CIVIL WAR IN THE USA? – The Visions

-Andrew Strom.

Before the recent US election and “gun” controversy, many would have laughed at the idea of Civil War or similar conflict in America. I guess it is not quite so “laughable” now…

I got a lot of nasty and bitter personal attacks aimed at me last
week over my article, “Do Christians Love Guns?” People accused
me of all kinds of twisted motivations for publishing such a thing.
But the honest truth is that I am genuinely concerned. Concerned
for a country that I love and a people that I love. I feel many
Christians are being driven into a great anger that can only result
in grief. Perhaps when you read the prophecies below you will
understand my concern. I truly would hate to see any of my friends
caught up in such a conflict. Here are the visions-

Kenny Atnip (Jan 2013)-
“Some time ago God showed me and some others that America
would enter an internal war. You can call it civil war or revolutionary
war or anything you like, but it is coming. God showed me plainly
that many Christians would be tempted to be part of a war against
the government and that this war would be part of his judgment on
the U.S.A. and we should not get involved. The current government´s
actions are because of God´s judgment so he who resists this
government resists God´s ordinance.

Global war is coming as well, and America will be attacked, and
after all of these things I saw a time of peace again in the land.
America will be humbled and once again look to God as it´s
provider and defender.

The message to Christians here in America is the same that
Jeremiah told to Judah- Submit to God´s judgment and it will go
well for you, resist and it will cost some their lives and others their
freedom…”

Darren Smith (June 2009)-
“Last night while praying before I went to bed, The Lord gave me
a vision that really rattled me. In the vision I saw this land split
into four parts with each one under its own flag. Each region had
terrible destruction and many people were dead. As I looked over
the destruction I was crying and the Lord asked me, “Why are
you crying over the fall of Babylon? As a matter of fact, why have
you been praying for the healing of Babylon?”

In this vision I didn’t have an answer and the Lord opened a scroll
and started reading off the indictments against our country, but
before each one he clearly called the USA Babylon. The list was
long and to the point, with such points as the killing of several
generations of unborn children. Beside this charge He added that
these babies had been sacrificed to the god of self. The list also
included greed, idolatry, pride, fornication, and many others, so
many I could not even read them all.

As I looked at the list of charges I was overwhelmed and broken
by the fact that we live every day in a nation that is so far removed
from God and in total opposition to the Kingdom of God, yet we
are comfortable here. We have become just like Lot living in
Sodom, the prosperity that the nation offers us has blinded us
from the evil that rules this land. We complain about how bad it
is but still stay attached to it with every ounce of strength we have.

The Lord told me to look at the nation as He sees it, not through
my eyes but through His. I could not look too long before I had to
agree and repent of loving Babylon. Once I repented the Lord told
me to prepare for the fall as time is running out. I must preach the
Gospel of The Kingdom, not the Gospel of America. America is
already judged, the time of shaking is now and will increase rapidly…”

‘Journey’ (Jan 2013)-
“I too believe that the United States is headed for a civil war or
something to that nature. I have friends who are in the “Patriot”
movement so I hear of things happening that the media will never
report. In a nutshell, here is my conclusion to what I hear. There
have been hundreds of thousands of assault rifles sold in the past
year. There have been laws and rules put into force against assault
rifles. Why would this conflict be?… A move to rile up the people
has been put into play. Arm the people and then make laws to
make them revolt against the Government. The underlying purpose
is actually to cause the individual states to secede from the union…
Divide and conquer is the idea.”

Kenny Atnip – “Civil War in U.S.” (Dec 2010)-
“My 16-year-old daughter, Maryann, had a dream a few days ago.
She dreamed of civil war against the current government. The
scene was very chaotic and those in rebellion to the government
were going house to house forcing any and all men to join with
them. Many of us Christians were in hiding, not willing to join in
a rebellion against the government.

She awoke in the middle of the night with a strong taste of blood
in her mouth. Her 13-year-old sister, Aimee, woke up as well and
immediately asked her what was wrong. The 16-year-old said that
she had the taste of blood in her mouth to which the 13-year-old
asked, “Were you dreaming of war?” Somehow she knew that
she was dreaming of war.

Last November my three-year-old son, Jeremiah, slept with Mom
and Dad. He awoke at 5:30 AM yelling, “War is coming … people
are dying … people are crying to God.” He has no idea what these
things are. It woke me out of a dead sleep and I sat up and looked
at him. He was wide awake…

We will have 5 years of terror and turmoil beginning very soon…
I believe the government will begin rounding up people that are on
a list. If we are on that list, don´t resist or run, God sends some
away to protect them. God will vindicate the righteous in his time.”

Donald replies-
“Kenny- that advice is the same as that given to the Israelites.
Don´t resist when King Nebuchadnezzar comes to take you away.
If you go willingly you will be established in a foreign land, if you
resist you will die. (We may or may not actually die, but our lives
could become so miserable we will wish we would die). Good
advice for all of us at this unsettling time.”

‘Journey’ replies-
“Yes Kenny, Good advice. It is better to serve God while in captivity
than to die resisting His purpose. God is doing this to the Church
because of their pride and arogance. God is humbling His Church.”

Could civil war be coming to America? What should the Christians’
response be? We would love to hear your comments, my friends.

-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic below-

-Blessings to all – Andrew Strom ( [email protected] ).

Posted in Articles by Andrew on January 21st, 2013 at 10:28 am.

413 comments

413 Replies

  1. One of the most chilling posts i’ve read in a while.

  2. fabakary Jan 21st 2013

    In those days i do find it difficult to understand why the lord had to say to follow him will mean to hate not only father, mother, children, etc but even our own lives . Life circumstances have taught me , fighting my right of self preservation, family etc at all cost will led to disobedience to Christ words which says i must love even my enemies. When professing christian cry “i must keep this, i must have this or that at all cost ” then at that moment they have cease walking in the path of Christ because sooner or later it will lead to disobedience, to the teachings of Christ. And where the teachings of Christ words are disobey expect anything. For example if the teaching of Christ word about Love is disobey in a major sense then expect to see all that can results because of hate which is the opposite of love. But Christ teachings are not only words but spirit. The problem we have obeying Christ words is living a life without the empowering energy of the holy spirit. We are busy with the issues of life. We have less time with the Lord in order to hear his promises . Imagine to hear a word from the Lord by any means saying “Fear not, do not worry about life , this or that even in death I am with you” that will settle all the cry , and fears of self preservation. But we are busy even when we open the very scripture which say do not worry or fear those that can only kill the body, do not repay evil with evil , etc it is like we are not hearing anything from those words because we are not in the spirit, to received the words from the spirit. Some of us have two Jobs , plenty time to make money, no time for devotion with the Lord and the few hours we have is just to sleep and we think we can be follows of Christ with such a lifestyle. Spirit will beget spirit, but if we did not sow in spirit through faith , and devotion to the lord how can we have a harvest of a spirit filled life ? the yoke of Christ , which is his words are only easy and light when we are daily in him ,remember He is the one that gives rest, but if we are in self energy His yoke words or teaching will become a burden. It can only become rest by the help and strength we received from Christ this will require intimacy and He admonish us to escape the distraction of the world we must always have time for praying . If our lord will pray whole nights to fulfill his mission on earth are we more spiritual than our lord , to be able to fulfill our holy calling in Christ without quality daily devotion? I think the problem is must of us are too busy , we have less time with the lord and so his yoke or teaching become a heavy burden.Another problem is some are still in the law , they see nothing beyond eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth. Agree with you brother Andrew on the Gun issue.

  3. Camalunghi Jan 21st 2013

    Sometime ago I thought about such a scenario, but I couldnt imagine how such a thing might happen……I dont want to comment on arguements of the various sides involved in the politics. But seeing all the bitterness exhibited from various sides in the USA, Civil war might not be so outlandish a thought, there are many strong and extreme views rising up and gaining ground and popularity. I love the US, and I certainly dont want to see Civil war……but there is a danger and it isnt difficult to raise an army in the US – especially as guns are legal. I am aware of the arguements to justify carrying weapons and I wish to stay neutral. But a Civil war may well be on the cards sadly…..and the whole world is a more dangerous place.

  4. Years ago Dimitru Dudaman had a vision in which he was told:

    When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety – from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,,..” (He told me two other countries, but I didn’t remember what they were.) “…they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn!”

    I’ve been watching for the people to starting “fighting against the government” from the “middle of the country.” Told my dad recently to “watch and when you see the government calling out troops to fight the American people all hell is getting ready to break loose.”

  5. Dangerous Times Jan 21st 2013

    Here is some food for thought:
    Maybe the mighty Christian nation that has two horns like a lamb, is starting to speak like a dragon?

  6. Joshua Harris Jan 21st 2013

    Thanks for your concern, Andrew. pray for us (Americans) we really need it.

    I have read your articles/emails. I think there is some misunderstanding when it comes to some of the political views you have commented on. I remember when you wrote about the health care debate and you said something to the effect that American Christians do not want poor people to have health care. It was untrue, and I don’t know how much further it could be from the truth. It may look that way to you, on the outside looking in. But untrue, nonetheless. I have heard you out… I just think you’ve missed it on these political issues. Not bitter here. But you don’t see the bill of rights as in issue of your heritage – I do see it as mine. It is a birth right, and my father gave it to me, my grandfathers gave it to me. And I’d like to pass it on to my children too. It’s pretty simple really.
    Right now, there is a lot of lying deceit with the issue of guns. A lot of people are a bit ticked off about that, to be sure. But maybe the issue is not that American Christians love guns – we consider the right to self defense as God given, and the current media trend against guns to be an encroachment. There are quite a few in our country who want all citizens to be disarmed. And for good reason, the incremental steps to that end are resisted.

    I think God has given you a voice and a platform in speaking to issues of revival. I welcome that. I don’t think that platform includes political commentary or advise. And while I do hear you out, I take that with a huge grain of salt. No bitterness, and I intend no offense. I just don’t think you understand as well as you think you do.

    Blessings.

  7. Dangerous Times -
    Please explain ’2 horns like a lamb’ as in False Prophet?

  8. Ejimanze Jan 21st 2013

    The kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ! And the Kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom shall be to the saints of the Most High and they shall reign forever and ever. This thing is by the decree of the Watchers and by the word of the holy ones!
    This is the prophetic trajectory of the kingdoms of this world. This is why it is not wise building on the shifting sand of this present world order, or to allow the cares of this world to rob us of inheriting the everlasting kingdom of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

    America embroiled in a civil war? That is a very real probability that I have been tracking in the Spirit for a while. One thing I know though is that while Jehovah is a Man of war, God in this dispensation is not in the natural sword war business. ‘Thy (God’s) will be done in the earth as it is done in heaven’ has nothing to do with senseless wars where several hundred thousands of souls are needlessly slaughtered. Satan and his principalities and powers are the guy driving wars, and they start them in the heart of men, and from thence on to national and international stages. And he gets us to believe and blame God, calling any nasty event, ‘an act of God.’ I reject that, in Jesus’ name!

    But the Sons of God have been given full authority to rule and reign in this life. This is the time to exercise that authority and for they that be wise and mature in Christ in America to stand up and say NO to any and every machination and plan of the Evil one to destroy their country. Yes, God judges, and America and the anti-Christ beast nations of Europe are being and shall be severely judged, but look at how He judged the Soviet Union. He raised up a ‘Saviour’, Gorbachev, who did not fight what God was doing and just allowed the Union to break up without bloodshed, and for bibles to be brought into the former godless empire.
    Who knows whether that’s the role that Pres. Obama is called to play?
    Conclusion: Yes, high wire politics at the highest realm of the occult indicate war for the USA. But the Sons of God have the final say, for no war shall henceforth be fought on planet earth without the say-so of the saints.

    Onwards Christian soldiers…!

  9. I’m not really familiar about any visions or dreams people have had but I am on Facebook and I have talked with people and I can see clearly that we are headed for a civil war over this gun control legislation. Even my own family members are into this. I’m really shocked about how the gospel message and saving the lost is abandoned and we as Christians are more concerned with running out and buying guns. Some are even placing them in waterproof boxes and burying them in secret places. It bothers me that we are so fearful and afraid. This is not the fruit of the spirit at all. I think I’m ready to join the Amish. I get more emails from pastors even about politics than about the Lord. Hate is strong and love for souls has just about died out.

  10. Im a christian.I love Jesus Christ. and he loves me.(I believe)
    In the body of christ,a separation,has taken place.
    between sheep and goats.and it is disgusting.the church as a whole has failed this nation.when we stopped praying one nation under GOD,in our schools.the church as a whole failed our great country..roe vs wade. brought about legalized abortion.(church! you voted the lawmakers into office,that cast the vote to legalize abortion.) The Church of the United States of America,
    has failed its people..

  11. marjane Jan 21st 2013

    my husband is a messianic jew. by Gods grace his parents didn’t get led into the cattle cars. at what point do we say NO….I AM NOT GOING?

  12. Sharon Jan 21st 2013

    A big Amen on Joshua Harris post. He spoke my thoughts better than I
    could.
    We must stand strong in our faith, and speaking out against the wrong in our country is a God given right.

  13. There are things that The Lord taught me through Cyclone Tracy 1974. Tracy triggered a profound difference in my walk with Him.
    ! We need not know what tomorrow may bring,
    2 sometimes it may be best we do not know!
    3 Our Lord is able to dispel ALL FEAR in any situation.
    4 what was a FAITH BUILDING experience for my family and others on that night was a night of fear and terror for thousands of others who survived the 6 hour battering.of over 200 kph winds..
    There was a miracle that night that effected saved and unsaved alike, – I am amazed that only 65 deaths occurred !

    http://www.vk2ce.com/darwin/parer_road.jpg

    In this shot debris had been shifted from the road – at dawn roads were drivable slowly only with extreme care.

    http://tools.ntnews.com.au/photo-gallery/photo_gallery_popup_preview.php?category_id=611&offset=12
    - THANK YOU America! – USAF guys note the air safety precautions inside the C-141 !

    One of the great promises Jesus made for “our?’ planet is “For the sake of the elect those days will be shortened – otherwise no flesh will remain alive” Math 24: 22
    I believe These days are as Jesus said” the beginning of sorrows” this can be better said as “All these are the beginning of birth pains.” (New American Standard Bible (©1995) and others )
    When He shortens these days (of labour -which will intensify in frequency and strength, as any mother knows) He brings on the birth, prematurely or as he said the “mother” would not survive (no flesh would be left alive) a new a new age will be born. Righteousness will prevail.Christ will rule in the Kingdoms of men – republican and democrat will be irrelevant (are they not now?)
    Heaven and earth will rejoice together, just as the pain ends for the mother at the birth of her child and pain gives way to great joy! She endures because she is designed by God to do so.
    So must we also endure – right to the end, for these current birth pains are necessary for the completion of His plan for us.
    For the born again who walk in the Spirit there is nothing to fear, fear has torment. But perfect love casts out all fear.
    Pr Michael

  14. Here is my view of the matter. I believe I am correct, but each person should pray about the matter for themselves and know what the Spirit wants them to know.

    I didn’t respond to gun article though I considered it. Frankly, I think Andrew’s opinion of the gun issue in the US is naive and ignorant. I am not an America worshiper. America is a wicked nation and has been through the years. America deserves judgment and it will be judged. The government is almost completely corrupt and wicked. The wars it wages are wicked and unjust. The rule of law has been done away with. The Constitution is supposed to be the law of the land, yet the so-called president does not even meet the Constitutional requirements to be president. The second amendment of the Constitution affirms the natural right of the people to keep and bear arms, not for hunting, but to resist tyranical government. If for no other reason, Americans should keep their arms based on that alone. Historically, the worst dictators/mass murderers have disarmed the people before killing literally millions who were unable to resist.

    Many Christians do not have eyes to see what is really going on and where we are in regard to the events foretold in the Bible. It is amazing to me to see that many unbelievers have a better understanding of current events than many Christians. The events at Sandy Hook did not play out the way they are being portrayed in the state controlled media. Yet it is being used as launch board to try to disarm the US population. Why?

    So many Christians are so convinced that they know what the Bible says about things, but in reality what they believe is what they have been told the Bible says instead of studying it for themselves. The Bible does not teach a 7 year tribulation. The modern state of Israel does not meet the discription in the Bible regarding the restoration of Israel. Babylon in Revelation is a city that has a deep water port and is a literal, physical place. The saints will be in a real, physical war with the beast and will be defeated until God rules in our favor.

    The world is run by satanists who do abominable things to people. America is ruled by satanists who want to disarm the people so that they are able to do evil without being opposed.

    The visions that were posted were a mix of rubbish and truth. The only one that has the ring of truth is the one that called out America as Babylon. America is Babylon and ruler will rise against ruler within Bablylon just a Jerimiah the prophet has foretold. Civil war is coming to America and soon. Sometime thereafter it will be destroyed by a federation of ten kings who have given their allegience to the beast as John has foretold in Revelation. Over and over again the Bible warns to flee Babylon. You better know what Babylon is.

    Dimitru Dudaman was a false prophet. How many times do so-called prophets have to get things wrong before Christians get it?

    I don’t intend to argue with anyone on this. Frankly, I have to force myself to weigh in on stuff like this because I am just to disgusted and cynical regarding the obstenate blindness of Christians and I don’t feel like wasting my time. The breakup of the US is coming and with it civil war and likely foreign troops. Even though i don’t feel like writing, I guess I am tired and am just throwing things out there for anyone with ears to hear. I need to go to bed.

  15. Is the prophecy given by Kenny Atnip, given in 2010, authentic? Or did they tell their kids a lot about a possibly coming civil war, befor they had their dreams etc…?

  16. Interesting. More “dreams visions” of impending doom for the usa. Now I am not saying these are false nor do I say they are correct.
    But these are a different view that some others are having such as Kim Clement who says that the US is “this year” entering into 7 years of plenty.
    Whom to believe???
    Personally? I tend towards the former tho I am hedging my bets (in the stock market by investing in gold/silver
    Cheers
    Brian

  17. Thanks to Andrew for this message and for including these “prophesies.” Although I’m skeptical about much of the prophetic/dream material, particularly that God would call America “Babylon,” I’m sure we’re in for a great judgment. That God would single out the USA as Babylon when wholly antichrist regimes exist in Europe,
    China, North Korea, and the Islamic world, seems unlikely to me. I also doubt that armed resistance here will be either widespread or effective enough to be called a civil war. But the days of America’s greatness–both her bullying AND her benevolence– is near an end I suspect. My heart is with entirely the patriots and entirely against tyrannical government. I confess that I despise the globalist sociopaths who have controlled US government policy and US culture for several decades. My sympathies are with those who’re willing to resist fiercely and violently their inevitable grab for absolute control. But I know that for a Christian to resist government with violence is entirely wrong. We don’t have to appeal to the dubious parallel with Judah, Jeremiah and Babylon to know that armed resistance to government oppression is NO OPTION for Christians. Neither Jesus, nor the Apostles, nor the early Church took up arms against Nero, but “joyfully accepted the plundering of their property” (Heb. 10:34); and, following their Master, were led like silent sheep to the slaughter. To suffer for Christ as a Christian is one of the highest honors possible. The Second Amendment was for citizens to protect themselves against overreaching government; it was not for us who have a better and abiding possession.

  18. Good morning! The Lord bless you all!

    I think civil war in the USA is a very real possibility.In fact, in some ways, the conditions are perfect for a civil war. The nation is polarized and angry. The mass media is no longer a watchdog against corruption but is now a propaganda arm. Truth is in the dust. Deceit has descended on us.

    The immediate question here is should a Christian resist tyrrany? Boiled down to its simplest terms that is the question. I want to address this calmly in a quiet and logical way.

    Government is established by God for the protection and blessing of those who do good and a deterrent and punisher of those who do evil. This is plainly stated in Romans 13. I want to pose a few questions.

    1. What happens when a government no longer punishes wrongdoing but begins to persecute those who are doing good?

    2. Are Christians supposed to just go along with everything a government says and decrees….even if such things oppose the principles we believe in?

    3. Are Christians ever to disobey a government?

    What are the examples in the Scriptures?

    The Pharaoh in ancient Egypt decreed that all baby boys were to be killed. Moses’s mother did not fear the wrath of the king but preserved her son by hiding him in the bullrushes in a basket. She disobeyed the orders of a government.

    In Babylon, the three Hebrew youths refused to bow to an image of the king. They disobeyed a direct order from the king. And they were committed to the flames…..escaping unscathed through God’s great mercy.

    In Babylon, the people had been told not to pray. Daniel disobeyed this order and prayed every day. His act led to his being thrown to the lions. He escaped through God’s great mercy.

    In the accounts of the Lord’s cricifixion, Jesus was told by the ruler that the ruler had power to kill Him. Jesus said that the ruler had no power but what he was given by God.

    In Acts, the apostles were told to never again speak the name of Jesus. They immediately said that this was impossible and that God must be obeyed rather than men. Next time we see them, they are publicly declaring the name of Jesus. They disobeyed a direct order from the government.

    Here’s what I learn from this. Government is not absolute but limited. It has limits set upon it by God. When a government usurps the place of God, it must be disobeyed. As Christians, we cannot and should not allow the government to dictate our principles or our way of life. We must obey God at all times. If this means disobedience to government, so be it.

    I want to address something that no one has addressed in this question or the gun question earlier.

    We know that a system will develop (is developing) called “the beast” in Revelation. It is an all-powerful entity that controls men and every aspect of life. It cannot be resisted because no one can make war with it. It demands total obedience even to marking every person as a sign of allegiance and worship. It is a global system that controls all both small and great. Without this mark of complete allegiance, a person cannot buy or sell and, if caught without the mark, will be killed.

    Now my question is this: Is this system something that believers should resist? This is a system that competely displaces God in a person’s life and interjects itself as god. ( My observation is that all governments eventually interject themselves between a person and God. It’s the nature of the beast (pun intended)).

    Now according to the prophecy in Revelation, Babylon (the woman) rides this beast. If USA is Babylon, then she is getting her power from this global totalitarian system that is developing. Eventually, this beast will throw the woman off and kill her.

    In summation, government within its proper sphere must be obeyed. If we are told to go 55mph on the highway, we go 55 mph on the highway. If we are told to stop at stop signs, we stop at stop signs. If we are told we have to allow our children to be taught that homosexuality is good, we refuse. If we are told to pay for abortions, we refuse. Our children do not belong to the state but to God.

    The beginning of the end is near. The president is being portrayed more and more often as a messianic figure. This is blaspemy and we cannot sit by quietly and allow this to happen. The latest issue of Newsweek says that the 2nd inauguration of Mr Obama is the second coming. Blasphemy. Mr Obama has been portrayed in paintings as crucified and crowned with thorns. There is an evil force behind all of this and we as believers in the Lord Jesus should discern this. He has been called by a comedian “our lord and saviour Barack Hussein Obama.” This is the spirit of antichrist. (I am not calling Mr Obama the antichrist.)

    We need to wake up quickly. Arise you that sleep and rise from the dead and Christ will give you light.

  19. matthew Jan 21st 2013

    People may need to calm down with some of the wilder predictions here: if a “civil war” doesn’t come to pass will people come back on the internet and admit they prophesied falsely? I understand that a lot of Americans have a government that they don’t like and agree with at present. Well, in a democracy that happens, but in four short years that may well change, and it may be social liberals and those on the left who are deeply unhappy.

    Can I make one fairly obvious observation? The USA has immensely powerful armed forces: anyone foolish enough to joined some type of armed rebellion against the US state would have a fairly short life expectancy, in the highly unlikely event that such a rebellion occurred.

    The internet is full of fairly wild prophecies from lots of people we know little about, with very little accountability if they turn out to be rhubarb, as many of them already have. I suggest testing these out carefully, as the bible tells us to do, especially when people are placing great significance on dramatic bad dreams from children as young as three. People tend to grow in accuracy in excercising spiritual gifts. Are we to take this three year old to be born again, spirit filled and an accurate prophet? If so, why?

  20. DonaldN Jan 21st 2013

    If this nation is about to be divided then this produces an opportunity to make a stand for the Gospel. Many people will be scared and wonder what will happen. This is a prime time to have our feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel. The only peace to promote at this unsettling time is the peace that only God can give.
    We must prepare ourselves to preach Jesus now more than ever.

  21. Christine Jan 21st 2013

    When words cease to mean, we are in trouble. True Christians have fought for the authority of the Word of God because they believe the words mean something. Here in America, our Constitution has given authority to our government, because the words mean something. This grievance is not over guns, but over the loss of meaning. The judgment is coming because the church has failed to uphold the authority of the Word of God. America is politically weakened and in death throes because she has failed to respect the authority of her Constitution.

    I think the prescription is just the opposite of what you propose. We need to stand for the Word, stand for our covenants and constitutional guarantees and, in a democracy, fight for our rights with conviction.

    As we all realize with hindsight, the German church failed God through silence in the 1930′s. Had she spoken up and resisted, there might be millions of Jews alive today who instead perished in the ovens. Silence and complicity in the face of evil bring God’s judgment.

    I have been receiving your emails for some time now, but I am not sure I want to anymore! What you are proposing is dangerous and unscriptural. I can see no place in scripture where people were lauded for cooperating with evil. Remember that the Hebrew midwives, who defied Pharaoh’s instruction to kill the male babies, were blessed by God because they disobeyed?

    I will continue supporting organizations that resist government policy which is evil and I will exercise my constitutional rights to speak the truth!

  22. Dear, Dear Brian,

    My poor, dear brother. How many false prediction does Kim Clement have to put out before you recognize that he is a false prophet? Are you still making decisions based on Clement’s babbling? I’m no prophet or sage, but I had only to listen to Kim Clement and Todd Bentley for five minutes to know that these deceivers were not from God. “Whom to believe???” you ask. Well almost anyone rather than Kim Clement.

  23. Jason F Jan 21st 2013

    I wonder, though, does God pour out judgement like this? I actually have some faith in that. We can’t be judged in heaven because there it will be ” no more tears ” .
    I haven’t studied how God judges in the Age of the New Covenant.

  24. Perhaps this is a good time to help our brothers and sisters give up on the false hope of seeing the Garden of Eden on this continent. The United States of America is not going to become “The Promised Land.” My hope and prayer is that the disillusionments of recent weeks will turn into opportunities for believers to get this right, and for pseudo-Christians to become the real deal—parts of a new creation, a people in whom Jesus lives. He clarified the difference between Christian religion and Christian life when, of Himself He spoke:

    “He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you . . . at that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.” – John 14:17-20

    The distinctive: Christ actually abides in His own (a new creation) by His Spirit!

    Present-day pressures should help casual advocates of Christianity to receive Jesus as Lord, and learn to rely on Him. They should also help truly born again people to turn fully to Him and come to know Him more fully as Lord of all, trustworthy, and with a plan and purpose for our lives. “The American Dream” is not from heaven! We have a wonderful opportunity to abandon that religious ship now, to realize that we are pilgrims, citizens of another kingdom, and ambassadors sent here to fully represent our Father.

    Let me insert a word of blessing upon the preppers. Ask for wisdom to keep your priorities in right order. Would it not be a tragic mistake to diligently store dried beans but fail to faithfully and aggressively develop a right understanding of how carriers of God’s life are to prepare and proceed in the face of persecution?
    All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and imposters will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of . . . – 2 Timothy 3:12-14

    My particular role in present-day preparations is strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations (pressures) enter the kingdom of God.” – Acts 14:22

    I wonder if we may be at a most opportune time to help American Christians and those who think they are Christians, to a more realistic and holistic biblical world view. If they are not weaned away from their confused mixing of church and state they will continue to be disillusioned in greater and greater proportions, and will remain ill-prepared for kingdom duty.

    There are two specific clarifications needed to rightly discern the history of the United States.

    1. Few if any of the framers and signers were new creation people.

    Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid “theistic rationalism.” – Wikipedia, “Founding Fathers of the United States”

    They did their best to fashion a construct that upheld righteousness, justice, morality, honesty, integrity, etc. While these are honorable traits, they alone do not make a person a Christian, nor do they make the USA a Christian nation.

    2. Two spirits behind the origin of this nation were rebellion and independence. These two spirits prevail today and should be evident to any discerning believer. They are at the root of both our cultural and political issues. Opposing forces often pray to the same God.

    While living in a suburb of Washington D. C. in the early 1970s, I had many opportunities to visit the Lincoln Memorial along with other meaningful monuments. Engraved in stone on one wall is Abraham Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address. One passage really stood out to me then. I have reflected back upon it many times since, including this past week:

    “Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces; but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered—that of neither has been answered fully.”

    So long as people are clinging to this life I cannot guarantee that they will be safe with Jesus. There are several examples of people of faith in Hebrews 11 who lost their lives. Rev. 12 provides three distinctives of the overcomer: the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death. – Revelation 12:11

    We should pray first to engage God in prayer for the relational aspects of Fatherhood and sonship—the joy of the new creation. Then we should find out what He is doing, what is His will in our situation. We are not to pray to convince God of our will. We are to pray to become convicted and consecrated to God’s will.

    “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup from Me; nevertheless, not My will, but Yours be done.” Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. – Luke 22:42-43

    “Come here. I’ll show you the Bride, the Wife of the Lamb.” He took me away in the Spirit to an enormous, high mountain and showed me Holy Jerusalem descending out of Heaven from God, resplendent in the bright glory of God. – Revelation 2:19-12 TM

    You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, redeemed to God by Jesus’ blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, bearing the fruits of the kingdom. – 1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 5:9; Matthew 21:43

    Look! I’m setting a stone in Zion, a cornerstone in the place of honor. Whoever trusts in this stone as a foundation will never have cause to regret it. – 1 Peter 2:6 TM

  25. IS THIS THE GENERATION?
    By David Wilkerson

    The whole world is frightened, perplexed and confused. Even the saintliest Christian must be wondering about all the prophetic events rapidly unfolding. I know that believers all over the world are asking themselves a question that I, too, am pondering: Are we in the last decade of human history? I do not know, but one thing is sure: We have seen an acceleration of world events. Suddenly, without warning, the Iron Curtain fell. Almost overnight, Eastern Europe was free. Seemingly in a flash, the Soviet Empire—once threatening the United States—was brought to the brink of disintegration and utter turmoil.

    Could it be that in the same sudden manner, the Antichrist world leader will be revealed? Could it also be that God has come to the end of His patience with the sins of North America, as happened with Sodom and Gomorrah?

    Frightening bankruptcies in our savings and loan organizations, mounting national debt, diseases and nationwide plagues—are these all signs that our country is entering the corridor of a divine curse as outlined in Deuteronomy 28? Read what God does to the nations that sin against the light. You can see it happening right now!

    Are we already in the early stages of the biggest depression in our history? The Great Depression of the 1930s has been regarded as the worst ever, but many economists believe we are on the brink of a depression that will make our worst look tame by comparison.

    Is God even now beginning to cut off our supply of bread? Is He bringing ruin upon us, as He did upon Jerusalem and Judah because of their sins? In Isaiah

    3:1-6, you will find that God does cut off bread and massive unemployment results. When judgment fell in Zion, “there was no hire for man, nor any hire for beast” (Zachariah 8:10). Will there be massive unemployment as God judges America’s sins?

    There is a sense of danger in the air; every situation seems volatile. There is a feeling that the world is on a course from which there is no turning back.
    There is talk of wars, race wars, holy wars. Israel is feverishly preparing for war as never before, gearing up for a final conflict.

    Is this the day that Jesus predicted when men’s hearts will fail from
    overwhelming fear as they behold the frightening things happening on the earth? Could it be we really are the generation that will behold the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ? Have we come to such a point in human history that it can now be
    said, “This generation shall not pass away till all these things come to pass”?
    Will it indeed happen in our time?

  26. smokey Jan 21st 2013

    To protect ourselves and each other. Its deception to believe that if we go along with any type of oppression that we will be protected and do well. There is no biblical basis for that.

    Most Americans feel that if we are attacked by anyone, we have to duty to defend our families.

    The other extreme is to attack others, which is not at all what I would do. Never.

  27. DonaldN Jan 21st 2013

    I truly do not desire to generate any more strife with this question, but it is strong on my heart at this time.

    If the USA is to be divided and the individual States to become separate sovereign nations, then should Christians get involved in the government of these States at the beginning in order to make them Christian friendly nations that will promote the Gospel, or should we just sit by and let the unsaved have the government to rule over us?

  28. Very interesting question DonaldN! Very thought provoking indeed! Thank you!

  29. Ejimanze Jan 21st 2013

    @ Chad: …Even though i don’t feel like writing, I guess I am tired and am just throwing things out there for anyone with ears to hear. I need to go to bed.’

    Wrong attitude, Chad, my brother. Be careful, you are speaking and writing to Blood bought and Word washed men and brethren. They may not live up to your expectation but He who died for them ain’t gonna give up on them. Do you know that I am reading you from Abuja, Nigeria? And your words, written and spoken with faith and love could lift and make a difference in my life, 1000s of miles away! Don’t be discouraged, Man! The war was won at Calvary. Trust Jesus word: Upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it! All that the Father has given me, shall come to me, Jesus said; and I will save them. And none can take them from the Father’s hand!

    We know in part and prophesy in part. So as we plumb the mind of the Spirit in these posts that our precious Brother Andrew throws out, let none think himself God, and that he’s got it, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth all neatly wrapped up in his puny brain. Not possible, for it takes the whole of us His Body to express Him.

  30. Bro. I am 83 soon 84 and I too am hearing the real possibilty of a Civil War . I too have had people come against me but living for God since Dec. 1959 I know when the Spirit of God speaks . I sent your message to a man and he informed me that God went to war many times . I visited his site after he said what are we to do just sit and wait for them to come and get us ??? When I visited his site he was one of those who atre talking Civil War . Your messages COMFORM what the Lord is telling me . We do not fight flesh and blood under the Covenant of Grace , Jesus Christ . We must remember Jeremiah and other Prophets was not WELCOMED WITH GODS TRUTH but it came to pass . Thank you Bro. only a few will hear and tell.

  31. No one is suggesting that Christians and other men of good will be silent about the abuses of government..Any good citizen, Christian or not, may raise the alarm when he sees the encroachments of government on freedom.
    But he must meekly take the consequences of his choice. Early Christians refused to sacrifice to Caesar and were persecuted for their refusal. I thought this discussion was about violent, armed resistance. Unlike most people I don’t consider Bonhoeffer a martyr. He died for his part in the plot to assassinate Hitler, not (in my opinion) as a martyr for Christ. Whether his choice was the correct one others must decide. But I know Paul wasn’t beheaded for plotting to overthrow Nero. Let’s stick to the point. It’s right for a good citizen to speak out about the abuses of government; it is not right for a Christian to take up arms against the government.

  32. I am careful in regard to visions of those I do not know. But that’s me.
    ***********
    If this nation is under judgment then no manner of seeking to restore the constitution will succeed. Ask yourself why the Apostles didn’t fight to save Jerusalem from the Romans? (It was established not by constitution but by the very Word of God.) It’s because they knew the city was under the judgment of God. They obeyed Christ’s Word to flee when they saw the Romans approaching. And they all did. Josephus tells us that not one Christian was lost in the Roman siege in 70 AD.

    If America is under judgment then I believe the end has come. That is the issue for me. Once a Christian comes under the conviction that this nation has gone too far and crossed a line and that the ‘handwriting is on the wall’, then they will cease to restore it. Once his nation permitted homosexual marriage it crossed a line. God is now removing His restraint and protection and He is allowing evil to have its ‘little hour’. (Remember Jesus did the same. He told those coming to arrest Him: “This is your hour and the power of darkness.” I believe what happened to the HEAD will happen to the BODY.)

    I believe the downfall of America is here. Just one suitcase nuke. Just one biological wmd release. Just a collapse of the dollar should do it. God is now at the beginning of shaking all that can be shaken, Hebrews 12:22ff. Christians should now be “assembling themselves together and even the more so as they see the Day approaching.”

    Yes I own guns. I’m a Viet Nam Vet, but first and foremost my citizenship is in Heaven. I believe we are about to witness the collapse of the financial system and a totalitarian system arise. Soon, there will be no time to argue and debate gun laws. Martial law will trump the second amendment.

    Darkness is coming and deep darkness the peoples. The wise are making sure they have extra oil. It was in the press of the oil, Gethsemane, where Jesus got the oil to take Him through His midnight hour. The body of Christ is about to have its Gethsemane in order to have the strength, peace and grace to have a martyr’s witness. It’s one of the reasons I call into the prayerline on Friday nights. It is there, in fervent intercession where we obtain the oil we will need for these evil days and the tribulation that lies ahead for America. The wise ones are making sure they have the oil necessary so they can rejoice when they hear the cry, “Behold the Bridgroom is coming.” Maranatha

  33. Bill at Citizens in Christ Jan 21st 2013

    I think there is wisdom in these visions and we need to take HEED and EVERMORE DILIGENTLY PRAY and EXHORT for REPENTANCE in America! Thx 4 posting this!

  34. Amen and bravo for Don Atkin’s comments. Whether my end comes by natural death, rapture, or by martyrdom, the right preparation is the same–a holy life.

  35. goodwordtoday Jan 21st 2013

    Does anybody wonder after reading all these comments why Christianity is in deep trouble in America–and probably the world over? Where is the unity of the early church? It no longer exists and probably only one thing will pull us together and that is extreme persecution. Everyone goes each to his own way.

    As far as prophecies go, test the prophets – if their prophecies don’t come true, you don’t have to fear them. Look at their track record. God’s prophets in the Bible were 100% accurate. If a prophet isn’t 100% accurate, how can you trust anything they say?

    And just because a 3-year old wakes up from a dream screaming, “War is coming,” doesn’t mean that it is. He might have seen the evening news a couple of days before for all we know. I wouldn’t pin my future on that, although the parents should keep an eye on the kid. Who knows – maybe he is a prophet.

    Look, Andrew – Can you just stop stirring up the pot over America for a while? Like I asked before – can you turn your gaze elsewhere, just for a season – please?

    Lots of things get the people riled up in this country and no military action against the government would last a heartbeat unless the nation’s infrastructure of commerce, utilities, and food production was somehow interrupted by a catastrophic event. Then you might see militias taking up arms and plan guerrilla attacks. And the likeliest scenario of that would be looting and hurting one’s neighbors, not any tyrannical government. This isn’t a tv show. Seriously, have you seen the U.S. military and its capabilities? If the government were to attack the people here, even with millions upon millions of guns the uprising would be crushed. I think most people, even the wacky ones, are aware of that fact.

    However, there is already a civil war that is taking place in America and that is a civil war of ideology. Which one is going to win? That is a fight we can enter and must because God tells us that we must. We are to drag people back from eternal flames of damnation.

    The Bible is our guidebook on what’s right and wrong and we need to declare that loud and clear. We need to teach our children that.

    How many of you who blog here have sent your children to public school to be trained in unbiblical philosophies, taught revisionist history that takes God out of the equation, taught that science is the new god, trained to think they have no control over their own bodies, and brainwashed into thinking that same-sex perversions are just an alternate but valid lifestyle?

    How many or you allow your children to play point of view killing video games? How many of you go to movies with killing and sex, blaspheming, horrible vulgar language…and allow your children to do the same? Or how many think that because Ellen Degeneres is a nice person, funny, kind and giving to so many people that it’s okay that she promotes homosexuality openly and without any opposition on a major network DAILY. How many allow the culture to shape them, NO MATTER WHAT THE COUNTRY, and then spout platitudes about the Bible and Jesus?

    It’s a hard road staying true to what Christ wants each person to do. And it’s harder in a materialistic society. It takes a lot of fortitude to change habits and cultural shaping.

    Are you aware that the brain creates patterns like streams of water that form and over time get deeper and deeper? Why do you think our nation’s young people are going to hell in a handbasket? It’s because we have allowed them to be drawn into the fantasy world of television, computers, virtual reality, violence, and sexual perversions. Most people throw their kids in front of a tv to get some quiet time to themselves. They deceive themselves when they say – we don’t watch tv, we only watch movies and dvds. I’m sorry but just because it’s not broadcast doesn’t mean you aren’t training your child to watch a screen. That’s what the Bible means when it says train a child in the way that he should and when he is grown he will not depart from it.

    THE SECRET TO WINNING THE WAR OF IDEOLOGY IS TO TRAIN OUR CHILDREN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN BIBLICAL IDEOLOGY – WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG. TRUTH ACCORDING TO GOD, NOT ACCORDING TO MAN. TRAIN THEM UNTIL THE PATHWAYS ARE ESTABLISHED AND THEY WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT.

    And don’t confuse them by letting them go to public school. I don’t care what you have to do – home school, video school, private Christian school, Christian tutor, but don’t put your children in public school.

    Don’t let them sit for hours on end in front of a computer. Make them go outside and play.

    Don’t let them play paintball — aaaah! What’s wrong with paintball you say? Well, that is how the military trains to SHOOT PEOPLE. Why do you want your kids to be trained in how to shoot people? I thought you didn’t think Christians should go to war. You say, it’s all good, clean fun. That’s a rationalization and remember what I said about the BRAIN. By allowing your kids to play paintball or point of view shooting games, you are training them, creating pathways in their brains to disdain life, think of people as targets, and to aim to kill. Is that what you want? What do you expect if a child who is unbalanced emotionally gets hold of a gun and confuses reality with fantasy??? Is anybody awake in America?

  36. Camalunghi Jan 21st 2013

    It does seem a polarisation is taking place in the US and we all wonder where this will end?

    But it helps to see the bigger picture: We are living in times quite unlike any other….and what should concern everyone is how fast evil is generally gaining ground…..and how weak and soft the western church is.

    Never before do we see an increase in wickedness at such a pace – the internet etc technology is changing everything and unfortunatly its being used to corrupt the whole world. What kind of future do our children have?

    Judgement is definitly on its way – The question is when and how.

  37. Ejimanze Jan 21st 2013

    Amen, Don Atkin!
    DonaldN – Yours indeed is a very thought provoking question. What to do?
    My take is that as – As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. As in earthly kingdoms, there are many roles and responsibilities in the Kingdom of God. I am skilled in spiritual warfare and by the name of Jesus I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall. And those who came against me or against my country one way, find themselves fleeing 7 ways before the Lord and His Army. But although many are called, few are chosen into this Gideon, End-time heavenly SEAL force.

    So if one is not adept at fighting in and being led by the spirit? Well, go ahead and seek, seek and seek the Lord until you find Him and know His mind on a matter. Whatever He tells you to do, do it!

    The other option is to just go ahead and do what you can in the flesh. But know that the days of the flesh are numbered; it’s Mene, mene tekel upharsin on the Flesh/Babylonian.

  38. harvestistipe Jan 21st 2013

    Thank You for posting this Joyce all i can say is – YES – this is the end of days generation,, some saints lamps shall be full some will be left depleated and in need of oil. It is the Holy Spirit of God who seals us for redemption, it is truely time to be a ready vessel used of the Lord in these end of days, his true witnesses whom shall be throughout the whole earth with the testimony ofJjesus Christ.

    If the world ever needed his witnesses it is now! as the scriptures say mans hearts will fail them, time for the true church to rise up, and seek those whom are lost there is so much darkness so much deception,around us all right now, keep your eyes on Jesus.

    Time for us to be on our knees seeking his will seeking the leading of the Holy Spirit.

    Also Jesus said in the end of days three times – “DO NOT BE DECEIVED” WE ARE TOLD THESE WOULD BE THE GREATEST TIMES OF DECEPTION THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN by Jesus himself.

    Only in his perfect will and our being joined to Christ Jesus will we stand strong and unshakable for it is he whom is our rock in him there is no fear for the coming days of darkness coming upon us.We can only be wise in his wisdom and direction.

    Only in his will being joined to Christ Jesus will we be able to overcome anything that may come at us, able to command the darkness to flee able to stand in persecution and say as Paul said his grace is sufficiant and as his disciples can walk in the power and assurance they had to turn this world upside down.

    Jesus and the disciples knew when to stay and when to leave, when to dust the dist off their feet and move on
    This is so important for us to understand and seek him on..

    If we are to just lay down, and allow all evil to overtake us, then we may just very well be of little use for the gospel of Jesus Christ, if we walk in the flesh without being led of the Holy Spirit, we to will be of little use for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    If we are seeking the Lords counsel he will lead us by the Spirit as to what we should do, in each situation this is when we will be that true light in a world gone wrong this is when we will be his greatest witness this is when we will overcome the darkness that surrounds us. This is when we will speak in power and be a ready vessel this is when we will know and trust fully in our Lord in the same spirit Daniel did in the lions den, when shadrack, meshack and abendago steped in the fire without being harmed only to have Jesus there to protect them. This is when we his true witnesses can march around Jerico and see the walls fall down.

    It is this power we will walk in against the enemies of our souls, wheather we have the slingshot and perfect stone to down the giant whom wants to kill us or rather we speak in the power of the Holy Spirit and in the name of Jesus commanding our enemy to drop his weapon in the name of and power of Jesus, no weapon shall harm us – or wheather we have come to our end as Stephen, seeing the Lord before us as we face our murders in the same spirit of Christ and Steven asking God to forgive them.

    Only being joined to Christ on a daily basis seeking him daily will we be in his perfict will when trouble comes, and in his peace whatever our lot.

    OUR TRUST IS SOLELY IN HIM, HE IS OUT SHIELD OUR REDEMER.

    SEEK HIM KNOW HIM PERSONALLY, he will never leave nor forsake those whom are truely his he is truely our first love our best friend in times of trouble. We must begin to walk in his counsel in obedience.

    David sought the Lord, David KNEW HIS LORD so much so, so closely was his relationship with the Lord, he wrote Psalm 91, yes prepare for the days ahead spiritually and physically but always with Chist in mind and with a mind set on eternal vision. seek the Lord ask the Lord, he said we have not because we ask not always in a heart of worship and thankfulness..
    God bless my brothers and sisters..

