started true………cuase you are serving the gods of land, and not the Lord your God……………sin==no power.
    if your church isn’t healing sick; raising dead; your church is in sin.
    in usa church is serving the gods of the land; $$$$ churches have come under the headship of gov’t by being a 503c corp…..tax code; not to paid taxes, but to have that type of corp. means they obey gov’t 1st; God 2nd.
    another western god is Psych…………psych. came from the greek zen god Apollo; and apollo used a form of witchcraft to heal the minds of the other gods……….
    Bible states annointing breaks the yoke………..
    Bible states not by might, not by power, but by my spirit saids the Lord…….
    Psych is by might/power of a spirit of witchcraft……….
    your church takes stuff from Psych. to do healing classes????===SIN
    your church isn’t walking in the annointing of the Lord that breaks the yokes; therefore they have turned to the devil for healing.
    many churches around the world use Psych ‘wisdom/spirit’ and put their people in a class.
    churches in usa have on their staff persons of doctor degrees in Psych. cause they are ‘afaird’ of being sued when counciling people.
    fear of man; fear of losing $$$, cuase they don’t have annointing of Lord to heal.
    another lie: can’t get healed without Psych……….how did Jesus; Paul, etc heal persons??????annointing of LORD……..NOT Psch.

    church doesn’t want to repent, and come out of lie……..so we got a leader that is a major lier; and no respect for God; as church has no respect to get back to basis of Is61; Lk4, Matt10, 2Tim2:2—-ie. obeying bible; therefore we have leader that isn’t following the const. of usa—–not rocket science; spelled out very clear in bible about leader is a mirror of people’s heart.
    by views unless church repents/fasts/etc usa $$$ will be 3rd world valve by May of 2013

    Daniel

  67. The comments on this item are as expected varied.
    Taking an overall view from the comments and concerns it appears in my opinion that there is a vast number of Christians who are just content to criticize, quote scripture and do NOTHING practical. God can and will use people who are willing to obey.
    “When it comes to serving the Lord some stop at nothing”
    God put His love into action, MOVED with compassion, HE “went about doing good ” HE was and is a man of action but here is the uncomfortable crunch….He USES US !
    Christian unite, rally round God’s banner of truth and get marching.
    It is so easy to criticize. Get in local government, school boards.,
    WE ARE the salt of the earth (???). The previous contributor
    ( Daniel) says” the church doesn’t want to repent” and I agree the church is you and I …. repentance means to admit failure, disobedience. So leave the comfort zone of and put on the armour of God . The armour is meant for battle not a museum piece. Put it on.. The sword IS the Word of God it’s no use on the book shelf
    Andrew thanks for you work on this web site,
    May be it could be use to rally Christian to be PRACTICAL and less critical
    THANKS BE UNTO GOD WHO GIVES US THE VICTORY
    HERE I AN LORD USE ME PLEASE

    AMEN
    Be a Joshua now.
    Blessings abundant
    .

  68. AND OF COURSE IT IS ESSENTIAL TO PRAY FREVENTLY

  69. Barnabas Nov 14th 2012

    Each as temples of the Holy Spirit have a duty to be honourable priests in our temples before anything else. The primary role of the military is protection of the rule of law. Action under the UN ensures a further mandate. Called to live in not of the world. May the Lord be gracious and merciful towards us. Encouraging patience and prevent us from being quick to condemn others to eternity in he’ll.

  70. john M Nov 14th 2012

    Re your second commentary

    I think That you are overdoing the condemnation factor. Jesus always had to have amazing patience in dealing with His disciples stupid and worldly viewpoints (“Who of us will be the greatest” etc )

    Even after Pentecost and the Holy Spirit “Bringing all things to your remembrance” the early churches got up to all kinds of weakness and temptation which we read about in St Paul’s letters in which he was always loving them even when he chided them.

    The USA people are always enthusiastic about anything new, the Life in the Spirit being no exception and they do get up to all sorts of showbiz,semi-holy activities. However, I do believe that the sinner’s prayer does “Save” but at the time they need to remember Jesus did say we all have to pick up our crosses and follow Him and many Christians know that these crucifixion times are truly testing but in terms of the letter to the Hebrews, God insists on training his adopted children and and maturing them on the path to ultimate perfection.(” You must be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect”)

    No pre-emptive condemnation for God’s struggling people people,please ! While there is life there is hope in His merciful forgiveness. Just pray constantly for all your fellow disciples and welcome similar prayers for yourself. We are all in His mystical Body of which He is the head !

  71. Marilyn Nov 14th 2012

    As an American who was saved in Eastern Europe, I appreciate the admonitions and rebukes from this brother who has clear insight into the overall sad spiritual state we have gotten into. May we be encouraged and challenged by believers who are living more biblically and take to heart and repent of whatever sins and shortcomings apply to us as individuals! May we not be complacent but return to our “first love”!

  72. Brother wolfgang-how deep are the wounds of a friend because they areaccurate.Pride is a difficult sin to be broken of andI find I am never completely rid of it.When God deals with me about it the lessons are never short andalways painful. I believe His dealings with our country will also not be short nor lack pain In Luke ch.4:7, the Amplifiedshows the devil telling Jesus-If you will do homage andworship me (just once) it shall all be yours.Where does that leave an individual or nation when we do Satans bidding regularly? The Hebrew writer (Heb.10:26-29)shows under old testament lawthere wasnoo provision made for stubborn,willfull sin, then reaffirms that under the new covenant, there is still no provision for it, but instead a fearfull looking for of judgement and the fury of burning wrath. He gives the cause as trampling underfoot the Son of God andcounting his blood as common. This is never taught as it might endander the sacred ‘tithes and offerings’ thus hindering the luxurious lifestyles of our ‘blessed to be a blessing’ pastors.I have believed for years that if the satanically furnished ‘profits’ were to dry up, that most ,if not all of these hucksters would disappear. Please keep the messages coming. A fellow Christ follower.

  73. Thank you so much Andrew for posting Wolfgang and Cindy’s excellent articles. If we had fewer milquetoast preachers in the pulpits in America, and more men like Peter Marshall (a Chaplain to the U.S. Senate back in the 1940’s), and Charles Spurgeon, Tozer, etc., etc., America would not be in the spiritual free-fall we have been experiencing for some time. My husband and I traveled for an extended time throughout the U.S. in volunteer Christian ministry and missed only 3 or 4 states in our travels. What a horrible eye-opener to see the weak, apathetic, prayerless, condition of the MAJORITY of our “Christian” churches. If we had half as many serious prayer meetings as pot lucks, we might realize that there is a huge difference between “social clubs” and true gatherings of prayer and worship. The great “falling away” – apostasy – is very much alive and well in American Christianity as declared would be the case in Scripture. “Christians” would be well-advised to read what Jesus Himself declared about the condition of the world in the last days and WAKE UP! Most of the above posts are excellent – several are just plain biblically illiterate with “personal opinions” rather than a submission to the truth of Scripture. I won’t name names – they unmask themselves.

  74. Some say the cross is nothing more than a symbol of cruelty, while others say it is only a reminder that Jesus died for us. But this morning, the Spirit spoke to my heart and said that it is now our burden to bear … If we are to follow Him to the ressurection, we must pick up the cross (His burden of caring for the poor, the sick and the lost) and carry it even to our own death. I’m not sure I have the courage.

    Just seemed more important. Peace.

  75. DonaldN Nov 14th 2012

    Many posts here are saying that we should not be condemning the church such as this letter does. However, how do you correct a child without first telling them what they are doing wrong?
    If Christians are not living in obedience to Christ, they most certainly should be told so.
    The problem I see is that the reason most of the church is not walking according to the Word is because they have not been told they are supposed to be doing so.
    I hear messages about prosperity, wealth, blessings, promises, but none about living right and repentance. In fact when I mention this I get the old response, “you are just trying to say we are saved by grace but must maintain our salvation by works.”
    They immediately reject any mention of works.
    But the Bible itself mentions it, why should not the preachers?

    Titus 3:8 …that they who have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

    2 Tim 3:16-17
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    The church leaders must begin to preach the whole gospel, not just the part that itch the ears of their congregation.

    Now to the political side of all this. True, politics won’t reform a nation, but if 80% of the people of a nation claim to be Christians, then you would think that would have a major influence on the governing part of that nation. If the government of such a nation is not following Christian principles it is obvious that the 80% are also not walking in obedience to Christ.

    Reform the Church and we would see a reformation of the government also.

  76. There is no”spiritual state” of an earthly nation. Spiritual states are measured in individuals or the church. If we are willing to reject nationalism and patriotism and return to them prayer closet, then there is a chance for revival on whatever level God can move. If the church continues its infatuation with any earthly nation, we will continue to be part of the prophetic utterance by our Lord, “Will I find faith on earth”.
    Would true followers of Jehovah help polish the golden calf because they said it could accomplish some good? That is what we do when we participate in a fallen system that invites all gods as equals and is fuled by an obscene amount of money. Forget the calf and serve the lamb.

  77. DonaldN Nov 14th 2012

    Andrew

    Perhaps a new discussion thread would be appropriate in which we all could talk about actual useful practices and actions that we could use to get this message to the “Church”. Many agree and some disagree concerning how bad the “church” is today, but what can we do about it. How do we reach the people with the truth? Would another “Great Awakening” wake up the Church? What are some practical things that successfully reach the people who are currently in deception?

  78. Barnabas Nov 14th 2012

    When disciplining a child one takes time to assess, if one has the authority the true context before responding. Then choose to privately engage, not shout at publicly from a far on in a public place for all the world to know. For my mind as stated previously, too many words. With words that are not clearly demarcated as too the audience. It doesn’t take too many to impart ‘anger’ that supports a ‘zeal’ that is willingly supported by the ‘despairing’. Compassion doesn’t avoid reality but focuses where appropriate. Pain is not ignored but processed. The nation of the church and it’s state is to be differentiated from the state of the nation.
    Otherwise, certain nation states are presumed as Zionist mantles.
    Preemptive and provoking battles that are unnecessary but due to the speed of reaction. Let’s begin to see the whole church rather than the ‘small corner’ in the West that presumes a superior position. Let’s have the balance of the ‘five’ fold ministries based on the Word rather than the ‘childishness’ of people washed to and fro by the latest prophecy.
    Let the Word take pride over man’s words. Let start by loving each other, even the ungodly. Very few understand the Torah that Jesus taught.

  79. The problem is that the whole Simpson hypothesis is flawed.

    Simpson says:
    “IF Jesus would be accepted as the ruling King of his people with the same or more passionate fervor that people went about electing a new president and spending their hope and money on it.”

    Money is a good indicator of heart. American Christians give billions of dollars to Christ but only a fraction of that to political causes.

    It’s possible that Simpson is a victim of the Main Stream Media, who love to report on ‘overly zealous misguided Tea Party Christians’, but never accurately report on the true state of Christianity within the US.

    Just because Christians engage in politics, doesn’t mean their first love isn’t Christ.

    Yes, the church is the US is deeply flawed, but is the European church better? I have lived for decades in Europe and decades in the US, and I assure you that European Christians should hesitate before casting the first stone.

    As a descendant of German Jews, you’d think Wolfgang would be sympathetic to Christians who tried hard to keep radical leaders out of office.

    peace,
    Simon

  80. DonaldN Nov 14th 2012

    Rick Frueh
    I have to disagree with you. God said in His Word
    Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. True, spirituality can only be with the individual, but through the vast majority of individuals who are faithful to Christ, the government will be influenced. I believe it is because of rejecting nationalism and patriotism that gave the ungodly the upper hand in moving into position of ruling over the rest. Why cannot I be a Christian Patriot? Christ first and country second. It was when the Church began to be apathetic about government that the ungodly began to make laws to please themselves.

  81. Michelle Nov 14th 2012

    Zep 2:1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
    Zep 2:2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD’S anger come upon you.
    Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD’S anger.

  82. When I was doing major research on early ‘Christainity’ (during Jesus lifetime), I was shocked to see all the many sects that were represented during those early days. How did He deal with them. He did and He didn’t. That should be an indication upon us. Since it isn’t, and like everything else pertaining to this world, we are forever to repeat our own thoughts, actions and doings. We just repeat ourselves into circles. My main focus on this #2 addition was “PERMISSIVE Wll” of God. In Obedience to Him, we don’t live in His permissive will….We live in His Perfect Will.

  83. DonaldD – This country was formed as a pluralistic country which invites all gods to be treated as equals. That has never been Christian. How can anyone be patriotic to that kiind of construct if Jesus is Lord? Only when you see America in a fanciful light.

  84. Sydney Nov 14th 2012

    So why no comments on Bro Dave’s earlier contribution?
    Wonder why ?
    Is it because his comments involve more than words

    “The comments on this item are as expected varied.
    Taking an overall view from the comments and concerns it appears in my opinion that there is a vast number of Christians who are just content to criticize, quote scripture and do NOTHING practical. God can and will use people who are willing to obey.
    “When it comes to serving the Lord some stop at nothing”
    God put His love into action, MOVED with compassion, HE “went about doing good ” HE was and is a man of action but here is the uncomfortable crunch….He USES US !
    Christian unite, rally round God’s banner of truth and get marching.
    It is so easy to criticize. Get in local government, school boards.,
    WE ARE the salt of the earth (???). The previous contributor
    ( Daniel) says” the church doesn’t want to repent” and I agree the church is you and I …. repentance means to admit failure, disobedience. So leave the comfort zone of and put on the armour of God . The armour is meant for battle not a museum piece. Put it on.. The sword IS the Word of God it’s no use on the book shelf
    Andrew thanks for you work on this web site,
    May be it could be use to rally Christian to be PRACTICAL and less critical
    THANKS BE UNTO GOD WHO GIVES US THE VICTORY
    HERE I AN LORD USE ME PLEASE
    Dave added and fervent prayer

    Keep active Dave we need action men

  85. I vote we give God our willing hearts and our obedience. We realize that our ways (including political ways) are not God’s ways, and we allow him to transform our minds. We adopt the gospel of the kingdom of God as the constitution.

    God’s ways are all upside down and opposite so it may difficult for some, but the Holy Spirit will get each one of us there if we are malleable.

    With this last American election maybe more will come around. Maybe the two issue voters (abortion and gay marriage) will finally realize that what they are doing is futile and only turns people off to the gospel. Obama will put Roe vs. Wade out of reach. We have gotten almost ridiculous trying to get unsaved people to live saved lives. Get them saved, and then you can teach them.

  86. debonnaire Nov 14th 2012

    “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord”.

    This scripture speaks of THE nation whose God is the Lord
    It does not speak of any other nation.
    If God is your Lord , then you belong this blessed nation. It’s that simple

    As a Christian living in an W. European nation (France) , I am thankful to be born here , not because it is what it is , but because it was God’s will for me , thankful and free wherever i am, be it in a non godly nation. I don’t care if this nation is blessed or not , or if it will be judged again , all these considerations are far away and are stranger considerations to me by now. Why should i care more about France than about Italy ?

    ALL things work out for those who love God and are called to bear Christ’s image. So where you live does not matter, or if it matters it’s for your own eternal good and to do God’s will.
    What God expects is to be real to Him and live His will.

  87. Thank you for sharing THE TRUTH!!! Please pray for me.

  88. Wow this is brilliant! The only other person I have heard speak in this forthright manner is Michael Howard of Malawi. And it is indeed time we woke up.
    Let’s learn to so fall in love with Jesus that He becomes our focus, our all. Then self will die and we will become obedient to the Kingdom Principles and then we will not only ENTER the Kingdom but we will also INHERIT it. Hallelujah – let’s encourage one another while there is yet time. Don’t let this world hold any attraction.

  89. matthew Nov 14th 2012

    There is a fair amount in this article that may true, and at any rate I agree with, but I don’t personally believe it is from God. It reads to me like people giving their own views.

  90. To Malcolm
    You included in your comments this
    “A Review of “Destined to Reign” by Joseph Prince
    You may wish to read this other article by Rev Philip Powell of Christian Witness Ministries
    Fresh Prince – Destined to Ruin
    Keep looking unto the Lord Jesus and follow Him only.
    John, as ever reporting.”

    I could not access what John shared, so I did some research myself concerning the recent book written by the WoF leader called Joseph Prince. And thanks for those links provided in looking at the tv schedules of the God TV, TBN, Daystar TV, Inspiration TV, CBN and the 700 Club, and Revelation TV. What is disturbing is that the Word of Faith false teachers and prophets abound on these “christian tv stations.” They control what is said and of course use them for their own purposes, especially in “fleecing the flock” by enticing christians to sow their financial seeds to them in order to receive God’s blessings. What is equally disturbing is how very few christian leaders who call themselves shepherds expose such false doctrines to people like myself with the impressional attitude that “what goes on does not concern me and play ignorance of not warning others christians about the shenanigans taking place using the christian church.”
    These are the two links worth reading and of taking note:
    1) http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/a-review-of-destined-to-reign-by-joseph-prince
    and 2) http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/church-issues/joseph-prince

    There is so much deception operating in the American church and I believe it is going from bad to worse. The Word of Faith Movement is part of that deception whereby its leaders use false teaching to build their empires and live luxurious lifestyles, and utter false prophecies coming from the demonic realm to keep their positions by their frequent programmes being broadcasted on so called christian tv stations.
    What do my brothers and sisters say about my comments?

  91. Andrew Nov 14th 2012

    Totally agree, Colin.

    It is a disaster – and worse – it is rampant now in the Third World church too.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  92. About 2 months ago I asked God what it would take to bring revival back to the USA. The answer seemed to be that America had to be “brought to its knees.” Did that mean financially, or through conviction of the Word of God, or through some other means? Then I was watching the news about Hurricane Sandy and on two separate occasions the news anchors said “the East Cost has been brought to its knees.” It was sad too see so much destruction but good in the hope of a great harvest to occur.

