“NO INDIAN RESERVATIONS IN HEAVEN” – Comments?

COMMENT from HANS ERDMAN, MISSIONARY: “We have largely ignored this languishing mission field in our own backyard”. I have been saying this to whomever would listen, for the past 5 years. We became involved with Native American/First Nations missions after the doors closed to us in NW Russia, and have never regretted it. The fields are ripe for the harvest, but the workers are few. As Lee pointed out, we spend millions elsewhere, while domestic missions fall below the radar…”

THERE ARE NO INDIAN RESERVATIONS IN HEAVEN
-extracts by J. Lee Grady

God’s heart is broken over the spiritual condition of the Native
American community. Do you care?

Consider these facts:

◦Native Americans have the highest poverty and unemployment
rates in the United States. The poverty rate is 25 percent. Native
people living in Indian country have incomes that are less than
half of the general U.S. population.
◦Only 36 percent of males in high-poverty Native American
communities have full-time, year-round employment.
◦Nearly 10 percent of all Native families are homeless. The rate
of Native homes without electricity is 10 times the national average,
and 20 percent of Native households lack running water. The infant
mortality rate among Native people is about 300 percent higher
than the national average.
◦The poorest county in the United States is the Pine Ridge
Reservation in South Dakota, where the unemployment rate is at
a mind-boggling 80 percent. Life expectancy on this reservation
is the lowest in the Western Hemisphere, except for Haiti.
◦Rates of violent victimization for both males and females are
higher among American Indians than for any other race.
◦From 1999 to 2004, American Indian males in the 15- to 24-year-
old age group had the highest suicide rate compared to males of
any other racial group.
◦Native American men have been found to be dying at the fastest
rate of all people in the United States.

What do those figures say to you? I believe it is an absolute
travesty that those of us in the Christian community have not
fully acknowledged our forefathers’ role in perpetrating genocide
on our Native brothers. And it is pathetic that we have largely
ignored this languishing mission field in our own backyard while
we spend millions on our tech-savvy megachurches in white
suburbs. God forgive us.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost, the
apostle Peter declared from the book of Joel that one sign of the
Holy Spirit’s outpouring would be the empowerment of the poorest
of the poor. He said, “Even on My bondslaves, both men and
women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit, and they shall
prophesy” (Acts 2:18, NASB).

Surely Native Americans were on God’s heart when those words
were recorded. Yet many of us completely missed the point of
Pentecost. We made it about us. We chased after the anointing,
the chills, the hype and the charismatic circus—forgetting that
the reason we are anointed by the Spirit is to minister to those
who need Christ’s healing.

I am praying that the Spirit-filled community will renounce its self-
absorbed immaturity and begin to fulfill our true Pentecostal
mission. Pray for a spiritual awakening among Native people,
both on and off the reservation. Explore ways that you can build
bridges of reconciliation. And ask God how you and your church
should respond to the needs of Native people.

-READ THE FULL ARTICLE-

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/fire-in-my-bones/17810

Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on May 23rd, 2013 at 10:30 am.

86 comments

86 Replies

  1. I live on a rez and I see the horrible results of drugs and alcohol-torn apart families and hopelessness.We just had a horrible accident and a death and waiting to see if another girl will pull through. Three teenagers in an awful accident from alcohol-this is the usual. Our rez is in mourning. I lost my own son who was 16 and I know the Lord took him home so he would suffer no more from an illness.A few months before my child was taken home a promising young man died in an accident and another will be in prison(ALCOHOL). Pray for us as we have people who are trying to make a difference.Only God can make a real difference.

  2. HHHLGA May 23rd 2013

    Very good article. It will be interesting to see the input on this important topic.

    Peggy, my heart goes out to you. Thankyou for reminding us of the sad circumstances surrounding so many. I know
    God will press my heart in prayer for you and those you speak of. God Bless You!

  3. when I started in the ministry in 2004 one of the first persons I worked with was Andrew Strom when he lived in Kansas City. Andrew, 2 other brothers, and myself did some meetings in an area in South Dakota which was right next door to a reservation. we had the opportunity to go talk with a native pastor on the res during that time. every since that time I go back to that res each summer and hold tent meetings. almost every year at some point during our 4 day camp meeting we go around to all the natives present and wash their feet and ask for forgiveness. it is so powerful. to all who do native missions I know it is hard because most of the time they are just looking for hand outs and not hand ups but don’t give up because when we go back each year we do see some real fruit. some plant, some water, but God does the increase.

  4. The problem is the condition of the church. Professing Christians have not embraced the completed work of Christ which results in a passion to reach the lost. They claim to have the Holy Spirit but do not do the things the Holy Spirit is doing. The early church reached the world with the gospel because they were filled with the Spirit and consecrated to the will of God. Today, the church is filled with self and consecrated to flesh. Watch the two videos below to find the solution to this and the many other problems in the body of Christ:

    http://youtu.be/uaa1N13rwW8

    http://youtu.be/5Bd3OVgaxUU

  5. The article was well written and long overdo in being said. The church has been and remains remiss in many areas of evangelizing with the gospel. The world has seeped into the halls of holiness and infected the so called body of Christ Jesus making it largely ineffective. Sadly most mega churches and ministries miss the point and I fear are doomed in their complacency and love of all things worldly. We know from the Bible that only a remnant will get it right; a small few and it is my opinion that the few will be the least likely by the world and church’s standard. Native Americans have been politically abused, neglected and dismissed in this country for a long time but it should not be that way with God’s people. Salvation is for everyone…and that means everyone.

  6. The whole Native thing is such a complex and touchy issue. We have friends who are hard working, industrious, card carrying status Indians in Canada who do not rely on government subsidy. They are christians though so that helps somewhat. Both faith and education are a must have in order to get back on your own feet, something that is missing on many reserves. But after living on handouts for generations, it would be so hard to do anything else, to have enough desire to educate yourself and enough confidence to believe that you can add value to a company with your skills. But some have done exactly that, and realized that things aren’t going to change any time soon, so they may as well do something for themselves. I often hear the call for returning the land to its rightful
    owner, the first nations peoples, and that the treaties were not fairly dealt with. I don’t know if they were, or were not, as everyone seems to tell a different story. It’s so easy to be judgemental isn’t it.
    I remember picking up a native hitchhiker a while back in -25 degree weather with a blowing wind and when he got in, he said his hand was freezing cold from holding out the thumb. In my smarter than thou attitude I said he should have prayed about a ride, to which he calmly replied, ” I did, and then you stopped”. I let him off where he asked, at the Catholic Church. Oh, I’m a slow learner and need to get rid of my own arrogant pride, before I fall……again.

  7. camalunghi May 23rd 2013

    Interesting………Its a topic which may not be as gripping or controversial as others, but its just as important. We shall see how many post on this topic, so far only 5.

    The problems which native peoples suffer, are not only North America, its everywhere in the world, and have similarities.

    Where we live, the are no reservations, but the indiginous indians of course live in their own communities, basically favelas….and one can see how they have difficulty adjusting to a changing world. They are losing their identity and culture as they are absorbed into the mass of poverty and poor folk of Brazil.

    Here the ones we know, fished, catch crabs and shell fish to live. Working in a regular job is a foreign idea, if your descended from people who hunt and fish. basically live off the land….and for many there isnt much of a need for money if there is a plentiful supply of food. Well, thats no longer the case these days, pollution and invasion of native land completly wreck a way of life which existed before records began. Drugs and alcohol are particularly destructive in these communities. The government programes and handouts, dont fix the situation.

    There needs a great deal of prayer to know why native communities suffer so much and unable to adjust. While it is easy to blame the invaders whose culture dominates. The church hasnt done well in helping native peoples in adapt to a changing world. In fact when churches adopt the culture of the world to attract converts….it really shows the shallow discipling and preaching….The church need more preachers like General Booth, to give it the boot under their cosy bottoms….because on the day of the Lord….who do we think Gods wrath will be vented at the most? Those who are at ease in Zion and see the Gospel as a business model, and present Jesus as a slick, smart and cool guy. Where is Jesus today? is he part of a slick mega church programe…or would he be more at home seeking to save the most lost and broken? Those who know Jesus will know where He is and will know thats where He expects His people to be…..

  8. Clare Watts May 23rd 2013

    My friend Rick Walth amazes me with his outreach to the hurting and lost, and I truly thank him for what he has done and doing among the Indian peoples!

    I have been living and working with a large community of them in North Carolina, and have seen the heartbreaking results of the homelessness, drinking, drugs, stealing, violence – and the cycle of prison, which are “normal” amongst them here. But I have also seen the AMAZING results that Jesus has, can and DOES make in their lives when they have a revelation of Him. These people are SO SPECIAL! They have such caring, loving and gentle spirits, but Satan has built up HUGE generational strongholds in their lives. They HAVE been marginalized, and even the “white” education that has been offered to them in many cases was a joke to make it appear that they were being given all the help they could get. The kids would get passes for just “attending” school whether they learned anything or not, so illiteracy, and rebellion became rampant. It is quite normal for a Native American to carry a “blade” and just one word that may offend will bring on a fight where people get “cut”. I have seen it, and even been on the receiving end of violent attacks.

    It takes SO LITTLE to change their ways and thinking. ALL it takes is someone to SHOW them a “Better Way”…..and to bring HOPE, and LOVE, and peace and joy, forgiveness, NOT returning evil for evil, but pointing to the ONLY one Who has power to transform lives. Jesus. I am watching one 28yo precious young man in “lock-down” (solitary for 18months) in prison for drugs, violence, stealing, turn his life over to Jesus by simply showing him that there IS LIFE and HOPE in Him – something he didn’t know before! He is an amazing testimony to what God can and will do in the lives of these people if the church would just do what Rick and I, and others have done, and TAKE JESUS to those lost and dying beautiful people who need Him so much! I love these people! The Cherokee, Lumbee, and Coharie people from around here have an inner nobility that shines through even their worst messes! However, the one thing that is so hard to crack is their “native PRIDE” which they cling to because they have so little else to give them “value”.

    You want rewarding ministry? – take Jesus to these God-loved-and-precious people who need Him so much to transform their lives…..if God calls you, Go! Help those who need to know that we love them, and DO care about them. They surely do NOT need any more Casinos – they need to be set free from the past and the present by the ONLY one Who has the power to do this – Jesus.