  39. Again, we must take our lesson from the disciples of our Messiah by living and dying for His Name.
    As we have been set free from captivity and liberated by Yahsuah’s Blood, there is nothing man can do to our bodies to kill our souls (if we remain obediant to His Word).
    The choice is coming: depend on the arms of man or take refuge in the Everlasting Arms of Yahweh’s upholding Right Hand.

  40. DonaldN Jan 21st 2013

    goodwordtoday,
    I agree totally, but I feel hopelessness in this area.
    The ideology battle you desire to win is not even being won in the church, let alone in society. The apostasy of the church is great. We cannot expect the world to see our point when the church won’t even live Godly.
    The remnant is all that is left. Just as in OT Israel, all went into captivity, the remnant included.
    What is left to do?
    Live Godly in whatever state we are in.
    Win those around us to Christ.
    We can win one on one, we will not win on a national level.

  41. Nellie Jan 21st 2013

    To put things in perspective, we have a government that says it will uphold the Constitution but is now on its way to only protect itself. Our President has used means to invade our privacy without our consent, in which we are now monitored on the internet, our free speech of protesting has now been removed, our Second Amendment will again be tested in the near future.
    I am saddened for our country. We have been fed the prosperity message in our churches and seeking self first while the last fingerprints are removed from its foundation. The church has promised wealth and protection from prophets who also have itching ears. We also have a government that has shoveled debt upon the next two generations that it refuses to change.
    America has given its money and weapons to those who hate God’s children, but the church won’t ask for repentance and forgiveness for allowing all this to happen. Finally, believing that the church will not be judged according to America’s sin is the biggest excuse we have chosen to ignore.
    At times, I keep having flashbacks of a vision of many houses empty, places that were filled with families just months before. Don’t get me wrong, I believe the gospel needs to be preached, but when the church refuses to change its worship from self to Him, we are showing we are no better than the world.

    Too bad there isn’t enough Christians to get together to seek repentance for the nation. God has given me Joel 3:9 and Jeremiah 6:16 for a reason…now I know why.

  42. AmericanChristian Jan 21st 2013

    Phyllis James, once again I see that many do not understand the heart behind taking up arms. You comment about trusting in guns or trusting in God.
    Just as OT Israel was commanded to take up arms and go out to battle against their enemy, but to trust in God for the outcome of the battle, that is my position also. I do not trust in my gun to save me. I trust in God.
    But at times God desires us to make a stand.

  43. DonaldN Jan 21st 2013

    The object of faith is no longer Christ, but our self-esteem;
    The goal of faith is no longer holiness, but our happiness;
    The source of faith is no longer the scriptures, but our experiences!

  44. crossjordan7 Jan 21st 2013

    I know Kenny Atnip and his family personally. They have been to Mexico and have served on this most difficult mission field with me. Brother Kenny has been into the Tarahumara mountians with me. If Kenny says God has told him something, i take that very serious. He is a man of God without doubt. The same goes for Maryann his daughter. If Maryann says she has heard from God, i will listen. Jeremiah is very young, but of the same stripe as the rest of this godly family, and if Jeremiah says something about hearing from God, i also will pay attention. I would urge everyone to take what Kenny is saying very seriously.

  45. http://www.handofhelp.com/vision_1.php
    The Message for America
    Dumitru Duduman
    September 1984

    When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety – from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean…

  46. I was driving in the car with the radio news on and heard that Barak Obama had just won the Nobel Peace Prize. The Holy Spirit spoke the instant I heard that and there was no mistaking anything here. He said, “Through peace, he shall destroy many”. Straight out of the book of Daniel.
    There is trouble coming from this man somewhere, sometime.

  47. (Sorry, I left out the whole paragraph.)

    He said, “Remember this, Dumitru. The Russian spies have discovered where the nuclear warehouses are in America. When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety – from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,,..” (He told me two other countries, but I didn’t remember what they were.) “…they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn!”

  48. Darren Smith “The list was long and to the point, with such points as the killing of several generations of unborn children. Beside this charge He added that these babies had been sacrificed to the god of self.”

    The Word of the Lord:
    The Steeple and the Horn of the Beast- 12/5/05
    “Why must you perform human sacrifices of your young to the goddesses of selfishness and convenience, the precious gifts that I have given to you? Do you not know that I knew them by name before they were conceived within your wombs, as I knew you before you were conceived in your mother’s womb? But do not accuse the woman of this deed, as Adam did in the garden. For she was not alone in her sin, but the man also with her. Was not My own sacrifice sufficient for you? For I am everlasting to everlasting, for the price has already been paid for ALL time.” Nila Yeo

  49. Americans do not vote on Supreme Court Juris. This is the unfortunate aspect of this branch of government. Local judges are elected…why not jurises to the highest court in the land?

  50. William Marks Jan 21st 2013

    I am surprised that you would encourage Christians to be willing slaves of a government that murders millions of our unborn every year. I will not hide my light under a basket and I will continue to fight against the evil in our country by illuminating what Scripture says about these evils. Would Christ want us to be silent in the face of the sins of our nation? Are you encouraging us to count for nothing in the war against Satan and his followers? How will that make a difference? We need to be outspoken against the evils around us. Never surrender to the forces of evil. Always expose their sins.

  51. “America is already judged, the time of shaking is now and will increase rapidly…”

    *The Judgment-
    I was watching the evening news at 6:30pm and for the first time seeing the devastation that had occurred from hurricane Katrina and the flooding down south. Immediately the Holy Spirit spoke and said, “The judgment is set and the sentence is being passed.” 8/13/05

    *While talking with someone about the problems down south at this time and my watching the news and reading the paper, the Word of the Lord came to me again, “The cup of iniquity is full, the judgment is set and the sentence is being passed.” My heart grieved.

    I then asked the Lord if the judgment can be overturned and He said, “Only the hearts of individuals can be changed for the sentence to be revoked. But as for this country of iniquity, she would not repent, the cup of
    iniquity is full, the judgment is set and the sentence is being passed.” 9/9/05

  52. Thank you Brother Joshua Harris, well said.

    Yes, bad times are coming but NOT only to the USA. ALL nations are going to feel judgment. This is a GLOBAL judgment, James 5. That said, can anyone point me to a Christian Revival forum where the topics are about prayer, the mighty power of God, the incredible grace of God, the awe-inspiring Love of God, the Revival that’s about to transpire that will totally freak out the inhabitants of this planet in a humbling, awesome, and joyous way? it would be nice to encourage one another with such faith-building topics instead of depressing Temporal topics I can read anywhere on the Internet. Father, in the name of our Lord Jesus, please forgive us. We believe, dear Father, please help our unbelief!

    NOW is when the Remnant is discovering a whole new level of intimacy and wonderment in the power and the privilege of PRAYER! If this isn’t happening in our hearts at this time, we’d better run to the Throne of Grace in humility and find out why? Lord, is it I?

  53. Many times visions are influenced by the person’s personal beliefs. I have heard of people who went to heaven in a near death experience, were ill before they had the experience and remained ill after the experience. In her testimony it was clear that she did not believed God healed!

    Prophets have had to change their predictions. This was clearly seen with Isaiah and king Hezekiah. Isaiah the prophet had told Hezekiah that he would die. Hezekiah repented and the Lord told the prophet to go back to Hezekiah and tell him that he would live another 15 years.

    We are a part of God and One with the Lord Jesus. The Bible says that we ARE as He Is – 1John 4:17. We know that the Blood of Jesus was shed for ALL sins to be redeemed. We can stand in the gap for those who are missing the mark on the completed Work of the Lord – John 20:23, Colossians 2:15.

    Prophecies or visions are changeable by those who are as God is in His Image and Likeness – Genesis 1:26-27. This is why we are told that we prophesy in part and know in part.

    Another example is that God told His people that they can see their land healed if they humbled themselves and spoke to Him – We are told that death and Life are in the power of the tongue – Proverbs 18:21. The power of man who is as God in the Lord Jesus is not limited; on the Basis of the Blood of the Lord Jesus. The total defeat of satan who is the source of ALL death and destruction by the Lord Jesus means that we can stand with authority in the Lord and claim forgiveness for sins that are already paid for’ and we can decree and declare the Peace and Joy of the Lord over all of the US.

    The Truth is that God does not will for us to enter into testing – see the Lord’s Prayer where He tells us to ask the Lord not to lead us into testing. This means testing is not of the Lord.

    The Lord is God and He is King. As submitted Sons of the Lord we follow the example of the Lord who did not do anything unless He saw His Father do it. As we grow in the Lord’s Wisdom we will see how even death is not always a curse – as the Lord is both the God of the Living and the dead. – see Revelations.

  54. SOJOURNER
    © 2003

    1. I’m a sojourner to this world a non-conformer I’m just passin through

    I’m a sojourner and I’m a true beleiver heavens where I’m goin to

    I’m a sojourner I was quite a loner until I was born anew

    I’m a sojourner the earth I won’t mourn her when my time is through

    Ch: When my king comes back again

    I’ll rise up in a twinling of an eye

    There I’ll be livin in my own land

    and I’ll kiss this old world goodbye!

    Lead:

    2. I’m a sojourner there’s a place that’s finer this world it won’t do

    I’m a sojourner and I know heavens founder you can know him too

    I’m a sojourner but thank God a learner I know what’s really true

    I’m a sojourner just watch the timer He’s comin for his chosen few!

    Ch:

  55. I believe this whole scenario is very possible. Thanks for posting these words, Andrew……And for continuing to speak out in the face of so much opposition.

  56. Meagan Jan 21st 2013

    Yesterday, I read a article about you can choose between the The Sword(War) or the Cross(Jesus):

    http://www.ubm1.org/?page=swordorcross

    I am now learn that I need to both submit to God and the government to avoid heartache and loose my soul.

  57. Leaderofexcell Jan 21st 2013

    Many different points of view and opinions have been presented. My husband often says jokingly, “you mean I have my opinion wrong”? The above views hold different interpretations of scripture and indeed we could say there is a mini civil war going on right here at this website. Unless you are living through a situation, unless you live in America as Christian, you will not be able to truly appreciate what is going on here. First of all, it is very frustrating as a Christian to see that there are many denominations with a smorgasbord of biblical interpretations. We are like sheep who have been scattered. There is little agreement on many levels of Chritstianity. A.W. Tozer states that there does come a time where division is necessary. We, a few years ago, clearly faced a time like that with the whole Lakeland Florida fiasco. There are few who truly discern. We need to be in prayer to discern the heart of the Father. Sometimes He gives us prophesy to warn but we can pray to avert the impending crisis. I am reminded of Reese Howell whose intercessory prayer (along with those world wide) held four key turning points for WW 2. I am reminded of God healing Kenneth Hagin’s wife of a terminal illness. God told him, “because you have prayed in faith beliveing you have changed Divine destiny.” We, as law abiding Christians, stayed within the boundaries of our constitution and fighting legally within its parameters had the rug pulled out from under us with the ruling of the Roe vs Wade. For 39 years we have hated the legalized murder of the unborn. We, as Christians, have paid our taxes to go to that holocust. We still fight. One more thing, I asked a Jewish friend once, why did the Jews not fight back? He said because we belived the scripture that states, “when you go through the waters you will not drown and when you go through the fire you will not burn.” I believe and we have many instances of prayers prayed by the founding fathers of America. America. Was Covenanted to God. America weighs in the balance and, we as ChristiAns pray for God’s Mercy and protection as we do for Isreal And for any other country where God’s people reside. We have had an aweful civil war already, I pray we as American’s would learn from history and it not repeat itself. It was a needless war. If men would have listened to the Word of God then- that all men are to be free. We are facing times and facing that spirit of the Anti-Christ that hates anything about God. Therefore it hates us. It wants to annihilate us. Will I take the mark of the beast or will I fight? What will you do? One more thing, I believe the reason we need the Holy Spirit because He gives us moment to moment instruction. It is not that Americans are fighting to bear arms, it is the principle of our inalienable rights!

  58. I don’t normally get into these forums very often and try to limit myself, but for some reason, this and the last posts have truly hit a nerve, esp. when I see the watchmen on the wall not yelling out the warning of impending danger any longer, but are now not just blowing the horns of danger, but blasting them as hard and strong as they can as the enemy now stands at the walls with their battering rams.

    When it comes to guns, protection, fighting against the government, enslavement… Did not God intervene on His people’s behalf before? Did He not say that the battle is not ours? Did He not free His people from Egypt when He said enough and sent His servant, but then the people had to truly learn to rely on Him for their daily needs and bread? Did the widow’s oil and wheat run out during a famine, when she obeyed the word of the Lord and gave her last to the prophet? Was not Stephen stoned for the word of his testimony and will be given a martyr’s crown?

    How can we say that we are God’s people, when we don’t trust Him to take care of us as He said He would, even from the days of old? Or were those miracles of deliverance for the Old Testament only?

    I will repost what the Lord said last week in His word, Rev. 13:9-10 concerning war and weapontry.

    What I find so amazing in a lot of posts, and not just here, is people who call themselves Children of God, but the word of their testimony says different from that of the words of our Saviour. Is that why Christ asked when he comes back if He will find any faith? We are given a little faith, but for it to grow we need to exercise that faith and I could tell you of miracles, people raised from the dead, healings, deliverance… I guess the true question is where is our faith and who or what do we put it on allowing it to grow?

    No, I’m no better than anyone else, so do not accuse me of thinking or saying as such.

  59. Jean Clink Jan 21st 2013

    The morning after the re-election of Obama I woke up and sobbed inconsolably. So I did the only thing I know to do and that is pray in tongues, and it was intense. Then I had a strong sense of the Kingdom of God moving into my mind and all the other concerns left me. Now, I resist listening to the news as I used to. I have not read my Facebook home page where I used to post articles.

    I have seen youtubes that are frightening – one, a middle-aged policeman saying that the federal gov has put red and blue stickers on everyone’s mailboxes so they will know whom to come and get, rallying the people to get their guns ready. This man may think he is a Christian but he is more insane and inane than Christian.

    I agree with Joshua Harris – there is no use addressing people like this. They have always been, and always will be till Jesus comes.

    I really appreciate Andrew Strom’s words and actions concerning the so-called prophetic movement, and the false and destructive practise of repeat-after-me prayers. I hope our Christian leaders will focus on teaching the real Gospel of Jesus Christ, how we are to act in times of duress and persecution and stop expressing worry and fear.

  60. Mick 2 Jan 21st 2013

    William Branham told us in the thirties, that the US would be destroyed. We got further details, later in his ministry. Branham’s emphasis was to “GET INTO THE ARK!” which is Christ; Noah’s ark being only a type of Christ. The rest of the world will be destroyed ultimately, and “all things made new”. This is all good news. We must not cleave to this world (Satan’s) by either loving it or hating it, for in either case, we’re cleaving to it. Look to God our Savior; there’s never been a better time.

  61. downbyaswamp Jan 21st 2013

    If the government acts in a blatantly unconstitutional manner. Then all Americans, Christian, or non Christian have a duty to oppose such actions and resist. This is our heritage. This is our responsibility.

  62. @downbyaswamp
    If the government acts in a blatantly unconstitutional manner. Then all Americans, Christian, or non Christian have a duty to oppose such actions and resist. This is our heritage. This is our responsibility.

    Oh, Really? Who’s order is that? This whole idea of Christian Nationalism just sickens me. Will America have a civil war? Probably, in my view. Do I really care? Not really, I have cast my cares upon my Christ. Does any one think that He is not in charge?

  63. I so appreciate Watchmen like Brother David Wilkerson. He is one who never sowed “discord” among the Believers. He was not divisive, and he never played one Saint against another. He never berated someone if their ideas of the word was not exactly as his….as long at Christ was their Lord and Savior.

    He believed in freedom of each one to have an opinion on scriptures as long as it did not go against the basic foundation of Salvation through the Blood of the Cross. How we need more like him in this day of strife….like never before. So like our Savior and one who is a great example for us for the day we live in. Such a precious love!

  64. downbyaswamp Jan 21st 2013

    @ Greg If you were a German citizen in Nazi Germany would you really have done nothing?…. AMAZING

  65. Richard Savage Jan 21st 2013

    American and Civil War … well, it’s not new. I recall all the press over here in the UK during the sixties and seventies about he Civil Rights movement. The States was close on civil war then; I’m sure our American cousins will recall better than I, but didn’t Alabama fight tooth and nail to prevent civil rights? Wasn’t KKK involved also, fomenting war between the races?

    So what’s the difference now? Different issue maybe, but still comes from Washington. Different people, but they inherited the same complexes.

    Just think, civil war will play right to Obama’s hands – he gets to loose the military on civilians – martial law – locks down each individual, secures total and unremitting control from Washington. Never to let it go.

    Hello NWO!

    A dramatisation? Don’t think so. We’re facing the same things here in Europe. But let me advise you, Britain had a thirty year civil war in Ulster – 1968 – 1999 – and nothing was ever resolved. Brother fought against brother, son against father. Guess what? A new generation, inculcated with the same prejudices, are kicking off again. No change then.

    But, sadly, it will happen for America – you know it as well as I.

  66. Marc Wildman Jan 21st 2013

    Hello

    I would have to agree with you Andrew.

    I keep thinking of the scripture, ‘to much is given much is required’?

    America is the land of immigrants and we have been mightily blessed for decades. But I am afraid things have taken a turn and you can see this desire for materialism is above God and the same ideology is being taught in many of our Churches. In fact, many of the largest Churches here in America have sold out to the prosperity messages. So Revelation Chapter Three is coming into full view. They are rich and in need of nothing?

    This message written below on your original email is right on target. “The message to Christians here in America is the same that
    Jeremiah told to Judah- Submit to God´s judgment and it will go
    well for you, resist and it will cost some their lives and others their
    freedom…”

    In fact many of us felt directed by the Holy Spirit not to vote in the 2012 election period. We felt it was time to put ‘spiritual duty’ above ‘civil duty’. Are we then men pleasers or God pleasers? Many Christians kept saying we needed to vote for the lesser of two evils? But the God I/we serve wouldn’t have us voting for evil for any reason.

    I concur that right now America is being judged and what better way than to put her under the rule of her enemies. God didn’t spare His first-born, Israel, and He used the same medicine. Israel ended up in bondage to a government for 400 years and others.

    So, anyone who attempts to join a resistance, and take up fire arms against their government may see God’s hand lifted from protecting them. It’s a hard pill to swallow but we have to look to the character of Christ when He stood before His accusers. The Bible said He could have called down legions of angels and chose instead to walk humbly to His death on a cross. Now He is high and lifted up!

    The weapons of our warfare our not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds and a man who can hold his tongue can rule a city!

    Nobody wants to hear the truth these days but it needs to be spoken anyway!

    MW

  67. ben palm Jan 21st 2013

    I think the issue on guns isn’t the primary issue like it’s being made out to be. This is the straw that is breaking the back. Since I was born over 40 million babies have been killed. Our taxes are paying for this. When we order Bibles printed from Zondervan we are supporting a man who has a 24 hour porn tv station. When I was a kid we had marches against pornography in 7 11. We had marches against abortion. The christian church in a whole has been silent for almost 30 years. I see it as people are starting to realize that what are country went to war for is being eroded away at breakneck speed. The gun issue is an ammendment the very foundation to keep out country free. The issue of thinking a gun will save you and you don’t have to rely on God is not the issue. This is a bigger more complex issue. When they come for the guns then the Church freedom is next look at history in every continent. If that is what God wants for us to have this judgement then we will accept it. I am not sure that we are suppose to go down the same way as other countries. There is a lot of people that are tired of the wickedness, and unrepresentation that we have and it does seem similar to what we fought for originally.

  68. thevoiceof1 Jan 21st 2013

    Has anyone read Chuck Baldwyns book on Romans 13?

    http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/3754-2

  69. jerry b baker Jan 21st 2013

    I have been a watchman on the wall of America for a very long time and the Lord has shown me about this coming conflict since the middle 1980′s. I differ with several of your readers who say not to resist this government because the U.S. governments with it’s asperations to be a part of the global government is going to be exactly like Germany who murdered millions who were unarmed before they took over and this war will not be a civil war but another Revolutionary War like our Godly forefather’s fought to be able to have freedom of religion. I wrote down a prophetic letter to the American Church in 1992 which is about this very time because Jesus told me to write it for a record against false prophesies being sent out about our President at the time! I was really down on America for her sins but I’ve seen the rest of the world since then and I realized a Godly America has been God’s Evangelist since it’s birth and restoration is God’s desire. I can’t put it all on this post but I will put a prophesy which is in the letter here:
    I HEAR A TURBULENT WIND BLOWING

    “The spirit of the Lord is breathing into the dry bones once again. He that hath an ear let him hear what the wind is saying. Get out of the world, separate yourself, be holy, be chaste, and be ready, For I am calling to my chosen to keep a watch, be ready, be willing to follow my every word without doubting. Be ready to move at a moment’s notice. Be ever so sensitive to my voice.”

    “LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!”
    “For only your spirit .can hear what I am saying.
    Your soul must be in subjection to your spirit or
    You will miss my call and you will not want
    to miss my call”, says the Lord of Hosts, “for there
    will come tribulation which the world has never seen.”

    “LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!”
    “You don’t have to be subject to the coming woes,
    if you will hear my instruction. You must not be
    Complacent, you must pay the price to
    lose your life / soul (psuche)
    So that your spirit can hear and follow my voice.”

    “LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!”
    “Do you hear me?
    I am speaking now! My prophets have said they
    Haven’t heard me of late and rightly so for even my
    prophets have to learn this new code of mine. I will not
    speak as I have before in an open vision for all to interpret outwardly, but I’ll speak to this ‘one new man’, which is my chosen ones. Yes, those who now in this time make the choice to hear me. When you have learned the code (see II Peter 1:12, present truth) you’ll be instructed in the way I want you to walk, then you’ll walk above the natural realm.

  70. Ruthie Jan 21st 2013

    By “not resisting” the government, are you suggesting that we accept the mark of the beast on our hands or foreheads, even though God condemns our accepting it?

  71. I dont personally believe its in the devils interest to cause a civil war in the USA if he plans to use it, along with the EU, to subdue the world, (a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand etc). I think it will be a regional political division based on local statehood etc. Once US citizens get completely tired of all the US foreign wars then maybe they will be more open to this idea, with local taxation and decision making etc, perhaps reducing military spending? It may happen in stages, altho quite quickly i expect.
    .
    Obama may be ther last US president. There was a word on here a few yrs ago, that i witnessed to, that likened Obama to Alexandra the Great, who was the last ruler of Greece before it split into 4 nations. Alex the Gt ruled for 7 yrs Obama has just started his 2nd term of 4 yrs. Interesting maths there…

  72. To thoe who may question vessels the Spirit of God uses . Joel 2 : 28 – 29 A Promise …” It shall COME TO PASS afterward that I WILL pour out my spirit UPON all flesh anf your sons and daughters SHALL PROPHESY , your old men shall dream dreams , your YOUNG men shall see visions . And also upon the servants and the hand maidens , in those days will I pour out MY SPIRIT”….PROMISE FILLED Acts 2
    Acts 21 : 4 – 5 Jesus said “WAIT FOR THE PROMISE” Everything that is going to happen has or will be revealed by God through the Spirit of God… SEARCH GODS WORD!!!!

  73. What about Austraila/New Zealand,you think God’s happy with them?
    God is weeping over the whole World. That doesn’t mean he’s done.
    2Chron 7:14 still applies!!!!!!!!!
    Installing fear is not helpful!
    God’s Mercy is still available.
    Prophecies given outside of one’s gifting don’t work out well(end’s up
    coming from one’s own heart- Jer speakers a lot to this)
    It’s time to calm down and Pray.

  74. harvestistipe Jan 21st 2013

    Ruthie, we must resist the evil of this world, have nothing to do with its darkness, and that will mean the One World Beast System we are seeing being put in place even as I type. God would never ask up to submit to the antichrist nor his mark in fact Jesus the author of revelation thru John tells us just the oposit our souls would be dammed if we were to take his mark. we are not to have is a murderous mindset preplanning to pick up arms to kill,it is the entyent not the gun itself.

    We must also the Lord and not submitt to the enemy of our soul.

    When we are told to obey our rulers our kings, if we are of Christs kingdom he is our king, when we are asked to be disobediant to Christ by any earthly ruler, we do not have to do so, in fact our allegiance is to Christ.

  75. Andrew Jan 21st 2013

    This issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with the “mark of the beast” or any such thing.

    It is simply discussing a possible ‘Civil War’ in America, and how Christians should respond.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  76. Right on harvestistipe. Ruthie’s question must be answered. The beast system is a government. Are we to obey that system? Are we to submit to such a horrible system? Is that system a government established by God? Thorny!

  77. Andrew,

    Most of the prophecies you posted tell Christians not to resist the government. I find that to be bad advice! We must resist all evil however it shows itself. I’m not talking about force of arms. There is no way to resist in that fashion. It would be suicide. But resist we must. We remain faithful to the Lord in all circumstances.

    VC

  78. Anyone that takes the mark of the beast is damned to the final death. Read Revelation.

    God has told us what is to come and expects us to prepare.

    God did not build the ark for Noah, Noah built the ark as instructed by God. God did not provide the supplies for Noah, Noah brought in the supplies. God brought the animals to the ark.

    Do you have your ark ready for what is coming?

    Revelation states that a people beyond counting come out of the Tribulation. 1,000,000,000 – one billion – how long does it take to count to a 1,000,000,000 saying one number per section… 31.7 years non-stop. So how many come out of the tribulation, a number beyond counting. What is coming is unbelievable.

    The Bible also states that Jesus will return after the great tribulation to gather his elect from the earth.

    Do you have your ark ready for what is coming?

  79. I was somewhat troubled at the final prophecy posting that said not to resist but to just go along quietly into captivity. Is that godly advice? If the church in Germany had resisted Hitler in the beginning, maybe millions would not have been slaughtered. I know there were some who resisited but the majority joined in with the evil. It was called the Bund. Christian pulpits with swastikas and crosses interwoven emblazoned churches. Pastors and priests hobnobbed with the Nazis. Hitler could never have acheived what he did if it was not for the compliance of the churches. A sober and historical warning.

  80. Marilyn Crow Jan 21st 2013

    1. No Civil War.
    America has the biggest & most powerful army in the world – so no widespread civil war, but continuing turmoil in groups, gangs, `tribes,` (like Waco etc) The noose is tightening as Satan continues to hold sway over the world, as God`s word declares.

    And no treaty, constitution will stop him. But we know that the world`s system(Political, Economic & Religious) will be judged by God. God is not going to fix it up, change it or transform it but judge it in His appointed time when the cup is full.

    The Christian Response.
    I believe we need to read again what God says in His word concerning America & the other super powers, then watch that unfold as God said it would. Accurate prophecy from God`s word that has come to pass, is coming to pass & will come to pass, speaks clearly to people & not fearful, unclear messages from people.

    2. God is not judging the Body of Christ.
    We are joined to Christ & God is not judging His Son or His Body. The Lord Jesus Christ is building His `called out ones.` He is maturing us & we are growing together as every joint supplies. Just because some people or organisations call themselves Christian, it is plain to see they are not. They will, if they don`t repent, get swept up in the world`s religious order.

    The Christian Response.
    I believe we need to continue to look to the Lord to daily change our attitudes & mindsets. Also we need to continue to pray, help mentor family, friends & those around, speaking out on issues to help individual people but not with the false expectation of changing the world system.

    Discussions like this, thanks to Andrew help us clarify our own beliefs, listen to others & seek the Lord for greater patience with each other as we journey from being `tossed to & fro,` to full maturity in Christ as His Body.

    Appreciate everyone on the journey. Marilyn.

  81. It’s sad to see something that could be a catalyst for renewed commitment to Jesus Christ become the next topic in the debate about whatever. I am going to be a disciple of Jesus Christ come whatever. That is my decision. Whether America sinks or swims matters not when it comes to that reality. “If we live, we live for the Lord. If we die, we die for the Lord. Whether we live or whether we die we are the Lord’s”.

    That is my true concern, To be the Lord’s.

  82. Andrew Jan 21st 2013

    Well said, Davo.

    Blessings to all.

    Andrew

  83. Daniel Jan 21st 2013

    The tribe of Joseph recieved the 2x blessing; not Ruben…..later we see Josahu as a leader(from Joseph). in Ps. 78:9; then v67 the blessing of being a leader taken away from Joseph’s tribes cuase they didn’t go to war.
    We see God killing 10spies that told the people not to go to war. We see David being called a man after God’s heart………cause he went to war………..
    Jesus tells us we are to be salt; lite; salt changes the taste of things—-gets involved 100%……..lite ‘gets in face of darkness’ and undoes darkness……….again gets involved 100%…………
    Jeses stated go into all the world and preach the gospel………yet andrew you and guy from houston TX area tell us not to get involved with the gov’t, not to be lite/salt …………SHOULD WE OBEY YOU, OR JESUS.?????
    IF CHURCH WOULD HAVE GOTTEN INVOLED IN HOLLYWOOD, AND GOV’T. THEN MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SPELLED HOLY-WOOD !!!!!

    THE BIBLE IS CLEAR IN THE END WILL BE 10NATIONS; RIGHT NOW EUPROPE HAS 16 OR 17………….SO AGAIN IF BIBLE IS CORRECT…………..WE AREN’T IN THE END
    also usa isn’t in bible, unless it is bableyon of Rev. And in Ez. when the group of nations attack Jews usa isn’t stopping it…….therefore usa will be of no valve in the end……….we are being tore apart YES.

    as to supporting our presd. andrew we aren’t to suppose evil; we are to be watchmen on wall. and VERY SAD; watchman didn’t awake until guns on table to be taken…………..
    but watchmen is awake; if watchmen start repenting usa can be saved.

    this swearing in is the first time in usa history that a christian leader wasn’t there to pray……….WHY DIDN’T YOU OR OTHERS SPEAK ABOUT THAT….??????????
    THERE WAS TO BE A CHRISTIAN PASTOR TO PRAY. HE IS KNOW AS A PERSON THAT WORKS TO STOP HUMANTRAFFICING………..
    why wasn’t he there?? the gay/lisb. council to obama didn’t want him, because he has also preached the bible……….that the gay marrieges are a sin in God’s view…………….so gay/lisb. came out of closet, and christian in the closest…….and you want us to support this????
    obama is doing things to get God to curse the usa………..and you want us to hide our lites and not be salt ???

    as jews under Moses coming to promise land children of lot ask their ‘prophet’ how can we win against them; and were told sent your ‘women’ down to have sex with their men; then their God will turn against them………tons were killed by God; only looking to the brozen cross were they healed.
    under obama; gays in miltary openly, gay marrieges, gays words canc’l christian leader praying , usa paying for abortions around the world; helping to set up nations ran by mulsim brotherhood, so in future to attack jews, helped destroy(burn) all churches in nation of Afg. cuase that what new gov’t wanted…..our miltary help burn the churches.
    sickness; that were done away with in usa; are coming back cuase people from mex. are coming here freely without getting shots—–this started under bush; then ‘pedal to metal’ under obama. in state of CA last fall sign into law, if a child wants to be gay/lisb. parent can’t stop them, can’t take them to church to get help, if dr. trys and help the child dr. can lose his/her licn. and fined, child can be taken from parent if parent con’t trying to ‘help’ child……..it is in court now but gov’t brown, and fed. gov’t vowed to fight to make sure it stays as law—-what happen in bible when gays rule???—–and you want us to support this??
    go read about GMO foods; or pharmacy companies richer then oil companies, and soda companies together……..working together to kill us off……………and you want us to keep silent???
    that same spirit is happening today…….’false prophets’ are telling what to do/not do; to get God to curse His people.

    i chose to fight in prayer Ep 6;
    i chose to use words —-salt/lite
    i chose to use actions —salt/lite

    Oh as to those ‘dreams’ about usa in 4pts that is the globalist desires, almost 20years ago they started building ports in mex. then gave mex. gov’t usa land, and building a freeway from mex. to canada with hub in Kansas city area; then from K city freeway going E/W to both coast, the the dividing of usa into 4pts to make no part have to pay back debt; then killing off people into fema camps.
    go watch the UN nov 1 2012 meeting. obama guys stating usa needs to downside its people cuase to many, and asking for forgiveness cause we use to much stuff in world.
    our gov’t doesn’t care if we die in fema camps or civil war. if we give up guns die in fema camps, civil war they think they will win and we die off.

  84. Richard Savage Jan 21st 2013

    VC, I beg to differ. What happened was set in stone; the conditions, spiritual and otherwise, were just right for a Hitler. If not Hitler than maybe a Strauss, Schmidt or a Merkel. Of course he could have achieved what he did without the compliance of the churches – he did it without the compliance of the synagogues!

    I long ago spoke with a former Nazi soldier, a Christian, born again after the War. He said, we Germans had one face for church on Sundays (that’s the Lutherans for the most part) and another for weekdays. Yes to these, and yes to them!

    But let us remember this: if it had not been for the Holocaust, in which I lost many, very many, of my wider Polish family, there would have been no Israeli state.

    I’ve also had the extreme privilege of knowing well a Messianic rabbi, a Jewish man who was four years in Auschwitz 1. He says, along with other Jews of my acquaintance, the history of the war is not as you believe it to be. From this man I learned the true meaning of forgiveness, that same meaning as Jesus’ words – Father forgive them, for they know not what they do. The depth of that plea is unfathomable.

    America, by all accounts is coming close to imploding. Pray you don’t have a Hitler, or a Schmidt, or a Merkel.

    But be prepared America, something nasty coming to a corner shop near you.

    Oh, and it’s happening in the UK too! And Europe, so …

  85. Andrew, I too love you and pray for you. I have followed your ministry and agree that God has given you things that are right on.

    But I too have to disagree on certain areas. One thing that is not talked about alot here is that our constitution was God given, meaning it parallels God’s commandments. It was inspired by Him.
    Something that we should respect and try to adhere. I don’t love this nation in the way that it is spoken of here, I love that God blessed this nation above so many others and used it for many years according to His will. Apart from Israel, we are second in blessings and prosperity in my view. He had a plan and purpose and special reason for this nation, I don’t care what is being said.

    Civil authorities are suppose to wield the sword of righteousness, but our civil authorities have given themselves over to evil and the love of evil. I do not pray for them to prosper but for God to destroy that which is in rebellion to Him and to raise up righteous leaders.

    We are to obey God before man, period. I am not talking about fighting the government in an armed civil conflict. But when our laws are given to perversion, murder of innocent, corruption, lies, then I strongly oppose anyone who says we are to just give in and go along. I am not talking captivity. I am talking about oppression and wickedness ruling over us. We are to be the salt and light. Not passive doormats.

    We need to pray as individuals before the Lord and ask Him what each of us should do and I also pray that God will protect and cover us when these things happen. I don’t believe we just have the mind set of being taken captive and passively waiting for that. I think God has a plan for His true followers versus the church of today.

    I also weep for the inheritance that we are throwing away as a people. I do not grieve over babylon, because that is what we are becoming. But just as there were 7000 who had not bowed their knees to baal, so in America there is a remnant of righteous who cry out to God for forgiveness, mercy, and a spirit of repentance to sweep this land, and that is not praying for babylon. We need judgement. It must come.

    Israel mourned over their judgements as well and would repent and go back and forth. When Israel repented God blessed, when they rebelled God judged. We parallel Israel in so many ways.

    What nation has not sinned????? New Zealand?? Australia??
    But God in His patience doesn’t want any to perish and so we have
    not seen complete destruction, a great shaking yes and so much more to come. Civil war, possibly. More loss of life, yes. I heard that the Lord said for as many babies have been aborted, I will require life for life. So yes, more loss of life and natural disasters coming. A time of purging.

    But America belongs to God and so for all those out there crying destruction, destruction, I pose a new thought. Maybe God is going to have His way so that His plans can come about. Judgement but then “restoration”. Even for a short while. The Lord is over the nations. He puts up one leader and down another. Either God is in control or not. God chastens those He loves and America is under chastisement. But He does so in that we turn back to Him and that doesn’t always mean complete destruction.
    How hard are our hearts?

    Yes, I own a gun. I have a right to defense of self. Do I want to use it? No. Will I use it? Yes. If someone threatened us. We also live in Alaska and hunt. I have bears running through my yard so darn skippy I own a gun. Nothing un Christ like in that.
    Yes God is my defense, but God also gives us common sense, rationale, reasonable thinking abilities. If a bear is running in my yard and I am outside, should I as a Christian stand there and be attacked because I should not love life or my faith is so great?????
    Really????

    We should not be arming ourselves or joining militias, that I agree.
    But Israel if I remember correctly, rose up many times and fought back, they did not just go captive each time. Maccabees armed and resisted the invaders and government of their time and God was with them and delivered them. They had victory when they should have lost. So we should think things through and look to the biblical history before making blanket statments about being
    passive. The Scriptures say “in as much as we can keep the peace we should”. But sometimes peace can’t be kept because of evil. Yes, this government is wickedly evil. Just like Israel had wicked rulers over them and these were not blessed of the Lord. Allowed for a time yes, blessed no. We are not to pray blessings upon the unrighteous.

    If someone breaks into my home to destroy and kill, do we stand by and do nothing because we are Christians and don’t love our lives to give them over to wicked doers? Really? You can’t throw pearls to swine nor will everyone turn from evil.

    Yes I hope and pray that God will watch over and protect.
    But we live in a fallen world, are surrounded by evil. We are to stay separate and watchful, not render evil for evil, not pick a fight.
    But we are not doormats being led to a slaughter either.

    We all have to follow God’s plan for us and do as He says. I just think some of these comments are blanket statements that don’t make biblical sense and some are judging all these things here in this nation according to their own views and experiences.

  86. George Jan 21st 2013

    Andrew, those were very powerful testimonies about what’s coming to America.
    I, too, believe that we should submit to God’s purpose.
    I know that no one wants to die, prematurely, but if we take up
    “arms” and try to fight against this government, we might be fighting against God’s purpose.
    God will put it in our heart what we need to do that will give Him the greatest Glory. WE are to wait on His leading, not our own.
    He WILL NOT let us down! We love NOT our lives unto the DEATH, IF IT BE God’s WILL!
    Thank you Andrew for SOUND , Godly DOCTRINE to live by!

  87. Richard Savage Jan 21st 2013

    Daniel, there’s 27 states in the EU, but only 10 hard core states of which the UK is not one.

    How is the USA in Ezekiel? Bit of an overstatement, isn’t it?

    But you are very right, our governments don’t care about people or how we die. Believe me, I’ve first hand experience on that one. Our much vaunted health service, once the envy of the world, I’m told, is now killing elderly people and it’s quite legal and acceptable. That’s genocide!!

    Didn’t Hitler’s people practice genocide too?

  88. Richard Savage Jan 21st 2013

    Linda: America belongs to God.

    How, why, what is the Scriptural basis for this?

    I’d be most interested to know the answer to that one.

    We Brits a hundred years ago thought we were God’s own empire, that the Church of England was the repository for all Godly truth.

    Now look at us, broken, bankrupted, divided, infiltrated and powerless. Did I mention Godless?

    God’s own country – might be good to lose that idea and get real!

  89. AmericanChristian, we are not the ancient Israelites fighting to possess the land of Caanan.
    Yahweh and His Heavenly Host fought before and with the armies of Israel to purge the land of idolatry.
    I am not convinced that Yahweh is calling His believers to take up arms against this sin-filled nation.

  90. Daniel Jan 21st 2013

    forget;
    a couple of people quoted the bible where they were going into capt. for their sins………….that isn’t the whole truth………..cause at other times when the people rose up and over-ran their leaders they didn’t go into capt………the truth is they were going into capt. cause they didn’t do anything about their leaders beforehand…………
    so yes you do nothing and let your leader, lead into sin, you will suffer; and/or go into capt. in future.
    quoting only they had to go into capt. is lining up with satan, he quoted the bible, yet didn’t quote the whole story.

    if christians don’t repent for not being involved in gov’t, or hollywood—then supporting hollywood usa will fall apart and money be of no to little valve within 6months.
    Matt 25 passage the 10 virgins; all were asleep then awake, 5 had oil; holy spirit………….could the awaking about guns be that. and 5 with oil be those that are going to fight for their rights for guns, then prayer back in school, gov’t, ban specical rights to gays, clean school system, etc…………i hope and pray yes,’
    if not usa money will be no valve and starve; rest of nations won’t sell here, can’t call on usa to save them. and one world order will take shape faster and faster in world……….then world will have to submit to one world order or call on God not usa.

  91. Gordon Quickstad Jan 21st 2013

    Where the present civil grief comes from is mostly the reality of the slaughter of pre-born humans by the millions. As in every killing situation, there are some of those who are not directly involved, yet who are much more sensitive to it than others. Maybe the sensitivity comes from a sense of empathy caused just by one’s particular personality. Or, perhaps a personal study of the physical and personality traits that are inherited through the genome (fascinating discoveries learned in the ’80′s from identical twins raised apart), or just one’s life experiences. Or, maybe one’s having a mother who had little or no qualms about abortions either for herself or others. Rev. 2:23 says “I will kill her children with death” – this may be a fulfilling judgement we are seeing. Also, Rev. 9:18 sees a third part of mankind killed by fire, brimstone, smoke, and brimstone issued from the mouths of 4 angels. The current killings are caused by the mouths of politicians and judges which can be thought of as “fire, smoke, and brimstone”. We are seeing these kinds of death percentages right now in the numbers of killed pre-borns. It is truly unprecedented and makes Bible prophecy either currently being fulfilled or easily seen as readily fulfillable.

  92. I love reading all the comments from brothers and sisters from around the world. It gives us all a view of what the body of Christ esteems as more important while living in this life.

    I am surprised but should not be that American Christians are saying they would take up arms and willingly kill someone to defend this perverted country.

    If people were to take up arms it would be utter chaos and totally unorganized and men would not be able to stand against a trained army with superior weapons. So any talk of fighting a government with its armies is just lunacy.

    In America you often hear people say “if they come to take my guns they will have to take them off of a cold body.”

    I have heard this numerous times but its just talk.

    Submitting ourselves to the living God is the only thing that will provide any assurance of safety as He will hide us under the shadow of His wings.

  93. Marilyn Crow Jan 21st 2013

    Daniel
    The USA is in the Bible.
    I notice that Americans have been looking for this for ages, but they are looking in the wrong places. God always shows the beginning of powers first then later what they are doing.

    As this forum is for comments & short discussion I wont post teaching. However if any are interested in seeing what God says about the USA let me know.

  94. Andrew Jan 21st 2013

    One of the comments above contained this incredible statement-

    “One thing that is not talked about alot here is that our constitution was God given, meaning it parallels God’s commandments. It was inspired by Him.”

    Listen, this is utter deception. And it is at the root of a lot of the confusion that Americans have about mixing Christianity with Nationalism – the Idolatry of the nation.

    The Constitution is not “Christian”. Many of the men who were behind it were known Deists and Freemasons. No doubt they were very upright, decent and honorable men. But to say that the US Constitution “parallels God’s Commandments” – this is outright deception and so harmful!!

    Please be aware of the terrible confusion this causes.

    America is not Christianity – and Christianity is not America.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  95. Azaniah Jan 21st 2013

    The prophecies regarding guns and Christians is spot on!
    The prophecies about America being Babylon…spot on!
    All one needs to do is read Revlestion 18 without the glasses of patriotism, and one will see that there is no other country which fits the description described to the Apostle John…
    The angel whispered to him, “”come out of her my people and be ye separate”…separate begins in the MIND and those too attached to Babylon will not only be disappointed….but also perhaps meet their demise!
    Thanks Andrew!

  96. Duduman said all this so this is not “new information”.

    My calling is to stand in the Gap and reverse the situation from civil war to Holy Ghost Revival.

  97. Andrew Jan 21st 2013

    Would love to see it, Thomas.

    I pray it would be so.

    Bless you, my friend!

    Andrew

  98. Daniel Jan 21st 2013

    Richard Sal.
    please reread what i wrote; i stated usa doesn’t speak up in Ez about the nations going against the Jews…….i was meaning if usa was a powerhouse and for jews….why not speaking……..so usa not a powerhouse………..or against jews………obama ways……
    there is a metion in v13 of young lions questioning, some think this could be a dethrone usa; i don’t know……..
    as to if we in the end NO; they come agaisnt a land very wealthy and safe with no guards at gates……………..they aren’t rich, or safe right now……….so either gold/oil or something going to be found in Jews land B4 the end can start.

    in senior care places, and hospitals; it is a unspoken practice if patient has no insurance, there time is up; or if insurance about to run out patients die just B4 hand; meds are given for this. they do tests to see what organs are weak and ‘work death’ that way.
    obamacare is 100% this; that is why some ins. companies for it; cause can ‘cut their loses’ sooner.

    all nations can be God’s nations if they chose to line up with Him.
    look at what Russia is doing; they have laws agaisnt gays, and ads, information coming into nation that is pro gays…………isn’t that a form of godlyness? won’t/can’t they be blessed for standing agaisnt sin?!!??
    to bad usa isn’t there today……….pray we repent.

  99. harvestistipe Jan 22nd 2013

    Azaniah,I too see as you do, you are right about America being Babylon, Her cup is full of Abominations and the shaking is here, the church first and then the nations.I agree Americas demise is prophecied in Revelation 18, please take note when this happens she will never rise again.

    I actually look for this to happen a little further into the Tribulation. One reason America has to be taken down and her guns removed and her military so downsized which Obama is in the process of doing and putting us under the thumb of the United Nations.