  93. My friend just started a blog on current issues related to the USA’s national struggles. Can some of you check it out to encourage him on? Thanks

    politicalluther.blogspot.com

  94. Sheeja John Nov 15th 2012

    Wolfgang and Mercy Simson wrote, ‘Secondly, we have cogent reasons to believe that there is a very real hope for a historic, mind-blowing turn around and a possible re-invention of America’

    Yeshua said, ‘Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?’ – Luke 18:8
    Who dare contradict Yeshua’s words?
    ————————————————————————————————–The Tribulation of Saints Vs the political scenario of America in particular and of the world in general….
    – ‘When the transgressors have reached their fullness, a king shall arise’ – Daniel 8:23. Have the transgressors reached their fullness?
    – ‘And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate’ – Daniel 9:27. Are you able to recognize the one who has come on the wing of abominations, to make desolate?
    – ‘He shall destroy the mighty and also the holy people’ – Daniel 8:24.
    – ‘He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, SHALL PERSECUTE (wear out) THE SAINTS of the Most High,…. Then the SAINTS SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS (Satan’s ministers) HAND for a time and times and half a time’. – (Daniel 7:25)
    The saints had been going through severe tribulation for almost 2 ½ decades, and the so-called churches were unaware and asleep. As written in the Scriptures, Satan through his ministers had been persecuting the saints of YAHWEH. He had also been corrupting those WHO DO WICKEDLY AGAINST THE COVENANT with FLATTERY, (Daniel 11:32) but the so-called churches slept through it. He promoted the wicked to the leadership positions and threw out the humble servants of YAHWEH and people said ‘amen’ to it. Now people are wondering.. ‘Why things are in a mess?’ It’s because you consented with the devil, and you were not awake and alert.
    Saints, now is the time to carry out great exploits.
    ————————————————————————————————–
    A thought aside……
    Could ‘a time and times and half a time’ mean ‘7+14+3 ½ years’ which equals to 24 ½ years. (Since 7 years equals one Sabbatical Year). The time period from the October of 1986 (when Pope John Paul II called for ‘ECUMENISM’ of all religions of the world) to the October of 2010 roughly, seemed to me the period of ‘Tribulation’ for the saints of God. The period following 2010 was/is basically the judgment of the world, with the ‘GREAT TRIBULATION’ following. The total lunar tetrads (red blood moon) over Jerusalem in 2014-15 hold great significance. If you read carefully Revelation 2:22 ( “Indeed, I will cast her into a sickbed and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds) and Revelation 3:10 that states ( “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth); you will realize that there is a difference between the ‘Tribulation of the saint’ and the ‘Great Tribulation’ of the world. The saints of YAHWEH do not go through the ‘Great Tribulation’, which is a time of testing for ALL who dwell on the earth. Rather, they are kept from it; but those who were law breakers/covenant breakers are thrown into it.

  95. The term “time and times and half a time” is usually seen as representing 3 and a half years – which fits in with other time periods mentioned in relation to the latter part of the end times that are expressed in days and months:

    42 months
    1260 days.

    I think this view seems to be more likely.

  96. Andrew Nov 15th 2012

    Please, my friends, do NOT turn this into a discussion of End-time theories.

    Wildly off topic.

    Thanks so much.

    -Andrew

  97. I’ve just read what appears to be the entire article at the link provided above by Todd,

    http://whileweslept.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/a-response-to-the-our-dear-america.pdf

    I say Amen…

    I believe this is the Lord’s Heart…

    I for one say,

    “Lord, here am I, send me, link me with others who have this on their hearts, in my community, in my city, in my nation, in my world, for Your Glory, remove from me everything which hinders Your Kingdom being manifest through me and through us all who know You, come Lord Jesus and take Your place, bring what You long for, an expression of Yourself (the Godhead – the Unity of the Godhead) here on earth in the hearts of Your People, in our unity one with another, bring trust where there is no trust, bring unity (in the Spirit) where there is no unity, Come Lord Jesus and take Your Place, remove religion from its throne, replace Jesus back on the throne in our hearts – where He was when we were saved – give us back our first love for You Lord which we have lost, give it to me Lord and all who know You and let us work together for the furtherance of Your Kingdom, in the hearts and lives of those who know You and of those who are coming to know You, have mercy on us Lord and let us see how far we (Your People) have fallen – this is why Judgement needs to begin in the Household of God – we are the example for all looking on – for all who are thinking or contemplating investigating the claims and ways of Jesus – the Jesus who is God in human flesh – Praise You Lord, take control of Your Body and enable us to line ourselves up under You in the place and in the position which You have appointed for us, in humility and “underneathness” let us lift up the work of God in our generation, Thank You Lord, I am encouraged, Come Lord Jesus and take Your place, in Jesus Name I pray, remove pride from Your People, remove pride from me, remove rebellion from me and replace it with submission, Thank You Lord, Glorify Your Name in all the earth, I have lost the plot, give me and all Your People who have lost the plot fresh revelation of Your ways and Your plans on earth, Thank You Jesus, Thank You Father, Thank You Holy Spirit, Thank You Lord, in Jesus Name, Amen”…

    Love in the Lord,

    Andrew

  98. Charles Nov 15th 2012

    Re: “Our dear America, Part 2

    Amen & Amen! There is no other way than complete and unadulterated repentance (both individually and nationally) for our almost total disobedience of Yahweh’s laws and instructions. How much judgment must we have placed upon us before we get the message?

    Charles

  99. DeWayne Nov 15th 2012

    There is now an email making the rounds entitled:
    Subject: GERMAN MAN SPEAKS TO AMERICA – WOW – A spiritual spanking – well deserved.

    A voice from Germany…to us in America. It’s always so much easier to see reality from the outside then when you are under it. This Man is speaking Truth to America from God. I wish I could send this to every spiritual leader in this country.

    Then continuing:
    ———————————————————-
    OUR DEAR AMERICA – Where do you go From Here?
    by Wolfgang and Mercy Simson.

    Today, Obama has been re-elected; all the efforts of many Christian leaders, prayer movements, “prophets” and “concerned Americans” who have lobbied, written appeals, articles, books, letters – some have even done films – to warn not to vote for him have come to nothing. Many of them have behaved as if the future of the Kingdom of God is at stake. Well, it is not.
    ———————————————————-

    The German message is right on in speaking to those obedient and faithful, however nothing will save this land, nation, or government (or earth), or those that revolt against and reject the Lord God.

    Our immediate concern needs be that Satan is making inroads (into) and destroying the church, with false teachers, prophets, and antichrist’s, leading all they might astray. Satan even now using this deliberate misleading, charging it is the work of church/religion, and those that call themselves (Christian, Jewish, Muslim)… these are all (evil) religions and misled peoples.

    God has never set aside a land as righteous, instead a people to remain righteous within a land. God did not set aside America, it was a people faithful and obedient within covenant whom God set aside. It is with these that He established a works in His will and for His purpose… and for this it was He who gave some to be… leaders.

    We need clean our own house, before bombing anothers, I strongly encourage Eph 5:11-12 “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Especially true among the lesser of two evils… in case anyone believes good can come out of evil.

  100. DeWayne Nov 15th 2012

    Sheejah John
    Re-Daniel Dan 9:27 “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

    This could also be read as on a wing (edge/border area) of a sanctuary/sanctified place, and on or in this wing ‘of the temple’, not only is ‘temple’ not found, but reading the original Greek makes one wonder who came up with the entire English verse translation.

    After the first temple was destroyed, the people established an alter for sacrifice in a (sanctified or sanctuary place), before the second temple building was even begun. What remains today in remnant part is Herods temple, the book of geneology required beyond this for an Old Testament temple were destroyed.

    Read some of the original Greek which in English translation denegrates Ishmael, also the figurative verses about Sarah and Hagar symbolically concerning salvation. Sometimes it really makes good sense following the admonishion to test everything against the word of God, going to the original language is a also good idea. Thankfully for people of little intelligence as myself, we may depend on assurance that the word is spiritually discerned.

  101. Pilgrim Nov 15th 2012

    The sad part is that none of this is new, or particularly remarkable, and the restating of the facts will not change anything. Only God can change hearts. That, I believe, is why He will revive us once more. We (collectively) are too bound in sin to even appreciate the danger we are in.
    Do you constantly hunger and thirst for more of Him and His righteousness? Will nothing else satisfy you? Will you give Him no rest until He answers? He will satisfy your longing if you continue to seek Him.It is His promise. Stop looking to others and listening to their opinions. Believe God. He will do what He tells us He will do. His word is true. Don’t give up on Him and He will not give up on you. It was never about America, or another country. Don’t let national pride be a stumbling block or idol, or anything else. He must be first and foremost in all things. He cares about you.He did not hesitate or spare His own Son. He deserves your all in return .

  102. All this talk and still no hard hitting sermons from the pulpit on sin and the consequences of it. If the Epistles were read from the pulpit instead of gifted speakers speaking of love and grace, the collection plates would be a lot less full and the churches a lot more emplty because people would not be allowed to feel comfortable in their sins.

    See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil and evil passes because good men say nothing…. To not confront is to condone.

  103. Andrew Nov 15th 2012

    Well said, Sandra.

    -Andrew

  104. sharon Nov 15th 2012

    “Would there be any faith left”, was the admonition given for the end times. So why be shocked when we see prophecy fulfilled.
    Look up and lift up your heads, your redemption draws near.
    There was no big world wide revival before the flood, or before the fall of babel.
    Go into your dwelling and close the door until the time of indignation be over-passed.
    Our part is to keep our wedding garment clean, oil in our lamps and be ready. Repentance is the word of warning.
    Preach the Word and Praise the Lord.

  105. Sheeja John Nov 15th 2012

    Thank you Dewayne for elaborating on the word ‘wing’. Let us stick to the topic.

  106. Andrew Nov 15th 2012

    An outpouring upon “all flesh” is prophesied clearly for the Last Days. Just like David Wilkerson, I will continue to believe for such a thing.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  107. Marilyn Crow Nov 15th 2012

    Marilyn C of Oz.
    I have been appreciating the discussion, especially Tim & Br. Paul`s on the topic of `a nation cannot be Christian.` I agree withTim but thought Br. Paul inquired gracefully.
    This subject brings about the final clearing of the `muddy waters` that the Body of Christ is going through -learning to discern the difference between Christ`s purposes for the Body of Christ, Israel & the Nations.
    Many quotes in this discussion are related to Israel. eg, the kingdom – That kingdom or Christ`s rule He was refering to related to the Davidic Kingdom in the Millenium for Israel.

    The other part of the discussion concerns the Body of Christ.
    The Lord Jesus Christ is maturing His Body which He has done over 2000 years. We cannot measure it by meetings, conferences, speakers, leaders etc etc.
    The true Body of Christ is made up of humble people who look to the Lord to change them, & reach out to encourage & mentor others. I believe the true, hidden Body of Christ is growing to maturity under the mighty hand of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Eph. 4: 11 – 16)

  108. New Jerusalem Nov 15th 2012

    AMEN to the “last hurrah”!

    The end of the Kingdom of Darkness is VICTORY ! We do not go hide in the caves wimpering like beaten puppies. The HOLY SPIRIT, THE GLORY OF GOD, will be FLOODING THE WHOLE EARTH AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH!

    The word ALL means just that……ALL!

    Luk 3:6 – And ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God.

    Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, SAITH GOD, I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT upon ALL FLESH;…………….

    Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT upon ALL FLESH;……….

  109. Sheeja John Nov 15th 2012

    Last Days…..
    – God who at various times and in different ways spoke…….has IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken to us by His Son. – Hebrews 1:2
    – But Peter standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, ……..”But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass IN THE LAST DAYS….’.- Acts 2:14-17

    Both in the above two verses ‘the last days’ refer to the time period of Yeshua Ha Mashiach walking on this earth uptill now. And indeed He has poured out His Holy Spirit on all flesh (all nations, tribe and tongue).

  110. New Jerusalem Nov 15th 2012

    Maybe that is why there is so little JOY in people’s lives.

    Do you really believe that THIS LAST 2,000 YEARS is ALL that God has to GIVE US?

    The Pentecost at Mt. Sinai was only a “taste” of the Holy Spirit.
    The Pentecost of Acts was only the DOWN PAYMENT of the COMPLETE FULLNESS OF THE GLORY!

    Eph 1:13 KJV – In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE,

    Eph 1:14 KJV – Which is the EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    EARNEST
    1) an earnest

    a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that THE FULL AMOUNT WILL SUSEQUENTLY BE PAID.

  111. Pilgrim Nov 15th 2012

    I know what it is to pray fervently for my own country. It is really, I believe , about self interest. It is about what we know and love. Family, friends, a way of life.That with which we are familiar and comfortable . If we were born somewhere else we would feel the same about that place.
    Once when I was praying about my country , I was given a vision – a large ship, the stern of which loomed high above me , unreachable somehow. I was in a lifeboat in the water seeming quite insignificant , unable to do anything about the ship, but only able to perform actions within or about the lifeboat or reach those who were in the water. The Spirit was saying to me “Never mind about the big ship – that is mine. Your job is to man the lifeboat.”
    We can only act within our sphere of influence physically, but we can also pray.Don’t take on a burden which is too big for you. Fight your own ‘skirmishes ‘ so to speak , but remember, the battle is the Lord’s.
    I have learned to live within those parameters, like any good soldier must.If the Lord wishes to promote me to ‘bigger things’ He will equip me accordingly, but promotion bepends on how I am doing with what I have . Seriously , I do not see a lot of promotion material about at the moment. Mostly it is self-promotion.
    The organised church is week and ineffective and is not doing what was asked of it but has its own ‘programmes’.God is not interested in that structure and its ambitions. It is irrelevant and even dangerous. God is forming His own ‘body’- the called- which consists of those who are truly spirit led , who are not interested in earthly structures but building God’s spiritual Kingdom here on earth. Put aside your earthly ambitions..Humble yourself before God and seek only to do what He bids you.and do it with all your might. Leave the ‘bigger picture’ to Him and do all for His Glory.

  112. New Jerusalem Nov 15th 2012

    oops….misspelled SUBSEQUENTLY on the last sentence.

  113. Elmarie Bouwer Nov 15th 2012

    Yes!Yes!Yes! Amen and amen.

  114. DeWayne Nov 15th 2012

    In the last days some say that (all) of the people-Israel will be brought into eternal Israel forever, but this cannot be, the OT describes some God has already rejected. Many also as told in Ezek 20:38 will be purged because they rebel and revolt against God. These later although gathered from where scattered, will not enter Israel.

    The (all) of people-Israel that are brought into eternal Israel or Promised Land, then are the upright and righteous in faith that remained obedient to God.

    Luke 3:4-6 (all mankind/flesh will see God’s salvation) needs be compared with the origin found in Isa 40:3-5 (and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed).

    Many things that (all) or some will see, often is followed with “then you will know I am the Lord.” There comes a time however that eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, will not benefit from what they see and hear belatedly.

    Also it cannot be denied that in the last days as told in Matt 24:12, the love of most will grow cold. Like Andrew, despite this I am looking almost desperately for a great awakening (within the church). And this necessary due to a vast influx of false teacher, prophet, and antichrist’s having put many immature (and apparently some mature) Christians spiritually asleep.

  115. I have thought and prayed a lot more about this message over the last couple days and I now realize what really bothers me about it. My former Pastor that went to be with the Lord, and whose ministry I was saved under used to be very careful to lovingly let people know when they had a problem with a person they should follow the Biblical principle of going to that person alone and talking to them, and then go with another if they don’t listen, etc….etc… He also would discourage any one from using blanket statements to categorize any group of people such as statements like “THEY always do this or that” etc… He would ask me “Who are they?” and go on to tell me I should be specific or if I could not be specific or I had a problem with someone I should go to them personally. I learned he was right. (Matthew 18:15-17; Luke 17:3)
    I believe in that principle. I think that the authors of this article need to learn it. It is obvious to me in reading it again that they personally have a problem with some American Christians they met at some time, Which I am guessing at most most would be a hundred people or so people they are personally acquainted with? how many do they know out of how many American Christians in our country?
    They make this statement,
    ” It is the screaming testimony of
    the lives of MOST Christians that we have met in the US, who live
    an ignorant, shameless, or even violent disobedience, in regards
    to almost all royal commands of Jesus the King. They are
    ignorantly or even deliberately trespassing, with their heads kept
    high, especially in the key areas of sex, money, power and church.
    Yes, we know a few precious exceptions”

    A FEW exceptions? How many American Christians do they know?

    They feel that since they said they “love America” and have our flag in their office they have the right to “be blunt” and tell us what they think of us. I don’t agree. It does not come across as a loving message to me or as being said in love. It sounds like criticism. I don’t sense this is a prophetic word or from the Lord at all but their own offended hearts responding to meeting some american Christians they did not particularly like.
    Then they took that experience and made a blanket statement applying to to ALL American Christians,
    In one place they list what they see as American Christians sins one of which is,
    “facebooking- voicing your opinion without being asked”
    I am not sure what they meant by that since this was the first time I have ever heard giving your opinion is a sin?, but by their own definition they sinned by writing this article.I am not aware an American asked their opinion? Andrew is from New Zealand.

    Remember what Paul wrote when some Christians got together and started “being blunt” pointing out the sins of other believers? In the following example Paul did not say they were not sins at all, but he did say that they were wrong to be going around gossiping and slandering them to the whole church.
    Titus 1:12 “One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;”

    The authors of this need to go personally to those selfish greedy american christian they met and have a problem with and personally and lovingly talk to them, not go on a public forum and post it for the whole church to read. That is not a prophetic word to the American church it is a personal opinion by an offended couple. I know many Godly American Christians that do not fit what the authors say about us. And as an American Christian I am not convicted but offended. I am not going to pretend I am spiritual and thank the author for their convicting words.
    Tom

  116. Michelle Nov 15th 2012

    this is why Judgement needs to begin in the Household of God – we are the example for all looking on – for all who are thinking or contemplating investigating the claims and ways of Jesus – the Jesus who is God in human flesh –

    **********************

    Did the Father sacrifice himself, or did He sacrifice His only begotten Son. Look at Ezekiels Temple Vision.

    There is an altar of sacrifice, where Jesus is sacrificed and becomes our High Priest in order to enter into the Holy of Holies where the Father (The God above all gods dwells). We are reconcilled to God, to Jesus’ Father.

    _____________________

    Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    ___________________

    The Throne of Grace is where Jesus’ Father, His God dwells. That is Who we approach to find grace to help in time of need.

    ___________________

    1Peter 1:
    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    ____________________

    The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus is sat at His right hand side. With all authority and power FROM God. But Jesus is not His Father.

