IT’S TIME to REBOOT CHRISTIAN TELEVISION

-extracts by J. Lee Grady

Lee Grady believes the time for preaching styles like TBN’s Paul Crouch has passed.

As Christian friends and colleagues mourn Crouch’s passing
(there will be no public funeral, but TBN plans to air a tribute on
Dec. 8 and 9), the wider Christian public is asking a lot of questions
about TBN—and about Christian broadcasting in general: Why is
televangelism so prone to scandal? Why have so many Christian
broadcasters insisted on living lavishly? Why is our most visible
outreach to the world so embarrassing?

If I were asked to suggest ways to improve Christian television in
this new era, I would list the following:

1. Support it with advertising, not donations. Who said Christian
programming has to be donor-funded? I’d rather watch ads for
steak knives or dietary supplements than endure two hours of
begging—especially when the slick-haired evangelist running the
telethon reminds you of a used-car salesman.

2. Prosperity preaching shouldn’t be allowed. Networks need to
declare a moratorium on sermons that promise magical monetary
benefits to people who “call now” to give a credit card donation.
This type of merchandising of the anointing of the Holy Spirit
grieves God and drags Christian TV down to the level of scam
artists.

3. Preachers—and their doctrines—should be more carefully
screened. Christian networks should not air programs by ministers
who have questionable morals. If we wouldn’t allow that person in
our church’s pulpit, why would we let them preach in front of
millions on the air?

4. Donors should never be manipulated. If there is an appeal for
donations, there should be no hanky-panky allowed. Don’t tell
people that if they give tonight, God will give them a house. Don’t
promise that God will heal their bodies if they sow a “$1,000 seed.”
And don’t tell viewers that if they give in this special “Day of
Atonement offering,” God will forgive their sins. This is witchcraft!
Shame on any broadcaster who has allowed this garbage to
deceive audiences.

5. Money should never be misused. TBN makes millions in
donations every year—and the network has donated some of the
funds to charitable causes. But why is it that broadcasters like
Paul and Jan Crouch had to purchase lavish homes, a private jet
and an enormous trailer for their dogs? Donors should demand
more accountability for financial contributions.

6. It should be relevant to today’s culture. Young Christians today
care about justice, world poverty and community transformation.
They also want teaching on relationships, sexuality and practical
discipleship. Christian TV must move beyond the talking-head
style of the 1980s. If we want to appeal to young viewers, the
false eyelashes, pink fright wigs and “Granny hootenanny” music
will have to go.

7. Network owners should not set up broadcasting kingdoms.
Some leaders in the past generation believed that ministries are
like dynasties—that God expects the founder’s son to run it when
he dies. But there is nothing in Scripture that even hints at
ministries being passed down through family lines. God entrusts
His work to faithful people—and He expects us to manage
ministries with integrity, humility and accountability. Many of the
disasters we have seen in American televangelism occurred
because men thought they could take ownership of the work of God.

My prayer for TBN—and every other Christian television network
in this country—is that ministry leaders will take their hands off
of God’s work and let Him use broadcast technology in new and
creative ways to reach the world for Christ.

-READ THE FULL ARTICLE-

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/fire-in-my-bones/19293

Posted in Uncategorized by Andrew on December 11th, 2013 at 11:30 am.

89 comments

89 Replies

  1. Carolyn Dec 11th 2013

    I have felt so often that so many of these tv programs (no not all) are nothing short of selling the gospel.. isn’t it suppose to be sent out FREE.. not pay to have it, or hear it or watch it, there are minstries that in order to read their prohpecy you have to be a paying member.. what an abomination to God this has to be.. if your going to go on TV GIVE THE MESSAGE FREE including prophecies that may come.
    I for one would love to see most Christian TV programs reboot.. I love the Lord with all my heart and seek Him daily, but I do not seek Him though TV, but in the Word, where I know the Holy Spirit will give me truth and lead me in all directions.. I don’t feel like I am being scam in the Word.. yes a change is needed.. or so I think.

  2. J. Lee Grady…..you have made a great point, but in my opinion you are a sheep, standing before a pack of wolves, telling them what they should be doing.They are not listening to you. They will not listen to us. They have no intention of changing their ways.
    It ain’t gonna happen.
    There is to much money to be made to change things now. Air time is sold to those who will pay the price. Neither the networks nor the prosperity preachers care about these 7 points, they care about the money to be made.

  3. I really doubt that most Christian TV has much if anything to do with preaching the gospel and making disciples. Money, money money and extravagance are the rule. How can anyone believe that God told these folks (families) to hoard 100’s of millions and some billions for themselves. Some could feed entire countries, and some even look like the devil (Mike M.). Stay away from them.

  4. sharon Dec 11th 2013

    At long LAST! Agree with every single word you have said. Our Lord calls us to follow Him. To be Holy as He is Holy. God bless the Crouch family with His love and comfort at this sad time. I pray that God turns all of their mistakes to the Good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Praise God He IS The Truth and millions have been reached and saved through the programms but I do pray that they will preach the Truth without compromise

  5. If prosperity preachers truly believe that givers will get back ‘one-hundred fold’, then why don’t they start giving their money away, instead of taking other people’s money?

    [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28868437/Forum%20Images/PULPIT.pig.gif[/img]

  6. The majority of the TV preachers treat their shows like a business, not a ministry. Regardless of what they say, their lifestyles speak volumes more about what they really believe and who they really follow. To not understand and live as though we are new covenant stewards – meaning our money is not our own, but God’s – and we need to use it as He dictates, not waste it on temporal material wealth. That alone, that they don’t understand what laying up treasure in heaven means, then they are broadcasting a fake/false gospel. To be a disciple of One who had no place to even lay His head, then build empires of materialism with donated money, gives the truth to the lie of their lives. The hypocrisy of most TV evangelists has done great harm to the cause of Christ. I pray the conversions that come through their ‘ministries’ are, in fact, true conversions. I do believe the God sees the heart of the hearer and responds to those seeking truth, regardless of who or how the truth is presented. What is so unfortunate is how the enemy will use the lavish lifestyles to cause doubt in a new convert’s heart.

  7. stephen boyce Dec 11th 2013

    in Australia we don’t get much pay TV because it is too expensive. I think it is like $150 a month. looks like I am not missing out in much. We have enough apostate preachers on normal TV

  8. 4. Donors should never be manipulated. If there is an appeal for
    donations, there should be no hanky-panky allowed. Don’t tell
    people that if they give tonight, God will give them a house. Don’t
    promise that God will heal their bodies if they sow a “$1,000 seed.”
    And don’t tell viewers that if they give in this special “Day of
    Atonement offering,” God will forgive their sins. This is witchcraft!
    Shame on any broadcaster who has allowed this garbage to
    deceive audiences.

    Sounds to me like the Indulgences of the 16th century that brought about the reformation.

    Even so, the Roman Catholic Church of the 16th century did not go away just because a group of dedicated believers protested against them.

    These folk will also not go away. We may protest against them but we will ultimately have to separate ourselves from them and begin our own true worship of God.

  9. Christian TV is just another organisation like the regular church, para church, book stores or Christian radio network but in a different media. It is subject to the same forms of corruption, manipulation, wrong doctrines and temple money changers as in regular churches. The audience is much globally wider, perhaps more gullible and does not know much about the home back grounds of some of these ministries. There are some genuine broadcasts, where real Biblical teaching may occur but very few. The TBN network is well known for its blatant deception and endless scandals, so a real vehicle for satan. The Christian landscape is now filled with so much deception and growing apostasy, that the only safe means of learning more about God is JUST the Bible. That;s if you get the right publication as well! They say Smith Wigglesworth only ever read one book -the Bible and his ministry made a strong impact on the western church. No TV, no radio, no books -just the Bible. We do not need to be a ‘god chaser’ but to only sit at the feet of Jesus and read His Word. All else will flow from that -even ministry to the poor, needy and so on. The Apostles did not have the technological media coverage or the intense marketing for money to support their cause, yet they impacted their world far more than we see anyone impact our world today. They followed the Apostles Creed received first hand and obeyed His command to go out. Many Christian leaders run their Christianity like the world -as businesses and even worse. Yes we truly are in the end times.
    Cone Lord Jesus Come………………soon!