    Gods word says For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”

    We saints are to have nothing to do with the darkness of this nation, Praise God we do have another kingdom. our part is to be his true witnesses.

    If you read the whole chapter it is clear we are not to be sad over her demise, So picking up our guns in defence of her, killing for her servival, could perhaps be in rebellion to God.

    I know these are hard words, but if I am spiritually seeing and hearing the truth here, America having become Babylon and God is saying to come out of her fornication and sins, then would it not be much wiser to be about Gods business and reaching as many as he gives us for the gospel. our focus needs to be in the right place.

    I know I am a Patrio at heart who loved the country I had grown up in with five generations of christians, on my fathers side and four on my mothers side, saved for 50 some years but I do not even recognize America as the country I grew up in ,I am now in my 60s. and actually can no longer recognize the church I grew up in, signs of the times.

    So having a gun for hunting or in times of defending our family from one who would harm your wife or children, I may need to be changed by the Lord for I see it is wise in a situation like that.

    However we must also keep in mind if one were to break in to rob you, we are to give them the shirt off our backhe has come to stael and even our coat, but what if we told him he could have our money what he wanted of our possessions because we do not want him leaving as a thief whom came to steal from us what if we told him Jesus had a greater plan for his life and he could set him fre from the chains that have him bound ,help him out of his troubles,so we freely give to him, sound crazy that is what my grandson and i were talking about today and we both believed God would protect us in such a situation. we both believed this man would leave differant than he came. may even insist he take our bible.

    It is good for us to begin to think these things through, and to seek to encourage one another, to settle it in our minds and of course ask God what he would have us to do in every area of our lives.
    Blessings.

  100. Christian journalist Jan 22nd 2013

    President Obama has told our British Prime minister David Cameron that the UK must not leave the European Union.
    Leaders outside of the UK are saying that referendum to remain or leave the EU should not go ahead.
    British people are being warned about voting to leave the EU.
    Man made stories are being made up to influence the situation and that we should remain with Brussels ands forget our independence and the British Constitution.
    The UK this year are expected to receive a huge influx of immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria because EU dictates say so. They can claim benefits and to be housed without questions made, given, and whether the UK can afford it.
    Our PM is going ahead with same sex marriages which the majority of the British population do not support or accept. We Brits are told to accept the austerity cuts for the poor, the disabled and pensioners while huge bonuses are still being paid to bankers, mangement who contol the country’s finances, pay for inflated salaries to Members of Parliament, with the rich becoming richer and the poorer becoming poorer for the sake of greedy rich people.
    Greed rules the hearts of many and it is going from bad to worse.
    British companies are being taken over by foreign institutions and promises are being broken by them to keep the work ethic in the UK. Instead, workers are being made redundant and production and administration are being outsourced to the Asian continent using cheap labour with profits being diverted to their country of origin with the profits being given too.
    The British public has been conned in the name of private foreign enterprise whereby prices in using untilities such as gas, electricity, and water have increased dramatically and huge profits made are being diverted away from the UK and subsidising customers in the country of origin.
    This can be seen with companies such as Honda, Kraft, EDF Energy, E-on, and so forth.
    One of the jewels in the crown was Thames Water, with 8.5 million water customers, 100 water treatment plants, 290 pumping stations and 235 reservoirs. In 2001, it was snapped up by Germany’s RWE, one of Europe’s largest power utilities.
    Thames profits had soared by 30 per cent to £346 million — helped by a 21 per cent price rise for customers. Yet that the company’s pipes were in such a bad state of repair they were leaking 196 million gallons a day.
    The German owners did little to address the problem. This became a scandal in the serious drought of 2006, when customers were banned from watering lawns and washing cars.
    The Daily Mail revealed that the five men controlling Britain’s most wasteful water company were paid £20 million a year. And while the average Thames customer’s bill was £265 a year, residents of the chief executive’s hometown — Laren in Germany — paid well under half that amount for a first-class modern network
    This makes interesting reading…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20559791
    See this as well
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/9814821/Foreign-companies-face-UK-tax-investigation.html
    Not to mention this link
    http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/features/1146256/buying-britain/
    The British christian church is in turmoil and disarray and this is reflected with the Anglican Church. For the bishops of the Church of England have agreed to allow homosexual bishops in leadership and later on this year there has been called at the next General Synod meeting, by many members in the CoE, clergymen and laymen, to allow women bishops as well.
    There are many warnings for the summer of 2013, which in the UK, riots will appear on the streets of major cities. And why? This is due to hign unemployment of its young people who are without jobs, and not being able to live, because their basic benefits have been cut by the government while the rich are becoming richer due to government legislation.
    Greed rules in government circles and other institutions, while in the church system, false teachers and prophets are considered the anointed ones who use the prosperity doctrine and other erroneous doctrines to mislead and control christians for their own selfish purposes – and its is getting worse!
    The judgement of Almighty God is already here within the Church and is upon Great Britain.
    Like with what is happening in America, the same is happening in GB, with no let up. And for the Christian Church to play ignorance to the situation, is done at their peril.
    Marantha!

  101. Christian journalist Jan 22nd 2013

    President Obama has told our British Prime minister David Cameron that the UK must not leave the European Union.
    Leaders outside of the UK are saying that referendum to remain or leave the EU should not go ahead.
    British people are being warned about voting to leave the EU.
    Man made stories are being made up to influence the situation and that we should remain with Brussels ands forget our independence and the British Constitution.
    The UK this year are expected to receive a huge influx of immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria because EU dictates say so. They can claim benefits and to be housed without questions made, given, and whether the UK can afford it.
    Our PM is going ahead with same sex marriages which the majority of the British population do not support or accept. We Brits are told to accept the austerity cuts for the poor, the disabled and pensioners while huge bonuses are still being paid to bankers, mangement who contol the country’s finances, pay for inflated salaries to Members of Parliament, with the rich becoming richer and the poorer becoming poorer for the sake of greedy rich people.
    Greed rules the hearts of many and it is going from bad to worse.
    British companies are being taken over by foreign institutions and promises are being broken by them to keep the work ethic in the UK. Instead, workers are being made redundant and production and administration are being outsourced to the Asian continent using cheap labour with profits being diverted to their country of origin with the profits being given too.
    The British public has been conned in the name of private foreign enterprise whereby prices in using untilities such as gas, electricity, and water have increased dramatically and huge profits made are being diverted away from the UK and subsidising customers in the country of origin.
    This can be seen with companies such as Honda, Kraft, EDF Energy, E-on, and so forth.
    One of the jewels in the crown was Thames Water, with 8.5 million water customers, 100 water treatment plants, 290 pumping stations and 235 reservoirs. In 2001, it was snapped up by Germany’s RWE, one of Europe’s largest power utilities.
    Thames profits had soared by 30 per cent to £346 million — helped by a 21 per cent price rise for customers. Yet that the company’s pipes were in such a bad state of repair they were leaking 196 million gallons a day.
    The German owners did little to address the problem. This became a scandal in the serious drought of 2006, when customers were banned from watering lawns and washing cars.
    The Daily Mail revealed that the five men controlling Britain’s most wasteful water company were paid £20 million a year. And while the average Thames customer’s bill was £265 a year, residents of the chief executive’s hometown — Laren in Germany — paid well under half that amount for a first-class modern network
    This makes interesting reading…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/9814821/Foreign-companies-face-UK-tax-investigation.html
    Not to mention this link
    http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/features/1146256/buying-britain/
    The British christian church is in turmoil and disarray and this is reflected with the Anglican Church. For the bishops of the Church of England have agreed to allow homosexual bishops in leadership and later on this year there has been called at the next General Synod meeting, by many members in the CoE, clergymen and laymen, to allow women bishops as well.
    There are many warnings for the summer of 2013, which in the UK, riots will appear on the streets of major cities. And why? This is due to hign unemployment of its young people who are without jobs, and not being able to live, because their basic benefits have been cut by the government while the rich are becoming richer due to government legislation.
    Greed rules in government circles and other institutions, while in the church system, false teachers and prophets are considered the anointed ones who use the prosperity doctrine and other erroneous doctrines to mislead and control christians for their own selfish purposes – and its is getting worse!
    The judgement of Almighty God is already here within the Church and is upon Great Britain.
    Like with what is happening in America, the same is happening in GB, with no let up. And for the Christian Church to play ignorance to the situation, is done at their peril.
    Marantha!

  102. Bro. Andrew, Friends Brethren.
    I am surprised and often dismayed at the number of folk who sincerely post, it seems to me exhibiting a preoccupation with anti-Christ, the beast, war, Babylon, great sin, immorality, the decline/destruction of the west, enemy invasions (even guns, civil war,) as we see above, not omitting great global tribulation. All of which are identifiable as tangibles.
    Without going into detail the “takes” on these are many and varied, this should not be so! For my Bible, and I am sure yours also, says no scripture is of any PRIVATE interpretation and we should avoid disputations that engender division rather than edification. I also freely admit that first I, then any one else if in error need to be corrected.
    Andrew what we need is sound teaching on all Christian matters, e.g. your book and article on the sinner’s prayer -

    http://www.revivalschool.com/%E2%80%9Cask-jesus-into-your-heart%E2%80%9D/

    - is great testimony and sound teaching on salvation and in particular the struggle that may entail the individual in the acceptance of just such sound teaching (I when I first heard of this in 1965 assumed my parents were grown too old and senile) Only my little faith in Gods word, the new life testimony of my now united parents, and a new intense study of this subject in the Word, with much earnest prayer on the lines of please save my deluded parents – I wanted to prove them wrong and “rescue” them. How zealously wrong can we be? This was one of the most difficult times in my life, Thank God my understanding did change, brought me to my knees before God and opened the way to be baptized and filled with the Spirit. When I ask myself “why was I in this limbo of what I now know was as an unsaved, anti-Christ view and state – for even though I had a “belief” in God it was not according to knowledge, first of all I blame myself, certainly not God. Secondly false prophets, pastors, teachings. Ezekiel 34 – please do not tell me this only applies to OT Israel- as it also includes the many Jesus said “shall come in my name and deceive many”

    Andrew my earnest desire is this salvation doctrine be accepted, promoted with all love and zeal, it is fundamental. I know that the vast majority of folk I talk to out side of the fellowship I attend, have no idea of this prime NT teaching. I suspect that this is true of some also who post here! There are many who desire to be teachers and do not know, or accept this teaching. Do I condemn them NO, for I was once as them. And what condemned me was His Word, not those who spoke it to me.
    As Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3 6 “…are you a teacher in Israel and do not know this” He went on to say this was an earthly knowledge “how then can I tell you of heavenly things” If the foundation is false the building can not stand, both must be torn down and the foundation rebuilt before a person can begin a genuine walk with God.
    I believe we will not see genuine Christian revival anywhere, unless we make this our cornerstone message for the lukewarm church “…….I counsel you to anoint your eyes with eyesalve……” Rev 3:18
    My prayer is that our Lord will lay this on the hearts of those who love Him.
    That we all may be revived as Ezekiel 34 men and women.
    Love to you all
    Pr Michael

  103. Wow these prophecies almost line up with the Elijah list Prophets. They all now say (because circumstances are now obvious) that war or ‘bad times’ are coming to America,…but don’t worry folks because America will be healed and good times will come again. Look, I live in the USA and I love my Country deeply but I know the heart of my Nation and it is not going to turn. I will never stop professing truth to all who will listen, but I know the truth. Right now in our Country not only do we have FEMA camps, but also states are now passing guillotine laws, which line up with Biblical Prophecy that those who would not take the mark or worship the beast or his image would be beheaded (something no one would have though in this day and age). Our Supreme court has also been informed by Joe Biden that they will rule on the micro chip and it application wether they like it or not, you can see the conversation on youtube (the executive dictators now rule America) I wish the Bible said that Babylon the great harlot was going to turn and be healed but she isn’t. On one hand I am glad that my grandchildren and great grandchildren aren’t going to have to face what is coming and I wouldn’t wish this on them or anyone else. I tell you the truth, this year you will see Obama rise to such power that the World will say of him, “this is not President Obama, but King Obama”, and oddly they will warm to the idea because he will seem to make so many things right in their eyes. Tyranny will rise to a new level in the United States, there will even be TSA check points on the road where they will check your papers the way they did in Nazi Germany, and the TSA will be at sports events, ‘houses of worship’, high school proms, and many other events. America will see drone surveillance and attacks on their own soil this year as well as US troops violating posse comitatus laws, which will begin the civil war you are speaking of. American Sheriffs, state troopers, and military who have joined the Oath Keeprs movement will not help the US Govenment in it’s attempt to subdue the people. There are many more things I could say about this, but this is alot already.
    I know that Jeremiah told the Israelites not to resist Nebuchadnezzar, but the Bible says to Christians in modern Babylon, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues. Soon Americans who had wealth, comfort, and security will have none of those things as many become refugees to other Nations, although many also will move to other Nations with favor I do know this is true and they should remember their brethren who are not so fortunate. Sadly many will be left in America when the Nukes hit, because they would not come out. And it is the truth I am not lying, nukes will hit, and not just two or three. The devastation will be unbelievable. And Babylon will have fallen, do not misunderstand me, I do not want this happen, I am grieved that it will happen I have lived in my Country all my life I have hiked and hunted the mountains, deserts, plains, I have fished and camped at the rivers, lakes and streams, and I love my Country. I have been in amazing Church revivals, and have shared my life with many amazing Christians, and God has blessed me with such a beautiful Christian family,…again,..I love my Country. So do not think it gives me any kind of pleasure to tell you what is to come to pass about the loss of my Country. However when we look at revelation 18:20 we might want to consider if this is a request or a command. I love my Country, I love my family, and I love my Church,…but I love God more, and we as Christians are entrusted with the most valuable commodity in the universe, mor valuable than gold, silver, or even platinum, and that commodity is the Word of the living God. His Word will come to pass and because of that their is an even greater war in America now and that is to win as many souls as possible before the terrible day comes to America. I tell you the truth, the last revival in America will be amongst a people that would be blessed to appear as if they they only had the black plague, but it will be one of the greatest times of repentance and turning to God America has ever seen…All that but Babylon the Great harlot will not rise not ever again.

  104. Peter H Jan 22nd 2013

    Michael –
    while you and I would like believers and brother Andrew to preach the Gospel message and seek His revival, the revival in which christians who watch christian tv channels are receiving is in fact a false and non biblical revival organised and manufactured by man.
    Christians are being bombarded with false prophecies that 2013 is the year for revival and yet there has been a falling away. 2012 was promised by those involved to be revival as with many previous years beforehand. Reinard Bonnke, Morris Cerullo, Benny Hinn, and other WoF preachers have declared this on christian tv and yet nothing has happened. And those involved of the Bay of the Holy Spirit Revival who are currently on tour are promoting this big time everywhere they go. Nothing has happened.
    May I suggest that brethren see this link on God TV
    http://www.god.tv/revivalalert/day-1
    The USA is being judged as well as with the American Christian Church.
    And why?
    It is what Andrew has already shared in the topic.
    Christian journalist expresses why and with other comments mentioned.
    Get ready for what is coming, and be prepared!

  105. God has released blue prints for revival in the United States, such as the 7 Mountains mandate, transformation of society, establishing righteousness in government and media. How the Lord has wanted to raise up His people to lead in these fields and spread truth.

    Potential extremes of dominion theology is not an excuse to reject the purity of the message (that servants like Wallnau bring)

    We need to stand together. If the body of Christ is disunited then the door is open for polarisation in the nation.

    There is hope, the Lord has an answer for America. The more we continue to seek His face, the more people with a dream on their heart for God (to establish His kingdom in marvellous ways) are going to be effective and souls will be saved and discipled.

  106. Andrew Jan 22nd 2013

    Those things are sadly not “Revival” my friend

    Revival begins with a deep cleansing of the hearts of men.

    All else is waste and distraction

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  107. Marianne Merwick Jan 22nd 2013

    In all the ‘advice’ given I have not read anyone saying – pray, seek the Lord by doing His will, ask what you are to do and listen to Him!
    “My sheep hear My voice. The voice of another they will not follow.”
    If you are not hearing the Lord’s voice maybe you are not His sheep and you better read His Word and find out.
    If people do things because Andrew or anyone else says it is a good idea – that is not faith. “Without faith it is impossible to please God.”
    Don’t do anything without hearing from God!!! Each person must hear His voice for himself. What God wants you to do is perhaps not what He wants me to do. Let us quit this ‘herd’ mentality that you learn from the ’4 walls of the church’! If you belong to the Lord Jesus Christ guaranteed He knows your name and knows where you live. He knows how to contact you and He is not too busy.
    Folks, humble yourself to realize that you are not too busy to spend time with the Creator of the Universe – develop a prayer life every day. Know this – God is humble – He humbles himself to look at us.
    He also resists the proud, but He gives grace to the humble.
    Look, in this time of judgment it is time to please the Lord – not stir up His anger and fury.
    Luke 21:36 “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” KJV

  108. Beautiful words from JOB………………admist the harshest
    of his sufferings……………HE said
    THOUGH the LORD slay me STILL i serve HIM.
    In other places in psalms
    One says……………IT was GOOD i was afflicted………….before i was
    affliected i went astray.
    THe churches have long waxed luke warm as a whole
    and we now see the greatest falling away
    from the true faith…………………with all false religions
    coming under the mindset of the ONE false religion
    which unites all religons………………the new age
    of all roads lead , all faiths lead.
    and all in the name of peace and unity.
    REMEMBER the words of OUR LORD
    when he spoke to the LUKEWARM church……….
    You are rich, you have all this……………
    YET YOU ARE POOR……………
    I counsel thee to buy of ME GOLD tried in the FIRE.
    THAT is persecutions…………….THAT YE MAY BE RICH.
    LOOK at what he tells the second church…………
    You are poor, ye have tribulations etc……….BUT YOU ARE RICH.
    GET THIS MINDSET.
    THE PROSPERITY GOSPLE , IS FALSE.
    its leaders are under the guise of satan.
    THE far right is being used of the devil. TO get the upriseings
    NEEDED for the left and world agenda to set the snare
    and set up rfid………….
    Let us ask the simple questions………..
    HOW LONG has america prosperity gosple christains
    been focused on easy life and more money prophecies?
    TOO LONG.
    HOW long have heartfelt christains prayed for america.
    ONE on here , a JUANITA is 84 yrs old.
    ask her how long they have been praying for this nation to COME to GOD and forsake all else. LONG , LONG Time
    IS america and her churches getting more GODLY
    or WORSE………….
    WORSE people. MUCH worse , specailly the last ten to five years. THUS judgemnt is NOW COMING.
    WIN souls……………………..preach the gosple………….
    FOCUS on that. ANd may all seek the LORD with
    the WHOLE heart. Yall think gay marriage is getting accepted is ONLY here in america……………TIS worldwide.
    SO too is this concept of WORLD PEACE and UNITY.
    HOW many would take seriously the warning
    IF i TOLD you that TIME IS SHORT…………………
    THAT The coming of the LORD draws nigh……….
    THAT the end is nigh.
    THEN GO look at noAHS days and LOTTS
    NOT many did then either. WE in the last days……..
    and it aint just america……………THIS IS WORLD WIDE.
    GO to a church or even here………………and proclaim
    THE COMING of the LORD draws nigh………….
    JUDGMENT is coming. HOW many will take this call
    serious…………..? VERY few……….
    most ask me……………..HOW can you say the time is short.
    I SAY HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THE SIGNS…..
    JESUS said he would return in days like LOTTS and NOAHS.
    MOST people, even though who profess JESUS
    mock when one says the COMING draws nigh.
    YET the early CHURCH lived and said this to be………..
    THE LAST generation………….WONT……………
    AND we are IN THAT GENERATION.

  109. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    What does the word revival mean ?
    Allow me to suggest to bring back to life that what is dead.
    (To revive a person requires a “shock” or “jump start” to get the heart beating again)

    Revival is coming to the Western nations to bring back repentance, holiness, and stern obedience to Jesus, the written word, and Holy Spirit.
    In addition to put to the test and show the false teachings of antinomianism, gnosticism, dispensationalism, and humanism that has corrupted the teachings of Christ and the apostles.

    Revival is not about “saving souls” – history shows that. Its about turning “luke warm” Christians to “on fire” daily cross carrying disciples that deny themselves and follow Jesus (and hate their own life without cursing other people and G_D).
    That is revival.

    Civil war is coming to America but so is G_D. This will be a redemptive act and a person is spiritually poised is rested in Christ (easier said than done).

    My pastor out of San Diego (Robert Thompson) said revival was coming to American and it would be in the midst of blood and tribulation. I believe it.

    I see this as a battle between the spiritual titans(Christ vs AntiChrist) blow for blow ie “nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom”. G_d will also use this to purify His church and separate the wheat from the chaff of the lukewarm and the disciples.

    I addition, with US backing gone. Israel will be bitterly persecuted and have to stand and fight for herself.

    The common thread between the elect Jews and the elect disciples of Christ is righteous, holiness, and stern obedience to the word of G-d (this is we used as a witness of Christ to the elect Jews).

    Btw, the “highest calling/privilege for any disciple of Christ is the badge of martyrdom.
    They will be given a crown a life and I believe a “go the front on the line and VIP treatment on the First Resurrection of the Just.

    It is the highest privilege in the Kingdom to give ones life for the sake of the gospel / Kingdom (please meditate on this).

    Shalom

  110. So does
    Kenny Atnip (Jan 2013)-”Some time ago God showed me… ”
    Actually believe the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were wrong for fighting against the Nazi government as depicted in the film “The Wall”. With 200,000+ already destroyed, I’d say it was about time. Just because God allows evil governments does not mean we are to stand by and allow the slaughter of the innocents and say “Oh well, God will sort it out in the end!”
    Jesus told his disciples there is a time for swords and then he also specifically rebuked violence in the garden.
    So one size does not fit all situations.
    Government in the USA is to be “Of the People, By the People and For the People.” Thus we are the government and the non-representatives need to be sent home and replaced by those who honor our constitution and God’s law.

  111. I believe this is a true word and a true warning. I have been hearing it from other sources as well- all saying the same thing.

    May we prepare our hearts!
    May our lives give glory to Jesus Christ- and be vessels of His life, love, mercy and truth to those around us.
    May we have grace, boldness and power to stand in the evil day!

  112. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    Dont forget about the sacrifice of Detrich Bohnhoeffer….

  113. Corey Thomas Jan 22nd 2013

    At this point in the conversation, I highly doubt the probability of anyone reading this far down the page. That being said, I think it should be pointed out, that these “Prophecies” aren’t being discussed openly until now, the moment of truth, when theres a 50/50 chance of it being true or not. I dont believe Jeremiah or Elijah would have waited to say something of such importance. So I say either these are prophecies drawn from the imagination, or they are prophecies from someone with little faith.

    Moving on, the United States of America is not “mystery babylon”. The spirit of babylon rests in the US most definately, as it does in the rest of the world. It may have a greater following in the US but “mystery babylon” is a city much older than the US is.

    In Luke Chapter 13:33 Jesus (talking to the pharisees) said “In any case I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day – for surely no prophet can die outside jerusalem.” In verse 35 He says “Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say ‘blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord.’ ”

    In Matthew Chapter 23:31,32,35,37, 38 Jesus again talking to the pharisees “So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!”
    “And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariahson of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.”
    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate.”

    Revelations 17:5-6
    “The name written on her forehead was a mystery: babylon the great mother of prostitutes and abominations of the earth. I saw the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.”

    Revelations 18:24
    “In her was found the blood of prophets and of Gods holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

    America is probably going into civil war, but it is not babylon. Mystery Babylon is a real city, Jesus called it Jerusalem. The capitol city of the most anti-christ country in the world. They rejected the Father over and over again throughout the old testament, they crucified the Son, they murdered the Prophets, and they reject Christ today. There is a new Jerusalem coming, because the old one will not be standing any longer. Israel, the United States, the UK, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, etc etc… Every single person in every single country in the world, need Jesus Christ or they will parish. Under the new covenant of the Blood Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the old covenant is fulfilled.

    I pray that God send revival to the United States, and send revival to the world, to bring us to our knees in repentence. For furthering the antichrist mindset, for not standing for truth when the opportunity came our way, and for rejecting the words of Jesus Christ, and ignoring the teachings he gave. I pray the holy spirit cuts us to the heart, and calls us back to the Word of God.

  114. This is SA churches response to our situation. We are much like the USA only MUCH further down the road

    Dear Friends

    We ask for your serious en definite intercession for this meeting.

    CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP INDABA: 22-24 January, 2013
    Please join with us in prayer to support the 100 church leaders who are meeting this week from 22-24 January, 2013 to deliberate concerning the involvement of the Church in the affairs of South Africa.
    Pray for these leaders for wisdom, for circumcised ears to hear the Word of the Lord, for unity (one mind and one spirit), for courage to take a position of NO COMPROMISE, for a clear mandate to the Church in South Africa, for the Church to rise up as a prophetic voice to speak with prophetic insight through the revelation and unction of the Holy Spirit.
    Today we are living in a Kairos moment in our nation. We are approaching a point of decision many believe is as or more important than those turbulent and exhilarating times of the early 90′s.

    It’s time to decide. We need you to help us grab this moment!

    There is a restlessness amongst us. We have been shocked by tragedies such as Marikana and have experienced the outpouring of anger and violence in the agricultural community in the Cape. A new generation of post-Apartheid leaders are gaining influence. Ordinary South African’s are yearning for change and searching for hope and life. Hope and life are at the heart of the Gospel. It’s time that the church reclaimed its prophetic role in the nation. For far too long we have been divided, silent and complicit in things that are not of God.

    From January 22 to 24 the SACC, TEASA, AE and the Church Leaders Consultation are calling together less than 100 key Christian leaders, from all sectors of society, to begin a process of engagement and envisioning as we strategise a way forward for the church in South Africa. We aim to agree on the broad outlines of a sustainable process of unified Christian action by the end of the indaba. This will lay the foundations for a broad-based process in the future.

    We have already released an initial statement, “the church speaks… for such a time as this” but are convinced that our words need to be brought to life in relationship; relationship needs to blossom into united vision; and united vision should become sustainable action. Together as the church, working in partnership with all of society, we can make the difference.

    This is not an ordinary event. This is the beginning of a sustainable strategic process that will ensure we hear from God and one another. We will layout the challenges that face us and recommend a way forward that will lead us on a journey of increased relevance, healing and impact as the united body of Christ. We intend to discern what God is already doing as he raises up a new movement that will co-labour with him to bring abundant life to all South Africans and display His glory in the nation.

    Rest assured folk, it will NOT EVER include violence. Be Blesed – Ian

  115. Gaynor Jan 22nd 2013

    I read most of the 150 comments, and decided to write a little.
    About taking posession of guns or not.
    What did Yeshua (Jesus) tell his apostles to do, when He sent them out to evangelize? Did He not tell them to carry their swords, the most common weapon of that time, and if they did not have one to sell something they have, and buy one? They were to carry weapons to protect themselves from harm of others. In the Old Testament, God told man that if someone broke into their dwelling at night to harm their family, to kill them.
    Our constitution permits us to bear arms to protect ourselves from the government. In some states the law permits us to protect our property, and family from people that threaten harm to ourself or family.
    What did Peter do, when the soldiers came for Yeshua (Jesus) the night of his arrest? He drew his sword and cut one of the officers ear off. Remember. Yeshua did not tell him to get rid of his sword.
    People misunderstand the bible scriptures so much because they have been taught by other people, and do not study the word properly. Yeshua (Jesus) said you shall not murder. What is murder? If I go out to someone’s house, and kill him or his family or go to schools, or businesses and kill someone, I have commited murder. If I use my weapon to protect my family or myself from a person threatening our lives then I have killed a person, and this is what Yeshua (Jesus) referred to, when he told the Deciples to carry a sword with them.
    If our guns are taken, ONLY CRIMINALS will have guns. If you do not believe this, check what has happened in other countries. Also check what has happened to the crime rates when people are permitted to carry their guns verses where they are not armed.
    May Yeshua’s blessings and Shalom (Peace) be with you all.

  116. michelle d Jan 22nd 2013

    Daddy God… bring repentance… Daddy we have been doing what we thought was right… Bring repentance… We need repentance whatever it takes LORD… We have sinned alll our fathers have sinned… Lord we are before you ashamed of our fathers who spoke the things that were not right about you… Lord have mercy this country has been having mercy on the world… and like you LORD hated for it like Isreal… Daddy don’t let this come to pass… LORD we say no more… We must Stand here… Daddy someone must raise the standard… NO MORE… WE HAVE SINNED… ALL OUR FATHERS HAVE sinned… LORD BRING repentance BRING a spirit of hunger on this Country LORD WE NEED you…
    The CROSS is our statue of liberty… we have tried to bring your light before the world freedom… isn’t free… OUR young men and women have died in your HONOR becuse they belive in Freedom in GOD… JESUS paid for it on the cross… this Nation this People have been pointing to that CROSS all these years… God Don’t cast us off with out hope… You said if a people called my name would humble themselves and pray… Daddy everyone i know is… BRING REPENTANCE… We repent… You would heal our land DADDY GOD bring repentance… OUR blood has been shed all over the world to honor your name one NATION UNDER GOD… and we have a generation that knows you not… DADDY GOD… We sent all the great preachers all over the world… Daddy PLEASE send us a Great move of your spirit… You are all tey ever needed DADDY GOD don’t let anymore children die with out you… Forgive us LOrd we have tried to help and feed the world… only for them to watch for our Halting DADDY… what is TRUTH we want TRUTH… We where born in Blindness with the BLIND leading the BLIND… woes me LORD I Can’t not bare it…GOD we have shown mercy every where we GO… IN the WORLD… LORD SHOW US MERCY or we find none in the earth… THe EARTH waits on our halting DADDY… as THEY Wait for ISREALS Halting DADDY DADDY… Please…don’t let us be destroyed with out … REVIVAL…
    LORD WHATEVER it TAKES… Bring MERCY… DADDY Don’t let them die with out you…ALL they need is JESUS… YOU are all we ever needed one NATION UNDER… JHOVAH… YESHUA… Let YESHUA receive this generation… MAY WE REPENT EVEN THIS WHOLE NATION… WHATEVER IT TAKES… UNITED… ONE NATION UNDER JHOVAH… GOD… Bring forth mercy… JUDGEMENT BEGINS at the HOUSE OF GOD… DADDY SEND THE SPIRIT OF REPENTANCE… Whatever it takes… LORD IN WRATH REMEMBER MERCY… THe PEPLE OF THIS COUNTRY PAY TO FEED THE WORLD OUT OF EVERY PAY CHECK>> and send more missionaries beside… How many would of been SAVED if we wouldn’t of went to Preach…The GOSPEL… When GOD said GO into all the world… WE WENT… From all over this NATION… We are still going… still sending… still paying… wait our CHILDREN and GRANDCHILDREN WILL PAY THE DETB all of their lifes if we stop 2day… GOD… THANK you FOR BLESSING us and giving a nation the privelge to give… BUT DADDY we NEED you… we NEED the GREATEST REVIVAL the WORLD has EVER SEEN… the greatest PREACHERS and REVIVALISTS in WORLD TO COME HOME>>> DADDY GOD OUR CHILDREN ARE DIEING WITH OUT YOU… DADDY we are such a young NATION… PLEASE DON”T LET US DIE without YOU! We have possesed it just a little while… WE HAVE sent our best PREACHERS all over the world and we have been left with the rest… Becuase THE FIRE went unto the ENDS of the EARTH that souls would be saved… HAVE MERCY LORD…
    BELOVED MERCY

  117. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    @Gaynor – thank you for the insight. It rings of truth.
    Paul defended himself against robbers.
    There is vast difference between murder and defense. The Hebrew text supports this.
    As it stands the Constitution allows for freedom of speech, religion, and bear arms.
    In review of what has occurred the current President has gone “rogue”.

    This is against “the highest level” of law ( Constitution law “rule the field” or in other words surpasses city, county, state, and federal). To change those – Constitution law has to be changed.

    John the Baptist pointed out when Herod broke the law – this is not slander or speaking evil. It is a very very simple statement of fact – ” what you are doing is not lawful ” (Matt 14:4)
    - The taking of guns in not lawful.
    - The forced indoctrination of children is not lawful.
    - Censorship is not lawful.
    - Religious / moral censorship is not lawful.
    - Support and taxation of frivilous divorce is not lawful.
    - Forced to provide medical insurance / anti-contraceptive is not lawful.

    What is important is NOT TO FRET (ie Psalm 37 & 73).

    War, tribulation, famine and blood shed will occur on soil. It has happened to every other country – it would appear it will occur during our life time and our children. However. the Rule of G_D is coming (These are really glorious times – Really !!!)

    The American dream is one big lie – set your mind / imaginations on things above (Col 3). Christ is in control and sits as ruler of the flood.

    Shalom !!

  118. carson Jan 22nd 2013

    whose fighting and what are they attempting to retain? They think to return to the constitution, but, to return to the constitution would require righteous leaders and a righteous peoples.
    Proverbs-when the righteous laws are on the books the people rejoice?..no, when the righteous rule, the people rejoice. Think about it.
    So war, win, new boss same as the old boss. To have the constitution with the leaders and people remaining apart from Christ and worsening as people of the world are they’ll end up back at the beginning, probably even worse.

    Having good laws written down for a bad and lawless peoples will never work, we have that now, and above it we have the Word…

    only God granting faith in Christ can make men righteous/having Christ’s righteousness, and faith comes by hearing, and the gospel has the power of salvation and inward change which effects any outward thing on down the line and the fields are ripe the workers few.

    consider what a major revamping it’d be to return to the constitution, you can’t forget the un wto wb imf nato nafta and other central banking bis derivatives globalism the mic and much much more. It shows how long and far this all has been going on. Which also brings up time, what time is it? God’s timeline? Not of darkness that we are unawares, what ought we to be about doing.

  119. Serenity Jan 22nd 2013

    God gave me a Christmas present. He led me to the site where Ken Peters was sharing his dream from the Lord, given to him in 1980, but not released to others until 2000.

    For those humble and openhearted enough to listen to that 1hr 36 mins or 2hr 21 mins telling of that dream, … God is speaking very clearly about where we are at in history.
    Above all, we must be ready for the Lord to come and take us whenever He calls.
    Of course we are to be in fellowship with Him each day, winning and encouraging souls, etc.
    Get rid of the tv – it is watching you.

    If we walk under the shadow of the Almighty, then by His grace we may escape the beheading coming to those who refused to walk close to Him.
    ‘Pray that you may prevail to escape ALL these things that are coming’ …Luke 21 : 34 – 36.

    Ken Peters I Saw the Tribulation. God bless each one.

  120. I was born here, saved here and chosen to have the opportunity to know Christ as Lord, savior and dearest friend. In the letter to the church at Philadelphia, I believe that we are coming to the chronological statement ‘I will keep you from the hour of testing’ intended for the generation who fought in the in second world war. As I write, my father foresees his final days and my father-in-law was admitted to the hospital for severe chest pains as his health continues to diminish. They speak of Christ”s return, but I think they speak of their departure. My dreams and the dreams of my 18 year old daughter tell a different story. I have been teaching her how to ‘hide the light in her eyes’. Why? Because that hour of testing is coming upon the whole world. But I ask you, are we Israel or are we Babylon? Or is the church in America Israel within Babylon? If many are carried off into captivity, then we are both. Should I fear the opportunity to walk with God. I don’t desire a throne nor do I seek a pillar erected in this temple with my name on it. Times will become dark and already are. Many of us here in America have tasted every fruit, both good and evil and have learned to discern the subtle distinction and understand spiritual death. Why is it going to be so dark? Because when that which was light becomes darkness, how great is that darkness’. I see the Holy Spirit bringing the True and Faithful witnesses to the love and hope that He opened a door for. The city of brotherly love. Babylon sweeps across every mountain and turns it into a hill. Our time has come? Well so it was with Sampson and Alexander the Great. Desolations are decreed. The harvest of one will be the seed for the next as the Spirit of Christ moves eat to west. My generation, I’m 46, has suffered terribly from what the post war assassinations and betrayals brought in from the east. I know pain. I know brokenness; Demonic oppressions, possessions, divorce and addictions-and redemption. I have no love or hate for the idols of America. They are no gods at all. I see what God is doing in this next generation. There are millions like me; men and woman whose children heard truest love, not when we spoke of things but of the love of Jesus Christ. Where Gods judgment is being poured out; God is. Ask Jeremiah or Daniel. Was it difficult? I am were God wants me to be and He loves me. Some of us will even have the opportunity to overcome as Christ did and share His Father’s throne. Remember, America wasn’t founded on the desire to rule the world but the desire to leave the old world and be separated to Christ. Will we once again cry out as in earlier days? And God will here us? Yes, and may there be hundreds or even thousands of Jonathon Edwards. But there is something I’ve noticed about this next generations. God is moving in our sons, but our daughters? In many, I see the desire and the going wherever God leads them, with amazing fearless joy. God reproves and disciplines those He loves. Am I bragging? No. I’m a father. I understand what He means. ‘Gold refined by fire?’ Because God’s judgment falls on us doesn’t necessarily mean that the rest of you are doing better. We will have to face the truth, but this goes to the fundamentals of our birth. But when this happens to us, what will the rest of you assume about yourselves. Are you more Holy than us. Right now we are hot or cold, but we are not lukewarm. We are being judged but not spit out. If we suffer a desperate winter, does that make you righteous? Pray for us an I will pray for you. But don’t allow God’s indictment of us lead you to misdiagnose the health of your own souls. It isn’t so difficult to see things clearly when judgment is at the door. I pray you search yourselves. I pray you’re doing better. I pray you are approved. But gaurd yourselves so that your approving of each other isn’t a new rendition of old Europe’s royal way or a younger churches arrogance. I feel His presence. I only want the Truth.

  121. fabakary Jan 22nd 2013

    Gaynor wrote:
    “About taking posession of guns or not.
    “What did Yeshua (Jesus) tell his apostles to do, when He sent them out to evangelize? Did He not tell them to carry their swords, the most common weapon of that time, and if they did not have one to sell something they have, and buy one? They were to carry weapons to protect themselves from harm of others. ”
    Friend it is not true, Jesus never sent his disciples to preach the gospel with swords. It was when he was about to be arrested in the garden , he was teaching them a lesson not to use physical weapons as a means of protection,he told them to buy sword and in that very incidence when they wanted to use the sword as a defense he told them “put up thy sword into his place: for all that take the sword shall perish with sword ” Mathew 26v52. Did you see how the lord view self protection by weapons ? he says those that live by it will perish by it.
    The truth is christ teaching can never be obey without christ , but many times we are so busy and have less time with christ ;and though we may know his teaching but because we have less time with him in devotion they becomes a burden hard to bear. Christ did not say by just knowing his teaching shall we have rest but by going to him. He is the giver of rest, the one to make the burden of his teaching light and lovely to our souls. Some of us had tasted this rest , but we have gone back , too busy with other things and have less time with christ , and so the teaching which were one a light burden have become a heavy burden. But How hard will it be for those among us who are still in the law of moses, who had never tasted anything of Christ rest, such kind of teaching about the pure love of christ will be indeed a great rock of offense, to the one in the law. If it is hard for those who were once in the rest through devotion and intimacy and because they have less time with christ now how hard will it be for those who have never tasted this rest ?

  122. The answer is simple, No matter what happens – Love God, love who He loves, & preach a biblical Gospel of the Kingdom till He comes.

    We need to experience the grace that Noah found, which enabled him to preach righteousness for 120 years through the greatest tribulation that the earth has ever experienced – till now. FIND THAT GRACE & endure, or perish.

    Kevin Piper

  123. Mark S. Jan 22nd 2013

    Hi all.
    There is a VERY strong “Submission To Authority” message in the prophicies Andrew quotes above and, without walking over what the bible does have to say on S.T.A., some here rightly question how far it should go.
    Suppose it does get VERY bad and a christian is arrested in America and asked to reveal the identities and locations of others in his church, knowing they face the same fate if he/she does.
    What does God expect of a christian in THAT situation? Submission to (compliance with) the authorities?
    Where is the scripture that forbids a christian to betray his brothers in that situation?
    Is it the same in heavily muslim / communist contries where christians face death / martyrdom if discovered by, or betrayed to, the authorities?
    What if it is God’s will that christians face martyrdom in that situation?
    What if a supposed will to protect our christian brothers and sisters and their children by witholding information from the authorities, even under duress, is actually rebellion in God’s sight?
    We need some more clearly defined limits here on S.T.A. in this prophetic context.
    Thanks
    Mark
    PS: I guess nobody is going to have me on their mission trip now!

  124. steve nixon Jan 22nd 2013

    There will be no Civil War

    Civil war? I don’t think so. America is too fragmented as a society to suddenly bind together in a common cause; even though a good one. Americans will do what they’ve always done concering her problems…gather around the water-cooler at work and rant and rave, and thats all. Bottom line: it’s all talk.
    That is, unless someone steps up as a charismatic and strong leader who is outspoken and organizes a following committed to actions. There is no such leader. And if one comes along he would have to unify the country, and that’s not possible because the press is controlled by the government, and the other form of communication is the internet (which the government can shut down in an instant).

  125. Graham P Jan 22nd 2013

    I happen to live in the United Kingdom where too long charismatic leaders have said that God was ( and is bringing in 2013) a world wide revival and that this revival for the UK will start in the churches here.
    They are self proclaimed teachers and prophets with large amounts of followers.
    It is the same in the USA.
    Well, you and I are still waiting but what we are experiencing is a falling away from the Word of God, the Lord Almighty’s instructions, and a GREAT DECEPTION with the abuse of scripture and heresy thrown in.
    For what has happened regarding their proclaimations of their false world wide revival? It is the worship of THE GOLDEN CALF with financial gain at the helm of doctrine resulting in GREED.
    REPENTANCE is a forgotten word and is bypassed by many of its leaders in the christian church.
    There will be no unity in the christian church as people are building their own (spiritual) empires to be exhorting amongst themselves and becoming Almighty God’s business managers using the name of Jesus as the process.
    But there is a difference and an opposite from the BODY OF CHRIST who follow the Lord Jesus Christ and not men. The Body of Christ is His who are not institution. The Bridegroom will wed His Bride soon without any shadow of doubt, and those within the christian church ignore the wedding invitations that have gone out and make excuses of not coming to the wedding, then it will be their own fault for not responding.
    I am meeting so called christians who dismiss the Rapture. They wallow is self rightousness and piety. While others are not preparing themselves as they are too busy with “other things.” And then there are those who are likely to endure the GREAT TRIBULATION as they have no time for Israel (replacement theology) and are deluded that they they taking towns and cities for Jesus without involving themselves in His Commission but keep talking about this to the effect that they keep themselves to themselves just like what cults and christian sects practice.
    So many are ingoring judgements of Almighty God and do as they please in His sight using the escape clause that they live under His Grace and are exempt from anything and His wrath.
    Believers are sharing that we are living in the Days of Noah and in the Days of Sodom and Gomorrah. I believe that to be so.
    The Holy Ghost is revealing this to those wishing to listen and act on the Word of God which is His manuel for living and prophectic.
    The gun situation has got out of hand what ever folk say in the defence of owning and having guns. The Lord Jesus Christ never owned a sword but used the Word of God given to Him by our Heavenly Father which is for the Body of Christ as well.
    If folk wish to go through the Great Tribulation then that will happen and the use of the gun, and other weapons, will be used for survival. But those opposing the Anti Christ and his henchmen will be wiped out too for the use of guns will have no affect on the Anti Christ, the coming world leader. He will reign for seven years and those are realise this at his inauguration and say no to him and the False Prophet, will pay the price for not having the Mark of the Beast.
    History is repeating itself and man does not learn from history. In the UK gun and knife culture dominate the youth of today who are driven into gangs for protection. Sleeping terrorist cells will awaken to use their weapontry when riots coming to our streets, due the economic and fanancial crisis emerging, will have devasting effect on the way we live and react.
    This is the tip of the iceberg of major events that will shape nations and the world.
    Which station will you be when the Lord Jesus Christ calls you Home?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtP3SmoJaYYme.
    Just listen to the song and the words sang…
    Are you in the ark or outside?

  126. steve nixon Jan 22nd 2013

    Fighting back?
    Guns and Ammo or Repentance?

    When the nation of Israel did right in God’s sight, then God blessed them with good, prosperity and peace through the directives of their human kings and leaders; and when the nation of Israel turned from God then God raised up evil kings that were a punishment to them, and foreign nations to dominate them. Therefore those who resist their leaders, resist the punishment of God. Those who resist God’s appointed chastisement will be dealt with by a more serious punishment or will be destroyed.
    Rom 13:1-7; “ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.”
    Only when a nation repents and returns to the ways of the Lord will that nation be blessed. Obama is not a good ruler who is blessing America; he’s an evil ruler in the hand of a punishing God, tearing down the ‘good things’ of God that made this nation strong because the nation has forsaken the right way, and did not hold dear those things of God it was given.
    When we are sick, does it make sense to ignore the cause and focus only on the symptoms? You must find the cause, and cause of America’s punishing administration is that the people have ceased from righteousness. They have ceased from training their children, the churches have long ceased from preaching the true message of the Gospel and the populace has ceased from standing up for Christian values or speaking out loud and clear against sin. It is easy to point out a ‘group fault’ or a ‘they’, ‘them’ as being the culprits who responsible for our backsliding as a nation. Easy to blame ‘the church’ in general. But the restoration of America as a Godly nation must begin with ‘I’, ‘me’; doing our part by showing our commitment to the Lord by speaking up in the home, at the workplace, or wherever we go. Be a voice for the Lord, and for His kingdom.