  117. In 2001 America was attacked in no uncertain terms on 9/11. In 2004 David Wilkerson gave an unforgettable message called “A Call to Anguish” a message about Nehemiah who had a heart for God’s Jerusalem and passionately rebuilt it in record time. Nehemiah was moved by the situation that he wept for days and then took action and stayed on course and rebuilt the walls. After 9/11, God slowly and gradually has called out and nurtured “7000” priests who have come out and have not bowed their knee to Baal Last count their was supposedly 150 million Christians in America. In the Black community alone 43-47% identify themselves as born-again. For sure, since 9/11 that “7000” was supposed to grow and effect the society. It didn’t. The “Potential 7000” never became part of the “7000”. So now the country has been judged with “Judicial Blindness” so the majority cannot tell right from wrong. The majority has turned it’s back on the founding principles of America and has embraced abortion, homosexuality and a political party that booed The God of the Universe “3′ times and then under political pressure “had” to put God back into the “platform”. Booed three times, yet many Christians didn’t see anything wrong with that symbolism. The Republicans if anything are at least not as brazen, their more discreet, they atleast honor God with their lips. LoL. America’s “Non-7000” is getting what it deserves a Godless, God Hating government, (unless it’s a “False God” of course), they love and adore those gods. I predict “Sandy” was the opening act for what God has in store for His “Non-7000” Church in the latter days of 2012. And let’s not forget the “40Th” anniversary of Roe Vs Wade on January 22, 2013 I wonder what God has got cooking for that day that many see as a Liberating land mark. The good thing is during this time many will flee to join the “7000” as America is called to account as they see the “wise” choices they have made turning to gravel in their mouths. Then the next legitimate point is how many of those that will actually survive to get over with the “7000” who actually strive to live underneath the shadow of the Almighty that’s another question to think about. With all the “Shakings” they might be launched into eternity still grasping that Lamb Chop!

    The Spiritual Life and Intensity of the “Non-7000”

    Amos7:4 How terrible it will be for you who sprawl on ivory beds surrounded with luxury, eating the meat of tender lambs and choice calves. 5You sing idle songs to the sound of the harp, and you fancy yourselves to be great musicians, as King David was. 6You drink wine by the bowlful, and you perfume yourselves with exotic fragrances, caring nothing at all that your nation is going to ruin. 7Therefore, you will be the first to be led away as captives. Suddenly, all your parties will end.

  118. Teshuva Nov 15th 2012

    Amen New Jerusalem!!
    Lack of joy because we read the scriptures with the eyes of flesh or the eyes of religion, instead of with the eyes of God.
    Religion encourages a VICTIM mentality. God encourages a VICTOR mentality.

    VICTIMS complain because they live by what is seen. VICTORS praise because they live by what is unseen. VICTIMS perish in the wilderness. VICTORS inherit the Promised Land. VICTIMS go into great detail describing the giants that opposed them. VICTORS go into great detail describing the Faithfulness of their God. VICTIMS see defeat before the battle ever occurs. VICTORS see victory before the battle ever occurs. VICTIMS walk by fear because they walk by sight. VICTORS walk by faith because they do not walk by sight.
    We lift up problems instead of lifting up Yeshua who made an open show of all principalities and powers.
    When the Son of Man comes will He find faith?

  119. Well said Teshuva!! Add to ‘Faith’, the word “Trust”. There is natural ‘trust’ and spiritual ‘trust’. Take your pick.

  120. Michelle…

    Joh 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    Joh 1:14-16 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Rev 19:11-16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    Heb 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    ***

    These scriptures explain to me that the the Word of God is Lord Jesus, that the Word of God was with God, and is God, that He (Lord Jesus, the Word of God) spoke all things into being, creation, and that is by the “..word of His (Lord Jesus, the Word of God) power..” that all creation is still held together.

    I may not understand how ‘Almighty God’ can be triune, Father, Son (Lord Jesus) and the Holy Spirit, but I believe it through faith, and the witness of the Holy Spirit dwelling in me.

    In His love,
    Roger

  121. Michelle, ….as a postscript to my above comment:

    There is a teaching today that explains that where Lord Jesus is described as ‘begotten Son of God’ means that He was created.

    This teaching denies the deity of Lord Jesus, and also denies that He is eternal, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

    To believe that Lord Jesus was created is to deny that He is God.

    In Christ Jesus our risen Lord,
    Roger

  122. Michelle Nov 15th 2012

    Let me ask.

    Is there not a confusion in prayer with those who think that Jesus is God above all Gods?

    When do you talk to Jesus and then when do you talk with His Father, or do you think that now that Jesus is ascended into heaven that somehow they both morphed into one thing?

    That is not true because Stephen looked up and saw Jesus at the right hand side of God.

    If there is a confusion about this, then there is a confusion about coming to the throne of grace. Jesus’ Father is above all. He is God above all. If He then is being sidelined in prayer and worship then the Holy Spirit is also being hindered from coming upon the Body of Christ.

    We are to ask God (Jesus’ Father) in the name of Jesus for the Holy Spirit.

    Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    I will stand on what Jesus himself said..

    Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    When He comes back to take me home, (which no one knows the hour or the day except Jesus’ Father in heaven) then I will bow before Jesus as my Lord and Savior, Bridesgroom and Truest Friend. But I will also say, I worship the Father, Our God above all. Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be his name. Just like Jesus does.

  123. Dear Wolfgang and Mercy Simson,

    Thank you for your words and offer to assist.

    You call the election of Obama and the assumed internal deterioration of America “prophetic” and suggest that calling on God to change things for the better something you feel “God just won’t do”.

    You continue to suggest that America is being chastened via Obama’s reelection for our sins and that a national crisis is the only way to bring America back to world greatness.

    I wonder which is your position, “America falls per prophetic dictate and asking God to reverse the fall is asking God to do something he just won’t do”, or “America falls due to her sin and repentance will restore the grace of God to our nation”. Which is your position?

    I would really like a copy of Der Spiegel with the cover picture of Uncle Sam in bed, titled, The American Patient: The decline of a Great Nation.

    Can you tell me how to get a copy?

    Thank you

    Mr. Joda Collins
    4033 Buttonbush Dr.
    Miton, FL 32583
    850 981-3355
    http://www.JodaCollins.com
    Email: [email protected]

  124. hi there to all those on the four corners of the earth… My husband and I are senior pastors of a church… and we deal with issues “like” these among others, on a continual basis..!.MY HEART BREAKS…. WHEN I SEE THE RESPONSES OF SO MANY out there???!!!! THAT JUST SIMPLY… “DISAGREE!!!! ….. you see??? everyone has to push their own opinion!!! everyone has to have their say!!! and that’s why the church and the nations ARE in the state they are in!!! WE ALWAYS WANNA BE “RIGHT”…. so we argue the WORD OF GOD! Everyone has to know it better than someone else!! There is NO submissive attitude anymore.. of one brother to another…….!!!!!!! SO “FEW” QUIET LISTENERS….Help us DEAR FATHER GOD!!! well… with our church. (and we do have amazing beautiful people– that “don’t compromise”) yes – not perfect, but truly walking a walk. ( and maybe to those that are walking the walk too…… relax… and well done… so in other words….. in what i say…. if the shoe doesn’t fit.. don’t wear it..). So…..we travel to many different countries… tribes and nations .. both outreaches and mission work……. and see the “SAD state” of it all….THE LOST…. THE POOR … THE SICK….. AND THE NEEDY.!… meanwhile…BACK IN OUR CHURCHES…. many are doing what is “right” in his own eyes, and proving who is right… and “baby christians ” are out there… arguing with mature ones..etc etc etc… everyone getting their point across….and the TRUE Gospel doesn’t get preached…and the unreached don’t get reached… there is no accountability in the church…. there is no responsibility.. there is no commitment to living RIGHTEOUS, GODLY SEPARATED LIVES…!!!! AND THAT’S WHY PEOPLE ARGUE…. IT JUST JUSTIFIES THEM…. “SELF” IS SO BIG.. . “Christians” just want to be “motivated”… or have their ears “tickled”…… but a “rebuke’??? no.. that’s just not in God’s character they say!!!! well…. which god ???? FOR “”GOD” CHASTISES THOSE HE LOVES….. TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS ARE REAL… SO.
    for all those that argue … can you say you are truly living a righteous life??? ohhh it’s by grace you say???? hhmmmm so “Grace” has become the “word” for “slack??” for “compromise’??? WOW…. I don’t see that in the Scriptures…. and how many people have you brought to the Lord??? (AND I DONT MEAN TAKING THEM TO CONFERENCES..??) and how many have you discipled ??? How many have you walked with .. that extra mile??? you see ?? the time is not to argue… but to look around and say… WOW…. if the church is in such a mess then how can I be of assistance… and how can I make a difference?? and how can I be an answer to a broken down society and if Christianity has become so wishy-washy around me.. BE IT IN AMERICA OR WHERE EVER… then I have to “stand up”…. and be a helping hand… reaching out as we are told to do… walk as Jesus walked.. talk as Jesus Talked… love unconditonally as Jesus Loves….. .we do have the answer .. yes….JESUS CHRIST.. YESHUA…!!!… AND THAT’S MORE IMPORTANT, THAN TO HAVE our LITTLE SAY……BECAUSE THAT’S JUST THE PROBLEM…. TOO much talking and no doing… too many “cooks”…. no humility and no concept of humbly wanting to learn and do and SHINE JESUS WHERE HE IS NEEDED .. but everyone wanting to ‘teach.’ … and some just plainly walking a Christian walk… thinking they very mature.. yet are still in diapers.. because of attitude.. …. BUT INSTEAD WE WILL ARGUE WITH A MAN THAT CARRIES A BURDEN FOR A NATION ….. OR FOR THE CHURCH.. FOR RIGHTEOUS LIVING… or is JUST PLAINLY SAYING.. BE A TRUE FOLLOWER OF CHRIST, AND REPRESENT HIM IN A PROPER MANNER.. you see??? when you are looking at the poorest of poor…. at the devastation and degradation of many places…..at the sick and the needy that live throughout this world.. AT THE APPROXIMATE 6800 “PEOPLE GROUPS” (+_3.4 BILLION PEOPLE ) THAT HAVE NEVER HEARD THE GOSPEL…..when you are looking AT THE ABUSE IN THIS WORLD….. .then there is no time to say…. “I dont agree””” !! .. IS THERE TRUTH IN WHAT WOLFGANG SAYS??? ABSOLUTELY… WE SEE IT ALL AROUND US……. SO HOW CAN WE POINT A FINGER AT HIM??? WHEN 3 ARE POINTING BACK AT US??????? WHEN ALL HE SPEAKS IS “LIVE AN UNCOMPROMISED LIFE!!!! JOHN THE BAPTIST ALSO CRIED OUT….. AND ???… AND WHAT ABOUT – “JUST LIKE IN THE DAYS OF NOAH”???? Maybe, what many that sit in the comfort of their materialism, their technologies…. comfy churches, financial gain etc . need- is to… open your eyes… look around you at the state the world is in… and ask “YOURSELF” the question…. HAS THE CHURCH BEEN EFFECTIVE??? HAS THE “CHURCH” (of which you are part of if you say you are a Christian..)… HAS THE CHURCH DONE AND IS DOING WHAT IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING???
    For all those people like “kade and Tim..and and… many others….. . honestly open your eyes……
    and if someone raises up an Issue of the “bad state of the church”…. don’t oppose…. because for all those that say ” don’t lash out and judge”… you are doing the exact, just in reverse….. so……… Wolfgang….. YOUR HEART BEATS A WARNING….. SO DID THE PROPHETS OF OLD….. AND THE PEOPLE NEVER LISTENED….. …… :…. BODY OF CHRIST… LETS … STOP THE >>>>
    I-KNOW-BETTER” syndrome….
    THE POINT OF THE FINGER, TO THOSE THAT ARE A VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS….LETS STOP WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT PUFFS UP… lets concentrate on the Kingdom of God rather than our belief systems of ” cooshy Christianity”
    LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE…. AND JUST “LOVE ONE ANOTHER… AS THE SCRIPTURE SAYS…. “THEY WILL KNOW THAT WE ARE CHRISTIANS BY OUR LOVE”…… AND LOVE CONQUERS ALL….. SO… BE SLOW TO SPEAK…. SLOW TO ANGER…. BUT QUICK TO HEAR…. …. PRAY rather than “STATE YOUR CASE”… and be a part of THE SOLUTION rather than yet another stumbling block….. MEEKNESS IS NOT WEAKNESS… AND HUMILITY IS NOT PASSIVITY!!!! MAY THE GRACE AND MERCY OF OUR LORD HELP AND TEACH US… …AND MAY WE LOVE AS GOD LOVES…. FOR HE SO LOVED THE WORLD … THAT IT ‘COST’ HIM (not wishy-washy) …AND HE GAVE HIS BELOVED SON…
    I SAY…..
    BODY OF CHRIST??? OUR WORLD NEEDS JESUS… only HE can heal and bring true reconciliation.
    …..2CHRON 7 v 14 … “if my people who are called by MY NAME will HUMBLE themselves and pray… then I will hear from heaven and HEAL THEIR LAND…… …. where there is PRAYER.. there”s no room for debate… what don’t we understand about that!!!!!!.
    MAY YOUR KINGDOM COME OH LORD…….ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN….. and FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY… IN THIS TIME AND IN THIS HOUR… forgive us for our “self-righteousness”….and MAY WE HEAR..”WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS SAYING TO “THE CHURCH…”

  125. Michelle,

    Jesus is God as much as the Father is God. Whoever has seen Jesus has seen the Father, Jesus said, because they are equal.

    “Jesus saith unto him, ‘Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou[then, Shew us the Father?'” (John 14:9 KJV)

    The gospel of John reveals the full deity of Christ like no other book in the Bible. It exalts Jesus as God.

    God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one. They are all equally God. The Father is not above the Son, nor is the Holy Spirit beneath Jesus.

    Hope this helps.

  126. Michelle Nov 15th 2012

    Amy,

    Look farther down that chapter.

    Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    Jesus has all the power and authority FROM God. That does not mean he is His Father. Nor equal to His Father.

    There is one mediator between God and man. Jesus intercedes for us to His Father.

    Jesus showed us his Father because he had His spirit in him. That does not make Jesus equal to his Father.

  127. Michelle,

    The three-in-one Godhead is difficult for us to comprehend. For centuries people have tried to explain it. It’s hard to wrap our minds around but true nonetheless.

    In John 14:10-11, Jesus said He and the Father are one. In saying His father is greater (v. 28), He is exalting Him. In telling Philip that whoever has seen Him has seen the Father, He is telling us who He is — God in the flesh, the One the Father said to hear in Matthew 17:5 and whose words will judge the world (John 12:48).

    Jesus is eternal, without beginning or end. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Jesus is no less God than the Father or the Holy Spirit. They are all equally God.

    The entire universe was created through Jesus. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3) It was Jesus doing the creating in Genesis. There are some Christians who don’t know this.

    Jesus was hated by the Jews because He made Himself equal to God.

    “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18 KJV)

    Anyway, I don’t wish to debate this, plus, it’s off topic.

    The Lord bless you!

  128. There once was a babe, he grew up to be a man, he had a son, his son had a son, he became was a babe, father and grandfather. Goodness. That person was a 3 in one deal. We are still in 3 dimention on earth.

    Math exercise: 1 + 1 + ! = 3…..but, 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 (one). Bad similies I know. But as long as we’re on this earth, these bad examples are fine for me.

  129. Andrew Nov 15th 2012

    Nitas – I really liked your post.

    Some very “unpopular” thoughts – but very true!!

    Bless you,

    Andrew

  130. Barnabas Nov 15th 2012

    So sad that any voices of disagreement are treated with a tirade of many words. It would appear the voice of ‘children’ are to be silenced by the ‘mature’ chosen few. An attitude that is clearly questionable and speaks for itself. When discernment is rejected then alarm bells should ring. No worries I’ll continue to support the widow, the orphan, homeless and the voiceless, despite my apparent disgraceful position.

  131. Barnabas Nov 15th 2012

    I agree fully with Tom and would seek the unforced rhythm of grace that his post imparts.

  132. DeWayne Nov 15th 2012

    Michelle and Amy discussing God, is a true step to understanding.

    I have been part of church’s where the bible was preached word for word, Sunday after Sunday, and before this was Sunday School ”study’, where one person spent perhaps an hour (teaching) everyone what he had learned… perhaps from denominational accepted materials.

    This ‘Revival School’ site to me is an excellent example of what is needed instead, where many inputting may be called arguing, but in truth explaining what (they) have learned… and perhaps yet needs testing in this process of ‘let us all reason together’.

    It is true most scholar and theologian teach a monotheistic God, perhaps 1 Cor 15:28 (all in all) does indicate a rejoining of Trinity to One, I believe this. Certainly as body, spirit, and soul, my personage is yet one person… although having trouble conceding this (me) being the image of the true God.

    Once the administration gifts have done their part, it is time for someone mature in the Lord to see that ‘spiritual milk’ is ended, with instead beginning real unity and maturity… as each (of the entire body of gifts) do their part.

    I am assured that if on something we disagree, God will show what He has approved, and if we only think we know something, we do not know as we should. So, let us stop (burning) out one leader at a time, and prayfully instead each take a turn.

  133. Richard Savage Nov 15th 2012

    It’s time, folks. Time to put down angst about the election, time to halt the disputations … time to turn around.

    Israel, today, began a retaliation against missile attacks from Hamas. War in the Heavenlies has flared again, and is being played out in the Middle East.

    How big this conflict becomes, or where it takes us all in the coming days I don’t know.

    Unusually, I’m going to offer a scripture here: Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse.

    The basis of the Abrahamic Covenant.

    Time to turn toward Israel and be a blessing, in whatever way the Holy Spirit leads. Pick up the conversations when one can truly say, I’ve been a blessing to Israel. The Lord Jesus will bless you through Israel, as He is the greatest blessing through them.

    May the Lord be with us all in these coming days and weeks.

  134. KellyS Nov 15th 2012

    Thank you for this message! It’s what God’s been teaching me since the election. I’m a youth leader at my church, and my pastor and I have been tag-team teaching each week trying to get the message of repentence accross to our youth. All of them are christians, but there really is a need for the church to be 24/7 God-seekers. How else is the world, (our nation) supposed to turn back to Almighty God if His “people” aren’t shining His Light?

  135. DeWayne Nov 15th 2012

    Sheeja John
    I keep going back to your post way earlier, every time raising a another question. Could you do me a great favor, and tell me who those are that ‘come out of the Great Tribulation’, you appear to have studied this which is of special interest to myself.

  136. Richard Savage
    I am sorry for seriously disagreeing with you about the State of Israel. Among important false teaching today accepted by our Christian church’s, at least here in America, is this blessing and curses given not to a land or political nation or race, but to a Hebrew man faithful to God called Abram… thank you for identifying it as an ‘Abrahamic Covenant’ or more accurately Abramic Covenant.