  9. There is a huge divide in the hearts and minds of many N.A. aboriginal people and the ‘church’. This is primarily because the ‘church’ was an instrument that the governments of the day used in forced assimilation policies that continue to have multi-generational impacts to this day. When I say ‘church’ I don’t mean the true church/body, but those denominations that willingly became the arms of abuse in forced assimilation. My intent here is not to bash any particular ‘denomination’, but to bring home the point that there is a great divide between aboriginal people and the ‘church’ as a result of skewed perceptions in hearts and minds of what ‘church/religion’ is.

    I believe that the starting point for healing and deliverance in many individual and collective lives begins and ends with a clear vision, understanding and encounter with Christ’s true church. The foot washing that is a part of your ministry rick walth is a powerful encounter that demonstrates hands on the heart of the true Church/Body toward restoring hearts and minds toward opening eyes to see and restoring ears to hear the true heart of God toward his beloved.

    So despite the great divide of hurdles/oppression that aboriginal peoples world wide have to contend with let us pray believing that God whose heart is so tender toward those suffering, will call and send forth those whom He will use to bring healing, deliverance and restoration to hearts and minds as they embrace Him/His Body/His Church.

    I have been healed and delivered and loved through this experience and am witness to ‘fall out’ of ‘church’ driven governmental forced assimilation policies and the multi-generational impacts upon my family and community. Most importantly I am witness to the amazing love and saving grace of God’s healing hand upon my life and others through the ministry (five fold) of HIs Body/Church.

  10. Claudia May 23rd 2013

    All people need to be exposed to God’s Grace, Jesus Christ, no matter where they are located, on indian reservations or inner cities. Government handouts, drugs, and alcohol are all choices that people make. No one has to stay in inner cities or indian reservations where job opportunities are limited. It is a choice that they make. All indians by this time could have been assimulated into the mainstream of America had they made that choice.

    The high death rates are caused by drugs and alcohol…..not by the reservations……factors that if abused cause early deaths and bad health wherever they are found.

    Many individuals from inner cities and from the reservations have made the choice to take advantage of their educational opportunities, and to reject drugs and alcohol, embrace God’s standards and escape their circumstances and the government sugar daddy.

    Reservations and inner cities are not prison camps….people have free will to choose to better their lives. Bad mothers and fathers perpetuate the problem of abuse.

    God is all about looking to the future and not staying mired in the past wrongs, using them as an excuse to not live the life that He has offerred to all….whether free or slave.

    May the churches and the individuals reach out to ALL people on earth. May industry look towards setting up job opportunities near those people in need of work, who do not want to leave the area they are in. That is another choice.

  11. Betty Loewen May 23rd 2013

    The First Nations people are the KEY to the spiritual restoration of the Americas because they are the “gate-keepers”. If we Christians don’t wake up and recognize this, and begin to love our ‘neighbours’, Muslims will soon fill the vacuum. They are infiltrating reserves in the USA and making all kinds of financially-appealing “deals” with unsuspecting chiefs. And once they begin proselytizing and radicalizing the disaffected youth, LOOK OUT!

  12. 29 years ago, I was at the US Center for World Mission in Pasadena, California. One evening, I had prayer watch in Hudson Taylor Hall, as I knew it back then (The Center was formerly the Pasadena Nazarene College, which moved to Pt. Loma.).

    As I prayed and looked at the huge Dept of Defense (DOD) map of the world on the wall, I walked back and forth to pinpoint in my heart where the Lord wanted me to pray that evening, or for whom.

    It was the USA, and the natives of the land. As I sat down a short time later to mediate on Scripture, Acts 1:18 came to mind. Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, the uttermost parts of the world.

    The paradox hit me hard: World Mission, but right here in the USA… I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, and Washington State, where many names are those of Indian origin. My High School is named after the chief of the Yakima Tribe, Kamiakin.

    Even in the Cub and Boy Scout programs, these fostered respect for the Indians and their ways. Close family friends had Indian blood in their veins.

    So, This was a part of me. Years later, the Lord would characterize my life with a name that has an Indian ring to it. The unfolding was beginning to manifest in my life.

    I thought of a quote the Lord gave me years ago, in ministering to a close friend: “You can’t give Love on credit.” You have the substance on hand and in your heart, or you don’t.

    Such as it with the principle of Acts 1:8… If you can’t reach Jerusalem, your home town, how will you reach a foreign city? If you are not in tune with the region/province or state that you live in, how will you witness to a nation?

    And if you find yourself in conflict with a race, ethnic group, etc. such as the Samaritans were to the Jews, it is time to consider what we have to give…

    Can we deliver on the Love of God, or are we only able to hand out IOU’s?

    The issue of Samaria, is parallel to the USA and the Indian natives of North America. Where is the zeal, the Love, the passion for Christ to be the fragrance of life to them?

    As these revelations came to light, I transcribed the Lord’s dealings with me into the prayer log. I was broken, repentant, and short-sighted in my discernment.

    We need to go back folks… we need to go back, and do the first things… FIRST!

    A mission field sits at our door, and we put on blinders as while we race out to minister somewhere else.

    Today, these same people groups of the USA are no less relevant to missions than any other on the globe. If anything, as a citizen of the USA, and even more so of Heaven’s Kingdom, I have a responsibility to reach these people with the Word of Life that delivers them from death.

    The atrocities of the past are one thing, to perpetrate and extend them into the present is an abomination to God. If we can’t produce the Love of God for these Indian natives in North America, how can we have an effective witness in Papua New Guinea or the Middle East?

    As I said before, we cannot give Love on credit, especially God’s. It is that simple. And if there was ever a group of people due and owing on receiving that Love, it is them!

    That alone should drive our hearts. If it doesn’t, I have a good suggestion for any sort of mission enterprise: Stay home, don’t go! The reasons are simple enough.

    Michael David “Stormwalker” Severson 🙂

  13. wineskin May 23rd 2013

    Let your missions never forget that our ancestors once beat an entire continent of people off their land and then shoved our Christianity down their decimated throats as a loving recompense. Our modern-day sorrow for our past acts of greed, murder and imprisonment is good, but our modern-day Christian zeal to help lift what we once knocked down can do a further harm to the victims if, once again, we come to them with self-serving agendas and forked tongues.

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.” ~Matt 23

  14. The great commission is not about “social justice” or making “reparations” or feeling guilty for sins we ourselves did not commit, it is about sharing the Gospel and saving souls. Certainly we should have empathy for people and their sufferings, both past and present.. but we are living in the NOW and saving their souls NOW while we still have opportunity is the key.

    The very real strongholds today over the Native American people’s holding them in bondage are tremendous spiritual ones.

    Being aware of their current plight and knowing they are LOST is more than sufficient incentive for the Holy Spirit to work His genuine conviction in the hearts of truly saved Christians. Understanding just how far their dearly held and revered pagan beliefs that are rooted not just in them as individual but within the actual culture itself have distanced them from the one true God whose main desire above all is to know them personally and rescue them from their sins, that should be the motivator to move our hearts in their behalf.

    I lived a couple years in Choctaw County, OK. No reservations there and every Native American I knew was a Christian. Many non-native Christians partnered with Native American Christians involved in local mission work of needy Native Americans in the area.

    Political correctness may be keeping some of today’s Christians from fully evangelizing a people who have such a great love of their own culture and respect of their own “spirituality” that they fear to step on toes. Boldness and fearlessness in sharing the gospel is the answer. Unfortunately there are many missions these days who would gladly meet the materials needs of the lost yet hesistate to share a gospel that might truly “offend”, convict and actually save.

    What we owe it to ALL peoples is to share the soul saving gospel message of Jesus Christ (who was no respector of persons) and it should be our desire fueled by the Holy Spirits conviction to want to evangelize and share the gospel with them..

  15. Yes it is good that others look to the native as the rez’s is still called a prison of war camp. I’m full blood native . we as natives have in our DNA that spiritual part of our life. it was taken away , as we couldn’t worship in our own way. not until 1976 were we given our right to worship. we are a spiritual people, so much has been taken from us our language our hunting fishing our pride in who we are as a people. The time is coming we will walk into our place in the spirit realm, as a people and not as cookie cutter stamp out of what others feel a christian should be or look like, but as how creator meant us to be. the program of kill the Indian and save the man has had it’s effect. much to heal much to forgive, much to look forward to in being freed up from the past and be able to walk into the future. we are a people who have had every thing of worth taken or stolen from us. only creator can put back the people as he wants us to be. keep praying keep believing keep the faith and love of creator on the move, it will happen among our people. blessings

  16. Lightning Storm May 23rd 2013

    Excellent subject that needs to be brought into the Light.

    Thank you for the article, Andrew Strom.

    The posts, thus far, have added “meat” to the article.

  17. I agree that we need to look more at reaching the native population….but what I am seeing in our Canadian culture is an entire unreached generation or even two. When I talk to young people now, they know NOTHING of Christ, except as a swear word. Many *church* kids have never seen a person born again, really born again, in their entire lifetimes! The fields in North America at every level are white unto harvest. It’s high time we grabbed our sickles and got to work, with natives and non-natives. People are dying…

  18. This is a message for the times, and to be addressed for all aboriginal peoples of all continents who’ve been barrelled over by colonialist power-hungry white men. Being from Canada, I know some who live in those, ‘reservations’. While some do manage to leave the comfort of the reservation and seek careers and life among the majority, others have a deep generational sense of tradition where family and community is important, and many can’t leave, because honor to family is so important. Yet, some become, like any of us, unmotivated by the world, and, where a people have no vision, that people perish.

    Christians need to have a vision, so even more those who are still in the world, and when communities who relied for generations on traditions never found the true God in Jesus Christ, they become despondent, depressed and suicidal. It is so true how our church community has overlooked these precious people who Jesus died for, and how ignored their history is, and how the curse that white men perpetrated on them keeps the young generations from ever overcoming the feelings of inferiority. The culture doesn’t come right out and say it, but by ignoring their pain, it basically says they aren’t worthy. That subtle sense of inferiority is a big reason that many feel they are shackled or refused acceptance by the culture, and by the people of God. No wonder many feel there is no purpose, and self-medicate and and express frustration and anger and commit suicide.