    Yes, if the government has its way, guns will be outlawed (and what a shame!) and eventually Christians will be killed…AS PROHESIED. So the question is; will we be willing to be as Jesus? Will we be willing to be led as a lamb to the slaughter? Will we be as those described in James 5:6; “Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.”?

    Yes! I think we should be outspoken. Christians were silent and we have abortion. Christians were silent and Christianity was banned from public and schools. Christians were not united and we have a muslim in the white house. Obama is not a president over a democracy, he is a socialist dictator of a morally and spiritually fallen nation. To be outspoken while you still can is a good thing…to write and call your politicians is a good thing; asking them to uphold not just the second amendment but EVERY amendment. But I don’t think it is a good idea to take up arms against the government.

  127. Thanks for sharing those words Andrew. They should encourage us all to prepare for the days ahead by drawing near to the Lord and walking in the Spirit and holiness

    I live in Australia. For the past few years i have been having dreams about this kind of stuff. My most recent was about drones targeting specific people to take them out, those who called on the Lord where protected. I also saw large concentration type camps where whole towns where commanded to check into. This was in a western country. When i awoke from this dream i felt disturbed as it seemed so real, I had to really seek the Lord for peace… Its time to forsake all for the Lord and walk with Him. Those who know their God in this hour will be strong and carry out great exploits.

  128. As I read your email and responses, I am reminded that there are countless times when the people of God were called to fight, as well as to submit. Unless the Lord has spoken specifically to someone concerning the crisis facing American Christians, then I believe it best to be quiet and pray!

    One of the greatest issues in our day, is the Biblical illiteracy in the church. I discovered this ministry due to the book “The Sinner’s Prayer.” After reading and researching (Acts 17:11), I absolutely believe that it is true.

    When America faced its first tyrannical ruler, England, it was the “Black Robes” who led from the front. America is in its current state economically and socially, because the church in America has failed to be the spiritual compass of our nation. I am specifically speaking of the men who stand behind our pulpits.

    I also am convinced that many in the church are wrong in their advocacy of pacifism. One of the major stumbling blocks for countless Christians is how the KJV translates Exodus 20:13, “Thou shall not kill.” This imprecise translation has propelled a pacifist ideology amongst several different faith groups. Later translations recognize that a more precise verb is murder. Noted Christian author, C.S. Lewis, expounds “All killing is not murder any more than all sexual intercourse is adultery.”

    Another misinterpreted Scripture is “whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also” (Matthew 5:39). Is Jesus talking about pacifism or martyrdom here, No! Recognize that Jesus specifically speaks of the “right cheek.” The only way a right handed person could slap someone on the right cheek, is to backhand them. Jesus is calling Christians to self-restraint when insulted; but certainly He is not licensing Christians to endure undue abuse.

    Matthew 26:52-54 is also a scripture that is often misrepresented, “Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?”

    Here we find Jesus chastising Simon Peter for cutting-off the ear of the high priest’s slave. Jesus was pointing out several things here: first, the Lord had to be taken in order to be crucified; second, He came to earth during this time as a sheep to be slaughtered; third, unlike ideologies similar to Islam, Christianity was not to be ‘enforced’ with fear, intimidation, and violence; and finally, Jesus was more than capable of calling upon His Father and eliminating anyone opposing Him. We recognize and honor His controlled restraint as meekness!

    Dr. Luke also validates that we are not called to pacifism. He quotes Jesus as saying, “whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The coat referred to here is their outer garments. Our Lord recognized the need to physically protect oneself from the dangers of this world, more than the extremes of our environment. Believing God would oppose a firearm in our day and age, is as valid as believing that verse 36 is a figment of Luke’s imagination.

    Concerning the ongoing dialogue about assault weapons and the size of a clip, look no further than the account of David and Goliath. David took up “five smooth stones” when he went out to meet the great Philistine, because there were four other giants in the land. It would be psychotic to imagine the other Israelites arguing that David selected too many stones.

    I am not sure if the motive of this ministry is to count the number of responses they can get, or if it is to have an honest dialogue to seek God’s mind on the matter. I hope and trust that it is the latter!

    In closing, I do apologize for the Christians here in America who have passionately expressed themselves in a manner that is nasty or bitter! I have read where you brought this up in two separate emails. For that – I do question your motive. Please continue to pray for the church in America, we certainly need it.

  129. Wow! so many different views…I myself am conflicted, kinda like how The Apostle Paul said (thru the Holy Spirit) Romans 7:25b….So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin…I have been thinking a lot on what has been leading up to the brakedown of the USA and the set up that has been right before our eyes on the news. with people on the left talking about killing NRA members to Sherifs saying they won’t allow a disarming to happen. Then I look at the church in the USA of the arrogance and pride and the money lovers of the namity claimity and then the portal,feather and gem lovers who run around to hear this anointed one speak and then threaten people who oppose them or those who won’t obey their false prophecies including falmily members who won’t go into ministry or go to the right church so can say they are right. with the impending doom that is goning to happen to the USA we will see the church get sifted like wheat and all of the false hopes get smashed to dust. all mega churches are going down the tubes. God will quickly prove the dominists wrong and then the mark o the beast..its in the health care bill and no one saw it..there is even propaganda comercials right now getting people ready for the lake of fire! instead of building the kingdom of God a lot of carnal christians have been busy building thier own kingdom… God help us! and please people keep your rhetoric to your self if you want to reply and tell me how wrong I am..I don’t care for spin or rhetoric its a sign of arrogance. my post, it is what it is..I just pray that I will hear from God on what to do, thats all nothing more nothign less..

  130. What should a an American Christian do if the government is unlawful, unconstitutional? How should justice be executed? If w allow the law breaking to go unchecked, are we just as guilty. We have history of people doing nothing and government takes over.

    America had long been a beacon of hope to people of all nations. Soon, if no change, complete dread and disgust.

    Did people think WWII was the end, and Hitler the Antichrist? What if this is just another stepping stone, not there yet?

    These are just questions I have.

    One point to make at least: innocent people suffer and due, and we can at least stand up, try what we can to rescue them, even though we die. Preach the Gospel, and stand against those who do injustice. Unborn babies, disabled, elderly are some major targets Obama has his guns on.

  131. This is all so true. I was at one time last year looking into joining the movement that planned to take over the government……….God said NO. I don’t vote, I don’t get involved in the world anymore than I have to such as shopping for food. I stay away and do what God says to do PRAY!!!!!………..that’s our job as christians………2 Chron 7:14 says so…………..why don’t more of us see that we are just pilgrims passing through? This isn’t our home…………? I pray that more and more of us will realize that our country is not here, that our government is GOD and we are safe within his protection. Thank you

  132. stephen boyce Jan 22nd 2013

    I watched a good documentary called blood red moon end time events by mark biltz who is a jew pretending to be a christian. He talks about these tetrads or blood red moon meaning the moon will turn blood red on 2 jewish festivals passover and tabernacles or Sukkot. this happens in 2014 2015 and in 2033 i read. last time this happened was in 1967,68 when israel got jerusalem 194748 when israel became a nation before that late 1400s when columbus discovered America and when the jews left Spain. this is a must

  133. Richard Kirby
    Thanks for your consideration but I didnt actually say I believed Clement – just something about him. There are very few I believe and I take all of the doom and gloom visions/prophecies with a healthy dose of skeptisism – but a clue is the rising price of gold and silver.
    The constitution is mentioned here many times – the writers were quite explicit in recommending that should a govt get out of line and exceed its legal obligations then the people have the right and obligation to remove it. Unfortunately in the current state of affairs such as we have in Australia as well, it is not now possible to remove a government unless it were done by force.
    Remember that your founding fathers inserted on purpose the second amendment which was ratified in 1796 (the original document having been adopted in 1787) only a few short years after the Mayflower landed – and many of those who followed the first settlers bore arms to defend themselves against the tyranny from England. Christians in fact!
    This led to the establishment of the United States and without the shedding of their blood the Constitution would never have been written

  134. I realize this nation has fallen away from the things of God, and as the leadership has abandoned God and His edicts, but many of His people have not. Where does my responsibility come into play in working with my neighbors to protect our community? I am thinking of the movie “Defiance” where the Hungarian Jews fought back against the Nazis….Where do we draw the line on tyranny? Do we turn around and run away, leaving others to fight for their lives? Do we stand silent as a mob ravishes our homes and loved ones?
    Or as our children are taken from us and put into government schools and day care? These are real questions of mine. I will fight to the death to protect my loved ones and use every ounce of force available to me at the time, if evil is breaking down my door? I know we must be awake and listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit to guide us.
    He may take us out of an area before destruction comes…Like Joseph and Mary before the slaughter of the innocents. But when He is silent I must rest on my convictions… Anyone comment please I want to know others’ thoughts.

  135. Thomast77 Jan 22nd 2013

    Andrew If I were you I would be more concerned about a Global Economic Collapse like the world has never seen. And it will come very soon.

  136. I too believe that ‘war’ is coming and I’ve thought of buying a gun to protect myself, but every time this thought crosses my mind the Lord always asks me the same question. “Are you going to put your faith in a little gun or are you going to put your faith in Me to protect you?” This is the same question He asked me when I pondered the idea of storing up some food, “Are you going to trust your own provision or are you going to trust in My Provision?”.

    So no food storage for me and no gun. I trust in the Lord.

  137. Lori T Jan 22nd 2013

    There is no martyrs crown for dying for your guns or constitutional rights.

  138. Concerning Revival, has anyone listened to the events that occurred at the Hebron Isle Revival? Might want to listen to the events by Rev. Duncan Campbell and Mary Peckham, I find it every interesting in the movement of God among the people.

  139. Also read about the Azuza Street Revival.

  140. It is difficult for me to read through these prophecies for several reasons. The main one (that is relevant to our discussion) is that they point out how our country has the tendency to turn grid-lock into aggression and violence. And many of our brothers and sisters are digging their heels into the ground demanding their ‘God-given rights’. It is sad that our wonderful country keeps falling into division rather than gain wisdom through prayer.

    It has bothered me for a long time that the church wants to stake claims in many issues that are irrelevant in leading people into a real relationship with the Father through Christ. It is as if this world is all they live for. The NRA and the Republican party are not God’s groups to redeem this country; you and I are. Unfortunately, the more that believers talk the larger the chasm becomes.

  141. Ejimanze Jan 22nd 2013

    @ Corey Thomas – U are wrong, Bro. Corey T – U are read right down to the last word, and I must say you wowed me with that fresh insight into Babylon, Mystery. Spot on!

  142. OK, here’s another thing, there is not going to be a pretrib rapture, an escape. I know there are those who think they will escape the end times..many people try to fit church ages with the 7 churches and so on..some people try to fit things in chronolical order but its not…its simultaneous, which means that when Jesus rebuked and praised those churches in Rev 2-3 it was happening all at once…so all types of scenarios will take place. a major event like a pretrib rapture if it were true would be plainly explained like the Birth of Jesus Christ. God has no secret prophecies that only bible scholars can decern..its plain and simple and it don’t take a G.E.D to figure this one out. the martyrs in foxes book of martyrs were kept from being Tempted/Tested meaning they were sold out to God so when it was time to die they were not even thinking about denying Christ. I have heard of people when being assaulted because of their testamony they had visions of God like Stephen when he was Stoned to death and the heavens opended. I beleive its possible that during the trib that Individuals could be taken up like Elijah and Enoch…but not the whole church. So after much study and research a lot of christains will die during the trib and those who are alive a remain will be taken up given new bodies and come right down…there is no time limits in eternity. so as a person is changed he/she could be rewarded then we all hop on horses with Jesus Christ and come back and the same time. since after all we are already seated in heavenly places in christ. thats why when John Wrote Revealtions he was explaining things he could not explain in his time era..The corrupted flesh can’t handle theses things so we try to explain but we only know in part because of the veil of the flesh. so since we can be two places at once it should make since now those who say how can be raptured and Duh? come right down?…eph 2:6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,….please don’t give an interpritation for that verse it means what it says, it does not mean anything else… now I am not talking about the dominionist view where they say go up and down to the thrown room and parade it. even the Apostle paul was very repectfull and feared God and did not brag and prance around even said it was not lawfull to say things he heard up there. all of those who had visions in the old and new testaments were in great fear of God and fell down on their faces. maybe thats why paul stated until christ be formed in you. and the ephesian prayers. so only those who are completely dead to themselves and mature will have some heavenly experinces and won’t run around a stage and take up offerings. and any Vision from God will always be God initiated not man doing it by yelling at demons to get out of the way of heaven so he could fly up there…

  143. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    No one has pointed out the end time witnesses as mentioned in Dan & Rev.

    Dan 11:32
    Through flattery he’ll corrupt those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but people who know their God will be strong and take action.

    Rev 11
    I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.

    If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and consumes their enemies; if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

    These men have the power to close up the sky so that it does not rain during the days of their prophecy. They also have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every plague whenever they want.

    There is the end time witness./revival. Further reading shows that plagues are brought on the earth and people will still not repent (Rev 9:21 & Rev 16:9) and instead they cursed G_d.

    I would like to hear from Brother Andrew in relation ro Rev 14:10.

    Shalom

  144. Deborah Jan 22nd 2013

    I, too, have been receiving these posts for a while now. The ‘trumpet call’ warning of war in the US seems to sound reasonable and plausible in the flesh; Jesus warned that in this world we would have tribulation. We were given ‘visions’ from Dimitri Dudaman; assertions from Kenny Atnip that ‘The Lord showed me…’ backed up by a dream from his 16-year old daughter who tasted blood and a 3-year old who cried out,”War is coming…people are dying!”. Darren Smith claims, “The Lord gave me a vision…”. In none of these things did I see what the Bible says about knowing if the word we hear is of God:
    But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18: 20-22.
    For over a hundred years, we’ve been hearing from self-proclaimed ‘prophets’ who are unafraid to speak false visons because we don’t hold them accountable. I don’t suggest we kill them, but I DO suggest we publish the ‘visions’ and ‘prophecies’ that have come to nothing so that people will know to disregard these people. Because it seems that ‘churched’ people are among the most gullible, the Bible’s reputation and that of those who believe and trust the Word of God has been diminished. One of these ‘prophets’ tried to bully a group of local people by saying, ‘by the Word of the Lord’, that the Lord would strike dead anyone who presumed to disagree with her. I stood up, said, “I disagree with you.” and walked out of the room.
    I suggest that people who speak presumptuously ‘in the Name of the Lord’ are the worst aetheists because they seem to think that nothing will happen to them.
    Mystery Babylon: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration…And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. It is a religious/ political system that has been carried worlwide.
    Israel is back in her land by God’s doing and according to His promise: Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd [doth] his flock. Jer. 31:10.
    The Church has never and will never replace Israel: Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Jeremiah 31: 35-36. To Abraham, God said, ‘For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. Gen 13: 15. And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him. Gen 17:19.
    People are free to say and believe whatever they wish, but God’s word stands as the standard against which everything is measured. Jesus uses it to prove those who are His own: And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:5) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10: 27.
    Speculation won’t do us any good, but knowing and trusting the Word of God is the only safe route. Today, there are books, tapes, and music all supposed to be ‘about’ the Gospel and the Lord, but Biblical illiteracy is rampant in the prosperity and pleasure that has, I assert, been the livelihood of charlatans and the undoing of the North American church.

  145. A few questions from SA.
    Why didn’t the church make a fuss when Gods Word was removed from schools & all the other public places? Where was the church when govt started murdering children whom God had already even given names? and many other questions as to where was the church.
    Now on the removal of gun ownership the constitution is king & folk want to fight a civilwar.
    When Gods “Kingship” in an area is tampered with the church is silent.
    So democracy it NOT the best govt. War, if some don’t agree with the govt. voted in. The system of voting is now no good!!!
    So, the problem is not govt., its people, the ones in govt., the ones who put them there & the ones who did nothing to stop them being put there, ie they didn’t vote or didn’t use the legal methods of making themselves heard. So, if it’s people that are the problem you need to change the people NOT SHOOT THEM as the Lord died for them. The only alternative is to change them (hearts) & only God can do that, so we get back to the Gospel & prayer. THERE IS NO OTHER SOLUTION.
    In every country where the govt has tried to destroy christianity, the church has blossomed, the real church, the kind all you guys are talking about & say you want.
    May I repeat??? It still blows me away the fuss & threats to guns & constitution change & very little or nothing about the murder of babies, millions of them….Please read the Bible about Gods thoughts toward the little ones. I am absoluteley amazed…. blown away. Can someone please explain??

  146. DonaldN Jan 22nd 2013

    Much talk about the Church in America and also the Church worldwide.
    I think many are forgetting that there are two churches.
    There is the true church, the remnant, true believers, true followers,
    and there is the false church, those who are following their own desires, their own flesh, following the false teachers and prophets who prophecy good things, prophecy only blessings and promises.
    We much make a difference between these two churches when we speak of any thing. When we speak of repentance, the false church will not listen. When we speak of holiness, the false church will not hear.
    When we speak of revival, it can only be on a personal level, there will be no national revival, no worldwide revival, unless it happens in the hearts of each individual.
    Nations will not change their ways and decide to follow Christ.
    Only individual people within each nation will turn to the Lord.
    The Bible warns us that in the end times the people (false church) will heap for themselves teachers who will speak to them what they want to hear.
    As for Babylon, it is not in the natural. It is not a particular nation, city or place.
    Just as the Kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom,
    so is Babylon. It is a mindset of rebellion against God.
    It is the opposite of the Kingdom of God. We must quit looking carnally for something that is spiritual or we will never see it coming. Babylon is already here, worldwide.
    The word tells us:
    Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying,”Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

    God is not telling all his people to move out of the usa or any other city, nation or whatever. It is a doctrine of anti-christ. It is the false church.

  147. sharon Jan 22nd 2013

    Was that what it was meant for, just to shake us up? Sad reason for any article.
    The joy of the Lord is our strength, we shall use that strength as He leads. Christians will always speak out against evil, it is our part.
    Freedom is God given.

  148. DonaldN Jan 22nd 2013

    Edit: We must make a difference…

  149. If you want to quote the scripture in support of a statement then please use ALL the scriptures on the subject, not one only. Then read VERY carefully the context. The 3 rules of exegesis are 1.Context. 2.Context. 3.Context. In the culture, language, time & circumstance why was someone saying what they said, to whom & for what purpose.
    Don’t use one scripture to cancell another. If you cant get scriptures to agree then you don’t have the true meaning, Do what you have to do to find out but don’t make up your own mind to suit what you would like to believe.

  150. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    Btw on escapism theology/ gnostism which has corrupted Christian thinking and behavior.

    -The word rapture is nowhere mentioned in the text.
    -Christ was resurrection before His ascension
    -The first resurrection is a resurrection of the just / righteous..
    -That was the goal of the apostle Paul.
    -One will be clothed in the resurrection with their behavior.
    -There is a scriptural difference between tribulation & temptation as well as jugdement and wrath (judgment is redemptive is taken correctly and wrath is not)
    Everything that was previously stands the scrutiny of OT/NT, original language, as well as sound reasoning.
    G_d never retreats – He always makes a way. IS 43
    When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.
    In addition read Psalm 91 very closely (11,000 on your right side and left)

    G_d shows more deliverance than translation as translation is at the end of a life (Enoch and Elijah)

    Btw, if a person honestly thinks that they are that special to G_D as to translated as Enoch in light of the Holocaust of over 10 million Jews had better be living, walking with G_D, and be pleasing to Him just like Enoch and live your life as to ” attain” to the “out/first”resurrection of the righteous.

    Shalom

  151. Deborah Jan 22nd 2013

    To antipas4yahshua, I hope you won’t mind if I make a response. The two witnesses in jerusalem are, I believe, Elijah and Enoch:
    Elijah has already demonstrated his ability to close up the skies so that there is no rain: ‘Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.’ James 5: 17.
    And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him. Gen 5:24.
    But Hebrews 9:27 insists: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Since Elijah and Enoch have not yet died, it seems reasonable and consistent with Scripture that these two be the witnesses. Enoch represents the world before the flood and Elijah afterwards up until Christ.
    I suggest that the Beast is not a nation, but a man who sets himself up as a god in opposition to the Son of Man and tries to receive worship that belongs to God.

  152. Sharon I would like YOU to clarify exactly what you mean by the freedom that God gave you (USA)
    I think this is the hub of the problem & I wish andrew would have an intelligent blog on it so folks can comment.
    HERE LIES OUR PROBLEM I BELIEVE. WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FREEDOM IS THAT GOD GIVES US

  153. I also had a vison many years ago. At the time I did not understand what it meant nor did God reveal it’s meaning to me at least not at that timeing. Now I do understand that this vision was about America coming back to a God that is found in both the OT and the NT. Sadly the church today thinks the OT has been done away with. God said,”If you love Me you will keep My commandments.” These are found in the OT.

    In this vision, America was very dark. I could not see the difference between one state or land from another. The blackness was deep and an overwheming saddness was present. Just as I thought about what I was seeing, I noticed a pin of light coming from an area then another then another. Soon the whole America was lit and began to rebuild itself. This doomed feeling left and hope was restored.

    Along with this vision, I had a series of 3 dreams that showed America in total destruction. The only way one could survive this destruction was to be hearing the instruction of the Holy Spirit and doing exactly what the Holy Spirit told you to do. Those that refused or followed mans plans were killed.

  154. DonaldN Jan 22nd 2013

    Ian, could you please verify who exactly you are referring to, if someone in particular, and what scripture. There have been many quotes here.

  155. FAST AND PRAY !! WE HAVE SINNED, LORD HAVE MERCY

  156. DonaldN Jan 22nd 2013

    Deborah, the two witnesses are “represented” by Moses and Elijah, who Jesus met with on the mount of transfiguration. They are the Law, given by Moses, and the Prophets. In other words, the two witnesses are not literal persons, it is the Word of God that witnesses about Jesus.

  157. “I believe the government will begin rounding up people that are on a list. If we are on that list, don´t resist or run, God sends some away to protect them.”

    This is pure unadulterated madness. You are counselling them to submit to a holocaust. This is not ancient Babylon.

    The Babylonians and the Romans practised a form of subjection whereby you capture peoples and shuffle them around to different parts of your empire to subjugate them. Those who resisted are slaughtered. This is the captivity that Israel went to. This IS NOT DONE ANYMORE.

    The modern method of subjugation is to murder your opponents. They are disappeared, put into camps, etc. It is by this method that millions are killed. Those who submitt are murdered, those who resist (because they outnumber the oppressors) have a chance to survive or die free.

    You Andrew are propagating bad advice based on despot tactics which have not been used in a couple thousand years. The tactics which are being prepaired against the US will result in the deaths of millions. Look up democide, it is coming.

    The US is indeed under judgement and so are many Christians who have bowed the knee to government, consumerism, and self. But self defence is both legal, moral, and Godly. If this country we have the moral and legal right and responsibility to defend our rights and freedom at the cost of our own life if need be. Those who defend their lives are less under judgement than those who continue to defend and support the current power system.

  158. Donaldn. There are many but one in particular is the one referring to the Lord Jesus telling his disciples to take a sword, so now we must take guns.
    It looks like the discussion has changed to eschatology and real guesswork. But I suppose its good to at least have an opinion, at least one has studied it & thats better than doing nothing & have no opinion. I wont offer my opinion on it as it will also be just my guesswork. Be blessed

  159. Andrew Strom I admire you. Your emails go against what is popular to say in the Christian community today. It is time for us to realize the truth of what Jesus revealed as he was being lead to the slaughter. “My Kingdom is not of this world” First and foremost we must identify with Christ. He said, “The greatest of these is love.” Do we really identify with his love and with the dying on the cross?

    Your last two emails have been right on as has all the emails I have taken the time to read. We are not to whine like spoiled children, “They took our guns away!” We have camp meetings and they become rallies to go against the truth of the word. I compel you to read Ezekiel 22:23-31 does it sound like what is going on today in America? The Holy Spirit led me to this scripture as I was preparing for my sermon.

    What is going on in the government is by God’s design. Do you not believe the scriptures? Why are so many Christians fighting instead of praying? Why are so many Christians afraid of what God has said would come? Why are we standing by the wayside instead of doing what God called us to do? Maybe, because we are soaking up too much pew time on the isle of “Me First”, and not enought of knee time and go out and share the good news time.

  160. <<>>

    Really? Where do we find such examples in the New Covenant teachings or by the New Covenant apostles or by Jesus, who is our example? Does not scripture teach us “it is no longer “I” that lives, but Christ who lives within me”. Is this just a cliche to many Christians or is this reality? We, if we belong to Jesus, no longer belong to this world (including whatever country one lives in) OR to ourselves. We have been bought with a price. I am an Air Force Veteran, lest anyone think I am some over the top religious nut. I am also NOT anti-gun. What I am is anti-defense when that defense is aimed at taking others out. Sorry, but anyone who believes the Constitution and Bill of Rights SUPERSEDES the Word of God is sorely mistaken and will end up on the broad road to destruction—–seeking to sake their own lives rather than lose their lives for HIS SAKE.

    In the past, I TRIED to justify self-defense. I could not find it ANYWHERE in the New Covenant teachings for Christ’s followers. What I found was the OPPOSITE. What I found was Mt. 5 regarding how we are to treat our enemies. Blowing them away was not one of the options given.

    Andrew, I thank you for your commentary and I welcome being challenged, biblically, politically, etc. For those who think politics should be separated from our Christianity, how is that? Our lives in Christ should permeate EVERY aspect of our lives, including politically. If we are “in Him”, we cannot separate our lives into these neat little compartments where other Christians are told “this area is off limits to you”.

    I believe if Christians do not truly meditate on these things (the uprising we see going on all around us), some will indeed go against Jesus in their actions towards others and will reap the rewards of such actions. We need to seek His Face and be solid in His Word on this issue so our hearts are set on the right course of action towards our enemies. We also need to remember that HE is our protector (as He was His Son’s) and NOTHING that comes our way come unless He allows it. We need to get that truth in our brains and make sure our RESPONSES to whatever comes are pleasing in His sight and bring Him honor and glory.

  161. oops, in the above post, I was quoting one who said that it is GODLY to protect oneself from others.

  162. These prophetic words speak of things that are already abundantly clear in the natural world. Just the other day, I saw someone on Facebook post an article by someone named Erik Garces in which his final statement was, “Which is why we’re seeing the criminals in this illegitimate government provoking a civil war.”

    The signs of the brewing civil war are all around us. Anybody who is alert to the things going on in the natural world can see these signs. For me, these prophecies are further confirmation of the signs that are already evident.

    I agree completely that Christians are to stay out of this.

    I also see the current atmosphere as being parallel to the first time that Jesus came. Many Jewish people were of the attitude that the Roman rule needed to be overthrown and that God wanted that to happen to restore the Kingdom of Israel. The Jews even tried to make Jesus their earthly King in order to make this happen. Jesus, of course, would have nothing to do with this.

    Many of the Jews that were wrapped up in this movement couldn’t see the Messiah standing right in front of them because of how blinded they were by their ungodly viewpoint and attitude about overthrowing Roman rule.

    Let us not be in the camp of those who blindly support either side of this coming civil war.

  163. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013
  164. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    If permitted would like to throw something out for food for thought on regarding guns.
    As mentioned world history, constitutional law, and OT/NT allow permit the “bearing of arms”.
    This can not be denied.
    What is done with them is a entirely different matter and where the rubber hits road.
    To obey the government in the giving up of shotguns with grips, non revolver pistols, and +7-10 round magazines, is a violation of the above as well as common sense.
    This simply disarms law abiding citizens and people render them helpless against criminals and those bent on violence.
    These are the human components of civil war.

    Shalom

  165. Under discussion has been “Civil War in the USA” and christians from America and throughout the world are debating whether to have or use a gun or not. From from what I can gather it appears that civil war is taking place within the modern western christian church for the sake of having a form of a written constitution which can be altered and changed when people feel like it and to replace it with something else suitable for the whims of the 21st century.
    Christians cannot agree to a Pre Trib, Mid Trib, or a a Post Trib and now people are saying that the Body of Christ will go through the Great Tribulation to be executed in their thousands if not millions. And Almighty God will allow this to happen to adults as well as children, and so forth.
    And yet, at this very moment want every believer to accept this as this will be inevitable when the Anti Christ and the False Prophet appear to take the helm of governance which appears to be very soon.
    From what has been said, lets start using guns now rather than later to take on the enemy whoever they may be and known to us. Lets board up our homes from inside to keep the enemy out. Lets have those who have guns in the christian church protect us from what is coming.
    It is understood that our brothers and sisters in the Lord who live in the United Kingdom need our protection because the unwritten British Constitution has been replaced by a written European Constitution compiled at Brussels. Can we send a flotilla to the UK as the British armed forces were sent to the Falkland Islands in the 1980s to set free the Falklanders from the Argentinian invasion.
    I, without any hesitation, would protect my family if someone entered my home with a gun with the intention to threatening to kill my family for the purpose of robbery, if it means in turning the gun that person has on them to stop murder. The Lord God Almighty would have to intervene to stop that person killing me and my family.
    Do we act in self defence or allow that person to shoot their bullets at us is the question that needs an answer. My dad and relatives fought the Nazi during WW2 whose agenda was to create the Third Reich. And we saw the consqences of the Holocaust which Adolf Hitler initiated and many in the German christian church turned a blind eye to.
    Betrayal and abandoned, plus a falling away from the Word of God, is prophesied in the End Times. These are the End Times and this has begun in the modern western christian church.
    A great revival? Will be for the Great Tribulation?
    Suggest that that brethren read The Great Dream witten way back in 1994 by an American christian called Dean Flanders. It is an eye opener about the Apostate Church. It’s free.
    See this link
    http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html

    Shalom and may you keep your eyes firmly on the Lord Jesus Christ.

  166. Gary Stimson Jan 22nd 2013

    I have already read The Great Dream and what the writer shares.
    It may take time to read but it was well worth it.
    The Apostate Church is what it says and what lays behind it all which is out to deceive, even the elect.

  167. Allison Jan 22nd 2013

    I am not quite sure what is meant by Kenny Atnip’s words about taking part in a “war against the
    government”. In general our government (United States) has trashed our God-given liberties set forth in our Founding Documents such as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The government
    servants still take an oath of office to uphold the Constitution but have become liars because they do not uphold it.

    If you stand up for truth and confront the government servants they will not answer your query at all as they are no longer servants but tyrants. We citizens are ignored and trampled upon. Are you saying do not stand up for truth — do not hold them accountable? Just roll over and accept their evil ways? Our country was founded on God’s truth and the Revolutionary War was fought to uphold these truths and liberties and sever our links to the tyrants in those days. Were our Founding Fathers disobedient because they warred against
    the tyrannical governments in their day???

    One way the enemy of our souls has tricked the believer is by way of the modern (corrupt) translations of the Bible. Take a look at Romans 13 where the corrupt versions tell the believers to submit to the ungodly government instead of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. The Church was instituted by Christ to serve the purposes of God, not the purposes of governments established by men.

    Romans 13:1 BIBLE VERSIONS COMPARED

    Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of
    God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (KJV)

    Every person with the power of choice, even the highest in command, does not exercise proper freedom if not loyal to God. The power of choice is ordained by God. Therefore, those who resist the freedom given by God bring judgment on themselves. Rulers must not oppose good works, but must oppose evil. Are you afraid to exercise your power of choice? Do what is good and you will have praise from them. (See http://hisholychurch.info/news/articles/roman13clergy.html for a more in depth explanation.)

    ~~~~ CORRUPT VERSIONS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. (NKJV)

    Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no
    authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established
    by God. (NIV)

    Romans13:1 Be a good citizen. All governments are under God. Insofar as there is peace and
    order, it’s God’s order. So live responsibly as a citizen. (The Message)

    Romans 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no
    authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. (NASB)

    Romans 13:1 Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to
    anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. (CEV)

    Romans13:1 Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God. (NLT)

  168. In answering Allison’s comments – “If you stand up for truth and confront the government servants they will not answer your query at all as they are no longer servants but tyrants” that is why you have a two party political system in the USA governed by big business, corruption, and greed. May I add another called deception which is this whereby American politicians no longer serve the American people- you have a saying of “government of the people, by the people, for the people.” This has long been forgotten and in looking at the many actions in both Republican and Democratic parties no longer exists but only on paper.
    The same applies of the two party system controlled by the Conservative and Labour parties. They no longer represent the people of the United Kingdom and those who say that they are christian politicians put their party first before Christ. That is why they do not dare call the nation to REPENTANCE, as in the USA.

  169. Allison, your post is precisely what I was saying about what makes good exegesis.
    The explanation you give is not even good english & makes no sense at all. Please read at least up the v7
    Also Tit_3:1; 1Pe_2:13-17

    Furthermore it’s not wise to get involved in which is a good or bad translation. I have had long discussions about this with a bible translator & you will be suprised what is good or bad. If you are not an ancient greek scolar, rather stay away from it.
    Remember….context & ALL the scriptures on the subject. Be Blessed

  170. I seldom comment on posts but I have to say that this really resonated with what I feel the Lord has been showing me. I really feel that soon those of us who rely more on the flesh than the Spirit, or those of us who confuse faith in Jesus Christ with their idea of patriotism will be driven to armed conflict against their fellow Americans. They feel that the only way to oppose tyranny and restore America to godliness is by violence.

    But look at the New Testament: The Roman Empire was one of the most vile and corrupt governments that ever existed. And yet no where do the Lord or the Apostles call for a violent overthrow of the system. In fact Christians are commanded to be loyal and obedient citizens, in so far that they don’t compromise the Faith. So in obedience to Jesus Christ they resisted by refusing to worship the Emperor or any of the myriad of Rome’s false Gods. In obedience to Christ they prayed for the welfare of their vile and heinous rulers. In obedience to Christ they were imprisoned, tortured, even killed. The way of Faith does not follow the way of the gun.

  171. ‘If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him” (Deut. 18:22).

    “But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the Lord only if his prediction comes true” (Jer. 28:9).

    “When all this comes true – and it surely will – then they will know that a prophet has been among them.” (Ezek. 33:33).

    “The Lord was with Samuel as he grew up, and he let none of his words fall to the ground. And all Israel from Dan to Beersheba recognized that Samuel was attested as a prophet of the Lord” (1 Sam 3:19).

    The True Church has no Church recognized true Prophet.Thousands of self proclaimed prophets and wanna be’s in “wolves clothing” abound.

    Kenny Antip says, “God showed him we should not get involved” violates scripture. “We ought to obey God rather than men.” God has not told the Church in scripture to let evil takeover. The God ordained powers are to be a terror to evil-doers, not the children of God! Once again, our God ordained powers are not the President, nor any other branch of government if they are not abiding by our Constitution! That’s what you foreigners don’t get. As long as a citizen is fighting for his Constitutional rights, he or she is in obedience to God’s word if those they fight are in violation of the Constitution. God does not ordain baby killers and homosexuals to have authority over his “Blood Bought Church”…your agenda Andrew smacks of christian socialism.

  172. Tiffany Jan 22nd 2013

    Thank you Andrew for this post. God bless you and your family dear brother. I look at many professing christians today and I’m very discouraged and sadden by much of the behavior of many that is displayed to the world, such a poor example of “Christ Followers” (Christians). For many honor Him with their mouth but hearts are far from Him. There is too much “self” involved and not enough of HIM in the hearts and lives of many. Fear has run rampant in the hearts of those who claim to trust HIM and such fear tells me that they’ve never really known Him as He is perfect love and perfect love casts out fear!!! Everyone yes has a right to bare arms yet I don’t believe it is necessary to have 30, 40, 50 to 100 round clips. That’s just foolishness to me. But, unfortunately fear produces foolishness and deadly behavior. And a heart that may be driven by fear and hatred will lead to utter destruction. Man needn’t worry about the “enemy” seeking to destroy them as man WILL destroy one another themselves. Unless we truly repent and surrender ourselves completely, wholely and completely to HIM the church will be awaken in such a way that we’d wish we never tempted The Lord our God! We MUST repent and RETURN back to Him, not just with our mouths but with our actions as well! You may all “bare arms” you have that right but as for me and my house the weapons of choice we shall use will be our FAITH, our HOPE, our PRAYER and our Complete TRUST in The Lord God whom we serve. Whether we live or die our faith is IN HIM. Not man, not a gun, not anything or anyone esle but Christ Jesus our Lord!!

    Bless you and your household Andrew! Thank you again for sharing this!

  173. Allison Jan 22nd 2013

    Comment from Allison – Thank you Terry for your comments. Yes, we have a two-party system – A left wing and a right wing both motivated by big business, corruptions and greed. Think of our government as a big turkey with a left leg and a right leg but their goal is the same.

    As in the Lord’s prayer — Thy Kingdom come and Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven!!! Looking forward to the New Heavens and the New Earth — meanwhile I am occupying until He comes. Blessings.

  174. Corey Thomas Jan 22nd 2013

    I would say in a nutshell, the whole of the Christian community are not in unity on most things. Reading through these posts, it’s pretty clear there are a million different types of “Christians” out there. Out of all the comments I have read I have seen very few doctrinally based, most based on pure imagination, cultural bias, and pure unadulterated belief in something other than Christ. Search your heart, and dig in to the word. Study to show yourselves approved.

    Stop listening to false prophets, diviners, and spiritual rapists. These people on our television networks, are there for a reason, popular media (ie the devil) does not fear their message, because its not Christs message, so they let them on tv. Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn, pretty much all of TBN, false teaching. They’re lying to you, selling you a product that makes them rich, and kills you. Just like judas selling out Jesus.

    “Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.” (Acts 17:11, 12 NIV)

  175. Justine Orme Jan 22nd 2013

    It is disturbing to read what has been written, however the Lord has been sending me dreams about America – I’m not a USA citizen, and do not live in the US.

    In one dream he showed me an invading army coming down through Canada and there was much blood shed and death until that army reached the white house. For some reason I was in the White House and saw a stairway leading down – the stairway had been decorated in red flock wallpaper – very expensive, but it was so dirty, filthy, cobwebby – it showed complete neglect.

    Dream No.2 showed me here in NZ – the US Secretary of Defence visited me because I wanted to dismantle a ‘control’ system that had invaded and was spying on us in our home.

    All dreams are open to interpretation – I know what they mean, when the Lord gives me dreams or visions, they have 1st a personal application and then always a secondary application for the body of Christ.

    God has been striving to call us all to sanctify ourselves and we have been too complacent and not even seen the dirt (stairwell) that we are living with every day, nor have we noticed the invasive controls.

    WAKE UP CHURCH!

    be blessed in Jesus

    Justine Orme

  176. Dick Samuels Jan 22nd 2013

    I am concerned in what I see in the visible church here in America. There is confusion and stinkin’ thinkin’ galore. Many “Christians” have resorted to political activism and gun totin’ bravado in these days that try men’s souls. I get misty eyed when I watch our veterans march in parades or hear our national anthem. So, I consider myself to be a loyal American. But, as much as I love my country and our way of life, I must confess that my citizenship is in heaven, and that Jesus is my beloved King.

    Jesus said to the seven churches, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” It seems that Jesus had an expectation that the saints should hear from the Holy Spirit about coming events. In this day there is a deafening babble of voices, religious and secular. The challenge is to come away from the din and hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Forgive my insensitivity, but I don’t want to hear from another talking head. I want to hear from the Head of the church, by the voice of His Spirit. Are any of you where I’m at? Have any of you heard from the Spirit? I’m listening.

  177. Guys, please pay a visit to Africa or a country where christians are persecuted for their faith. PLEASE DO THAT.
    Your eyes will be opened & you will be ashamed.
    Recently an American pastor was in North Korea. On leaving he asked the Korean christian how the church in the USA could pray for them. He said “no thanks, I have been to the States & you need our prayers more than we need yours”

  178. Guys, please pay a visit to Africa or a country where christians are persecuted for their faith. PLEASE DO THAT.
    Your eyes will be opened & you will be ashamed.
    Recently an American pastor was in North Korea. On leaving he asked the Korean christian how the church in the USA could pray for them. He said “no thanks, I have been to the States & you need our prayers more than we need yours” Thoes christians are free, you guys (a generalisation, not everyone) are bound & need real liberation & freedom.
    Fight for the constitution!!!!! Are you guys crazy.

  179. Norma Auge Dowling Jan 22nd 2013

    Do you love your children? Do you let them do anything they want even if it hurts themselves or others? Of course not…Are we un-Christian if we punish them sometimes to teach them or to protect them? For over two years I have been aware of what Obama was doing with his NDAA Law and his Executive Orders, and now his gun control. Christians, if we raised our kids the way we have chosen to sit back and not get involved in chastizing and trying to stop what is evil in our government and nation, our kids would not learn to do the right things versus the wrong things.

    It has been apathy in the church almost more than anything else that has allowed our elected leaders for generations to lie and get away with it and we shrugged and said that politics. Well it shouldn’t be. We can’t go back and change what we didn’t do right, but we can start now and stand firmly for what is right. I have heard the saying that Christians can be so heavenly minded they are of no earthly good. The bible says so many things and we could debate this forever, but I just ask you to think about what will happen if no one stands for the liberty that was paid for by the blood of many Christians so long ago in this nation.

    If people in Germany had done what some people are trying to do in the U.S. now, Hitler would not have been able to begin his plan of genocide. There would have been no World War II. But apathy and the false belief that their elected officials would protect their freedoms, got 100.000 German citizens locked up in one year and held till most of them died, although none of them had committed a crime. And that was just the beginning of a reign of terror that lasted from 1933 to 1945. When an illegal alien was allowed to obtain the highest office in the land with no one we elected standing on or protecting the Constitution, we were already a nation on the verge of civil war. Just a very few people recognized that. Letting them take our second amendment rights might stop civil war but at what cost?….

    You know what love is. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The bible says to love our neighbor as ourselves. If you saw someone trying to kill your neighbor, would you just do nothing, maybe run and hide or pray, or would you be willing to risk your life to save his? If you knew your neighbor and his children would be rounded up and placed in concentration camps and systematically killed would you maked a choice to try to stop it from happening, or would you just say, well it must be God’s will??? They sinned so they are just being punished. Or they should have known to keep their mouths shut and not object to the government..

    The bible has lots to say about Christians and their faith. It mentions if you meet a man that is hungry or cold and you say be blessed and filled and warm, I will pray for you, and you go on your way and do nothing to feed that man or clothe him, have you really done the will of God?

    That is an easy one, but civil war to protect the citizens from finding themselves in as horrible a position that the people in Germany did before WWII is not so easy, is it?. Did you ever wonder how the German people could just do nothing to stop the evil they saw Hitler doing. How did they just turn their heads and let it happen? I’ll tell you how. In one year, Hitler rounded up all the leaders of the people who objected to his agendas. They were there one day and then gone, and horrible rumors leaked out as to what happened, and was continuing to happen to them. Already they had lost their right to free speech, to freedom of the press, their freedom to have and bear arms, and by the end of that year, if they didn’t even salute anyone they met on the street with the Heil Hitler Salute, they were automatically arrested and never got out again. They died in those first concentration camps before WWII ever started. They were used as slave labor to build those camps used on everyone else. They were alternately tortured and starved, as a method of getting them to see the error of their ways… Do you know that the army handbook that trains them to lock up U.S. citizens at Obama’s order also teaches them to use similar methods to retrain the thinking of those arrested, to accept the new form of government in America…Obama has the same things lined up for U.S. citizens that Hitler did. The same laws that will give total control over everything to take anything he wants from anyone just by saying the STATE has need of this. Obama has the same agendas the same type of camps set up all over this nation empty, staffed and just waiting for people to be rounded up. Our military has been training for 4 years to take over cities and to arrest U.S. citizens without charges. U.N. troops have also trained in our cities.

    Do you think people were very forgiving of the German public who silently let Hitler do what ever he wanted? No they were charged with war crimes, they were and are to this day judged as having done evil by doing nothing to stop evil. When Obama pulls the plug on the economy, fear and rioting will probably become rampent. Life as we know it will come to a screeching halt. People, starving people, with no jobs, will gladly give themselves into the benevolent government’s control that promises to put them in a safe place and feed them. When they do they will find themselves behind bars and barbed wire fences, held by a not very benevolent government and many will die. Before Obama is allowed to do this, he must be stopped. We can not stand by and say it’s OK to kill innocent people who have done no harm to anyone. War is horrible, but torture, starvation, euthanasia, and imprisonment for no valid reason isn’t so swift either, and that is what Obama has planned for most American’s. He wants our land and plans to give it to those he chooses. Read the over 150 Executive Orders signed by him. When is it right to stop a dictator from doing what Hitler did? Or are Christians just supposed to submit. I can submit to a legal government. We are called to obey the laws of the land, but Obama doesn’t obey the very laws he swore to uphold and he can not legally prove his right to be in office according to the Constitution. He has forged papers, he has used 4 different social security numbers and the list goes on .

    The quandry we face as Christians is not an easy one. But the most important thing we are all required to do is seek God’s will and try to follow it. In these end times , some Christians will die in the U.S., murdered for their beliefs, and other Christians will die fghting to rescue them. If God is the same yesterday , today and forever then some of those old testament words still apply to us too. God said stand for what is good, see that justice is done in the courts. God says he hates evil and wants us to hate it too. He hates murder, and robbery and those who choose to do evil those who make plans to do evil to the innocent. He means it, if he didn’t , He wouldn’t be planning to send Jesus back with an army to fight the devil and to destroy a huge portion of mankind… We were told in the bible to turn our swords into plowshares, but we are also told in the endtimes to turn those plowshares into swords. There is a season for everthing on this earth. A time to live and a time to die, a time to laugh and a time to weap, a time for war and a time for peace. Now is the time for war… I don’t want it to be that, but it is.