  10. In fact, it is not just on television. The same mindset is also in many, if not most, of the churches of today. And I say this, it is not just in the mega churches, it is prevalent even in the small congregations also.

  11. I believe it is time for new churches to begin to be established and preach the whole truth as the Bible gives it.

    Leave the establishment behind, just as the reformers did and begin anew with those who will follow the truth.

  12. By saying “new churches” of course I mean new groups\congregations gathering to preach/hear the true word of God.

  13. Larry Lind Dec 11th 2013

    I stopped watching these frauds many years ago .What became of the money changers in the temple? And yet, Jesus chose Matthew the tax collector. That man is so desperate that he can be so easily fooled is sad. The same goes for greed .Is it not good to know that God always saves back a remnant unto Himself? Everything man touches is used for good and for evil because that is the path he chose so long ago. The life of Jesus shows us how to escape this ancient trap of both good and evil which are both of the same fruit.The deceivers themselves are deceived by the love of riches and it is hard to enter into the kingdom for a rich man because his god is a false god and self centeredness is not the key to the kingdom Jesus taught and lived out.
    Larry

  14. When the majority of believers tune out and stop sending money, as many already have, the type of programming you oppose will go away. And it may not even be replaced. Forms of communication have changed since the 70’s. Today, with the internet and social media, it is common for believers to interact with other believers from around the world as we are doing right now. We are, after all, a kingdom of priests. And we have a high priest in heaven. And we have the Holy Spirit within. We can all edify each other. There has never been a greater opportunity for all believers to participate in building up the body of Christ.

  15. Previous commenters have hinted at what I think are the roots of the problems with much so-called “Christian” TV.

    At the roots of this issue is the fact that man is trying to do God’s work by using man’s methods and systems – often for personal advancement (or job security).

    The New Testament demonstrates (as does numerous recent studies) that most people come to Christ by the ministry and/or invitation of someone the person knows – i.e. by personal interaction between individuals.

    Making disciples also works best in personal settings. “Making disciples” as found in the NT is more like mentoring or apprenticeship as found in the trades. One is discipled by one whom the disciple can observe in all areas of life (read the requirements for an elder, bishop, or deacon in Acts 6, 1 Timothy 3, and Titus 2). On the contrary, TV, by nature, lends itself to “putting on an act” and not being authentic.

    The world of TV also lends itself to philosophy of building one’s own kingdom which much of western Christianity has embraced.

    When will we learn that God’s work MUST be done God’s way? Are we too ignorant, too lazy, or too non-committal to do God’s work God’s way? Why would we rather pay someone to do what God’s called every Christian to do (and to do it so poorly at that)?

    For much of my ministry, I have worked in small churches which did not generate sufficient offerings to support a minister full time. This has required me to be a “tent-maker” pastor finding other work to support myself and my family while I pastored a congregation. How often I shook my head in dismay as I saw the waste and misuse of money in “Christian” TV, all the while wondering how many missionaries and Christian workers that money would have supported. I wept when I saw big churches (in the denomination I belonged to at the time) waste money on lavish entranceways or some other equally non-essential item to make themselves more appealing to the world and the flesh, knowing that the money wasted on those things would support multiple missionary-pastors for numerous years. How much more for the colossal waste by TV empires?

    I suspect God may be destroying the gods His people have made of Christian TV.

    I am not saying that any use of TV is not valid in the ministry of God’s Gospel and Kingdom. What I am saying is that most of its use has actually been a misuse and abuse of the resources God has put into the hands of His people.

    May God help us to be faithful disciples of Christ and faithful stewards of what He puts into our hands.

  16. I agree with this article…except, what is a granny hootenanny? Doe Lee mean Southern Gospel? I love Southern Gospel. It’s a genre of the common people.

  17. L. Alex Smith Dec 11th 2013

    Good riddance. Is television even a viable format for the preaching of the Gospel? I thought that the LIFE that Jesus gave to us, was a one-to-one infusion of his Spirit to renew our hearts in God. Perhaps God is knocking down the walls we have erected of self protection, complacency, and “privacy”… to bring the Gospel back to a personal, one to one interaction. Hands-on prayer for Forgiveness, healing, and deliverance– that can’t work using television. Many would say, “But people have been saved by watching these programs!” True, but… God knows the level to which they have had true repentance, and true reformation of character and heart… How were you born into the Kingdom of God– were you born into a plastic studio set…? God knows the truth here. But I tend to think that although He can “use” the format– he uses what we give him to use, why should we “re-package” HIS words of Life into a plastic, two-dimensional image, and then give that back to Him “to use”… why not have REAL HUMAN CONTACT– this may be what needs to happen.
    All I can say is that in the Apocalypse, there are Judgements of God that shall happen on this earth, cataclysmic events… “signs in the heavens and in the earth”. One good Solar Prominence can seriously screw up our Electronica that we have so carefully built. Then, it’s back to 19th century technology– and the old ways of Actually Talking To People, face to face. Bring it all down ! So that we can put the “Christ” back into Christianity ! Real people, a real Lord…. not a fake studio construct.

  18. L. Alex Smith Dec 11th 2013

    An excellent book on the subject, “Amusing Ourselves To Death” by Neil Postman, former Director of Education (or, Secretary of Education?) under president George H.W. Bush (1988-1992). A Christian man. Very thoughtful.

  19. The early days of TBN were much different. They had biblical scholars, Hebrew teachers cult experts, ministers that actually preached the word, and a spirit of humility. All that drastically changed decades ago when the faith and prosperity people took over, and the current TBN has been in the enemys camp for decades now IMO. Few if anyone that is seeking the Lord would be drawn to most of the content now, especially the freak show that the so called praise- a – thons are.

    Yearly independent and publicly accessible financial audits were never part of any television ministry that I know of. Unless a ministry does this they have no right to ask for money IMO. The temptation for misuse of funds is just too great. Billy Graham set a great example here.

    It would take a miracle from God to change things now and maybe that will happen. More than likely God will judge these “ministries” as he will shortly judge his Church. Personal, intimate one on one evangelism may return to take its place. For now we have to endure the embarrassing circus side show that most Christian TV has become.

  20. The reformation of the 1500’s
    The Great Awakening of the 1700’s
    Now observe the Church.

    The writings of those of the reformation and those of the Great Awakening explain the condition of the Church (The mainline, publicly accepted church) and the description of then is no different than now.

    The devil doesn’t do anything new, he just throws out the same old bait to a new generation and it is gobbled up every time.

    The Roman Catholic Church did not go away because of the reformation.
    The Cold, dead, denominational church of the 1700’s did not go away because of the Great Awakening.

    This group of self-exalting hypocrites will not go away.
    They will always have a following because there are people who desire to hear what they offer.

    A new group must break away and begin to Worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

    In the words of our true Lord,
    “Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

  21. I couldn’t agree more with J. Lee Grady. He is a true voice in the wilderness. Let the reformation begin! God is the only one who can turn this big ship around and head it in the direction He intended all along.