    I can relate somewhat to people who’ve been put away to pasture and given land or government entitlements to appease them. My own childhood experience came with feeling inferior to others and I feel that burden for those who were made to feel the same. I just pray that the Lord can put some of these in my path and I can share God’s love, mercy and goodness to them. Love you all!!! Thanks Lee Grady and Andrew Strom and everyone, who are by brothers and sisters who I am so thankful for, to be able to come here and contemplate things.

  19. Jda016 May 23rd 2013

    I truly had no idea it was this bad in Reservations. The media would have me believe that many Native Americans are getting large stipends from casinos, depending on the tribe.

    I feel the Native American culture has a lot of strongholds and demonic oppression over it as others have said. The great atrocities done to Native Americans are inexcusable and the indians need mercy and compassion, but they also need pray to break the tribal bloodlines that root themselves in paganism.

    As a man of Irish heritage, I felt it was important to break alcoholism and anger/bad tempers over me because both can be very prevalent in the Irish community. So also I believe Native Americans need to be loosed from their spiritual connection to their land (shamanism).

    Many Native American religions are tied to the earth, trees, animals, and all that is around them. I believe that is one of the reasons it is so difficult for some of them to leave reservations and find a better life. In some cases, they are literally bound spiritually to the land.

    We often want to identify ourselves as Americans, Canadians, Australians, Cherokee, etc, but our real identity has to be based in Christ. I think it is particularly difficult for Native Americans to give up their identity to their tribe (as it is so ingrained) and see themselves as Coming to Christ.

  20. I think Lyn was so correct in her response saying-
    “The very real strongholds today over the Native American people’s holding them in bondage are tremendous spiritual ones”.
    All the indigeneous peoples of the world have similar issues, as already stated by different responders.

    In NZ the Government have paid out billions of dollars to tribes for stolen land and other rights, as well as put millions of dollars into the language, eduction centres and healthcare. But depsite this
    input not a lot has changed re prison and social economic statistics for these Maori people. Often the tribal chiefs have corrupted or invested unwisely with their Govt payout so their people do not see the light of day on any money or support. However some tribes in the South Island are doing very well, are very wealthy and have invested wisely to support their tribal people.

    Each Maori person in NZ has the opportunity now to achieve
    if they want to, however it is not just about culture, it is about family responsibility too. Those Maori who have left their tribal homes in rural areas and gone to Australia to secure employment have done very well. The issues are often around living in rural areas where there are no jobs, and people are moving all over the world to find work these days, no matter who they are.

    I work with needy children from ethnic communities, both Maori and Pacific Island. Some cultural practices work against their health and progress, elements of control and abuse are common because of the structures of their cultural communities, women are often disenfranchised, with a propensity towards drugs and alcohol as an easy solutuon to solve problems.

  21. Just finishing off -lost my website connection

    Many Maori believers coming to healing sessions need deliverance from their cultural practices, which involve witchcraft and other demonic strongholds. There are genetic curses with regard to poverty, abuse, health and addiction as a result of practices that invite tribal and cultural curses. So as Lyn said -First and foremost -preach to them the Gospel and CULTURE of CHRIST.

  22. Yes jda it is a difficult thing to give up tribal identity, and note that while you have said that “We often want to identify ourselves as Americans….our real identity has to be based in Christ.” aboriginal peoples in this world as a rule have been relegated to the margins of society so there is no real sense of ‘belonging‘ as Americans, Canadians….which is I see as a real blessing at the end of the day. However clinging to cultural identity is not just an ‘option’ for many – it is a lifeline where no other exists. The heart of this article is about praying for spiritual awakening among Native people and the mission being to go into this field ripe for harvest.

    I agree whole heartedly that our ‘real‘ identity is based in Christ ONCE we’ve actually come into new life/identity in Him. So the long and the short of it is who will GO into this ripe field as commissioned by God to set these captives free. And yes I agree that there are many traditional beliefs that need be laid down in the process of coming into a full relationship with Christ, just as with ANY other idols based in deception (think about it – materialism and a host of other sundry idols in modern day society such as music, tv…anything that is not rooted in Christ and are adored), yet God has been/is gracious and long suffering with us in our stumbling journeys to walk the narrow way as he compassionately sets us free, delivering and healing in love. This is what we need to bear in mind when we consider the ‘poor’ spiritual conditions of any peoples.

  23. This is a real surprise.

    I always thought the Indians received money from the government through our tax dollars and money from the casinos.

    Its amazing how this has never been mentioned by the media.

    GaryB

  24. His words are correct and easy to write. He lacks ministry experience among Native Americans.

  25. DonaldN May 23rd 2013

    Any time a cultural gospel is preached it ends up as disaster.

    1 Cor 2:1-2
    2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
    2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

    This is the only message that will get down to the root of any culture and reach the heart of the person.

  26. DonaldN May 23rd 2013

    In fact, I know a whole bunch of “pale face” folks that need to hear this simple message.

  27. Cultural blind spots are so hard to see in ourselves, especially if we are the culturally dominant people group. All Christians tend to filter out those passages in scripture that don’t ‘fit’ with their cultural glasses. Like the emerald glasses worn by the ‘masses’ in the Wizard of Oz our cultures tend to create blind spots that hinder our ability to recognize different colours in the world around us. A classic example is noticeable in some of the comments above about history and treaties. We all view history differently according to the cultural ‘worldview’ and values that we grew up in. Most of us have a Western worldview which is based upon a Greco/Roman concept of linear time. Our Western secular culture therefore walks into the future with it’s back on the past (and thus we as Western Christians tend to do this as well).

    In contrast to this a 1st world culture like the American Indian, will walk into the future with their backs facing the past. Is this wrong? Maori culture certainly has this world view and I have observed many other first world cultures like the American Indians, and the Aborigines having the same understanding. Did you know that this concept is closer to the ancient Hebrew understanding of time than our own sophisticated Western culture. Yes 1st world cultures are actually closer to the ancient Hebrew culture than our own Western culture. There are just so many lessons that await those humble enough to learn from cultures similar to the Ancient Hebrews than ourselves. Are we humble enough to learn from those we judge as worthy of our pity but unworthy of our time?

    Every nation has been foreordained by our Lord to occupy time and space on the his planet. We have all been given an inheritance. One of the most important gifts from our ancestors lies in the languages we have been given. We find within these languages the remnants of word pictures from Babel that reveal insights into Yahwehs identity. Every culture has them. I will mention two from my own experience since I am half Maori and half European descent.

    In European culture the Language forms that were given by the Lord at Babel from Japheth down to the present day European languages are primarily dualistic in form. Thus the spiritual inheritance that the Lord has given to Japeth’s descendants is filled with abstract dualistic opposites. For example the word for Yahweh in English is ‘God’ derived from the ancient Germanic word for the Supreme Being which is Gud. “GUD” is also the root word for the English stative word ‘good’. In English the word God is located in ‘opposition’ to the word Devil. Likewise good is placed in ‘opposition’ to the word evil. This is how Greek derived cultures think – in opposing dualities. Everything in European thinking from theology, (God / devil), to morality (good – evil), politics (right & left), debating (right or wrong), to science (thesis / antithesis) is understood in dualities. European Christians need to understand this aspect of their culture for both its strengths and also it’s weaknesses. Theology is no exception. Dualistic thinking can create railway tracks in the carnal mind of humanity that sometimes take us to destinations that God never intended.

    When dualistic thinking it is not surrendered to the Spirit of Christ, it can become one of the mechanisms that Satan uses to ‘separate’ and destroy the unity of denominations and churches. Satan understands that all he has to do is to ‘polarise’ issues into two different ‘camps’ and potentially he has won a distracting victory over the gathering of ‘Greek thinking’ saints. Therefore this potential ‘inheritance’ that God has given to Japeth’s descendants has become one of the primary mechanisms responsible for the ‘abstract’ doctrinal divisions within Christ’s body. Christians in the West especially need to understand their culture from Satan’s vantage. All cultures need to recognize the pitfall and strengths inherent in their own corporate thinking. Satan has a different, but equally effective, cultural strategy for each ‘ethnos’ (language group). He desires to disqualify the spiritual inheritance that Christ foreordained from Babel to be given to each people group as a revelation of his own glory.

    I compare my European inheritance with my Maori inheritance. Polynesian cultures are derived from Shem. They were also given a revelation by the Lord at Babel. The Maori word for ‘god’ is the word atua – which means to ‘stand up’ (referring to male leadership). It is also closely related to the Maori word matua meaning ‘father’. They come from the same root word ‘tu’ meaning to stand. Maori understanding of Yahweh then is primarily a relational action meaning a ‘father who stands’. Fathers are meant to stand strong on behalf of their families to represent them. This is not an abstract concept – this is a ‘relational experience’. This is the reason why Maori don’t value what you think on an abstract level, they are far more interested in their relationship with you. Like all cultures this leads to certain strengths & certain weaknesses in thinking, which need to be understood & transformed by the renewing work of the Holy Spirit. Remember it is the Holy Spirit who transforms us by the renewal of our minds (Rom12:1-3). It is not rational logic that reveals Christ in our hearts.

    Jesus said unless we become like little children (in those areas where we actually possess little knowledge that) we will not inherit the kingdom of God. If the global body doesn’t humble itself and begin to learn from cultures that are closer to the ancient hebrews culture, then we are not going to inherit what God wants to reveal of knowledge about himself. All cultures possess word pictures that our Lord has left in vestigial language form for the body of Christ to redeem. It takes time to understand these cultures, it takes time discover the Lords purposes in giving birth to these language forms. Cultures like the American Indian are important because our Lord has not yet finished revealing his story. He is not going to come yet because we have not yet fulfilled this part of his great commission. All cultures have yet to come into their purchased glory. That full glory I believe will require much suffering in order for us to come to maturity in Christ. The Moravian ‘war cry’ comes to mind. “May the Lamb of God receive his reward of his suffering”. Amen

  28. we wouldn’t need any tax dollars, if what was stolen was given back with interest. we don’t need the second coming of the missionary’s or narrow mind thinkers. the problem is and has been church’s that have divided up our people as if we were a crop. we are people who have been stolen from abused all in the name of church and government . step back take a breath and how about ask us what we need instead of pushing things on us that we have already had pushed down our throat’s. as a Chief and a full blood native I’ve been taught by my elders about god the father god the son and spirit. it is in our teachings. pray about your own demons and stop judging a people by what you don’t know. creator needs to be listen to and heard by all. not trying to offend any one but please remember we are a people not some one to have things done too. Blessings

  29. I’m glad to hear that the Lord has placed these native peoples on Christian hearts. I’ve long wondered about the phenomenon of sending missionaries to the ends of the earth and closing our eyes to the spiritual needs so close at hand.
    Are there mission schools where missionaries can be prepared to minister to the specific tribal needs to native peoples? I believe that Calvary Chapel has a training center in the Phillipines. Is there anything of the sort for preparing Christians to minister to the American Indians?
    Certainly much prayer is needed that the Lord send just the right people to do just the right job at just the right time. The solution is found in Christ Jesus.