    The bible says we will be caught up together with the Lord at the last trump. I know I will rile some of you, but the last trump sure enough seems to come chronologically after the Seals and the 6 other trumpets… Funny how a 5 year old child knows 7 comes after six but for theologians that’s just too simple If the numbers in the book of Revelation were not to be taken literally, why are they there, and why does the bible say, and then…. the second angel did such and such..

    I really doubt if many of you have studied just when and how the pre-trib rapture teaching got started. Do you know that there is not a record of it being taught in the whole church till only a little more than a century ago. . . Do you know that the bible warns anyone who adds to or takes away from the teachings in the book of Revelation that they are in danger of having their names removed from the lambs book of life? I didn’t write it, but it’s there. Did you know that the people who decided that there was a last trumpet for Christians and then another last trumpet, didn’t know what the tenses were in the Greek text.

    I have heard preached many a time just how amazing it is that God had the new testament written at the time that Greek was the main written language for that time and the one used for the greatest number of people to be able to read. It is also the most detailed language, far more than any other, in that it has words that mean things are happening in the present, another word that means it will happen, but only once , another word for for it will happen in the future and over and over again. another word to make it clear it will happen to just one person one time or that it has already happened to one particular person one time and it is not a thing that will happen again to anyone else.

    Do you know that the scripture the early pre-trib teachers used to determine when the rapture of the church would happen was the phrase” Come up hither” in the King James version of the bible in Revelation 4:1. Problem is the verb used is a single one time, past event. In other words , it was only for John to come up hither and when it was written to be sent to the church, it was clearly made by that verb used, to be understood that it had happened to John and only John, at that time when he was shown all these things in heaven and told to write them down. The second “Come up hither” in Revelation 11:12 is also a one time event, but a future one time event and that it is at the last trump, the 7th trumpet, right before the wrath of God . As best as I can understand, it will be right after the last two prophets who are killed in Jerusalem and seen by the whole world rising from the dead 3 days later. Do we know the day or the hour, no, but we can have a pretty good idea of the season.

    Having said all that I want you to know that I think we are already in the first seal. More governments worldwide have had turnovers not only of their leaders but the entire way of governing their people along with major changes in their laws caused by their change in leader this past couple of years than ever before in history. The second seal takes peace from the earth. Civil War here, civil wars all over the place, and possibly the beginning of WWIII. The thrid seal is when the economy of the world crashes. We are on the way folks so wake up and get ready, we have a ways to go before we get out of here, unless we die before the last trumpet blows, Find out what God wants you to do, then do it..

  180. while i do believe the government has been preparing for civil unrest since last summer…. the different depts, including the weather dept., were buying up very much ammunition ! what would the national weather service do with ammo? shoot the clouds to bring rain to arid areas?? anyway, i believed that just in case obamas crew could not hook or crook the election in his favor , a self made civil unrest would unfold and the USA would be put under MARSHALL LAW ,thus he would stay in office until, and if ,it ended ! if he keeps trashing the CONSTITUTION it may happen yet , thus the big kick for buying guns by citizens including some CHRISTIANS.i doubt that anyone who is a true CHRISTIAN could or would shoot another human ( especially another countryman of their own) with maybe exceptions being a threat to them or family members. but many well-meaning persons have had all they can take of the crew in charge…. how far would the average guy go before revolting…only GOD knows !

  181. Allison Jan 22nd 2013

    Regarding Bible translations I refer you to Gregory Williams who is not only a theologian but also a Latin and Greek scholar. He has written extensively on our liberty in the Lord and what the original Greek has to say about the true meaning of Romans 13.

    His website: http://hisholychurch.org/ and specifically his research on Romans 13: http://hisholychurch.org/sermon/romans13.php

  182. Baruch Jan 22nd 2013

    There is a South African prophet that succesfully predicted Hurricane Sandy 2 years ago. He is now prophesying a nuclear attack on New York. His words can be found at the link below:

    http://www.crossconnections.net/blogs/VISIONS-EXPLOSIONS-NEW-YORK-02112012

  183. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    I’ll throw this out there since most USA Christians dont study the text nor the context imo.
    There is a difference between “tribulation” and “temptation”.
    1. Temptation (“peirasmon” occurs 21 times via Strongs)
    Ever wonder why Christ mentioned this in how to pray to the Father “led me not into temptation” ie “peirasmon”. Allow me to suggest looking this up where it is used and the context. Christ prayed for Peter regarding this.

    2. Tribulation (thlipsis – occurs 45 times in the Strongs Greek)
    Tribulation is promised to everyone. The disciple of Christ welcomes it. It is redemptive and humbling. It is absolutely needed to enter the Kingdom of God (Acts 14:22) as well as see G_d.

    The ways of Kingdom are paradoxal – to be elevated in the Kingdom – one is abased, rebuked, and disciplined through tribulation and then tried via temptation to curse others, G_D, buckle, or stand firm. It is a “curing” process.

    Job suffered both -he suffered tribulation by loss of family, goods, and health. However, he was tempted to curse G_d and did not, instead he cursed the day he was born (this is hating your life in the proper sense).
    i addition, the 3 Hebrews were tempted to bend the knee or die by being thrown in the furnace (temptation).
    Being thrown into the fire is tribulation.

    The Garden of Gethsemane was the hour of temptation for Christ (ie not My will but Yours be done).
    The arrest, jailed, tortured, and crucified was tribulation.

    I hope this makes sense since it requires “contemplative thought” and most Americans are to busy to do this.

    Tribulation is not to concerned about- Christ promised it for EVERYBODY. However, the hour of temptation where “Christ prayed so hard that His sweat was bloody” is a entirely different matter.
    To avoid this – take a look at Rev 3:10 (the hour of temptation / peirasmon )

    Shalom

  184. I believe you are wrong in stating we are not to resist and just go blindly when they come for us, I believe you have not understood the meaning of Romans 13 and you are spiritually incorrect. If the the church of Old thought like you none would have been left alive and all would have perished. God never stated in scripture you were not allowed to defend your family from evil doers, he just didn’t want you going out and using the sword in the wrong manner. Their is a thing that is called a just and honorable war which all men of honor need to do. it is not that your breaking any law, it is guaranteed us in our laws to protect the people from a tyrannical form of government of which we now have. In all we do it must be done without revenge and must be done in honor and we do have the law on our side, it is called the constitution and it is granted us to fix the problem if we should happen to fall upon us.

  185. Barabas Jan 22nd 2013

    What is, already is, what you believe what is, is your choice. God has and is judging the USA. It is we, collectivly that failed God. It has been years in the making, how could we have ever allowed the communists/devil worshippers in seats of power. After the tribulation, two additions to prevent this evil from taking over. 1) Lottery for political offices, Selection day, not Election day. If a person meets the criteria, put their name in the hat for Selection day, elections always go to corruption and money grubbing. 2) Familism = Capitalism but on a small scale only. Max of 100 employees per company. There is no benefit in a single company owner to make billions of dollars, all the very rich move into devil worshiping and evil, the money corrupts, why even allow that to be an option.
    THank you

  186. Willem Jan 22nd 2013

    I don’t want to come across as rude, but sometimes I think certain countries think they are the world. Sure I hear songs about Babylon all the time coming from hollywood… Sad, if they only knew.
    Civil wars are on its way in my country too, people do not agree with current government.. And as satan wil have it, neither will they ever.
    Just want to add when I think of my country I don’t see a flag… I see people, people who have the right to choose death or life blessing or curse… I can’t decide for them…
    May God reign in our hearts, if He can’t reign in our governments.
    God bless

  187. God gives us a warning in the Book of Revelation about (modern) Babylon.

    As pointed out in your report above, in the days of (ancient) Babylon; God said if you resist the (corrupt) Babylonian government (Nebuchadnezzar), you will die; but if you surrender to their will, you will preserve your life.

    Your report above suggests that we should follow this advice in our day.
    However, the Book of Revelation warns;

    In the days of (modern) Babylon; if you resist the (corrupt) Babylonian government (the Beast), you will die; but if you surrender to their will and receive the mark of the beast, you will preserve your life (temporarily).

    Quite opposite to what you are recommending.
    If you obey (modern) Babylon in an attempt to preserve your life, you will loose it;
    Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them (the deceased saints); and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    DON’T obey Babylon by receiving the mark of the beast in an attempt to save your life!

  188. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    Btw, lets try to use scriptural language. As mentioned “rapture” is a unscriptural manner.

    Before the ascension of Christ comes comes the resurrection. Christ was resurrected before He ascended.

    Christ, Paul, and John in Revelations stressed the First Resurrection.
    One is “place”, the other is a “condition” or “homeostasis/spiritualstatis”.
    To take part in the “honor guard” to welcome the rightful King (ie Honor Guard) – one has to be resurrected.
    One has to counted “worthy and just” to make the First Resurrection.
    Resurrection is what is stressed in the OT as well.
    The angels remarked at the ascension He was returning in the same manner.
    This cannot be denied.

    Take a look at Rev 2 & 3 in regards to “overcoming” and being “just” and ‘worthy”

    This is not a attempt to hijack the thread. However, Christians who are taught and believe they are going to escape tribulation might want to consider the slaughter 10 10 million Jews.
    Keep in mind, we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

    Shalom

  189. Yohanan Jan 22nd 2013

    antipas4yahshua, do you think you could be more condescending? It’s hard to see a prescription when delivered with so much arrogance.

  190. Not to get off the subject here but one thing needs to be said, neither America nor New York City is Babylon. First off, Babylon is constantly referred to as a city, not a nation so that has to exclude America.

    In the Bible, Jerusalem is Jerusalem, Egypt is Egypt, Damascus is Damascus, Lebanon is Lebanon, Rome is Rome, Moab is Moab, Ammon is Ammon, Edom is Edom, Ethiopia is Ethiopia, Greece is Greece, etc etc

    In the Bible, Babylon is Babylon. Not America. Not NYC.

    America may be like Babylon just as San Francisco may be like Sodom but they are not the same thing. Their judgments may indeed also be similar but they cannot be a “fulfillment”of what the Bible speaks of in regard to the prophecies concerning Babylon.

    The Babylon of Rev 18 can easily be identified with the Babylon of Jer 50,51. Over 15 direct or indirect quotes in Rev 18 come from Jer 50,51. This can easily be deduced with a cross reference Bible. TEN TIMES in Jer 50,51 Babylon is spoken of as being in the land of Chaldea. That’s NOT America!! The Babylon of Jeremiah’s day was never destroyed by the violence that Jeremiah predicted in Jer 50.51. This is a future judgment that will be fulfilled in a future rebuilt Babylon.

    Now, Mystery Babylon of Rev 17 is Rome- the Woman and its religious influence over the world- the Harlot. She sits on 7 mountains, has intercourse with the kings of the earth, the beast with ten horns that she sits on associates her with the Roman empire as identified by Dan 7:7. As the Harlot she represents false and idolatrous religion. Purple and scarlet and wealth untold. She sits on nations, tongues, peoples and multitudes. That is her pervasive religious influence world wide. She will be destroyed by the Beast and the ten kings in the middle of the 7 years (Rev 14:8) to make way for his exaltation as god.

    Babylon is fallen, is fallen. Babylon will fall twice. The Mystical- Rome and the literal Babylon.

    Babylon will exist down to the very last bowl judgment in Rev 16:19. Down to the final stage of God’s wrath. That is when she will be remembered before God to be destroyed. If America is Babylon then we are living in a very safe place which will not be destroyed until the final moments of the end of this age.

  191. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    Ad hominems are used when there is no reply.
    That is what was used with John the Baptist (demon possessed) , Christ (glutton/winebibber), and Paul (too much learning and lawbreaker).

    Attack the argument and not the person. If what is said is incorrect – feel free to pick it apart.

    Btw, didnt Jesus say “blessed is he who is not offended because of me”.
    What do you think He meant by that ?

    Shalom

  192. Yohanan Jan 22nd 2013

    “I’ll throw this out there since most USA Christians dont study the text nor the context imo.”

    “I hope this makes sense since it requires “contemplative thought” and most Americans are to busy to do this.”

    Call it what you will, sounds arrogant to me.

  193. jerry b baker Jan 22nd 2013

    Brother Andrew,
    Here is your post about the U.S. Constitution:

    One of the comments above contained this incredible statement-

    “One thing that is not talked about alot here is that our constitution was God given, meaning it parallels God’s commandments. It was inspired by Him.”

    Listen, this is utter deception. And it is at the root of a lot of the confusion that Americans have about mixing Christianity with Nationalism – the Idolatry of the nation.

    The Constitution is not “Christian”. Many of the men who were behind it were known Deists and Freemasons. No doubt they were very upright, decent and honorable men. But to say that the US Constitution “parallels God’s Commandments” – this is outright deception and so harmful!!

    Please be aware of the terrible confusion this causes.

    America is not Christianity – and Christianity is not America.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

    You stated what the liberals here say about our forefathers but not what they themselves said! If you actually read the writings of 95% of the founding fathers of the United States of America, they were devout Christians and quoted the Scripture regularly in their daily lives. George Washington was said to be a freemason but it is a fact that he was shot many times by Indians including a Chief who came to him and told him that he and his braves braves were crack shots and had hit him many times and they came to see him because they wanted to meet his God that protected him from their bullets! An Historical Fact: The bullets went through George Washington’s outer coat but stopped there! I guess satan protected him? Andrew, read the whole U.S. Constitution it is based entirely on the precepts in the Word of God!
    What bothers me more than any of this is the fact that your website is “prophetic” and yet you don’t believe that what is happening in this country has anything to do with the end of this present age? You stated: “just a civil war”. Brother Andrew, we are living in the last days! We are about to enter into the great tribulation and the Church will be here from the beginning of it until the end of it! At the LAST Trumpet the dead in Christ will rise and we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. Right before the Wrath of God is poured out on the earth! Oh and the man of sin the son of perdition will be revealed to who? To the only people on earth who will recognize him: (the Church)! This guy will be the one who brings Israel and the Arabs into a seven year peace treaty! We (the Church) are going to witness all of these things and the assault on America is the beginning of the time of sorrows and the whole world is going to be drawn into it!
    Andrew, I’m sorry to say this but you still have a chip on your shoulder because of the trouble you had with the authorities in the USA and it comes out in your judgments about this country. America is not the country it was when God established her but God did establish the United States of America and she was used by Him to evangelize the whole world and for the same reason, America has a stricter judgment! Selah….

  194. You punish your child not from hate but from love. You hate what a person does, not who they are. You do not have to hate an enemy but love them as you resist or make war with them.
    If Christians never fought back or resisted, I wouldn’t be typing this right now.
    When the floods came, a sheriff went by the old mans house to save him. The old man said “No thanks- the Lord will save me”! Then the waters rose more and a man in a boat came by to save the old man, yet the old man said; “No thanks- the Lord will save me”! As the old man was on the roof of his home to escape the rising waters a helicopter came by to save him. The old man said; “No thanks- the Lord will save me”! The old man drowned and standing at Heavens Gates the old man asked the Lord- “Lord, why did you not save me”? The Lord said; “I sent the sheriff, a boat and a helicopter- what else did you want”?
    God helps us help ourselves. He gives us the power and faith to overcome. Sometimes peacefully, sometimes forcefully, but by Gods will in any case.
    Ask God for guidance and go with what he instructs in your heart. Don’t sit and wait for someone else to save you if it is Gods will for you to act and at least make an effort in faith.
    For the most part, a person fights back not from hate but from fear and the natural instinct to survive and prevent evil from overcoming righteousness.
    If you knew a man was going to murder 100 innocent women and children and you could stop him in only one way and that was to kill him- would you do it? Would you do it from hate or fear or love? Love for the innocent? If you did kill for hate- it is wrong. If you kill for selfishness, greed, power or lust and other- it is wrong.
    I battle these ideas every spiritually day. Who has the real answer? Who knows they are not being deceived from the truth or Gods will?
    I am assured that if you do what you think is Gods will, then it was Gods will you thought you were doing and God will see it that way.
    Remember, it is God who calls you- you do not call him unto you yourself against his will.
    I pray evil to be vanished from the earth, but I must understand that it will be Gods will be done- and in his time- in his way.

  195. RevelationWriter Jan 22nd 2013

    - Yes, there’s the literal reading of The Land Masses.

    - But remember Jerusalem is also ‘Spiritually Called Sodom & Egypt”. – Rev.11:8

  196. It sure is going to be hard to witness to a bunch of dead Americans, Babylonians, whatever you want to call them after the government collects all the guns and slaughters all the occupants with the help of foreign troops. Ok, so they aren’t my brothers and I’m not their keeper and most won’t listen when I try to preach to them as it is. Even most conservative church members won’t listen when you tell them that a slaughter is coming to our nation, because they don’t know history and they believe that man is basically good natured.

    Kind of leaves us in a dilemma as to what to do doesn’t it.

  197. Andrew Jan 22nd 2013

    So Jay – if a government person comes to arrest or take you away, you plan to simply shoot him? Is that what Jesus would do?

    -Andrew

  198. Tony Cross Jan 22nd 2013

    Prophetically in the book of Isaiah, America is referred to as “Egypt”
    The kingdom of Egypt was the most powerful of it’s day and in these final days America has become the “Greater “Egypt.”

    With this thought in mind we can look at Isaiah chapter 19. There we are told in the American Standard Version bible;

    “Isa 19:1-4 The burden of Egypt. Behold, Jehovah rideth upon a swift cloud, and cometh unto Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
    And I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbor; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.
    And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst of it; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek unto the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
    And I will give over the Egyptians into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts.

  199. Meagan Jan 22nd 2013

    What about spiritual warfare? I wanted to do spiritual warfare. There are advice of me how to do spiritual warfare?

  200. is america in trouble? are they heading for civil unrest? is agenda 21 of united nations going to impact christians globally? is god judgeing america? can we as christians do anything to avert gods judgement? can we petition govt when ungodly law changes or do we close eyes? ive heard it said recently that if god does not judge america then hes going to have to apoligise to sodom. if revival can come through repentance starting with us, what can we do to encourage repentance, and to let our voice be heard? do we passively resist or do we endure to the end? We can know the seasons that we are in right? if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will i hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land. do we stay in ignorant bliss? and look up for our redemption draweth nigh, or how many souls can we bring to repentance through the knowledge of our lord jesus christ, knowing that it is through the forbearance of god not willing that any should perish that god hasnt judged the world already?

  201. antipas4yahshua Jan 22nd 2013

    @Andrew – I’ll be your huckleberry.

    It is difficult to say what to do in a situation. Talk is cheap and what actually happens in in life vs speculation is vastly different.

    - G_D warns His servants/prophets. I have read it, seen it in other peoples lives as well as my own. G_d’s steps are gradual and with full preparation.

    The real concern is denying Christ or “the hour of temptation” to obey Christ knowing His perfect will. Christ set His face as flint – as mentioned 7 times (perfection) in Isaiah knowing what was ahead of Him.

    When it came to using a sword in good intentions to defend Christ – Christ healed the mans ear – “permit this”. Peter was told how he was going to go and Paul willingly went into Jerusalem knowing this since he had a vision from Christ Himself saying He would.

    Btw, I am in agreement not to take arms against the American government. and not take part in a civil.
    However, I have no problem taking arms against foreign invaders or criminals.

    Shalom

  202. No Andrew, I’m pro-government like Romans says. Legitimate government authority is not a terror to good works, but to evildoers. Granted, in the last days men will call good evil and evil good.
    All I said was that it is going to be difficult to witness to all those dead people if they give up their guns and get slaughtered as usually happens in history. Regardless of who does it. Personally, I don’t believe government weapons confiscation will be an issue here as it is in other countries because too many people are armed for the government to take them all. After the first 20 or 30 well publicized raids, I wouldn’t want to be on a SWAT team. In fact, I think the globalists who have hijacked the federal government actually want everybody to arm to the teeth so that when the money collapses and the food supply is gone, Americans will shoot each other to get what is left over. But then we haven’t factored in the weaponized diseases that Maryland and other labs will turn loose on the population, natural disasters and all the rest. All just a part of the United Nations world population reduction plan. You see, the devil doesn’t care who does the killing as long as dead souls keep landing in hell before they can hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The moment all this begins in earnest, many souls will no longer be available to witness to. But then I could be wrong about some of this.

    What do you think Andrew?

  203. Andrew Jan 22nd 2013

    I think America may be about 4 – 5 “Waco Texas” incidents away from civil insurrection.

    In other words, those kinds of “raids” will cause such anger that civil unrest may result.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  204. An outsider looking in Jan 23rd 2013

    To replace a Democrat President with a Republican President does not add up when both parties are ruled by greed, corruption and deceit all done in the name of democracy and the constitution of the United States of America.
    It appears that christians who wanted and voted Republican indicated that they needed a man of religious statue despite him being a member of a cult (Mormon) and whose deputy is a member of the biggets cult in the world called the Roman Catholic Church. This does not add up too.
    And now due to the debate amongst American christians, they want guns and more guns to destroy their enemy if civil war erups in the USA. Again a disturbing factor if the enemy is a christian who is not a republican but a democrat.
    In the UK a few centuries ago, there was a king who thought himself to be above the law and maintained his position as a God given right. He had no care for the ordinary people he was supposed to serve but only served himself and the status quo around him who were just as bad. Civil war broke out between the Royalists and the Parliamentarians who wanted radical changes.
    Charles the First was deemed to be a religious man. Charles started off a true Protestant, but may have secretly started to follow Roman Catholicism in his later years. His wife was a Catholic, and his two sons were raised as Catholics. There is no doubt, Charles was greatly influenced in his private chambers by his wife and children.
    Oliver Cromwell leading the Parliamentarians, was a Protestant and a sworn enemy of the Roman Catholic Church. He was a very strict protestant called a Puritan. The Puritans were an influential minority of Protestants who were dissatisfied with the Elizabethan Settlement. The Puritans desired a simpler Church ritual and doctrine more in line with Calvinism –a return to what they conceived as the “pure” form of the early Christian Church.
    King Charles and his army were defeated by Cromwell. He was the first of the English monarchs to be put on trial for treason and it led to his execution. This event is one of the most famous in Stuart England’s history – and one of the most controversial. No law could be found in all England’s history that dealt with the trial of a monarch so the order setting up the court that was to try Charles was written by a Dutch lawyer called Issac Dorislaus and he based his work on an ancient Roman law which stated that a military body (in this case the government) could legally overthrow a tyrant.
    So in the days of old there were branches and religious orders who considered themselves part of christendom. Nothing has changed in the 21st century.
    What has happened todate is that wolves masquerading as sheep are now part of the modern western church and are acceptable making a mockery of christianity and allowed so.
    Are christians contesting and promoting a civil war for the USA by using the need for guns as laid out in their constitution?
    I can assure you that the christian church will never be united now or in the future when scripture declares that there will be a falling away, however the widely promoted world wide revival is promoted by christian leaders on so called christian tv.
    The christian church has become a joke throughout the western hemisphere, not by its appearance but by false teaching and prophetic utterances given by those on christian tv associated with Word and Faith and charismatic leadership.
    But then, the Body of Christ is a total different matter. You can keep churchianity which is slowly demeaning christianity.
    Praise the Lord for I am an adopted son of the King and no one can takes that away on planet earth.
    Hope this song will encourage everyone
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CMclLT_Hjg
    Blessings in the Lord Jesus Christ who is coming soon!

  205. Marilyn Crow Jan 23rd 2013

    Thank you very much to `Graham P` & `An outsider looking in,` for the leads to that wonderful music. It so encouraged me this morning & stirred my heart (emotions & spirit), & am looking forward to listening more of their inspired music & songs.

    God bless you both.

  206. Roger (NZ) Jan 23rd 2013

    This was posted on the previous thread – it still seems relevant as some are back to the defence of ‘self’ again – which is the opposite to Lord Jesus teachings..

    ***********************************************************

    Roger (NZ) Jan 19th 2013

    Yes Andrew – the rebellions, civil wars, uprising and unrest are increasing in number, and will continue to worsen if our understanding of scripture is correct.

    ++++++

    To All: Although Andrew did not mention ‘self-defence’ in the above article, may I ask of any who advocate the RKBA as self-defence, what are you defending..? Many have already answered above, saying – our loved ones, family members, and so on.

    As a born-again Christian, believer in, follower of, and disciple of Lord Jesus – surely we are brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, in the family of our Heavenly Father, Almighty God. I truly believe that He will defend His loved ones, the members of His family, to accomplish His purposes and plans.

    We who are born-again of God, are now of another kingdom – that of Christ Jesus, who is God, and as such, we submit to His Lordship over all of our individual lives.

    IF – we say that defend our mortal flesh against death, and do so by killing another – have we now just taken away the last chance of that ‘aggressor’ to hear about eternal life through Christ Jesus..? Better we share the gospel of Lord Jesus with all such ones, maybe some will repent, believe, and accept the truth of whom He is.

    The very best that we may do is to save our mortal flesh – yet this is not eternal, only our spirit will move on from this ‘house’ of flesh, blood and bone, to receive a glorified body, (a heavenly house) when Lord Jesus returns. We can take nothing else with us, our treasures are stored in Heaven, or should be.

    Is our faith in the saving of ‘self’, are do we truly trust that God knows the numbers of hairs on our head, and is perfectly capable of defending, protecting, caring for those who abide in Him.

    I suppose the question we all need to ask of ourself is, am I prepared to die for Christ Jesus..?

    Or, with my focus on ‘self-preservation’ – has my use of a weapon in ‘self-defense’ just killed someone who Lord Jesus brought to me, to hear about Him..?

    In His love,
    Roger

  207. Thank you Andrew for your faithfulness to hear from the Lord and then have the courage to preach those things regardless of cruel opposition. You remain in our prayers. We appreciate your thoughts on American Christianity. You see something that few Americans see because we in America are so steeped in false doctrine. American Nationalism IS idolatry, and it is alive and well here. Please continue to sound the alarm. The Nationalist voices have gotten so strident, so loud, so bitter, and so hateful that if it were possible, they would obliterate the voice of the Holy Spirit. Indeed Americans need your prayers. Nationalists have so stirred us up, that we have come to truly believe that our president is an evil tyrant bent on destroying our country. Now that we are hotly stirred up, we are stirred even more with the idea that we need to arm ourselves against our own government because the government is tyranical as per the teachings of people such as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News commentators, and some politicians. We have left the way of truth in droves while calling ourselves Christian, but this is a different gospel. We’ve come to believe that all we have to do is ‘stand for Christian values’ which include standing against 3 things: abortion, gay marriage, and anything that would interfere with our ‘religious freedoms’. These have been touted so highly that preaching the Gospel of Christ to sinners, preaching about purity and holiness are seldom to never mentioned. We’re already in the middle of a civil war of angry and hateful words. All we need now is to put the ammo in our guns and we can have a real war with blood shed.

  208. Andrew Jan 23rd 2013

    Sadly, Cara – you have hit the nail right on the head.

    Your comments are sadly so true.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  209. William Humphrey Jan 23rd 2013
  210. betty alexander Jan 23rd 2013

    Just a quick response because sometimes I wonder if you read the complete Bible. Because it seems that you’ve never heard of what Abraham did when Lot and his goods were taken, what David did and other of God’s people, not to mention what some of the prophets did all in the will of God.
    American definately need to REPENT big time and we are certainly under the judgement of God and when we are attached from outside that would be when Jerimah would be applied, because they were to be taken captive, but the people that stayed there were starved, were threatened and killed by their own governent as well as died from plagues. All because they did not repent and go out to the foreign invaders.
    I have to disagree with you about Christains in American loving guns, they on the most part do not.
    When Hitler took the Jews captive many Christians did nothing…they sang and prayed, but did not help them and their was no way to help them because the NAZI party took all the weapons, so even if there was a David, or Abraham in the group they could do nothing. Also, Jesus at time send his followers with nothing and other times said arm yourself.
    Please get balanced and if you say your a mature Saint please stop being surprised or offended when other Christains do not agree with you. Why are you saying such things?

  211. “But look at the New Testament: The Roman Empire was one of the most vile and corrupt governments that ever existed. And yet no where do the Lord or the Apostles call for a violent overthrow of the system.”

    No one is talking about overthrowing the government, thats a red herring, but rather defending against murdurous government aggression. And even if we were, the current government has lost its legitamacy and can rightfully be replaced under US common law, even by force of arms if necessary.

    The US is not Rome. Rome was a dictatorship. The US equivalent of Caesar is not the President but the People. We the People are the highest earthly power and authority in this land. A government which tries to take guns or violate the rights of the citizenry has gone beyond and lost its authority. It is no longer legitimate and Rom 13 no longer applies. We are the higher authority, not the Feds.

    And don’t tell me the Constitution and US law don’t matter, just the NT, and then go quoting Rom 13 we must obey government. If you’re going to refer to that then we must examine who is in authority under what.

    And look at the OT, which is there for our learning, the Israelites repeatedly defended themselves from invaders and insurrection. Even Christ told his disciples to buy a sword.

    Now if you are a true pacifist, if you would not lift a finger to defend yourself or your family from a murderous raping intruder then God be with you and may you be left alone and protected. But this conversation does not concern include you and stay out of it.

  212. harvestistipe Jan 23rd 2013

    Jay look around you now, when it all hits, there are going to be sooo many devistated in fear and paniced, it is actually already beginning to happen and many are going to be from the deceived Laodecia church, whom have been preached the prosperity deminion now doctrine, that God wants tem rich and the church will manage the wealth and take diminion of the world.

    My heart breaks for these deceived fleshly church people , can you believe many will commit suscide or go crazy? some resort to drugs or drinking whom claim the name of Christ Jesus. this is already a real situation already. America will be sick with grief when all hell breaks lose here, many will turn to a man that has all the answers, the antichrist, we must reach as many as we can now! if thirty turn our message down and one hears the truth and is saved all of heaven rejoyces over one lost soul that becomes saved.

    OK How about the deceived pastors that bought into the lies I believe some will be devestated as they see what they have done some will weep between the pourch and the alter and will need us to helppull a few from the fires of hell and seek to see them restored huh! some even saved themselves.

    Why wait, why not seek to speak to them NOW! there is a huge oppertunity out here now, and it is going to increase,

    The harvest is ripe, and is going to increase, we must be prayed up and filled with the oly Spirit daily a ready vessel to reach out with he mercy of God that some may repent and be saved.

    The most important thing in this evil world, right now is a carrier of the light of Jesus empowered by the Holy Spirit for service. Nothing, nothing is more important than being Jesus witness in this hour in which we are living, father I pray some have ears to hear and a spirit to receive this truth, this is what Jesus is busy doing in this hour readying his saints, placing in their hearts and spirit to reach those whom are lost, if he is truely our first love if we truely believe he came to set the captives free all else is second to our service and relationship to Jesus in this hour.

  213. harvestistipe Jan 23rd 2013

    We witnessed the fear heard of thoughts of suscide and devestation in the lives of many of Christ saints from the Todd Bently deception and his fall, their false spiritualization and idol fell when they thought he was bringing revival and he brought demons and lies and great deception
    .
    What is happening now on a small scale right now is going to become massive world wide people are not going to know how to handle what is coming, we are his light Jesus is their hope when there will seem to be no hope.
    ,

  214. ROGER FROM NEW ZEALOND makes A WONDERFUL POINT
    AMEN roger.
    HEY read acts tonight peoples…………..and PRAISE THE LORD.
    HE allowed peter and them to be put in prison…………
    THEN…………………………after a earthquake…………
    TO LET THEM OUT………………………
    THE jailor was about TO KILL HIMSELF…………
    MOST would have said HEY LET HIM DO IT………….WHICH IS EIVL OF COURSE………….
    BUT NOT THE APOSLTES…………..they LOVED their enemies SO MUCH……………..HE SAID NO………….
    AND GUESS WHAT that JAILOR came TO JESUS.
    AND the aposltes instead of escaping………….stayed IN PRISON
    THEN were realeased.
    I THINK many hearts on in a EVIL PLACE.
    ROGER…………………..YOU RIGHT ON.
    WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON LOVING OUR ENEMIES
    CAUSE i got news…………………..THE ONLY REASON any who is saved has bEEN saved and forgvine…………
    WAS FOR WHAT JESUS DID……….
    and guess what………………..have a read in romans five
    and first corinthians five………..
    WE were reconcilded WHILE ENEMIES……………
    YEAH………………….they way the SEE our enemy
    adn what we do TO OUR ENEMY………….
    MAKES or breaks US. I suggest to many
    a LIL less time surfing the internet
    and MASSIVE TIME reading the new testament
    OVER and OVER and over again.
    FALLING away from sound doctrine…………….is NOW in many
    hearts……………..
    I love you all. I really do love you all.
    I almost was not even going to post again. SUCH a heaviness and sadness in my heart for many who wont LOVE their enemies as did JESUS, as paul, as stephen etc……….
    I will pray for us all. WE all NEEED GOD s GRACE in our hearts.
    TO live and walk as did CHRIST. amen.
    WE muste Love ALL……………….
    AND learn this……………..AND to NOT SIN as well.
    AGAIN i stress READ the bible……………..HOURS daily.
    MAKE the time……………………CHRIST will give thee understadning. TEST ME ON THIS.
    JUST put down all other things……………..and READ only the bible
    with a heart to for HIM. Test this. amen.

  215. Indeed, America will be invaded and divided in more ways than one. The Judgments of God are upon the whole world. Revelation 13 will be fulfilled and life as we know it now will be changed forever.

    What’s coming will most certainly test us all and every living soul on this earth will find out exactly who they serve and what’s really inside their hearts and minds.

    The Spirit and the bride say ‘come Lord Jesus’.

  216. antipas4yahshua Jan 23rd 2013

    Food for thought…..

    Rev 11:15
    If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and consumes their enemies; if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

    Would suggest going back and reading context and praying about it.

    Shalom

    Btw, strict obedience plays a serious part before G_D is going to give this to elect remanent.

  217. Amen, we have a right to defend ourselves. We are not sheep to be led to the slaugter by the wicked. God laws are higher and we are being forced to violate God’s laws by evil men in high places. We are not to obey our civil authorities in this instance. Only in as much as they themselves submit to God and execute His righteousness and justice. It is utter ignorance of God’s Word to suggest we are to just be led away and submit to evil. We are not to be overcome by evil. We may die for Christ, but that means we may die fighting against evil. Not just die in passivity.

    I also want to say that it seems there is a certain smugness
    from other Christians outside the US who are pointing the finger
    at our demise and sins. A certain self righteousness in some
    people. Not all. I am not talking about you Andrew. As I said,
    any nation that has not sinned, or in sin please throw the first stone
    over the ocean at us.

    About weapons, didn’t Peter have a sword in the garden? Did not Christ tell them to take a sword on their journey? Of course God is our defense and we must obey Him. Some have been used in captivity to bring others to the Lord. Some were spared and not carried away and were left behind. We are liviing in a different culture and ways. Same sins and evil.

    Look, the King told Daniel not to pray to God daily. He did not
    obey his authority or ruler. He prayed anyways. God spared him.
    David did NOT submit to Saul’s full authority, otherwise he would have been killed. He resisted and ran, he did not go willingly to the slaughter my brothers and sisters. David did not kill Saul when he had the chance and in that way he respected God’s anointed.
    What about the three in the furnace? Didn’t they violate an order?
    God spared them. They didn’t obey the rulers and give in to ungodly men or laws. They didn’t take up swords either.

    Neither are we to render evil to our leaders. God will deal with them and we are to pray. But be subject to evil? No. And that does not mean we are resisting God’s judgement. God will lead us all individually as to what, where and when. We have to believe Psalms 91. We will be under the shadow of His wings and WE WILL SEE the destruction of the wicked from the safety of His wings. We will witness God’s punishment with our own eyes when we abide in Him.

    And we ARE to rejoice at the destruction of evil and wicked people. It says again from the bible we are to REJOICE in the destruction of the wicked people, not mourn or cry. Because the enemies of God are our enemies. He is just and fair in all His judgements.

    To antipas4yahshua— I had been praying for years over a passage in Jude about why Michael was fighting over Moses body. I got what I think is the answer recently. About the two witnesses. We have assumed Elijah and Enoch. But I believe it is Elijah and Moses. We are told that God, himself, buried Moses body. We know by Jude that God had a powerful angel do it. We are told because God did not want the people making a memorial out of the grave and commiting idolatry which they were prone to do.

    But then we have the Mt. of transfiguration event. Moses and Elijah discussing with Christ what was to come.

    Okay so back to scripture in that man is appointed once to die and Elijah and Enoch never did see death. But does it say that man is not appointed to death twice in this life? Because we see clearly that man has died twice sometimes—Lazarus, died, raised and very clearly had to die again. Those raised from the dead in scripture also, they had to die again at some point. Twice.

    So just think about it, look up all the scriptures. I believe the reason that satan wanted Moses body is so that he could not come back again as a witness. Nothing else makes sense. Why would the devil want his body? It was already to be hidden from the people. There is more on this I could share but space is limited.
    God is not limited in life and death. We are. He gives, He takes.
    There are some mysteries to still be uncovered, I love it. I love the Word, no matter how many years you spend it in, you always learn something more or new.

    God bless everyone and let us not be divided. Yes America is under judgment, yes more disasters and life to lose, more evil.
    But God will protect His true followers and under His wings will we see the demise of the wicked.

  218. Johannan Baptiste Jan 23rd 2013

    I for one will not allow my wife or daughters to be lead like sheep to the slaughter. Raped and violated by those who do not value life or liberty. Without liberty, there is no life. Without Christ, there is no life. Our only promise is with Him. It is coming. He is coming. There will be much sorrows and wailing. Either way. Be ready. The strong man cometh in the night.

  219. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    I proposed this question earlier with no response so I will present it again.

    If the USA were to be divided and the individual States to become separate sovereign nations, then should Christians get involved in the government of these States at the beginning in order to make them Christian friendly nations that will promote the Gospel, or should we just sit by and let the unsaved have the government to rule over us?

  220. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    BTW this thread is no longer about gun control, but a Christian response to a civil war in the USA.

  221. Sheeja John Jan 23rd 2013

    YHWH deals with each and every person in a unique manner. He deals with each and every situation in a very distinct way. So DO NOT JUDGE YOUR BROTHER. Each one will give an account for THEMSELVES and not for another. Make sure that you are hearing YAHWEH speak to you through HIS SPIRIT and not another.
    Yeshua gave us the following directives:
    #1 – Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
    #2 – Beware of men. (they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues)
    #3 – When they deliver you up, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT HOW or WHAT YOU SHOULD SPEAK. For IT WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU IN THAT HOUR WHAT YOU SHOULD SPEAK; FOR IT IS NOT YOU WHO SPEAK BUT THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER WHO SPEAKS IN YOU.
    # 4 – You will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But HE WHO ENDURES TO THE END WILL BE SAVED.
    #5 – BUT WHEN THEY PERSECUTE YOU IN THIS CITY F L E E TO ANOTHER.
    ————————————————————————————
    - Fixing our gaze upon HIM will spare us from unnecessary heartaches and troubles. It will make us bold to approach HIM, and to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
    - Let not our focus be on the trouble/persecution, but on YAHWEH. Let us not magnify the problem, but HIS NAME and HE will either deliver us and reveal HIMSELF through us; or HE will give us the grace to go through and come out victorious on the other side.
    - If any of you lacks wisdom (wisdom to understand and deal with the situation facing you) let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

  222. Thomast77 Jan 23rd 2013

    Andrew, What if the government were coming to take you to a concentration camp? Would you go willingly? Did you know that the US Government already has Camps setup for this purpose? And that Government agencies have written documents for law enforcement that says Christians and people who believe in the Constitution are being labelled domestic terrorists. This is the same thing Hitler did in Germany. History is repeating itself. Would you have then told the 6 million Gassed Jews that they have no right to defend themselves??? That they need to lay down their arms so they can have a Daniel experience?!? I think you are focusing your attention in the wrong area. Why don’t you do an article on the US One World Government that is being setup as prophesied in Revelations. The US is behind all this Globalization that is setting up the One World Government. The US is the beast system of Revelations. I agree that America is due for God’s wrath and I do not think it will be very pretty. I personally do not believe there will be a civil war. I think we are headed for Global Economic Collapse bringing about Riots, looting and roving gangs. To be followed by Martial Law. And some serious Natural Disasters which are Already on the rise. America and the world are about to experience God’s wrath in a big way. In fact it is has already been happening for years now. But I can feel it. Something big is coming. I just want to go hide in a forest or something. You better believe Yeshua is coming soon!!! Any comment Andrew?

  223. Andrew Jan 23rd 2013

    I agree about bad economic times continuing and getting worse.

    In the US situation, if the Government came to put me and my family in a camp right now, I’m sure I would go with them rather than start shooting people. What would Jesus do?

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  224. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    Not to make any judgment on this, I ran across a statistic that is quite amazing.
    As a response to those claiming it would be suicide for the civilian people of the USA to rebel against the army of the USA.

    There are aprox. 1,400,000 personnel in the USA Military.

    There were over 11,000,000 big game tags sold to hunters in the USA

    Also, many in the military would choose to side with the “rebels” if it came down to actual battle.

    Just something to think about.

  225. john berry Jan 23rd 2013

    The babylonians castrated those who went into captivity. Don’t go willingly…that is really bad advice. Also, dreams are often a warning so it may not come true. I am also not for not taking sides against an evil government. It is like all the advice is from Satan which kind of throws out the whole thing…almost. A lot of the dreams and visions have been around for a while…so somewhat confirmed.

  226. Everyone go back and read Caras……………post………..
    these days are truly evil.
    And the enemy has the left focused on the left
    the right focused on the right.
    all the while both sides are pitted against one another…..
    This was And is NOT the gosple.
    THANK YOU CARA…………………….for trying to help.
    Its so sad to watch and see.
    The NWO needs this………………new age…………..etc
    they need the division so as to have the chaose
    and thefear needed to have Complet control.
    I pray for us all. The first love has long been abandoned
    by many. THE LOVE OF GOD and men.
    THE LOVE of the TRUTH.
    and has been replaced mainly with new age left liberal doctrine
    or right wing hate , which hate is murder and will lead to killing
    another. the fruits of this is death. and i fear for many.
    Because this LIFE is but a vapour. And why people
    cling to this life, over the reward of eternal life…………..is sad.
    But i only pray for them. THese are truly evil days.
    There are a few of us who appear likeminded.
    But for the most part the majority are either left new age liberal
    agenda social gosple………………or right wing national
    gosple. Either way its sad. I say Be HEAVEN kingdom minded
    and focus all time and energy on warning the lost
    of the DIRE need of Christ. amen.

  227. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    May I give a scenario of how the “shooting” would happen. Many of you are not realistic in your questions and/or claims whether or not you would shoot another.
    It is not a case of someone coming to your door and telling you they are going to haul you away to a camp, or even demand you surrender all your guns to them, and then your would perhaps pull out a gun, point it at the person and shoot them then and there. That is not at all what would happen.
    What would happen is more like this.
    Those who are known to have many guns would be moved on much like the Ruby Ridge and Waco situations. The shooting would have already begun. There would be reports of armed forces taking people away.
    Those in opposition would rally together and begin to make a stand in much higher numbers. They would make demands against those in authority to call off their forces or be met with force. On and on it would go. Many would not have much of a choice but to decide whether to help and take up arms, join the battle, not take up arms, surrender to the forces and be taken away, whatever.
    I know this doesn’t change your decision, nor should it, but you cannot just assume that the “shooting” of some one would just be pointing a gun in their face and pulling the trigger. It is not cold blooded murder that we are discussing here.

  228. Marilyn Crow Jan 23rd 2013

    `You beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

    And have mercy on some who are doubting; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

    Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, & to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

    To the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion & authority, before all time & now & forever. Amen.` (Jude 20 – 25)

    I thought it time for an encouragement. I so appreciate all those who are standing on the truth of our eternal home in Christ Jesus.

  229. Marilyn Crow Jan 23rd 2013

    Donald N

    Your post hadn`t gone up when I did mine. But that is a more realistic situation. The time is fast approaching when the `line in the sand,` is drawn & we are all faced with important decisions. How good it is to come on a forum like this where we can read, comment & think through these things.

  230. Evangelical Gokuism Jan 23rd 2013

    Andrew, What if the government were coming to take you to a concentration camp where the scientists were going to use nanotech science to turn you into an android? Would you go with them knowing that you would be injected with self-replicating nanobots that would transform you into an cyborg with no free will or emotions of any kind? Did you know that Transhumanism is a branch of science that is dedicated to merging mankind with machine, they call this union the singularity. I heard a reporter ask a scientist what will happen to the human race by 2040? The scientist smiled “when the singularity arrives, the human race as you know it will no longer exist”. You make the claim that self-defense is wrong in every case and that no one should defend their family no matter what. The question I would ask myself is what would Son Goku do?

  231. Thomast77 Jan 23rd 2013

    Well let’s hope it never comes civil war. I personally would probably hide in the deep woods. But I am more worried about a Global Economic Collapse. I am starting to think that an EMP from a solar flare would be a blessing as it would slow down satans plans. It would be rough going though. Dark Dark days are on the horizon.

  232. Andrew Jan 23rd 2013

    I never made the claim that self-defense was wrong in every case

    Nor do I claim to be a “pacifist”

    That is not what all this is about

    Please read it again

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  233. Marianne Merwick Jan 23rd 2013

    Since it is well known that the Lord will pour out judgment on this nation and others for the wickedness and turning our backs on the truth in His Word, obviously there will be wholesale slaughter of Christians by the wicked – especially those who chose not to defend themselves.
    This is a video worthy of consideration and not to be taken lightly.

    http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=E2BF95DC2CBE9A1ED0E3E5B347911D5E

  234. Thomast77 Jan 23rd 2013

    I will add this as well. There are many militias in this country that have been preparing for this moment. I am not a member of any militia and I most certainly am not going to go out looking for trouble or war with my government. I would rather hide and pray it will not find me. Maybe God will blind them and they will pass right by me. Pray for America Brothers and not just for America but this world because we are so close to seeing the rise of the Anti-Christ and his One World Government. It is all falling into place. God Bless You all

  235. Tears of The Sun… Clearing the village. Get ready.

  236. Serenity Jan 23rd 2013

    If only we were meditating day and night on Scripture, as someone above exhorts us to do.