  22. warriorbride Dec 11th 2013

    I totally agree and maybe God Judged Paul because he WAS fleesing the flock ! God can make you and BREAK you, but I DON ‘T agree with that their family didn’t hand down their land or whatever they had when they diedl, I seen that a lot in the old testment when thy say that they left it to their sons and not their daughters and so that is a reference that is what happened and then if there was no MALE then they would be able to leave it with the women Good article you weren’t AFRAID to speak the TRUTH and NOT COMPROMISE and speak out against this false prosperity gospel which so many christians are so DECEIVED! There WILL be a REMNANT in these last days where they WON’T BACK DOWN AND WILL WAR charggggggggggggggggge !!!!!!!!!!! lol

  23. Mark Elam Dec 11th 2013

    AMEN to Lee Grady’s article. Thanks, Lee.

  24. Every one who has wrote in regarding ” Christian Television ” remember just because you put Christian in front of it does not make it so… People to.

    What you all are looking for is there. Jesus crusified, the cross, the blood, justification, sanfication,rapture,real preaching, real music,real people, against the prosperity gosple, against the faith movement…….

    look for Sonlife Broadcasting Network also Sonlife Radio, it’s on Direct TV chanel 344, if you don,t have cable you can pick it up on your computer.

    All this is produced in the church in and on the church ground buildings in Baton Rouge Louisiana.

    If your looking for real preaching Holy Spirt filled tongue talking Christians check it out.

    It’s been on the air now for four years. What have you been watching?

  25. Allison Dec 11th 2013

    See the following from my former pastor:

    “The Last Reformation: The David Church” (c) 2006 by James W. Kehrli: http://cryfromthewall.com/

    Excerpt from Chapter 23: The Result of the Shaking: God’s Hand on His Church: http://cryfromthewall.com/chapter23aReformationNotRenewal.html

    In the 1980’s the Lord showed me a vision of what He is doing in His Church. He showed me how He is RE-FORMING His Church. He showed me a medieval-style cylindrical castle made of stones. It looked like a huge, stone, grain silo. This cylindrical castle reached ten stories high into the sky and could be seen clearly at a great distance. The Lord identified this castle as the Saul Church as it exists today. Then there was a terrible earthquake and shaking. Not only did the ground shake but the Lord laid His own hands on the ten story castle and shook it. The castle shook from bottom to top until all of the stones tumbled down and there remained only a large pile of stones. Then the Lord picked up the stones and started to separate them. He threw most of them away; however, He began to build with those that remained. By the time He was through, I could see a stone castle (with the same cylindrical shape) that was one story in height. All of the other stones were on the garbage heap. The one story castle was much shorter and less conspicuous than the original castle, but it looked much more solid and was much wider than it was tall. It appeared to be unshakable. This building was God’s Church that was after His own heart that He had re-formed for HIS own use, using the stones of the Saul Church.

    The TRUE unity of His people will be accomplished by a great shaking, a division of the stones and a consequent RE-FORMATION. The true Church or Remnant will be only a small percentage but it will be virtually unconquerable and unable to be compromised. This is the David Church, built on the unshakable foundation of having a heart wholly after God for Himself alone, a heart that is correctable and will do all of His will.

  26. 2 Chronicles 7:14: “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

    Matthew 21:13: “Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.”

    Prayer is needed more now than ever….God bless you…

  27. A good article which is timely.and true.
    Here in UK we have this charade of programs.
    Nearly all the “Christian ” channels air the same programs ( some at the same time !!) I call it commercial Christianity.
    I am interested in the truth of the program with” miracle spring water” and those who claim to have had thousands of dollars put in their bank account. Has any one investigated where ( and if) this money come from ?

    Lets pray for a clean up on TBN and the other stations. Fortunately in UK we have Revelation tv which seems to be well balanced in its output including live debates.

    Thanks for the article.
    Have a blessed Christmas to you all

    D <

  28. It’s all about money, these people are raking in millions of dollars. Look at the lavish hand carved furniture and expensive wool rugs. The whole setup speaks of money.

    Jesus warned us about the, deceitfulness of riches. I don’t know if there will ever be a change, if they spoke the truth it would lose ratings.

    GaryB

  29. Trying to be hopeful Dec 11th 2013

    OH, IS LEE GRADY EVER RIGHT!!!!

  30. OneChristianWoman Dec 11th 2013

    I am not going to read others replies before making mine.

    I gave my life to the Lord back in the 70’s and wasn’t a fan of Christian Broadcasting then (less so now!) so, believe it or not, didn’t even recognize the name!

    I did a little internet search on Paul Crouch and his wife, and ministry in general…not impressed.

    My Bible reading fell to 2 Peter 2, yesterday. Very timely. All I have to say is that I believe God gave Paul time to repent. I hope with all my heart he did.

    God will not be mocked. I personally see him, and the ministry in general, as just part and parcel of the world and sadly, the backslidden, apostate church.

  31. Joyce Romack Dec 11th 2013

    Bravo, well spoken

  32. They are only lavishly spending the money that is lavishly being sent to them!

    Although I have no use for televangelists, the only reason they do so well is because our world is FILLED with people who want their ears tickled and will pay whatever price to be told what they want to hear.

    So the entire blame lays on each individual reading this, and all those whom we touch shoulders with, i.e, our nation full of “Christians”. If no one supported them, the televangelists would have nothing. Case closed.

    One more thing….(so much for “case closed”!). Grady said that if they aren’t allowed in our pulpits, why should they be on TV? The sad answer, is that they are being allowed in our pulpits. There really isn’t any sin these days that is not accepted or overlooked in our evangelical churches today. If the church you are in looks at you sideways because you got rid of your covenant spouse and took another, just walk a block to the next church – their arms are open wide.

  33. Linda in CA, USA Dec 11th 2013

    In the first century church, they met together, ate together, prayed together and did daily business together. Freely the Lord gave and freely those of the Ekklesia gave amongst themselves and to their community (believers or no). They spent no time clamoring for funding to run ministries. They lived simply, face-to-face, helping and loving each other and those outside of their Ekklesia. That love and simplicity of living caused great increases in their numbers.

    Today, like every thing else in this country, preaching/teaching via TV/cable/satellite/internet etc has become a business. When something becomes a business on a large enough scale, accountability suffers. And even if you see the wrongs (huge mansions in Newport Beach, air conditioned dog houses, etc), what can you do to bring and end to such excessive living when the people will not listen to rebuke and reason? Selling the word of God is a big business. It takes much money to use the airwaves or cable to reach people and to support high-on-the-hog living.

    Should we partake of such? What did Paul do: he spent 3 years in the desert being taught by the Holy Spirit Himself! What does this say to you? 1) God gives freely and so should we. And we should not support in any way those that make a business of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 2) God told us in the New Testament that we have not need to be taught by any man. Paul showed us this by example. But, if we do (and I do listen to others and read what they put to print) need or want to listen to other men, there should be no obligation put on us for support – only as the Lord leads; for some men teach lies and deceit or what we call ‘another gospel’.

    I suggest that we do NOT need televised evangelism. It creates a mode of corruption and a corrupted gospel, including the obligation to pay-per-view. Nonsense. TV evangelism produces nothing but an individualized, fractured body of believers who find it easier to sit and watch some one else, while bolstering the orator’s ego and lining his pockets, rather than seek the Lord for oneself with all of one’s heart, mind, soul and strength.

    A true community in, by and for Christ meets regularly and together seeks the Lord on all things, learning to walk in His ways as one. Can you see the difference? And if there are some that are housebound, we as Christ’s disciples should visit these in order that they feel part of the Ekklesia and are able to partake of community. Televised whatever can not do that, being nothing but a spectator sport. Seek the Lord and he will lead you to others of like mind.

  34. Andrew Dec 11th 2013

    Christian TV is still very important worldwide – whether we like it or not.