    If you were told this ME condition existed way back 70-80 years ago, and the church in this nation (prideful of free press and media) only recently hearing of it, might this be considered a failure of our leaders, most important our spiritual leaders?

    Click on my name, see if you can find an un Godly flaw in my study of both scriptual and historic truth. It is truely strange times when a Christian leader such as Carter can give warning, and the Christian denomination’s and most followers call him a liar.

  137. Barnabas Nov 16th 2012

    Maybe more head tilting is required http://www.doggieheadtilt.com/2012/11/

    Praying for Israel and Jerusalem even when not in the news. http://www.btselem.org/.

  138. Barnabas
    You are correct, this is the time to pray for Jerusalem, symbolic of Israel: http://youtu.be/Wim8JUeaL-E

  139. New Jerusalem Nov 16th 2012

    DeWayne….that is a very good point that you have brought up. An EXCELLENT point that has been overlooked or “twisted” to prove a traditional viewpoint.

    The promise God made in Genesis 12:3 was to a solitary MAN, not a nation.

    Gen 12:3a KJV – And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse HIM that curseth THEE………

    THEN THE REST OF THE VERSE says that ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH will be blessed!

    Gen12:3b and in thee shall ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH be blessed.

    AGAIN IN VERSE 2, GOD says “THOU shalt be a blessing”

    Gen 12:2 KJV – And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

  140. Barnabas Nov 16th 2012

    Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
    Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved
    No symbols the realities. A measure of position is our relationship to Christ, Israel and Jerusalem.

  141. I continue to come across some very vicious Obama-bashing from “Christians” with a lot of easily disproven allegations against him. Would similar attacks have been made against Mitt Romney if he’d won? Or would his faults (including following a false Jesus) be tolerated because his Republican politics are allegedly more in line with Christian ideals?

    Last night I heard a little more about the Christian-friendly record of the Republican Party. Maybe someone more familiar with US poltics can correct these claims if what I heard was wrong.
    Under a republican President:
    1) Prayer was outlawed in schools
    2) Roe vs Wade
    3) Removal of 10 commandments from courthouses

    Ironically these are some of the main complaints I hear from Christians about their nation – and yet the Republican party are still often seen as the party of choice by Christians.

    Is there any clearer indication that it is futile to seek or expect political solutions or put trust in ANY party?

    Is there any clearer indication that any party should be trusted when it comes to “moral” or spiritual issues?

    Is there any clearer indication of the need to decide which Kingdom we belong to and which King is deserving of our trust and allegiance?

  142. New Jerusalem Nov 16th 2012

    A person’s POSITION in the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven is not measured by any other relationship but ONE.

    The ONLY relationship that we are measured by is our relationship with Jesus Christ.

  143. Correction to above:
    “Is there any clearer indication that NO party should be trusted when it comes to “moral” or spiritual issues?”

  144. For Pastors –

    1 Corinthians 5: 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother (meaning someone who calls themselves a Christian) be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such a one is not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without, God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    I can remember about 15 years ago that when if someone was crossing the boundaries of God’s laws in the church body they were corrected and if they didn’t choose to change, they were asked to leave. And here is why:

    Sin = wrongdoing from selfishness/greed
    Wrongdoing unchecked from selfishness/greed = tolerance
    Tolerance of sin (wrongdoing that hurts outselves and others) = indifference
    Indifference of sin (wrongdoing) = lawlessness
    Lawlessness = boundary crossing of others and ourselves with no repercussions.

    And here we have the church and the world today….

    Unless the leaders take a stand and talk about what sin is and what the consequences of the particular sin is, people will not look at themselves because we all tend to see ourselves through rose colored glasses.

    When was the last time a pastors spoke of forgiveness by giving true examples and stories of reconciliation? How about what the consequences of premarital sex are in all of its ugly possible consequences, etc., etc. How about testamonies given by individual believers that encourage us? Haven’t seen that in a church for as long as I can remember now….

    Everyone wants the easy way of not rocking the boat and possibly losing friends through concerned correction, especially Pastors today. It is not easy to confront, but confront is what Jesus did and that was what got him crucified. He didn’t choose the easy way….

    Stop talking about what is wrong with the church and start doing the job you were called to do that takes courage and a back bone. We need real men like the history makers of the past who had to courage to take risks that made this a better world for all of us. We don’t need any more amateurs in the pulpit. Where are the knights in shining armour who are taking a stand?

  145. Barnabas Nov 16th 2012
  146. Barnabas Nov 16th 2012

    Relationship to Christ for Salvation. Relationship to Israel and Jerusalem give theological positions. So comment stands as written.

  147. Very good response Amy. An easy way to explain the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is to compare it with water that can be ice, vapour and rain. All different but of the same element. A father can also be a husband and brother as a mother can be a daughter and a sister.

  148. Brother Paul Nov 16th 2012

    Wow… talk about Christians attacking Christians!

    As I read through these comments I’m appalled and saddened by what I see and read.

    Where is the love of God that Paul talks about in 2 Cor 13, the famous ‘love chapter’? Tell me, why do we need non-Christians to attack us from without when we are so busy attacking each other from within?

    And over what? Over the dotting of the letter i and the crossing of the letter t – in other words – over the little things that are not really that important. Didn’t Jesus warn us about such things?

    Such an extravagant waste of time with such negative results – and isn’t that EXACTLY what the devil wants?

    Go back a few posts (you won’t have to go far) and you’ll see what I mean. Instead of working together to find a solution to the initial letter, much of this thread has become a personal attack zone.

    Perhaps that explains the real reason for the initial letter to be written and then posted here on this site.

    Just perhaps…

  149. Sheeja John Nov 16th 2012

    DeWayne,
    I will not discuss it here. There is a protocol I need to maintain. You can contact me @ [email protected] if you feel free to do so.
    Your queries will be answered.
    Is DeWayne your actual name? Many here operate under ‘titles’, as they are too afraid to reveal who they are. Kindly let me know you name.
    ————————————————————————————————–
    Unless YAHWEH reveals the distinction between the ‘Father’, ‘Son’ and the ‘Holy Spirit’, one cannot make the other understand. The eyes of their understanding needs to be opened by YAHWEH for them to see and know. Let them seek God for themselves.

  150. watchful Nov 16th 2012

    All have sinned and fallen short of the glory, Jews and Palestinians alike – and me/we too.

  151. Barnabas Nov 16th 2012

    Ephesians 4.1,2 NIV.  “As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.

  152. watchful Nov 16th 2012

    Amen, help us Jesus.

  153. ValleyAnt Nov 16th 2012

    Brother Paul and Tim, you are both right. Maybe a distinction between God’s judgments and the repercussions of sin need to be made. In the Bible, and in history, we are shown both that individuals can suffer for their own sins (judgment) and that people and nations can suffer for the sins of others (repercussion):

    1. Ananias and Sapphira are good examples of judgment (from God) on individuals.

    2. The sins of the fathers passed down is a good example of repercussion on one or many because of the sins of one or a few or many. This principle of others’ sins causing innocent people to suffer comes into play when the sins concern those in leadership: parents, ministers, government, etc. In 1Chron. 21 and 2Sam. 24, David sinned alone, yet he suffered no judgment for it; rather at least 70,000 innocent people suffered (died) as a result. The same, today, even more innocent people die (especially) because our leaders are in sin. This is why James tells us to reject the urge to become leaders/teachers/people who are over others as leaders can and do determine blessings and repercussions on others and so will face greater judgment. It’s also why David said in 2Chron. 23, “He who rules over men MUST BE JUST, ruling in the fear of God” (ruling in view of accountability and judgment before God). Amen.

    So, God’s judgment for individual sin comes to individuals but the repercussions for the sins of others, especially the sins of those set in charge over others, comes to everyone.

    Andrew, you mentioned nationalism and said, “Since when is Christianity about sending troops to kill people?” The Lord told His followers to take the gospel to all, but He had to remind Peter by way of a trance and the salvation of Gentiles that no nation is special to God or is God’s nation. In Acts 17, Paul said that God chose for all of us “the boundaries of our dwelling” (our time of birth, our parents, our nation, the color of our skin, our personality, our talents, our calling/identity/’specialness’, etc.), specifically making all in the very right ‘circumstances’ to be saved (“He is not far from each one of us”), not so we would feel superior or inferior to others. This truth has apparently been lost and must be reclaimed.

  154. Quite:”most Christians are not in
    the Kingdom. They may have knocked at the door, but never
    entered in. Or they may have entered, said a quick prayer, raised
    a hand, but quickly walked out of the Kingdom again, unable or
    unwilling to leave the ways of the world and submit themselves to
    the King. ”
    .
    So true,

  155. Steve, what man thinks man can do, he cannot. God is in the ‘Salvation’ business. Let’s leave that to Him. He has all the time in the world.

  156. Richard Savage, you spoke of escalating war in the ME..?

    Here is PM Netanyahu’s message to the world:

    http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=9063

  157. ValleyAnt Nov 16th 2012

    I finally read all these comments. It seems proper to me that everything should bear fruit after its own kind. It’s right to discuss these issues, but there needs to be more redemption in the conversation. We are full of facts at best and opinions at worst, because we focus on those. Every discussion can center around things that edify and build up. Facts and truths won’t bring revival.

    I’ve seen discussions that began one way and were turned toward where the Lord was leading when He was allowed to lead them, and this always turned out for everyone’s blessing, even the blessing of those who didn’t care much for the things of God. Someone in the comments, I think it was DonaldN, proposed that we focus on seeking solutions. Andrew, is it possible to make this a focus– to get a central goal that conversions center around in spite of what an article is specifically is saying.

  158. Statement made about judging…

    I believe God has provided us two diametrically different teaching regarding ‘judging’.

    There are two important judgment differences, just as there are two outcomes of discipline, one judgment destroys, the other builds in God’s purpose.

    The first (Matt 7:1) judgment is obviously carnal in nature, not of the will of God, the verse stating ‘judge not lest you be judged’.

    The second (1Co 2:15) obviously in the will of God, the verse saying ‘the new (spiritual) man will make judgments in all things, but be subject to no mans judgment.’

    One judgment destroys likened to the ‘Lake of Fire’, one builds, as does discipline that corrects error/sin.

    Just as speaking in tongues, I believe it wrong to forbid judging, judgment that builds or destroys as man accepts, and God determines.

    Better that immaturity or carnal misuse of judging be corrected, if certain this is the will of God.. do we have the mind of the Lord?.

  159. Richard Savage Nov 16th 2012

    Roger, thankyou. Bibi makes himself clear.

    An IDF Reservist quoted in ynetnews.com: ”Time to do what must be done.”

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306350,00.html

  160. Roger…

    You were telling Richard Salvage about the ME war, the video made available was of one man’s view.

    Like Richard, and I hope many more as they become aware, let me provide you as one old newscaster use to open his newscast’s saying “and now the rest of the story.”

    With this video: http://youtu.be/oCKWDarNdGw

  161. Brother Paul Nov 16th 2012

    Valley Ant… thank you for taking the time and effort to post your (above) comment. I appreciate your words and wisdom, and I respect you for publishing your thoughts. Many blessings

  162. Joan W…

    Regarding salvation, regarding man and God, you raise two interesting questions.
    1. Are we all Evangelist’s, or is this confused with ‘witnesses for the Lord’?
    2. Is the gift of Evangelism one that we all have, or is it a primary gift of certain individuals?

    Perhaps there is a third question, when Christ made possible the body or church of saints to serve, does this body have a part in salvation?

  163. Joan W…
    Is there something wrong with your link, or is only me and my PC.

  164. Brother Paul
    Re-Christian disagreement

    The bible is clear that there will be disagreement, going so far as to as describe method of resolution. We have it, and should use it. Perhaps it could end with the entire church rising for purpose.

    What I see in error within the church, or more accurately by those in control (or leadership), is a damning of any disagreement, claiming in one instance it unsettles the calm of the sheep (congregation).

    One pastor i love preached, ‘don’t be a miss-downer’, perhaps thinking of the denomination 501c plan the government gives to keep the sheep and shepard silent and peaceful.

    Show me a ‘downer’ that enter’s a church with whip and begins pounding the congregation, and there i believe you will find a true servant of God… if in the will of God.

  165. DeWayne – thanks for the links you have provided, and thankyou too for your comments allowing for disagreement.

    You speak of ‘the rest of the story..’..? I refer you to the O.T., and the many prophecies to do with Israel – many fulfilled in recent history, including the birth, and death, of Christ Jesus our Lord, the holocaust of WWII, the regathering of Jews from ‘other nations’, and the ‘birth of a nation’ in a ‘moment’.

    You will agree that we may have confidence that which is spoken by Almighty God, will be accomplished…?

    So then, we may have confidence that those scriptural prophecies, concerning Israel, as yet unfulfilled, will be fulfilled in His Will, and in His timing.

    *****
    Here is an update – for all who are interested – the map shows recent rocket strikes in Israel, I wonder which other nation would tolerate these attacks, for so long..?

    http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/

    In His love,
    Roger

  166. Postscript to my last – this link will take one directly to the article referenced..

    http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/breaking-israeli-officials-tell-nation-to-prepare-for-7-weeks-of-war/

  167. Roger…

    You are correct about the signs of the times, as prophecy has foretold and should be no surprise, the discernment is what from historic fact is within the Lords will, and what is within His purpose.

    The birth of the State of Israel began in 1897 asnd the forming of the Zionist Congress, when a secular Jewish man named Theo. Herzl wrote ‘Der Judenstaat’ (German for The Jewish State).

    Jewish religious leaders of that time rejected the Zionist, saying they violating Torah and God’s commands… look up the ‘Three Vows Imposed Upin The Scattered’. The faithful of today still reject this State and Zionism, but you will hear nothing about this in America.

    So what does the bible say about a (secular) political State, other than God saying they will never have (perm) being like all other nations. The Apostle said let us leave (Jerusalem) this camp, because this is not an enduring city, but we are waithing for the city that is to come… look for the New Jerusalem that is revealed or said will come down out of heaven.

    But htis isn’t all that the NT says about this State and Jerusalem, Luke says, ‘When you see the (Gog and Magog) armies surrounding Jerusalem you will know that it’s desolation is near’… why?…’For this is a time of punishment in fulfillment

  168. continue…
    ‘For this is a time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written.

    Sound like the Eternal Israel ‘living in peace for ever’… or I want this piece, that piece, and that piece… until i have the whole thing.

    Sound like a nation great majority secular that has policy of “Breaking The Bones”, and young Jewish Children from the IDF “Breaking The Silence” regarding atrocities they are called upon to do.

    When an aggressor calls their victim a terrorist, and the US-Media repeats and reports multiple times this same one sided story, under-reporting almost into non-existance the other side (on going since 1920’s), it is time to find other leaders, both Christian and Secular.

  169. Roger…postscript

    Do an image-search for “Spent Rockets fired at Israel”

    Of the many photo’s you will find, they easily identify as Qassam-I,II, and III. The #1 had a range of about 3.5 miles, #2 had a range of 7.5 miles, and #3 has range of aout 10 miles.

    From firing (within) Gaza there are two towns within this max-range. Of interest concerning this, the US in 1995 developed a Laser-Sys that would take down any of these Qassam (or missile and mortor), the Zionist-Gov refused to purchase one of these systems… although they are now operating their sixth nuclear capable submarines purchased from Germany of all places.

    A judge before a jury trial will advise the jury, if any witness testimony is found a lie, (all) of his testimony should be considered a lie… what I am saying is, look into ‘False Flag’, because not everything you hear today (from US-Media) is true.

    It is true rockets have landed outside this distance (Tel Aviv), the question is, who fired them?

  170. DeWayne – events in history have confirmed, and fulfilled, scriptural prophecy – no matter which man, men, nation, army, or civilization God used to fulfill.

    Unless one spiritualises all remaining unfulfilled prophecy, (which I don’t) then I have faith, trust and confidence, in God, that these things will happen, His Will, as spoken and written, will be accomplished.

    I see that Jerusalem, and the land around it, are the focus of both spiritual and physical unrest and warfare from now until Lord Jesus visible and physical return to the place from where He ascended.

    Christ Jesus is my Lord and Saviour, I abide in Him, the Holy Spirit abides in me.

    Almighty God will judge all – my trust and faith, is in Him.

    If you are saying that the modern state of Israel has been formed by man, against the Will of God – all I can say is that the regathering of the people, the Jews, to the piece of land around Jerusalem, now named Israel – was prophesied to happen, and has happened.. Praise God, another prophecy fulfilled.

    In His love,
    Roger

  171. Roger… Old Testament

    Much is to be learned from the Old Testament, more is used out of context to teach something other than in context, example:

    In Exodus 12:23-24, God ordained the ordinance of the Passover to be observed “forever.”

    In Deuteronomy 18:3-5 the Levites are ordained to be God’s ministers, and to receive the offerings of the people, “forever.”

    In Deuteronomy 23:3 we find that an Ammonite or Moabite cannot join the congregation of the Lord’s people “forever.”

    In Leviticus 7:34 we find that the peace-offering was to be observed “forever.”

    In Leviticus 10:15 we are told that the wave-offerings are to be observed “forever.”

    In Leviticus 16:29 specifies that the Day of Atonement is to be observed “forever.”

    In Leviticus 23:41 we are commanded to observe the Feast of Tabernacles “forever.”

    In Numbers 18:19 tells us that we are to observe the heave-offerings “forever.”

    In Numbers 19:9-10 we are instructed to use the ashes of a red heifer for purposes of purification “forever.”
    ——————————————————
    It is well past time that Christians begin testing what they hear against the word of God, this surprisingly including the teaching of Christ.

    Many promises (unanswered)… are and will be answered by Christ. Some of the promises ended with the First Covenant. I refer you to the New Testament, after that we will talk about these ordinances, Temples, Alters, and what to bring for sacrifice while leaving the red heffer outside.

  172. Roger…

    You posted the State of Israel was prophesied, but what do you find in the OT. Described are either the Israel of this past earth age, or the Israel of eternity now in heaven… symbolically called the New Jerusalem. Did you know that Israel is but a very small part of the Promised Land, and God said in dividing up te land, aliens with family were to receive land to posses as their inheritance.

    As stated before, the NT clearly says Jerusalem of this earth age is not an enduring city, heaven and earth are also destroyed (pass away, melting, like clothes worn out and replaced), replaced as an old order… with the new, Christ returning says ‘I am making ALL things new’.