    Eg, Exodus 22: 2 -3 makes it clear that if an evildoer breaks into a house in the dark and dies because the householder took a swing at him in self-defense, there is no guilt in that. But if the householder sees the evildoer coming and murders him before he does his evil deed, the householder is guilty of murder.

    When Elisha foresaw in the Spirit what cruel deaths Hazael would inflict upon Israelites, he wept, but he did not call for Hazael to be put to death immediately, before he did the evil deeds. God had anointed Hazael king of Syria.

    ‘Thou shalt not kill’ a human being, is a basic law of God.

    A lot of the comments are hypothetical. If we abide in Christ and build our relationship with Him and keep in His Word and His Spirit, HE will keep us from what would overwhelm us. We will know His guidance. Amen !

  237. Serenity Jan 23rd 2013

    To DonaldN – It seems unlikely to me that different countries will be set up on US soil in response to a breakup of the Union. They would surely be shortlived and not truly democratic. I understand that the states are already, or are about to become, much more autonomous.

    If such did happen, I would prefer to withdraw and intercede with others for the will of the Lord to be done. (As Rees Howells and others did in Wales in WW2.)
    NOW is the time to reach out with the gospel.
    ‘Democracy is dead’ is what I was told.

    Meagan – About spiritual warfare … I would be spending much time praying about the concerns that are already on my heart AND asking the Lord to put me into a gathering of intercessors, even with just one other ‘called’ person.
    A life separate from love of self and worldliness is also essential. God bless you.

  238. Marilyn Crow Jan 23rd 2013

    Good to hear Serenity amid such fearful voices.

  239. Marilyn Crow Jan 23rd 2013

    Where is America in God`s Word.

    I thought it would be good to see what God says in His word concerning America. Having been a teacher I will pose questions as this helps us to think for ourselves, with the Holy Spirit`s guidance.

    The world calls the greatest Federations, the Big 4. Do you know who they are?

    You were right if you said –

    1.Great Britain & America, (The Commonwealth & America)
    2.The Russian Federation. (Russia & all its former states)
    3. The European Union.
    4. The United nations.

    The first 3 are Super powers but the United nations is subservient
    to the others.

    So the world recognizes these super powers but God in His sovereignty knew this & told a prophet in the Old Testament 1,000`s of years before, that these super powers would arise in the last days of the gentiles ruling the world.

    So where is America & these super powers mentioned?
    God describes their character as `beastly` & show us the heraldic emblem of each power.

    1. Great Britain ……….
    America……….
    2. Russia ……..
    3. European Union……..
    4 This power has yet to rise to its full potential. ………

    The question is, `What animal does each super power use to represent itself?

    Now you can look up the Bible or a concordance & see what God says about them. There are other scriptures that tell us what they are doing now & what their part in the Global Government is.

    Happy discovering. Marilyn.

  240. Christie Dasaro Jan 23rd 2013

    In history, Christians have never fought the government of the day, instead, they have lived and stood firm in God’s principles and ordinances and eventually, the government would make a decree that people should only serve the God of the Christians, e.g., Shedrach, Abednego, Mesharch in the furnace of fire, Daniel in the lion den, Esther,etc.
    I will advise that the Christians in America should ask God for grace, strength and endurance to wait and watch in prayers to see God bring government with evil principles down to their knees. God is not a respecter of persons, He will certainly do what He has decreed for his own glory. Americans truly need God’s punishment and discipline for the sake of your children if they must experience the future.
    In Nigeria, we have been passing through severe persecutions by the Muslims, but we pray that the Lord will help us to endure the persecutions so that the Muslims will be saved as they see the power of God in our lives.

  241. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    Where there is physical self defense, there can be no persecution.Self- defense in retaliating physically is the door that closes the door of persecution.If every christian around the world have Guns , weapons, etc specifically for physical self defense , then no christian will suffer persecution. It will just be Wars etc.So when professing “christian ” cry” we will attack physically with self defense” then they are simply closing the door of persecution. They are simply saying “no to persecution”, “no to laying down our lives” . They are simply saying “obedience to Christ teachings do not have to go as far as dying for him”.” When it can led to death it is better to disobey Christ teaching , than die obeying his teachings”. It is a denial of the cross and we still love talking about it.That is wrong.
    of course our will power of obeying Christ even in death may disappoint us as did peter but it is good to know this basic foundation truth, so that knowing how far we are weak in obedience to Christ teachings , we will daily run to Him in quality devotion , to make the yokes of this teachings a light burden. Christ teachings are far higher than our will power , but that is because he want us to know without him we cannot live his words in fullness and this realization will draw us daily to him.
    Some are saying Christ sent his disciples with swords but that is not true to preach the gospel. It was only in the garden of Gethsemane that he told them to buy swords but still told them never to use swords as a means of self defense, for those use the sword will perish by the swords.
    Friends Christ teachings are higher than our self ability , we must simple confess that . Justifying our disobedience to his teaching will never make us right in his sight. Let us daily run to him and give him quality time from our so much busy live and go to Him who can only make us justify in his sight by giving us divine strength to do his will.

  242. Well said Christie & many others saying the same. this is the kind of spirit & talk that encourages a person.
    The Earth is the Lords & the fullness thereof the world & they that dwell therein.
    Will the Lod of the whole earth not do whats right?
    Job 38:1 And Jehovah answered Job out of the tempest, and said,
    Job 38:2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
    Job 38:3 Now gird up your loins like a man; for I will ask of you, and you teach Me.
    Job 38:4 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding!
    Job 38:5 Who has set its measurements, for you know? Or who has stretched the line on it?
    Job 38:6 On what are its bases sunk, or who cast its cornerstone,
    Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
    Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it broke forth as it came from the womb?
    Job 38:9 When I made the clouds its robe, and darkness its navel-band,
    Job 38:10 and set My limit on it, and set bars and doors,
    Job 38:11 and I said, You shall come to here, but no further; and here your proud waves shall stop.
    God is not accountable to us my friends. He will do what is right.
    The name of the Lord is a strong tower & the righteous run to it and are safe.
    Be Blessed

  243. Pastor Keith Jan 23rd 2013

    “But the Lord said unto him, (Ananias) Go thy way; for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel; for I will show him how great things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” Acts 9: 15-16

    God spoke to Ananias, just after the conversion of Saul of Tarsus on the Damascus road. He gave Ananias the task of going to Saul to lay his hands upon him that he might receive his sight back. God also revealed to Ananias that Saul, later re-named Paul, had to suffer many things in his calling to preach the gospel.

    Many today boast of a calling to preach, but are they prepared to suffer for the sake of the gospel? We may say “that was for Paul in his day” but God’s word shows us clearly that suffering is a part of serving Jesus Christ in the cause of the gospel, in any age.

    “If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us” 2 Tim. 2:12

    “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together” Romans 8:17

    “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life, for My sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it” Mark 8:35

    In these end times, and during this present end time apostasy, we hear much of positive confession, name it, claim it, demanding healing and deliverance from just about every situation that we find ourselves in and don’t like. Let me make it clear that I do believe in divine healing and deliverance. They are miracles of God’s grace. But I don’t believe they are ours by right, or that we should expect them every time.

    Where are the ‘Pauls’ today? Where are the people who are prepared to lose all for Christ and the gospel? Where are those who are willing to deny themselves in the service of God?

    “Whosoever will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” Mark 8:34

    Over the years of my pastorate, I have met many who declared total allegiance to the work of Christ. They declared themselves to be faithful and supportive of the work. But today? They are long gone. Some got offended at the truth I have preached, some grew tired and weary of service. Some wandered into false doctrines and proved themselves to be part of churchainity instead of Christianity.

    Some boast of growing Churches and Church plants, I can boast of a diminishing fellowship, at one point almost almost emptying it, because in these last days, people can’t endure sound doctrine. (2 Tim. 4:3) But one thing I do know, I have been as faithful as I’ve known how to be, in my calling to preach the truth whatever the cost.

    Are you prepared to count the cost? Are you prepared to suffer for what God has called you to do?

    For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he hath sufficient to finish it?” Luke 14:28

    Don’t listen to the false teachers who promise flowery beds of ease, are you willing to COUNT THE COST and give all in the service of Christ and the gospel?

    “Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, UNMOVABLE, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord” 1 Cor. 15:58

    So if you are in service for the Lord, be FAITHFUL! COUNT THE COST and be prepared to lose everything for Christ’s sake. He gave up all to save you, are you willing to give up all to serve Him?

  244. matthew Jan 23rd 2013

    Hi, just a question for Andrew Strom: Andrew, are you sure you are on the right track in publishing this original post and facilitating this discussion on here at this time? You may be heading back into many of the problems you had with your old forum,which you rightly took off the previous website. These speculations can easily distract from what is after all a revival website, where, presumable, you want the emphasis to be teaching about and praying for revival. Those looking for that may well quietly head off elsewhere. All the best, Matthew.

  245. Andrew Jan 23rd 2013

    It has always been a “prophetic” website also, my friend

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  246. jerry b baker Jan 23rd 2013

    I agree about bad economic times continuing and getting worse.
    In the US situation, if the Government came to put me and my family in a camp right now, I’m sure I would go with them rather than start shooting people. What would Jesus do?
    Bless you!
    Andrew

    6 Million Jews did just that in Germany and the eastern European countries and they were murdered because by the time they realized that the German’s were going to destroy them all, they were already too weak to fight for their lives! If you want to let your family be taken to the gas chambers, fine but don’t try to justify telling anyone besides your family to comply with the government’s illegal laws. Those laws were changed from the civil, righteous laws and they were to perverted laws that took 6 million Jews and 6 million other people’s humanity away from them! Giving the German government the legal right to murder those millions of people! Anyone who doesn’t protect their family is a coward and deserves what they get but not what they cause their family to endure!

  247. Psalm 91 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Pr Michael

  248. watchful Jan 23rd 2013

    Our God is never short of resources and He has certainly not left us defenseless…….who touches us touches the apple of His eye and His reaction on our behalf is often swift. He has gone before us in everything and is ready for any eventuality because He already knows about it long before it happens. When we are in faith we are in the strong tower, but when we are in the flesh and relying on self we are outside the strong tower. It’s like “lying down” on the inside, it is then we are in His pasture/sheepfold and He being a faithful Shepherd surely does defend His sheep when it is His will to do so. He has proven it to me more than once, and we all have read numerous testimonies over the years. We can also ask for wisdom for our circumstances because our God is much more clever than man, and the wisdom He gives allows us to remain as harmless as doves. Just look at Jesus who was never short of wisdom in answering His accusers, they just could never catch Him indicting Himself even while always speaking the truth, and in the end they had to resort to false claims against Him! The Father led Him where to go and when, and He was even able to slip through an angry crowd who couldn’t seem to get their hands on Him. This is no problem for our Mighty God. Nobody could take Jesus’ life until it was it was time for Him to lay it down….and we are called to be like Him, to follow Him. He will keep us in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him. Keeping our minds stayed on Him is staying in faith, staying in the Spirit.

    But that said, there is also something in that we must not be presumptuous or foolish, or put God to the test – when we are not in faith, not in the Spirit, when we are outside the strong tower we had better be prepared to just do the common sense thing unless we are checked or instructed otherwise by the Holy Spirit, there seems to be a coming in and going out for the believer until all is perfected.

  249. The Old Testament gives us much knowledge of God and is a great source of inspiration; but it cannot be a guide for Christians with respect to, say, food, the Sabbath, sacrifices, laws of uncleanness, or our policy towards oppressive government. God commanded Israel to fight, resist, conquer, destroy women and children and animals–to cleanse Canaan of all idolators. Is this a model for Christians; should we look to Israel for our policy against our enemies? Or do we love our enemies, pray for them, and “resist not evil”? Should not Jesus, the apostles, and the early martyrs be our model? Jesus said, “You’ve heard it said by them of old times, but I say…” In other words, My way is different. Then He said: If anyone commands you to go one mile, go two; if anyone takes your cloak, give him your coat also. Don’t resist evil. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other cheek also. Does that sound like joining a militia? Does it sound like taking up arms against wicked Caesar? German Christians didn’t dare speak out against Hitler as they should have early on.
    Some did and suffered for it. Many protected Jews and were punished. When government commands us to go against conscience, civil disobedience–peaceful disobedience–is in order. We must obey God rather than man. But Scripture does not permit us to take up arms against government. In real life it’s almost never a matter of either/or: either submit meekly and let evil men do what they please without protest/or resist them by any means possible, even violence. Those are right who point the finger at the American church for its failure to be a holy, prophetic voice; for its failure as “salt and light”; and for thinking that the answer is political activism rather than prayer and the Gospel. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, political, worldly, but might through God…”

  250. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    Jerry b baker wrote:
    “Anyone who doesn’t protect their family is a coward and deserves what they get but not what they cause their family to endure!”
    Protect by how? at the extreme of killing others because they want to kill them or take there Guns from them ?
    So the eleven apostles who died as martyrs as history told us were cowards ? Paul was a coward for dying as a martyr ? The many millions who died , in church history even today around the world ,others with their families because of there faith in Christ were cowards?
    Don’t you think they might have know of a higher grace which neither you or I might have experience yet ? Don’t you think we all need a deeper relationship in the Lord , that we might have the grace to be faithful in Him , in His teachings even if it will require the lost of everything, like they did? Don’t you think obedience to the teachings of Christ is worth dying for ? Don’t you think it is even better even if we lose the whole world our families included than for us to disobey Christ teaching? I think what is we need here is the empowering energy to do the will of Christ , by a deeper relationship. True spiritual boldness is to have the grace to do the will of God even if it will cost our lives .And grace come from Christ , It is more of Christ we need.

  251. Journey Jan 23rd 2013

    I have read the comments, I have read the scriptures.
    Both sides still use the scriptures that support their side and leave others out.
    None have yet, nor ever will, come up with a “thus it is written” that will solve this discussion.
    Therefore, I have taken it upon myself to search out God on this issue.
    I have come up with the solution, direct from the Spirit of the Living God…

  252. Seems to me from reading your posts Andrew that you begin with statements that could draw intentional fire toward yourself. Stark comparisons have a way of promoting such responses. To then say your have become a target of sharp criticism is like setting up a straw man that you dare anyone to knock down or burn up. Both easily accomplished.

    Are we headed into just another cycle of punishment-repentance-God’s moving or are we truly headed into the last days when surrender to the coming forces will lead only to death because we would not denounce Christ or life and taking the mark. Going into captivity as a means of accepting God’s punishment is not easily assigned to the coming days. The forces of darkness have but one agenda and that is undying complete devotion without reservation.

    Your style of provking dialogue does make for good blogs I suppose. But appearing to be shocked by contrasting views smells too much like the “Reality TV” thats taking up space on prime time broadcasting.

  253. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    I live in the Pacific Northwest region of the USA. If there were a break up of states seceding from the union there would probably be 4 or 5 states in this area that would join together. The southern states would probably join together, since they already tried to leave once, Texas already has plans in the works to re establish themselves as a sovereign State, etc, etc.
    A very real reason for the break up of the USA is this:
    America has been a bankrupt nation since 1938. If individual states secede from the union, they will not accept the debt that the USA has accumulated. They will begin debt free. An easy way to eliminate the overwhelming debt that hangs over us.
    The USSR did the same not many years ago, now they are a few individual nations.
    Why is it so difficult to see the different possibilities that can take place in the carnal world of governments and nations.

  254. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    I just watched the first few minutes of a video about the pending economic disaster that could hit this summer.
    It made me think, perhaps we should all be talking about how to prepare for extreme hard times rather than whether to take up arms for a civil war or not. There could very possibly be much more serious concerns coming our way, such as how to find food, etc. It happened in the 1930′s. It could happen again. What should a Christian do? Should we prepare? Should we stock up on food and water even more than we did concerning the Mayan end of the world last month. Could this concern be more real than the planets lining up?

  255. Jo Sappenfield Jan 23rd 2013

    So many long contributions, I couldn’t read them all and so I can’t expect that everyone will read mine. But to “an Outsider Looking In”–Thank you for looking in. I did read others besides that one–many other perspectives that pointed my inner compass true north . I am reminded of the portion of scriptures in Judges where the horrific sending out of body parts of the concubine from Bethlehem Judah which was due to a number of corrupt factors at that period of time– not just one. But when the reality of the gravity of the situation was made known the best way it could be with what they had to work with. An admonition went out by the officiating priest at Shiloh–in verse 7 of chapter 20 of Judges we read: “Look all of you children of Israel–give your advice and counsel here and do it now. So all the people arose as one man, saying, “None of us will go to his tent, nor will any turn back to his house; but NOW: THIS is the thing we will do to Gibeah:” And so the strategy continues until wickedness (thru gruesome loss) is purged from their midst. Such action is demanded of us at this juncture, if we have any sense of how the heart of God is being grieved and how we as the supposed “OVERCOMING” church is falling short–if it were not so, such things could NOT BE OCCURRING within our “borders”….not if a righteous man is a guide to his neighbor–not if there is one righteous man speaking the truth in the counsel of the “King”–for it is written that if a ruler listens to lies–ALL his servants are wicked. SERIOUS INJUNCTION! And some of us are indignant at the idea that WE could be implicated in this. But the truth is friend: Are we utterly lawless? Are we not at least indirectly in the such a service by our support of the concenpt of “LAW AND ORDER”? My heart leaped for joy when I heard come out of our presidents lips a quote from the book of Corinthians with regard to “seeing the eternal–invisible reality” rather than the temporal which perishes.” Granted, he probably didn’t write it himself BUT–someone in touch with GOD’s compassionate heart over the issue of the Connecticut murders was close enough both in the circle of the President to influence the very words he spoke–which PRIMARILY needed to reach the hearts of those parents whose children were killed. LISTEN UP! The heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord to turn it withersoever HE WILL!
    We have to come into a place of unity and rise up collectively with leadership at the helm and INSIST on doing whatever it takes to RE-ESTABLISH the “bars of our gates” so that GOD will dwell in our midst as his peculiar people. Then the whole earth will fear and turn to the Living God and the earth will yield its increase as it says in Psalms 67–and God OUR God shall bless US and all the ends of the earth shall fear Him!” What this translates into is COMMITTMENT. Committment to begin to speak the TRUTH in love. The first thing that Isaiah noticed about himself when he was about to be “SENT” as God’s representive, was an encountered the holiness of GOD and He honestly assessed: “WOE is me for I am a man of unclean lips.” The first thing we need is for the Seraph to touch our lips with a coal from off God’s altar and cleanse us from “unclean speech.” When that happens, maybe, just maybe he will grant us repentance to the acknowledging of the TRUTH–which will be evidenced by our refusal to compromise the words we speak to accommodate our luke warm comfort in the midst of a perverse generation. GOD HAVE MERCY ON US and PURGE OUR LIPS and SEND US! SURELY THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO WILL GO! Will anyone stand in agreement with me on this?

  256. Sheeja John Jan 23rd 2013

    Richard Kirby wrote: The Old Testament gives us much knowledge of God and is a great source of inspiration; but it cannot be a guide for Christians…..

    Many believe that the Old Testament has become obsolete and has no bearing on one’s life living under the New Covenant. To them I like to quote Yeshua’s words: “Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.” – Matthew 13:52
    What has become obsolete in the Old Testament is not the commandments of God for life and godliness, but the ‘Law of commandments contained in the ordinances.’ (Ref. Ephesians 2:15)

    In Psalms 19:7-9 we read,
    ‘The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
    The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
    The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.’

    Romans 15:4 reads, ‘For whatsoever things were written before WERE WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.’
    Therefore all Scripture is profitable; both the New and the Old Testament.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be complete, THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED for every good work.’ – 2 Tim. 3:16

  257. Not taking sides in this debate, but I have a question here for both sides.
    If those who occupy the feral government do in fact start sending in United Nations troops to go house to house raping and killing and Christians refuse to defend their neighborhood while all the rest of the people are fighting for their lives, do you think neighbors will still listen to this great Christian testimony that is so freely offered by a Savior who loves them and came to offer eternal life? If you see your neighbor staggering to the slaughter at the hands of someone you could have defended them from and you don’t do it, are your actions pleasing to the Lord or do you just say to yourself, “well, it’s time for Gods judgement on America so here we go?”

  258. DonaldN Jan 23rd 2013

    Could we all just be getting distracted by issues that will not really be an issue?
    One war tactic is to make an assault in one area to attract the defenses of the enemy, and then attack hard from another side.
    The devil uses these tactics quite effectively.
    We all need to seek God to find out what the real issue is and prepare according to His wisdom.
    Could be that none of this will ever happen at all, but suddenly the real attack comes while we are looking at the wrong issues.

  259. DonaldN, you are so right about that. The devil does turn peoples attentions away from the real issues. However, maybe a nation of spoiled so-called Christians have been distracted by football, bread and circuses for so long that they haven’t bothered to consider such issues as the one we are discussing and this is Gods way of forcing a nation to consider things that they turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to before. And maybe this is just Gods way of telling them to get off their couch and start witnessing while there is still time.

  260. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    “Not taking sides in this debate, but I have a question here for both sides.
    If those who occupy the feral government do in fact start sending in United Nations troops to go house to house raping and killing and Christians refuse to defend their neighborhood while all the rest of the people are fighting for their lives, do you think neighbors will still listen to this great Christian testimony that is so freely offered by a Savior who loves them and came to offer eternal life? If you see your neighbor staggering to the slaughter at the hands of someone you could have defended them from and you don’t do it, are your actions pleasing to the Lord or do you just say to yourself, “well, it’s time for Gods judgement on America so here we go?”
    Don’t worry Jay , obedience is better than sacrifice at all cost we should not killed, that must be settle .to go beyond any protection that will have us kill others will mean disobedience to Christ teachings. We should not disobey Christ teaching in trying to bring others into his light. We are saying this is what a follower of Christ should do, but He will need Christ strength to be faithful to Christ teachings. That takes daily relationship with Christ.

  261. It is rather pointless to get caught up in every wind silly seasons of the political chirping class. If a pointless tennis match is a civil war, then I guess we are at “war”.

    I don’t care anymore what the dullards in D.C. do or say. I’m very nearly powerless to affect the outcome, so I’ll just settle for lower blood pressure, a chance to spend the time spent “following” politics seeking the Lord instead. If a civil war comes up I will be in the will of God whether that includes toting a gun or not.

    Only God can make the crooked ways straight, and he will. That will include our “christian” politics. If you start with the premise that the church is wrong on just about every issue and seek the Lord for his mind you will do well.

  262. OK fabakary,
    So are you telling me that police officers and military personnel cannot carry out their duties and still call themselves Christians? Police and military are called upon to kill as a matter of occupation. Are you saying that God does not approve of police and military?

  263. Tiffany Jan 23rd 2013

    @Cara Dear sister thank you so much for those words of wisdom that you shared. what you shared here is 100% accurate, of absolute truth! God bless you Cara! I wish all would read your post. I don’t understand why every “professing” christian cannot see this truth, (that which you’ve shared) however I suppose that God gives wisdom and spiritual understanding to those who seek it. Thank you again for your post dear sister, Love in Christ!

  264. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    “OK fabakary,
    So are you telling me that police officers and military personnel cannot carry out their duties and still call themselves Christians? Police and military are called upon to kill as a matter of occupation. Are you saying that God does not approve of police and military?”
    I think that is another issue Jay, we know the scriptures recognize earthly government , but this Government exist to be a terror to evil men. That authority is God ordain because of the mixtures of the people in the world. So as long as any earthly government is doing its God ordain authority which is to be a terror to evil men , they have not commit sin as long as the men are working evil and harm . That ordain authority is only given to earthly government not the people they are governing. It is not written that the people of the nations should be a terror to evil men but the RULERS SHOULD BE A TERROR TO EVIL MEN . So any professing Christian who take the position ordain for rulers , to do evil to those that do evil to them ,is going against Gods ordain authority. The Authority to do evil to the evil workers is not given to those in the spiritual government of Christ. If you are part of Christ spiritual government we should no our line of limit. Let the things that be of Cesar be given to cesar

  265. fabakary, great response. So if the DHS and Homeland security decide that all veterans and most police officers are terrorists http://theintelhub.com/2013/01/23/is-fema-a-threat-to-the-american-public/ and thus a threat to the American public because police won’t follow illegal orders to kill Americans, and yet police officers and military who bear the sword to punish evil doers and who took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic refuse to follow orders from the Feds, who then is the legitimate government that we are supposed to obey and cooperate with? The founders said the state government holds most of the power. But the states are saying they will arrest feds who try to enforce gun laws. You can be sure that as battle lines are drawn, you will be called upon to comply with both sides, Fed and State. It will be much more complex than just deciding who you agree with. This is not just an opinion poll for women to take while they polish their fingernails and watch Rosy Odonell or The View. There will be extreme consequences up to hanging for not providing resources to both sides when the real conflict begins. Which government will you comply with?

  266. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    “fabakary, great response. So if the DHS and Homeland security decide that all veterans and most police officers are terrorists http://theintelhub.com/2013/01/23/is-fema-a-threat-to-the-american-public/ and thus a threat to the American public because police won’t follow illegal orders to kill Americans, and yet police officers and military who bear the sword to punish evil doers and who took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic refuse to follow orders from the Feds, who then is the legitimate government that we are supposed to obey and cooperate with? The founders said the state government holds most of the power. But the states are saying they will arrest feds who try to enforce gun laws. You can be sure that as battle lines are drawn, you will be called upon to comply with both sides, Fed and State. It will be much more complex than just deciding who you agree with. This is not just an opinion poll for women to take while they polish their fingernails and watch Rosy Odonell or The View. There will be extreme consequences up to hanging for not providing resources to both sides when the real conflict begins. Which government will you comply with?”
    Sorry Jay I am not an American and am not even living in America to chose the government to comply with. I can only say as I told you the authority to kill those who want to kill me is not given to me as a follower of Christ. Whether Cesar fall or rise, obey or disobey His God ordain duty is not my responsibility as a follower of Christ to Kill. I think that is clear.

  267. AmericanChristian Jan 23rd 2013

    Amen Jay, if the government in authority is acting outside of their authority, and acting as tyrants, then there is no real authority to submit to.
    Even if they make “laws” so they can do what they want, if the “laws” they establish are against the original constitution that gave them their original authority, their is no more authority.
    What to do? How do we submit to authority when there is no authority.
    It comes down to submitting to POWER. Whoever has the power to enforce their will is the “authority”.
    A government “of the people, by the people and for the people” establishes the PEOPLE as the legal authority.
    Therefore, we have the right to stand against the tyrants.

  268. AmericanChristian Jan 23rd 2013

    For those of you who say, thou shalt not kill.
    If I, as a citizen, point a gun at a person (tyrant) and demand they cease their actions, and they submit to me so I don’t need to shoot them, then I have not killed anyone. Is this OK?

  269. That information helps tremendously. So do you mind if I ask what country you are from? Because very soon you will have to make a similar decision in all likelihood if you are not in the process of doing so this very moment.

    Just one more question. Are you saying that if someone breaks into your house and begins raping and killing your family members that you will not use deadly force to defend yourself and your family? If you are in a country where you fear for your safety as a result of responding to this question, I understand. If someone has a gun pointed at your head this very moment, I understand that as well and I appreciate your input. You have been most helpful in helping my fellow Americans to understand where all this leads when no one is allowed to speak the truth because they are under duress from the criminal element. If you are being threatened by criminals, soldiers or police as you write to me, then I fully understand all of your responses and please know that you are in our prayers. If the tone changes or I get no response back at all, then I will know that someone has taken you away to a prison camp or death chamber.

  270. booter Jan 23rd 2013

    This is a ‘Sobering Prospect’ but the scenario is playing out within today’s Church. The Lines of Battle are drawn between ‘The True Believers-following The GOD of The Bible not the Counterfeit of the shack’ and those committed to GOD’s Church not the AntiChrists of The New World Order.

    Everyone Please Pray for JESUS to return sooner-than-later.

    GOD Bless!

  271. AmericanChristian Jan 23rd 2013

    Once again, I see here a form of national Christianity. We in America are accused of mixing our faith with our patriotism.
    BUT, you in other nations, who are already dominated and forced into pacifism, you mix your faith with the element of your political condition.
    We are only doing what we can to keep our nation from becoming like yours.

  272. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    “That information helps tremendously. So do you mind if I ask what country you are from? Because very soon you will have to make a similar decision in all likelihood if you are not in the process of doing so this very moment.

    Just one more question. Are you saying that if someone breaks into your house and begins raping and killing your family members that you will not use deadly force to defend yourself and your family? If you are in a country where you fear for your safety as a result of responding to this question, I understand. If someone has a gun pointed at your head this very moment, I understand that as well and I appreciate your input. You have been most helpful in helping my fellow Americans to understand where all this leads when no one is allowed to speak the truth because they are under duress from the criminal element. If you are being threatened by criminals, soldiers or police as you write to me, then I fully understand all of your responses and please know that you are in our prayers. If the tone changes or I get no response back at all, then I will know that someone has taken you away to a prison camp or death chamber.”
    Jay it is okay. I am not ashame or afraid to tell you my country. I am born and raise up in a small country in Africa call Gambia. It is about 95 percent Muslims but I love our people regardless of their religion , in fact most of my family members are Muslims.
    About physical defense to kill it is not my teaching but christ teaching that his followers should not kill. Whether I obey or disobey his teaching cannot change the truth of it. But I have many times witness his power that enables me to do things that i cant do naturally. In christ is my victory without him i am nothing. Hope that is clear.

  273. fabakary. Thanks for your response. Africa and Islam have a long history of killing Christians, much like the Roman Catholics did. You know there was a time when the Pope kept the scriptures chained to an altar in private so that the common man couldn’t read it for himself. Now people have Bibles and don’t bother to read them. How much of the Bible have you been allowed to read? Are you allowed to see and read all of the Bible? Have you read the part about the Anti-Christ making war with the saints and overcoming them? Have you read the part in Ecclesiates about there being a time to kill? Have you read the part where Jesus told his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy a sword? Somehow I get the idea here that you have been given the part of the Gospel that someone has allowed you to have in order to keep you under their thumb. You might want to read it all for yourself rather than allowing someone else to withhold the portions that might threaten their reign of terror over you and your family. But then again if you are afraid and under duress, I don’t blame you one bit for being careful what you say.

  274. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    Jay I have a full bible with me.
    Jay wrote:”Have you read the part where Jesus told his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy a sword?” yes I read that part , but did you continue to read the whole story to see if what the lord really meant was for self defense or not ? If you read that incidence , it happens at the Garden of Gethsemane you will see it was in that very incidence he told them “all that take the sword will perish by the swords”.
    God be with you.

  275. fabakary, I was also wondering what you thought about the scriptures in Hebrews 11 that extol the greatness of past saints who went to war and actually put entire armies to flight. The Bible says that the world was not worthy of these people. Are you allowed to read Hebrews? Verse 33 says that through faith they subdued kingdoms. They became valiant in battle. Again, this is the chapter on faith, a quality that modern New Testament Christians are supposed to have. There is not one scripture in that chapter that extols the virtues of how they submitted to kingdoms. It says that they subdued them.

  276. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    “fabakary, I was also wondering what you thought about the scriptures in Hebrews 11 that extol the greatness of past saints who went to war and actually put entire armies to flight. The Bible says that the world was not worthy of these people. Are you allowed to read Hebrews? Verse 33 says that through faith they subdued kingdoms. They became valiant in battle. Again, this is the chapter on faith, a quality that modern New Testament Christians are supposed to have. There is not one scripture in that chapter that extols the virtues of how they submitted to kingdoms. It says that they subdued them.”
    Yes in the old covenant, they subdue physical kingdom because Isreal was the only covenant people but Christ have now die for the whole world, so all men are called to be part of the covenant. So while in the old was physical kingdom in the new covenant they are spiritual kingdom of darkness. Think that is clear.

  277. Jesus taught:

    Mat 5:20-22 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Mat 5:38-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Paul understood:

    Eph 6:10-18 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

  278. Ok folks. Sounds like a plan. We’re all just going to sit here and watch while soldiers and criminals come in and slaughter our families, rape the females and in some cases males, and all before our very eyes for the added torture benefit and we’re going to justify their pain and ours by saying that God said we couldn’t kill because we are Christians.

    So let the action begin. We’ve just given them permission to do it.

    By the way fabakary, have you got any actual experience at watching your family members be raped and dismembered in front of your very eyes or will this be a first time experience for you?

  279. Peter wrote his first letter to encourage Christians during the time of Nero – the persecution had started, killing, crucifying etc., of Christians, but hadn’t yet reached beyond Rome.

    Peter didn’t encourage anyone to attack or defend – he explained the gospel of Lord Jesus, concerning salvation through (and only through) Christ Jesus, he also explained there would be suffering, and that followers of Lord Jesus should submit to the authorities.

    Nero had Christians covered in pitch, and tied to stakes, then set on fire – to give ‘light’ to those he had invited to a feast..

    James, as in the writer of James in the N.T., was taken to the top of the Temple and told that he should deny/blaspheme Lord Jesus, or he would be thrown to the ground. He wouldn’t deny Christ Jesus as his Lord, so he was thrown over. Although bones were broken, he didn’t die, so was stoned, while still alive he asked God to forgive those who persecuted him.

    Since then many other born-again followers of Lord Jesus Christ had suffered and submitted to persecution, for His names sake.

    I’ll say again – protecting your mortal life, at the death of someone else – may well prevent that other one from hearing the gospel of Christ Jesus, from being saved.. personally, I wouldn’t want that other persons blood on my hands.

    My hope is in Lord Jesus, Almighty God – I am a member of His family, I trust Him to protect me, care for me – in the very best way that He knows how, and that fits in with His plans and purposes.

    Jay – where is you hope..? In whom is your hope..?

  280. fabakary Jan 23rd 2013

    “By the way fabakary, have you got any actual experience at watching your family members be raped and dismembered in front of your very eyes or will this be a first time experience for you?”
    I have told you before it is not about me, it is about Christ. In some hard life experiences i failed Christ because I rely on self ability, in other I overcame through Christ yet whether I failed or overcome through Christ that never changes the truth of his teachings. My experiences are not the hard stick to measure the truth of Christ teachings. It is not necessary for me to explain this or that experience that i went through as a yard stick to weigh the truth of christ teachings. Please if you repeats question I may not reply back to you .

  281. antipas4yahshua Jan 23rd 2013

    In review of the sword in the garden. Read it agin Luke 22
    When the other disciples saw what was about to happen, they exclaimed, Lord, should we fight? We brought the swords! And one of them struck at the high priests slave, slashing off his right ear.

    The problem wasn’t the sword.
    The problem was he ‘jumped the gun” and didn’t wait for a reply from the Lord.

    Christ was armed with legions of angels that I am quite sure they were present and ready to take action. This is seen in Matt 26:53
    “Or do you think that I’m not able to ask my Father and he will send to me more than twelve battle groups of angels right away?”
    Notice the protocol – “ask my Father”.

    Righteous behavior is to defend the widows, orphans (ie defenseless) – this could mean assistance or standing with them to denounce or in some seen in the OT – cut off Jezebels head. The key is to listen to Jesus.

    The end time witness will strike the earth and whoever harms them will be harmed in the same way.
    This cannot be denied.
    They will be eventually be overcomed and then – they are not to resist (Dan & Rev)
    This cannot be denied.

    Jesus sits as ruler of the flood, protects, and discloses all to His friends. Nothing will touch one of His – nothing without His permission.
    Become a friend to Jesus and knowing Him and more importantly He knows you- this was Pauls goal (Phil 3:10)’

    Shalom

  282. It appears that militant christians have joined the ranks if militant muslims over the use of guns and in their defence. The youth of today are joining gangs for self protection and are using guns as well. When will all of this stop?
    If the Body of Christ and innocent children are being told by christians who believe that everyone who is alive will go throught the Great Tribulation, don’t they realise in what they are saying is that the Body of Christ and children will annihilated. The Great Tribulation means what it says- it will ba a bloody massacre – HELL ON EARTH is the descriptive word.
    Believers do have trials and tribulations but the Great Tribulation will be entirely different. I don’t believe Almighty God will allow His people, the Body of Christ, to experience HELL ON EARTH, for the sake of mass murder due to the wickedness of evil people who will worship, adore, and accept the Anti Christ as God and who will con people into the thinking that he is. He will be the incarnate of Satan and perform signs and wonders in order the deceive and thus people following him.
    And yet, I am being told by christians using this web site, that due to believing in what has been called the Rapture, I am a escapist and I should be expected to go through the bloodiest holocaust of all time. This does not make any sense and because I believe in the Pre Trib and Mid Trib ( which happens first) I am in error. But then, in looking at the supporters of the gun lobby, there should be more guns available for everyone believing in law and order, to include christians and their older children having each a gun. Does not make any sense.
    Civil war in the USA – yes! Civil war in the christian church – yes! But christians arming themselves for what comes afterwards, the question is how can they go against the Anti Christ. To shoot him on sight and his followerss? You must be joking!
    May I suggest brethren have a look what Jacob Prasch has to say about the End Times. See this link
    http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/announcements/now-available-shadows-of-the-beast#more-7504
    Now that makes sense in line with the Word of God.
    Maranatha!

  283. Brother Keith Jan 23rd 2013

    This is a word of encouragement for John, Brother Andrew, and others…

    “Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works; not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Hebrews 10:23-25

    I have often been on the receiving end of an encouraging word from another brother or sister in Christ. Sometimes that word came at a crucial moment, when I really needed it. People sometimes forget that their pastor is human. They see a pastor as some kind of spiritual machine that just keeps going and going, turning out uplifting sermons and lively meetings, week after week. If that pastor happens to be a bit ‘dry’ one Sunday, they criticise rather than encourage.

    It is so important to encourage each other. Be sensitive to the voice of God’s Holy Spirit. If you feel Him prompting you to lift up another Christian, be faithful and obedient because His timing is always perfect. The person He has laid upon your heart may really need a comforting or encouraging word right now.

    The writer of the Hebrews gives us some great pointers for this coming new year.

    1. Hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering.
    2. Consider one another.
    3. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.
    4. Exhorting one another. (blessing, encouraging and lifting up)

    Then he adds these words…..“so much the more, as ye see the day approaching” I ask you in all seriousness, do you see THE DAY approaching?

    We are not promised an easy ride, and I’m not expecting one in 2013. In fact, I’m expecting things to get worse. The nearer we get to our Lord’s return, things are going to get tougher for the REAL CHRISTIAN.

    SO – we need to HOLD FAST. We need to “Contend earnestly for the faith once delivered” Jude 3. We need to consider one another and encourage one another, and we can’t do that if we are not meeting together! Time is running out. The day of our Lord’s coming is approaching fast. Let us all encourage each other SO MUCH THE MORE as we see that day approaching!

    I challenge you, bless somebody! Encourage somebody! It’s so easy to tear down, but harder to build up!

    “With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” Eph. 4:2-3

    “Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering: forbearing one another, and forgiving one another…..” Col. 3:12-13

    Notice the word ‘forbearing’ in both these texts? It means ‘putting up with one another’! We all need to do that.

    Brotherly love….Pastor Keith

  284. fabakary said, “Peter didn’t encourage anyone to attack or defend – he explained the gospel of Lord Jesus, concerning salvation through (and only through) Christ Jesus, he also explained there would be suffering, and that followers of Lord Jesus should submit to the authorities.”

    And if the authorities tell us to slaughter our fellow Christians, are we going to do that too fabakary? Will you obey the government, but not God? Peter said “we choose to obey God rather than men.” What do you say to those who tell you that an armed citizenry is the only thing restraining evil forces from murdering your brothers and sisters in America and then the rest of the world? If America disarms because of your words and your interpretation of scripture here are you willing to give an account before God for their slaughter and for the influence you had on them to disarm them before the slaughter? You have already told me that you don’t know which government to obey when the state comes in conflict with the Feds. God says to obey the government and in America we are a government of the people, by the people and for the people. That’s the form of government we have. So if some imposters and criminals hijack our government, is it not your responsibility to stand on the side of your government and get rid of those who have hijacked it? That is in fact upholding government. Those who despise government have hijacked it and it would appear that you are standing with the hijackers and consenting to the thief and adulterers. Is that pleasing to the Lord?

  285. Jay – it was I that made that comment, not fabakery.

    I also said:

    My hope is in Lord Jesus, Almighty God – I am a member of His family, I trust Him to protect me, care for me – in the very best way that He knows how, and that fits in with His plans and purposes.

    Jay – where is your hope..? In whom is your hope..?

  286. Michael Jan 24th 2013

    There are wars and rumors of war! Which is this? Can we predict the end of the world also? If we die we go to be with Jesus and if we live we live for Christ!

  287. David Marsh Jan 24th 2013

    Dear all,
    It is extremely important to hear and to consider the many views being offered here on this site. Occasionally, I have changed my views and opinions because of them and for that, I thank you Andrew for providing this most valuable resource.

    My brothers and sisters in the U.S. face grave danger it seems. Should we reach for the Sword of the gun or for the Sword of the Spirit. Yes, God led the Old Testament Hebrews to take the Land with sword and bloodshed but Jesus never preached this message in the New testament.

    It seems that God is sifting us still – even to the end.

    In the scheme of things, it does appear that God is going to allow some real horror to have its way that will trigger the final events of Revelation. The period of time that we are being prepared for. The greatest harvest of souls the world has ever seen. The Bride of Christ empowered by the former and latter rains.

    I have been a keen end time student for 20 years and all of this talk does seem to line up with the type of world events that will trigger the Revelation events.

    The best summation of Revelation, in my opinion, is given by Larry W. Wilson. See;
    http://www.wake-up.org/warnbook/WarnBook.htm

    I do believe the scripture always gives us the best way forward.
    God bless you all

    David Marsh.

  288. Roger said, ”

    Jay – it was I that made that comment, not fabakery.

    I also said:

    My hope is in Lord Jesus, Almighty God – I am a member of His family, I trust Him to protect me, care for me – in the very best way that He knows how, and that fits in with His plans and purposes.

    Jay – where is your hope..? In whom is your hope..?”

    Roger, my only hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other hope available. But Roger, the stakes are high and the consequences are severe for using feel good arguments to justify letting your brothers and sisters die at the hands of evil men. People on this board have assumed that the motivation for taking up arms against the wicked is self preservation and avoidance of pain. That might be the only motivation for unbelievers, but there is far more at stake here than just survival in this miserable old world that I have had too much of anyway. What is at stake is caring enough to find out what Jesus really expects us to do from His Word, rather than just taking the easy way out. If it is His time for us to die, then so be it. But if we are taking a pacifist position just because we are too lazy to study and find out what God really expects of us, or so full of false doctrine that we are willing to let the innocent be persecuted as a result with no conscience about it whatsoever, then I’m going to have to say that we have some imposters on here posing as Christians who really know nothing at all about loving the brethren. I can’t sit idly by while the voice of the martyrs cry out and be unmoved at their plight like many on this forum have done in the name of religious piety and false self-sacrifice. If you can sit by while fellow believers are being murdered, tortured and slaughtered and feel no internal pain, then don’t tell me you are a Christian, because you are not. You don’t know God and you haven’t been converted. Even animals can do better than that.

  289. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    So who would Jesus shoot, Jay?

  290. Andrew, I don’t suppose we will know that until the end of the book of Revelation comes about and He returns on a White horse to rule with a rod of iron. So far He has killed just about everybody who has ever lived. He said that the wages of sin is death. Beyond natural death which few in history have escaped, He has slaughtered millions in hurricanes, earthquakes, wars, volcano’s and various other means over the years. But He is God and that is His prerogative. What other weapons He has, I’m not sure, but I feel certain they will kill quite efficiently and eternally when He is ready to do so.

    What I am more concerned with though is the attitudes of those who are careless and lazy in their interpretation of His Word, for they will receive the greater judgment as false teachers. I don’t think they should be so quick to throw away the opportunity they currently have to speak publicly considering the terrible price that the founding fathers of our nation paid so that they could speak and carry the Gospel, even if current blogger, posters are being lazy about it. Freedom to carry the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a serious matter and the loss thereof is an unparalleled tragedy. The carefree and presumptuous attitude that is being displayed on this board among so-called Christians is certain to bring Gods hand of judgment.

  291. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    If you were in Jerusalem in 35 AD and you saw Saul persecuting and killing the Christians, would you shoot him?

    That is what you are advocating, isn’t it?

    That we don’t stand for persecution, but rather we take out our guns and start shooting people? Is that what we do?

    -Andrew

  292. Let me answer your question with a question Andrew. If you see a criminal abusing a child with intent to kill, are you going to call the police so that they can stop him from doing so or are you just going to rationalize that it’s Gods will and let it continue?

  293. Strong words in your above post Jay, have you ever read Hebrews 11:30-35?

    30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

    32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

    Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.’

    ‘Of whom the world was not worthy’, the saints of God in the first century had a different understanding of persecution and martyrdom than you do Jay, you would do well to imitate their faith.

  294. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    Jay – I would stop him. And call the police.

    But that is completely different.

    We are talking about CHRISTIANS being PERSECUTED and taken away.

    Did the early Christians try and kill their persecutors?

    Who would Jesus shoot?