  30. crossjordan7 May 24th 2013

    The only comments that makes any sense in analysing the plight of the “Native Americans” are the comments made by Claudia above. First of all let me say, I don´t have any indian blood in me as far as i know. I was born in the state of Kentucky, United States of America. If that don´t make me a Native American, then what in the name of common sense am i? As far as “Taking the land away from the indians”, if the settlers had not come to America, and built towns, churches, and farms, america would still be a howling wilderness, with nomadic tribes killing each other. There has been more indians killed by other indians than all other people combined have ever killed. I am presently a missionary in the country of mexico, however, i began my missionary journeyy some 40 years ago working with the American indians. I worked for 14 years among the Aleut of the southern part of Alaska, and also the Inupiat Eskimos. After that i was working on the Warm Springs reservation in the central part of Oregon for many years. In all those years, i saw very little tangible fruit among those people. I was never able to get inside the mind of am American indian. For the most part those people will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear. I have had a church full of people all year long on the reservations, until pow wow time rolled around, then the church would empty out and all of them except a very few would be out to the Pow Wow dancing and chanting to those drums. After the Pow Wow was over they would be back in church. Not all of them are like this of course. There are some indian people whose testimonies ring clear in my head even today. But most of them are exactly as i have described. Claudia hit the nail right on the head with her comments. The plight of these people lies squarely with the government, and thier cradle to the grave wellfare. They need to be taken off the reservations and assemliated into the main stream of society. If they lose thier identity as “Native Americans”, so be it. I lost my original identity somewhere along the line, and i am doing just fine. I could care less what is in my background. Let me tell you a little story about what i was faced with, and what any other missionary planning on going to the reservations will be faced with. While working on the Warm Springs reservation i ran into a woman archelogist that the tribe had hired to go in front of the timber crews to mark indian burial grounds so the timber crews would not desecrate a burial site. The woman was a very intellegent person. She walike right up to me and said “you are the missionary arn´t you”, I replied, “yes”. She said, with the indians cheering her on, “You have no right to come here and change these peoples religion”. She said, “These people had thier religion thousands of years before your religion ever came into being.” She ran her mouth right up in my face for about 15 minutes. I said, “If you are done talking, i have something to say to you”. I preach and practice the Judeo Christian relegion founded by a man by the name of Jesus who is called Christ. My religion puts restraints on my appetite, and carnal nature. My relegion tells me, Thou shalt not steal. That mmeans that i can´t take something away from my neighbor that he has worked for. By relegion tells me that, Thou shall not commit adultry. That puts a restraint on me that forbids me to sneak into my neighbors house and take advantage of his wife while he is out to work. My relegion tells me that i can´t beat my wife, and give my kids black eyes. And whenever a man has a religion that allows him to do all these things, then i have a right to change that mans religion. The cheering of the indians got quite, because they knew i was telling the truth. This educated fool of a woman also got quite and walked away. I said all of this in order to say this. The solution to these peoples problems goes far beyond merely feeling sympathy for them. The solution even goes far beyond just preaching the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to them. There has to be a fundimental change in thier life style, and way of thinking, and i am not someone just talking off the top of my head, i have “been there and done that”. This is getting quite long. I could write a volume on this subject. My advise to the missionaries that are planning on going is, Get prayed up and stay prayed up, your work is cut out for you. Discouragement is going to be your biggest enemy. Everyone re-read Claudias comments above. She hit the nail right on the head.

  31. Averyl May 24th 2013

    Anaru and Raven, – AMEN!!!
    God bless you brothers.

    My family & self were involved about 15 years ago with the world gatherings of indigenous Christians, here in NZ called Hui Karaiti, meaning Christian meetings. This bridging of the wide gap between the descendants of Shem & Japheth was begun by the late Monte Ohia.
    I understand that this movement came in for a lot of criticism but it served a vital purpose.

    We Western sons of Japheth forget that our culture dominates Christendom, that it is not superior despite it’s apparent progressive civilisation & material prosperity, and that there is a lot we can learn from indigenous cultures to better enable us to glorify God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

  32. Reading through all the excellent contributions on the plight of many cultures and ethnicities worldwide, the bottom line is, to really succeed in a world controlled by satan, we do need Christ.
    No matter who it is, with the enemy in these end times increasing his endeavours to destroy this earth and the people therein, no-one culture can exist successfully without Christ -not because we can’t eventually supply these often disadvantaged people with good water, sewage drainage, build roads, bridges, railway lines, provide ways to cultivate food, improved healthcare and employment provision – NGO’s are busy worldwide doing that – both secular and Christian people, but because we are fighting spiritual princapilites and powers worldwide. Such powers capture Governments, who in turn do not support the poor and needy of a society, religious and ethnic discrimination occurs like that we saw in the Rwanda genocide, the Armenian genocide,
    the Cambodian genocide, the Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia genocides, South African apartheid, Irish religious war, and today in Nigeria, Southern Sudan, Somalia, Mali and other African nations. Notwithstanding the so called “Arab spring”. It is about power and control -the enemy seeking to get control through evil men.

    With many indigenous people like the Australian Aborigines, NZ Maori, USA/Canadian Indians, South American Indians, South African native people and other nations that were the target of early European settlement and colonisation, the colonial powers behind those foreign Governments exploited the native populace in these lands for their own good and agendas.

    Native peoples had their land stolen, their language eroded, their culture assimilated into the colonial culture (whether it be Spain, England, Portugal, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, etc).

    Generations of abuse take their toll and parents impart their ‘woes’ on their children, even if the times have inproved. Many children of Holocaust parents will describe a very tough childhood and have to throw off the same ‘chains’ as their parents endured, as if they themselves had been shackled. It can take a few generations to see liberty in a certain culture/ethnic group that has gone through much trauma.

    A prophetic word that came through from a Prayer for Israel Conference in 2002

    “All nations will stream to the hill of Mt Zion
    All nations will bow the knee at my most Holy Mountain
    Palestinians, Jews, Arabs, peoples from all over the world
    Even as the prophets of old have foretold it to be
    Moses, Abraham and Isaac, my servants of old
    But be alert, be aware, be knowledgeable
    For the time is not as yet
    There is to be much travail and trouble to come upon the nations of the earth
    There is much blood yet to be spilt, cities to be destroyed
    Mothers weeping for their sons
    Much destruction from the horsemen and the Napoleons of this world and from the wicked schemes and devices of evil men in dark and hidden places
    Even now my name and the power of prayer holds back the tide of evil that would completely swamp the earth if it could
    If it wasn’t for My name and the power of praise and prayer
    Even now the earth would be destroyed
    So continue to be alert, continue in prayer, praise and worship
    Be aware in these times now and to come”

    I met a Lebanese man in Oman in 2001 who had given up his Moslem culture and had no faith in any culture or Government. His childhood backyard had been a war zone -he was lost and bereft because he had seen so much fighting between so many factions of cultural, religious and ethhnic peoples. His only hope was indeed Christ which I shared with him that day! Only Christ can restore the “years that the locust took” and only Christ can bring that much needed restoration and self esteem to assist people to go on with life in a successful way.

  33. 1st world people don’t need hand outs, nor do we need social programs. We only need travailing prayer as servants of Christ abandoned themselves to do the will of the Master – no less and no more.

    In the history of every country there exist these faithful soldiers in Christ. I Seek their histories, I want to discover their spiritual disciplines, I want to follow their examples. I don’t care about the fluff of recent attempts at evangelism. I look at the real examples of powerful revivals of the 1830’s and 40’s amongst Maoridom In New Zealand, where over 70% of the nation turned to Christ. Or amongst the great awakenings of America. What began their sovereign moves of God? It was disciplined prayer great travailing prayer.

    David Brainard is a good example of what we all must become in order to see our ministries succeed. David Brainerd consistently and fervently interceded for the lost souls of the American Indians. Often he would travail with such earnestness that when he rose from his knees he was covered in sweat and could hardly walk straight. Like the persistent widow in Luke 18, David Brainerd’s prayers were finally answered. Entire camps of Indians were converted by the power of God as he proclaimed a message of repentance and grace.

    “Old men and women who had been drunken wretches for years, and little children not more than six or seven years of age appeared in distress for their souls. There was almost universal praying and crying for mercy. Many could neither go nor stand.”

    The countless hours spent in prayer and fasting, his faithfulness in spite of physical weakness and having to endure the most terrible hardships, were now rewarded openly. The fire of the Lord fell. The remarkable thing was that all this happened at a time when he confessed that his hopes were at their very lowest. He had seriously entertained thoughts of giving up while on the very brink of glory and blessing.
    Brainerd now saw a remarkable change in the lives of the Indians. He recorded in his diary, “I know of no assembly of Christians where there seems to be so much of the presence of God, where brotherly love so much prevails . . . ”
    David Brainerd poured a lifetime of holy passion, prayer and preaching into four short years. He ministered from 1743- 1747, dying of tuberculosis at the age of 29, “Brainerd once wrote in his diary, I longed to be a flame of fire continually glowing in the divine service and building up of Christ’s kingdom to my last and dying breath.” That prayer was abundantly answered.

    If you find that your ministry to others is powerless. Your keys are in the prayer life of godly saints that have already gone before us. There are always good examples of faithful ‘missionaries’, seeing powerful moves of God in the histories of every country. It is just that we haven’t seen so many of recent times.

  34. Lightning Storm May 24th 2013

    Religion has brought more damage and suffering, IN THE NAME OF JESUS, to the world than any world war.