    Of all things, it is MOST in need of desperate REFORMATION.

    -Andrew Strom

  35. Sarah Pom Dec 11th 2013

    I just ask one question…Did God want it there in the first place or was Christian TV just another one of mans best ideas?

  36. Andrew Dec 11th 2013

    I guess it is an obvious way to get the “word” out.

    No problem with that.

    But the way it is set up lends itself to “money” preachers.

    What a disaster.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  37. Marilyn Crow Dec 11th 2013

    Kay & Linda, well spoken,

    As to being able to `reform,` Christian T.V. notice that all the suggestions are related to rules & regulations. Now who is going to monitor, police them? It`s just rules & regulations that man is not able to enforce because this world system is run by Satan till God judges it.

    Now many people agree with the obvious errors but there is a very insidious false teaching that has slipped it J.Lee Grady`s comments. He said –

    Quote`It should be relevant to today’s culture. Young Christians today care about justice, world poverty and community transformation.`Unquote

    This is Dominionism – false teaching saying that through our efforts we can change communities `community transformation,` society & the world.
    Note Christians down through the centuries have always cared for others, had compassion & shown Christ`s love without partnering with the world or compromising their testimony.

    Here is Dominionism`s main false teaching.

    1. `We can change the world. `They seek people of good will whether Christian or non-Christian to lead society in 7 areas – religion, family, government, arts & entertainment, media, business & education. They call them the 7 moulders of culture.
    They partner with the world system, which belongs to Satan.

    2. They say -There will be a special army, transformed so they cannot die who will physically fight the enemies on earth. They call them `Joel`s army,` from Joel 2 but they misinterpret this for God says this army is the Northern army, (Joel 2: 20)

    3. They believe that they will take dominion of the earth & give it to Christ when He comes. They have an earthly focus.

    Andrew S. said that people on this site do not agree with NAR (New Apostolic Reformation – Dominion teaching) however it is infiltrating all areas of Christianity, through songs, books, teachings etc, like the frog who slowly gets boiled, this teaching is everywhere.

    Marilyn C.

  38. Andrew Dec 11th 2013

    Grady would be shocked that you lump him in with all that, Marilyn.

    You have taken an inch and run a mile.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  39. Bill Harper Dec 12th 2013

    I quit watching TBN years ago because it seemed like I had to sit though large amounts of spiritual garbage to find one person who preached the real Word of God with a real annointing from God. Recently I have been watching Swaggart;s program on Sunday, and although, Jimmy like the patriarch David, did go astray years ago, he has since repented. His son Donny I believe is even a better preacher of the true gospel than Jimmy, himself, and Donny’s son is an amazing preacher for his age,. I am 78 years old and usually preachers around my own age seem to be more in line with the truth than youngsters, but Gabriel preaches with a true annoing and these preachers preach the Word of God for today, not an unannointed ministry like I get in any of the local churches which I have attended. Without the annointing of the Spirit of the Holy God, preaching is worthless.

  40. C'mon Man!! Dec 12th 2013

    ARE YOU KIDDING?? It takes zero discernment to spot these flakes!! You don’t need to pray about it!!!
    even a satanist scraping up an iota of intelligence Watching these professional conmen and females would see through the plastic smiles, fake humility, forced hype, ABSOLUTE insincerity, shyster thievery, blatant disregard for Truth….

  41. Laurie J Dec 12th 2013

    Shortly before the death of Paul Crouch, the Lord told me that He was going to begin to thin the herd, (the wolves in sheep`s clothing). I believe that this is a sign of God`s judgment beginning at the house of God. Laurie

  42. Randall Dec 12th 2013

    I have an idea, let’s send Lee Grady’s column and all the comments here, to TBN… no wait, I have a better idea, let’s ask TBN to cover televangelist excesses in an unbiased look at morals of Christian broadcasters.

    No, wait, I have even a better idea yet, why don’t we pray to God and ask Him how HE wants Christian TV to be run? It is now obvious that flesh has crept in again (big time)

    I got turned off in the 1970’s when a person appeared on TV who had a hairdo that must have weighed 20 lbs, and then it took 20 boxes of Kleenex tissue to mop up the tears (sorry, Lord for the sarcasm)

    I don’t expect that much true change really will occur.

  43. Richard Dec 12th 2013

    The wolves do not want anyone to see the difference between a ministry that is holy and their ministries. It is blatantly obvious when you can see the differences.

  44. Randall Dec 12th 2013

    I sent TBN the following email, but I doubt that they will even respond. It is going to be a very sad time in heaven, when God the Father asks EVERYONE to give an account, and people try to excuse off, but He is NOT going to allow excuses. We better be under the blood of Jesus Christ, or we are going to be burning in hell fire. God sees the heart, and I, myself, almost ended up in the lake of fire, on August 30, 2002 in an automobile accident, and found myself being taken to hell, because I was a secret liar to God.

    Here’s my email to TBN (why don’t we all email TBN?)

    I wish everyone in TBN would honestly address the following discussion on the following website:
    http://www.revivalschool.com/its-time-to-reboot-christian-television/#comments

    Lee Grady has some important points to be made.

    Can TBN be honest? Or will this be another email left unanswered?

    Randall

  45. Marilyn Crow Dec 12th 2013

    Andrew,

    You said about my comment –

    Quote:`You have taken an inch and run a mile.` Unquote.

    Did you realise that if you are off 1 degree, then in 60 miles you will be off 60 degrees.

    Jesus is about transforming our minds, not transforming TV, communities, society & the world. That is the subtle undercurrent & it will emerge loud & strong next year & the next with the New Millennial goals in 2015.

    J. Lee Grady`s comments are planting seeds whether he knows it or not.

    Quote`Young Christians today care about justice, world poverty and community transformation…`Unquote.

    That is social transformation which was the subject at the G8 / G20 Religious Summit in Canada 2010 – an Interfaith gathering.

    The title was, `There is not only one way, there are many ways called to serve the `God we know by so many names.`

    Time to look into this `Trojan horse` that is in our midst.

    Marilyn.

  46. Andrew Dec 12th 2013

    Yes – except Grady is as much against all those things as you and I are.

    You are taking an inch and running a mile.

    Sorry.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  47. Marilyn Crow Dec 12th 2013

    Andrew,

    If `Grady is as much against all those things as you and I are,` as you say then why is he saying `community transformation?`

    Marilyn.

  48. Marilyn Crow Dec 12th 2013

    Andrew,

    No community is going to be transformed & it is wrong to encourage the youth with zeal & inexperience to think they can.

    The different conflicts of – gender, class, racial & national, are not going to be solved until Jesus comes & brings `the rod of iron,` & then finally in the New Heavens & New Earth.

    We need to continue to encourage our youth to know that Jesus transforms lives & that they can show His love, care & compassion to others as Christians have done through out history.

    Then maybe some of them will use the TV, Utube Media etc to truthfully & honestly proclaim God`s way of Salvation & not man`s so called community transformation.

    Those groups are already in our local community connecting us to Mother earth.

    It is important. Marilyn.

  49. Andrew Dec 12th 2013

    Communities have been transformed in every great Revival down through history.

    Look it up

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  50. Christian T.V appears to be an oxymoron – feeding oxygen to foolish pimples.

  51. David Cottrell Dec 12th 2013

    Wow! Your comments just make too much sense. God is not in the habit of making too much sense (I’m joking of course), guess they’re just too spiritual for the rest of us to figure out.

  52. 100% Zululander Dec 12th 2013

    Right Andrew, REAL Christianity changes communities. SPCA started by Christians, first ever home for mentally handicapped started by Christians, slavery stopped by Christians to name only a very few. Were so Heavenly minded that were no earthly use.
    Our kind of Christianity wants to get people saved only instead of making disciples & letting the Lord save them in the process.