  295. TyronePalmer, if you will go back just a few posts there I think you will see that I was the one who introduced those verses to fabakary.

    Andrew, such fuzzy thinking. Why would you call the police to protect a child and yet you would not protect a whole nation of children, families, Christians and adults included. Is one child of more importance in a fuzzy minded world than millions of people, children included, or are you simply failing to understand the great slaughter that might well be about to occur in this country. Are you not aware of all the foreign troops currently in our country and on our borders, the mini-suitcase nukes that are pre-planted by America’s enemies and the list goes on?

    I would never argue with you that America deserves Gods judgment. America has tolerated homosexuality, abortion and a host of other evils. But the Bible says that “for the sake of the righteous, the state of a nation shall be preserved.” And yes, if you really are a Christian, you are your brothers keeper. God will deal with the rest of them.

  296. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    So if I see my Christian brother being taken away by the Government, then I should shoot the Government guy?

    Is that it?

    -Andrew

  297. Andrew, you still don’t understand the equation and the devil is blocking your mind. Who is the government? If the police come for your Christian brother because he has committed a crime, then let them take him. You might want to go visit him in jail though in order to be true to what you say you believe. Right now, the Dept. of Homeland security, FEMA and the TSA have declared the police and veterans to be terrorists and the states are saying that they will arrest and jail any fed that attempts to enforce gun laws. Again let me reiterate, I am pro-government, but which government do you consider to be legitimate? State, local, Federal? Things aren’t as simple as they used to be since the dictator took over and the devils servants run things in the nations capitol. And they are about to get much more complex even yet. Not to mention that you keep changing the subject from the wholesale slaughter of innocents, to simple arrest for an alleged crime.

    So again, let me answer your question with a question. When the states begin to arrest federal agents for enforcing federal gun laws and the Feds begin bringing in United Nations troops because American troops won’t fire on our own citizens, and when veterans begin taking on the few regulars who will fire on American citizens, which government are you going to side with, State or Fed. If you are an able bodied male, one or the other is going to enlist you to fight. You can count on it. I know you have been sheltered in some safe haven dream world and you never even considered such a scenario, but that is the way it works.

  298. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    Jay, I am sorry, but coming from a Christian I find your statements absolutely incredible.

    I ask again-

    Who would Jesus shoot?

  299. Not interested in answering foolish and unlearned questions.

  300. Jesus does not shoot people, he just give them a heart attack or something. (i.e. Annanais and Sapphira) I wonder who Jesus had in mind might need killing when he commanded the disciples to buy swords.

    The scripture does not put any prohibitions against guns, so I don’t think we should either. There are many situations or occupations people could be in where they need a tool as a gun and they need to use it to kill.

    If you grew up around them they are just part of life. If you try and impose foreign pacifist/Jehovah Witness culture on Americans you may set off civil war for nothing more than a carnal doctrine or opinion. Guess which side of that conflict is more heavily armed and has no qualms about using them?

  301. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    Jay – you replied to me:
    Roger, my only hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other hope available. But Roger, the stakes are high and the consequences are severe for using feel good arguments to justify letting your brothers and sisters die at the hands of evil men.

    I agree with you – my hope is Christ Jesus our risen Lord, and Him alone – I don’t need to then add a ‘but….’

    Yes the stakes are high, peoples eternal salvation through Christ Jesus, and in Christ Jesus. Our mortal bodies, flesh, blood and bone, will die somehow, somewhere and at some time. Scripture explains very clearly that shortly before Lord Jesus return, there will be great tribulation, many Christians will be persecuted, and many (seemingly ) will be martyred.

    Yet my hope remains in Him, it is He who knows the end from the beginning, and He told us that in this world we are to expect tribulation, so, should we listen to Lord Jesus, or go our own way..?

    Jay, you are free to choose your own path – if you can justify shooting/killing people so that your mortal life will be ‘saved’ for a few years more, that is your choice. I would rather share the gospel of Lord Jesus with those people, that you give the impression are only intent on harming others. That suggests to me that those ones desperately need Lord Jesus for their salvation, not killing before they have a chance to hear His truth.

    If I am to die in that situation – praise God.

    If He chooses to intervene and reveal Himself to those ‘attackers’, either directly, or by words He gives to me – praise God.

    Either way, God will receive the glory from me.

    Jay – are you willing to lay down your life for Lord Jesus – are you prepared to die while declaring that Jesus is Lord and God…

    Is your trust fully in the ability, plans and purposes of Almighty God for you…?

    Or, do you believe you must look after yourself, that God hasn’t quite read the situation right, where you, your family, and other brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus are concerned…?

    This ‘looking after oneself’ speaks of putting this world right before Lord Jesus return, and that has more than a hint of Dominionist theology about it.

    Christ Jesus came for sinners..

    In His love,
    Roger

  302. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Andrew, let me ask you this, was the continental army of the original colonies wrong to “shoot the government guys” when they rebelled against England and claimed the USA as a free nation? It was an act of war. This would be no different. It would not be just “shooting some guy”. The way you choose to use your words make it sound as bad as you can, but it shows you are not addressing the real issue. The real issue is fighting for the freedom of the people, not at all unlike those who started this nation in the first place.

  303. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    The question-

    “Who would Jesus shoot?”

    is at the very center of this whole debate.

    Do you dare face up to it?

    -Andrew

  304. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Andrew, you are hiding behind that question so you don’t have to answer the questions asked of you.
    Jesus also manifested himself in the Old Testament, He did not stab anyone with a sword then, but He did demand it from His people.

  305. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    So my answer to your question is this.
    Jesus would not shoot anybody. He has others to do the battle. The captain of an army is not a front line soldier. He is behind the battle lines giving orders.

  306. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Now Andrew, can you face up the the questions asked of you, such as:
    was the continental army of the original colonies wrong to “shoot the government guys” when they rebelled against England and claimed the USA as a free nation?
    and: if I, as a citizen, point a gun at a person (tyrant) and demand they cease their actions, and they submit to me so I don’t need to shoot them, then I have not killed anyone. Is this OK?

  307. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    Stab people with swords?

    Return to the Old Testament mindset?

    Sorry, you are on your own, my friend.

    And no – I am not “hiding” behind that question. It is at the center of everthing-

    “Who would Jesus shoot?” – Who would he PERSONALLY shoot?

    I can see further discussion is fruitless.

    Blessings!

    Andrew Strom

  308. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    AmericanChristian

    It seems to me that Jesus explained a few things, when He was human, as detailed in Matthew 5, and whilst He refers to the ‘old time’, He spoke in the present, overode the ‘old time’, and gave teaching for the future, which is where we are now.

    Others spoke of ‘loving our brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus’, supporting them, defending them against evil men – yet Jesus said love your enemies, turn the other cheek.

    He spoke of fulfilling the law, so, does ‘loving your neighbour’ include killing them..?

    Does love your enemy include killing them..?

    Jesus said we are to love them, what do you say..?

  309. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    You obviously posted your last statement before I posted mine. I did answer your question. Will you answer mine?

  310. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Roger, I take it you believe war is to be fought only by the unsaved, that Christians should not join the military.

  311. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    None of this is a commentary on joining the military.

    Nothing to do with it.

    It is all about whether to shoot and kill people who are coming to persecute us as CHRISTIANS.

  312. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    I have no problem with Christians in the military – but that isn’t the answer you want from your ‘loaded question’ is it my friend…?

  313. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Andrew, you are totally wrong, this is about military action. That is what this whole discussion thread is about.
    What is the Christian response to civil war in the USA.
    That is YOUR original question, now you are pushing it aside because you don’t like the answers we are giving you.

  314. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    We are overlapping answers here.. :-)

    To clarify, I agree with Andrews last comment – we are not to shoot, kill, any who persecute Christians for their belief.

  315. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Roger, it is the exact answer I would want.
    Civil war in the USA is an act of WAR. Should a Christian fight for our freedom or not. I am not advocating cold blooded murder and killing people at random.
    Andrew, just what exactly do you mean when you accuse me of saying “shoot em all?”
    Do not make me out to be a terrorist by your untrue accusations.

  316. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    No, my friend.

    It is about whether Jesus wants us to take up arms against the government

    Or shoot Government people who are persecuting or arresting Christians.

    I say Shoot no-one. It is completely unChristlike.

    No more from me.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  317. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Roger, i agree, I believe we are overlapping answers to questions that do not apply.
    I do not advocate defending against Christian persecution.
    What I am asking is the original purpose of this discussion.
    Civil war is WAR. Civilians become soldiers. Battle lines are drawn, in this case not location, but rights.
    Can you also hold your questions and answers to Andrews original question so we can get it answered?
    By The Way, just because we are not in agreement, I still love you guys as brothers and I know you feel the same. Some issues may get heated, but the Love must remain.

  318. Hello Fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I am a black female pastor is it all right to call you my family?

    Our ministry works with the criminals in our society some have killed, stolen, raped, and caused mothers to become addicted to drugs. Would you be willing to support our efforts to reach the lost? We are Wholly Committed to living as Chirst. Do you think we are misguided? Let’s talk about spreading the good news of the Gospel for a while.

    We will not all agree on every point, but do we have to become rude and insulting with each other? Where is the love? “The greatest of these is love.”

    Let us prepare, let us practice how to live as Christ together in love. Christans are followers of Christ is that correct? White or Black, rich or poor, ignorant or intelligent, mentally ill or mentally sound can we stop for one moment and pray together? If you agree it is time to stop and pray together and to practice living in love with each other.

    Could your next post be suggesting times, places and dates to meet for prayer or is that not a thing to do in this century?

    Let’s seek God on how to live as light in the world in the trying months and year ahead of us. God did not give us the spirit of fear, but power,love and self control / sound mind.

    Will you join me in prayer tomorrow at 6:30pm, January 24th. You don’t have to come where I am you can gather your family, friends, or even by yourself and pray tomorrow specifically for the Body of Christ being committed to living as God designed.

    Love, prayer, and sharing the Good News that is living in obedience and in faith.

    Surrender!

  319. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    AmericanChristian – I said I had no problem with Christians in the military – I didn’t say that I agreed with them killing. There are other ‘roles’ they could fill…

  320. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Roger, a supportive role in the military supports the killing of the enemy. There are not enough medical positions for all the Christians to go there. Just because you do not push the button or pull the trigger doesn’t mean you are not responsible for the deaths involved.

  321. The original question – Civil war and Christians. Was there a time for Civil War my ancestors would say so. Is it the same today? I believe not today, there is no butality of slavery sanctioned by the government today. Even then it was not civilians but two armies formed to fight.

    We still have to digest what Jesus said, “My Kingdom is not of this world.” I live and work to have a God like influence in this world, but I will not let the world influence how much I seek after righeousness and holiness, or how i respond to prejudice, racism, evil and the growing level of hate.

    May the Lord bless and keep you, may his face shine upon you and give you peace.

  322. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    AmericanChristian, you say:
    Roger, a supportive role in the military supports the killing of the enemy. There are not enough medical positions for all the Christians to go there. Just because you do not push the button or pull the trigger doesn’t mean you are not responsible for the deaths involved.

    Is this how Lord Jesus sees it as well..? If so, then I guess, given His teachings, I won’t be in the military.. although how being a medic can be supportive of deaths, I just cannot understand

    My original answer to Andrews question was always that I wouldn’t take sides in a civil war, and that is based on my understanding of Jesus teachings, His spoken words recorded in scripture, as well as those writings by others in the N.T., so thankyou for this discussion.

    A thought; – if enough Christians stood back from any involvement in any civil war, rebellion etc., as far as killing goes – what effect would that have..?

    In His love,
    Roger

  323. I wish someone would comment on the Civil War that freed the slaves. Did that count for Christians involvement to stop slavery. You see we could speak about many aspects of history. Many of the freedoms we enjoy was due in large part to war. The last couple of post talked about Christians in the military. Would you just have the unbeliever fight in Afganistan? Sometimes living on the earth means taking some responsibility in government and military and just as a medic, but as a soldier.

    The real question is what does Christians have to do with the fight on the right to bear arms and it being our God given right? Are we talking about the god of this world or the God of the universe and beyond? Civil unrest? Spliting from the government? Who is really promoting these ideas. Some would say the KKK. Okay there I said it.

    After all the frenzy of words is done and death closes our eyes only for us to be standing before the Lord, what will His words be to us? Let it be well done my good and faithful servant, you served me well, you represented me well, you loved well, you always listened for my voice.

    With Love,
    Sheila
    “The greatest of these is love.” Even when you are not loved back.

  324. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    What a lovely heartfelt post, Sheila. And it sounds like you are doing wonderful work in Jesus.

    Bless you!

    Andrew

  325. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    “…After all the frenzy of words is done and death closes our eyes only for us to be standing before the Lord, what will His words be to us? Let it be well done my good and faithful servant, you served me well, you represented me well, you loved well, you always listened for my voice….”

    Thankyou Sheila, and Amen.

  326. Allison Jan 24th 2013

    Please see this video of a gestapo-like government raid on a Water Company in Arkansas: http://www.rampantinjustice.com/

    If this happened to you and it is happening to many across Amerika how would you react?

    This is not theory. This is reality. “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge”. Hosea 4:6a.

    It is time to seek the Lord with ALL of your heart. It is time to quit playing church as this battle is real and it is here!

  327. Andrew…………………..i SECOND the motion
    WHO WOULD JESUS shoot.
    NO one…………………EVEN when his desciples
    asked him to Call down FIRE
    HE told them they dont even KNOW what SPirit they were of……..
    FOR THE SON of man CAME TO SAVE LIVES………NOT DESTROY.
    WHEN he comes again THEN he will destroy
    BUT that is those MEN who denied HIM in the first place.
    JAY cant answer…………………
    Andrew…………..its clear many REASON as men.
    WHEN one wont answer a question…………..
    TIS because DEEP inside…………………THEY JUST DONT want
    to ADMIT. I PERSONALLY THANK pastor KEITH
    as well. and thank tiffany and roger…………..sheilah.
    ANd all who BODLY REFUSE to act any type of vengeance out
    against any who wish us harm or evil.
    NOT only are we NOT to resist evil done against us………..
    WE are COMMANDED BY JESUS HIMSELF
    TO PRAY for them. YES to pray their forgivness.
    STEPHEN KNEW THIS……………
    TIS why after rebuking them and trying to correct them.
    AND they REFUSED his words…………then stoned him
    HIS LAST words are VERY interesting
    SOUND identical to CHRISTS own WORDS as he hung on the cross……………..LORD , or in JESUS case………….FATHER forgive them ……………………………
    WHY IS IT THAT not a ONE, not a ONE apostel who was recoreded as being improsoned or killed
    EVER picked up a sword…………….
    SOME did run…………………some ran to other cities………..
    TO PREACH the gosple……………BUT NOT A ONE
    picked up the sword to denfed his life…………OR his
    christian brother or sister.
    SO WHY is this so common place in the minds of many.
    BECAUSE THEY are of ANOTHER SPIRIT.
    AND IT is NOT OF GOD.
    NO man or woman has any right to ACT out vengeacne
    to act out any violence against any. ONLY GOD has that RIGHT
    and FIRST he sent his SON to GIVE us the way out, of HIS RIGHTEOUS wrath. HOW dare ANY exalt themself
    to the stead of GOD and avenge in any matter.
    SUFFER THE WRONG………………..and PRAY they are forgiven.
    ONLY GOD IS RIGHTEOUS, AND ONLY GOD has the RIGHT
    to cast the first STONE or any act of vengeance.
    YET in his mercy GIVES us the way out…………
    JESUS not only said NOT TO AVENGE YOURSELVES
    HE SAID TO PRAY FOR THOSE who perscute you
    TO DO GOOD to those who despitefully use you…………
    AND not ONLY DID JESUS say this………….
    HE LIVED THIS. SLEEP on THAT. ANYONE who has been reconciled…………….TO GOD IN CHRIST………….
    was FIRST reconciled WHILE A SINNER< wHILE a ENEMEY.
    HOW DARE ANY do any LESS.
    OUR JOB AINT TO DEFEND OURSELVES………..
    ITS TO CARRY OUT THE WORD OF RECONCILIATION
    reconciling men to GOD , by the WORD of our faith
    BY THE WORD of the gosple.
    SATAN is a deciver………………….and all the while has the world FOCUSED on anyting BUT EVANGELISM and winning of souls.
    WE had better WAKE UP FAST. because i am warning all
    WE ARE NOT GOD, NOR are we above our master.
    WHILE IN THIS FLESH………………..we had better walk
    as did JESUS , the one above all, the one who created all things,
    WE had better walk as did HE , while he was here on earth in the flesh……………………..
    we had better NOT exalt ourselves in any way……….
    HE DID NOT DEFEND HIMSELF
    and we are NOT TOO EITHER.
    IT is GOOD if the servant is AS HIS MASTER.
    MANY are lost. and i say this NOT TO condemn
    BUT in my heart I LOVE YOU ALL. THUS I AM WARNING
    us all…………………..LOVE THE TRUTH …………..
    DIE to SELF………………….AND PICK up the CROSS and FOLLOW CHRIST. THIS is something a babe in the LORD
    SHOULD STRONGLY KNOW………..
    IF WE FALL from THIS……………..FROM BASIC LOVE
    then it wont matter if or what else we did………….IT WILL have profited us NOTHING in the end………………
    NOTHING……………………….
    and i am warning us , GO Back to ONLY BIBLE reading……..
    TIFFANY , CARA< andrew, roger…………..
    sheilah, pastor keith and whomever else ALREADY KNOWS THIS
    amen. SOrry if i missed names,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but there are some
    i may NOT have mentioned. BUT GOD KNOWS who you are.
    STAND STRONG IN TRUTH ONLLY. LIVE THE SERMON on the MOUNT…………………and be blessed.
    THIS is serious. THIS is an SALVATIONAL ISSUE.
    AND i must warn about it. PLEASE all who oppose this
    JUST go back and take the time to read again all that JESUS said.

  328. Sheeja John Jan 24th 2013

    Sheila Green wrote:
    ‘….Civil unrest? Spliting from the government? Who is really promoting these ideas.’

    Sheila Green, do you mean to say that you are willing to abide with the lawless, godless reign and that you approve of them?
    ————————————————————————————
    People, the so-called christians without fear of God, tear their brethren to bits and pieces mercilessly and O how they love to flatter/praise the wicked in plain sight!!!
    In Psalms 15 :4, we read that a vile person is to be despised but he who fears God (YAHWEH) must be honored.
    ………………………………………………………………………………………..
    Wondering whether this site is dedicated to promote the truths of God or is it there to promote the agenda of the enemy….!!!
    It is time I leave this blog.

  329. Are you allowed to have guns in Australia or is it against the law?

    Just wondering I do not know what the rule of law is other there.

  330. Brother Keith Jan 24th 2013

    It is a criminal offence for the public in the United Kingdom to own a gun but those in gangs do despite of being prosecuted and going to prison. This applies to many countries except some which includes America where the topic of Civil War, which could happen, is all about.
    Now the thread is would the Lord Jesus Christ shoot as with His disciples if they walked the earth today. No one can speculate on this as the Bible would have to be re written.
    But it appears that christians are divided on the subject as wiht who goes throught the Great Tribulation which is another hot topic and christians are divided about.
    My opinion is that the church and all of its religious systems will never on earth be united. Under and facing persecution – perhaps!
    But then there will be betrayal and abandonment which has become apparent today with many who call themselves christians are no longer following Christ and found to be following someone else leading people into deception. Religion is religion. And christianity should remain that way and not churchianity as its replacement.
    The white supremists who call themselves christians have their own militias in the USA. There are certain christian groups who have set up their own communites and armed to the teeth. The same thing happened in South Africa under apartheid rule.
    Fear seems to be taking hold in the modern church which has allowed false teaching and false prophecy to take a stranglehold and which will remain so until He comes.
    Please consider what I wish to share and please do not use scripture as a tennis match to gain points:-

    “But the Lord said unto him, (Ananias) Go thy way; for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel; for I will show him how great things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” Acts 9: 15-16

    God spoke to Ananias, just after the conversion of Saul of Tarsus on the Damascus road. He gave Ananias the task of going to Saul to lay his hands upon him that he might receive his sight back. God also revealed to Ananias that Saul, later re-named Paul, had to suffer many things in his calling to preach the gospel.

    Many today boast of a calling to preach, but are they prepared to suffer for the sake of the gospel? We may say “that was for Paul in his day” but God’s word shows us clearly that suffering is a part of serving Jesus Christ in the cause of the gospel, in any age.

    “If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us” 2 Tim. 2:12

    “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together” Romans 8:17

    “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life, for My sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it” Mark 8:35

    In these end times, and during this present end time apostasy, we hear much of positive confession, name it, claim it, demanding healing and deliverance from just about every situation that we find ourselves in and don’t like. Let me make it clear that I do believe in divine healing and deliverance. They are miracles of God’s grace. But I don’t believe they are ours by right, or that we should expect them every time.

    Where are the ‘Pauls’ today? Where are the people who are prepared to lose all for Christ and the gospel? Where are those who are willing to deny themselves in the service of God?

    “Whosoever will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” Mark 8:34

    Over the years of my pastorate, I have met many who declared total allegiance to the work of Christ. They declared themselves to be faithful and supportive of the work. But today? They are long gone. Some got offended at the truth I have preached, some grew tired and weary of service. Some wandered into false doctrines and proved themselves to be part of churchainity instead of Christianity.

    Some boast of growing Churches and Church plants, I can boast of a diminishing fellowship, at one point almost almost emptying it, because in these last days, people can’t endure sound doctrine. (2 Tim. 4:3) But one thing I do know, I have been as faithful as I’ve known how to be, in my calling to preach the truth whatever the cost.

    Are you prepared to count the cost? Are you prepared to suffer for what God has called you to do?

    For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he hath sufficient to finish it?” Luke 14:28

    Don’t listen to the false teachers who promise flowery beds of ease, are you willing to COUNT THE COST and give all in the service of Christ and the gospel?

    “Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, UNMOVABLE, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord” 1 Cor. 15:58

    So if you are in service for the Lord, be FAITHFUL! COUNT THE COST and be prepared to lose everything for Christ’s sake. He gave up all to save you, are you willing to give up all to serve Him?

    Brotherly love…..Pastor Keith

    Shalom!

  331. GaryB Most of our guns were collected and furnaced after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania. A plethora of conspiracy theories followed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia.

    Criminals here still have, and use, guns mainly handguns, shootings, drive buy shootings, are common, I guess the crim’s never presented theirs in the buyback! .
    Recent surveys say:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-12/gun-ownership-on-the-rise/3662504
    Pr Michael

  332. PS
    Australia still functions, and we have not had a massacre since the buyback! That is a good result.
    Do not be afraid fear is the opposite of faith remember Job declared “what i feared is come upon me”
    Faith and Love produce the work of God, fear has torment and its fruit is not good. They are opposites!
    Pr Michael

  333. Wangari Jan 24th 2013

    I have closely followed your posts and wholly support your views as regards to the separation of the true church and the state. For a long time time, America has been hallowed as the land founded on godly principles. While this is true, then was then and now is now. America has evolved and has greatly deviated from these Christian ideals and has become more humanistic. The spirit of the New Age seems to be currently prevailing not only in the USA but also in the rest of the world. For Christians to blame President Obama and the current leadership for the moral decline in America shows that they have forgotten who the real enemy is. The church cannot look at the state for spiritual direction. It should be the light of the state and the world at large. Instead of engaging in ugly exchanges they should be down on their knees and repenting asking God to hold back His righteous wrath on a church which has become compromised by the world. Obama is not the problem. The church is the problem. I also think that much of this vitriol towards obama is because he is the first black president and deep roots of racism still exist even in the so called Christians. May God open our eyes. Blessings

  334. Christian journalist Jan 24th 2013

    I agree that the christian church has been a problem and its membership can only blame themselves for what is going on in the world, and especially what ia happening in the United States of American. Christian leadership of the American church are divided on the teachings of the Lord Jesus, their interpretation of scripture, on what to do and not to do with false teachers and prophets and the direction in which they are taking the church. It has become noticeable who are the pied pipers and what tunes they are playing to deceive even the very elect. For very little has changed for many years as they use tv and radio to promote heresy making profit for themselves to keep their luxuiious lifestyles. Has anyone notice the security guards they employ who are armed to protect them and support the gun lobby to get recognition. If this is what christians argue about in strenghening the purpose and the argument of having guns and so forth, what they are sowing they will reap.
    With all that is going on and will happen in these End Times, christians should not be relying on secular means and methods for self preservation. Instead those who call themselves christians should be seeking Him, obey His instructions, and preaching the Gospel message of Salvation. That is by REPENTANCE and not bypassing by instigating an other way which is another gospel and deception.
    I give thanks that the Lord Jesus is coming soon and am awaiting His call to take me Home.
    May this song be a blessing to all commenting on brother Andrew’s web site…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMCOyY0Rlus

    With every blessing in Jesus!

  335. Christian journalist Jan 24th 2013

    I agree that the christian church has been a problem and its membership can only blame themselves for what is going on in the world, and especially what ia happening in the United States of American. Christian leadership of the American church are divided on the teachings of the Lord Jesus, their interpretation of scripture, on what to do and not to do with false teachers and prophets and the direction in which they are taking the church. It has become noticeable who are the pied pipers and what tunes they are playing to deceive even the very elect. For very little has changed for many years as they use tv and radio to promote heresy making profit for themselves to keep their luxuiious lifestyles. Has anyone notice the security guards they employ who are armed to protect them and support the gun lobby to get recognition. If this is what christians argue about in strenghening the purpose and the argument of having guns and so forth, what they are sowing they will reap.
    With all that is going on and will happen in these End Times, christians should not be relying on secular means and methods for self preservation. Instead those who call themselves christians should be seeking Him, obey His instructions, and preaching the Gospel message of Salvation. That is by REPENTANCE and not bypassing by instigating an other way which is another gospel and deception.
    I give thanks that the Lord Jesus is coming soon and am awaiting His call to take me Home.
    May this song be a blessing to all commenting on brother Andrew’s web site…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMCOyY0Rlus

    With every blessing in Jesus!

  336. Pastor Keith Jan 24th 2013

    May I add my comments to every minister and pastor who should be looking after the flock given to them and please stop chasing every wind and doctrine that has come into the church.
    To say that christians need guns for the Last Days sounds to me man’s way of dealing with things.
    Instead consider this…
    “Therefore my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain, in the Lord” 1 Corinthians 15:58

    I was quite taken back by the response over comments given that It would appear that many of you are on the same wavelength as myself and dislike Churches & Ministries being run the devil’s way with money as their driving force. That’s very encouraging, because I feel I proved from the Bible that this is very wrong.

    I want to stress another area where Churches and Ministries are failing to line up in agreement with God’s precious word, the Bible. It’s in the area of much sort after success. How do we measure success, or should we even be seeking and striving after it?

    We hear about ‘success and motivational seminars’ today, some even held and supported by Churches!

    The word ‘success’ is only mentioned once in the entire King James Bible! Does that surprise you? Now look at the context in which it is mentioned:

    Joshua 1:8 “This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein; for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success”

    This was part of God’s instructions to Joshua after the death of Moses and Israel was about to be led into the promised land. Success in the entry to the promised land was assured by God, IF the book of the law (God’s word, equivalent to our Bible) was meditated on twenty-four hours a day and observed and carried out! Even if we were able to claim that promise for ourselves, how do we measure up to the conditions?

    When we come to the New Testament and our Lord’s dealings with His Church, we don’t find any calls to success, but rather, commands to be faithful. God looks for our faithfulness, even in the little that we may have.

    “He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much….” Luke 16:10

    “And he said unto him, Well done good servant, because thou hast been faithful in very little, have thou authority over ten cities” Luke 19:17

    Have you noticed that when you meet another ‘Christian’ they invariably ask two questions, “What Church do you attend?” and “How many go to your Church?” and I say, “Does it matter?” Those to whom these questions are important, are those who are operating by the devil’s standards, and doing things in the same way as the world does them. This world measures success by ‘How big’ and ‘How many’. I call it ‘The numbers Game’. I stopped playing the Numbers Game some years ago now, when I began to understand that God looks for FAITHFULNESS not SUCCESS. I would rather be faithful with my little flock (about twelve people plus children) teaching them the truth of God’s word and watching them grow in His grace, than to have a Church building full of people keeping the seats warm! My little flock gets out there in the world, Monday ’till Saturday, telling people about Jesus, and that He is returning soon. They come on Sunday to feast upon God’s precious word, to be built up in the faith, and to tell how our Lord has led them in their witnessing to others. God has shown me through His word, that this is how He wants it to be.

    I find the letters to the seven Churches in Asia, found in Revelation chapters 2&3, very interesting. The last letter, to the Church at Laodicea, is the Church that this world would call very successful. Jesus said it was a rich Church. It had all the ‘mod cons’ (increased with goods) and had no need for anything more. (see: Rev. 3: 14-22) They must have been very proud of themselves! BUT – Jesus wasn’t there. He was on the outside!

    Then there is the Church at Philadelphia. This Church looked a total failure. Jesus said it had ‘little strength’ (see: Rev. 3: 7-13) We would say today that it was far too small to have any ‘clout’ or to make any impact. BUT Jesus commended this Church above the other six! Why? Because they (1) Had little strength (2) had kept His word. (3) They had not denied our Lord’s name. These are the things that matter. They are called FAITHFULNESS.

    Go back and read again 1 Cor. 15:58 that we started with. Look at the words that are used.
    STEADFAST; UNMOVABLE; ABOUNDING IN GOD’S WORK. Let’s fix our eyes on these, and get away from the devil’s way of doing things. God is looking for your FAITHFULNESS. Pastors – you are not there to entertain but to teach and build up the flock that God has put under your care.

    And to everyone who are following the Lord, His teachings, please, please carry out His instructions, and be obedient to His calling by going out into the world and live my HIS COMMISSION and forget about shooting someone who happens to come across your path for various reasons. Guns will not solve anything but the Word of God will if believed and carried out, and what will happen in the Last Days will be fulfilled as God’s Word prophesies.

    Shalom!

  337. AmericanChristian Jan 24th 2013

    Forgive me for arguing.
    Andrew, I truly wish you had never posted this debate.
    It has truly caused much strife and contention. Forgive me for contributing on my part.
    I am done.

  338. Journey Jan 24th 2013

    Andrew, I too wish you had not posted this question. Even though you used my reply, I have seen no conclusions, only opinions, and each side has their scriptures.
    I wish I could withdraw my statements.
    I believe I will cease from this forum.
    God Bless you all.
    One more statement… the most valuable statement of all my Christian life, I remember one pastor saying.
    If you want to be successful in your walk the best thing you can do is..

    Read the Bible and Pray.

  339. DonaldN Jan 24th 2013

    Wow. Had to go to bed last night and do some praying for a few folk. A little “heated debate” going on.

    If I were God this would be my reply to the bunch of you, “DO I HAVE TO SEPARATE YOU? STOP THIS BICKERING OR I AM GOING TO GET OUT THE BELT”

    Hebrews 12:7…for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    I am done with this discussion. I will check back in the future to see if there is a discussion that is worthy to make replies. If not, I will be finding another website to follow.

  340. John S Jan 24th 2013

    Andrew – thanks for this web site of yours. May it continue to function and with the topics raised.
    When the coming world leader (the Anti Christ) takes the helm, web sites like yours and those preaching an unadulterated Gospel message of repentance and salvation, will be closed down.

    Thank you Pastor Keith for your encouragement and the wisdom the Lord has given you.

    And to everyone who has contributed. Food for thought!

    I will end by saying this – Brethren should be armed with the Word of God and not guns.

    Your brother in Christ
    John S

  341. harvestistipe Jan 24th 2013

    Until we are faced with harm or death unrighteously persecuted I say only those whom are faced with harm from their enemy to destroy them or ill them, only then will we know how we are to respond, God will show us the way.

    The perercuted church could teach us alot. Many even today are dying and some in prison for their faith, one thing I see is these whom will not deny Jesus and will die for their faith shall be given a martrys crown and are the most precious in Gods kingdom.

    I believe in the days aproaching us we would be better off concerning ourselves with how we would respond if we are told to deny Jesus,or die or go to prision, it is coming to America the world. can we stand strong steadfast unshakable in our faith?

    Journey you sy read Gods word and Pray this is a pearl of advice we have to come to Know our God such as David did such as did the disciples of Jesus Christ we must seek him daily.

    I ask all here to pray for our brother here my heart crys out to the Lord for his peace to surrond him.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/22/iran-court-convicts-christian-pastor-convert-to-death/

  342. Youcef was released. Jan 7. Praise and glory to God. Love n blessings to all.

  343. I love you all……………….and PRAISE the LORD .
    At times it is necessary to bring up the tough subjects
    so as we can examine ourselves and see if any has hidden faults.
    Andrew did well to do this. THIs gives others the chance
    to pray for any with faults unknown and now known.
    I want to give us all a SERIOUS word to ponder on.
    ITS in first corinthians ch 11
    WHEN we(believers) are judged we are chastend of GOD,
    so that we are not CONDEMNED with the rest of the world.
    Or in second thess……….first chapter.
    OUr chastenings, our persecutions, ARE the RIGHTEOUS judgment of GOD…………….that we SUFFER for the KINGDOM.
    And one more
    IT is written that NOT ONLY are we appointed to BELIEVE on HIS NAME………….BUT ALSO to SUFFER for HIS NAMES sake.
    OR in hebrews, it explains chastenings are for OUR PROFIT
    that we are MADE PARTAKERS of HIS HOLINESS.
    Read also phillipains. and Peters.
    Peter tells of HOW GOD IS GLORIFIED in our SUFFEREINGS
    IF WE TAKE THEM PATIENTLY.
    LET us learn…………………of CHRIST, let us again
    with a good first Love………….read the bible and pray.

  344. PASTOR KEITH………………..Pastor KEITH
    A HEARTY AMEN.
    NUMBERS matter NOT……….
    TRUTH and preaching GODS word
    exhorting one another. and preaching the gosple
    to thteLOST are what matter……….
    Where is yalls lil group from…………..?
    I reside way down here in texas.
    Be blessed.

  345. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    Amen Randall :-)

    ***

    I add my thanks and appreciation to all those who have posted encouragement and truth.

    May the grace, mercy, peace, presence and love of Jesus Christ our risen Lord be with you, as you walk with.., and abide in.., Him

  346. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    There is a big reason why I couldn’t just “leave” this topic and not post it.

    If there ever were a Civil War in America – or some kind of serious civil turmoil, I believe many Christians could be greatly harmed if they have not already thought-through and pondered these issues.

    It is definitely a “warning” – and one that I felt I had to put out.

    Sorry to those who have been offended

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom

  347. Tiffany Jan 24th 2013

    @Randall AMEN & AMEN to your post!!! I agree completely! Thank you again Andrew for this topic it is indeed much needed and I am thankful for you posting it.

    I see so much fear in the hearts of many professing believers and I have to wonder if such truly know The Lord and what I mean by this is having a personal relationship with Jesus, not just knowing OF Him but truly knowing Him AND the word of God. If so, there should be no need of fear and speaking of possible tribulations/persecutions in the near future on christians. Sadly I personally believe that many christians here in America have no clue what it means to be truly persecuted. Just ask our brothers and sisters who abide in India, Asia, Africa and so on who are persecuted daily and even killed for their faith. Here in America I believe many christians think that once we come to accept the Lord Jesus as Savior, etc. then for the rest of our lives we will have no trials, no tribulations, no sufferings of any sort. This is where the problem lies within the church, there is no discipleship to “new” christians, they are instead given a “feel good” gospel preached to them portraying Jesus as some sort of “santa clause” anything they want and need they will have. They are not taught that there will be persecution, there will be sorrows, struggles, pains, testings, trials, etc. but to remain steadfast in Him. Then when tribulation do arise they know not how to handle it (lacking faith in the power of His word) so they depart from Him and return back to the old way of life.

    The truth of the matter is if we are in Christ Jesus and expect to reign with Him we must also expect to suffer persecution for His name sake. If the Apostles did not escape persecution, or the prophets of old and great men/women of God, then we also shall not escape persecution, but if we truly trust in The Lord our God then we know He will indeed bring us through. Those of us who know this world is not our home are prepared to do just that! I am not afraid of what man can do to the body as he can never have my soul, my spirit, my heart as ALL this belongs to The Lord. I am HIS and He is mine and I SURRENDER ALL to HIM! Again my FAITH is my weapon and my HOPE is in The Lord.

    God bless you all!!

  348. Shannah Jan 24th 2013

    Andrew, You are right! It has come to me now for a couple years as know of groups of people preparing for that time, and at the same time mention of certain men who incite this even before anything was happening but was talking about how the government was going to throw us all into concentration camps, and that they were going to protect themselves and families. I love all, but cannot be a party to that kind of thinking, it is not from God, Jesus said if you save your life you will lose your life. My point is there have been agitators setting this up actually thought they were from government but now do not know just know they are seeing this all up to happen and our brothers and sisters are getting in hook, line and sinker. We need to be praying for all including government, and our brothers and sisters.1 Tim 2:1-4, Romans 13:1-13 And that Jesus would reveal himself to them. Pray for the Church

  349. Andrew, not to beat a dead horse, but I just need to make sure who I am dealing with here.

    Let me ask my question just a little different way so I am certain of your position.

    As I understand it, there are no limits in your mind at this point. Regardless of how many people are raped and slaughtered before your very eyes, day after day, month in and month out, it is your intention not to raise a finger to defend any of them, regardless of what resources you have at your disposal? Not family, not neighbors, not local law enforcement, not anybody? You are not going to use force to help anybody? Have I got that right?

  350. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    Jay – I realise that you asked the question of Andrew, but was it not you that yesterday, said:

    Jay Jan 24th 2013

    Not interested in answering foolish and unlearned questions.

    …and yet you expect the same of others..?

  351. Pastor Keith Jan 24th 2013

    This is for Randall Lowrey and all my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I live near Southend on Sea which is on the east coast of England.
    This word is for everyone and hopefully will encourage yourselves and for brother Andrew to continue with his website whatever objections that are made…

    “And this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life” 1 John 2:26

    A promise is a promise and should always be kept. We need to remember this in our dealings with others, if we can’t deliver, we should not promise. In fact, a promise is only as good as the word of the one who has promised. When politicians make election promises, we seldom actually believe them! Why? Because experience tells us that their broken promises of the past are no foundation on which to believe their current manifestos. The records speak for themselves.

    Now look at the record of Almighty God! What He has promised has been fulfilled!

    Isaiah 4:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” —FULFILLED!

    “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given” Isaiah 9:6 – -
    FULFILLED!

    “But my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus” Phil.4:19 – - FULFILLED

    I could go on, right through the Bible and pick out promise after promise that have all been fulfilled and proved by Christians down through the ages. God’s track record is absolute perfection, He has never failed to keep His word!

    So, when Jesus said this………………

    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have eternal life”

    ………..we have no reason to doubt that it is so!

    If we truly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then we have eternal life in Him!

    And again – just as we have countless promises of His first coming, all fulfilled, we have even more promises concerning His second coming. This is why I have been preaching the end time message for the past 45 years, and the last fourteen years on the Internet when able. Jesus said He is coming back, and I believe Him!

    “I will come again and receive you unto myself: that where I am, there ye may be also” John 14:3b

    What tremendous blessings we have as true believers! He came into this world to die upon the cross to save us from our sins. We get born again by the Holy Spirit who lives within us. He supplies all our needs. He helps us overcome. He gives us victories upon victories as we trust Him with our lives. He puts eternity in our hearts and gives us a blessed hope in His return!

    One day soon, Jesus will come again in the clouds. The dead in Christ will rise from the grave and those of us who are living will rise to meet Him and return to heaven with Him to a wonderful place that He is even now preparing. (1 Thess. 4:13-18 – John 14:2)

    It really is time to prepare to meet our Lord! Remember who it is who has promised! Remind yourself of His track record (His faithfulness) Trust in the one who will never let you down.

    “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” Matt. 24:35

    “He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus.” Rev. 22:20

    Would you be so kind as to sing this song which is sung in my little congregation.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M-zwE33zHA
    And finally, blessings in Him who is coming soon!

  352. Peter H Jan 24th 2013

    To Pastor Keith.
    Thank you so much for your word of encouragement.
    Very much appreciated in times or trials and tribulations.
    I would say to everyone reading and making comments on this web site and this is
    Keep looking up and walk with Him who has saved you!!

  353. Roger (NZ) Jan 24th 2013

    Pastor Keith – Amen and thankyou dear brother :-)

    Indeed, “Because He lives..” we have so much, we have hope and we have life..

    In His love,
    Roger

  354. Tiffany Jan 24th 2013

    To PASTOR KEITH….God bless you!! Thank you for this encouragement. God bless you always!!!

  355. Andrew Jan 24th 2013

    Jay – you asked the following (rather silly) question-

    “Regardless of how many people are raped and slaughtered before your very eyes, day after day, month in and month out, it is your intention not to raise a finger to defend any of them, regardless of what resources you have at your disposal?”

    We are not dealing with such an issue. Of course I am going to start hiding people and getting them to safety if such things are happening!! But this has nothing to do with the issues here.

    The “non-resistance” that we have spoken of all along is if Government people turn up and take people away. That is it. Some say “shoot” the Government people. I say that to do so would be totally unChristian and unChristlike. And I believe the same thing about fighting in a ‘Civil War’ against the Government. It would be totally wrong to do so.

    “Who would Jesus shoot?”

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  356. antipas4yahshua Jan 24th 2013

    Dont you know that American Christians are not going to go through any tribulation despite the slaughter of 10 million Jews (chosen people) only 70 years ago ?

    They are going to be raptured without being resurrected (better be sure you dress warm and nothing is over your head) while the Jews (even the elect Jews) are left to face anti-christ, great tribulation, and the great temptation that is going to come on the whole earth.

    Wow !!
    Translation to the level of Enoch !!
    So if that is right, they are in the heavens eating ice cream without getting fat, wearing golden slippers, at ease, air conditioned mansions that are cleaned by angels.
    I am impressed with these “super Christians” that are so common place !! I wish I was one of them.

    Exactly when do you get the new resurrected bodies and when does the Jesus come, what about the elect Jews ? So, there are 3 comings of Christ ? I didnt know the OT/NT scriptures said that..

    If that is the case – SIGN ME UP !!

    I want eat ice cream with my cake, cherries, take a pill, not work out, and not get fat. I love American Christianity – who do I make my check to ?
    Honestly, I prefer to stay here with my Jewish brothers and endure to the end and somehow make the first resurrection.

    Shalom

  357. Well said Pastor Keith. God never breaks His promises. We reap what we sew. Can you give us a verse that promises we will not encounter or have to deal with the things we have been talking about so that we can put this subject to rest and know that we won’t have to make such decisions which could potentially be displeasing to the Lord? I realize that He has said He will not allow us to be tempted above that we are able to stand, but will with the temptation make a way of escape that we may be able to bear it. But what that tells me is, get ready because trouble is coming and it’s a part of His plan.

    Revelation 3:10 comes to mind about keeping us from the hour of temptation which will come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth. But then much troulbe could happen between now and the 7 year tribulation to which that verse refers. Don’t get me wrong, homosexuality and other sins too numerous to mention have taken over and I can sit and watch with the rest of you while God remedies that problem and I don’t plan to lift a finger to stop it just like Andrew said. I certainly don’t want to stand in opposition to Gods judgement. I’ve already tried to warn this world and was just threatened for doing so.

    I’ve trusted Jesus and Him alone to pay for my sins and I’m ready to go be with Him. But when I get there I want to make sure I did what He expected of me here so I won’t have to be ashamed for being a coward that stood by while the innocent were being slaughtered. Can you straighten me out on that? Please tell me where my understanding is wrong there if you don’t mind. I would really appreciate it. I just want to make sure that it is OK with God for me to sit by and do nothing while the innocent are slaughtered. By the way, if it happens to be you and your family, do you want me to sit by and do nothing in that case as well?

  358. Graham Peacock Jan 24th 2013

    This is for Christian journalist to encourage you

    I Hear the Sound of Rustling
    by Ronnie Wilson

    I hear the sound of rustling in the leaves of the trees
    The Spirit of the Lord has come down on the earth
    The church that seemed in slumber has now risen from its knees
    And dry bones are responding with the fruits of new birth
    Oh, this is now a time for declaration
    The word will go to all men everywhere
    The church is here for healing of the nations
    Behold the day of Jesus drawing near

    My tongue will be the pen of a ready writer
    And what the Father gives to me
    I’ll singI only want to be His breath
    I only want to glorify the King

    And all around the world the body waits expectantly
    The promise of the Father is now ready to fall
    The watchmen on the tower all exhort us to prepare
    And the church responds-a people who will answer the call
    And this is not a phase which is passing
    It’s the start of an age that is to come
    And where is the wise man and the scoffer?
    Before the face of Jesus they are dumb

    My tongue will be the pen of a ready writer
    And what the Father gives to me I’ll sing
    I only want to be His breath
    I only want to glorify the King

    A body now prepared by God and ready for war
    The prompting of the Spirit is our word of command
    We rise, a mighty army, at the bidding of the Lord
    The devils see and fear, for their time is at hand
    And children of the Lord hear our commission
    That we should love and serve our God as one
    The Spirit won’t be hindered by division
    In the perfect work that Jesus has begun

    My tongue will be the pen of a ready writer
    And what the Father gives to me I’ll sing
    I only want to be His breath
    I only want to glorify the King

    Listen on
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trcLOful_Js

    Keep writing and warning my brother.

  359. David Marsh Jan 25th 2013

    Pastor Keith is right,
    We ought to keep our eyes on Him who watches over us, Who is watching all of our actions and thoughts.