    The POWERFUL PRESENCE of the Holy Spirit is what brings repentance and transformed lives. (and so much more…but for the sake of keeping on topic I limit it to these )
    NOT Religion or Governments.

    If your life is POWERLESS, its because you have not SURRENDERED ALL.

    ABSOLUTE SURRENDER to their LORD AND MASTER Jesus, is the COMMON DENOMINATOR of the historical revivals and the SAINTS who were used in those revivals.

    A twofold book by Andrew Murray has described this condition in the most accurate way that I have ever read.

    The book is entitled:

    Humility & Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray (Dec 17, 2012)

  35. Desmond May 24th 2013

    I feel for Raven when he says
    the program of kill the Indian and save the man has had it’s effect. much to heal much to forgive, much to look forward to in being freed up from the past and be able to walk into the future. we are a people who have had every thing of worth taken or stolen from us. only creator can put back the people as he wants us to be.
    We wouldn’t need any tax dollars, if what was stolen was given back with interest. we don’t need the second coming of the missionarys or narrow minded thinkers. the problem is and has been churches that have divided up our people as if we were a crop. pray about your own demons and stop judging a people by what you don’t know.
    Bill writes:
    The whole Native thing is such a complex and touchy issue. Sure, but why are most native Americans in lousy, desert backwaters? Because your forefathers chased the remnant there after murdering the rest.
    AM says.
    the enemy is princapilites and powers worldwide, then goes on to lump the Rwanda genocide, the Armenian genocide, the Cambodian genocide, the Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia genocides, etc. with South African apartheid.
    I would like AM to know that there are now 40,000,000 black people in South Africa, a land just twice the size of Texas, whose prosperity, infrastructure and low infant mortality are almost totally due to the kind of people we were, whites who did not murder their black brethren. 7.5% of us paid income tax to carry the rest. Most of us treated our “natives” with respect and care. Most of us white a brown people stood in line to vote for giving the blacks equality when we were finally allowed that vote by the National Party government, against whom we voted for generations.
    AM please show me which of these: USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, has 40,000,000 indigenous people. NONE. Not even ALL TOGETHER, And you have the nerve to lump us South Africans with the killers, like your ancestors were.
    Who asked the USA to interfere in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan and kill hundreds of thousands of their people? You Americans have done it because it is second nature to you, hero-worshipping Custer and his murderous armies that slaughtered Native men, women and children, drove the rest into the bitter cold of winter, and into dry gulches.
    I HAVE been there and seen the struggling FIRST PEOPLE of America , Raven’s people, in several States of the USA and I have studied their history of persecution, lies and sheer murder by the recent forebears of the people who now want to push Faith, Hope and Charity down their throats.
    Sure, “South African native people and other nations were exploited the native populace in these lands for their own good and agendas.” Yes but then it was put right; and did you know that slavery was abolished in South Africa 80 YEARS BEFORE THE USA?
    When are you Americans and Canadians going to put things right and give back a fair amount of the land to its rightful owners? Take the massive beam out of your eyes before you go in preaching the Gospel, or else it will never be heard. Washing feet now and then is superficial!

  36. fabakary May 24th 2013

    As short as Life is, the lack of a daily bread, and basic necessities makes it looks a billion years away. The next hour to come, looks like another days to come. One scientist say “time is relative “ and there some truth in that .Such extreme poverty makes life look like a curse and can easily lead to many life of wickedness. May God peace visit this native Indian American. May they come into the realization in the general sense there is hope beyond the aid of other men. That as long as they are no longer slave of any man they have now the power, to be who God created to be, to make positive changes in their environment. Leaning on the defeat of the past is to keep being defeated as this is true in the spiritual so is it true in the natural. I am born and raise up in an environment where many a majority of people are made to believe the white man is some “super human being” . And this alone is defeat. And it can be hard to try to remove such nonsensical concepts from their minds. Until this people get rid of such ideas one way or another they will be limited psychologically . When they are looking for solution they look to the “white man “ . When the white man give no solution they remain defeated. While God created us all to be dependant on one way or another either physically or the things of the spirit , but it is never God will that such relationship will be the final say. Not everyone care about his neighbor and while God will judge the man that closes his bowel of compassion to the needy on the day of judgment , yet the rich neighbor is not the final say of the needy

  37. There are no churches into the occult in Heaven either. I don’t think that the Christian coven is going to be the solution.

  38. Clare Watts May 24th 2013

    Claudia said that the Indian people had choices. True. The problem is that you can’t CHOOSE ANYTHING if you don’t KNOW and have been SHOWN what the options are. The ones that I know and live with, lived as “back-woods” folk who only KNEW what was around them…..and the behavior patterns, attitudes and mindsets were forged by their environment. I f you said to them, “You don’t HAVE to live like this, start making RIGHT choices for your lives and put this behind you!” they would have NO IDEA what you were talking about. The only way is to SHOW them, and TELL them, and give them a REASON to WANT to change. They are where they are now because of what the invading peoples did to them over the centuries. Just like Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and wherever the colonizers went “in the name of God”. They have paid a terrible price ever since by the introduction of the invader’s diseases, alcohol, drugs, violence, stealing their lands and way of life…. and if we try and tell them that it was done by “Christian” folk, it is a hard thing to try and SHOW them a different Christianity that is loving and caring, and accepting of them! We have a lot to repent of, and a lot to mend.

  39. Sharon May 24th 2013

    one line in the artical stood out, it was: ‘self absorbed immaturity”.
    This pretty much sums us all up, one culture or another.
    And the answer given eaelier by Lyn if I’m not mistaken was
    Give the gospel and the culture of Christ. It’s really that simple!
    Religion never works because native americans dont have the money to pour in. And why should they?
    Too long this division of so called cultures has made many stumble.

    Lord Jesus in your name I ask for forgiveness of my own self absorbed immaturity.

  40. Barry Schmidt May 24th 2013

    Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead), (Galatians 1:1 NASB)

    The First Nations people of Notth America have had men sent by men to preach the gospel to them for generations now to little or no effect.
    First the Catholics proselytized them by forcefully removing their children into residential schools to be abused by pediphile priests and angry nuns.
    Then the Protestants ( both Pentecostal and non Pentecostal) sent missionaries to them – both bragging of many “conversions” but there was little or no fruit of genuine repentance and changed lives. The saying common to those who live near or with First Nations people and reserves is that every native North Amercican has been born again at least 3 times!!!

    What is the problem? They are all MEN SENT BY MEN!
    Let God send men and the results will show!
    Men like David Brainard! Johnathon Edwards prayed for God to send someone to the First Narions people and God answered and sent Brainerd!

    When God in answer to prayer sends missionaries they will not come in the wisdom of men but I’m a demonstration of full conviction and the power of the Holy Spirit- They don’t need more “other tongues” . Brainerd’s little tribe never spoke in other tongues but they had FIRE!

    The NA natives need TONGUES OF FIRE! Where is the FIRE?

    The best thing any of us can do for the Notth American indigenous people IS THIS:
    Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.” (Matthew 9:38 NASB)

  41. Barry Schmidt May 24th 2013

    THIS IS ALWAYS CREED OF EVERYONE WHO CLAIM TO REJECT THE GOSPEL BECAUSE ITS THE CHURCHES FAULT:
    I am a victim.
    My fathers were victims!
    I am a victim !
    Restore what was MINE and all will be well!

    The TRUTH IS THAT JESUS CHRIST DOESN’T SAVE, FORGIVE AND REGENTATE VICTIMS!
    He saves VICTIMIZERS ( sinners not victims)!

    Placation, paternalism and restitution of lands WILL NEVER DELIVER NA FIRST PEOPLE’S FROM THIER SIN AND BONDAGE!

    That is a myth! If that were the case every people group who has some history of colonialism, conquering, subjugation or cultural genocide would have to be placated and made restitution BEFORE THEY WOULD REPENT AN BELIEVE THE GOSPEL!
    The gospel RECONCILES – plus nothing!!!

  42. Barry Schmidt May 24th 2013

    We have the richest First Nations reserve in the world just south of where I was raised in central Alberta Canada. They have the oil rights on the Samson First Nations Reserve. Every man woman and child is worth over $300000.00 dollars on that reserve. They all live in large estates, have all their financial needs met extravagantly . They have had several delegations from church and government come humbly apologizing for past abuses by the Europeans.

    Yet they are in deeper bondage, sin, idolatry and brokenness than any other reserve in Canada- they have the highest number of murders , the greatest number of criminal gangs, the highest level of drug and alcoholism and the highest rate of teen suicide of any of the other reserves .

    Lets get REAL! Money, restitution, placation WILL NEVER SAVE FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE- the proof is there for all to see in the Samson Cree Reserve !

  43. Lightning Storm May 24th 2013

    The White Man’s priority is to CIVILIZE people who don’t live, act, or look like them! The religious do this with EVERY CONVERT…..NO MATTER WHAT COLOR THEIR SKIN IS.

    Jesus’ priority is to tell people about the ONE True God who is ALIVE AND POWERFUL, not dead and powerless like other gods.
    Powerful enough to forgive their sins, heal their wounded hearts, and TRANSFORM their sinful corrupt lives to the Life of Jesus, an OVERCOMER.

  44. Reach the redman, paleface, darkones, reach em all.
    THANKS for this article andrew.
    Be blessed and praise the LORD.
    PRAY to the LORD for the laborors to be sent out.
    TO stir up believers to reach the lost.
    AND keep praying. be blessed.

  45. Jda016 May 24th 2013

    My mother lost her husband, children, and grandchildren because she chose Christ and they did not. She was left abandoned and rejected and amazingly, she told me, “it is not what is done to you that is important, but how you react to it.”

    Despite the abuse done to her, she chose not to get angry and erect walls of bitterness or entitlement. She chose to love those who hated her and she still seeks the Lord with all her heart.

    This is not just for Native American Indians, but all people. If we let bitterness, pride, defensiveness, or yelling for “our rights,” then we are just going to circle the mountain and miss God.

    I don’t say this to make light of the Native American situation, but to point a way to healing.

  46. Averyl May 24th 2013

    Clare Watts, – Amen!
    Like everything else in life, we can’t make choices if we don’t know what the options are.

    And let us not forget how the African slaves accepted Christ as their only hope & strength while they were still in slavery.
    Even after they became free from their masters, it was only in the last 50 odd years that blacks have equal rights.