  53. Be blessed all who love the Lord in truth and sincerity.
    As some of us have long warned………….turn tbn off
    go back to only bible reading. Come together
    for the edification of the body.
    But flee far any false teachings and prophets.
    on that note too I must warn of yet another huge new age
    movement.
    They preach on what is revelant for todays age…..
    YET the prophets never preached what was revelant
    nor conformed the MESSAGE to suit the ears of the hearers.
    They use paul as an example to preach revelance
    and pragmatical to a new generation.
    All the while forgetting that IF paul truly preached
    LIKE they do………..and conformed the message
    WHY DID HE GET SO MUCH PERSECUTION as well
    as win souls…………..
    Ever truly PONDER THAT ONE.
    These men of belial, preach on HOW to WIN SOULS
    do studies on HOW to win souls
    How to CHANGE the MESSAGE to win souls.
    Paul did shave his head , To win the jews
    BUT HE NEVER CHANGED THE MESSAGE.
    todays men of belial have changed the message.
    DONT preach and warn on sin
    YET JESUS DID the early apostels did,
    DONT warn of a DIRE need to REPENT of sin
    YET JESUS DID and all apostles did.
    BEWARE the what is RELEVANT culture of today.
    THEY underestimate the POWER of GOD.
    WHAT I believe…….and I KNOW TO BE TRUTH is
    PREACH THE GOSPLE
    and LET GOD ADD daily such as should be saved.
    NEVER compromise the message.
    ITS NEW age in disguise. TO win a world to the culture
    THROUGH the culture.
    Go out and preach the true gospel, ONE which WARNS
    and ENCOURAGES .
    one which beholds the GOODNESS of GOD
    and the SEVERITY of GOD.
    Understanding is a great treasure given of GOD
    for all who have all affections above.
    Be spirit LED and Not men FED.
    Tis they who lack the POWER
    for they look and see HOW to get people into churches
    or what works best for a culture……..
    STEAD of simply preaching the message and
    then whomever the elect of the day are
    WILL come and be saved.
    SEE it as it is . ONLY GOD can give the increase.
    IF you are winning a culture through what entertains the flesh
    You are NOT winning the culture to jesus.
    BE NOT CONFORMED to the world………….be ye TRANSFORMED.
    THE message should TRANSFORM the one hearing
    NOT conform to include it and the evils of that culture.
    THE message SHOULD NEVER BE ADAPTED TO FIT ANY CULTURE.
    your dress , clothes, eats and etc………….can be LIKE THEM
    so long as its not pagan etc.
    BUT THE MESSAGE cannot be changed.
    So instead of looking for what is RELEVANT or Pragmatic
    SEEK ONLY GOD………and HE SHALL GIVE THEE WORDS
    to tell any culture HOW TO BE SAVED.
    KEEP IT SIMPLE amen.

  54. Today may all , simple begin anew in the Lord.
    May all affections be above on Him
    and HE shall guide thee and give you words.
    Follow the examples of JESUS, the apostels
    and the Prophets of old.
    Seek the TRUTH and it shall be given you.
    One thing I have noticed.
    If ones heart is on anything of this world
    they will SEE it in the scrips…….
    and its a delusion given them , for they LOVED NOT THE LORD
    but something of the world.
    prosperity preachers SEE the scrips so different
    and take them OUTTA text………THEY SEE
    and their heart is given the DELUSION they desired.
    when they are made rich….or a dream come to pass
    IT is because God has allowed them the delusion of their heart.
    GO back and read the old holy scrips and you will see
    I speak truth.
    SO my point is……………IF ONE TRULY LOVES the LORD with the whole heart…………..TRUTH will be given for GOD is truth.
    but If in the heart lies another affection
    then the delusion of that affection they will SEE.
    and the end will be death in a lake of fire
    for they LOVED not the truth.
    I have missed you all. The simplicity I speak of is in
    Christ and his own can see the errors from the delusion.
    ON that note. GO BACK TO ONLY BIBLE reading.
    and soon eyes will be opened.
    read not to prove one wrong, or etc
    READ IT FOR THE LOVE OF THETRUTH
    and the TRUTH shall be revealed by the SPIRIT within all lambs.
    amen.

  55. Trying to be hopeful Dec 12th 2013

    I’d like to add that I do so wish all Christian TV worldwide would also kindly knock off the partisan politicking that portrays our Omnipotent God as a “slave” to folks who walk into voting booths. I’m so nauseated by the American attitude of “Oh dearie me, we’ll just have to wait for the next election and hope all the Tea Party Republicans win, because that’s the only way we and God can have what we both want.” In the fall of 2012, I heard the late Paul Crouch, Sr. imply on one edition of TBN’s “Behind the Scenes” series – without mentioning any names – that God’s eternal plan for Israel and the Middle East could NOT come to pass unless American voters elected a Republican President and a Republican Congress that would take all American troops who have come home from the Middle East and send them right back there to stay. Incredible.

    Just before Christmas 2012, on one edition of TBN’s weeknightly “Praise The Lord” series from their New York studio, one guest was a short, fat, bald, black-garbed Italian-American gent described as a “Christian comedian”. (WARNING!) He proceeded to deliver (just like the usual screaming radio political talker) an obnoxious, angry, ranting, semi-political, mostly un-Biblical tirade with no mention of Jesus being able to do anything about anything – par for the course – much to the delight of his studio audience, most of whom were middle-aged African-American women. (I did not know, for instance, that Almighty God had NO power to save, physically heal, spiritually heal, mentally heal, restore, supply the needs of, and materially bless any American military veteran unless both whoever lives in the White House and all Americans are infallible.)

    And then we wonder why the world thinks ill of us.

  56. wineskin Dec 12th 2013

    In case nobody noticed, “Christianity” has morphed into one of the largest, most influential and diversified merchandising businesses in the world—all tax-free in the name of God no less. And, like it or not, nearly every single “Christian” is a proud, bible-bearing contributor to that world wide business AND ALL THAT IT CONTAINS in one way or another…

    So maybe it’s time for every one of us to stop, step back and take an honest look at the influential mess we have inadvertently invested our heart, soul, mind, spirit and body into.

    Maybe it’s time to deal with what Jesus was driving at when He told us we can not serve two masters.

    Might be time to quit depending on Christianity and get back to depending on Christ.

    I know it can be done.

  57. What interesting comments, and observations
    Here in the UK we have REVELATION TV which produces some original programmes. NO TELETHONS. They just make a need known without laboring the point. You can watch them on line 24/7
    Dave earlier asked a question about those who claim to have a “Divine transfer of wealth” sometimes they claim to have thousands of dollars added to their bank balance overnight.
    Does anyone out there know how the televangelists actually get folks to say that they have received these amounts. Anyone any first hand experience of knowing some one who has been on these
    ” Miracle spring water progs ( I think its now “Heavenly manna”.
    I am really interested in how the ” testimonies ” obtained.
    Look forward to seeing if TBN reply to Randall’s e.mail .
    Will you print the answer please Andrew ?. ( assuming they send one.

  58. Averyl Dec 12th 2013

    100%Zululander, – Amen!

    Randall Lowrey – Great to have you back with us, we missed you too!

    Anaru, – can you email me please, just a “hello” will do!

    [email protected]

  59. Marilyn Crow Dec 13th 2013

    Hi Randall,

    So great to hear your encouraging & uplifting comments. Bless you dear brother in the Lord.

    Your sis in the Lord, in the small isle off the coast of NZ.

    Marilyn.

  60. Marilyn Crow Dec 13th 2013

    Actually Randall, you said, by the Spirit of the Lord very, very powerful comments. And great to hear from you.