    The first Christians taught by Christ looked forward to the promise of ‘a new heaven and new earth’, prophesied by Isa 65:17-19

    No, God said (Ezek 20:32) their wanting to be like all other nations (and sadly they do) with wood and stone idols (power, wealth, corruption, sin), this they would never have (for long)… Thankfully many or most Jewish-faithful today remain scattered in all the nations… we are fortunate in America having many faithful.

  173. DeWayne – Thankyou for presenting your views, and beliefs 🙂

    I am aware of ‘replacement theology’ teaching, and consider this to be antisemetism.

    I’m not insisting you change your beliefs concerning Israel, I was just following on from a comment from Richard Savage concerning very current events in Israel which in my view, (and others) relate to still unfulfilled prophetic scripture.

    In Christ Jesus our risen Lord,
    Roger

  174. Excellent and true…..one wonders what it will take to bring repentance….almost frightening to think of what it could take. Thanks for posting this!

  175. New Jerusalem Nov 17th 2012

    Thank you DeWayne for bringing forth Light and Truth about the Modern state of Israel. Father UNCOVERED the FALSE ISRAEL for me about 2 years ago……

    He BEGAN with these verses:

    Rom 9:6 KJV – Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL, WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL.

    Rev 2:9 KJV – I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

    Rev 3:9 KJV – Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    Satan COUNTERFEITS EVERYTHING of God and His Kingdom. He made himself out to be a counterfeit god in the Garden……and he is still successful at it with the majority of the people on planet earth!
    ********************************************************
    There are many FORMS of REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY being discussed today……it would be impossible to address all of them individually.

    But I would just like to point out that THE BIBLICAL TRUTH is stated in the following verses.
    THERE IS NO STATEMENT in these verses stating that ALL OF THE ISRAELITES will be replaced by the CHURCH.

    These verses state that SOME of Israel will be replaced by the Church…….THE FAITHFUL GENTILES WILL JOIN WITH THE FAITHFUL CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, BECOMING ONE WITH THE ROOT OF THE OLIVE TREE.

    Rom 11:17 KJV – And if SOME of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    Rom 11:17 NASB – But if SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in AMONG THEM and became PARTAKER WITH THEM of the rich root of the olive tree,

    Rom 11:18 NASB – do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but THE ROOT SUPPORTS YOU
    .
    Rom 11:19 NASB – You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

    Rom 11:20 NASB – Quite right, THEY WERE BROKEN OFF FOR THEIR UNBELIEF, but you stand BY YOUR FAITH. Do not be conceited, but fear;

    This also tells me that ONLY THOSE WHO ARE FOUND FAITHFUL BY GOD WILL BE A PART OF THE ROOT.

    This is referring to the parable of the Virgins and the parable of the fig tree.

    Luk 13:6 KJV – He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

    Luk 13:7 KJV – Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

    Luk 13:8 KJV – And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:

    Luk 13:9 KJV – And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down.

    Gal 3:7 KJV – Know ye therefore that THEY WHICH ARE OF FAITH, the same ARE THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM.

    Gal 3:8 KJV – And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen THROUGH FAITH, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall ALL nations be blessed.

    Gal 3:9 KJV – So then THEY WHICH BE OF FAITH, ARE BLESSED WITH FAITHFUL ABRAHAM.

    **************************************************
    How can this be ANTI-SEMITISM when scripture is clearly pointing out the ONLY FACTOR that is being used to decide who is a branch is FAITH?

    How can this be ANTI-SEMITISM when scripture points out that BOTH Israelites and the Church are branches OF THE SAME ROOT OF THE OLIVE TREE?
    (both at the same time)

  176. Andrew Nov 17th 2012

    I have not been party to this whole conversation but one thing is very clear and needs to be emphasized.

    Both Jews and Gentiles have to come to full faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. ALL need to be truly born again.

    Some try to say that Jewish people are already our “brothers” but without full faith in the Messiah this cannot be so.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  177. watchful Nov 17th 2012

    I do so agree that the Jews can only come to the Father through the Son, Andrew! Maybe there is that they can be considered our prodigal brothers though. 😉

    Concerning this whole ISSUE, there are some passages that I ponder..

    Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword and shall be led away captive into all nations and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles UNTIL the TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED.

    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB:

    Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the ELECTION, [they are] BELOVED FOR THE FATHER’S SAKES.

    Rom 11:29 For the GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD [ARE] WITHOUT REPENTANCE.

    Just a thought…..though the earth will be renewed by fire, however I’m not sure that necessarily means it will be annihilated any more than we are annihilated when we are renewed…?

    Whatever the current nation state of Israel does or does not do, whatever the Jewish people do in their current condition as lost souls struggling to survive and get on in life like anybody else, whatever mistakes they may make, whatever wrongs or rights they do, it doesn’t alter the promises and word of God concerning them. It shouldn’t therefore be surprising as this age draws to a close, that spiritual warfare will increase in that sphere. We must be careful to just pray for the Jews, the whole MidEast situation, and the will of God, and not judge them. There may be conspiracies and things going on at high levels, I don’t know about those things, but there are also many who are simply doing their best under difficult and complex circumstances. It’s because of the increase of wickedness the love of most will grow cold…let that not be said of any of us here…our love will be tested.

  178. watchful Nov 17th 2012

    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this MYSTERY, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS IN PART IS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Whatever else is going on, and I agree that there is much about this issue that has been picked up on by flesh and emotion, most of us have needed or do still need cleansing and to have our minds renewed in this area, however I don’t think that negates the truth in this passage, which is a mystery to be revealed by the Holy Spirit.

  179. Andrew,
    Thankyou and Amen, this is also my belief:
    Both Jews and Gentiles have to come to full faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. ALL need to be truly born again.
    Some try to say that Jewish people are already our “brothers” but without full faith in the Messiah this cannot be so.

    ***

    Watchful, thankyou too, for both your comments 🙂 there are indeed promises, from God, that will be fulfilled, in His time, and indeed we are to pray for these people in the ME region, and elsewhere, that all may know Christ Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

    ***

    I am always encouraged by scripture addressing ‘His people’

    Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
    Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew….
    Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    ..and:

    Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
    Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
    Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
    Eze 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
    Eze 36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
    Eze 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
    Eze 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

    The regathering of Jews started before 1948, is still happening, and the land is being restored – and it seems that many Jews are receiving revelation as to the truth of Jesus, that He is the Messiah of God, and that He is Lord of all – these born-again ‘Messianic Jews’, are persecuted for their new belief. They have received a new heart, and His Spirit indwells them..

    However God explains (chapter 36, and elswhere) that He does not do this for any other reason, other than, “..and they shall know that I am the LORD.”

    May we all know Him as Lord not only of our own lives, but of all His creation..

    In His love,
    Roger

  180. Michelle Nov 17th 2012

    A father can also be a husband and brother as a mother can be a daughter and a sister.

    *************

    But a son cannot be his own father. This whole oneness thing which is a bad spin off from the real trinity doctrine boarders Buddhism with their one god with many different avatars.

    I believe in God the Father almighty maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ his only begotten Son who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary and became man. He suffered under Pontius Pilot, was crucified, died and was buried. On the third day he arose again and is seated at the right hand side of God.

    Jesus will come again in His Father’s glory, and when all things are placed under his feet, he will hand all over to God, His Father in who is all the kingdom, power, and glory.

    The oneness thing is what is going to bring a whole lot of people into the mark of the beast. God is longsuffering and full of grace, but this particular doctrine is going to be worse than all the prosperity doctrines put together.

    It would be wise to re-examine the scriptures and do your own word searches on who God is (Jesus’ Father), and who Jesus is and the functions of each.

    This is a warning that will be understood more and more as time goes on. Whether it is heeded or not is up to each person.

  181. Dewayne, so sorry for late reply, I must have been slumbering.

    Salvation is quite simple the way I look understand it. ‘For God so loved the World, He GAVE His only begotten Son…..that Whosoever believed In Him would not perish but have Everlasting Life”. I believe God said and meant that in John. In the first century, many followed Jesus, (His followers) and many fell away…for whatever reason. ONLY the heart can make the difference and none, none of us can know for sure, who did (or does) but God. Yes, we will ‘know them’ by their fruit.

    That means, to me, that the Bible was written for ME, not you, Tom, Dick or Harry…for me, so I can clean up my selfish acts, listen to my Lord and Savior, not judge others for what they do wrong, but to listen trust, love, have faith in what He tells me to do…not point out others weeknesses, confusion, or ‘doctrines’…That will only land me into grievous troubles. When I choose to Obey and listen to Him, I can keep my nose clean. Thats what that Board, the beam, that splinter is talking about. The Bible is to straighten me out, not you, Tom, Dick and Harry. They can use the same Book to straighten out themselves, if they so choose. Only God knows who does. Very simply, ‘They will know them by their Fruit’…I’ve never been in a roomful of people that I could not tell someones ‘fruit’….I know that sounds like boasting, but a person living in Christ is ‘Different’ in a crowd. And, you are drawn to them.

    I believe His Church is made up of all different types, Dewayne…The gifts and the offices. Everyone can evangelize. However, by their fruit we shall know them. I have a question to the body of Christ, ‘Why do we put so many “ands, ifs and but;s, and conditions'” to God’s Word?

    The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not Want. He left out nothing, period.

  182. Barnabas Nov 17th 2012

    The lesson of removing a beam from your own eye, is that by that time you will have removed so many specks from your own eye that you’ll know the sensitivity required. So you can then help another remove a speck. Love your neighbour as you love yourself. To fail to help a neighbour to remove a speck would be unloving. Note in the context discernment is required between pearls and swine.The confusion comes from failing to distinguished between judgement and discernment. Care-fronting and confronting. Truth and Spirit in the right balance. Unforced rhythm of grace and mercy.

  183. While I’m at it Michelle, anyone who chooses can believe in a Pentecostal mindset, i.e., doctrine is “free” to do so. This ‘position’ has been promoted since the 1980’s by specific Pen. sects. I don’t believe in it, but many do. You see, at times, you seem like life and death is rearing it’s ugly head if you don’t defend your position…it well may be, but if you’re truly sure you are right, why keep expaining. We’re not as dead horses; we get your position on the Trinity…nothing new is shed from it….Where in the Salvation situation does it tell us to believe Your way….Good grief, have mercy.

  184. Michelle – as I was one of those discussing this with you, thankyou for your explantion and testimony 🙂

    I’m not sure that anyone described, or mentioned, ‘oneness’ previously…?

    My own understanding of the ‘oneness’ belief is: one God, who can manifest as Father or Son or Holy Spirit – but not all three at the same time.

    Whereas (as I read it..?) you, and I, believe in a triune Godhead, Almighty God, comprised of Father, Son (Jesus, The Word) and Holy Spirit – all three being of the One God, yet all omnipresent and omniescent at the same time.

    May you be blessed in your walk with Christ Jesus our risen Lord, and Saviour,
    In His love,
    Roger

  185. Oh, boy, this is getting fun. Your logic is classic, Barnabus. Jumping ahead. Maybe I ‘ouched’ you’. That makes me sad. What do you think the Christian life is all about. In all my years of living, I’m still going through all the trials and tributions of any new Born Again Christian believer…I’m still wittnessing them, so I’m not died or unteachable yet, I don’t think. However, did you know that you can make anything true from the Word of God, if you want to??? How many times does it tell you Through His word to Know His word? Only then, with the Holy Spirit’s teaching, can you put it all together (I’m not there yet).

    Where did you think I didn’t say this:

    “So you can then help another remove a speck. Love your neighbour as you love yourself. To fail to help a neighbour to remove a speck would be unloving. Note in the context discernment is required between pearls and swine.The confusion comes from failing to distinguished between judgement and discernment. Care-fronting and confronting. Truth and Spirit in the right balance. Unforced rhythm of grace and mercy.”

    You got off on a different subject, dear Barnabus. While the Dear Lord is teaching Us, personally, we are able to do these other things, Rightly. As the Holy Spirit teaches us, we can explain His Truth on to others. Hardly a day that goes that I don’t use my finger to another (in thought or person) that I immediately my Spirit doesn’t remind me that I’m much worse…It sure keeps me grounded in humility and Truth.

    Barnabus, the other conserns come with time. Did you first love your neighbor as you do yourself? I have had Discerning of Spirits from the beginning, and know of what I is layed out for me. It is a gift, it’s Not teachable, Barnabus. You cannot move ahead before your time. Patience, Love, Trust, + Obey is the Only way to grow in The Lord. Not necessirly in that order.

    .

  186. Roger…

    You will never find me teaching ‘replacement theology’ so also you will not have to worry about myself being anti-semetic, being aware of this term I can assure you the many ME peoples called semetic-origin, all are loved by myself as God’s creations…

    Having followed events long before this recent-event you mentioned in ME, still I find interesting recent (Egypt Primier visits Gaza during attack, Iran-Fajr rockets fired from Gaza to Tel Aviv), these give a definate ‘False Flag’ permeating concerning US and Western Media reports.

    For instance, the latest Iranian Fajr-5 rocked has a range of 75-80KM, the distance from Gaza (border to border) is essentially 80KM… but the rocket was (supposedly) fired inside Gaza beyond the no-mans land bulldozed by the Zionist-Gov… maybe the wind was with these two rockets landing inside Tel Aviv.

    What I am saying Roger, is that people advising others they should pray for Israel, when most US Christians have had (all) of their new censored by US-Media, and religious-leaders ignorant of evils involved regarding the origin of the State by a non-religious Zionist-Congress, could have Christians (with proper discernment) praying for Satans success.

    There are many faithful and obedient Jewish, having warned about Zionism from the Zionist Congress creation in year-1897, until this very day. These are kooks of course that believe the Old Testament and in God. Do websearch of jewsnot zionist… prepared to be surprised.

  187. In the beginning…

    There was God, the Spirit upon the waters, and the Word… and the Word is Christ… and Christ Jesus is He.

    God through Mary enabled Jesus the Christ to become as man, giving Christ Jesus all power and authority… this to bring the last enemy under the feet of Christ.

    At completion, God will again become ‘all in all’… as in the beginning.

    That is what i believe.

  188. DeWayne – reading between the lines, of your comments – are you then suggesting that:

    either, rockets are being fired at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem from elsewhere, other than Gaza..?

    or, those in Israel, who are sharing what is happening, are lying or misinformed as to the facts..?

  189. Dewayne – I am also pleased to read that:

    – you neither believe in ‘replacement theology’ or support antisemetism. 🙂

    – and, you believe in the commandment from Lord Jesus, that we are to ‘love our neighbour’.

  190. There is a verse in Romans used to prove something not true, is true. This is Rom 11:25-26 “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in…. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written…”

    In last line (of above verse) refers to those that remain faithful, raising the question, who are Israel.

    The Old Testament describes people rejected by God, of only a remnant faithful, Ezek 20:38 tells of end days gathering chosen living but scattered among all the nations. These are re-gathered and after entering the New Covenant, is followed with judgment when those that rebel and revolt against God are purged, and will not enter Israel.

    At this point in above Ezekiel certainly means entering the eternal Israel with New Jerusalem, also Temple made by the hand of God. A place said we cannot imagine, trees along a river flowing from the throne, the leaves that heal nations (divisions, seperatness) giving answer to Ps 10:16 The Lord is King for ever and ever; the nations will perish from his land.

    It is apparent “all of Israel” are only those remaining faithfull that at times called a remnant, about whom Paul also said, Rom 9:6-7 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

  191. Roger…

    Do not bait me, I will answer your question with a question, did God (ever) hate a person whom He had created?

  192. Roger…

    This does remind me of ‘having proper respect” described in 1 Peter 2:17 “Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.”

    Having proper respect: as loving your neighbor, or for authority, is seriously taught in error to immature Christians. It is as though some teachers know little more than their student.

    I present two neighbors, Christ and Satan, from this it becomes obvious there is (proper) discernment in understanding significance among neighbor and authority.

  193. New Jerusalem Nov 18th 2012

    Roger….

    Many wars-squirmishes in history have been started by subterfuge.

    sub·ter·fuge
    noun \ˈsəb-tər-ˌfyüj\
    Definition of SUBTERFUGE
    1 deception by artifice or strategem in order to conceal, escape, or evade
    2 a deceptive device or stratagem

    America has been caught and exposed for their CIA going into a country and camouflaging themselves as a terrorist group or a rebel group or a national militia in order to start a rebellion, a coup, or a civil war in that country.

    This is still happening in what is called the ARAB SPRING which began in the Middle East in the Spring of 2011.

    The Modern state of Israel has been ITCHING to blow someone up for 4 years now.
    First Iran; NOW Syria; NOW Jordan; NOW Gaza; NOW Egypt.

    Who REALLY sent the ONE rocket from Syria into Israel?
    Who REALLY sent the ONE rocket from Gaza into Israel?
    Who REALLY blew up the Iranian rocket sites?

    Israel countered ONE rocket with MULTIPLE rockets and bombs killing people, WHEN the rocket they accused Gaza of FIRST firing was found in the Sea off the coast.

    Iran refusing to retaliate for the last 3 years has really FRUSTRATED the Modern state of Israel! Iran does not need NUCLEAR weapons to blow all of Israel off the map! They have missiles and other weapons that will reach the NUCLEAR WEAPONS THAT ISRAEL HAS ON THEIR MILITARY BASES.
    And Obama not siding with the Zionist secular government in their frustration has ANGERED THE ZIONISTS.

    WHY? Because without a full out war JUSTIFIED BY SELF DEFENSE, the ZIONIST SECULAR GOVERNMENT cannot increase the borders of Israel and claim MORE LAND FOR THEMSELVES without the rest of the world being against them.

    If you look at the maps of Canaan’s boundaries….you can see that Jordan belonged to Canaan…as well as most of the other countries currently surrounding the present borders of the Modern state of Israel.

  194. Barnabas Nov 18th 2012

    Joan W your comment contained the following

    ‘ When I choose to Obey and listen to Him, I can keep my nose clean. Thats what that Board, the beam, that splinter is talking about. The Bible is to straighten me out, not you, ‘

    Curious when you appear to be doing the contrary. Especially in discerning spirit of my comment. No ‘ouch’ just concern that voices are silenced on one side in favour of apparent right teaching.

  195. DeWayne – I had/have no intention of baiting you, my comments and questions are genuine. To which of my comments are you referring..?

    **

    You referred me to a site ‘jewsnotzionist’ I have had a look, thankyou.