    There is still racism on all sides, but the daily racial abuse & negativity from white people is evidence of ignorance & supposed superiority.

  47. Averyl May 24th 2013

    Oh dear, – faithfully typed website data but not bringing up what I saw!
    Best for you to do the Google thing & go into those sites! SORRY!

  48. Averyl May 25th 2013

    Andrew, – please delete my last 2 posts wife websites that don’t take us where I was headed.

  49. Barry Schmidt May 25th 2013

    Someone mentioned that we need to preach the gospel to the First Nations lest the Muslims come in and make a deal they can’t refuse. What Book of the Bible did that motive come from???

    Preaching the gospel with the motive to fear that the Muslims might come in is NEVER biblical. Satan never drives out Satan. What are we supposed to be worried that the Notth American First Nations people’s will exchange the idol of alcoholism and grief for the idol of Allah?

    As if the King of the Universe is worried about a little competition from Allah!
    As if The Lord of the harvest – pitiful, weak and helpless and His arm to short to save that He is needs the Americans to come in and help him take a poeple for Himself from among the pagan First Nations people???

    It is this kind of humanistic arrogance and ignorance of Jesus Almighty sovereignty that causes the nations to say, “Your God is no bigger than out gods. Out god needs men to prop them up and SO DOES YOUR JESUS!”
    A voice says, “Call out.” Then he answered, “What shall I call out?” All flesh is grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field. The grass withers, the flower fades, When the breath of the Lord blows upon it; Surely the people are grass. The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. Get yourself up on a high mountain, O Zion, bearer of good news, Lift up your voice mightily, O Jerusalem, bearer of good news; Lift it up, do not fear. Say to the cities of Judah, “Here is your God!” Behold, the Lord G od will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him. Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes. Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, And marked off the heavens by the span, And calculated the dust of the earth by the measure, And weighed the mountains in a balance And the hills in a pair of scales? Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, Or as His counselor has informed Him? With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding? And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge And informed Him of the way of understanding? Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket, And are regarded as a speck of dust on the scales; Behold, He lifts up the islands like fine dust. (Isaiah 40:6-15 NASB)

    This is the God of the Bible!
    When are we going to dump our humanistic Jesus for the Soveriegn God that He is?

  50. Barry Schmidt May 25th 2013

    The answer is NOT to to nothing. The answer is to PRAY TO THE SOVERIEGN LORD OF THE HARVEST to send forth workers into HIS HARVEST FIELD.

    The reserves of NA are not the devil’s fields. THEY ARE HIS HARVEST FIELDS!
    The sovereign LORD knows their condition , knows their timing, knows what it will take to harvest them and IF WE PRAY will send forth effective harvesters.

    He doesn’t need any natural humanistic love for native Notth Americans in those he sends. He sent Jonah to Ninevah- a man who hated the NINEVITES and wished them to go to hell.
    May God send out a few modern day “Jonah’s ” into the reserves with this message, ” Three more days and the reserves will be destroyed.”
    And then sit back and see Gods Soveriegn mercy bring them all to repentance in ashes and sack cloth.

  51. fabakary May 25th 2013

    Thank you mary burn luis for this video it reminds of the parable “he that drinks the old wine thinks the old is better”
    Trust the material you send us will arrive soon. Have a blessed day and the lord keep you in his peace with the family.

    Barry wrote :”May God send out a few modern day “Jonah’s ” into the reserves with this message, ” Three more days and the reserves will be destroyed.”
    And then sit back and see Gods Soveriegn mercy bring them all to repentance in ashes and sack cloth.”
    Yes sometimes a message like that of jonah is the best. It reminds me just about two weeks ago , a girl I knew gave her life in repentance to christ. This girl meant business, she removed all her earrings, makeup, never wanted to wear jeans etc just to be consecrated. Those external consecration was her decision and i encourage her to keep them. It took somedays after which I asked her if she found it good she join a pentecostal “church” . She told me someone invited her in those days to one pertecostal church. But when she told me the name of the church an international church having a branch in my country, my heart was prick, because those people emphasis the gospel of accumulation , that is to get richer and richer , without much emphasis on sharing those blessing with the poor and needy. I did not hear any specific word or leading on how to speak to her. Then I explain her how in every major step I take in life God usually lead me. After which to my surprise she told me she will pray and God will direct her where to go for “church “. It was a phone chat so we concluded. Just about three days she called me and told me how things went when she visited the church. She must have knew something was not right . She told me “I WENT THERE LOOKING FOR MERCY AND THE PASTOR WAS TELLING ME ABOUT MAKING RICHES”. The girl had a good job before then .She said that night she prayed. Then in a vision the Lord revealed to her the abominations and how he being part of such a “church “ will destroy her. She was so happy to hear from the Lord and said since 3am she could not sleep because of Joy of the lord guidance.
    But also let not forget that Jonah type of guidance is not true death to self. In the new covenant the lord does not send us to those we hate but those we love, because we are called to love all men. Jonah was on an imperfect covenant, so imperfect in love. The new covenant work is first death , comes resurrection. Any work of God we do out of hate is not death, and God will see we first die before he send us. This is a covenant of love.

  52. fabakary May 25th 2013

    Oh I make a mistake out there, mary burn luis is one of my spiritual elder , who counsel me like Joan w was. She does not participate no this forum. I was replying to a short video she sent me , plus spiritual materials from her hand,that she send us . I copy it that reply by mistake while replying to Barry.

  53. The harvest is ripe………………but the laboureres be few
    PRAY ye therefore the LORD to send out laboureres
    Be blessed all people of the lamb.
    AND may all PRAISE the LORD
    for HIS merices upon us all daily.
    Be blessed.

  54. Marilyn Crow May 25th 2013

    I`ve been mulling over whether to post my comment & whether it would be suitable but when I saw Barry Schmidt`s comment my spirit fired up.

    `the King of the Universe…`
    `the Lord of the Harvest…`
    `Jesus` Almighty Sovereignty…`

    Thank you Barry for focussing us on the Lord. How great He is & yet how often we measure His work by `bottoms on seats,` or by what we can see in events.

    The pain & conflicts of countries, race, religions, class, sexes, will continue because of sin till everything is put under Christ`s feet. But amid the rubble of this life Christ the head, our Master, the Great Redeemer, He has sent, is sending & will send labourers into the harvests.

    His method is not always appreciated as we don`t want to see the conflicts, but want to see organisations & events so we can feel & say `at last someone is doing something.` As if Christ has not already been working in that harvest field.

    So here is the challenge. Which would you like to see – an event that looks like it saves people, or one spirit filled person discipling.
    Let`s give the events `one million,` people against the one person discipling. Looks like a `David & Goliath,` challenge. let`s see the results.

    METHOD A – Events.

    One million people for each event over say 30 events = 30 million people. Wonderful. But as Tozer said in the `Comments & quotes this week, are we really `winning them?`

    METHOD B – Discipling.

    One person submitted to Christ with a desire & knowledge of discipleship. That person, over time with prayers, tears, time, energy disciples another, then together they over time, disciple another each. Do that 30 times & you have the amazing total of over 500 million persons, & one more discipling each brings the grand total to over one billion souls.

    A. Events – One million start – 30 times = 30 million. .
    B. Discipling – One person start – 30 times = over 500 million.

    Events can help but discipling is the key & that process is not on the news or the organisation`s bulletin board but is quietly going on in all the conflict places of the world. Jesus, by His grace is saving souls, working through ordinary people who are obedient to Christ, & by His Holy Spirit lives are changed.

    For it is `not by might nor by power,` of men, but by `My Spirit,` says the Lord & through a yielded to God person. In the `comments & quotes,` this week Tozer mentioned `true discipleship,` one that `dies to self….` & then makes disciples & helps them to make disciples.

    I encourage all of us to keep relating to those around, keep encouraging, keep praying, keep trusting the Lord of the harvest that what He is doing through you is His method of reaching the lost – one on one. No matter that no one sees because He does.

    In His time, Marilyn.

  55. In response to the great contributions by people who advocate interceding for all these first nation peoples (and all peoples really)
    this short youtube clip by the late David Wilkerson (of Cross and Switchblade fame) and late pastor of New York City Church describes how we should do it – it is a heart wrending appeal from a true man of God. If the connection does not come straight off
    here just google in details. It is only a brief clip from one of his sermons, but very compelling…………..

    A Call to Anguish – David Wilkerson – YouTube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGMG_PVaJoI

  56. Barry, Crossjordon7, Claudia, and all,

    When I first saw all the comments I thought this article is bringing out a lot of “raw emotions and hurt feelings” concerning something that happened over a hundred or more years ago.

    Barry what you shared was very well spoken along with some of the others. Enjoyed the comments.

    Lord Bless
    GaryB

  57. Marilyn Crow May 26th 2013

    Thank you AM for that connection to David Wilkerson`s message. What a heart cry. We have yet to be broken, but it is coming.

    Oh my God…..Marilyn.

  58. Lightning Storm May 26th 2013

    Excellent post about the 2 Methods, Marilyn Crow.

    Amen.

  59. Marilyn Crow May 26th 2013

    Thank you Lightning Storm.

    Jackie Pullinger`s story in `Chasing the Dragon,` tells of how the Lord lead her to the Walled City in Hong Kong in the `70`s. She walked the streets praying in tongues, & over a period of time discipled one then another, & helped them to help others. Now over a few decades later the Lord through the `one on one` discipling has reached thousands upon thousands.

    I was privileged to meet her while I was in Christchurch, New Zealand, in `83. She was also visiting New Zealand. What the Lord did through her has given me the inspiration to work quietly with others.

    In His service. Marilyn.