  61. Be blessed all lambs of the Lord. Indeed we have trying days
    ahead. While reading in jeremaih again, I came to
    a strong conclusion, that as were the jews shortly before God
    destroyed them…………so too has become the lukewarm
    synagogues.
    I mean in all points todays wordly version of christanity
    has become what God despised about the jews
    who knew him not in heart but by mouth only.
    THUS the conclusion that came so very clearly is……
    JUDGEMENT is coming against the church.
    as with the jew, so with the gentile.
    a man will be raised up who will persecute the body
    as with the jews so too shall it be done unto
    the gentile churches. For way too long the people
    have fixed their hearts upon the world
    and the worship of baal. And
    the hearts of many have waxed cold and not bold in the Lord.
    IF by the spirit I were led to preach peace unto the churches
    then I would. As did the false prophets of the true prophets day.
    But what I see coming………….is JUDGEMENT.
    for years the few have cried and prayed for a turning around of the world and churches
    and for years they heed NOT the cry of repentance.
    For years the few who warn have been rejected
    by the world, and WORSE yet, by those who profess to
    be christain.
    For years, have some have prayed and longed for true fellowship
    hoping in heart for a revival of TRUE biblical christanity
    and for years those who profess his name
    have NOT HEEDED the cry for repentance
    THUS the eagle and all nations , churches, synagogues
    will soon be given the desires of the heart.
    FOR for years have they cried bring up world peace and unity
    a man or men to lead us to world peace and unity.
    and for years have they mocked and planned to destroy
    and annihilate all those quiet in the land.
    and for years the churches have only waxed worse
    and have picked up this torch of world peace and unity
    and sin waxes only worse………..and
    still the people CRY NOT unto GOD to deliver
    and rid the evil in the churches.
    the hearts have become transformed NOT to GOD
    but the world
    and the hearts and have become transformed to the
    things of this world, conformed to the things of this world.
    and thus have they long taught my people
    you can indeed love both the things of the world and GOD.
    Lies of the men of belial and sadly have
    many that were called, right into the snare of darkness.
    Let us hear NOT of the HOLY one of Israel
    says many , let us have the things of the world
    and a whole new image of salvation, of GOD , and of
    HIS CHRIST…………and thus
    shall they be given them the desires of their heart.
    THUS they shall be given the delusions of their own heart.
    IF my people shall repent, then none of these judgements would
    have come upon them.j
    But rising early Has GOD sent prophets to warn
    and they heed them NOT.
    and make mockery of all who hold the Bilbe as truth
    and JESUS as the ONLY way.
    Thus great darkness comes soon upon the land.
    Has GOD not been grascious, sending his own
    unto synagogues of satan, the world, and lukewarm churches
    YET not only has the evil NOT ceased
    TIS GROWN massively worse.
    I shall not prophesy of peace and world unity and worldy
    prosperity as do many.
    I will say as the SPIRIT bids me.
    and as all prophets , Apostles, lambs, and CHRIST himself
    I expect Persecution for my words of truth.
    PRAY FOR REPENTANCE NOW…………………
    and win souls.

  62. For as in the days of Noah……………hearts and imaginations of evil
    and as the days of Lott sodomy rules the hearts and many nations now.
    And the churches ONLY WARM up to it.
    NEW age has infiltrated the whole of the entire system
    and sadly the churches, many of them have loved to have
    this new way of thinking.
    REPENT and believe the gospel.
    Walk as did the lamb. BE YE HOLY for GOD IS HOLY.
    Great persecutions are coming against the true lambs.
    ONLY make no mistake……….YOU will NOT be called
    christain,
    you will NOT be seen as Good, caring and kind
    You will be seen by the blind
    as simply dangerous to society
    and only in the way of world peace and unity.
    BE NOT AFRAID of men whose breath is in their nostrils,
    FEAR only GOD, and knowing the TERROR of GOD
    persuade them to come to the LORD.
    TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
    Time is running out.
    and as it was written
    AT TIMES END…………………..many would MOCK
    any who spoke as though the end were nigh.
    and thus so it is TODAY.
    NO messages on HIS coming
    NO messages of the dire need of repentance.
    Only a need to come to have the pleasures in life.
    ARISE and speak and tell them, and warn them
    and do all for the furtherance of the gospel.
    I love you all, I warn us all, I encourage us all
    BE YE HOLY, walk not as the world
    walk not as many churches,
    simply walk as DID CHRIST.
    Amen.

  63. Doug P. Dec 13th 2013

    This is great for a start…another thing that needs to be done is to stop bowing and kneeling at the feet of the Pharisees over there in Israel!!

  64. L. Alex Smith Dec 13th 2013

    Maybe the J.W.’s are correct in their theology that ‘the Beast’ of Revel. is the U.S allied with the U.K. Up until now I’ve disregarded this idea, but the though occurs to me, “The Great Whore (the Church that is prostituted) rides on The Beast.” Think about it. A prostitute is one who sells her body for money or gain. For John to describe a religious organisation as one who sells herself for money as well as uniting (spiritually) with “many lovers” (pagan religions and New Age concepts) seems to relate quite well to the televised “Christian” programming. Uniting spiritually with the witchcraft prosperity doctrine (I mean by that, the manipulation of spiritual principles to get what you want, they say ‘Bible verses’) as well as the occultic, ‘Kundalini’-type spiritism in the Charismania circles…does this not describe Spiritual Adultery, or in the case of the money-making business of Christian TV, Spiritual Prostitution…? But my original opening statement is based now on the fact that MOST “Christian TV” comes from the US and the UK– the two allies that have “freedom of religion”…this Spiritual Prostitution “rides on the back of these combined governmental systems…. hmmmm… and then “drunk with the blood of the martyrs” may mean, NOT “causing the martyr’s deaths, literal persecution” BUT instead, “drunk, inerbriated, intoxicated AS A RESULT. What I am inferring is the promulgation of these two movements (prosperity/ Toronto-style) causes a drunken-ness, laughing hysterically, while TRUE Christians are being slaughtered by Muslims (mostly). A wanton disregard for the plight of the real Body, because of “the deceitfulness of riches” and this so-called “Joy/Laughter” rubbish… Just some speculation here…

  65. Vi LaFond Dec 13th 2013

    I pray that people will listen to the message. It insults our intelligence to listen to these men. They are duping the people out of their money and stealing their souls for money and some delibertely to turn them from Jesus.

    Marcus Lamb (Daystar TV) A dollar a day keeps the devil away and also TJ Jakes

    Mike Murdock- Give $58 so God can start working on your family’s salvation, your finances and healings. I didn’t know that God needs money to do these things.

    David Cerullo and guests give $1000 in Januray so God can determine how much He will give you in the next six months. Then at the end of six months give another $1000.

    These are only a couple of things if you listen to their teachings you will hear their lies and they work to make you feel guilty if you don’t or get you hyped up on getting money. We are greedy people and that is where our hearts are. It grieves my heart and spirit to hear what almost every preacher on TV is hawking. Come Lord Jesus come and expose the heresies.

    Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

  66. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    Andrew,

    You said –

    [quote]`Communities have been transformed in every great Revival down through history. Look it up.`[unquote]

    Yes I do know about individual people`s lives being changed. My grandfather came out of the Welsh revival & I have read about other great moves of God in that manner. However `communities are not transformed,,` only individual people & their behaviour.

    God says

    `For all that is in the world….is not from the Father but is from the world, & the world is passing away…` (1 John 2: 15 – 17)

    Christ overcame the world order, the sphere dominated by the prevalence of sin, with its modes, manners & ministrations; with its customs, fashions & laws. This whole system of things which is divorced from God & which offers position, possession & power to those who serve its interests. Christ declined every overture made to Him & stated emphatically, `I have overcome the world.` (John 16: 33)

    With the strongest insistence, He constantly affirmed His divine authority, but with equal persistence He consistently refused all offered positions in the community.