    We are going to be tested very severely.
    Shall we ignore the plight of the persecuted. No, of course not. We will do everything we can to defend and help our family and friends. But that does not mean that we should use violence and commit murder in this endeavor.

    Matthew 10:16[ Persecutions Are Coming ]
    “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

    And as far as justice goes for evil acts against us.

    Hebrews 10:30
    For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”

    The real issue, in these circumstances, is Salvation. Do our family and friends have Salvation, as an earthly death will come to all of us in a variety of ways – determined by the Lord.

    God bless you all

    David Marsh.

  360. Thanks to all of you who stand faithfully on the Word of God, encouraging, rebuking as needed, and obeying our Lord. You have been a great encouragement to me in showing me I am not alone, buried by the persecution emanating from the false church in America. A church and a people that bare no fruit of righteousness, but of death. Jesus commanded that we judge fruit, and that we be like the Bereans and test and try the word to see if it is from God. It is not true that rebellion and violence are ever necessary. That is from the devil. Jay, you are deceived. You have been listening to the voices of false prophets. To even some who have literally rewritten history to make a point different from God’s point. Your words have proven your intent and your heart. You have not been willing to receive counsel from godly men and women, but have pressed and persecuted them instead. I pray that you will be able to repent and return to the Lord God and cling to the only salvation possible, Jesus, the Christ, and his Word. Obey him. Turn off all deceitful voices who tell you violence has a place. Turn away completely from them and you will find peace and rest in Christ.

  361. Tiffany Jan 25th 2013

    In total agreement with Cara in Jesus Name!! Amen & Amen

  362. Roger (NZ) Jan 25th 2013

    Jay – you ask this of Pastor Keith, and others..?

    I just want to make sure that it is OK with God for me to sit by and do nothing while the innocent are slaughtered. By the way, if it happens to be you and your family, do you want me to sit by and do nothing in that case as well?

    My answer is NO, I would not expect you to sit and watch, do nothing – I would expect you to stand together with other Christians, to stand beside me, without a gun, just the armour of God, and the sword of the Spirit – between the attackers and those attacked, to speak out that Christ Jesus is Lord and God, that He came the first time for sinners, He came for the salvation of mankind, He is those ‘attackers’ last hope – because when He, Lord Jesus returns, it will be different, He will destroy those who have continued to oppose and deny Him.

    Better my blood be shed, my life be taken, than those who do not know Lord Jesus as the Messiah of God.

    My Hope is in Christ Jesus my Lord, I trust Him, and abide IN Him – He is my shelter from every storm.

    In His love, for all mankind,
    Roger

  363. Roger (NZ) Jan 25th 2013

    Amen David and Cara

  364. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    @ Andrew – “Who would Jesus shoot ? Good question. However, it is a false premise.
    Christ doesn’t use guns.
    From what I read, a sword from His mouth.

    So how about starting off with a correct premise ?

    Exactly what the word say in regards to responding to evil or being sued ? Is this suitable ?
    In summary, dont resist and give them more. In addition, Paul said let yourselves be defrauded.
    If that is the case, then the Civil War against slavery would have not taken place and even fa step further – America would have never become a nation. It would still be under England.
    There is a little bit of a problem when taking the scriptures literally, there would be a lot of amputees and self inflicted one eyed Christians.
    Your thoughts ?
    There are German who resisted Nazis during WWII and fought against their own countrymen and assisted Jews.
    Btw, Germany is a very much a Protestent nation. Imagine going to church on Sunday, singing hymns, hearing about Jesus and then going to duty in a extermination camp ? If one doesn’t think that occurred then think again. It happened.
    So proposing that question – “what would Jesus do ?” Would one be willing to take a stand (ie not a rifle but a stand and say this is wrong ?)

    That my fellow brother is where the rubber hits the road.

    History shows (feel free to prove this false). The frist step of genocide is the removal of defense.
    This can not be denied since there are 262,000,000 THIS CENTURY ALONE.

    It is difficult to predict what a person will do when placed in a situation (Peter found this out the hard way and is a very brave man imo for defending and even placing himself in harms way – that takes serious guts) .

    Each person better be hearing from Jesus and be wire-tight otherwise they will default and more than likely be part of the great falling away or not endure the great temptation (this is to be feared not tribulation).
    Christianity was born under tribulation / evil empirical mob rule and did VERY WELL has does well under all others. It is only when it is offered ease and prosperity does it backslide (Just like Israel).

    So to answer your question what would Jesus do ?

    He would ask the Father and be led by the Holy Spirit since does nothing of Himself – to say otherwise places one on very, very, very thin ice….

    Keep in mind – G_d “will give to each person according to what he has done.

    Shalom

  365. “Peace, Peace they say. But their words are drawn swords.”

  366. Christian journalist Jan 25th 2013

    This is for Jay

    The question is are you a spirit filled born again christian?
    Another is what gifts of the Holy Ghost the Lord has given you?
    Do you fear the Lord God Almighty or human beings?
    Are you walking with the Lord Jesus Christ or following men and women who claim to be religious and are the anointed ones?
    Do you personally read the Word of God or rely on what is said by other people?
    Are you praying in the Spirit of God or asking our Heavenly Father for things on a shopping list?
    Do you take the End Times seriously or dismiss the Last Days as not yet here?
    Are you prepared to be taken by Him anytime or still want to enjoy life a little bit more on planet earth?
    Are you willingly to lay down your life for the Lord Jesus Christ and people around you or just want to save your own life, family and friends?
    The final question is this – the Lord is coming as a thief in the night. Are you ready when He calls you to leave everything behind or do you wish to continue in what you are doing and remain.
    Tough questions to answer.
    Please seek the Lord about them.
    I have already given my answers to Him. I found the answers written in the Word of God, the Bible. Through prayer and listening to Him, He has answered my questions.
    Believers have been encouraging one another in song.
    This song is for you. See link below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhvaDJTUmrU

  367. Christian journalist. Those are all very easy questions for me to answer. Not one of them is difficult for me to answer as you implied. Nothing on this earth worth staying for when The Lord calls. The signs of the times are definitely here. What, you want to stay here and pay more taxes? Stay here and watch the banks collapse and people starve? Stay here and watch foreign troops slaughter and rape?

    Christian journalist. Can I ask you a question. When was the last time you witnessed to a lost person?

    I don’t think so.

  368. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    Further thoughts on “Would Jesus shoot” and presenting it a gentile holocaust in the USA in terms of evil dictator

    Btw, once the 2nd amendment goes the 1st amendment is next which is free speech and religion.

    Christians held in Fema camps awaiting extermination due to “extremist bigoted views”.

    What would you do ?

    Daniel 11:32 – Those who know their God shall be strong and do mighty exploits
    Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed

    Wow…..in this manner anyone who wants to harm them must die.

    So who need a rifle ?

  369. Jay:
    Turn your eyes upon Jesus and not people.
    Listen to these words on this song
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO4uIyz_d90

    Shalom!

  370. antipas4yahshua, you bring up some excellent points about Nazi death camps and Christian responsibility. This subject of what you would do if you lived by one of the death trains taking Jews to the torture and death camps in Nazi Germany has come up before. As you hear the screams of those headed for slaughter, what is the correct response?

    I think that the disconnect here in American churches is the fact that these people who call themselves Christians in America are so detached from history and reality that they really can’t conceive of just how bad things will be. That’ s because they have bought into the lie that man is basically good and with the exception of the Nazi’s it could never happen anywhere else. So they mentally block reality and try to ease out by saying that they will just accept death when the time comes and don’t even consider what that might mean for their brothers and sisters. But it’s never that easy. Andrew makes the same mistake. He has been so sheltered from reality and truth that actually believes it can’t happen in the United States of America. The fact is that it is happening in America as we speak and not just at abortion clinics where little babies face excruciating pain while Christians sit in church making themselves feel good about the color of the carpet and how entertaining the preacher was. The Bible says that he who stops his ears at the cry of the poor shall cry out himself and shall not be heard.

    We reap what we sew.

  371. Christian journalist Jan 25th 2013

    Today Jay and I have talked to people as the Lord leads and when opportunites become available.
    I am not afraid to do so since the Rev Arthur Blessitt encouragement me way back many years ago and in using Jesus stickers and Gospel tracts.
    Try going to Northern Ireland in the1970s sharing your testimony at meetings where IRA and UDA members were in the midst. I did!
    Nearly blown up twice.
    In dealing with the media, I am surrounded by those who do not know Christ and ones who ridicule our Creator.
    Suggest that you become a servant of the King.
    Listen to these words on this song to encourge you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pv1dUNJVJ4
    Glad that brethren are doing so on Andrew’s web site.
    Maranatha!

  372. John, Thanks for the YouTube(Turn your eyes upon Jesus)
    Pretty song.

  373. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    @ Jay – it is compartmentalized thinking or classic deception.
    You are correct on the abortion. It is one the many reason the judgement on America (the main one imo). The many Christians I know have no idea the demands of discipleship or holiness. They were lied to by the used car salesman masquarding as a evangelist or pastor ( never called in the first place).

    Judgement comes to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. The Jews had their Holocaust – now it is time for the the Gentiles.
    It is a classic reaping what is sown as you mentioned.

    The pastors / leaders are just as the soothsayers seen in the OT who were hungry for gain:
    - they dont preach repentance, cross carrying discipleship, holiness, righteousness, and stern obedience.
    - Not willing to exchange the tax free status to speak out / stand against issues.
    - Made a mess of Pauls writings (lawless grace), rapture for resurrection, and no deeper life teaching/message (Its all about entertainment).

    There are consequences for every single action and word. This is not known by many who have been lulled to sleep or blinded by buying, selling, and marriage, and the American way (this is spiritual death and as well as physical death).
    The sin of Sodom was abundance of food and idleness.

    Please pray that G_D will open the eyes of the hearts of His people…..

  374. Christian journalist, not familiar with Arthur Blessitt. My apologies for getting the paragraphs out of order on my last post to you. That probably left you wondering.

    But anyway, I’m glad that you are actively witnessing and not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Keep up the good work. You know what Jesus said, “Whoever is ashamed of Me and My Words in this wicked and adulterous generation, I will be ashamed of him when I stand before My Father in heaven.”

    Best wishes.

  375. My dad was in the Royal Air Force during WW2 and my uncles were soldiers. They believed in God.
    They fought the Nazi and Imperial Japan who wanted to take over the world.
    I would have done the same.
    History teaches about how fascism tried its best to rid the world of Jews and the effects of the holocaust. Nazism wanted to conquer Great Britain and Europe.
    Our nation was called to pray when our soldiers were stranded on the beaches of Dunkirk. The churches were packed with people in prayer.
    Almighty God answered prayer.
    The same happened during the Battle of Britain.
    Praise the Lord! For I would not be here today.

  376. It’s inevitable that very difficult times will come. The Bride of Christ will not be made white without trials and tribulations. It’s always been that way throughout history.

    The separation of the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the true believers from the fake – This cannot take place until it’s dangerous to be a true believer in Jesus Christ.

    The Bride is very white and clean in those countries where persecution is at its greatest. America’s turn is coming.

  377. Christian journalist Jan 25th 2013

    Arthur Blessitt is a lot older than me. The vision he received from our Heavenly Father was to carry a wooden cross to every nation upon earth. He preached Christ crucified whilst doing so and witnessed for Jesus.
    He has completed his mission.
    Care to do the same by example if younger than me?

  378. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    What Sally said !!!!!!

  379. Christian Journalist, I’ve seen several people do that in my lifetime. Does he wear a frock of some type? Appears to be a prophet of the Old Testament and carries a big wooden cross and goes to public events to pray.

    I saw and prayed with such a man on the Mall at the 2nd Clinton inauguration in DC. He was calling for repentance and prayer. You think it might be the same guy?

  380. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    Antipas4yahshua

    I so feel for you, thinking people could believe such a selfish goal, ecapisim ..`ice-cream etc,` in heaven.You are right, how could anyone believe that.

    But that presentation is not the truth of Christ`s great purposes for the Body of Christ, Israel & the Nations. (1 Cor. 10: 32)

    At the moment (& for the past 2000 years) the Lord Jesus Christ has been maturing His Body. He is also protecting Israel from the millions around, intent on wiping them out, & He is also `herding the nations,` into 4 confederacies that together form the Global Government, then will judge them. (Joel 3: 2 Knox Zech. 6: 1 – 8)

    The Body of Christ`s purpose is to rule & reign with Christ. (Rev. 3: 21) Nothing of ourselves merits this. It is Christ who is maturing us individually & as the Body of Christ to be overcomers of the deception (lies) of the devil.

    Trials, temptations, pain, suffering, dying to self has been, is & will be for all of us in the Body of Christ.

    Then when Christ has brought the Body of Christ to maturity of Faith – `not tossed to & fro,` then He will bring it to its eternal setting in the third heaven on His throne with Him. From here the Body of Christ, as the heavenly court will judge the world system & the fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

    That is totally awesome that only by God`s Spirit can we believe that. Then did we make ourselves? put our bodies together or make our brains to work? How awesome are we made. So in our new glorified bodies like unto His, the Lord will enable us to do what He has purposed.

    Our goal is not frivolous but will take every ounce of `dying to self,` & putting aside how the world thinks, for us to be overcomers.

  381. http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

    Christian Journalist, what do you make of the above YouTube?

  382. Victor Jan 25th 2013

    I’m a truck driver. The same day I received an email about this, I was in a fuel station in Missouri and heard the clerk at the desk announce very boldly that he had stored up 6,000 rounds of ammunition and had more coming. He said he didn’t vote for Obama and he wasn’t going to sit by while America was taken over by the government…or something like that. He wasn’t at all ashamed of talking like that publicly. Everyone else in the room seemed to agree. They were all the tobacco chewing, country type, but they didn’t seem to shy about using force to defend what they thought was right. I keep hearing about states talking about seceding from the Union because of all the laws the federal government has been pushing on the states. I can’t believe this is all coincidence. I’m not looking for this kind of news. It just keeps popping up in front of me.

  383. Something we seem to be forgetting is that judgement will come first to the church. We’re focused on the world and all the homosexuality, abortion and losing our religious rights–shaking our fingers in scorn and telling them they need to quit their sinning. That’s what we’re doing instead of sharing the gospel of Christ in love. We can’t share the gospel in love while our fingers are being shaken in scorn. They won’t listen, and why should they? The church will be judged first, for their own sins–arrogance, greed, following lying prophets, divorce and winking at divorce, carrying on about abortion while thinking only of the innocent baby and not taking the opportunity to love the mother, witness to her of God’s love, but instead yelling “MURDERER!” to her. We’ll be judged for that first, before the world will be judged for their sins. Love the world exactly the way the God did–”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son to die for their sins…” He’ll be the ones to judge them. Stay in the Word, pray, and go to the world in love and share the gospel of Christ–not the gospel of fear, shame, and politics.

  384. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    @ Marilyn- Truth requires a ear to hear. You brought out a significant gem of new bodies like His ( It is a change of condition not a change of place) and overcoming as seen in Rev 2-3.
    The rewards go the overcomers. Those who dont overcome face stiff consequences. This is in agreement with the parables (talent, unprofitable serviert, unjust steward, virgins, wedding garment etc…)

    Btw, here is interesting gem that is rather enlightening.
    The local sheriffs are taking a stand against the breaking of constitutional law.

    http://cspoa.org/sheriffs-gun-rights/

    With that being said – what would Jesus do is a interesting question ?

    Theses men and women took a oath of office to uphold the constitution, laws, and protect the public.
    As mentioned the present administration is attempting to “change the times” and break the break constitution laws that are in place.

    Who is righteous and who isn’t ?
    What would Jesus do is a interesting question. Soliders were told to be happy with their pay and dont defraud anyone. Keep in mind this was not the pratorian guard who were evil pedophiles and caused the fall of Rome.

    Keep in mind the riots in UK last year where the police weren’t even allowed to have guns to protect the public let alone themselves.

    Food for thought…

    Shalom

  385. Serenity Jan 25th 2013

    ” My kingdom is not of this world : IF My kingdom were of this world, THEN would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews : …”
    Jesus speaking to Pilate in John 18 : 36.

    This verse came to me as I read a lot of the above debate.
    The answers really are in the Word of God.

    So it seems that if our hopes are set on this world, THEN we will take up earthly arms against misguided authority.
    Imagine if the disciples had overridden Jesus in Gethsemane and spirited Him away so that the Cross of redemption never happened.

    I have seen God, in answer to four minutes’ prayer, blind a person to something that was right there, when they were resisting God’s will.
    He can do it again – IF He wills. Amen !!

  386. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    Good one Serenity.

  387. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    antipas4yahshua

    Thank you for your reply. You said -”It is a change of condition not a change of place.”

    How wondrous it would be to have a new earthly body that was never sick, or wore out, or died. Yet amazing as it sounds we are to be changed into bodies like our Lord.

    Remember He could `go through` walls, time, place & space. What on earth would the use of that body be restricted to this earth!!

    That is the wonder of being in the Body of Christ with that as our inheritance.

    Jesus said -
    `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne as I also overcame & sat down with My Father on His throne.`

  388. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    Revelation 3: 21

  389. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    A 12 year old direct by Jesus armed with a BB gun could take army if directed by Jesus. Remember David & Goliath to put things in perspective – 1 angel wiped out the entire Sytian army of 185,000….ONE !!!
    It is a spiritual battle and the outcome is decided before it takes place.

    Here is a OT account and NT scripture to consider:

    2 Kings 1:12 (this occurred 2 times).
    “If I am a man of God,” Elijah replied, “may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then the fire of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men.

    2 Kings 2:24 ( loaded verse – 42 = 3 1/2 years & two bears = double portion)
    Elisha turned around and looked at them, and he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of them.

    Daniel 11:32 – Those who know their God shall be strong and do mighty exploits

    Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

    Rev 11:6
    These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

    There will be season for this and guns are not needed. However, stern obedience, righteousness, and holiness is.

    “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” Matt 26

    Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [testing], which shall come upon all the world, to try [test] them that dwell upon the earth” (Revelation 3:10)

    THERE IS A VAST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUDGEMENT VS WRATH
    (Judgement refines and is redemptive – wrath is total annihilation ie Sodom).

    THERE IS A VAST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TEMPTATION VS TRIBULATION
    Rev 3:10 is so misunderstood – the Greek supports this.
    Try this on… Lets try the word “removal” vs “protect” in context.

    Because thou has “removed/raptured” the word of my patience, I also will “remove/rapture from the hour of “TEMPTATION” (note not tribulation).
    This is NOT sound nor fitting – it is forced (ie “escape theology not scriptural).
    Because they “protected” His word Christ will “protect them” in the “hour of Temptation” .
    This is perfect reaping what one sows.
    The OT/NT demonstrates over and over again of G_DS protection to His servants and friends.

    “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.” IS 42, Psalm 91, Psalm 18.
    G_D sets a table in the presence of mine enemies ( it is a invitation )

    It is a testimony and witness !! These are glorious times we are living. Many a holy saint of G_D would gladly exchange their place with yours. G_D saves the best wine for last !!!!

    Shalom

  390. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    @ Marilyn – you are so right about new bodies ( Dan 12:2-3, Rev 1:13-15)
    Our conduct will determine our condition and place
    - Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints. Rev 19:8
    - …. been given authority to judge…. who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ….
    This is the first resurrection…..they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Rev 20
    - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever Dan 12 ( this is my fave -WOW !!!!)

    Shalom

  391. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    antipas4yahshua

    Good to chat with you. You are correct if a 12 yr old etc but only if directed by Jesus. Q. What is Jesus directing now?

    You have some good scriptures there (2 Kings, Dan. etc) However they refer to Israel who is an earthly nation with an earthly inheritance. They had to physically fight other nations as you showed for their earthly inheritance & still do.

    Now the Body of Christ is a heavenly nation & its purpose is to rule & reign in the 3rd heaven with Christ Jesus.

    Yes many Old Testament saints would change places with us But they NEVER KNEW of the Body of Christ as it was not revealed until the Holy Spirit revealed it to the Apostle Paul. Why? Because if Satan had realised that God through His Son was going to prepare a Body of people that would rule & reign where he, Satan has reigned, before the fall, in the 3rd heaven, then he never would have crucified our Lord.

    You seem to mix up the 3 purposes, as many do of – the Body of Christ, Israel & the nations.

  392. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    That would be wonderful `antipas4yahshua` to `shine like the stars,` but that is for some in Israel, we the Body of Christ have a much higher calling.

  393. AMEN to all who take up no carnal weapons.
    I have warned enough . BY now jay and hugh, and others
    must KNOW they cant sway us.
    WE can ONLY pray for them. ROGER, ANDREW, PASTOR KEITH, cara, tiffany……………….and the others
    WHO LOVE THE LORD from a pure heart. AMEN.
    I love you all, and pray for us all.
    NOW i say again LET us ALL go back to GOOD sound doctrine
    fully read the word. and pray .
    I have said this before, there appears to be three sides……
    THE left new age liberal ………WHICH is by far the BIGGEST
    then the right national christians………….
    THEN the remnant who LIVE BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.
    THE last are by far, far the smallest.
    THEY take up no arms , they have NO fear of losing their life
    for the gosple, they love all, specially the brethren
    and they focus on the gosple.
    THE other two sides are being used to set up the one world
    leader called son of perdtion. BUT , we pray for all
    to come out of darkness……………and so PRAY we must . amen.

  394. antipas4yahshua Jan 25th 2013

    Here are a couple of points to consider….

    A Kingdom is both a place and set of laws. Here is a example – the British Empire stretched over a large amount of the globe at one time (ie the sun never sets on British Empire is a famous saying). One could be in a number of foreign country and still be under British rule.
    G_Ds will is done in the spiritual realm – this cannot be denied.
    King Nebcanazzar acknowledged the heavens rule ( Dan 4:26). Satan has to ask for permission to do things (ie Job).
    The prayer is for G_Ds will to be done in the earth just as it in heaven.

    The Kingdom of God is both a place and a set of laws. There is a external kingdom as well a internal ( the Kingdom of God Is within you) as well as (the Kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteous, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom 14:2).
    Christ himself is the Kingdom of G_D in internally and externally (He did the will of the Father on the earth as well as do righteous and full of the Spirit )

    The new covenant is only given to the the house of Israel – this cannot be denied.
    This is seen in Jer 31:33 as well as Heb 10:16. G_D has never made a covenant with any other than the seed of Abraham / Jew.
    Never.
    Paul spoke of “ONE NEW MAN- Neither Jew nor Gentile” but of Abrahams seed (Rom 9 – 12).
    If that is the case where are the apostles ? In heaven or on earth….
    How there came to be a Gentile/Jewish separation is arrogant, unscriptural, and unsound.
    Where would Paul be ???? Everything goes to the Jew first then the Gentile (Rom 2). There is NO REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY- the new covenant is extended to the Gentiles ( Remember Peter & Cornelius ? Gentile are included – Check it out along with Rom 9 – Rom 12).

    To man was given the divine fiat of the rule of the earth (Gen 1:28-29). He was created in a garden and paradise will be restored ON THE EARTH with the exception of a wall around it as and protect.ed. The inheritance of Christ is the nations of the earth ( Psalms 2), Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn (is 60)
    – He says, “You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth. (IS 49)

    What was in the Garden with the combination of the physical and the spiritual and it was better ( G_D always move fromt the lesser to the greater and will restore the spiritual realm again with force)
    When Adam disobeyed, he hid himself. As a result, he was not allowed to eat from the tree of life (Christ) and the relationship was severed.
    G_D hid Himself (Truly you are a God who hides himself – Is 45)
    Btw, why do you think the watchers left their position and took wives.
    They left their heavenly places for the earth !!!!! Lucifer was a covering cherub over the throne of G_D and he left it for the earth and the women……
    Man was created from the earth and his home will always be on the earth. However, the difference is Christ was with them but not in them. The new covenant is Christ (Torah) in us (the writing of Christ via the Holy Spirit in our hearts and mind).

    If that isnt the case – then why is the entire creation in travail for the “revealing of the sons of G_d? (Note plural ).

    When Christ was resurrected – He was FLESH & BONES not flesh and blood which CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM – but flesh and bone and empowered by eternal life can.
    CHRIST IS THE RESURRECTION !!!! THAT IS THE GOAL !!!!!
    There is a man that is flesh and bone sitting on the highest throne in the universe – think about it.

    Nowhere in the scriptures does it promise when one “sleep/physical death” do they go to heven or the scriptures say the heaven is the goal. This is gnostic. The goal is to be with Jesus ( they follow the Lamb wherever He goes , where I AM you may be also, today you will be with ME). Wherever Jesus is at – there is righteous, peace, and joy.
    This is not dependent on enviornment but relationship.
    Remember the Mount of Transfiguration ? Christ was revealed. What did He look like ? To shine like a star is to give light – either physical light and/or moral light (1st & 4th day of creation – check it out).
    Ever hear of “throw light on the situation”

    Btw, a disciple is already in the Kingdom. “you have come unto Mt. Zion” (Heb 12:22) we are seated with Christ in heavenly places (Eph 2:6) Notice the tense, author, and who it is written to. A Messianic Jew writing to Gentile saints.
    Further, “we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses” as well as “they without us can not be made perfect”.

    I hope this makes sense- most Christians havent met a Jewish Christian ( though the scriptures were written by Jews and the original church was 5000 orthodox Jews) .

    Btw, the enemies of the OT were physical (evil). The enemies of the NT are spiritual.
    What is common to both – one has to enter the land (reminding them that we must suffer many hardships/tribulations to enter the Kingdom of God.”.

    Sorry for the ramblings and grammar – I am terrible typist and writer..

    Shalom

  395. Tiffany Jan 25th 2013

    AMEN @Randall and Cara, in 100 percent agreement with you.

    My prayer is that those who profess to be christian would forsake EVERYTHING and truly follow HIM having FAITH as the weapon of choice and looking to the author and finisher of our Faith, Christ Jesus our Lord. I pray with all my heart the church would begin to walk in His divine Love and pray for others (as His word declares) and share the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who have yet to receive Him. I am sorry to say but as I look at the “church” of today, the behavior of the vast majority which has been put on display to the world has been a disgrace in terms of how Jesus and what it means to be a “Christian” has been displayed to a lost and dying world. Instead of drawing them in, they’ve pushed them away with words of ridicule, hatred, judgment, self-righteousness and condemnation. Sadly the behavior of most has not caused the world to look at the church as something they’d desire to be a part of and why, because the church looks NO DIFFERENT from the world of which they condemn and call “sinners”. We can barely tell whose who! Someone who truly loved the Lord, and loved me and every “professing believer” enough took the time out to share Jesus and now we must take the time out to share HIM with others. This is how I’ll “occupy” until HE comes. Praying for others, sharing His word in Love, being a witness of Him to those who don’t know Him, surrendering myself completely to Him to be used for His glory as He see fit, walking in Love NOT fear and rejoicing that names are written in the Lambs book of Life.

    Randall Lowrey is right in his above posting where he states “there appears to be three sides” thus we must remain always steadfastly in prayer. These are difficult times and if possible the very elect could be deceived. Let us keep our eyes firmly on Jesus and not get caught up in fear and paranoia (none of which are of HIM) and rejoice for if we suffer with Him, we shall reign with Him.

    I’ll close with this scripture:
    For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom 8:14-21)

  396. Marilyn Crow Jan 25th 2013

    Thankyou again `antipas4yahshua`, for your good points. I`m also not worried about the ramblings & grammar.` We & others are looking to what the Lord says in His word & discussion is good as we come to the knowledge of the truth.

    You said, ” Man was created from the earth & his home will always be on the earth.”

    This is a fair assumption. But if that was all God planned then Christ would have come after Cain, then killed as a sacrifice for sinful man. Mankind would then have been restored to the early state of Adam & Eve. There would have been no need for God`s purposes of Israel & later the Body of Christ – separate purposes.

    I ask you, Why did God make Israel? & Why did God make the Body of Christ/

    Also, it always amazes me, as you, to know there is a man, who was `flesh & blood,` as we, seated at the right hand of the Father in the 3rd heaven.

  397. Peter Lawrence Jan 25th 2013

    Dear Readers,

    About three years ago I warned of the tremendous civil unrest coming to the United States on Andrew’s forum. Long before the first financial crisis I warned those in the USA to sell their properties as the values of their properties would soon collapse. I was ridiculed as a USA basher. If I was guily of any one thing it was that I placed time limits to coming events which proved incorrect. I have learned from that mistake I hope.

    Now it is time to prepare. But not in a carnal way as most of the voices you hear are demanding, but in a spiritual way. Bad times are coming. You need to wean yourself off of material things as they have no everlasting value.

    Jesus warned long ago that those who follow him would be handed over for persecution. Those who take up the sword “Jesus said” would die by the sword. He told Peter to put his sword away when his betrayers and accusers came for him. He said his kingdom was not of this world.

    Yes, it is true. Bad people now control the media, Hollywood, the music industry, your governments, and the world. Their agenda is being fast tracked at this time. Do not fall into the trap of taking up your swords/guns to fight Satan’s kingdom. Satan would take great delight in Christians taking up their swords and making Christians the enemies of the State. This is only another trap to snare you.

    John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

    The question before eveybody today is… Which kingdom do you belong to? Will you defend your worldly decaying kingdom that slips further into depravity or will you look beyond this earthly kingdom to an eternal kingdom? Yes, it is a difficult question for all of us and not easily answered. Many have built lives of success and prosperity. Most have families and loved ones and do not want to lose all you have, both for yourselves and those loved ones. But those days are now fast approaching.

    I highly recommend the following writer and his website for further teaching and instruction.
    http://www.parablesblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-great-gun-grab.html

    Blessings and peace……Peter Lawrence

  398. Christian journalist Jan 25th 2013

    Thanks for the link regarding Obama.
    What is happening in the USA is happening too in the UK.
    We are being hoodwinked by those in authority in both countries that christians should embrace other religions as their paths lead to the same God. In the UK they call this intergration and ecumenical with so called christian leaders giving their support and theology.
    Regarding the two countries being christian nations this is only a label to deceive its people. President Obama says one thing then says something completely different as with Prime Minister David Cameron, for example what the PM says on and about Europe but is only appeasing the EU and its member countries.
    But then, having said that, these are definitley the End Times which brethren have been commenting about on Andrew’s web site.
    Things are going to get worse rather than better. The evidence is there for all to see.
    Christians and people in general will have to decide for themselves how to tackle this.
    The holy bible says put your trust in Almighty God. This I am doing and I hope that you are doing likewise.
    Take up your cross and follow Jesus. That is what the Rev Arthur did literally.

  399. Pastor Keith Jan 25th 2013

    This will be my last comment for now as I believe the subject matter is exhausted.
    I would recommend a book to read called “Shadows of the Beast” written by a brother in Christ called Jacob Prasch. He is a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and other languages.
    Here below is a summary on him in what he shares. Please read carefully.

    “Unlike so many other works on the Antichrist, this book does not attempt to name a specific person or over-emphasize a single aspect of the Antichrist, but examines the whole of Scripture to fulfill the goal of the book’s subtitle, “How the identity of the coming Antichrist will be revealed to the faithful church”. This is a good-faith effort to present what the whole of Scripture has to teach about the Antichrist and how this information is supposed to be used and practically applied by the true followers of Christ. This is not a textbook work in the classic sense.
    Most books on the Antichrist overly focus on a few characteristics provided in Scripture or on a single aspect of his background. This is why at varying times throughout church history, and even to this present time, there are those who assert the Antichrist must be the pope, or that he must come from Rome, or that he must be Islamic, just to name a few of the apparent paradoxes. One of the critical teachings provided in Shadows of the Beast is how these elements are all pieces of the puzzle and that there is actually no contradiction in stating that they are all partially correct. The seeming contradictions have come about because authors and scholars have taken their one piece of the puzzle and tried to make it the solution to the whole puzzle instead of realizing they are only in possession of part of the solution. As Jacob states in the book, they are correct in what they are saying but incorrect in what they fail to say.

    To begin with, when it comes to the topic of the Antichrist, Scripture clearly depicts three aspects: the spirit of antichrist which has been and is at work during every period of history, the “many” antichrists who appear throughout Scripture and history as figures who teach something about the final one to come, and the final person of the Antichrist who is the ultimate fulfillment in the two Beasts of Revelation 13 which we most often refer to as the Antichrist and the False Prophet. (Make no mistake, however, there are two persons involved.) Therefore in order to piece together the entire puzzle it is necessary to study each of these in depth in order to know exactly what the picture looks like that we are trying to assimilate.

    In Shadows of the Beast the twenty or so chapters are divided into six major sections:

    •Part One: The Spirit of the Antichrist. This focuses on how the spirit of antichrist always is and always has been at work through false prophets and false teachers in general, and various ways of attacking or rendering ineffective God’s Word first by what Scripture calls “pseudologon”—a false word, and then by “plastios logos”—a plastic word or counterfeit of God’s Word. The spirit of antichrist has a specific agenda which lays the foundation for Satan’s plans to be ultimately fulfilled through the Antichrist which is not waiting for the final Antichrist to arrive; this is the work which is ongoing at this very minute.
    •Part Two: The Many Antichrists—Biblical. Just as many figures in Scripture such as Joseph, Moses, David, the Prophets and others all teach something about Jesus the Messiah, so there are many figures who foreshadow the Antichrist and teach different aspects of his character and activities. All of the major types are examined scripturally such as Judas, Solomon, the Herods, Pharaoh, Nimrod, Goliath, the kings of Assyria, Tyre and Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, Haman, Caesar and others. It is critical to understand how each of these pieces of the puzzle contribute to the overall whole as well as to study the names given to the Antichrist which teach about his character and agenda: “man of lawlessness”, “man of sin”, and “son of perdition”.
    •Part Three: The Many Antichrists—Historical. Although the scriptural shadows of the Antichrist are the most important, it is nonetheless critical to study the various figures in history who are obvious examples of the “many” antichrists. The most important of these is most certainly Antiochus Epiphanes IV who fulfilled much of Daniel 11 in the character of the Antichrist during the time of the Maccabees, but other important figures covered in the book are the Roman emperors, the Roman Catholic popes, Islamic types of the Antichrist, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, and others. While none of these add anything new or in addition to what Scripture attributes to the character and nature of the Antichrist, they all confirm different aspects of what the biblical types teach, reinforcing various parts of the overall picture critical to identification of the ultimate one to come.
    •Part Four: The Milieu of the Antichrist. Just as biblical prophecy provided the information how the Messiah could be identified by where he was born and the background from which He would arrive, so it is with His counterfeit. We are provided with a rich context by which the faithful will be able identify the ultimate Antichrist which Shadows of the Beast examines as to the background from which he will emerge and the timing of his arrival. Among other things this is examined in depth in explanations of Daniel’s iron and the clay, the seventy weeks of Daniel, the recapitulation of Hanukkah and the Nativity Narrative. This background is just as critical for his final identification as all the characteristics provided through the working of the spirit of the antichrist and the myriad of biblical and historical types which prefigure the Beasts of Revelation 13.
    •Part Five: The False Prophet. This is a topic which to our knowledge we have not seen addressed to this degree by other scholars or commentators, but which is usually only mentioned in passing. Scripture is actually prolific when it comes to providing us with a picture of the final False Prophet first through the myriad examples of biblical false prophets, and then individuals who serve as types who foreshadow the final one to come. Combined with extra-biblical false prophets just like the many historical types of the many antichrists, some of those discussed are Caiaphas, Ahitophel, Rabshakeh, the popes, John Hyricanus, and others. Jacob in particular focuses on the biblical concept of “The Harbinger”, how the False Prophet works as a counterfeit to John the Baptist and is seen in such examples as Zedekiah and Ahab. All of these lead up to the final discussion of how they fit together in the person of the final False Prophet to come, one of the two Beasts of Revelation 13.
    •Part Six: The Final Antichrist. This section not only sums up the attributes and person of the final Antichrist as portrayed in various parts by the many biblical and historical types, but goes into depth on one of the most important processes by which the ultimate Antichrist will be identified: the number of the Beast. While most discussions of “666” focus on trying to unlock some kind of “Bible code” or apply a cryptographic solution, Jacob discusses in detail the many scriptural uses of “666” as a foundation for providing the greater, spiritual meaning of what Scripture is trying to teach about this crucial piece of the puzzle.
    The goal of this book is not to name a specific person and declare him to be the Antichrist and the reader will find none. There are greater purposes at work here that have come as the result of Jacob’s many years of prayerful consideration and preaching where the person of the Antichrist is concerned.

    The first is the handling of Scripture. Why do some say the Antichrist must and only can be Islamic, while others categorically maintain he will be a ruler from Rome, while still others say he would have to be a Jew in order to successfully deceive the Jews? Jacob painstakingly employs the whole counsel of God’s Word to show that each of these positions provides a part of the answer, but by not taking into consideration the whole of God’s Word they are each falling short in providing a conclusive answer. Instead of these factors all being mutually exclusive as some might maintain, the scriptural truth is that many of these things are actually complementary to each other.

    One of the most fascinating sections in this book is devoted to Herod as a shadow of the Antichrist, someone who was ethnically Arab (he was an Idumean by birth), but embracing the Jewish faith so that he was accepted as a Jew, but equally accepted by the Gentiles because he was a Roman citizen. In the character of the final Antichrist to come, Herod was all things to all people, equally accepted as an Arab, a Jew and a Roman. This is one example of the many teachings which come as the result of Jacob showing a bigger picture through the proper handling of Scripture that does not overly emphasize a single figure or a just one aspect of his background.

    The second is a more pressing issue where deception of believers is potentially concerned. There are many who assert that there is no need for current believers to be able to identify the Antichrist because they will be removed—raptured away, before he comes onto the scene. Another critical teaching in Shadows of the Beast is the biblical foundation that the Rapture will not occur until the Antichrist is identified to the faithful church, much the same way as the Apostles never recognized Judas—the most important figure of the Antichrist in Scripture—until he was revealed to the Apostles at the Last Supper just prior to his formally coming out against Christ. One of the primary responsibilities of the Elect in the Last Days is being able to identify the final person of the Antichrist when Christ ultimately reveals him to us. This is not an exercise in knowledge so much as it is in the practical application of our faith in God’s Word and ways in the Last Days.

    This is not a book intended to warn the world about the Antichrist, but to first educate believers as to what Scripture and history through the prism of Scripture has been teaching all along that we might be prepared for the final revelation from Christ to come. Just as the spirit of antichrist and the many biblical and historical antichrists always have and always will successfully deceive the unsaved, all of them combined are a mere shadow of the power of deception that will be at work in the two Beasts of Revelation 13 to come. If it was impossible for them to see through the many false prophets, false teachers, and precursors to the Antichrist who are but mere shadows, it will be absolutely impossible for them to identify the final Beasts to come. It is only the faithful who adhere to the whole counsel of God’s Word whom Shadows of the Beast provides a first attempt to equip. Ultimately it is Christ who will reveal the truth to the faithful Elect, not Jacob nor any other earthly teacher.

    While there has never been a book on the Antichrist which has undertaken such a holistic scriptural approach to provide a foundation for understanding the Beasts, Shadows of the Beast is only that—a foundation. Jacob does not claim to provide an answer which, in reality, God has not yet provided; Jacob is only making a good-faith effort to provide the faithful with the scriptural foundation which will make us more acutely attentive to the final revelation to come through Christ to His faithful Bride the Church.”

    I would join in and declare that wonderful word which believers have been say…
    MARANATHA!

  400. John S Jan 25th 2013

    I believe that the topic has been exhausted and commentors are repeating themselves.
    May I finish with a hymn written by Charles Wesley.
    So sing aloud this wonderful song if you believe the words.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQeIGbKqiw8

    And be encouraged!

  401. Christian journalist Jan 25th 2013

    I say Amen to Pastor Keith, John S, and other brethren.

    As songs of inspiration have been given on this web site, I ask yourselves to be encouraged by this wonderful hymn which I have sung in the past.
    Please sing this hymn by looking at the following link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vROU_N-FYdY

    May the Lord bless you all.

  402. Christian journalist, i remember very well the Rev Arthur Blessed coming here to Northern Ireland in the 1970′s, where i reside. I have been living here for all of my 55 years (soon 56) I was not a Born again Christian then as i did not become Born again until 1980 at age 23. Very interesting to hear that you shared your testimony at meetings where there was both UDA and IRA members. Those were very dificult, dangerous days in the 70′s and onwards (much different now) but will leave the politics out of it :) Sorry to go of topic but just wanted to mention that and suffice to say that is is good that the guns and the every day bombs are silent now for the most part.

    Every blessing

  403. watchful Jan 25th 2013

    Amen Andrew and Randall, whether Jesus would shoot anybody is a very good question! He is the one we examine and keep our eyes fixed upon as our example. May the Lord bless His saints, all I can say is that when i see Jesus high and lifted up, it is such a blessing and helps me to see where I fall short. Father be merciful to me, a sinner.

    Well I guess the USA has been duly warned, it will be heart-breaking if I have to see the blood-shed of my dear neighbours to the south (I live in Canada). My first-born son’s father is American and he has inherited that all-American “can-do” attitude which is wonderful, although I anguish that he doesn’t yet believe and realize that Jesus “can-do” even better.

    There has been another exhortation and warning to the US at the Inaugural Prayer Breakfast, given by someone named Jonathan Cahn, and see at the end where he is carried along by the Holy Spirit, and it also just makes me wonder if God is showing that when America puts down the torch, who will pick it up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l1OmWhQaVsU

  404. Psalm 82: 2-4

    “How long will ye judge unjustly and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah”

    “Defend the poor and fatherless, do justice to the afflicted and needy, Deliver the poor and needy; rid them out of the hand of the wicked.”

  405. I will confirm that there is some hard days ahead. I posted on this not too long ago, but have been praying about it for many years. This is the post. God Bless

    http://randysfurco.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-lord-of-hosts-is-able.html

  406. DonaldN Jan 25th 2013

    I just peeked in to see if there was something worth discussing here.
    I am appalled at what I read.
    First of all, Andrew used my reply as a foundation of this discussion. That reply was to this effect:

    If God is doing a work against His church, because of the apostasy, then to fight against it would be fighting against God.
    Most of you all agree to some extent, except for those gun toting false Christians who just want to SHOOT EM ALL. (yes, Andrew, I did see that post)

    What I have seen now is a bunch of self righteous religious anti Americans who are glad that you won this discussion.

    There is no love here, except perhaps a love for your doctrine.

    James 5:19-20
    19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
    20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

    I have read here much condemnation against those who do not think like you. You did not desire to turn anyone from their misled doctrine, you wanted to prove yours is the right doctrine and condemn those who thought guns are OK. (even to the point of saying they are working for the antichrist.)

    You used this scripture:

    Luke 9:54-56
    54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
    56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

    Yet, by the comments I read, many of you would love to see God call down fire on the USA and torch the whole bunch.

    God loves the people of the USA equally with you and your nation.

    Jesus died for all of us.

    You condemn the USA for such things as:
    Abortion
    Pornography/promotion of sex
    Gun rights
    False Christianity
    False religions/new age etc.

    Is abortion legal in your nation?
    Is there freedom of sex in your nation?
    Are there religious cults in your nation?
    If God judges the United States for anything, He will also judge your nation if your nation is at all involved in the same sins.

    God is no respecter of persons.

    Andrew, are you proud of what your website has become? You have in no way defended your friends here in the USA.

    You may have victory in this discussion, but you really missed it in expressing love for others. You have shown love for only those who think like you do.

  407. Amen Randy

  408. Andrew Jan 25th 2013

    Nobody “won” or ‘lost’ this discussion. If they did, I certainly didn’t notice.

    But I know this: If Civil conflict starts in America, I will be so glad that we had this discussion. Sometimes “love” involves warning those you care for of a great danger. It is as simple as that. In that sense, I believe this conversation has been as “loving” as can be. “Tough love” maybe. But at least a warning of real danger has gone forth.

    Sorry if the ‘trumpet alarm’ was too loud for some. It can get that way. And people get heated. My apologies.

    Blessings,

    Andrew Strom.

  409. Pastor Keith, I read all your post and how wonderful you speak the words of our Lord!
    Some would say this conversation should not have even started. I would say this is a good practice in loving. If you are angered by what has been said I encourage you to ask yourself why. If you have been offended, been on the defensive, or deliberately lashed out at a comment it is time to do a heart check.
    For those who desire to be like Christ make every effort to encourage your brother and sister of the faith. It is time for us to become like the first church in our love and devotion to one another. It’s time for practice and practical application of the cross kind of love.
    I will not make anymore comments to this post. It has been an experience. Through this exercise I have been exposed to the hearts of many Christian and introduced and inspired by some that I would not have otherwise.
    This forum has been good for me.
    Thank you, to everyone that contributed.
    Peace be with you.
    With Love,
    Sheila
    “The greatest of these is love.”

  410. Roger (NZ) Jan 25th 2013

    Pastor Keith – I too have read JJ Prasch ‘Shadows of the beast’ – I believe it brings a very real balance, from scripture and from history, and an awareness of things to come.

    ***

    Andrew and Sheila, – As with other ‘deep’ discussions on relevant topics, I too have gained from sharing – even if only to reavaluate my understanding of where I am in Christ Jesus.

    David Pawson poses this as a test of where we are in Lord Jesus, where is ‘our treasure’..?

    Do we want to be with Lord Jesus, and are willing to stay on Earth..?
    Or, are we willing to be with Lord Jesus, but want to stay on Earth..?

    May His peace, presence, grace and mercy be with us all,
    In His love,
    Roger

  411. I followed this thread all the way through but for the most part i remained is silence :) It was what i felt to do but would like to say like Robert (NZ) i have gained from it.

    Every blessing