  60. I wrote a book about my life story of abuse by my mother and family members titled “Mama Please Love Me(just give me a hug) a Native American in North Dakota got our book which is online He wanted me and my husband to come and speak to the Native Americans there we went and God blessed the revival tremendously. So many Native Americans came from miles away to hear my testimony of abuse to triumph by the grace of God. So many Native Americans had read my book they could identify with a lot of things that I encountered while growing up in an alcoholic home and living among rats and other filthy conditions. One of the Native American ministers spoke to me and my husband and said that God lead him to be a part of the ministry we are doing for Christ he paid the publishing company for our books to be officially made and distributed worldwide. The testimonies are still coming back to us we are asked to return back to the reservation. Glory to God I am also thankful to God for the Holy Spirit to use us to speak out against prejudice and racism even among the Native Americans against the white race and to receive deliverance from the pain of what our American Government did to them etc. Saints time is short today is not promised to no one we must work for Jesus everyday that we can to minister to the lost and hurting souls that He brings across our path we must search our hearts if there is any racism or prejudice in your hearts REPENT QUICKLY! if you want Heaven to be your Eternal Home because in Heaven there are no RACISM THERE OR SEGREGATION! We are willing to minister anywhere that we are asked to come or speak for Jesus and to minister to souls the harvest is plentiful but few laborers we must work while we have our breath.

  61. AND TO THE LAST BREATH……………….ALL GLORY TO GOD!!!!

  62. Averyl May 26th 2013

    Wow, – overcoming by the word of our testimony and the blood of the Lamb!

    Praise your mighty Name, Lord, who was and is and is to come!

  63. Praise the LORD
    and may all be blessed.
    LET us PRAY unto the LORD for labourers
    to be sent out,
    for lambs to be encouraged in the Lord.
    For lambs to find true fellowship in the LORD.
    And may many thanksgivings be unto the LORD.

  64. Not a lot more we can say re this post as it has been very well said by most contributors.

    But Randall Lowery -Amen to that re the labourers. In fact I was seeking God on ‘the going out into the marketplace’ and I was led to look at the Apostles as to how they did it – they spent time and waited on the Lord for their ministry, they waited until they had received both the anointing and power from on high, in which to go out and do the work God called them -which was to preach the Gospel, heal the sick, deliver from demons and so on. The waiting part on God enabled them to receive His power so hence signs and miracles followed, as with Jesus, who spent much time with His father.

    From my observation with church groups, they get ‘organised’ to go out, they get the prison team ready, the old people’s home team ready, do the foodie thing at the church for community folk, get the music team ready to sing, or whatever -I have not observed any real waiting on God for the power on high to come.

    This social Gospel is needful (though often the secular world do it better and are even more compassionate) but God calls us to go out in POWER so that the effect is similar to that of the Apostles. Jesus said greater things would His people do after he went home to His Father. We can only do these much greater things if we do spend a good amount of time waiting on God, waiting until we do get the HS unction, the power and anointing.

    I have tested this by spending 3-4 hrs per day and more at night, with God, waiting on him, then going out – definitely there was a difference and power from on high was evident. Miracles for people did happen.

    Churches can have good intentions for good works, they do projects, programs, organise this, organise that, but unless the unction is given from on high, unless they all wait upon the God for the power/anointing to go forth, we do alot in our own strength. If we wait on God, we will be so much more effective and see so much more deliverance of people from serious and dysfunctional situations. And in a fraction of the time, a fraction of material resources, plus the people are quickly liberated to seek God for themselves along their own faith journeys.

    I went round to observe many churches in my city -the time spent in corporate prayer was pretty non existant. People’s secular employment was far more prominent than spending time with God.
    A quote from Andrew’s web -No prayer, no power.

    David Wilkerson’s clip on youtube Call to Anguish (above contribution) demonstrates this point too.

    The western church needs to lay down their idols, the idols that are no different to the Golden Calf of the Israeli people in the desert with Moses. Persecution and dark times are coming, they are coming to the western church, they are coming to the western world, the signs are there -how will a non praying, a non waiting and spiritually powerless western church cope? -many will sink, notwithstanding all the unsaved souls who are not being rescued.

    Let us all lay aside the things that hinder and distract us, and come and wait upon the Lord -not for 5 minutes, not for a brief time before a Sunday service, a 10 minute wonder in a house group, or driving on the motorway, but serious waiting for the unction and power from on high.

    God bless…………..

  65. From one of your previous comments AM you live in New Zealand yes?

    I would be interested to “catch up” with you, if you’d be interested in catching up with me… 🙂

    If you click on my name it will re-direct you to my blog-site…

    If you click on “About” you’ll find my email address…

    I’ll leave it with you… 🙂

  66. Lightning Storm May 28th 2013

    AMEN AMEN AMEN to the post made by AM!

    Idols of the heart brought the Israelites into the Judgment of CAPTIVITY/BONDAGE every time.

    Don’t even hear preaching about IDOLATRY anymore.
    We wouldn’t want to OFFEND the congregations.

  67. We Europeans that invaded this land have within the last 200 yrs. have literally destroyed the land, water, and air…….we obviously had no respect-connection to the earth…..Native Americans were living a more Christ-like way back then than the white man has since he set foot on this continuant! You want to start the healing of the Nations then start with ground O…..earn their respect or they will never listen to you……This Land Is Their Land Of Inheritance from the Creator! They “the sleeping giant is awakening and becoming “IDLE NO MORE”…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zE92JEg4JEU

  68. Claudia May 28th 2013

    This earth, this land, no matter where located does not belong to any man. Lands have changed hands from the beginning of time as men sought power and glory for themselves….everywhere…both in the East, the West, the North, and the South.

    This earth belongs to God alone, and He allows man to live here for a time.

    This age of “man” is soon to be over, and those who have continued to deceive from before Adam, and at Adam’s fall are returning soon for the second to last Great Deception to cause worship to be focused on them and away from the True God who was and is and will be…the only God..the I AM. The God of TRUTH, not lies. The God of LIFE, not death.

    Those who the native americans and other ancient races/cultures wait for, may well not be the God of Truth….the only God who started all things and who gave His Son to be our Lamb, and save us from forever death if we choose to repent from man’s ways and return to God’s Way.

    None of their gods who appeared on earth from time to time were willing to die for them (the Cross), but required them to die for him (human sacrifices/blood letting).

    The Holy Spirit can be found in all of God’s creation, and for those who have the heart to receive the Spirit, they honor God’s creations. But salvation (the elimination of man’s will/sin) does not stop there…is not complete at that moment….the Holy Spirit will always eventually lead away from man’s glory and point to God’s Glory, His Son, our Creator, Yeshua, Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit that some indians worship will lead them to Messiah, if they are not deceived by the first one that comes soon….and if they have a heart to love not hate; forgive, not seek revenge; wait patiently, not act in haste driven by hatred; and honor the truth, not lies; and seek to renew life, not commit murder.

    The true Holy Spirit is not aroused by smoking a drug, or beating on drums to reach the point of break through. That is satan’s way to receive man’s worship….to steal the worship due God.

    The American indians were not the first to occupy the Americas. They have many tales of the giants who lived here before them. These “giants” were not of the Adamic line. Many of the giant skeletons have been found, but for whatever reason our government acts to destroy or hide them. Are these the same giants that came about from the fallen angels in the times of Noah and Enoch? Who knows. Will they return? Who knows. My point is this land does not belong to the native indians….there were others here before them. It did not belong to the giants either….as they were trespassing on God’s earth. ALL THINGS BELONG TO GOD.

  69. May all lambs Praise the LORD.
    And wait upon the Lord. Being zealously affected
    in doing good unto others as we are unctioned By His spirit
    to do good unto all, and preach the gosple and love the TRUTH
    Dig deep lambs. Dig ever deep for the fountains of living waters
    with the shovel of faith.
    Be blessed of the LORD and PRAISE HIS NAME.

  70. Lightning Storm May 28th 2013

    It’s true that this Earth does not belong to man.

    God OWNS ALL CREATION, BUT the kingdom of darkness (Satan and his followers) HAS POSSESSION of all creation.

    Creation was stolen/kidnapped in the Garden of Eden.

    Just as if I own a car and someone steals it and uses it for their own purposes.
    I still OWN the car, but I do not have POSSESSION.

    Over the centuries, mankind has WRONGLY INTERPRETED the scriptures to mean TAKING BACK POSSESSION for the Kingdom of God by PHYSICAL FORCE AND POWERS OF MANIPULATION.
    In an earlier post I mentioned the “christian” way of taking possession for the Kingdom of God was to CIVILIZE the people to look like, act like, and think like them. A form of witchcraft manipulation.

    But Jesus SHOWED us HIS WAY of taking POSSESSION of what has been stolen.
    The Apostles followed HIS WAY…..and in a short amount of time, made great in-roads.

    Over the centuries, a REMNANT of people have followed HIS WAY of taking POSSESSION of creation, and REVIVALS have manifested…..whole towns (and now cities in some countries) have been RESTORED to the possession of God…the RIGHTFUL OWNER of all creation and every man, woman, and child.

  71. watchful May 28th 2013

    Myself I would not want to get into any debate as to which race is the most virtuous, because we ALL fall short of the glory, if not in one way, then in others. But God loves all mankind and sent His son to die for all mankind who would receive Him……..and that in spite of all our shortcomings which are worse than we might think from a limited human point of view.

    No, there is no segregation nor reservations in Christ, where there is neither Jew nor Greek nor white nor red nor black……once we reckon ourselves not according to the flesh any longer. I used to wonder why in the churches there seemed to be so more emphasis on foreign missions when there were so many lost in our own backyard…..I still don’t know the answer to that, or if my perception of that was even right. Of course we should not neglect either.

    Amen AM to your words…like dew drops and instruction from heaven to my soul.

  72. watchful May 28th 2013

    Lightning Storm, I agree with what you are saying here, up to a point. After that I am just not sure, because I’m wondering whether it is that we are supposed to take back possession of the earth, or if God will wrap things up another way….because of where it says the way to life is narrow and only a few will find it…….what I mean is, will that not always be true? I just wonder if there is more to it, that God is interested, for one thing, in glorifying Himself rather than taking back the earth per se, because He has the power to take back the earth anytime He wants to, without our help. Not meaning to argue, because I just don’t have a full picture of how things will go yet, but just discussing, and wondering what your thoughts are about that.

  73. Marilyn Crow May 28th 2013

    My thoughts Lightning Storm & Watchful on this topic that has developed – `Who owns the earth?`

    We know that God owns the earth & its people –

    `The earth is the Lord`s & all it contains, the world, & those who dwell there.` (Ps. 24:1)

    However we know that Satan usurped control / rule over man, Adam & therefore his descendants. Christ became a man to claim back dominion of the earth. Man had forfeited his right to dominion when he disobeyed God & let satan rule over him. However Christ the last Adam never gave away His right to dominion of the earth. That is why the Father has given it to the Son.