    May I refer you to a book..? ‘Holocaust Exposed: The Bible Enigma, Nigel Woodley, content may be seen here http://www.holocaustexposed.co.nz/

    The site you pointed me to, suggested that the modern state of Israel should not exist, yet it does – and I maintain that OT scripture prophesied this would happen – it has.

    The above book shows how OT scripture also prophesied the slaughter that we know as the holocaust, and that this ‘event’ was a satanic plot to destroy the Jewish state before it was born.

    The Nazi plan (it seems) was not just to eliminate the Jews in Europe, it was to send a force to the land (then named Palestine) and kill all Jews in that region as well as those in Europe.

    God intervened, the extermination did not happen as planned.

    Today, we hear the same message from Iran – kill all Jews.

    **
    With your next comment you speak of respect..?

    Whilst I can ‘respect’ your belief and point of view – regarding Israel, I cannot agree with you, as you cannot agree with me.

    In His love,
    Roger

  196. New Jerusalem Nov 18th 2012

    Roger

    There are over 50,000 Jews living in Iran right now.

    They are living in peaceful prosperity in Tehran and other areas of Iran WITHOUT being stripped of their right to worship as they desire; without being treated as the Palestinians are in the Modern state of Israel.

    http://youtu.be/bCw-oWp1wf8

  197. Hi New Jerusalem, its been a while since we shared 🙂

    You speak of one rocket being fired into Israel from Gaza..? and one from Syria..?

    Yet, those in Israel speak of 100’s…?

    The reports I have read speak of shells and bullets being fired from Syria into Israel, not rockets.

    I have not yet read any report of ‘anyone’ blowing up Iranian rocket sites..?

    I repeat here, an abbreviated comment I asked of DeWayne, and now ask of you:

    “…are you then suggesting that:

    – either, rockets are being fired at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem from elsewhere, other than Gaza..?

    – or, those in Israel, who are sharing what is happening, are lying or misinformed as to the facts..?

  198. NJ – with regard to Jews in Iran – surely it depends on what one searches for, on Internet, as truth..?

    I know there are clips and articles presenting both persecution and peaceful prosperity.

  199. Tom

    Nov 15th 2012

    Tom – I agree with a lot of what you said in your post.
    The finger pointing, blame game has been around for a
    long, long time, hasn’t it?

  200. Roger…

    The Bible foretold when the people Israel yet in this earth age were scattered of both House of Israel and Judah (after breaking covenant), and scattered by God’s (will) into all nations.

    The bible foretells when the chosen yet living will be regathered from all the nations, and after brought into New Covenant (altho rebel purged) are brought back into an (eternal) Israel.

    The bible prophies the end of Jerusalem (symbolic Israel) as punishment in fulfillment of all that is written… all that has been written.

    The earth is destroyed as ressembling the time of creation, Mark 13:19 “…because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now — and never to be equaled again.”

    John Hagee says Christ never said He came as Messiah for the Jewish, guess between the three of us, we will have to see what happens… bye.

  201. Bye DeWayne, yes indeed His word will be fulfilled – thanks for the chat..

  202. Roger….

    Re-your statement to NJ (perhaps New Jerusalem): “NJ – with regard to Jews in Iran – surely it depends on what one searches for, on Internet, as truth..?”
    ————————————————————
    Yes, in fact Iran from the era of the Persian Empire has one of the oldest Jewish populations as citizens in that region, dating back almost 3000 years. Despite bribes to move, remain happily… isn’t that galling?

    You should also know that much printed and announced by US-Media is pure lies and propaganda… ever since the US-Gov overthrew Iran in 1953 and set up the SAVAK Secret Police… to keep (our) Shah in Office as President, elected for the next 26-years… until he left in 1979 in last stages of cancer, to die in Egypt in year-1980 of cancer… one-year quick case of cancer (no?).

    I remember a major Canada News-Service flashed a news article “Jews in Iran must wear yellow star on clothing when outside.” Iran must have planted that to improve their image (no?).

    I believe I am getting some of the “by the fruit” discernment, someone earlier mentioned.

  203. New Jerusalem Nov 18th 2012

    Roger

    The differing PERCEPTIONS of Iranian Jews are based on whether one is in favor of a SECULAR ZIONIST government or a FAITHFUL FOLLOWER of God’s ways, truth, and LIFE. The Iranian Jews trust God and not mankind to FULFILL HIS PROPHECIES IN HIS OWN WAY AND TIME.

    The Jews who follow Torah faithfully, follow the same Law as Jesus. LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOR.

    The SECULAR ZIONIST government is no more following God’s ways then the GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA IS. And America has many religious leaders who believe that the American government is a christian government. And American laws are christian laws. Just like the state of Israel has many rabbi’s who agree with Zionism and say the government is a Jewish government and the government’s laws are Jewish laws.

    Which brings us back to the articles on this website.

    Is it possible, IS IT SCRIPTURAL, that ANY SECULAR GOVERNMENT could be EQUAL TO the Government that will be set up by God Himself? Which will be a ONE WORLD Government ruled by the King of Kings…..a MONARCHY.

    Anything short of that kind of government, cannot be classified as a RIGHTEOUS GODLY (christian/messianic) government and will always FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.

    The True Nation of Israel began as a MONARCHY ruled by God Himself. And it will return to that same Monarchy once again….with ALL THE FAITHFUL FROM ALL THE AGES AS CITIZENS.

    But no, the Hebrews wanted a MAN for a King instead of God!! Imagine THAT!!

  204. Barnabus, I’m 80 years,plus. I think you have a ‘teachers’ heart. Forget what I say and do it the Lord’s way. I know that I know, you cannot get ahead of yourself, no matter how you try. Not with the Bible and Holy Spirit as your guide, no we can’t. Just a mustard seed of faith is all we need…Trusting Him, obeying and loving Him is sufficiant for our faith to grow into full fruition, dear One. He loves us all the same.
    “If you love Me, you’ll obey Me”. What wisdom and stability He supplies!

  205. New Jerusalem Nov 18th 2012

    Joan W….Your humility is the humility of Jesus Christ!

    Grace, Peace, and Love to you and yours.

  206. DeWayne and NJ,

    Yet still no answer to my question, from either of you, concerning who fired what rockets into Israel, from where..?

    Although many today spiritualise prophetic scripture to a point where anything that hasn’t yet been fulfilled is allegorised or symbolised – not all of us have that same belief.

    There are those in the Body of Christ who see both spiritual and natural/physical, and that there are scriptural prophecies that have partial or multiple fulfillment – with the understandings that those will also have completion in God’s timing, that His will be accomplished in all things that He has planned.

    In His love for you both,
    Roger

  207. Barnabas Nov 18th 2012

    Joan W, may we both find our rest in Him, with the yoke He provides, learning to live freely and lightly with His unforced rhythms of grace.
    May we abound in His grace and mercy rooted in His love.

  208. And that’s an Amen. dear child of God. We are sooo blessed.

  209. Roger…

    Perhaps I was not clear in my answer re-your question:
    DeWayne and NJ, Yet still no answer to my question, from either of you, concerning who fired what rockets into Israel, from where..?
    ———————————————————–
    We will skip retaliations of past where evidence shows only short range home made and unguided Qassam-rockets, most landing in arid outback that is the general area near the Sahara.

    Apparently like NJ, I have done enough research, read enough testimony from Diplomat’s, Intel-agents, Gov-officials, and many more of valid credentials, to know that the Zionist-Gov is well known for (Mossad “By Deception We Do War) False Flag operations.

    This is what I believe about the recent rocket attacks you brought up, I would not be surprised and in fact very suspicious that this may well be another False Flag operation. Even if rockets fired inside Gaza… the Occupation Forces make many forced incursions into Palestine area, apparently to keep Gazans fearful… and sometimes after homes destroyed and Gazan carried off the prison, leaving land to annex.

    The reason I am very suspicious, the Zionist-Gov have made a number of very bad decisions endangering all Israeli, the citizens are beginning to protest against these agregious (Break The Bones) policies and goals of the Zionist. Threats against Pres-Obama didn’t work, shifting Israeli elections didn’t work, and deals with other political parties are not working, as a result saber rattling has increased considerably.

    Albert Einstein warn that the Zionist-Gov was Fascist:
    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/arendt-and-einstein-warned-of-fascism-rising-in-israel-60-years-ago.html

    Winston Churchill had scathing things to say about Zionist control over Jewish people:
    http://hidhist.wordpress.com/churchill/winston-s-churchill-zionism-versus-bolshevism/

    Now I ask you, does this (secular) Zionist-Gov really sound like people God would entrust gathering the faithful into eternal Israel? Christians must start reading verses that some use out of context, proving a “man made” Israel is the ‘good works’ of God. They were the good works of man, and God has made absolutely clear what He thinks of these.

    My bible says (in the last days), the divided House of Israel and House of Judah will be rejoined, the people (chosen still living) will (all) be gathered out of the nations, and after purging the rebel that revolt agains God, the remenant will be brought into entenal Israel. Not one will be left behind scattered in other nations.

  210. Joan

    Your link being used, still doen’t launch anything.

  211. Kade

    Re “When do we start believing that God is fully capable of fulfilling His Own Plan and doesn’t need anyone pointing out the sins of the Church!!!!!!!”

    The Lord having all authority, had the authority to pass this on the the established church. To me it is mind boggling, what you bind and loose on earth, will be same in heaven.

    Paul was somewhat stern with authority, admonishing the church, 1 Cor 5:12-13 “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

    This man after Satan doing his thing, was apparently repentative enough, saying he was brought back in. Wouldn’t it be great if the churches might turn from their ways, with ‘just ways’ rather than mans ‘just wars’ to support.. But you are correct, God’s prophetic word does describe the end of last days.

  212. Another Peter Nov 18th 2012

    I am considered part of the older generation and a pensioner. In the churches I have visited there has been not much of a welcome from inside, and church members have no time for my wife and I outside of the walls of the church buildings they treat as as buildings where they assume God resides.
    Close those church buildings, where would God go?
    Denominational churches have become what they are – uninviting, social clubs for the cliques, sermons soley given for its members, and the repetition goes on – and – on on weekly basis.
    No taking of the Gospel message outside of church buildings has become the norm.
    I have watched the so called christian tv channels and find what they do and practice is one big con. Yet so called christian leaders do not say anything about this. So they act as con artists too because they are not shepherds but paid hirelings.
    Revival – what “great revival” are they talking about when there is a falling away from the Word of God?
    Not much showing so far!
    Who cares anymore!!!!!!!

  213. Michelle Nov 18th 2012

    Roger,

    There are some aspects of the oneness doctrine that is true, just as there are aspects of all doctrines that are true.

    Here’s a link to what this is..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism_%28doctrine%29

    Keep in mind there are many sects of this.

    The main deception that is increasing is that Jesus is God His Father come in the flesh rather than Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God come in the flesh. Can’t stress enough how important that is going to become. Testing the spirit is thrown all out of wack according to 1Jn 4 if that point is compromised.

  214. Michelle Nov 18th 2012

    Here is another explaination of the oneness, or modalism:

    http://www.theopedia.com/Modalism

    Modalism

    Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.

    Modalism was condemned by Tertullian (c. 213, Tertullian Against Praxeas 1, in Ante Nicene Fathers, vol. 3). Also known as Sabellianism, it was condemned as heresy by Dionysius, bishop of Rome (c. 262).

    Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God (i.e., who God is). “Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus… modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” [1]

    ******************

    The trinity doctrines at least keep the persons of the Father and His Son seperate. Praying to our Father through the name of Jesus is the reason there is grace upon the denominations of today. Listening to many, many preachers most still do this even if they do not quite realize what they are doing, they are confessing that Jesus is the only way to the Father by their prayers. If/when that practice is thrown to the wayside, then the prayers will be null and void.

  215. I haven’t gotten into these kind of “why I believe because” in 30 years, but my view is important here, so here goes: And I quote:

    Traditional Heresies Concerning the Triune God
    Against Modalism, Adoptionism, Arianism, and Tritheism
    Many Christians over the centuries have grappled with the mystery of the Triune God as revealed in the Bible. Thanks to their diligent inquiry, most of the theological confusion has been mapped out and orthodoxy has been delineated. Heresies concerning the understanding of the Three-One God have appeared in a variety of guises throughout church history, but most have polarized along two extremes: monarchianism and tritheism.

    Those who overemphasize the aspect of the oneness of the Trinity to the point of compromising the eternality, equality, or distinction among the Three are said to profess monarchianism. At the opposite extreme, those who dissect the unique God into three separate entities have embraced tritheism.

    Monarchianism is defined as an excessive and unscriptural insistence on the rigid unity of the Godhead which precludes the existence of a Trinity. There are two subcategories within monarchianism—modalistic monarchianism and dynamic monarchianism.

    Modalism:

    The Father, the Son,
    and the Spirit are
    three temporal modes.
    HERESY: Modalistic monarchianism, also known as modalism, is the notion that the one unique God manifests Himself in three different modes or stages. Modalism maintains that the singular God appeared initially as the Father in the Old Testament. God then manifested Himself in the four Gospels as the Son, and meanwhile ceased to exist as the Father. Beginning with the day of Pentecost, God began to move as the Spirit, and is therefore no longer either the Father or the Son. Modalism thus denies the eternal coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

    Truth:

    All Three
    of the
    Trinity
    eternally
    coexist.
    TRUTH: While the work of the Son is certainly more prominent, that is, more evident, in the Gospels, and that of the Spirit in the Epistles, this shift of emphasis certainly does not signal any essential, ontological transience among the divine Trinity. The Bible offers abundant proof that the Father is eternal (Isa. 9:6), the Son is eternal (Heb. 1:12; 7:3), and the Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14). The eternal nature of the Father, Son, and Spirit strongly implies that They coexist continuously and simultaneously from eternity past to eternity future. A careful reading of the Bible confirms and further reveals the intrinsic eternal inseparability of the Trinity, including the fact that any action taken by One necessitates the simultaneous involvement of the other Two. The testimony of Scripture, therefore, invalidates the modalistic belief that God exists and manifests Himself only in any one of three modes. (read more)

    Adoptionism:

    Christ was
    originally a
    man later
    adopted
    to be
    God’s Son.
    HERESY: Dynamic monarchianism, or adoptionism, maintains that only the Father is genuinely God, and thus, that neither the Son nor the Spirit can properly be accorded the same rank of Deity as the Father. Hence, adoptionists tend to believe that Jesus Christ was merely a man, or maybe even a special man, upon whom the Father conferred special favor or status, but that He was never a genuine Son of God. He was said to have been only “adopted” by the Father to be His Son during His baptism, based on the account in Matthew 3:17, where the Father stated, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight.” A variant view asserts that Christ was adopted not during His baptism but rather, in His resurrection, when the Father declared, “You are my Son; today I have begotten You” (Acts 13:33). In either case, Christ the Son was merely made, appointed, constituted, or elevated to a god, but certainly never is God in the same way in which the Father is God. Further, proponents of adoptionism also deny that the Holy Spirit is a distinct hypostasis within the Godhead, but is instead merely a manifestation of the Father’s grace.

    Truth:

    Christ is
    eternally
    the genuine
    Son of God.
    TRUTH: Fundamental Christian faith, based on the consistent revelation of Scripture, testifies that all Three of the Godhead are fully and co-equally Deity. The Son of God is eternally the complete God (Heb. 1:8). In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Col. 2:9); hence, the entire Godhead resides within Him. As the Son, He is the mighty God (Isa. 9:6). Furthermore, the Spirit is not merely a manifestation of God’s grace, but is fully God Himself. Thus, when Ananias deceived the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4, he was in fact lying to God.

    Acts 13:33 does indicate that Jesus Christ was begotten by God as His Son in resurrection. However, this fact in no way precludes His divine sonship prior to His resurrection. Christ is eternally the only begotten Son of God in His divinity; nevertheless, the humanity He put on in incarnation belonged to the old creation. Therefore, in resurrection it was necessary for His humanity to be sanctified, uplifted, and transformed into the divine sonship (Witness Lee, Footnotes, 603). In this sense, He was begotten by the Father in resurrection to be the Firstborn Son of God, possessing both divinity as well as uplifted, “sonized” humanity (Rom. 8:29). (read more)

    Arianism:

    The Son is
    an inferior
    deity
    created by
    the Father.
    HERESY: Arianism, which bears some semblance to adoptionism, likewise denies both the eternality and the absolute Deity of the Son. This notion holds that the Son is not consubstantial with the Father; that is, They do not share the same divine essence. Arianism teaches that since the Son is the Father’s Only Begotten, the Son had to have been begotten at some point in time. Hence, by extension, as a common Arian expression asserts, “there was a time when He [the Son] was not.” The fact that Christ was begotten therefore implies that He was created. Though He be the first, or even the chief of God’s creation based upon Colossians 1:15, He is nevertheless merely a creature and therefore temporal; at the most, He exists as an inferior deity.

    Truth:

    The Son
    is the
    eternal
    uncreated
    God.
    TRUTH: Christ’s being the Son of God does not denote in any sense an inferior standing relative to the Godhead. On the contrary, His identity as the Son of God proves His equality with God (John 5:18-19). Furthermore, the Father’s begetting of the Son does not refer to a specific event in time, but rather, to an eternal relationship of perpetual dispensing from the Father to the Son in which the only begotten Son of God is eternally begotten of the Father. In addition, while the Firstborn of all creation in Colossians 1:15 does refer to Christ, the entire divine revelation testifies that Christ, in His dual status as the complete God and the perfect man, is simultaneously both Creator and creature. Christ in His humanity is the Firstborn of all creation, yet in His divinity He is the eternal “I am” (John 8:58) without beginning or ending. (read more)

    Tritheism:

    The Father, the Son,
    and the Spirit are
    three separate gods.
    HERESY: Tritheism is the belief in three distinct and separate Gods. Though never formally promulgated in the history of Christian doctrine, it is nevertheless held to, at least subconsciously, by many Christians.

    Truth:

    The Three
    are One
    God,
    distinct
    but not
    separate.
    TRUTH: The clear Biblical pronouncement is that there is one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4; 1 Tim. 2:5). There is certainly a Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, who are distinct yet never separate. The unique indivisible divine essence is fully resident in each of the Three; hence, no One of Them is merely “one-third” of God. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God–all distinct, coequal and coeternal–nevertheless, there are not three Gods, but one unique God.

    Realizing that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one God annuls any need for spiritual legality concerning which of the Three to address in prayer, into which One a believer is baptized, etc. The Trinity who has saved us, who indwells us, and who operates within us is the Three-One God—distinct but not separate, coexisting and coinhering eternally.