    At the cross under the direst conditions of conflict, when everything was unfavourable, & the utmost power of evil arrayed against Him, He conquered the oppressor & vanquished the diabolical power of the foe. `Thanks be unto God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 15: 57)

    No `community transformation` -(meaning an entire change in form,) No, but a sudden judgment that will come upon this world.

    Don`t let Global language infiltrate your mind.

    Marilyn.

  67. David Marsh Dec 14th 2013

    My dear Andrew
    “I guess it is an obvious way to get the “word” out.”

    I am personally not convinced that God wants to resurrect organised television Christian programs.

    However, when God has a Holy Spirit Led evangelist servant HE can certainly organise that individual to appear on National T.V. like He did with Torbin Sondergaard a few years ago.

    But again, I think the time is already here whereby God is now raising up Holy Spirit Led servants who will do His Will – out on the streets – where all of their exploits will be shown everywhere on Social Media via Iphones and the like.

    This is where the ‘Word’ will be spread I believe.

    God bless you

    David Marsh.

  68. Andrew Dec 14th 2013

    I hope so, David.

    And Marilyn – the whole nation of Wales was transformed by the Welsh Revival. Please look it up – instead of coming across like an “expert” on these things – when you have not truly looked at them.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  69. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    Andrew,

    You said,

    Quote.`the whole nation of Wales was transformed..`Unquote.

    So God doesn`t mean what He wrote….

    `We know that we are of God, & the WHOLE WORLD lies under the sway of the wicked one.` (I John 5: 19)

    About `expects,` we have a saying that an expect is just a drip under pressure, & I`m sure we are all that at times!!!!

    Regards, Marilyn.

  70. Marilyn Crow…
    I don’t know what country you live in. I live in the USA. Our true history of our founding fathers is one of giving God the glory. There are scriptures written on most of our national monuments and buildings. This nation was founded on Christian faith. The writings of most of our founding fathers show a faith in Jesus Christ. The whole world system may be under the wicked one, but that does not mean that communities, and even whole nations can be influenced by revival, of which the Great Awakening of the mid 1700’s was the influencing factor that gave our people the drive to create a nation with the freedom to worship God. Even though the evil is still present, and even takes over at times, does not mean that a true revival will not have any effect on the whole of the people. In fact, if you were to observe the faithfulness of the Church in this nation it goes hand in hand with the political control. When the Church fails to follow the Spirit, the evil takes control in politics also.

  71. Acts 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
    27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

    this also is a great example of preaching the truth and turning a community around. The once great temple of the goddess Diana is no longer in existence because of Pauls preaching.

  72. You have heard the phrase “What Would Jesus Do?”
    The history of this phrase is from a small town in Kansas where the Church leaders got together and came up with this confession. They asked all their people to ask themselves this question concerning everything they did. The people did so, and the entire town was transformed and became on fire for God, living lifestyles of holiness.

  73. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    DonaldN,

    I do believe what you said that

    Quote.`even whole nations can be influenced by revival,` Unquote.

    Your word is influenced but not transformed. Of course if it wasn`t for the Lord transforming people`s minds & then behaviour the world would long ago have been annihilated. (Of course God would not allow that.) And of course it was & is the Christians who selflessly help the poor, care for the sick & dying etc,

    But what I am saying is the Dominionists & the Global language would have us to believe that transformation includes the Political & Economic Systems of Man. The people in Wales & other places all over the world have had God transforming their minds & behaviours but God was not transforming the Systems of Man in those places under which those people still had to live. Those systems will be judged.

    Yes, Amen let`s give God the glory all the time, but let`s not think that God`s way to save mankind is to transform the world. That is casting aside Christ`s work on the cross.

    Words & their meanings are important as we are slowly being conditioned to believe that `together we can do it.` ie `Transform our communities, our society, our nation, our world.

    Hope that explains what I mean. Marilyn.

  74. Andrew Dec 14th 2013

    Nobody here said “We can do it”.

    What we say is “God can do it” – and has done it many times down through history.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  75. Andrew Dec 14th 2013

    Marilyn – I say this with kindness-

    Go and study Revivals and Awakenings.

    Then you will actually know something on this subject to be able to comment

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  76. ValleyAnt Dec 14th 2013

    Wayne mentioned Son Life Broadcasting. Wayne, I took a brief look at that link, and what I see is more show and performance. As I watched Gabe Swaggart preaching (I didn’t watch long), I was reminded of this (and for no reason as the Spirit often ‘brings to recollection’ things that can help us to know or be discerning): the churches have long been infiltrated, and many of those who infiltrate are not actually Christians but are trained to act, talk, walk like Christians. They are also trained to manipulate and control the crowds. There’s a ministry that teaches believers (the simple) to think and thinkers (the agnostic and atheist) to believe. I also do my best to encourage all Christians to think (because one doesn’t need discernment so much if one will observe, scrutinize, and think). Many preachers talk and act alike; it isn’t the Holy Spirit making them act and talk alike and use the same tools to manipulate the crowds to say amen and give money. If not the Spirit, what makes them act alike? Well, sometimes (not all the time), it’s because they are non-Christians who’ve been trained and brought in as wolves among the flock; having been trained ‘in the same school’, they will use the same tools to fool Christians. Here’s a link for anyone who wants to read freely the story of Alberto Rivera, a Jesuit priest who learned the ins and outs of the Catholic church and its mission to put an end to the Christian church (i.e. to all true ministry that proceeds from God) and who escaped the Catholic church to become a believer: http://www.fmh-child.org/AlbertoRivera.html

    Allison, you shared a book link and a vision from the book. That certainly sounds like the real Church. What man builds is always tall and ‘reaches up’ (monuments and ministries to himself) so others can see him and his exaltation as God (‘high and lifted up’); but what God builds is humble and ‘reaches out’ to others. I’ve bookmarked the link and will read the book sometime.

    Randall said, “Why don’t we pray to God and ask Him how HE wants Christian TV to be run?” God also wants to use the airwaves to get the Gospel out. If it’s okay for Him to use radio and other media (such as writing), why not TV? But God’s ways are much higher than ours: when we preach the Gospel, we make ‘Christian movies’ and such; but God wants Christians who will make not Christian movies but movies through which He will be the One reaching masses. A movie or show doesn’t have to have overt Christian themes; God can use an idol called ‘the unknown god’ to speak to heathens. In order to spread His message, God needs yielded believers not Christianized people. But we are a nation of Christianized people who barely believe in (follow) God, therefore, there is little reformation. When God speaks to us, He ‘speaks Human’ (our languages are not His; He uses our languages to commune with us); therefore, if we hope to ‘speak Christ’ to people, we must ‘speak Human’ (be relatable) to them first. Movies about ‘Christians’ (like ‘Fireproof’, ‘Courageous’, etc.) rarely even affect non-Christians (and hardly save Christians). God must put His Signature on Christian media to breathe Life into it, and it in turn will breathe Life into the masses. He does this through those who will let Him do the thinking (instead of doing it themselves) when it comes to promoting His Kingdom.