    `God….has appointed (His Son) heir of all things.` (Heb. 1:2)
    `Ask of Me, & I will give You the nations for Your inheritance, & the ends of the earth for Your possession.` (Ps. 2: 8)

    Christ could fix it all up now & come & take possession as it is rightfully His. But God has greater purposes through Christ & that is to restore all authority under Christ. The timing of this will start when He returns to take the mature Body of Christ to its eternal home in Glory.

    Then we will see the beginning of the restoration of all authority – a step at a time, outworked.

    `Christ….whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things (under Christ`s authority) about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.` (Acts 3: 21)

    `For He (Christ) must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 25)

    And note, each group – The Body of Christ, Israel, the Nations, all have a place in God`s great plan & purposes through Christ.

    A great topic & worthy of discussion.

    Marilyn.

  74. Watchful wrote: I used to wonder why in the churches there seemed to be so more emphasis on foreign missions when there were so many lost in our own backyard…..I still don’t know the answer to that, or if my perception of that was even right.
    quote……………

    Watchful,
    From my own personal observations, I think that people in third world countries are more receptive to the gospel.

    I have worked a number of times in street evangelism in this country and you generally draw an angry mob. 🙂 I could share more but a group of sinners are bolder to “heckle” who ever is preaching.

    I do think Marilyn is right in the fact that one on one witnessing (at least in this country) seems to be more effective at this time. People will open up more about their lives when you share with them.

    GaryB

  75. Marilyn Crow May 29th 2013

    The setting of the Body of Christ in the third heaven as KingPriests on thrones, marks the first realm to be restored under Christ`s rule. This is the thrones & dominions realm.

    The other two realms, the Universe (Principalities & Powers realm) & the earth will then be the next realms to come under the Lordship of Christ. This we see outworked in the book of Revelation.

    The Body of Christ in the third heaven on thrones are the first group to receive their inheritance through Christ. This realm was previously ruled by Satan until unrighteousness was found in him. He was the anointed one but he said, `I will ascend…`& now he is being `cut down.` (Is. 14 & Ez. 28) His position of authority is then taken by the Body of Christ under Christ`s rule.

    The prophet Daniel was given a vivid picture of this new authority set up. He saw God`s throne of judgment with other thrones set up.

    `I kept looking until thrones were set up….` (Dan. 7: 9)

    Daniel was not told who these were but we, the Body of Christ have been told that if we are overcomers that we will sit with Christ on His throne in Glory.

    `(Christ) has made us kings & priests to His God…` (Rev. 1: 4)
    `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

    Our first responsibility is as the heavenly court who will prounce judgment upon the world`s system & the demonic angels.

    `Do you not know that the saints will judge the world (system).`
    `Do you not know that we shall judge angels?` (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

    It makes us stand in awe of God & His wondrous plans through Christ that man could ever understand that He desires us to be with Him in that close intimacy in the third heaven.

    This revelation opens our eyes to appreciate more & more that Christ is making us like unto Himself so we can rule & reign with Him. And even now as we learn to rule over our own spirit, we enter into Kingship. Then when we mentor, pray & intercede for others we are learning our Priestly role unto God.
    (Prov. 16: 32 2 Cor. 5: 18 & 19)

    Unto Him be all the glory……

    Marilyn.

  76. watchful May 29th 2013

    oh GaryB, I’m sure there are exceptions, but for my part I have seen with my own eyes that what often happens is that religious institutions choose for themselves how they want to “please the Lord” doing their usual traditional things, but being blind to HIS will right in front of their faces…..very sad. There ARE opportunities in North America to spread the gospel, I know it, I have seen it. But we have to come out from under the bushel to do it. And some must be willing to do the hard and inglorious work of ploughing and preparing the field. I think that is a forgotten concept nowadays.

  77. Marilyn Crow May 29th 2013

    Yes Watchful,

    I believe the `ploughing & preparing the field,` has alot to do with `people don`t want to know how much you know until they see how much you care.` & that takes time, energy, prayer, money, etc,etc, by God`s Holy Spirit directing, guiding & encouraging us in the field of those few lives He has entrusted us with.

    Hand to the plough, the joy of walking with Him.

    Marilyn.

  78. watchful May 29th 2013

    Thanks Marilyn, those are very helpful scriptures to think upon….and your second post on this seems like very deep study, and some of it is new to me.

    I just have so many thoughts on this topic, and many of them are contradicting, lol, so I need to let the Lord settle it all down and show me His truth and what it all means. I have a feeling it likely won’t happen today or tomorrow, I’ve been trying to make sense of it all for a long time and still feel like I’m blindly groping around when it comes to the end of this age.

  79. Watchful you just remember what JESUS said.
    THE MEEK will ONE DAY inherit the earth.
    after the COMING of our LORD and savoir.
    FOR NOW……………….as paul said
    FOR HERE we have NO CONTINUAL CITY
    BUT WE SEEK ONE TO COME.
    AT the end…………..the wheat shall be sifted from the tares
    AT THE END of this age.
    TO all be blessed in the LORD.
    DIG……………….DIG …………..HUNGRILY for the TRUTH
    FOR FIND HIM YE SHALL…………….
    WHEN YE SEEK WITH THE WHOLE HEART.

  80. VERY GOOD WATCHFUL…….
    THERE IS NEITHER RED MAN< BLACK MAN
    brown or white man………
    JEW nor GREEK.
    THE FAMILY OF GOD……………..does not LOOK UPON THE OUTSIDE of a man
    BUT RATHER the SPIRIT on the inside.
    TRULY i say……………the flesh profits nothing
    YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN.
    man , woman, color………nor country……is not
    family. ONLY THOSE WHO are born of the spirit and water,
    ONLY THOSE in CHRIST………………are FAMILY.
    IN WHOM we are made the righteousness of GOD.
    A GIFT…………………………my brothers and sisters……….
    a GIFT. LET no man boast in his race, in his country
    in hisself, let no man glory in his riches, nor boast in
    foolish wisdom of this world.
    LET HE WHO GLORIIES, GLORY in the LORD.
    IN HIS MERCIES………….TELL THE WORLD
    OF HIS COMPASSIONS tell the lost.
    KNOWING the terror of the LORD………….let each
    persuade man. TIME IS INDEED drawing ever to the end of this age…………..and a short work will soon be made upon the earth.
    I love you all. I pray for us all. and i say TO GOD BE ALL GLORY. amen.

  81. fabakary May 29th 2013

    There is so much wickedness that our Christless fore fathers had done. There was a time a man of my own tribe told me a story that even made me by then to have some kind of hatred for my own tribe because of what I heard about the sins of my forefathers. I wasn’t in Christ then though. The man told me how our forefathers when they go to steal men properties , they will wait until all the elders go to the bush , then as they will cut all the children tongues and steal the property so that the children will not be able to talk and report. Well I only heard it from that man. There is now written history of it . I am not sure if it is true or false; but assuming the story was true and I knew the family of those victims today , it will be christ like for me to stand in the place of my forefathers and ask for forgiveness , not because I am guilty but because I am in a better position, to bring forth healing and a good mindset among the victims by such actsh. As Christian even after we have received forgiveness from God, we are to ask forgiveness from those that have an aught against us, just to heal their wounded spirits. The Christian life is not just a matter of saying “this and that has nothing to do with salvation” but a matter of giving Love not just heavenly rewards. There is a wrong mindset that says “as far as this and that cannot stop me making heaven or losing my salvation , I do not care how my neighbor feels”. That is selfishness. What reward do God have for giving us Love or forgiving us ? Not one. As Sons of God , we function like God, because Gods works in us, not because this or that act will give us heavenly reward. When God gives Love or forgiveness it does not reward him but it reward others. So as Sons of God the Love may be a path to bring a heavenly reward to others. It is not all about ourselves. We should not defend the sins of our fore fathers, no make them appear as light . All our christless forefathers where all wicked though with diffrenet degrees , but many are there who honestly hate Christianity because what some of our forefathers did in the name of Christianity. As Christian we can in the place of our forefather and ask for forgiveness , give love to those victims that veil that hinders them from accepting Christ may be torn away. Some speak of feet washing among the native Indians , that are good works, and selfless works. It is not all about making heaven or keeping our salvation.

  82. watchful May 29th 2013

    Marilyn, I tried to post this last night but lost internet connection:

    My last post just crossed with yours Marilyn….. what you are saying i think applies very well to discipling especially. For other types of work, evangelizing, the beginning stages of an evangelizing effort, what I found is that the enemy doesn’t stand idle when we try to take territory that he is occupying….he attacks and we have to overcome the attacks and discouragements etc, and rout the enemy, through prayer, intercession, and just by keeping going and our hand to the plough in face of the attacks, thus we are ploughing and removing stumps and stones from the field…. 🙂 It is heavy going for a time, until one day you find the attacks just have left off or eased and the going gets easier and the way is opened for planting….. I’m not an expert, my experience is limited, but that is what I have learned from it. There are both ploughmen and reapers in God’s scheme of things, though sometimes I think it can be the same people doing both.

  83. watchful May 29th 2013

    Bless you Randall, wise words of truth, amen…..it is enough to know that here we have no continuing city, but are looking for the one to come, and sometimes when I get confused over a thing, I am content to leave it in God’s hands trusting and asking that He will sift and reveal if and when it is needful.

    fabakery, I hear what you are saying and amen to it. So important that we do what we do out of love and not because of wanting to gain by it. When it comes to our first nations people here much gentleness and humility in the Holy Ghost is needed, it is like coming across a lovely deer in the woods which will so easily shy away and run from our white man’s more blustery ways.

  84. fabakary May 29th 2013

    That our called indeed watchful, to do all things our of Love and Love alone, without price tags.He gives us all freely. Stay bless.

  85. Lightning Storm May 29th 2013

    Excellent word, fabakary!

    What you are speaking of is VITAL for breaking bondages; generational sins and curses; and healing the wounds of the hearts.

    Jesus came to set the captives free and heal the brokenhearted……..this is the ministry of RECONCILIATION THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN.

  86. fabakary May 29th 2013

    Amen lighteningStorm that is indeed His will, His purpose for His coming. Praise be to his name.