    Without a doubt, the greatest truth entrusted to the Christian is the truth concerning the Triune God. As to himself, he must know it and treasure it. As to others, he must defend it and proclaim it. As to God, he must honor it and experience it. A lucid understanding of the Triune God serves not only to fortify a believer against unscriptural teachings about God abounding in today’s religious world, but also to increase his appreciation of God and benefit his personal spiritual experience. To a human being, there is indeed no undertaking greater, no calling nobler, than to know, love, experience, and preach the Triune God.

    Main | Relationships Among | As Life | Processed & Consummated | Heresies | Quotes | Links

    Copyright ©2000, 2002. Christian Websites. All Rights Reserved.

    I repeat, since we live in a three (3) dimintual world. This is good enough for me about the Trinune God. It is a ‘perceived’ issue after Salvation. It is a doctrine in different Pent. churches….and for some, very confusing. I faced this issue, probrably before you were born Michelle….and the issue is still causing controversy, so sad.

  216. Malcolm and Sandra Nov 18th 2012

    My wife and I have every empathy with Another Peter for we stopped going to church for the same reasons. We are considered part of the older generation who are out of touch with what God is going to do with the younger and new generation of the christian church of today. With whom and what was never answered by the leadership of our pentecostal church which is now part of the charismatic movement endorsing Restorationism and everything which is considered “new.” For restorationists like Gerald Coates and company became the spiritual consultants to our church.
    Because my wife and I were told that God was doing something new, whatever that meant at that time, and still remains so todate, we were told to leave as we were out of touch with the “spirit” which today can mean anything. For we would not be happy with what God was going to do then and in the 21st century, and in our church we once belonged to.
    The three pastors of this 1,000 strong church began to associate with a host of charismatic leaders who were invited to teach and prophesy at the church meetings where one prophecy was that this particular church would be taking the city for Jesus. How this was to be achieved was never fully explained. The church members led by the leadership did not leave the church premises or its meetings to go into the world to preach the Good News and neither did they take to Gospel message onto the streets of the city which it once did. Instead, they waited for people to come to them or the church services full of new adopted choruses and songs, to come to listen to christian rock music, and later to be entertained by the Toronto Blessing and its off shoots.
    They forgot pensioners like my wife and I, and others, and targeted the youth, students and young families which eventually became the predominant members of the church.
    This is what the Christian Church has got itself into without checks or discernment. The christian church is what it has become today -going into all directions and into various camps of religious beliefs and practices, and taking on board all sorts of spiritual phenonemon which has nothing to do with the Holy Ghost – but claimed to be!
    We would told to find a church to our liking and beliefs. We attended a few house churches but these split and were disbanded due to people who wanted to use power and control over others.
    We are churchless because of what the modern western church has become.
    Who wants to listen and take on board two elderly spirit filled born again christians for which my wife and I are? Wisdom and the discernment have been part and parcel of our lives.
    If we ever wanted to return to our church which we once attended for many years, we are are expected to submit to the leadership and its teachings without questions asked.
    We will end by saying as what Another Peter did say – who cares anymore?
    The older generation has become expendable and forgotten.
    Waiting to go Home with the Lord!

  217. Michelle Nov 18th 2012

    Isa 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
    Isa 2:6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.
    Isa 2:7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:
    Isa 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:
    Isa 2:9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.
    Isa 2:10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.
    Isa 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
    Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
    Isa 2:13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
    Isa 2:14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
    Isa 2:15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
    Isa 2:16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
    Isa 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

    **************

    Guard against being replenished from the east.

  218. Be encouraged Malcolm and Sandra. You are not alone. Keep your eyes upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
    I have watched so called christian tv channels to receive inspiration but instead their programmes cause me dispair.
    They have the same false teachers and prophets who appear to run these tv stations, and that included radio stations as well.
    The Word of Faith Movement and charismatic leaders broadcast their own programmes on them where one emphasis is on “sow your finacial seed with them to receive God’s blessing.”
    Now they are expanding throughout the western world and setting themselves up in major cities of certain countries.
    TBN and the God Channel are just two of them.
    See for yourselves these folk are who appear on each of these tv stations:-
    TBN programme schedule
    http://www.tbneurope.org/schedule.php
    God TV programme schedule
    http://www.god.tv/weeklyschedule

    Notice the names!

    to be continued…

  219. Continuing from previous comments…

    See also DayStar TV
    http://www.daystar.com/schedule
    See Inspiration TV
    http://www.locatetv.com/listings/inspiration-network#14-Nov-2012

  220. and finally…

    Revelation TV
    http://www.revelationtv.com/bin/sc-nov-2012.pdf

    Pat Robertson of CBN and founder of the 700 Club is influencing the christian tv called Revelation TV which is now based in Spain. Moved their operations from the UK. This tv channel broadcasts programmes by WoF leaders such as John Hagee and Jesse Duplantis. The so called prophet called Sid Roth has his own programme on RTV, as well with the other tv stations.

    It is amazing what can be found when wolves are masquerading as sheep.

    Care to comment!

  221. DeWayne, you said:
    “..This is what I believe about the recent rocket attacks you brought up, I would not be surprised and in fact very suspicious that this may well be another False Flag operation. Even if rockets fired inside Gaza… the Occupation Forces make many forced incursions into Palestine area, apparently to keep Gazans fearful… and sometimes after homes destroyed and Gazan carried off the prison, leaving land to annex…”

    At risk of you (again) saying I am baiting you (which I am not) – when I read the above, you now seem to infer that the IDF are firing rockets at their own people…? Really..?

    Then you say: “..My bible says (in the last days), the divided House of Israel and House of Judah will be rejoined, the people (chosen still living) will (all) be gathered out of the nations,..”

    I see that happening now, don’t you…? and has been happening prior to 1948, Jews returning to the land, responding to the warnings in the OT, and that were also given verbally in the 1930’s.

    **
    DeWayne – you list secular names, sources, and give links, yet you also say media reports etc. cannot be trusted..?

    You seem intent on pushing your view on the modern state of Israel onto others – yet previously you allowed for disagreement..?

    In God’s plan, whatever Einstein or Churchill may have said isn’t going to affect God’s plan. Let us refer to Scripture, what God has spoken (prophesied) will be accomplished.

    I will repeat that I maintain OT scripture foretold the regathering of Jews, Israelites, back to the land around Jerusalem, ready for Lord Jesus return. Yes scripture also tells of wars, rumours of wars, God using gentile nations to ‘judge’ Israel, and so forth – this has been happening, is still happening, and will happen until His return.

    The fact is, OT prophecy has (and continues to be) fulfilled with these events.

    In His love,
    Roger

  222. Richard Savage Nov 18th 2012

    Colin, yes and yes again.

    Since God is not poor, and provides for every work He requires, then why do these broadcasters need to sell out for money? Is it money, or is something much more sinister at work here? Does this go beyond broadcasters and into government perhaps, or the EU? Another directive, but veiled from our sight?

    Malcolm and Sandra, we are where you are! And have been for twenty years. I came out, and days later it was confirmed by actually being told in my spirit, come out from among them.

    Like you I dared question many practices in the churches I was a member of, and was shouted down. I was not in the spirit! Thank God for that! The last straw was in the Apostolic Church; over night the leadership was hi jacked by feminists who were seemingly Godless and bent on an agenda which had no relation to the Gospel, and their witness showed no marks of Christ. As a Bible teacher in the North of England, they instructed me exactly what to teach, defying the Holy Spirit whose guidance I sought daily before delivering a message.

    Frankly Malcolm and Sandra, I almost your age it seems, and have for a long time considered my walk with Jesus so much richer for getting out; as well as being somewhat more difficult. It has been a wilderness time but I’ve never walked alone. Yet the places the Lord has lead me were unimaginable twenty years ago.

    Who cares? I do. Another Peter, Malcolm and Sandra and Colin, I’m in the UK; here’s an email address for me: [email protected].
    You may have to wait a couple of hours while I wade through the almost certain to arrive junk mail!

    Write me, please.

  223. Another Peter, Malcolm and Sandra, God does not change. He is the same yesterday, now and forever. Men’s minds change with culture…or their own puffed up ‘smarter than thou mentality. They always think they can ‘think’ better than our God. Out of the Pentecostal churches sprang so many ‘new and smarter ways’ factions, the Baptist church wasn’t good enough, so here came the 2nd Baptist, 3rd Baptist…Assemblies of God split into ‘their’ newer and more modern ways….and it goes on and on with all the various ‘do’s and don’t folk…It’s big enough to make ones head spin endlessly. They don’t trust that you are saved nor God’s words are final and complete…I do hear that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. they have to add to it. Look to our Lord and Savior for all your needs. He will show you the Truth. Just always remember, His Word Never comes back void….Ask Him to show you, not that you show you, and He will graciously do so. Looking for fellowship with other Christians trust in Him. You’ll never find a “perfect” church. God Bless you and Go with God.

  224. Another Peter, Malcolm and Sandra – be encouraged 🙂

    There are many in similar circumstances, if you are abiding in Christ Jesus as Lord and saviour – then He abides in you.

    I join with Colin, Richard Savage, Joan W, and any others who are with you in spirit.

    In the love which is Christ Jesus our risen Lord, and living God,
    Roger

  225. Roger

    One of the most common misuse of scripture by Zionist and Zionist sympathisers saying ‘God is gathering the scattered into the State of Israel’ is Hosea 3:4-5, describing events in the ‘Last Days’. Believe me, if your around then, you will recognize the difference.

  226. Andrew Nov 18th 2012

    Michelle – sadly what you are preaching is heresy.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  227. Andrew – my sincere apologies to you, and all others – for distracting this thread with an off-topic subject. The intent was to share a news update only..

    In His love,
    Roger

  228. New Jerusalem Nov 18th 2012

    After the Israelites settled in Canaan, the judgement for violating their Covenant with God was to be EXILED INTO SLAVERY OUTSIDE Canaan into another country/countries.

    According to the laws of tribulation (Leviticus 26:40-42), WHEN GOD SENT AN ISRAELITE TRIBE INTO EXILE for violating the Covenant, THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO RETURN TO CANAAN UNTIL THEY REPENTED!
    Hence, the Jews were not allowed to return as Judah a century ago, because they had not yet fulfilled the conditions that would have ended their captivity.

    Not many Jews or Christians expect the destruction of Jerusalem and the Zionist government, because they do not consider the biblical distinction between the OLD and NEW Jerusalem. There are many prophecies of Jerusalem that appear to be contradictory. Some speak in glowing terms of Jerusalem’s restoration, while others condemn Jerusalem and speak of its utter destruction.
    The key is in knowing that there are TWO JERUSALEMS, and that the Hebrew term for the city is plural (dual), Ierushalayim.

    The Old Testament makes no distinction between the two cities, but the New Testament does. Paul is especially clear on this issue in Galatians 4, labeling the Old Jerusalem as “Hagar,” and the New Jerusalem “Sarah.”
    Hagar represents ALL the people who are without FAITH, both Israelites and Gentiles.
    Sarah represents ALL the people who are FAITHFULL, both Israelites and Gentiles.

    THE OLD JERUSALEM IS TO BE CAST OUT, ALONG WITH HER CHILDREN.
    The NEW JERUSALEM is the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, and her children are those who recognize “Sarah” as their mother.

    Hence, where the Old Testament prophets speak of Jerusalem in a negative light, it is to be applied to the Old Jerusalem. When the prophets speak of the city in a positive light, it is to be applied to the New Jerusalem. Any mention of “Jerusalem” in the Old Testament must be accompanied by the question:
    WHICH JERUSALEM?

    Therefore, since we still have Old Jerusalem with us, we should expect to see Isaiah 29 fulfilled, where God speaks directly to Jerusalem under the poetic name, Ariel.

    29:3
    And I will encamp against you round about; and I will hem you in with siege works and I will set up fortifications against you

    29:4
    And you shall be laid low [Jerusalem], speaking from beneath the ground, and your speech shall come humbly from the dust. And your voice shall be like that of a ghost [produced by a medium] coming from the earth, and your speech shall whisper and squeak as it chatters from the dust.

    In other words, God will lay siege to Jerusalem, using men and nations as His agents, of course. The city will “be brought low.”

    The confusion then comes in verse 5, because God refers to “the multitude of your enemies,” but men assume that Jerusalem’s “enemies” are the NON-Jewish people who are laying siege to the city.

    Whereas it is clear that God is seen to be siding with those who lay siege to Jerusalem.

    No, God’s “enemies” are those He is fighting. Enemies of God are not defined by genealogy but by their hostility to Yahweh-Jesus Christ.

    In the law, God says He will show hostility to those who are hostile to Him (Lev. 26:27, 28; 40-42). Isaiah 63:10 says that those who grieve His Holy Spirit—even Israelites themselves—are classified as the enemies of God.
    For this reason, when God says in Isaiah 29:5 that in His siege of Jerusalem, “the multitude of your enemies shall become like fine dust,” the REAL ENEMIES of the city are the Israeli occupiers of the city WHO CAUSE ITS DESTRUCTION THROUGH THEIR REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST.
    The description of God’s siege against Jerusalem is horrendous.

    29:5
    But the multitude of your [enemy] strangers that assail you shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the ruthless and terrible ones like chaff that blows away. And in an instant, suddenly,
    29:6
    You shall be visited and delivered by the Lord of hosts with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with whirlwind and tempest and the flame of a devouring fire.
    29:7
    And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel [Jerusalem], even all that fight against her and her stronghold and that distress her, shall be as a dream, a vision of the night.
    29:8
    It shall be as when a hungry man dreams that he is eating, but he wakens with his craving not satisfied; or as when a thirsty man dreams that he is drinking, but he wakens and is faint, and his thirst is not quenched. So shall the multitude of all the nations be that fight against Mount Zion.

    In other words, when God lays siege to Ariel-Jerusalem, He will use many nations as His army.

    Both Jerusalem AND the nations God uses in this siege end up being losers. No victors but Jesus Christ.

  229. Jesus will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years as King of Israel, heir to David’s throne.
    He will be the man Israel desired as a King while also restoring the Kingship to the one to whom it belongs: God.
    Jesus who IS God, reigning as both man and God.
    So it doesn’t seem like Jerusalem will be the loser.

  230. Sheeja John Nov 19th 2012

    Can anybody, who is truly born of God, continue to sin willfully, after having received the knowledge of Yeshua Ha Mashiach?
    Hebrews 10:26 -27 states, ‘For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.’

    Was the man addressed in 1st Cor. 5:1-13 truly born again? Jude:4 reads thus: ‘For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.’

    If the blood of Yeshua Ha Mashiach, that was poured out for the remission of our sins do not wash and cleanse us from our sins and the sin nature, then His Sacrifice becomes an absolute waste. The modern churches teach that the sin nature remains, even after one is born from above, and that teaching is from the pit of hell. Those who teach and practice such doctrines will receive severe punishment according to Hebrews 10:29 that reads, ‘Of how much worse punishment do you suppose, will he be thought worthy, who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of Grace.’
    The blood of Yeshua Ha Mashiach washes and cleanses us from all unrighteousness and His Holy Spirit empowers us to lead a holy life. That’s why apostle Paul said, ‘If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, BEHOLD, ALL THINGS HAVE BECOME NEW’. – 2nd Cor. 5:17. And we read in Hebrews 10:4, ‘For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins’. Further we read, ‘For by one offering, HE HAS PERFECTED forever those who are being sanctified. – Hebrew 10:14
    The very foundations of faith and salvation, as taught by the churches across the world is faulty. But YAHWEH guards the gate to His Kingdom. Yeshua said, ‘No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; – John 6:44
    Again Yeshua said, ‘No one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father. – John 6:65
    It will do good if we chew on ‘1 John 3:4-10’ till revelation comes.

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

  231. New Jerusalem Nov 19th 2012

    Tim….I agree with what you said. We differ, most likely, on whether Jesus is ruling His Kingdom on earth from Old Jerusalem or New Jerusalem.

    Sheeja John

    If our sin nature was completely consumed at the time of our new birth, then there would be more GLORIFIED SAINTS being translated to Heaven as Enoch and Melchizedek were.

    There would also be NO NEED FOR SANCTIFICATION AND PURIFICATION which the Epistles emphasize when commanding Holiness.

    It is true that the sin nature/mind/soul is able to be Regenerated/Renewed to the Mind of Christ before we physically die, but it is a process that takes place AFTER one is born again.

    Our spirit is made new, whole, complete, and Holy at the time of our new birth instantaneously. But unfortunately our sin nature/mind/soul is transformed according to our increasing FAITH that is Gifted to us by the Lord.

    Oh how I have yearned that the sanctification process was INSTANT!

  232. Marilyn Crow Nov 19th 2012

    I agree with you Malcolm & Sandra & Another Peter. My husband, Trevor & I have had similar experiences. We now relate to other Christians individually or as a couple. We encourage, mentor & receive the same also. There is a greater depth & reality in our relationships now.
    The `reviving` I believe is going on all around us as the Lord by His Holy Spirit is reviving us, awakening us that He is our Head & not a denomination or a person. And as we are reviving our Christianeze we used to speak & many other attitudes are being dealt with.
    We also relate more with non-Christians plus help our friends with their contacts also.
    Great to hear of others on this exciting, so different journey, to know our Lord & Saviour more.

  233. Sheeja John Nov 19th 2012

    In Jeremiah 31:33-34 we read, “But this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; I will be their God and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall no Me from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord… ”

    In 1 John 2:20 and 27 we read, ‘But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.,
    ‘But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, you do not need anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.’
    Those who are born of God are taught by God. (Reference John 6:45)

    If you plant the seed of a red apple tree, you will find that it brings forth an apple plant, and as it completes the years to bring forth the fruit, it brings forth red apples. Right through the process of growing, the seed had all the ingredients required to bring forth the red apple. Likewise, those who are born of God, have the seed of Christ within them. They have everything required, to live a holy life. ‘His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him, who called us by glory and virtue.’ (2 Peter 1::3)
    Further, I would say, ‘How can we who died to sin live any longer in it?'(Romans 6:2) Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DONE AWAY WITH, THAT WE SHOULD NO LONGER BE SLAVES OF SIN. For he who has died has been freed from sin.’ (Romans 6:6-7) ‘Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:11) ‘For SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU, For you are not under law but under grace.’ (Romans 6:14) ‘And having been SET FREE FROM SIN, you became slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:18) But now HAVING BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN, and having become slave of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.’ (Romans 6:22)

    “If you abide in My Word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” – John 8:31-32

  234. watchful Nov 19th 2012

    We know from scripture that Jerusalem is likened to Sodom and Gomorrah. Nevertheless if it were only a matter of “just the facts, ma’am”, who of us could stand? (whatever the facts really are in this case) There is more to this than meets the eye, spiritually speaking. Thinking of the MANIFOLD wisdom of God..