    All through the Bible, people gave God names as their eyes were opened to this or that facet of Him. After He destroyed the Egyptians through ten signs and wonders and death in the sea, Moses sang in Ex. 15, “The LORD is a Man of war; the LORD is His Name.” Hagar, abandoned and cast out realized that God was more than “the God of Abraham” but was also “The God Who Sees” (i.e. her God also. Amen). We make too much of ourselves today and think that God is some boring inferior being waiting around religious places for people to gather (who would be attracted to someone like that); we believe we are the ones who know how to run things ‘out there in the world’. But as our blind and blinded eyes are opened, different believers (if they are indeed believers and not Christianized people) in their different areas will begin to say like so many in the OT whose eyes were opened to see, “The Lord is a Businessman; the Lord is a Politician; the Lord is a Scientist; the Lord is a Professor; the Lord is an Engineer; the Lord a Salesman; the Lord is a Banker and Financier; the Lord is a Parent; the Lord is a Doctor; the Lord is a Techie; the Lord is a CEO; the Lord is a Producer, Director, and Actor; the Lord is a Mathematician; the Lord is a Psychologist; the Lord is a Pharmacist; the Lord is a Surgeon; the Lord is a Specialist; the Lord is; the Lord is His Name.” We think God is restricted to religion and have forgotten that He runs all the affairs of the world and that the only reason we know how to do anything is because we have a very, very, very tiny bit of His knowledge. Due to this our ignorant thinking, Christian efforts continue to fall flat; the best people get often is a soul rush of emotions and perhaps ‘revival’ (which can be argued); but the primary work of God is continually missing (proving the extent of His absence in our attempts): reformation and reformed hearts, minds, mindsets, and lives. As someone above said re: rebooting Christian TV, we should know when to leave the blind alone who lead the blind. God’s works, especially in the face of such tremendously inferior works, will be very manifest when they come. If no one else knows what is of God and what isn’t, God certainly knows what is from Him (and what isn’t). As James said, “Known to God from eternity are all His works” (Acts 15:18). Amen. While we wait for “His works”, let’s throw away all these worthless works which pretend to be from God but aren’t, let the blind lead the blind, and let the dead bury their own dead. God’s focus or concern is not on false works but on His own works. “Known to God from eternity are all His works.” Amen. Amen.

  77. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    Andrew,

    I do have books on Revival & awakenings from my parents. I also have other writings on the subject in Christian magazines. So I am not speaking lightly or trying to be an expert. However I am trying to have a discussion on the dangers of using the word `transformation,` giving the sweeping idea that man`s systems were changed in these revivals whereas we all know it was God`s grace to the human hearts which changed their minds, their hearts & their behaviour. But nowhere, not any where do we see God transforming man`s Political & Economic system controlled by Satan.

    These two areas are quite separate & distinct. Marilyn.

  78. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    Andrew,

    I appreciate you saying – Quote `Marilyn – I say this with kindness` Unquote.

    I also say this with concern for you & others being misunderstood by this next generation. `If you haven`t already then it would be good to go & read what the world means & is teaching our young people about `transforming the world.`

    Language is how we communicate & we need to know what those words are conveying to others.

    Hope that is clear in what I am concerned about. Marilyn.

  79. Andrew Dec 14th 2013

    None of us are talking about Politics or Systems

    We are talking about whole communities being transformed

    Has happened many times

    Let us leave this fruitless discussion alone now – OK?

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  80. 100% Zululander Dec 14th 2013

    Marylin you seem to have a very narrow view of the meaning of transformation.
    Ever consider how the world came out of the dark ages when the bible was placed in the hands of the people in a language they could understand? how it changed the countries laws?
    England would have ended like the revolution in France if it wasn’t for God bringing revival to England.
    The more the bible was disseminated in a country the more ‘civilized’ it became. Our good works glorifies God.

  81. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    We mean one thing but the world means another & that is the Global language that this next generation speaks. It is not my language but the world`s & if you want to reach them you need to know what they are meaning when they talk of `transforming communities.`

    This `narrow,` view is coming through Christianity while people just think `yes God changed communities before.` But this mindset of total transformation Political & Economic is being taught in schools, in communities, at the UN & even in your churches – (God transforms communities.)

    But obviously at this point you don`t see the danger in your language. Just wait till the Millennium goals come out in 2015 & see your churches partnering with the world to `transform communities,` their way in a greater way, placing guilt upon the congregation for the evils of the world.

    So let`s continue to reach out & understand what this generation is saying & what the Lord`s answer is.

    Marilyn.

  82. Marilyn… you said
    “This `narrow,` view is coming through Christianity while people just think `yes God changed communities before.` But this mindset of total transformation Political & Economic is being taught in schools, in communities, at the UN & even in your churches – (God transforms communities.)”

    You have hit the nail on the head. J. Lee Grady made the comment that this is what the younger generation is wanting. They want this because it is what they are being taught by the world system. That is why the Christian TV along with churches need to address this issue, only according to God’s way of accomplishing it.

  83. Trying to be hopeful Dec 14th 2013

    Ladies and gentlemen, I simply can’t fathom much of what I’m reading here. I was under the impression that the Almighty God of the Old and New Testaments, revealed to us as the Lord Jesus Christ, was actually alive and existing on Earth BEFORE His Second Coming. And that He was, and is, more powerful than ANY Earthly human element, including evil, secular governments, attitudes, and so forth. And that what is described in the last two chapters of Revelation will actually come to pass in the future. Was I sorely mistaken?

    Does anyone anywhere know the location of any society (or subdivision thereof) where it is still legally permissible to disagree with born-again, Spirit-filled, sanctified hopelessness, despair, and doom?

    Moreover, can someone please point out to me the specific Scripture verse that says: “Between 1960 A.D. and the Lord’s Second Coming, the Kingdom of God is utterly defeated in every way, so just call it quits”?

  84. 100% Zululander Dec 14th 2013

    Do we have to “counter” what the world says or how it interprets biblical statements & intentions?
    The world has been saying many things thru the ages to divert christians. Our focus is the same as 2000 years ago.
    Make disciples & do good works, that’s what we need to do, & “warn” one another about.

  85. Andrew Dec 14th 2013

    I don’t care what the world says about so-called “Transformation”.

    I only care that the gospel itself – preached in power – has the power to literally “transform” whole peoples and communities. And has done so many times.

    What the world says means little.

    Blessings to all,

    Andrew Strom

  86. Marilyn Crow Dec 14th 2013

    The word `gay, used to mean `happy & joyful. I am gay. (happy)
    But that word has changed to meaning to be a `homosexual.` So we don`t say `I am gay,` to people now as we try to relate to others meaningfully.

    So it is with `transforming communities.` We mean one thing – Christ changing lives but the world means another thing by that expression – changing the world to bring equality to all. Thus as we relate to those in the world, speaking the Global language we need to know what they mean by certain words otherwise we are not communicating effectively to them

    Marilyn.

  87. Marilyn… J Lee Grady was not talking to the world when he made the comment about transforming communities. He was talking to Christians, about how Christians should be promoting the Gospel on Christian TV. So why are you so adamant about the use of a particular word. If he would have used a different word to express his thoughts would that have made a difference to you? You are only arguing the use of the word. You ignore the idea behind his statement because of the word he used.

    2 Timothy 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

  88. Richard Dec 15th 2013

    Personally I think revival is the solution to Christian TV and its lies.

  89. Carl Emerson Dec 15th 2013

    Friends,

    I find it sad that we seem unable to process some of the more challenging issues that arise.

    On the last thread we were unable to tackle the issue of whether the Lord is moving in judgement in our day.

    In this thread we seem to struggle to see the difference between man made ‘transformation’ that seeks to change the political landscape by “Christianization”, and genuine revival impacting and redeeming society which is a sovereign work of His hand.

    The problem is that many don’t see the modern church being deceived into abandoning true redemption via individual repentance and embracing a man centered ‘kingdom now’ gospel…

    How about a little more patience with each other?

    I think it would be good for us all to pray for open ears and hearts as we discuss these more controversial issues… who knows – By His grace we might learn something new…

    Blessings,

    Carl Emerson.