    Think in terms of the carrying of intercession and all that entails, being led like a lamb to the slaughter, being numbered with transgressors………read again dear friends of the mystery of their having been cast away SO THAT the world could receive the gospel. oh Lord grant that I be found wiping their weary brow and washing their aching feet and not on the side of the accuser and punisher. Spread the corner of your garment over them I pray Lord Jesus! For if their having been cast away meant the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be?? LIFE FROM THE DEAD!!

  235. watchful Nov 19th 2012

    New Jerusalem, I really enjoy your excellent teaching, I think that for most of us we each have our portion according to our gifts and call and how we function as one part of the Body, if only by His Spirit He would put it all together somehow!!

  236. Teshuva Nov 19th 2012

    Isaiah says, who has believed our report?
    Where is my focus? Is it on what man thinks of me? Is it on what I think of me, or is it on what God thinks of me?
    If I focus on what God thinks of me, then all I can do is reckon myself dead to sin and alive to Christ, in which all I focus on is the finished work of the cross in my life and the life of others. For when I try to do things in and of my self, I lose focus on Him and my focus is on myself, which is idolatry. This causes me to depend on my own strength and not the strength of God, who is in me, reconciling me back to Himself. What I focus on is what I worship. God says there is nothing to hard for Him– I have to believe this, and walk on the water of His word lest I look at others conditions or myself and sink. I am learning to just have a heart of gratitude for all He has accomplished.

  237. New Jerusalem, Teshuva, Watchful, Sheejva John, great teaching and insight of God and His scriptures…very crystal clear and useful. Where were you when I was a growing, grasping young Christian? (just musing) Some do have more trouble than others. I think I always tried to focus on subjects in the Bible first.. I’m not the sharpest tack in the box. But no matter our condition or brightness, we will get there if we keep our eyes on our Prize, our first love, Him and Him alone. Born again folk will always find wisdom and love by following Jesus Christ. I am greatly encouraged by most of these posts. And, I thank God for Wolfgang and Mercy for their wonderful love and insights on this country’s plight. Those who have ears, let them listen and benefit. Amen.

  238. Teshuva Nov 19th 2012

    Joan W,
    It is I who asks the question of where were a few of these people when I was going through trials and tribulation, because I am not the sharpest tack in the box.
    Many that you have mentioned above have been a tremendous blessing to me of the late.
    All I can say is that He imputed His righteousness/spirit to me/flesh, causing me to understand that Christ came in the flesh even in myself. Then He made me to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit calls His body of which we are by faith accursed. I was to understand that there are some who are weaker than others and it is for the stronger ones to build up the weaker ones.
    I am ever learning not to give people a piece of my mind, but instead a piece of my heart where the Spirit of God has His throne/authority. Now I call no man accursed, as I wait for the day that all will bend the knee and confess with the mouth that Yeshua is Lord to the Glory of God. If I am in Him and He in me, then all I can do is watch as flesh/chaff falls off while the spirit of God/kernel in me pokes through this earthly body. At the cross I went from my faith to His faith. At the cross I went from being clothed in my glory/filthy rags of righteousness to His glory and being clothed in love, joy, peace, and getting a thicker robe of long suffering/patience, for myself and others until I am completely clothed in nothing but His glory. This is the way that I understand going from glory to glory with Him. I am learning not to let no one wear my long suffering/patience thin, and thereby have hopes to be without blemish. I have found that if I reason in my mind it retards my growth, and so I am learning to walk on the water of His word and lean not to my own understanding. This leaves me with nothing to brag about except Him!! Blessed be our God!

  239. Teshuva….and it’s showing, Bless you. I hope I may copy this beautifully composed expression from your heart of a growing, learning Saint. I know your expressions are what many newer Christians are witnessing. It’s the most exciting adventure sought by man. We can all witness it. When we look and learn from our Lord and Savior, there are No complaints, just joy and Thanksgiving. Amen and amen!

  240. Tim…

    You said “Jesus will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years as King of Israel, heir to David’s throne.”

    This is a common teaching, yet based upon false interpretation of scripture.

    It’s origin is from Revelation 20:1-7, where a Latin translation of the Greek word “Chilioi’ was translated as “Mille” (fixed thousand).

    The Greek word ‘Chilioi’ is an adjective of plural article, from Greek math theorem (base-10) rendered as “Thousands”, and without quantifier (Chilioi stands alone in Rev-20, and 2 Pe 3:8), is an undefined number of thousands, menaing more than one thousand.

    Jesus will reign with saints yet in this earth age until Satan released from the abyss as ruler over the world. Jesus after putting all of the enemy under His feet, will after reign with the saints forever, not a Latin ‘thousand years’. This one thousand-years is found no where in the Bible.

    Clink on my name linked to my study and research concerning the Vulgate Bible “Millennium”, read Rev 20:1-7 and see how twisted this Millennium diverts from the word of God.

  241. Please let me attempt a strong word about judging that some have discussed. Surely Christ said He did not come into the world to judge, this judgment held back until the last of end days. Today He works through His servants in the heart and mind to bring salvation for all that have eyes to see and ears to listen.

    Yet, remember that the new (spiritual) man will make judgments in all thing. Does this mean we have the power or authority to destroy anyone in (our) Lake of Fire, certainly not.

    Yet if a brother/sister or friend is found in sin, sin not leading to death, would you not warn and pray for them. We are warned to have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darknes (but rather expose them). About these conditions that divide or seperate we are warned…

    1 Cor 6:1-3 “If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?…

    Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?…

    And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?”

    If you would warn a brother/sister in the Lord, does this exclude those whose sins lead to death?

    What did the Lord mean when He said…
    Matt 16:18-19 “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven….”

    This is not well said, I am not a speaker or teacher, but do not discparage of judgment as needed for a brother/sister,
    or as sentry upon the wall… don’t forget the Lord also warned the servant of Satan.

    Having studied about the wrath that people build up for themselves, knowing about this time of wrath to come, I would not myself place anyone in such a duration that must appear as an eternity of eternities.

  242. Dewayne, I don’t know what you’re talking about?…Dull tack here.

  243. DeWayne, you said:
    “Tim…You said “Jesus will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years as King of Israel, heir to David’s throne.”

    This is a common teaching, yet based upon false interpretation of scripture…”

    Or, maybe it is a biblical teaching that some have tried to misinterpret, and teach, to suit their own belief..?

  244. Apologies – that should read:

    DeWayne, you said:
    “Tim…You said “Jesus will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years as King of Israel, heir to David’s throne.”
    This is a common teaching, yet based upon false interpretation of scripture…”

    Or, maybe it is a biblical teaching that some have tried to misinterpret, and teach, to suit their own belief..?

  245. ValleyAnt Nov 19th 2012

    Brother Paul, thanks.

  246. Dewayne said:
    “Tim…
    You said “Jesus will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years as King of Israel, heir to David’s throne.”
    This is a common teaching, yet based upon false interpretation of scripture.
    ____________

    Sorry DeWayne, you are wrong. What I wrote was not an “interpretation” of scripture. My statement is based on what scripture says, WITHOUT interpretation.

    It is based on much more than a few verses of Revelation. It is based on the prophecy of almost every OT prophet as well as the prophecy delivered by John.

    It is not based on any “teaching”, common or otherwise, it is based on a plain and simple reading of scripture.

  247. New Jerusalem said:
    “Tim….I agree with what you said. We differ, most likely, on whether Jesus is ruling His Kingdom on earth from Old Jerusalem or New Jerusalem.”
    ____________

    A plain reading of scripture makes it clear that Jesus returns to this earth, wipes out the beast and his armies, then reigns here on this earth.
    If that is not the case, all of the OT prophets and John the apostle were wrong.

    The New Jerusalem descends to a new earth after this earth has passed away.

  248. Marilyn Crow Nov 19th 2012

    I appreciate your thought Teshura, `learning to give people a piece of my heart.` May I grow more in this, Lord. I also enjoy your comments Joan, you are very encouraging to others.

  249. Marilyn Crow Nov 19th 2012

    Sorry spelt your name wrong -Teshuva.

  250. Marilyn Crow Nov 19th 2012

    Tim & New Jerusalem, I`d like to make a comment on this topic of Jesus ruling the earth in the Millennium. (The final 1,000 years of the 7,000 years of God`sTime purposes)

    Yes, the prophets do clearly tell us that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem from David`s throne, however He rules through Israel. The Lord Jesus Christ sets up the kingdom rule on earth, then returns to the 3rd heaven where He rules over all.

    For example, the Queen rules over my country, Australia, but she doesn`t reside in my small country town. She didn`t have to move there to rule, but her authority & power is here.
    So the Lord of Heaven & the Universe will not move His eternal throne to earth but rule through a delegated king of Israel, as promised. (Jer. 30:19 Ez. 34: 23 & 24)

  251. New Jerusalem Nov 19th 2012

    Tim…..I believe that Jesus Christ has already been made King of kings.

    So WHAT is He reigning over; WHO is He reigning over NOW?

  252. Marilyn – did you mean Jer. 30:9…? rather than verse 19..?

    Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

    In His love,
    Roger

  253. NJ He currrently reigns over His Kingdom and its citizens

    In the future:
    At the sounding of the seventh trumpet, the kingdom of the world will become His Kingdom.

    He will also reign over Israel as their recognised and acknowledged King.

    Marilyn I’m not aware of any scriptural evidence that would suggest that Jesus returns to “the third heaven”.

    Also the end of revelation is clear when it states that the New Jerusalem descends to (a new) earth and God makes His dwelling place there among men. Literally setting up His eternal throne there.

  254. Andrew Nov 19th 2012

    DEWAYNE – You are wrong about the THOUSAND YEAR REIGN OF CHRIST-

    “The Thousand Years

    “As for the time period of a thousand years, the Greek term used is chilioi, which is the plural of chilias. However, this is a case where we cannot simply use Strong’s Concordance to prove the point. One must also know how Greek grammar works The term “thousand years” consists of an adjective (“thousand”) and a noun (“years”) which it is describing. Since the noun “years” is plural, Greek grammar demands that the adjective “thousand” must also be plural.

    This is different from English grammar, but we cannot judge Greek grammar by English rules. And so, while we might be tempted to read the literal Greek as “thousands (of) years”, in reality it should be read in English as “a thousand years.”

    We run across the same problem in 2 Peter 3:8. (Here Peter refers to Psalm 90:4.)

    8 . . . One day is with the Lord as a thousand (chilioi, “thousands”) years, and a thousand (chilioi, “thousands”) years as one day.

    Once again, in Greek, the adjective must agree with the noun that it describes. In this case, “thousand” must agree with the word “years”, which is plural. And so, while the literal Greek would read “thousands years”, in English we must render it a “thousand years” in order to allow our translation to conform to the rules of English grammar.

    By contrast, we should show an example where the word “thousand” is singular in the original Greek. Such is the case in Revelation 7, where we read, for example, in verse 5:

    5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand (chilias, singular). Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand (chilias). Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand (chilias).

    In this case, the word “thousand” is the noun, rather than the adjective. Thus, it does not need to agree with another word grammatically, even though we understand it to be referring to a plural number of Israelites. The word is a collective noun, much as our English words “sheep” or “deer”. Thus, it is written in the singular, even though technically there are TWELVE of these “thousands.”

    And so, while we encourage people to use a good concordance, we must yet use some caution and realize our limitations.

    Therefore, when John tells us in Revelation 20 that some will reign with Christ for a thousand years, the translation is correct, even though chilioi is technically plural.”

    http://nhbchristiantalk.webs.com/onethousandyeardebate.htm

    ENOUGH OF THIS “END TIME” DEBATE PLEASE.

    -Andrew Strom.

  255. Andrew – please delete this if inappropriate –

    A ‘live’ update from Israel, expressing concern for the people on both ‘sides’. May God be with them all, may many receive revelation, through the Holy Spirit, that Christ Jesus is Lord and Saviour.

    ” ……It’s one thing to watch on TV as rockets are being fired from Gaza into Israel, and to watch the Iron Dome system fire missiles to intercept them. It’s quite another thing to be there in person and hear the air raid sirens going off, and run for cover to the nearest bomb shelter, and see the contrails of the rockets and missiles screeching across the sky, and then hear the earth-shaking booms, and to feel your heart pounding in your chest as you thank God that He protected you….”

    “While I never felt scared (I certainly felt a surge of adrenaline, but also what the Bible calls “the peace that passes all understanding”), I certainly could better appreciate how difficult it must be to live a normal life when sirens keep going off and you never quite know where the rocket is coming from, or where it will hit, and how much time you have to get to safety…..”

    “…I was impressed with all the Israelis I saw who could bounce back very quickly from each attack with a calm determination to get right back to their business. But I also met people who were deeply shaken by the relentless attacks and were having a much harder time than their neighbors. Please keep praying for the millions on both sides of this border — Israelis and Palestinians — who are living inside the missile zone…”
    (Emphasis mine)

    Source and full text: http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/israel-at-war-day-6-today-i-went-into-the-missile-zone-and-heard-the-air-raid-sirens-saw-the-rockets-screeching-across-the-sky/

  256. Marilyn, I’ve gone through so many errors in my years. When I finally realized I wasn’t a theologin, (oh, I wanted to be) a teacher, pastor, just a little Christian girl totally awed by my King of Kings, I began to settle down and listen to Him, then trust Him, then Obey Him. Like Andrew, I can relate, when he was young.he had the Word, but didn’t have the Love yet figured out. When we are faithful, God will straighten us out. He has all the patience in the world, and I thank Him so. I think we were both kinda like Peter’s unction…”No, no God, not me, never me, I won’t deny You…You’re walking on water, let me join you, walk walk,splat! Then on the female side, Don’t know about Andrew here, but I am more like Martha…busy, busy, busy. Oh, Lord it’ll never get done, make Mary help me!”….So, you see only God is able to work with each and every individual on this earth. Under His guidance, we’ll get there, yes we will.
    .

  257. Sheeja John Nov 20th 2012

    They spoke thus about our Lord and Saviour Yeshua Ha Mashiach:

    – And when He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, “Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works? Is this not the carpentar’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?” – Mathew 13: 54-56
    – And the Jews marveled, saying,”How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”

    And they spoke thus about His disciples:

    – Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that THEY WERE UNEDUCATED AND UNTRAINED MEN, they marveled. And they realized that THEY HAD BEEN WITH JESUS. – Acts 4:13

    – But God chose the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things that are mighty: and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE. – 1 Cor. 1:27-29

  258. Marilyn Crow Nov 20th 2012

    Thank you Joan W. It really is humbling to be shaped by the master`s hand.

    Also thank you Roger. Yes the scripture should have been Jer. 30: 9

    Tim.
    I would like to answer your questions with out getting into too much end of the times of the Gentiles.
    Ps. 47 is about the Lord becoming the King over all the earth, subdueing the peoples under Him. V. 5 says He has gone up with a shout. Up to rule from His own throne/authority in the 3rd heaven. (Rev. 3:21)
    God does dwell with man through the New Jerusalem, as He dwelt with the children of Israel by means of the tabernacle. However God is over all & His throne/authority is established of old. Ps. 68:33 Deut. 10: 14.
    Also I believe good discussion of God, His character & His plans will not lead us into fruitless discussion. So I thank you again for your interest.

  259. Marilyn Crow Nov 20th 2012

    Clarification – God dwelling – Tabernacling but yes of course it will be different because of Jesus` sacrifice.
    Because the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven (to the principality & powers area) the Lord God will still dwell with His people & be their light & temple (worshipped) but God`s authority & power is above all.

    `He seated Him (Christ) at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality & power & might & dominion, & every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
    And He put all things under His feet…` (Eph. 1: 20 – 22)
    I hope that is clearer Tim.

  260. Marilyn Crow Nov 20th 2012

    P.S. That sentence should have read,
    `end of the times of the gentiles ruling the world.`

  261. watchful Nov 20th 2012

    God bless you Joan, I’m much comforted and encouraged and learning through the voices of my brethren and sistern here and just am enjoying everyone’s company whether I always understand or agree or not, it honestly is just nice to be with you all and I hope Andrew doesn’t mind too much me taking up space here in his on-line “living room” from time to time. I tend to be quieter than I used to be, that’s for the better, heh-heh. 😉 I wasted many years seemingly, nevertheless the Father has been faithful to bring me out and restore me back to a right foundation, so we’re really only beginning to build on it, there are things He has been gracious to give me some understanding of, and other areas where I am completely out in left field – good thing He is in the redeeming business and able to redeem the wasted years! There is that we all see through a glass darkly and that we only know “in part”, and it’s only a hunch but maybe this has to do with each one being “a part” of His Body, I just know I’m more content now with my portion and don’t need to grasp for knowledge so much anymore like I used to (oh my, He actually mocked me once, though He was kind to be gentle about it!), though of course I still need to grow and learn, but now it seems to be more at His pace and in His will for His purposes, and I’m able to be more at rest and truly appreciate the portion that others have to share. The most important thing to me now is that the washing of the water of the word is for the purpose of transformation and becoming more Christ-like, not for knowledge sake alone, because what we are being perfected in is love.

    Another hunch I have is that unity of the Body will (along with other things) have something to do with our learning to recognize and prefer, receive, the other parts of it..not in the way of receiving error at all, chances are we all still have some of that, but at least to love in spite of it, and have some idea of how to encourage and help each other continue to grow and not just sort of park in what we think we know. Anyway, those are lessons I’m learning and I guess that’s enough blathering for now and I will continue to enjoy the conversation, which is getting interesting because that is an area I lack in…

  262. Bless you, Watchful…how gentle and knowing your comments. We must learn to love one another, through His love for us, not as the world loves. Isn’t it miracules? And I’ve got good news for you, it only gets better and better…I’m sure you have that inkling. I too, love each and every soul commenting here. I also thank Andrew for his wisdom, love and nurtouring. I’m the worst speller in the whole wide world; that’s why I can’t do crosswords.

  263. This is an awesome word!! Right on! Also the book mentioned “The Myth of a Christian Nation” is great. Very challenging but great!